Here's Where It Gets Interesting

Georgia’s Governor knew his life was in danger when he made his ruling. Would he commute Leo’s sentence, or let him die by execution?. And just how far would the angry mob go to seek revenge for Mary’s death? The planning had already begun… and it wouldn’t take long for a deal to be made with the prison warden.

Join us for part six of this seven-episode series, The Vigilantes.

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Appeal after appeal, Leo Frank was running out of options. With a new lawyer joining his defense team – the same lawyer who earlier represented the man who testified against Leo – the tide began to turn. Witnesses were coming forward, a new explanation for the murder note comes to light, and the story is making national news. With only days remaining before the scheduled execution, would time be on his side?

Join us for part five of this seven-episode series, The Vigilantes.

Special Thank You to the American Jewish Archives in Cincinnati and the Kenan Research Center in Atlanta for their generous assistance in finding and sharing letters sent to Leo and Lucille Frank, his family, and to the Governors of Georgia, as well as the state legislature.

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The heat in the Atlanta courtroom was sweltering and unbearable, as the trial against Leo Frank began. A Black man was testifying against a white man, which was nearly unheard of in the Jim Crow south. And the evidence against this man was mounting… A suspect who was at the murder scene, and continued to lie to the police.

Join us for part four of this seven-episode series, The Vigilantes.

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s been 48 hours since Mary Phagan was last seen alive. It’s a media frenzy, and police are feeling the pressure to find the killer. 

There’s a new, sudden interest in the murder notes. Did the killer write them to throw off investigators? 

By the end of this episode, three men would become suspects. And despite dubious evidence and changing stories, one would soon be indicted for Mary’s murder. With a mob looking for vengeance, and sensational newspaper coverage, chances of a fair trial in Atlanta, Georgia were slim. The trial would begin July 28th, 1913, but this story is far from over. Join us for part three of this seven-episode series, The Vigilantes.

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It should have been a leisurely Saturday off work for 13-year-old Mary Phagan, who was looking forward to celebrating the Confederate Memorial Day holiday. It should have been an easy day for Leo Frank, too, who hoped to leave his job at the factory early to go to the local baseball game with his wife. It should have been a carefree day for 16-year old Grace Hicks, who was enjoying a rare day off, and waiting for her friend to join her at the parade.

It was anything but a beautiful, joyful, restful day. 

Mary Phagan would never make it to the parade. Grace would soon be faced with an unimaginable task. And Leo Frank? Why couldn't the police get in touch with him? What happened in the basement of the pencil factory at that grisly crime scene? And who wrote that strange note? Join us for part two of this seven-episode series, The Vigilantes.

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is at stake in the upcoming presidential election? From the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, to women’s healthcare, and the economy, many voters aren't excited about a presidential rematch. Some have voiced their opinion by voting “Uncommitted” in the primary, instead of for President Biden.

Our guest today views this election as a choice between stability, and the potential destruction of Democracy. 

She is the first female Vice President of the United States, and today Kamala Harris joins Sharon to give direct answers to some of the tough questions, while on her Reproductive Freedoms Tour. 

Special thanks to our guest, Vice President Kamala Harris, for joining us today. 

Host: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A shocking murder. A scene so brutal that the first people to find the victim couldn’t even tell what their skin color was. And a case that forever changed both the city, and the state’s legal system. 

It was April 1913, in Atlanta, Georgia, and the city would never be the same. You may wonder why this imperative and dramatic case is not taught in history class, or how the world could have forgotten such a horrific crime that continues to have an impact more than 100 years later. 

Join us for part one of this seven-episode series, and experience just how powerful of a motivator fear can be. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Writers: Amy Watkin, Sharon McMahon

Researched by: Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, Melanie Buck Parks 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s the ultimate idea worth spreading: Generosity of spirit. Sharon is joined by Chris Anderson, whom you may know as the “head of TED.” As the leader and curator of TED, Chris shares why he chose this moment in time to write his book, Infectious Generosity, referring to the sea of anger that we’re living in, and the role the Internet can play – for better or for worse. Chris suggests that we all ask ourselves this question: Am I a net giver, or a net taker? What does it mean to live with the virtue of generosity? And how does mindset impact our ability to live a more generous life?

Special thanks to our guest, Chris Anderson, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you ever wonder what Democracy could look like in America? Many voters are familiar with this scene: You walk into a voting booth, review the options, and feel as though you’re voting between “the lesser of two evils.” You might worry that voting third-party is wasting a vote, but you don’t feel represented by the main candidates. Sound familiar? If you’re like the majority of Americans, you probably find yourself frustrated with the two-party system and a historically unproductive Congress. What if it didn’t have to be that way? Sharon is joined by law professor and author Max Stearns, to hear about another option: a Parliamentary Democracy. What would this look like, and how might Americans benefit by reimagining Democracy? 

Special thanks to our guest, Max Stearns, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you ready to question what you know about America’s founding? Today’s guest, David Fleming, shares all about a delicious slice of history in his new book, “Who’s Your Founding Father?” We dive into the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence, a conspiracy theory, and possible plagiarism surrounding one of the most important documents in U.S. history. How do the ultimate frenemies, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, tie into this? Join us to find out. 

Special thanks to our guest, David Fleming, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Term limits, mental competency evaluations, and the looming 2024 presidential election. Join us for one of the most requested episodes yet, as Sharon sits down with presidential candidate, former governor and former U.S. ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley. The majority of Americans do not want a matchup of Biden Vs. Trump in the General Election. What kind of strategies will Nikki Haley bring to the table, to help bridge the divide between Democrats and Republicans, if she’s elected President? With such a low Congressional approval rating, Haley shares what she’d do to help legislators do their jobs, preserve Democracy, and shares how a Haley presidency would look different than a Trump presidency.

Special thanks to our guest, Nikki Haley, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Assistant: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In a time when people are working to better understand systems of oppression and address issues that can seem daunting, folks are left asking the question: What can I do to make an impact? Sharon is joined by speaker and #1 New York Times bestselling author, Ijeoma Oluo, for a conversation to set listeners on a path of how to do important work, right where you are. There is work that is accessible to all of us, and her new book, Be a Revolution, highlights practical and tangible ways to work for intersectional racial equity. Join us for both practical tools, and an encouraging call for action. 

Special thanks to our guest, Ijeoma Oluo, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’ve all gotten trapped in the social media & news loop: Checks Twitter, scrolls on Instagram, reads comments, watches the news, checks Twitter, reads comments, checks the news again… and the cycle continues. Today’s guest, international best-setting author Katherine May, invites us to join her on a journey or reawakening in her newest book, Enchantment. Explore the art of reconnecting with the world around you, and learn to see the humanity of others. Whether it’s a gorgeous sunset, a mossy rock, or your sourdough starter, wonder is all around us if we can practice mindfulness, engage our curiosity, and look for it.

Special thanks to our guest, Katherine May, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is it like to transition from one of the most powerful positions in the world, to that of an ordinary citizen? Sharon is joined by presidential historian and New York Times bestselling author, Jared Cohen, to share about what happens when presidents – at the pinnacle of their prestige and influence – leave office. What can we learn about human nature and building a legacy from these past political figures? Join us as we explore Jared’s new book, Life After Power, that confronts the ambiguous question of “what’s next” through the lenses of seven presidents, and how they found meaning in life beyond the White House.

Special thanks to our guest, Jared Cohen, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’ve heard it before: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But what did the nation’s Founders mean when they identified “the pursuit of happiness” as an unalienable right? And what role does moral philosophy play in understanding the virtues that accompany the pursuit of happiness? Today we’re joined by Jeffrey Rosen, President and CEO of the National Constitution Center, to explore these questions, as well as to dive deeper into the history and meaning of the pursuit of life-long virtue. Learn how six of the Framers and Founders – flaws and all – embody different virtues, and consider the importance of electing leaders who will be virtuous and uphold the principles of Democracy.

Special thanks to our guest, Jeffrey Rosen, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What makes a real hero? From Amelia Earhart, to Abraham Lincoln, to Jane Goodall, there are some names we all know – and with good reason. When today’s guest, author Brad Meltzer, became a father, his writing career took a turn. In a world of TikTok stars and YouTube influencers, he wanted a book series for children that set apart the character of true heroes, from those who are out for fame. Join us as we step inside the creative process of how Brad begins to write a children’s book, the collaboration with gifted illustrator, Christopher Eliopoulos, and how they choose the heroes they will bring to life next.

Special thanks to our guest, Brad Meltzer, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It was supposed to be a picturesque and luxurious sightseeing tour over Antarctica. One filled with wonder and awe, in a tour that had cultivated a reputation for giving passengers the “trip of a lifetime.” But what began as an adventurous flight near Mt. Erebus, the southernmost active volcano in the world, became one of New Zealand’s most catastrophic accidents. What really happened? And who was ultimately responsible? Meanwhile, President Carter had just lost the election to Ronald Regan, who announced the release of the hostages in Iran the same day he was inaugurated. Was this timing a coincidence, or did President Carter get a bad deal? Join us for the final episode of the series, Mayhem: The 1970s You Never Knew.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“You are now leaving Iranian air space!” It was a moment that dozens of hostages and their loved ones longed for with bated breath, for 444 days. Freedom. To be released, and returned home. The Iranian hostage crisis captured the attention of the world, but how did we get there? President Jimmy Carter was in Iran for a New Year’s celebration in 1978, and his infamous toast would have become a viral clip had it taken place today. Little did he know that days later, an Iranian newspaper article would set off months of cyclical rioting, protests, and ultimately the invasion of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, with 66 Americans being taken hostage.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A religious leader with a raging drug addiction who led his following to a tragic end. A President with the hope of finding peace between Israel and Egypt. And a politician who was pivotal to the early LGBTQ+ rights movement, and lost his life in the process. Join us as we explore the stories of three men in 1978 who all had specific visions of the world, and the reality of those visions coming to fruition. If you’ve ever wondered where the term “Don’t drink the Kool-Aid” came from, or you want some context for what is happening in the Middle East, you’re in the right place. 

Content Warning: This episode contains subject matter that is not suitable for children.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Did you know that Star Wars almost started a war in real life, over a sandcrawler model? Would the film have been so wildly successful if someone else had been cast in the role of Han Solo, such as – let’s say – Christopher Walken? How would a band today be received if their drug use was so integral to their music, that they considered thanking their dealer in the liner notes? And let’s take that iPhone from your pocket, and compare it to the speed of an Apple II computer in 1977, which was 3,000 times slower. Join us as we explore revolutionary cultural shifts in the late 70s, and how these phenomena have evolved in the last four decades.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A happenstance introduction to Charles Manson. Assassination attempts against President Ford– a man who was never elected to the vice presidency or presidency. And the kidnapping of college student and newspaper heiress, 19-year-old Patty Hearst, that rocked the nation. Following Nixon’s resignation and the end of the Vietnam war, the country was in freefall. When, and how, did the U.S. begin to mend its wounds from political scandal and years of a grueling war? And what role did an unconventional campaign and powerful grassroots efforts have, regarding a certain peanut farmer who would later become president?

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Draft dodging. When did the draft lottery begin for the war in Vietnam, and who among America’s youth was hit the hardest? It was an unwinnable war, and thousands of high school graduates and college students refused to comply. What sparked these explosive protests nationwide? What role was marijuana and heroin playing back in Vietnam? And how did two decades of the costly, divisive conflict finally come to an end?

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It was the worst attack on the US Capitol in modern American history. What was it like to be on Capitol Hill and be in the White House through that tumultuous time? Sharon is joined by Cassidy Hutchinson, former special assistant to President Donald Trump and his chief of staff, Mark Meadow, who was an integral witness in the January 6th hearings. Cassidy shares her personal experience in her book, Enough, and gives an insider perspective. When democracy is in jeopardy, and character is put to the test, our highest allegiance is to each other, to the country, and choosing principles over party. 

Special thanks to our guest, Cassidy Hutchinson, for joining us today. 

Host/ Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Cassidy Hutchinson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder 

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux  

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A cover up that cost Nixon's presidency, a pardon that cost Gerald R. Ford his election, and a friendship dating back to the 1940s. It was the first time a President had been impeached, and the only time in U.S. history that a President resigned from office. The betrayal of the public’s trust reverberated well beyond Nixon’s presidency in a time of economic turmoil, but what happened following Nixon’s departure from office? How did the new Ford administration attempt to gain control over the rising unemployment and double-digit inflation? Join us as we learn about how this confluence of events created economic instability, unhappiness, and impacted the mood of the country in 1974.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The right to privacy, a 22-year-old who went by the pseudonym “Jane Roe,” and one of the most famous court cases in United States history. Join us as we learn what happened leading up to Roe v. Wade, the fate of Norma McCorvey following the Supreme Court’s ruling, and how this piece of history echoes in the present day. That is not the only ghost of 1973 history that is still relevant, though. If you’re curious about how an oil embargo in the 70s impacts today’s gas prices and oil reserves, and you’d like to better understand a piece of Israel's history and how it ties into present-day events, you’re in the right place.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it mean to be on the right side of history? That was a question today’s guest, Adam Kinzinger, asked himself when he chose to serve on the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th attack on the United States Capitol. Kinzinger joins Sharon to discuss his experience serving on the committee to defend democracy, and the personal sacrifice tied to prioritizing principals over party. If members of Congress are willing to send men and women to war to sacrifice their lives for our country, why are so few willing to sacrifice their political careers to do what is right? 

Special thanks to our guest, Adam Kinzinger, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Adam Kinzinger

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Deep Throat, Operation Gemstone, two valiant reporters, and a secret 30 years in the making. Watergate was not a single scandal, but rather an avalanche of events and co-conspirators, all engaged in corruption to keep President Nixon in office. The stakes were so high that Nixon’s Special Security Advisor, G. Gordon Liddy, lived under fear of being assassinated, and the wife of Nixon’s Campaign Director & Attorney General was drugged and held captive in a hotel room to keep her silent. What was the “smoking gun” that led to the toppling of this enterprise? Was it the tapes Nixon secretly recorded, and the 18-minute gap, that ultimately pushed Nixon to be the first and only President to resign?

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“The week that changed the world.” Was it a chance encounter at the World Tennis Championship in 1971, “Panda diplomacy” between the U.S. and Communist China, or a break-in at the Democratic National Headquarters by a team of 5 burglars, that drastically altered the trajectory of world history? It was around this time that the Women’s Equity Action League also filed one of the farthest reaching Class Action lawsuits, leading to President Nixon signing the Education Act into law. Join us as we talk about the origins of the Watergate scandal, the landslide victory that kept Nixon in office, and the establishment of Title IX. 

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Secret Police, CIA operatives, The Pentagon Papers, and The Most Dangerous Man in America. There was a time in the not-so-distant past, when the nightly news changed the game in how Americans felt about the war in Vietnam, the first “television war.” What was more of a shock to some though, was the realization that the American public had been lied to for decades by the U.S. government, spanning four presidential administrations. How did this influence the Watergate scandal? And how did the lavish “gathering of the Century” in Iran, attended by Vice President Agnew, tie into future allegations of broad political corruption?

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to our new series, Mayhem: The 1970s You Never Knew. Over the next few weeks we’ll take a journey through the Decade of Defiance, with all its scandals and secrets. 

As the decade devolved into war at home and abroad, Apollo 13 flew high above earth with the hope of landing safely on the surface of the moon. But then: disaster struck, and time was on no one’s side. Meanwhile, thousands of miles below the Apollo 13 spacecraft, a nationwide uprising among college students ended in disaster at Kent State and Jackson State Universities. With special guest Apollo 13 astronaut, Fred Haise.

Writer, Host, and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Writers and Researchers: Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and Kari Anton

Production Coordinator: Andrea Champoux 

Thank you to the Kent State Shootings Oral History Project. Kent State University Libraries. Special Collections and Archives.

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Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes back close friend and CEO, Nicole Walters, to share all about her captivating memoir, Nothing Is Missing. The daughter of Ghanaian immigrants, Nicole writes about her experience growing up in America through the lens of a different kind of American dream, both in how she was raised, and by forging her own path as a TV personality, motivational speaker, and entrepreneur building a multi-million-dollar business. Nicole talks with humility about not having all the answers, granting grace to ourselves and others, and the learned skill of saying “I don’t know,” when you haven’t learned something yet. Through struggles, obstacles, and falling down only to get back up again, this conversation demonstrates how to show up for ourselves, and mindfully create our lives with confidence and boldness.

Special thanks to our guest, Nicole Walters, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Nicole Walters

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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Joining Sharon today is Mike Rothschild: journalist, author, and conspiracy theorist expert who dives deep into the history of conspiracy theories over the last two centuries. In his new book, Jewish Space Lasers: The Rothschilds and 200 Years of Conspiracy Theories, Mike Rothschild – who is of no relation to the Rothschilds family referred to in the book – shows how many conspiracy theories today are directly connected to the same antisemitic rhetoric, myths, and accusations reaching back decades. So how did these conspiracy theories originate? What do modern QAnon beliefs have to do with this? And why do the same tropes reemerge again and again?

Special thanks to our guest, Mike Rothschild, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Mike Rothschild

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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On today’s episode, Sharon welcomes NPR’s Steve Inskeep, who has written a number of books about history including his newest release, Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America. In a time when it’s common to cancel or cut ties with those we disagree with, what can we learn from Abraham Lincoln about how to disagree fundamentally, while maintaining the relationship? Even when at odds with a dear friend over the issue of slavery,  Lincoln wrote, “If for this you and I must differ, differ we must.” Does Democracy require us to agree to disagree? How can this be applied to the very divided America we see today, to hold the country together?

Special thanks to our guest, Steve Inskeep, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Steve Inskeep

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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Joining Sharon on the podcast today is well-known reporter Taylor Lorenz, who has written for The Washington Post, The New York Times, and The Atlantic, covering technology from the user perspective as an authority on Internet culture. In her new book, Extremely Online: The Untold Story of Fame, Influence, and Power on the Internet, Taylor takes a nostalgic trip down memory lane beginning with the rise of blogger culture, and weaving through the roads of social media and how the usage of technology has evolved. From home decor and mommy blogs, to the wild west of Friendster and MySpace, to the rise of YouTube and the uncurated aesthetic of TikTok, we see how the internet has evolved over the past decades, and how it is shaping culture today. 

Special thanks to our guest, Taylor Lorenz, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Taylor Lorenz

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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Joining Sharon today is comedian and author Maria Bamford, who shares the hometown of Duluth, Minnesota. Together, they discuss how Maria began her career as a comedian, and dive into her book: Sure, I'll Join Your Cult: A Memoir of Mental Illness and the Quest to Belong Anywhere. In this delightful conversation, they playfully banter about the irony of fundraising benefits, what makes one susceptible to cult-like mentality, and explore the cultural shift that has allowed society to speak more openly about mental health. Maria’s quirky and personal comedy style gives room to breathe, and to not be offended if something is not your style.

Special thanks to our guest, Maria Bamford, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Maria Bamford

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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Sharon welcomes back political historian, author, and professor Heather Cox Richardson, one of our most popular podcast guests of all time, who has a new book out: Democracy Awakening. Taking a different approach to this book from her previous work, Heather answers some of the big picture questions – once and for all – that readers have asked for years, relating directly to America’s current standing as a Democracy. When did the political parties change sides? Is America a Democracy, or a Constitutional Republic? How has America always managed to preserve Democracy as a global symbol, and how can we reclaim some of those Democratic principles? 

Special thanks to our guest, Heather Cox Richardson, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Heather Cox Richardson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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In today’s episode, Sharon’s guest is Dylan Penningroth, whose new book, Before the Movement: The Hidden History of Black Civil Rights, brings to light a new narrative of Black life in America. It’s a fascinating history of how African American communities used law, talked about law, and thought about law for almost two centuries, in ways that enabled the Civil Rights Movement before it even began. Pulling back the curtain, it explores how race actually works in American law, and does so by looking at local court cases that are not directly about race. When we zoom out, a new more complex story emerges of how law impacted Black Americans in ways that stretched far beyond segregation and race relations. 

Special thanks to our guest, Dylan Penningroth, for joining us today. 

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Dylan Penningroth

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

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Joining Sharon today is Jennifer Ackerman who has written a new book titled, What an Owl Knows, to discuss some new, rich scientific discoveries about these captivating and intriguing birds. Owls have often been a symbol of knowledge and wisdom, but what does an owl truly know? In a conversation both kids and adults can enjoy, Jennifer shines a light on the 260+ species of owls, to understand the depth and complexities of these enchanting creatures. Scientists are still discovering owl species due to their eerily quiet flight and camouflaged nature, but if you have ever wondered about their uniquely sophisticated communication sounds and family dynamics, or questioned how their brains work, this episode is for you. 

Special thanks to our guest, Jennifer Ackerman, for joining us today. 

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Jennifer Ackerman

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon is joined today by cultural historian and author Colin Dickey, to discuss America’s fascination with conspiracies, and fear of secret societies. In his new book, Under the Eye of Power, Colin walks through the history of how paranoia is woven into the very fabric of The United States from its inception, and how conspiratorial thinking and even the most irrational beliefs reach the mainstream. From the Salem Witch Trials to Freemasonry to the Satanic Panic, the Illuminati, and QAnon, Colin breaks down this cycle in history and explains why people of all walks of life subscribe to conspiracy theories, and what can be done to break the cycle.

Special thanks to our guest, Colin Dickey, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Colin Dickey

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon sits down with Dr. Devorah Heitner, author of Growing Up in Public: Coming of Age in a Digital Worldand Screenwise: Helping Kids Thrive (and Survive) in Their Digital World. At a time where every minor detail, fleeting thought, and potential misstep can be publicly documented and scrutinized online, how are parents, teenagers, and mentors expected to navigate growing up in the digital age? We all want the “right” answers, and have valid questions such as, when is it ok for a kid to have their own phone? How does one safely help their child navigate texting and social media? And where is the line between allowing someone to make mistakes, learn from them, and move forward, versus having controversial posts haunt them the rest of their lives? Let’s dive in together, with radical empathy, for kids who are growing up in a digital world.

Special thanks to our guest, Devorah Heitner, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Devorah Heitner

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode, Sharon is joined by author and professor Laurence Jurdem to discuss his book, The Rough Rider and the Professor, about the unusual thirty-five-year political friendship between President Theodore Roosevelt and Senator Henry Cabot Lodge. While Roosevelt famously “rose like a rocket,” in the political spotlight with his larger-than-life personality, it was arguably his machiavellian friend Cabot who lit the fuse, and used his vast social network to boost Roosevelt. In his research, Laurence Jurdem immersed himself in 2,500 letters of archives from the Massachusetts Historical Society to write the story of this unique Presidential friendship, and to remind us that close, meaningful friendships do not always have to perfectly align politically. We can disagree without being disagreeable. 

Special thanks to our guest, Laurence Jurdem, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Laurence Jurdem

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon’s guest today is Kai Bird, Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and author of American Prometheus, which is the biography of J. Robert Oppenheimer that the blockbuster Christopher Nolan film was based on. Join us while Kai shares his experience of what it was like to have his work turned into a historically accurate major motion picture, and how he conducted the research required to capture the life of Oppenheimer. If you are interested in learning more about the mid-Century, World War II, his wife Kitty, or what happened to them immediately after the war, you will not want to miss this episode. 

Special thanks to our guest, Kai Bird, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Kai Bird

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

American Democracy has faced some challenging times, living through a modern day political crisis. Today, Sharon is joined by Harvard professors of government, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt to dig into all things Democracy. In their new book, Tyranny of the Minority, they explore how democracies break down throughout history and find the striking pattern that political minorities often govern over political majorities. Factor in the unsettling truth that the Constitution – even with its brilliance and reverence – has flaws, which limit the power of majorities, and we’re left wondering: Why have we stopped working to reform and improve the Constitution over the last half century? What are other Democracies doing to fight Authoritarianism? And what is a “Constitutional Republic” in relation to a Democracy? 

Special thanks to our guests, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guests: Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, we’re discussing all things public schools: The good, the bad, and the controversial. Joining Sharon is Dr. Bettina Love, Professor at Teachers College, Columbia University who has a new book out: Punished for Dreaming. Between chronic school underfunding, pressure placed on standardized testing, the devaluing of educators, teacher burnout, and a list of ongoing systemic challenges, many agree that something needs to change in the school system. The word “reform” is bandied about, but what does “reform” actually mean? And how do school segregation issues – past and present – show up, and impact education for generations to come?

Special thanks to our guest, Dr. Bettina L. Love, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Dr. Bettina L. Love

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re joined today by returning guest, Jasmine Holmes, to dive into the state of Black history education in America, and to discuss her new book, Crowned with Glory: How Proclaiming the Truth of Black Dignity Has Shaped American History. Jasmine shares about Black abolitionists who fought for the dignity of their fellow mankind based on the principle that because people are created in God’s image, they have inherent dignity, worth, and human rights. When pockets of resistance throughout history are glossed over and forgotten about, and curricula are revised to be more palatable, how is one to broaden their perception of American history in a way that does not do it a disservice?

Special thanks to our guest, Jasmine Holmes, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Jasmine Holmes

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In today’s episode, Sharon is joined by Esau McCaulley for a powerful conversation about his new book, How Far to the Promised Land. In his memoir, he took the story of his family and showed the struggles of Black people in America intergenerationally. 

Esau shares how it’s vital to understand how the stories of our ancestors – though they might seem insignificant – impact and shape generations to come. In a country that highly values “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps,” and the underdog, Esau questions the narrative that we achieve entirely on our own, and asks why our society requires exceptionalism from Black people. 

Special thanks to our guest, Esau McCaulley, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Esau McCaulley

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode, Sharon welcomes back Danielle Coke Balfour, who you may know as founder and illustrator of “Oh Happy Dani.” Sharon chats with Dani about her new book, “A Heart on Fire: 100 Meditations on Loving Your Neighbors Well.” At a time when it’s easy to become overwhelmed with the 24-hour news cycle and information overload, Danielle pauses and shares that it’s important to, “let each day be the evidence of a heart on fire,” by living in alignment with your values. In her book, she helps reframe the daunting realities of daily life by identifying common themes, and focusing on tending to our own important work, in the season we’re in, to better serve the whole. 

Special thanks to our guest, Danielle Coke Balfour, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Danielle Coke Balfour

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, Sharon welcomes back comedian and writer Taylor Wolfe to discuss her heartwarming memoir, Birdie & Harlow - Life, Loss, and Loving My Dog So Much I Didn't Want Kids (Until I Did). You might know Taylor from following her online at The Daily Tay, where she’s known for her entertaining videos and impressions of influencers, along with characters we’re all too familiar with from everyday life. Together, they discuss the nuance of modern motherhood when everyone has an opinion, the need for laughter even among deep grief, and how everyone is their own kind of weird. If you have a pet you love dearly or if you’ve faced the challenges of navigating what a chosen family may look like – all with a dose of lighthearted humor – this is for you.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Taylor Wolfe

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon sits down with Suzanne Nossel, CEO of PEN America, to talk about some of the issues related to free expression and book banning. With more than 4,000 book bans at last count, this is an issue that has swept across the nation. Suzanne discusses what kind of book bans they see the most, and how veiled language about “protecting children” is used to remove books that contain narratives only a minority of people find uncomfortable. Books are more frequently labeled “pornographic” or “indecent" incorrectly, causing a chilling effect across classrooms, libraries, and resulting in some classic literature and health-related content to be removed from the shelves.

How do we as a society reconcile the framework and the value of the 1st Amendment in America, with restrictions on books and the censorship of diverse ideas? And what can the majority of parents do to fight for the freedom of information and expression in schools? 

Special thanks to our guest, Suzanne Nossel, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Suzanne Nossel

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon is joined by North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum to hear directly from the Republican Presidential candidate ahead of the presidential debate. In a time of cold wars, culture wars, and economic unknowns, Burgum makes the argument that it’s time for the federal government to refocus its priorities. Burgum also took the position that it’s time to “get away from the celebrity President and get back to the idea that the President is an operating job, and needs to focus on the job description.” Burgum and Sharon discuss how the Republican nominee will need to win over some political independents, who often fall into the category of the exhausted majority. Gov. Burgum explains why he believes his experience in both the public and private sectors make him the ideal candidate to do just that.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Governor Doug Burgum

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon connects with journalist and celebrity biographer, J. Randy Taraborrelli, to chat about his new book “Jackie: Public, Private, Secret.” In his book, he paints a portrait of the lesser known parts of the iconic life of Jackie Kennedy Onassis. We all know public details of her time as First Lady in the White House, and recall the historic imagery of her wearing a pink Chanel suit with the matching pink hat on the day President Kennedy was assassinated. But with only a few years spent in the White House, what fabric makes the full life of this beloved First Lady? This conversation brings to light the story of a woman’s total lived experience in a way that is surprising, complex, and distinctive. 

Special thanks to our guest, J. Randy Taraborrelli, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: J. Randy Taraborrelli

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, Sharon sits down with author, journalist, and educator, Samuel Freedman, to discuss a man who has arguably gotten too little credit in the Civil Rights Movement: former VP Hubert Humphrey. There would be no Civil Rights movement in the 1950s and 60s without the groundwork that was laid in the 1940s. The battles Humphrey faced overlap with many of the same battles being fought now: Against white supremacy, “America First” policies, and Christian Nationalism. 

What inspired a very “vanilla guy” to care so deeply about these issues in the early 1900s, when it was not politically popular? What planted the seeds of his deep interior life and shaped the value system he had since childhood? In his book, “Into the Bright Sunshine,” Freedman shares unknown stories of what influenced Humphrey as an adolescent, and makes the case that Humphrey’s impact in the Civil Rights movement was pivotal in American history.

Special thanks to our guest, Samuel Freedman, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Samuel G. Freedman

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon is joined by Matthew Desmond, Professor of Sociology at Princeton University and the founding director of the Eviction Lab. Together, they discuss his best-selling book, “Poverty, By America,” and take a hard look at poverty in one of the richest countries in the world, while reimagining the debate on poverty. We all know that poverty is an existing problem in the United States, but what does that actually mean? How is the “poverty line” calculated, and why is there profound suffering in such close proximity to significant wealth? 

Special thanks to our guest, Matthew Desmond, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Matthew Desmond

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you ever played alternative history and wondered how you’d survive being in steerage on the Titanic, or how you would have fared during The Black Death? Today, Sharon sits down with Cody Cassidy, author of “How to Survive History" to take a look at some of the most catastrophic events in world history. They discuss how past events might inform how to respond to future ones and how escape plans can be an interesting and fun way to learn about history. People often ask, “Is this the worst it has ever been?” especially following COVID, the political climate, and various natural disasters. Settle that idea in your mind, once and for all, by joining us in this entertaining and educational conversation.

Special thanks to our guest, Cody Cassidy, for joining us today.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Cody Cassidy

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Presidential Candidate Will Hurd joins Sharon to chat about engaging voters in primary elections to ensure stronger candidates in November. The country is ready to have thoughtful conversations about what issues matter to them in a way that unites, rather than divides. Whether the district was ruby red or a deep blue town, people share the same frustrations and goals. Everyone wants systems that operate fairly and efficiently, from the justice system to immigration. But how might our government address these issues in lasting, meaningful ways that represent what the majority of Americans truly want? Will Hurd shares what solutions have worked in the past, and how he plans to work with leaders from both sides of the aisle to shape the future.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Will Hurd

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon is joined by Hadley Vlahos, RN, who has written a bestselling book about her experiences working as a hospice nurse. Hadley walks us through the discomfort of death with great compassion and empathy while considering what it means to live well, and to die well. She explores commonalities in death spanning across a variety of faith backgrounds, many of which have no definitive scientific explanation. We’re encouraged to embrace the dignity in dying by allowing our loved ones to share their experiences in death. And while there is no one right way to die, we can gently hold space for our loved ones in the in-between.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Hadley Vlahos

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode, Sharon is joined by CIA military analyst, WWII expert, and debut author, Lena Andrews, to unveil the scale and scope of what women in uniform contributed during WWII. Over 350,000 American women served in uniform during the war, in every service branch, in every combat theater, and in nearly two-thirds of the available military occupations at the time. This ranged from critical support roles of flying planes across the country, drawing maps to help men get through Normandy, codebreaking, and building & maintaining the behind-the-scenes infrastructural work that made the heroics possible. If you loved our “How Women Won WWII” series, today’s episode will be a treat of untold history.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Lena Andrews

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon is joined by Olivia Campbell, author and journalist who marries the history of medicine in the Victorian era with stories of three audacious women who overcame profound sexism, societal stigmas, and a sea of obstacles to receive higher education. When diving into her book, “Women in White Coats: How the First Women Doctors Changed the World of Medicine,” we are reminded that medicine has not always been viewed in high regard, and once upon a time, “med-school” lasted mere months. Follow these tenacious trailblazers to see how they defied the odds and paved the way to revolutionize health care.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Olivia Campbell

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon sits down with author and historical researcher, Bill Shaffer, to learn untold stories of a Hamilton descendant in his gripping book, “The Scandalous Hamiltons: A Gilded Age Grifter, a Founding Father's Disgraced Descendant, and a Trial at the Dawn of Tabloid Journalism. Today, if an author pitched a book proposal with as many twists and turns as this true story holds, it would likely be considered too far-fetched to be believable. Learn how curiosity from a fountain in Riverside park led to a deluge of court records, newspaper articles, and this turn-of-the-Century scandal.

Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Bill Shaffer

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes law professor Stephen Vladeck to nerd out about all things The Supreme Court. Stephen dives into the elusive behind-the-scenes “shadow docket,” and how 99% of what the court does is in the shadows – without public hearings, and without explanation. With approval ratings of the The Supreme Court at a historic low, what can Congress and the average American citizen do to hold the court accountable, and foster transparency? 

Special thanks to our guest, Stephen Vladeck, for joining us today. 

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Stephen Vladeck

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes back author and friend, Natalie Franke. Natalie’s new book, “Gutsy” is all about how we develop the courage in our own lives to do what we need to do. When we treat failure as the scapegoat, we often ignore the fact that fear is truly the culprit for why we get stuck, or postpone handling even simple tasks. Learn what it means to live with bold, brave, and boundless courage.

Special thanks to our guest, Natalie Franke, for joining us today. You can preorder a copy of Gutsy here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Natalie Franke

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon has a conversation with Matson and Tawni Browning about their book, The Hate Next Door. Matt gets candid about his time working undercover in white supremacist groups and what it was like to balance his dueling realities: where the job ended and where his home life began. Matt and Tawni also talk about the type of person white supremacist hate groups target for recruitment and the types of messaging they rely on to spread their violent ideologies.

Special thanks to our guests, Matt and Tawni Browning, for joining us today. You can order a copy of The Hate Next Door here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Matson and Tawni Browning

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon is joined by author Amanda Montell to talk about all things cultish. There isn’t always a standard definition of a cult, but there are things to look for, and we’ve all fallen for cultish practices or groups before. Language is often used as a tool of influence, like thought-terminating cliches, mantra phrases that are used to shut down independent thinking or questioning. Cultish leaders also take advantage of people by relying on our confirmation biases. We may think we couldn’t be fooled into joining a cult, but human nature is full of mystic moments and irrationality; it’s inevitable that we’ve joined a few cults along the way.

Special thanks to our guest, Amanda Montell, for joining us today. You can order a copy of Cultish here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Amanda Montell

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes former Senator Russ Feingold to the show. Russ is a three-term senator from Wisconsin and his new book, The Constitution in Jeopardy, talks about Constitutional evolution; how the framers built in mechanisms to change it when necessary. One of those mechanisms is the Constitutional Convention–a convention that the United States has never held. What might a convention change, and what are the dangers of it? Could a convention gut the Constitution and threaten democracy? What would a productive and successful Constitutional Convention look like?

Special thanks to our guest, Russ Feingold, for joining us today. You can order a copy of The Constitution in Jeopardy here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Russ Feingold

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, we welcome a very special guest: Rainn Wilson. You may know him best as Dwight from The Office, or maybe you’ve listened to his podcast with author Reza Aslan, Metaphysical Milkshake. Rainn and Sharon discuss the majesty of Spirit Bears, travel, and starting a spiritual revolution as a way to help heal our worldwide, modern pandemics. They also get real with death, religion, and the temporary nature of materialism.

Special thanks to our guest, Rainn Wilson, for joining us today. You can order Soul Boom here and watch The Geography of Bliss here. ***Please note that Rainn Wilson joined us for the recording of this podcast episode prior to the SAG strike.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Rainn Wilson

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon connects with author David Treuer who writes about the sweeping history of Native Americans in his book, The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee. It’s a history that goes beyond what most Americans are taught about key events or standout figureheads. Native past and present doesn’t pivot solely around tragedy and suffering; and when we tell only those stories, it shapes how we think. David seeks to create a narrative of bounty; Native history may have a surplus of pain, but it also has a surplus of joy and culture.

Special thanks to our guest, David Treuer, for joining us today. You can order The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: David Treuer

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, journalist Carla Power talks with Sharon about radicalism. Her book, Home, Land, Security, seeks to define and clarify extremism; having radical ideas does not necessarily make a person a resort to political violence. So what, then, does? What are the roads that lead people into committing radically extreme acts, and what are the roads that lead them back out from a state of violence? What does it take to de-radicalize people inside terrorist groups?

Special thanks to our guest, Carla Power, for joining us today. You can order Home, Land, Security here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Carla Power

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon talks with author Victor Lukerson about the Tulsa Race Massacre. Victor’s new book, Built From the Fire, brings to light the atmosphere and events in Oklahoma that make up the 1921 riot–or as Victor calls it–the pogrom, or organized extermination of an ethnic group. Learn about the violence and destruction white Tulsa wrecked on the prosperous black community of Greenwood, the community's perseverance, and the effects that are still felt today, a century later.

Special thanks to our guest, Victor Luckerson for joining us today. You can order Built From the Fire here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Victor Luckerson

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon talks with author Kate Masur, whose book, Until Justice Be Done, shines a light on what we can consider to be the first Civil Rights Movement–the movement for free Black Americans to gain equality from our country’s inception through Reconstruction after the Civil War. We often think of the fight to gain rights as a movement that happened in the 1950s and 1960s, but even in the early 1800s, there was an organized effort to resist racist laws and policy.

Special thanks to our guest, Kate Masur, for joining us today. You can order Until Justice Be Done here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Kate Masur

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Disinterment and repatriation is important work, but it’s only just begun, and it’s not the only work that needs to be done to acknowledge and atone for the history of Indigenous boarding schools. The Federal Government has not yet provided a centralized place for survivors or descendants of survivors of Federal Indian boarding schools, or their families, to voluntarily detail their experiences in the boarding school system.

Which means that there are still generations within the Indigenous community who continue to carry the invisible burden of these schools. The “road to healing” has started, maybe, but it's the indigenous people themselves who have taken the most significant steps forward.

Note: We would like to issue a content warning for this episode. Some parts of this episode may not be suitable for younger audiences.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

By the 1960s and early 1970s, activist movements across the country had begun to call for better national policies to support minority groups and the government made attempts to some of the wrongs of the past. But it didn’t always lead to success. So let’s dive in, and talk about the gap between the government’s policy intentions for Native American communities and its not-so-effective execution.

Note: We would like to issue a content warning for this episode. Some parts of this episode may not be suitable for younger audiences.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, we are going to explore an explosive pendulum swing in the mindset of the American people, when the government basically told Native communities: “No more interventions. You’re on your own!” The ominous-sounding Termination Policy fundamentally changed the relationship between the Federal Government and Native Tribes, again, and its reverberations can be felt even today.

Note: We would like to issue a content warning for this episode. Some parts of this episode may not be suitable for younger audiences.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, we are going to explore the Native boarding school systems in Canada, and in our 49th and 50th states, Alaska and Hawaii. The US wasn’t the only nation setting up mandatory residential schools for Indigenous populations, and in the beginning, many of these programs mirrored those of the US with a focus to “civilize” Indigenous children. We’re not referring to merely hundreds of students who were taken from their families, but hundreds of thousands spanning decades. With many students unable to return home and schools operating “in loco parentis,”it would be years before the truth of these atrocities would come to light. 

Note: We would like to issue a content warning for this episode. Some parts of this episode may not be suitable for younger audiences.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 1880, Richard Pratt opened the Carlisle School’s Outing Program. Pratt framed the programs as an opportunity to give boarding school students real-world experience and cultivate practical skills they learned at school, but in reality, the Outing Programs were nothing more than indentured servitude. By the 1930s, most programs were so corrupt that they were discontinued. Were the programs nixed due to a sudden change of heart? No, it was the result of an independent research organization and their publication of the Meriam Report.

Note: We would like to issue a content warning for this episode. Some parts of this episode may not be suitable for younger audiences.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 1908, an anthropologist traveled to the Western states to examine an outbreak of tuberculosis and found that 20 percent–or one in every five–of the residents of Indian Country had contracted the disease. In an effort to contain it, authorities asked the anthropologist to trace the cause of the outbreak and he found it – in the Native American boarding schools. Educating native children was an enterprise that quickly turned lethal as epidemics and contagious illnesses swept through the schools. Sickness infected and killed scores of students.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As the idea that the best way to handle the “Indian Problem” in America was to civilize their youth took hold in the late 19th century, the amount of boarding schools grew rapidly. But the government couldn’t rely on Native tribes to send their children to schools willingly, so they had to accomplish it another way: by force. Attendance became mandatory, and children were rounded up and sent to live at boarding schools, sometimes hundreds of miles away. They were cut off from their homes, families, and culture… and forced assimilation began.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Richard Pratt’s boarding schools for Native American children didn’t just materialize out of thin air. The idea that it was the job of the government to try to assimilate Native Americans into European settler culture had been around since the first Europeans stepped foot onto North American soil. So today, let’s jump back in time and connect the dots from the Constitution to forced education.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to our new series, Taken: Native Boarding Schools in America where we dive into the complex history of the United States Government's intervention of Indigenous tribes and culture. We’re going to go beyond the Trail of Tears and into the federally mandated programs that took Native children from their homes and placed them in boarding schools. It’s a history of erasure, dominance, violence, and trauma–some of it so concealed that the Department of the Interior is still investigating it today.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Amy Watkin, Mandy Reid, and KariMarisa Anton

Thank you to our guest K. Tsiannina Lomawaima and some of the music in this episode was composed by indigenous composer R. Carlos Nakai.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Writer Ally Henny joins Sharon today to talk about Bruno. But in this context, Bruno–always around, but only talked about in hushed tones–is race. Ally and Sharon have a candid conversation about the pitfalls of Respectability Politics and how white people can do better when it comes to getting uncomfortable in conversations about race. Ally’s new book, I Won’t Shut Up: Finding Your Voice When the World Tries to Silence You, is a great place to start if you are looking to understand the ways in which racism persists in America today.

Special thanks to our guest, Ally Henny, for joining us today. You can preorder I Won’t Shut Up here!

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Ally Henny

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon talks with author of the book Break It Up: Secession, Division, and the Secret History of America's Imperfect Union, Richard Kreitner. Richard and Sharon talk about the theme of division throughout American history. We may say we are one nation, united, but there have always been ideas, events, and people who have challenged that notion of unity and union, even back at the very start of the nation’s founding.

Special thanks to our guest, Richard Kreitner, for joining us today. You can purchase Break It Up here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Richard Kreitner

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes guest Dr. Kerry Sautner, the chief learning officer at the National Constitution Center. Kerry and Sharon talk about civic education, and how it can be a building block for a great democracy–but just as important as learning from our past is learning how to communicate and collaborate in the present. Join us to learn more about the National Constitution Center, and the value of civic friendships and access to America’s full history.

Special thanks to our guest, Dr. Kerry Sautner, for joining us today.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Dr. Kerry Sautner

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon welcomes back David Rubenstein to talk about his new PBS series, Iconic America. The series takes a look at eight different American symbols, from Cowboys to the Hollywood sign. These recognizable pieces of America have surprising histories, and Sharon and David discuss how symbols evolve and take on new meaning over time.

Special thanks to our guest, David Rubenstein, for joining us today. Catch his new PBS series, Iconic America, streaming now. 

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: David Rubenstein

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sharon’s guest on today’s episode on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting is author Alexandra Robbins, the author of several New York Times bestsellers. Her newest book, The Teachers, goes behind the scenes to show readers what life is like for teachers in America. She follows three teachers through their trials and triumphs over the course of one school year. Learn about their challenges with being under-resourced and over-scrutinized while they try to make connections and safe learning environments in their classrooms.

Special thanks to our guest, Alexandra Robbins, for joining us today. Order your copy of The Teachers here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Alexandra Robbins

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Joining Sharon today is Colin Woodard, the director of the Nationhood Lab. Colin is an expert on the regional cultures that make up the United States, and while we tend to think of regional differences as disagreements about our political views, the cultural history goes much deeper than that. Colin has studied how these geographical regional divides pertain to gun violence in America, and his conclusions may surprise you.

Special thanks to our guest, Colin Woodard, for joining us today. Learn more about the Nationhood Lab through the Pell Center for International Relations and Public Policy at Salve Regina University.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Colin Woodard

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon talks with Jonathan Eig, the author of the new Martin Luther King Jr. biography, King: A Life. Eig spent six full years researching and writing about King’s life. He shares countless moments and pieces of King’s story that get left out of the general image we have of the I Have a Dream preacher. He also argues that, through honoring the Civil Rights activist with a holiday and through flashy quotes and merch like mugs and tees, we lose sight of the real King and his radicalism.

Special thanks to our guest, Jonathan Eig, for joining us today. Find King: A Life here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Jonathan Eig

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon talks with Yale professors and two of the authors behind Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most. Initially a class in Yale’s humanities program, Life Worth Living sought to find answers to the age-old philosophical question: what’s the meaning of life? The book brings the classroom lessons to a new audience, and Sharon talks to Volf and McAnnally-Linz about how to go beyond TikTok and Cheetos and find true fulfillment.

Special thanks to our guests, Miroslav Volf and Ryan McAnnally-Linz, for joining us today. Find Life Worth Living here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guests: Miroslav Volf and Ryan McAnnally-Linz

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To kick off a new season of guest interviews, Sharon sits down with the amazing Nedra Tawwab: bestselling author, relationship therapist, and boundaries expert. Nedra and Sharon talk about some of the key ideas Nedra shares in her latest book, Drama Free, and about how to navigate unhealthy family dynamics and relationships and move them into a healthier space. The change starts with us.

Special thanks to our guest, Nedra Tawwab for joining us today. Find Drama Free here.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Guest: Nedra Tawwab

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you celebrate National Beer Day on April 7th every year? Did you even know that the U.S. has a National Beer Day? We do! And it’s all thanks to our 32nd president, Franklin D. Roosevelt and his signing of the Cullen-Harrison Act. Celebrated across the country in 1933, the act was just one small step on the path to the ratification of the 21st Amendment and the final nail in the coffin for Prohibition.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

At its beginning, prohibition was spearheaded by outspoken women. Women who saw a need for social change and then set up the scaffolding to build, what they thought, would be a better America. So maybe it won’t be a surprise to hear that the repeal of Prohibition began in pretty much the same way. By the late 1920s, it was clear to many that Prohibition was a big flop. It was especially clear to one of its initial supporters who realized it was time to change her mind.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the middle of the 1920s, when Prohibition was at its peak, leaders and law enforcement could go one of two ways: they could crack down on Volstead Act violators… or they could look the other way. Today, we’ll meet the first two women governors in the nation’s history–and a couple of lawmen–and learn how they handled their duties during Prohibition. 

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In its fight for a dry, anti-alcohol nation, the Anti-Saloon League recruited the Ku Klux Klan to join its mission to make Prohibition the law of the land. Klan members themselves weren’t specifically pro-Temperance, but they were happy to use dry laws as a way to target and perpetrate violence against Black Americans, immigrants, Jews, and Catholics. But the power of the Klan was beginning to fade…

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How did one of the most popular movies in the country–a blockbuster of epic proportions–fuel the rebirth of the Ku Klux Klan? And how, in just a few short years, did the Klan grow from small pockets of state chapters into a national social organization with a membership in the millions? The KKK and the prohibitionists of the 1920s worked hand-in-hand to turn America into a dry, white, Protestant-ruled nation. As booze dried up in towns across the nation, white supremacy began to rise.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode of our series on Prohibition, we talk about two things that go hand in hand with the enforcement of dry laws: crime and cocktails. The spread of both was a direct consequence of the 18th amendment as mobsters ruled the violent industry of bootlegging and the rough liquor they sold was made more palatable with mixers. 

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, it’s a battle between the lawman and the barkeep; we’re going to explore the New York jazz and speakeasy scene. Along the way, we’ll meet a few people who embodied that old adage: sometimes appearances can be deceiving. And, of course, if there’s anywhere in time and place to reinvent yourself, it’s New York City in the 1920s.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

By 1920, America was officially a dry country. In theory. In practice, the law came with enough loopholes that opportunists found plenty of ways to make, trade, sell, and guzzle vast quantities of alcohol. Some turned to religion and some walked into a pharmacy with a doctor’s note. Still others knew how to rig the system so well that they made their fortunes and even got away with murder.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As the country went dry at the start of 1920, Americans were ready for a new leader. A stand-up guy, they thought, someone who reflects our morals–a man of the people. The elected Warren Harding, a handsome Ohioan who prided himself on his all-American principles. But behind closed doors, Warren Harding, 29th President of the United States, hid a plethora of dark secrets.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, we’re going to meet the most powerful woman in America during the Prohibition era. Mabel Walker Willebrandt was the Assistant Attorney General and it was her job to enforce the 18th amendment and prosecute those who flouted the new laws of Prohibition. With a boss that didn’t think she’d succeed and a lazy department who didn’t want to work for a woman, Mabel went after some of the most notorious names in bootlegging… and won.

Hosted by: Sharon McMahon

Executive Producer: Heather Jackson

Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder

Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback, Amy Watkin, and Mandy Reid

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.