So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

In late 2013, some of us at FIRE started noticing a change on college campuses. Students, who were previously the strongest constituency for free speech on campus, were turning against free speech. They began appealing to administrators more frequently for protection from different speakers and using the language of trauma and safety to justify censorship.

What changed? Neil Howe may have an answer. He is a historian, economist, and demographer who speaks frequently on generational change. His most recent book, “The Fourth Turning is Here,” was published last year. Howe argues that history has seasonal rhythms of growth, maturation, entropy, and rebirth and that different generations take on different attributes reflecting their place in the cycle.

Joining Howe and host Nico Perrino for the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff, co-author of “The Canceling of the American Mind."

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

6:10 Neil’s intent with his book, “Generations”

13:12 Pattern in American history

17:08 The nomad archetype

25:00 Covid and the younger generation

27:28 Do people shape events?

35:35 Gen-Xers and Millennials

41:45 The Fourth Turning

50:24 William James’ “The Moral Equivalent of War”

57:08 Are Gen-Z actually Millennials?

58:10 Dominant generations

01:06:40 How do generational cycles impact civil liberties?

01:10:57 Summary of Millennials

01:18:15 Peaceful periods lead to greater inequality 

1:19:16 Outro

Show Notes 

Neil Howe’s Substack, “Demography Unplugged”

Greg Lukianoff’s Substack, “The Eternally Radical Idea”

“I have never seen a Supreme Court term that is as consequential as this one is going to be,” said FIRE Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, previewing this term’s First Amendment cases.

On today’s show, we analyze the oral arguments in four of those cases: NRA v. Vullo, Murthy v. Missouri (formerly Missouri v. Biden), Moody v. NetChoice, LLC, and NetChoice, LLC, v. Paxton.

We also discuss the court’s decision in two cases involving government officials blocking their critics on social media.

Joining the show are Corn-Revere, FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London, and FIRE Director of Public Advocacy Aaron Terr.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

3:29 NRA v. Vullo

26:05 Murthy v. Missouri

50:41 Netchoice cases

1:11:26 Lindke v. Freed and O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier 

1:21:24 Outro

Show Notes 

NRA v. Vullo oral argument transcript

Bantam Books, Inc. et. al v Sullivan et al. (1963)

Murthy v. Missouri oral argument transcript

Moody v. NetChoice, LLC oral argument transcript

NetChoice, LLC v. Paxton oral argument transcript

Lindke v. Freed and O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier decisions 

‘So to Speak’ on Substack

There is a recurring debate in the free speech community regarding whether money is speech. 

Bitcoin-focused entrepreneur, writer, and philosopher Robert Breedlove joins us today to help resolve the debate. Describing money as “the language of human action,” Robert makes the case that money, like the cryptocurrency Bitcoin, is information and should be free from government regulation and manipulation. During this longer-than-usual episode, Robert and Nico discuss everything from Keynesian economics and 3D-printed firearms to the Chinese Communist Party. 

Robert is the host of the popular podcast, “The ‘What is Money?’ Show,” which dives into the nature of money by asking guests one simple question: What is money? In 2020, he co-authored the book, “Thank God for Bitcoin: The Creation, Corruption and Redemption of Money.”

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

3:56 Robert’s background 

19:21 What is Austrian economics? 

24:23 Is money speech? 

44:48 Can money express irrational things? 

51:59 Is access to perfect information always a good thing?

1:05:17 Bitcoin and anonymity

1:18:14 Prediction markets 

1:31:49 Is code speech?

1:39:59 Is economic freedom more fundamental than freedom of speech?

1:49:13 Regulating bitcoin

1:55:16 Bitcoin ETFs

1:57:03 Rapid-fire Bitcoin questions

2:03:15 Does more access to information make the world a better place? 

2:06:53 Outro 

Show Notes 

“The ‘What is Money?’ Show”

“The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G Edward Griffin

“The Bitcoin Standard” by Saifedean Ammous

“The Use of Knowledge in Society” by Friedrich Hayek

“The Logic of Scientific Discovery” by Karl Popper

“Areopagitica” by John Milton

On today’s episode, we discuss Alexei Navalny’s death, Vladimir Putin, censorship in Russia, and Samizdat Online, an anti-censorship platform that grants users living under authoritarian regimes access to news and other censored content. Yevgeny “Genia” Simkin is the co-founder of Samizdat Online and Stanislav “Stas” Kucher is its chief content officer.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction 

2:25 Alexei Navalny 

8:53 The state of Russian opposition

20:48 The origins of Samizdat Online

28:17 How does Samizdat Online circumvent censorship? 

35:16 Could Yevgeny Prigozhin have overthrown Putin?

41:03 The progression of Putin’s regime 

58:08 How can people help? 

59:56 Outro

Show notes

Statement by Russian prison service on Alexei Navalny’s death

The Anti-Corruption Foundation (nonprofit established by Alexei Navalny)

Samizdat Online

“Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible” by Peter Pomerantsev

Transcript

Past related episodes

Ep. 108: A history of (dis)information wars in the Soviet Union and beyond

Ep. 156: What Russians don’t know about the war in Ukraine

Ep. 157: Former BBC bureau chief Konstantin Eggert and what you need to know about censorship in Russia

On today’s free speech news roundup, we discuss the recent NetChoice oral argument, Taylor Swift, doxxing, October 7 fallout on campus, and Satan in Iowa. 

Joining us on the show are Alex Morey, FIRE director of Campus Rights Advocacy; Aaron Terr, director of Public Advocacy; and Ronnie London, our general counsel.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

0:44 NetChoice oral arguments

19:39 Taylor Swift cease and desist letter 

29:20 Publishing unlawfully obtained information 

39:28 Harvard and doxxing 

47:44 Princeton no contact orders 

55:52 Columbia law denies recognition to Law Students Against Antisemitism 

1:02:38 Columbia adopts Kalven Report

1:06:06 Indiana University art exhibit canceled, professor suspended

1:14:55 Satan in Iowa

1:21:59 Outro

Show Notes 

“So to Speak” 2023-24 Supreme Court Preview (contains discussion of NetChoice cases)

Correspondence between Taylor Swift and Jack Sweeney’s attorneys 

Bartnicki v. Vopper (2001)

Princeton no contact order 

Columbia university grants recognition to Law Students Against Antisemitism

IHRA definition of anti-Semitism

List of universities that have adopted the Kalven Report

Indiana University art exhibit story

Indiana University professor suspended for improper reservation 

Iowa Satanism bill

Shurtleff v. Boston (2022)

“So to Speak”: Substack

Transcript

J Hopkins is an American playwright, novelist, and political satirist. He moved to Germany in 2004. He publishes a self-titled blog on Substack and is the editor of Consent Factory Publishing. 

CJ’s most recent book, “The Rise of the New Normal Reich,” draws a parallel between Nazi Germany and the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In August 2022, it was banned on Amazon in Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands. In the months that followed, CJ was charged by German authorities with violating a section of the German penal code that prohibits “disseminating information, the intention of which is to further the aims of a former National-Socialist organization [the Nazis].” He was recently acquitted, but the prosecutor chose to appeal the decision. 

In the coming months, CJ will stand trial — again — for a crime he claims he didn’t commit and for which he has already been acquitted.

**We are launching on Substack this week! Nothing will change for our listeners. It’s just another way to support the podcast and FIRE. Premium subscribers will receive a FIRE membership and access to our new monthly “Members Only” Zoom chats, where we will discuss free speech news and happenings at FIRE. Members will also be able to ask Nico and other FIRE staffers questions.**

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

2:58 Who is CJ Hopkins?

9:35 CJ moves to Germany

15:02 CJ’s work since 2004

18:23 Berlin in 2020

27:18 “The Rise of the New Normal Reich”

34:01 CJ’s book banned in Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands

37:05 German investigation

47:26 German sensitivities to Nazism 

50:17 Why didn’t CJ just pay the fine? 

54:03 CJ goes to trial

1:03:29 Double-jeopardy / prosecutorial appeal

1:08:49 Does CJ have regrets?

1:12:50 Conclusion

Show Notes 

Atlantic profile by Jamie Kirchick 

“Berlin Diary” by William L. Shirer 

“The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William L. Shirer

“The Rise of the New Normal Reich” by CJ Hopkins

Consent Factory 

“The Verdict” by CJ Hopkins, a Substack article about the conclusion of his first trial

“The Rise of the New Normal Reich: Consent Factory Essays, Vol. III, banned in Germany, Austria, and The Netherlands!” by CJ Hopkins, a Substack article about his book being banned on Amazon

Transcript

Michael Malice is a self-described “anarchist without adjectives” and is the author of several books, including most recently “The White Pill: A Tale of Good and Evil.” He is also the host of the podcast, “YOUR WELCOME,” and the subject of the biographical comic book, “Ego & Hubris: The Michael Malice Story.”

Michael joins us today to explain why he hates the term “free speech,” and gives his thoughts on McCarthyism, anarchism, Twitter, and more.  

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

0:46 Who is Michael Malice?

6:45 What is an anarchist without adjectives?

7:26 The definition of anarchism/prominent anarchists 

8:01 How do we have free speech in an anarchist society?

16:54 The McCarthy Era

20:38 Students for Justice in Palestine

24:57 Should we advocate for a culture of free speech?

30:44 “Hitman” 

34:01 What is the core right under an anarchist system?

36:26 Elon, Twitter, and free speech

44:38 Emma Goldman and McCarthyism

55:27 Cancel culture  

1:01:37 From Emma Goldman to Solzhenitsyn

1:05:31 What is it like to live under an authoritarian regime?

1:12:23 The war in Ukraine

1:15:24 Outro

Show Notes 

“Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il” by Michael Malice 

“Hitman: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors” by Rex Feral (pseud.)

“Khrushchev's Secret Speech” (Encyclopedia Britannica entry)

“My Disillusionment in Russia” by Emma Goldman

“Schenck v United States” (1919)

“The Anarchist Handbook” by Michael Malice

“The Gulag Archipelago” by Alexandr Solzhenitsyn  

“The New Right: A Journey to the Fringe of American Politics” by Michael Malice

Episode Transcript

Jeff Kosseff is an associate professor of cybersecurity law in the United States Naval Academy’s Cyber Science Department. He is the author of four books including his most recent, “Liar in a Crowded Theater: Freedom of Speech in a World of Misinformation.” He has also written books about anonymous speech and Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

2:30 Jeff’s focus on the First Amendment 

4:27 What is Section 230?

9:30 “Liar in a Crowded Theater”

16:27 What does the First Amendment say about lies?

19:35 What speech isn’t protected? 

21:27 The Eminem case 

27:33 The Dominion lawsuit 

38:44 “The United States of Anonymous”

46:39 The impact of age verification laws 

49:43 “The Twenty-Six Words that Created the Internet”

58:40 What’s next for Jeff? 

1:01:35 Outro 

Show Notes 

Podcast Transcript 

Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (2011)

FIRE’s guide to Section 230

Nikki Haley on social media anonymity

Schenck v. United States (1917)

“The Twenty-Six Words That Created the Internet” by Jeff Kosseff

NBC News: “Judge allows lawsuit against Snap from relatives of dead children to move forward”

“The United States of Anonymous: How the First Amendment Shaped Online Speech” by Jeff Kosseff

United States v. Alvarez (2012)

Transcript

Bill Courtney is an American football coach, entrepreneur, author, and the subject of the academy award winning 2011 documentary “Undefeated,” which tells the story of Courtney leading a high school football team in an economically depressed area of Memphis, Tenn. to the playoffs.

Courtney is the host of the An Army of Normal Folks podcast, in which he shares stories of “ordinary people doing extraordinary things in and around their communities.” His book “Against the Grain: A Coach's Wisdom on Character, Faith, Family, and Love” was released in 2014.

In this episode, we discuss coaching, the surprise success of “Undefeated,” and how talking across lines of difference can heal a polarized America.

Chapters:

0:00 Introduction

2:25 Courtney’s background

5:41 The influence of coaches

16:50 How Courtney ended up at Manassas High School

18:50 Coaching in difficult environments

24:30 Bridging divides

30:12 Forgiveness and grace

35:57 Daryl Davis

42:45 The “death spiral” of division and polarization

53:15 What happened to Manassas after Courtney left?

54:00 How did the filmmakers find Manassas?

59:21 Was the documentary good for the school and the kids?

Show Transcript

We’re joined today by Elizabeth Nolan Brown, Robert Corn-Revere, and Ronnie London to discuss the history and verdict of the Backpage trial. 

Backpage.com was an online classified advertising service founded in 2004. As a chief competitor to Craigslist, Backpage allowed users to post ads to categories such as personals, automotive, rentals, jobs and — most notably — adult services. In 2018, the website domain was seized by the FBI and its executives were prosecuted under federal prostitution and money laundering statutes. The trial concluded this year, resulting in the acquittal and convictions of several key executives. 

Some First Amendment advocates are concerned that the Backpage case represents a “slippery slope” for the prosecution of protected speech and the rights of websites that host user-generated content.

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason Magazine, where she has written about the Backpage case in detail. 

Robert Corn-Revere is FIRE’s chief counsel and a frequent guest of the show. Prior to joining FIRE, he represented Backpage in private practice.

Ronnie London is FIRE’s general counsel and another frequent guest of the show. He also represented Backpage when he was in private practice prior to joining FIRE.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction 

06:55 The origins of Backpage 

10:40 The significance of classified ads 

14:52 Are escort ads protected? 

19:07 Federal memos indicating Backpage fought child sex trafficking

23:19 Backpage content moderation

34:44 Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act

42:59 “De-banking” and NRA v. Vullo

52:24 The verdict 

1:00:34 Could these convictions be overturned? 

1:02:49 Outro

Show notes 

Backpage.com url

2018 Backpage indictment

Elizabeth Nolan Brown’s 2018 Backpage profile

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act

NRA v. Vullo

The Travel Act

Nico and FIRE President & CEO Greg Lukianoff appeared on an X Space to discuss the fallout from the recent congressional hearing on anti-Semitism involving Harvard President Claudine Gay, MIT President Sally Kornbluth, and former Penn President Liz Magill, who resigned last week following backlash over her testimony.

Timestamps

0:00- Introduction 

1:53 - History of FIRE

5:40 - MIT/Harvard/Penn presidents’ testimony 

11:35 - How speech codes are abused and conflict over the definition of genocide 

14:05 - Penn “water buffalo” incident 

16:20 - Will universities take the wrong lesson from these hearings?

21:25 - Double standards on campus 

23:41 - Standards for hostile environment harassment, Title VI

26:43 - Is there a university that is currently handling the situation well?

31:19 - Institutional neutrality 

38:29 - Guidance for donors  

41:51 - The mission of the university

47:35 - College admissions and political litmus tests 

51:20 - Faculty viewpoint diversity 

57:17 - The path forward 

Show notes

Show Transcript

The Canceling of the American Mind

Congressional hearing

FIRE’s College Free Speech Rankings

Kalven Report

“Mighty Ira”

Richard Berthold (“anyone who can blow up the pentagon has my vote”)

Student arrested for true threats at Cornell

Skokie case (neo Nazi protest in Illinois) 

The Eternally Radical Idea (Greg’s Substack)

 Penn “water buffalo” case

We’re joined by First Amendment attorney Marc Randazza and British journalist Brendan O’Neill to discuss the state of free speech in the United States and Europe. 

Randazza is a First Amendment attorney and the managing partner at Randazza Legal Group. He has represented controversial figures throughout his career, including Alex Jones, Mike Cernovich, Chuck Johnson, and founder of the neo-nazi website the Daily Stormer, Andrew Anglin.

O’Neill is a British author and journalist who served as editor of Spiked from 2007 to September 2021 and is currently its chief political writer. His book, “Heretic’s Manifesto,” was released in June. He last appeared on the podcast on October 20, 2016.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

6:35 Do lawyers want to defend their enemies any more?

13:00 The oldest form of intolerance 

17:19 Israel/Hamas and double standards 

32:28 Hate speech laws in Ireland 

51:35 Censorship from internet intermediaries

52:33 Debanking and corporate censorship

55:36 PruneYard case 

1:01:44 Social media and the internet 

1:05:18 The Digital Services Act

Show Notes

Show Transcript

Brendan O’Neill at Oxford Union 

EU Digital Services Act

Proposed Irish hate speech bill

PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins (1980) 

The FIRE team gets together to discuss the October 7 attacks in Israel and the resulting censorship on college campuses in the United States. 

FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff, Director of Campus Rights Advocacy Alex Morey, and General Counsel Ronnie London join host Nico Perrino for the conversation.

** We will conduct a listener survey starting Monday, Nov. 13. “So to Speak” listeners who subscribe to the show’s email list will receive an email with a link to the survey. If you are not an email subscriber, you can subscribe at the bottom of sotospeakpodcast.com or by subscribing to the general FIRE email list at thefire.org and noting that you would also like to subscribe to the “So to Speak” list. We appreciate your feedback: It will help us improve the show!

Timestamps

5:13 - October 7 attacks on Israel 

6:04  - Greg’s initial thoughts 

14:58 - Alex’s initial thoughts

20:29 - Protected vs. unprotected expression 

28:11 - Statements from donors, students and faculty; double standards

40:49 - Institutional neutrality and the Kalven Report

51:01 - Combating Anti-Semitism, the Daryl Davis example 

54:46 - Students for Justice in Palestine 

1:01:48 - Tearing down posters 

Show Notes

Harvard student group letter (The public-facing Google Doc that originally hosted the letter was deleted.) 

Bill Ackman letter to Harvard

The Kalven Report

Daryl Davis 

FIRE Letter to University of Florida President Ben Sasse re: Students for Justice in Palestine (after recording this episode, Brandeis University derecognized its campus chapter of SJP. Here is FIRE’s letter to Brandeis).

Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, and Marco Rubio call to revoke student visas 

Trump Truth Social post calls for the expulsion of students who support Hamas

The Supreme Court handed down some big First Amendment victories last term. What lies ahead for the Court in the upcoming term? FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London join the show to discuss important First Amendment cases that will be heard during the Court’s 2023-24 session.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Introduction

1:47 - Murthy v. Missouri (government jawboning)

14:40 - NRA v. Vullo (government jawboning)

25:49 - NetChoice cases (social media regulation) 

46:39 - Social media blocking cases

56:15 - Vidal v. Elster (trademark registration)

1:05:17 - Gonzalez v. Trevino (First Amendment retaliation)

Show Transcript:

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-2023-24-supreme-court-preview

Cases Discussed:

Murthy v. Missouri (government jawboning) 

NetChoice, LLC v. Paxton (social media regulation)

Moody v. NetChoice, LLC (social media regulation)

O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier (social media blocking)

Lindke v. Freed (social media blocking) 

Vidal v. Elster (trademark registration)

Gonzalez v. Trevino (First Amendment retaliation)

Nat’l. Rifle Ass’n. of Am. v. Vullo (government jawboning)

President, CEO, and general counsel of the Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, joins us for a discussion on freedom of speech and religious liberty. ADF has played various roles in 74 U.S. Supreme Court victories and since 2011, has won cases before the Court 15 times. 

According to its website, “ADF is the world's largest legal organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of life.”

ADF has litigated many high profile and controversial free speech cases, including the recent Supreme Court case involving a web designer who didn’t want to be compelled to design websites for same-sex weddings. Before that, ADF litigated the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case, which involved a cake designer who similarly didn’t want to provide his services for same-sex weddings on religious grounds.

After the initial conversation was recorded, The Washington Post and The New Yorker released articles critical of ADF. Nico and Kristen recorded an additional, brief conversation to address these articles. That is included at the end of the podcast. 

Transcript:

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-are-cakes-speech-alliance-defending-freedoms-kristen

Timestamps:

0:43 - Introduction

6:16 - Kristen’s path to ADF

12:54 - ADF’s international team

14:20 - Pavi Rasanen controversy

19:24 - What does it mean to be a ministry?/blasphemy laws

22:56 - ADF’s Supreme Court cases 

26:58 - 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis 

28:56 - Public accommodation laws/Masterpiece Cakeshop

40:40 - Pre-enforcement challenges

42:50 - Facial challenges

47:32 - Test cases or fake cases?

49:44 - Yale incident

57:50 - Other campus shoutdowns

1:00:08 - L.M. v. Town of Middleborough 

1:14:27 - Kristen addresses WaPo article

1:15:38 - Kristen addresses New Yorker article 

Related Articles/Podcasts:

“Inside the tactics that won Christian vendors the right to reject gay weddings,” Jon Swaine and Beth Reinhard (The Washington Post)

“Are ADF’s Cases ‘Made Up’?” Lathan Watts (ADF, response to The Washington Post)

“The next targets for the group that overturned Roe,” David D. Kirkpatrick (The New Yorker)

FIRE’s response to Kristen Waggoner Yale incident 

FIRE’s response to Anne Coulter Cornell incident

FIRE’s response to Ilya Shapiro Georgetown incident

FIRE’s response to Ian Haworth UAlbany incident

“The Imperfect Plaintiffs” (“More Perfect” podcast with Julia Longoria)

Cases Discussed:

Dubash v. City of Houston (Animal rights activists lawsuit, 2023)

Paivi Rasanen (Finnish lawmaker charged with incitement against gay people)

303 Creative LLC v. Elenis (2022) 

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2017) 

Uzuebgunam v. Preczewski (2021) 

West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) 

Wooley v. Maynard (1997) 

Plessy v. Ferguson (1986) 

L.M. v. Town of Middleborough (2023)

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Writer and academic Yascha Mounk argues that a new set of ideas about race, gender, and sexual orientation have overtaken society, giving rise to a rigid focus on identity in our national debate. In his new book, “The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time,” Yascha seeks to take these ideas seriously, understand their origin, dissect their merits and failings, and offer a path forward to avoid what he calls “the identity trap.” On today’s show, Mounk previews his book and explains how the identity trap harms freedom of speech.

Mounk is known for his work on the rise of populism and the crisis of liberal democracy. He is a professor of the practice of international affairs at Johns Hopkins University and the author of five books. He is also the founder of the digital magazine Persuasion, a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Transcript:

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-identity-trap-yascha-mounk

Timestamps:

Discussed intellectuals: 

Derrick Bell 

Kimberlé Crenshaw 

Jacques Derrida 

Michel Foucault

Christopher Rufo (Rufo’s book, “America’s Cultural Revolution,” and Nico’s review, “Christopher Rufo Became the Thing He Claims to Hate”)

Edward Said

Jean-Paul Sartre

Gayatri Spivak 

Cass Sunstein (article: “The Law of Group Polarization”)

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FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London join the show to preview Greg’s new co-authored book on cancel culture and to discuss recent free speech cases and headlines:

“The Canceling of the American Mind,” by Greg Lukianoff and Rikki Schlott (out Oct. 17)

 Colorado public school to allow student to display Gadsden flag patch — as long as nobody complains

 California library violates First Amendment, boots speakers for referring to transgender women as ‘biological men’

 Police stage ‘chilling’ raid on Marion County newspaper, seizing computers, records and cellphones

Federal judge: Texas Law Mandating Age Verification for Sexually Themed Sites Violates First Amendment (Court Also Strikes Down "Public Health Warning" for Porn Sites)

 Judge blocks Arkansas law requiring parental OK for minors to create social media accounts

Federal judge bars Texas from enforcing book rating law

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Harvey Silverglate is a criminal defense and civil liberties attorney. He is also the co-founder of FIRE.

On today’s show, Harvey defends the work of criminal defense attorneys, explaining why even guilty people must have the right to a robust legal defense. He also shares stories from his life, from growing up in Brooklyn to defending Vietnam War protesters to co-founding FIRE.

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High school debate is considered an ideal extracurricular activity for aspiring lawyers, politicians, or anyone seeking to learn the tools of effective communication and persuasion. But a slew of recent reports argue that high school debate is being captured by political ideology, rendering certain arguments off-limits, some debate topics undebatable, and ad hominem attacks fair game.

Debate judges disclose their judging paradigms by saying things like, “I will listen to conservative-leaning arguments, but be careful,” or, “Before anything else, including being a debate judge, I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist. . . . I cannot check the revolutionary proletarian science at the door when I’m judging.” Some debates even devolve into personal attacks, spurred on by judges who say they “will consider indictments of an opponent on the basis that they have done [or] said something racist, gendered, [or] -phobic in their personal behavior.”

On today’s show, we’re joined by two former high school debaters who are dismayed by these trends. James Fishback is the founder of Incubate Debate, which hosts free debate tournaments for students in Florida. Matthew Adelstein is a rising sophomore studying philosophy at the University of Michigan and publishes Bentham's Newsletter, a newsletter about utilitarianism.

Show notes:

“Part I: At high school debates, debate is no longer allowed” by James Fishback

“Part II: At high school debates, watch what you say” by James Fishback

“How critical theory is radicalizing high school debate” by Maya Bodnick

Nico’s current reading list on critical theory: “Grand Hotel Abyss” by Stuart Jeffries and “America’s Cultural Revolution” by Christopher F. Rufo

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We review the Supreme Court’s free speech cases during the 2022-23 term and speculate on what’s in store for the next term. FIRE Vice President of Litigation Darpana Sheth guest hosts and is joined by FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London.

This episode was recorded before a virtual live audience on July 20. Watch a video of the conversation.

Transcript

Cases discussed:

303 Creative v Elenis 

Counterman v. Colorado

United States v. Hansen

Twitter v. Taamneh

Gonzales v. Google

The Netchoice cases

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In the last episode of the “So to Speak” podcast, we traced the dramatic story of free speech in the United States from colonial America to the abolitionists' campaign to abolish slavery. In this week’s episode, we pick up where we left off and explore the complicated history and legacy of civil liberties during the American Civil War.

Professor and author Joseph R. Fornieri and FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere join the show this week to unpack Abraham Lincoln’s justifications for suspending civil liberties and the important lesson that, in war, civil liberties can be hard to uphold, and our rights can be difficult to defend. 

Show notes:

“Fateful Lightning: A New History of the Civil War and Reconstruction” by Allen Guelzo

“Lincoln’s First Amendment Record” by Eve Errickson (The Lincoln Cottage)

“The Fate of Liberty: Abraham Lincoln and Civil Liberties” by Mark E. Neeley, Jr.

“All the Laws but One: Civil Liberties in Wartime” by William H. Rehnquist

“Did Abraham Lincoln Exceed His Presidential Powers during the Civil War?” (The Bill of Rights Institute)

“Lincoln and Civil Liberties” (The Gilder-Lehrman Institute)

 Join FIRE on July 20th at 3:00 PM EST for a special live-streamed episode of the "So to Speak" podcast about the Supreme Court's free speech decisions from this past term. 

Hear from FIRE’s Darpana Sheth, Bob Corn-Revere, and Ronnie London on what these decisions mean for free expression, (and maybe even for you), and ask the panel anywhatever burning questions you may have.  You can register here.

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Last Constitution Day, we traced the origins of free speech in the United States from colonial America to the ratification of the Bill of Rights in 1791. In this episode, we jump forward to the antebellum period, where abolitionists such as Frederick Douglass, John Quincy Adams, William Lloyd Garrison, and Angelina Grimké clashed with pro-slavery advocates over the monumental issue of slavery.

Journalist and author Damon Root, FIRE Senior Fellow Jacob Mchangama, and Washington and Lee University professor Lucas Morel join the show this week to explore how free speech and the free press became the essential tools in the abolitionists’ campaign for freedom. 

Show notes:

“Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media” by Jacob Mchangama

“Glorious Liberty: Frederick Douglass and the Fight for an Anti-Slavery Constitution” by Damon Root

“Speaking the Truth” by Lucas Morel (Persuasion)

“A Plea for Free Speech in Boston” by Federick Douglass (National Constitution Center)

“Frederick Douglass” (The First Amendment Encyclopedia)

“What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?” by Frederick Douglass (Teaching American History)

“With the Freedom of Speech, the Responsibility to Listen” (Ford Foundation)

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Nico knows very little about punk rock. On today’s show, Reason magazine’s Nick Gillespie and FIRE Vice President of Communications Matt Harwood do their best to explain to Nico why he and other free speech advocates should care about punk rock. 

Transcript:  https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-why-should-we-care-about-punk-rock

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Winning in the court of public opinion is hard. On today’s show, Ewing School founder Bob Ewing shares communications strategies that anyone — including free speech advocates — can use to win in the marketplace of ideas.

Prior to founding the Ewing School, Bob was director of communications for the Institute for Justice and pioneered a communications training program for the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. Bob is also the author of the Talking Big Ideas Substack, which Nico highly recommends.

Bob first shared his ideas on effective communication with host Nico Perrino over lunch in May 2013. Some of those ideas went on to shape FIRE’s communications strategy for the next decade.

Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-how-make-winning-free-speech-argument

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On April 18, Fox News agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems $787.5 million to settle a defamation lawsuit stemming from allegations of voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election. The historic settlement came just before the trial was set to begin in a case many saw as having significant First Amendment implications. In this exclusive conversation, attorneys for Fox and Dominion join First Amendment attorney Lee Levine to reflect on what led to the case, its outcome, and the arguments they would have made had the case gone to trial. 

Tom Clare is a founding partner of Clare Locke LLP and was counsel to Dominion. Dan Webb is co-executive chairman of Winston & Strawn and was counsel for Fox News.

The conversation was organized and presented by The First Amendment Salon on Tuesday, May 9.

Show notes:

Transcript

Video of the conversation

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Rocking their tuxedos in preparation for the 2023 FIRE gala in New York City, Host Nico Perrino speaks with rapper and free speech advocate Killer Mike about his journey toward learning the value of free expression.

They also discuss the importance of free speech in American history, the value of engaging and arguing with those who disagree with us, why free speech was critical to gaining racial equality, defending rappers and artists being prosecuted for their lyrics, and why polarization is more dangerous than anything anybody can say.

The interview is followed by Killer Mike’s keynote speech.

Watch Killer Mike's keynote speech at the 2023 FIRE Gala in New York City:

https://youtu.be/OBuXYtmQ8mw

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Does music censorship still happen in America? Is “sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll” dead? Is transgression in art and culture celebrated anymore (or was it ever)? From Beyonce and Taylor Swift to Ozzy Osbourne and Robin Thicke, SPIN magazine founder Bob Guccione Jr. and Reason magazine Editor at Large Nick Gillespie join a lively discussion of our current moment in pop culture. Bob also shares some war stories from his fight against the Parents Music Resource Center in the 1980s.

Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-sex-drugs-and-free-speech

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What’s going on in Florida? Host Nico Perrino and his FIRE colleagues break down the latest efforts to censor speech in the Sunshine State.

Show notes:

“VICTORY: After FIRE lawsuit, court halts enforcement of key provisions of the Stop WOKE Act limiting how Florida professors can teach about race, sex”

“Thought the ‘Stop WOKE Act’ was bad? A new Florida bill is worse”

“Unconstitutional and un-American, Senate Bill 1316 would force bloggers who criticize the government to register with the state”

“Florida bill attacking NYT v. Sullivan would ‘spell disaster’ for free speech”

Miami Herald: “Florida undercover agents reported no ‘lewd acts’ at drag show targeted by DeSantis” by Nicholas Nehamas and Ana Ceballos

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UPDATE: Just as this podcast was to be published, Stanford Law School Dean Jenny Martinez sent a 10-page memorandum to the law school community outlining a path forward for the school, including updating school policies to prevent future speaker disruptions and mandatory student free speech training. She also announced that Associate Dean Tirien Steinbach is on leave.

–

The heckling began almost as soon as Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Kyle Duncan started his invited lecture at Stanford Law School on March 9. Signs in the audience read “RESPECT TRANS RIGHTS,” “FEDSUCK,” “BE PRONOUN NOT PRO-BIGOT.”  What transpired over the next 40 minutes captured national headlines and raised questions about the state of free speech at America’s law schools.

David Lat writes commentary about law and the legal profession for Original Jurisdiction. Until 2019, he was an editor at the legal news website Above the Law, which he founded. Prior to his journalism career, David was a practicing lawyer.

Show notes:

“Yale Law is no longer #1 for free speech debacles” by David Lat

“7 updates on Judge Kyle Duncan and Stanford Law” by David Lat

“The full audio recording of Judge Kyle Duncan at Stanford Law” by David Lat

Transcript of Stanford administrator Dean Tirien Steinbach’s remarks on March 9 at event featuring Fifth Circuit Judge Kyle Duncan

Email to Stanford Law School from Dean Jenny Martinez

Stanford apology letter to Judge Kyle Duncan

Flyers protesting Stanford law event

“​​Shouting down speakers is mob censorship” by Nadine Strossen and Greg Lukianoff

Kalven Committee: Report on the university’s role in political and social action (University of Chicago report)

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Ilya Shapiro joins the show to discuss the fireworks in the Fox/Dominion defamation lawsuit, his recent speaking appearance at the University of Denver, and his “cancel culture nightmare” at Georgetown University.

Shapiro is a senior fellow and director of constitutional studies at the Manhattan Institute. He previously (and briefly) served as executive director and senior lecturer at the Georgetown Center for the Constitution and as a vice president at the Cato Institute.

Shapiro will speak at FIRE’s gala celebration in NYC on April 18. Reserve your tickets now at this link.

Show notes:

“My cancel culture nightmare is over” by Ilya Shapiro

“Ilya Shapiro resigns from Georgetown following reinstatement after 122-day investigation of tweets” (featuring Ilya’s resignation letter)

Ilya’s Substack, Shapiro’s Gavel

“Why the mental health of liberal girls sank first and fastest” by Jonathan Haidt

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The seminal 1964 Supreme Court decision in New York Times v. Sullivan limited the ability of public officials to silence their critics by successfully suing them for defamation. Sullivan made “American public officials more accountable, the American media more watchful, and the American people better informed,” said William Rehnquist, the late Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. But Sullivan is increasingly under attack from politicians, activists, and even sitting Justices of the Supreme Court. They believe the decision went too far, enabling the news media and others to defame others with little-to-no consequence. On today’s show, we are joined by lawyers Floyd Abrams (Cahill Gordon & Reindel), JT Morris (FIRE), and Matthew Schafer (Fordham Law) to discuss New York Times v. Sullivan and its future. Show notes:

 New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964)

“Two Justices Say Supreme Court Should Reconsider Landmark Libel Decision” by Adam Liptak

“How to Restore Balance to Libel Law” by Glenn Reynolds

Florida HB 991, the anti-Sullivan bill

Matthew Schafer’s tweet thread on Florida’s HB 991

“New York Times v. Sullivan and the Forgotten Session of the US Supreme Court” by Matthew Schafer

“The Most Important Supreme Court Precedent for Freedom of the Press Is in Jeopardy” by Matthew Schafer and Jeff Kosseff

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FIRE’s Will Creeley and Aaron Terr join the show to discuss Phoenix, Arizona’s unconstitutional “clean zone” for Super Bowl LVII, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s effort to get public school students to volunteer for her re-election campaign, recent polling on how much people really know about the First Amendment (sadly, not much), and Indiegogo, Kickstarter, and Crowdfundr canceling fundraisers for comic books they deemed politically unacceptable. 

We also provide an update on the Hamline University Muhammad art censorship case.

Show notes:

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What does the rise of artificial intelligence mean for the future of free speech and the First Amendment? Who is liable for what AI produces? Can you own a copyright for works produced by AI? Does AI itself violate intellectual property rights when it uses others’ information to generate content? What about that Morgan Freeman “deep fake”? And is ChatGPT going to make all of our jobs irrelevant?

Show notes:

Guests:

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A faculty member at Hamline University lost her job. Twelve staffers at the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo were murdered. And Salman Rushdie was repeatedly stabbed. All of them offended certain people’s religious sensitivities.

On today’s show, we are joined by Amna Khalid and Michael Moynihan to discuss the risks and costs of teaching, talking, writing, and creating art about religion, particularly Islam. We also discuss the recent #TwitterFiles reporting.

Amna Khalid is an associate professor of history at Carleton College and host of the podcast “Banished.” Michael Moynihan is a writer, reporter, and co-host of “The Fifth Column” podcast.

Show notes:

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Do Ann Coulter’s words equal “violence”? Does Emerson College care more about not offending the Chinese Communist Party than protecting student free speech rights? And are faculty political litmus tests back in vogue? FIRE’s Alex Morey and Zach Greenberg join the show to discuss the latest in campus censorship.

Please support this show by donating to FIRE before the end of the year: thefire.org/support

Show notes:

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Hot on the heels of oral argument in 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis, FIRE’s Ronnie London and David Hudson join the show to discuss the case, as well as other high profile free speech cases at the Supreme Court this year.

Show notes:

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FIRE’s new Director of Public Advocacy Aaron Terr and the Cato Institute’s Will Duffield join the show to discuss a slew of recent free speech news. California gets it right on rap lyrics but wrong on coronavirus misinformation. One Texas school district repeatedly ventures into book banning. LeBron James spreads “hate speech” misinformation. Is government “jawboning” censorship? And, yes, Elon Musk . . . again.

Show notes:

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FIRE’s Will Creeley and Aaron Terr join the show to discuss a slew of recent free speech news: What do we make of Elon Musk buying Twitter? Is PayPal fining its users $2,500 for promoting “misinformation”? Is New York trying to destroy Twitch? And do public employees in Charlottesville, Va., need to shut their mouths to keep their jobs? Also, how’s FIRE’s off-campus expansion going?

Show notes:

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Do books need a special editor who reads for offensive content? And who gets to decide what’s offensive anyway? This week we are joined by authors Kat Rosenfield and Vesper Stamper to discuss censorial trends in book publishing, including the rise of so-called “sensitivity readers” and the sometimes successful campaigns to get books canceled before they are even published. We also explore adjacent debates: Is it appropriate to write outside of one’s identity or lived experience? And can authors write about people who do bad things without endorsing the bad things they do?

Show notes:

www.sotospeakpodcast.com

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Does the First Amendment to the United States Constitution protect a private social media company’s right to moderate content on its platform?A new ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit says it does not, and that a Texas law preventing viewpoint discrimination on social media platforms is constitutional.The issue is likely bound for the Supreme Court, setting up what is arguably the most consequential First Amendment legal case in a half-century. Institute for Free Speech Chairman and Founder Brad Smith and George Mason University law professor Ilya Somin join us to debate the ruling and the future of free speech on the internet.

Show notes:

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“Should academic journals appoint themselves social justice gatekeepers?”That is the question journalist and author Jonathan Rauch asks in responding to new ethics guidance from the academic journal Nature Human Behaviour. The journal introduces the guidance by ominously noting that “although academic freedom is fundamental, it is not unbounded.” It then goes on to discuss ways it will restrict publishing research that allegedly harms, stigmatizes, or otherwise “undermines the dignity or rights of specific groups” — even inadvertently.Rauch joins the show, along with University of Southern California professor Anna Krylov.

Show notes:

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This Saturday, Sept. 17, is Constitution Day. It was on this day in 1787 that delegates to the Constitutional Convention signed America’s Constitution. And while the First Amendment was not ratified until 1791, discussions over the role of free speech and expression in a democratic society were alive long before then.

Pepperdine University professor and author Gordon Lloyd joins the show this week to explore how the American conception of free speech came to be, from the colonial era to the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Drawing from over 40 years of research, Lloyd discusses examples of free speech and expression during the founding, ranging from 1641, when the Massachusetts Body of Liberties — the earliest known protection of free speech in the colonies — was published; to 1776, when free speech aided the decision to declare independence from Great Britain; to the late 1780s, when federalist and anti-federalist publications sparked, in Lloyd’s words, “the greatest pamphlet war the world has ever seen.”

Show notes:

www.sotospeakpodcast.com

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What can Charles Darwin teach us about dissent? What do the professional basketball careers of Wilt Chamberlain and Rick Barry tell us about conventional wisdom?On today’s show, George Mason University Professor Todd Kashdan helps us understand the value of principled dissent: what it is, how to do it, and the pitfalls to avoid. He is the author of “The Art of Insubordination: How to Dissent and Defy Effectively.” 

Show notes:

www.sotospeakpodcast.com

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Last week, a would-be assassin attacked Salman Rushdie, author of “The Satanic Verses,”  in an apparent attempt to carry out the infamous fatwa placed on Rushdie’s life. Fortunately, Rushdie survived the attack. Vice News Tonight correspondent and “The Fifth Column” podcast co-host Michael Moynihan joins the show to discuss what happened, what it means for free speech, and the history of “The Satanic Verses” controversy. 

Show notes:

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When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion in the United States, many people expected states to pass laws restricting access to abortion services. Perhaps less expected was that some lawmakers now seek to pass laws restricting — and criminalizing — speech about abortion services.

FIRE Legal Director Will Creeley and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen join the show to discuss their recent essay, “That Facebook post about abortion could land you in jail — if South Carolina legislators have their way.”

Show notes:

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Substack — the popular newsletter and publishing service — has made a name for itself by swimming against the current: As many technology companies devise new ways to censor or moderate content on their platforms, Substack made free speech one of its core values and, in doing so, has attracted bloggers and journalists from across the political spectrum.

“While we have content guidelines that allow us to protect the platform at the extremes, we will always view censorship as a last resort, because we believe open discourse is better for writers and better for society,” proclaimed Substack’s founders.

Lulu Cheng Meservey is Vice President of Communications for Substack. She went viral earlier this year when she tweeted about why free expression is an important principle for Substack. She joins us this week to discuss Substack, free speech, and the new media ecosystem.

Show notes:

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Last month, the U.S. Department of Education proposed new Title IX regulations that, if implemented, would gut essential free speech and due process rights for college students facing sexual misconduct allegations on campus.

Joining us to analyze the regulations and their impact are FIRE’s executive director and author of the book “Twisting Title IX,” Robert Shibley, Allen Harris Law Partner Samantha Harris, and Brooklyn College professor KC Johnson.

Show notes:

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“Every advance gay people have made in this country has been the result of the exercise of free expression,” argues writer James Kirchick, author of the New York Times bestseller, “Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington.”

Transcript:

https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-first-amendment-created-gay-america/

www.sotospeakpodcast.com

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Today, the Foundation for Individual Rights *in Education* becomes the Foundation for Individual Rights *and Expression*.

America’s leading defender of free speech, due process, and academic freedom in higher education announced it is taking its free speech mission beyond college campuses with a $75 million expansion initiative.

FIRE President & CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE COO Alisha Glennon join the show to discuss how the organization is changing and why.

Transcript:

www.sotospeakpodcast.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakTheFreeSpeechPodcast

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: sotospeak@thefire.org

In this week’s episode of So to Speak, we focus on some of the notable cases of music censorship in America, the formation of the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC), and the lasting effects of the PMRC’s efforts on the music industry.

Author Eric Nuzum joins us to discuss his 2001 book, “Parental Advisory: Music Censorship in America.” Nuzum illustrates examples of music censorship ranging from the Reconstruction era, when Southerners were prevented from publicly singing pro-Confederate ballads, to 1967, when the network that aired televised live performances by The Doors and The Rolling Stones asked the bands to alter their lyrics. Nuzum also discusses the PMRC’s “Filthy Fifteen”; Senate hearings featuring John Denver, Frank Zappa, and Dee Snider; post-9/11 radio censorship; and more recent controversies involving the use of rap lyrics as evidence in criminal trials.

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Twitter is going to become 8chan. At least, that’s what a recent episode of the popular radio program “On the Media” suggests will happen if Elon Musk successfully buys Twitter.

Musk promised to bring greater free speech protections to the social media platform. But where Musk sees an opportunity for more freedom, some see the potential for too much freedom. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, Matt Taibbi, Nadine Strossen, and Amna Khalid discuss what “On the Media” got wrong and what they got really wrong in their episode “Ghost in the Machine.” (No, “On the Media,” Twitter will not become a platform for child pornography.)

This is the second time we have addressed bad free speech arguments from “On the Media.” The first time was last September, when this same group responded to the episode, “Constitutionally Speaking.”

Matt Taibbi is the author of four New York Times bestselling books. He writes a popular Substack newsletter, TK News.

Nadine Strossen is a professor of law, emerita at New York Law School and served for 17 years as the president of the ACLU.

Amna Khalid is an associate professor of history at Carleton College and the host of a new podcast called “Banished.”

Transcript

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Did you know Hugh Hefner holds the Guinness World Record for owning the largest personal scrapbook collection in the world?When he was not building the global Playboy empire, he spent his Saturdays compiling more than 3,000 scrapbooks, chronicling free speech and press issues during his lifetime.

Stuart N. Brotman, professor at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, was granted exclusive access to Hefner’s scrapbooks. On today’s episode, he talks about what he found and about his new book, “The First Amendment Lives On: Conversations Commemorating Hugh M. Hefner's Legacy of Enduring Free Speech and Free Press Values.”

Show notes:

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Does Disney have free speech rights? And did Florida violate the First Amendment when it punished the company for its political activism? Elon Musk is buying Twitter. What should free speech advocates make of that?

Recurring guest and famed First Amendment scholar Robert Corn-Revere is here to break it all down for us. He’s a partner at the law firm Davis Wright-Tremaine, a member of FIRE’s Advisory Council, and the author of “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder: The First Amendment and the Censor’s Dilemma.”

Show notes:

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What is academic freedom? And who polices its boundaries?

Our guests on today’s show argue that the popular conception of academic freedom has become too closely connected with the concept of free speech.

Penn State Professor Michael Bérubé and Portland State Professor Jennifer Ruth are the authors of “It’s Not Free Speech: Race, Democracy, and the Future of Academic Freedom.”

Show notes:

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Konstantin Eggert, a native Muscovite, has reported on Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. He started his reporting career in Moscow in 1990. From 1998-2009, he was senior correspondent, then editor-in-chief, of the BBC Russian Service Moscow bureau. Later he worked for ExxonMobil Russia and Russian media outlets, Kommersant and TV Rain. 

Now, living in Lithuania, Eggert is a vocal critic of the Putin regime and has more than a few thoughts on censorship in Russia: specifically, how it compares to Soviet censorship, the decline of independent media in the country, Russian history, and the war in Ukraine.

Eggert currently works for a German broadcaster, Deutsche Welle.

Show notes:

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​​The Russian government has purged independent media, banned protests, and shut down social media access. So, do Russians know the truth about the war in Ukraine?

Ksenia Turkova is a journalist from Russia who currently works for Voice of America. Before coming to the United States she worked for a number of Russian news outlets, including some that were shut down by the Russian government. She also spent time as a radio host in Ukraine.

On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” Turkova shares her reporting on Russian censorship and the war in Ukraine, as well as some of her firsthand experiences as a reporter in the country.

Transcript

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​​“No chief justice in our history has had as much influence on the law of freedom of expression as John Roberts,” according to Ronald K.L. Collins and David L. Hudson Jr.

They are the authors of a new Brooklyn Law Review article, “The Roberts Court—Its First Amendment Free Expression Jurisprudence: 2005–2021.”

On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” Collins and Hudson review 58 First Amendment rulings that have been issued since John Roberts became Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.

Collins is a First Amendment scholar, author, and editor of First Amendment News. Hudson is the Justice Robert H. Jackson legal fellow at FIRE and a professor at Belmont University College of Law. 

Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-john-roberts-supreme-court/

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On today’s episode of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast,” we are joined by Robert Corn-Revere and David Hudson to discuss Sarah Palin v. New York Times, a defamation case that has captured national attention. Corn-Revere is a partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP and the author of the new book, “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder.” Hudson is the Justice Robert H. Jackson legal fellow at FIRE and a professor at Belmont University College of Law. 

Transcript

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On today’s episode, we feature a live recording of “So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast” with Jacob Mchangama, author of “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media,” in conversation with FIRE’s Greg Lukianoff, Sarah McLaughlin, host Nico Perrino, and NYU professor Stephen D. Solomon.

The panelists discuss how lessons from free speech movements throughout world history can help explain today’s divisions over the value of free speech, and how conflicts between egalitarian and elitist schools of free speech thought are still with us in the digital age.

This recording was a co-sponsored event with First Amendment Watch at New York University.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by FIRE’s Joe Cohn and the American Enterprise Institute’s Max Eden to debate and discuss legislative efforts to ban critical race theory, or so-called “divisive concepts,” from being taught in schools.

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There are very few exceptions to the First Amendment. “Fighting words” is one of them. But since the Supreme Court first outlined this exception in 1942, it hasn’t shown much interest in revisiting the issue. 

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we’re joined by First Amendment scholar and FIRE Legal Fellow David L. Hudson Jr., who argues the “fighting words” doctrine is still alive and well in lower courts and is used to justify punishing everything from toilet tirades to cursing in a canoe.

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Who was Eric Arthur Blair, better known by his pen name “George Orwell?”

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore the life and work of an author who died at the age of 46 but whose writings — namely “Animal Farm” and “1984” — still help to shape our understanding of the freedoms of speech and conscience.

Joining us for the discussion is the author of Orwell’s authorized biography, Indiana State University professor Michael Shelden. Shelden’s biography of Orwell was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in 1992.

Show notes

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by The Atlantic magazine Staff Writer Caitlin Flanagan and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss a wide range of topics, including Caitlin’s articles that touch on free speech, her growing up in Berkeley, Calif. the daughter of a professor, and newsroom orthodoxies and censorship.

Show notes:

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Pano Kanelos believes higher education is broken. But he isn’t waiting for colleges and universities to fix themselves. He’s starting his own.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Kanelos who is the inaugural president of the University of Austin, a new university devoted to free speech and open inquiry. Its initial programming, a Forbidden Courses summer program, aims to foster spirited discussion about the most provocative questions that often lead to censorship or self-censorship at many other universities.

Kanelos is a Shakespeare scholar and the former president of St. John's College in Annapolis, Md. He co-founded the University of Austin with Niall Ferguson, Bari Weiss, Heather Heying, and Joe Lonsdale.

Show notes:

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Censors almost never think they are censors. They often see themselves as heroes, saving the world from the destructive effects of rock ‘n’ roll, movies, comic books, pornography, video games, the internet, etc. 

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, author Robert Corn-Revere joins us to discuss how censors operate and why they never occupy the moral high ground. Robert is an attorney and partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP and the author of the new book, “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder.”

Show notes:

https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-mind-of-the-censor-with-robert-corn-revere/

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A consensus has emerged from a growing pile of scholarly research: Trigger warnings don’t work.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Carleton College associate professors Amna Khalid and Jeffrey Snyder to explore what the latest research says about the efficacy of trigger warnings. We also discuss one of the more contentious debates surrounding academic freedom: the rising prevalence of so-called diversity, equity, and inclusion statements for college faculty job applications and evaluations.

Show notes:

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September 25 was First Amendment Day in America — the anniversary of the date in 1789 when Congress approved 12 amendments to our Constitution, including what we today call the Bill of Rights. 

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the origin story and history of America’s First Amendment and its five freedoms.

To do so, host Nico Perrino is joined by Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale University Akhil Reed Amar. Amar is the author of “The Words That Made Us: America’s Constitutional Conversation, 1760-1840” and the host of the podcast “Amarica’s Constitution.”

Show notes:

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Last month, On the Media, a popular radio program from New York City’s WNYC, aired an episode that questioned free speech values and challenged so-called “free speech absolutism.”

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Matt Taibbi, Nadine Strossen, and Amna Khalid, who provide direct responses to many of the free speech critiques made in On the Media’s program.

Show notes:

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Are America’s schools becoming too political? 

FIRE’s Director of High School Programs argues, “Yes.” Bonnie Kerrigan Snyder is an educator with over 20 years of experience, and she’s worried by what she sees.

Amidst controversies surrounding so-called critical race theory, school walkouts, and standardized tests, Snyder increasingly hears reports of children “being indoctrinated, bullied, and harassed by their fellow students and teachers for not falling into line on various topics.”

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss Snyder’s new book, “Undoctrinate: How Politicized Classrooms Harm Kids and Ruin Our Schools—And What We Can Do About It.”

Show notes:

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Hollywood’s Motion Picture Production Code, popularly referred to as the Hays Code, loomed over films in every stage of movie production from 1934 to 1968. Scripts were reviewed and altered. Actors and filmmakers were forced to redo entire scenes. Editors were asked to cut dialogue and scenes from films. Music was changed. Ultimately, directors had to be cognizant of the censors at all times.

In this episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we interview three prominent guests to track the history of film censorship and the eventual demise of the Hays Code.

John Billheimer, author of “Hitchcock and the Censors (Screen Classics),” explains Alfred Hitchcock’s unique methods for dealing with controversial subject matter.

Laura Wittern-Keller is a professor in the History department at the University at Albany and author of several books on film censorship, including “Freedom of the Screen: Legal Challenges to State Film Censorship, 1915-1981” and “The Miracle Case: Film Censorship and the Supreme Court.”

Bob Corn-Revere, partner at Davis Wright Tremaine, is a frequent guest on the show. His forthcoming book “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder: The First Amendment and the Censor’s Dilemma,” is due out in October.

Show notes:

Morris Ernst may be the most influential free speech lawyer you’ve never heard of. He was the longtime general counsel for the ACLU, helped found the National Lawyers Guild, and just about single-handedly whittled away at obscenity laws in the United States — even litigating the famous “Ulysses” case, which overturned a 13-year ban on James’ Joyce’s renowned novel.

But he was an enigma: A staunch anti-communist and sometimes red-baiter, a close confidant of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, an unofficial PR agent for the FBI, and, later in his life, a crusader against the relative sexual permissiveness of the 1960s and ‘70s.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by University at Buffalo School of Law Professor Samantha Barbas to discuss her new book, “The Rise and Fall of Morris Ernst, Free Speech Renegade.”

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Stetson University Professor of Psychology Christopher J. Ferguson for a wide-ranging conversation about the psychology of censorship, the role of madness and eccentricity in shaping history, the effects of social media, the growing polarization and politicization of modern institutions, including academia, and more.

Ferguson is the author of the new book “How Madness Shaped History: An Eccentric Array of Maniacal Rulers, Raving Narcissists, and Psychotic Visionaries.” He also co-authored “Moral Combat: Why the War on Violent Video Games is Wrong,” which was the subject of a past So to Speak episode.

Show notes:

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This week, the United States Supreme Court vindicated the First Amendment rights of a high school cheerleader who was punished for a salty Snapchat she sent outside of school. It was a resounding victory for free speech advocates and the first time the Supreme Court has considered a high school free speech case since its disappointing 2007 ruling in Morse v. Frederick.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we analyze the Supreme Court’s ruling in Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. with FIRE Legal Director Will Creeley and FIRE Legal Fellow David Hudson.

Show notes:

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Photo by Danna Singer/Provided by the ACLU

Socrates’ fateful hemlock. Henry VIII’s death decree for those who imagined his downfall. The 1836 “Gag Rule” banning slavery discussions in Congress. Britain’s early ban on films criticizing Hitler and Stalin.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by lawyer and writer Eric Berkowitz to discuss his fascinating new book, “Dangerous Ideas: A Brief History of Censorship in the West, from the Ancients to Fake News.” 

Berkowitz’s “Dangerous Ideas” is a comprehensive and insightful adventure through time to examine censorship’s origins and trends.

Also joining the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff.

Show notes:

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What differentiates Albert Einstein from a madman? How do we turn disagreement into knowledge? How do we know what’s true in a world filled with disinformation, conspiracy theories, trolling, and social media pile-ons?

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Jonathan Rauch to discuss his new book “The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth,” which is set for release on June 22, 2021.

Also joining the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff.

Show notes:

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Rebellion! Crime! Juvenile delinquency!

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, producer Chris Maltby explores the rise of comic books in the early 20th century and the moral panic, book burnings, and censorship that followed.

Show notes:

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Are education schools secretly driving campus censorship? 

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Lewis & Clark Associate Professor of English Lyell Asher to discuss his 2018 article for the Chronicle of Higher Education, “How Ed Schools Became a Menace.”

Also joining the conversation is FIRE President & CEO Greg Lukianoff, co-author of the bestseller “The Coddling of the American Mind.”

Show notes:

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Ninth grader Brandi Levy was frustrated when she didn’t make her high school’s varsity cheerleading team so she posted an intemperate video about it on Snapchat to her 250 “friends.”

Four years later, that video, which led to her suspension from the junior varsity cheer team, will take center stage at the United States Supreme Court. 

Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. is a case that University of Florida Professor Frank LoMonte says will determine “the future of student free speech.”

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by LoMonte, who also leads the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information, and FIRE Program Officer Lindsie Rank to discuss the Mahanoy case, which could answer some important lingering questions about student speech rights off-campus and on social media.

The Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments in the case on Wednesday, April 28. A decision is expected this summer.

Show notes:

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Editor's note: A previously published version of this episode featured an incorrect audio file for a different FIRE podcast. The error has been fixed and the correct audio file uploaded. We apologize for the error.

Retired University of Wisconsin Professor Donald Downs is a legendary champion of free speech and academic freedom. But before he became one of the country’s preeminent defenders of these values, he wrote a book that challenged prevailing free speech arguments.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Professor Downs to discuss his journey from somewhat of a free speech skeptic to one of its most fervent defenders.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the newly formed Academic Freedom Alliance, which is a union of American college faculty members dedicated to protecting faculty expressive and academic freedom rights.

Keith E. Whittington is the William Nelson Cromwell Professor of Politics in the Department of Politics at Princeton University. Professor Whittington is the chair of AFA’s Academic Committee. He also is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors.

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There are very few exceptions to the First Amendment, and “incitement to imminent lawless action” is one of them. In the wake of former President Donald Trump’s impeachment trial over his alleged incitement of the Jan. 6 violence at the U.S Capitol, this obscure legal doctrine has captured headlines.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the incitement doctrine, and whether Trump’s Jan. 6 speech amounted to incitement, with First Amendment scholar and FIRE Legal Fellow David L. Hudson Jr. He is an Assistant Professor of Law at Belmont University and the Justice Robert H. Jackson Legal Fellow at FIRE.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore a multi-year public records odyssey at the University of California, Los Angeles involving former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, a campus appearance, administrative stonewalling, and, finally, a successful lawsuit filed by FIRE.

And, on the eve of Student Press Freedom Day, we learn about the challenges student journalists face accessing public records in the University of California system and why access to such records is important for democracy and for student journalists to fulfill their watchdog role.

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by media lawyer Ian Rosenberg to discuss his new book, “The Fight for Free Speech: Ten Cases That Define Our First Amendment Freedoms.”

Rosenberg is assistant chief counsel at ABC, Inc., where he has provided pre-broadcast counsel for ABC News clients on libel, newsgathering, intellectual property, and FCC regulatory issues since 2003.

Show notes:

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Last summer, Columbia University Professor John McWhorter wrote that he was receiving missives almost daily “from professors living in constant fear for their career because their opinions” are incompatible with campus orthodoxies. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we catch up with McWhorter to discuss how the culture has changed (or not) since The Atlantic published his article, “Academics Are Really, Really Worried About Their Freedom.”

McWhorter is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors and the host of the popular Lexicon Valley podcast.

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by senior editor at The Atlantic Kate Julian and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss rising rates of childhood depression, anxiety, and suicide. 

How might these trends be connected to the way we parent our kids — and what do they mean for our wider society and for campus free speech?

Kate is the author of the 2020 Atlantic cover story, “What Happened To American Childhood?,” and this conversation is part of Greg’s “Catching up with Coddling” blog series, in which he reviews recent developments related to the themes of his co-authored 2018 book “The Coddling of the American Mind.”

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Reason Magazine Senior Editor Robby Soave and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss the Washington, DC Capitol riot of Jan. 6, 2021 and the effect it has had — and will have — on free speech, particularly speech on the internet.

Robby is the author of the forthcoming book “Tech Panic.”

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by the editor of NationalReview.com, Charles C.W. Cooke, to discuss free speech philosophy, Christopher Hitchens, the October murder of a school teacher in France, and recent attacks on Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by Richard Ovenden to discuss his new book, “Burning the Books: A History of the Deliberate Destruction of Knowledge.”Ovenden is the Director of the Bodleian Libraries at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Balliol College. In 2019, he was awarded the Order of the British Empire.

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by FIRE’s Robert Shibley and Adam Goldstein to discuss recent cases of censorship — and a case of racial segregation — on campus.

Show notes:

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Senior Circuit Judge Douglas H. Ginsburg for a masterclass on the history of the U.S. Constitution.

Judge Ginsburg was appointed to the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in 1986 and served as that court’s Chief Judge from 2001-2008. He is also a Professor of Law at George Mason University and the host of the new PBS television series about the U.S. Constitution, “A More or Less Perfect Union, A Personal Exploration by Judge Douglas Ginsburg.”

Show notes:

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Since 1980, the Hugh M. Hefner First Amendment Awards have recognized those who go above and beyond to protect and enhance First Amendment rights.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Christie Hefner, who founded and chairs the awards, to discuss the awards’ origins and this year’s awardees in the categories of law, book publishing, journalism, arts & entertainment, education, and lifetime achievement.

From 1988 to 2008, Christie Hefner — daughter of Playboy founder Hugh Hefner — was Chairman and CEO of Playboy Enterprises, making her the longest-serving female CEO of a U.S. public company. For three years, she appeared on Forbes’ “100 Most Powerful Women” list.

Show notes:

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Watch-along as Co-Director Nico Perrino narrates the new documentary film about the life and career of former ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser, “Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story.”

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Former ACLU Executive Director Ira Glasser discusses the new film about his life and career, “Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story.”The film, now in “virtual cinema,” makes the case for robust free speech protections amidst the “tough” cases, including the 1978 Skokie case and Charlottesville. Along the way, viewers will also learn about Glasser’s growing up in Brooklyn, his friendship with William F. Buckley Jr., his path to the ACLU, which led through Senator Bobby Kennedy’s office, and more.A May 2017 So to Speak interview with Glasser was the inspiration for the Mighty Ira documentary, and this interview is a reflection on some of what has happened since.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, FIRE Senior Research Fellow Sean Stevens joins us to discuss the “2020 College Free Speech Rankings: What’s the Climate for Free Speech on America’s College Campuses?”

The rankings are based on the largest free speech survey of college students ever performed, which collected the views of 20,000 students. We discuss the best and worst colleges for free speech and other interesting data points from the survey: For example, 31% of students don’t believe President Donald Trump should be allowed on campus to share his views. And 22% said the same of former Vice President Joe Biden.

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He is most widely known for his role as lead attorney in what’s simply become known as “the Skokie case.” 

But David Goldberger’s storied legal career goes far beyond his representation of neo-Nazis who wanted to rally in a village where a large number of Holocaust survivors lived.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Goldberger to discuss his half century of practice in First Amendment law —  including his four (successful) trips to the U.S. Supreme Court.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by FIRE’s Robert Shibley and Samantha Harris to discuss a whirlwind summer: FIRE has fielded a record number of requests for help, and this week the Department of Education’s much-anticipated new Title IX regulations go into effect. There’s also “cancel culture.”

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Princeton Professor Peter Singer has been called “the world’s most influential living philosopher.” But he may be as controversial as he is influential. 

It’s perhaps fitting then that he is a founding editor of a new academic publication called the Journal of Controversial Ideas. The journal claims to be the world’s “first open access, peer-reviewed interdisciplinary journal specifically created to promote free inquiry on controversial topics.”

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Professor Singer to discuss the journal, academic freedom, and his own personal brushes with controversy.

A transcript of this episode can be found at this link.

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On today’s episode of So to Speak, we are joined by PEN America CEO Suzanne Nossel to discuss campus censorship, cancel culture, how different generations think about free speech, the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in 2015, and more. Nossel is the author of the forthcoming book, “Dare to Speak: Defending Free Speech for All.”

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As protests against racial injustice continue across America, colleges and universities are increasingly speaking out in support of the protests. What’s more, some are also taking action to investigate or punish faculty critical of the protesters’ perceived aims.

What does this mean for academic freedom and freedom of speech? And does this signal a shift away from the idea, best exemplified by the University of Chicago’s Kalven Report, that there should be a “heavy presumption against the university taking collective action or expressing opinions on the political and social issues of the day?”

To discuss, we are joined by Glenn Loury, Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences at Brown University, who objected to a letter about the protests sent by Brown’s senior administrators.

Show notes:

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