Sound, Light & Frequency

For thirty years, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman have held onto a mysterious artifact from the night Dark Skies premiered: a formula written on the back of a bank deposit envelope by a party crasher who said he was from the Office of Naval Intelligence. He called it “Sound, Light & Frequency” — the “Secrets of the Universe.” Now, for the first time, they are releasing the original Formula publicly.

In this landmark episode, Bryce and Brent retrace how the Formula came into their possession, reveal it in full, and explain where their investigation has led them — what they believe the symbols may represent, why someone claiming to be from Naval Intelligence might have wanted them to see it, and whether understanding the Formula makes that extraordinary encounter seem more or less credible. Then the investigation changes hands. The Formula is now available for anyone to examine, analyze, challenge and interpret. After thirty years, the wait is over — and the larger conversation can begin.

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What happens when the creators of two UFO television series compare notes on how to turn the phenomenon into drama? Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman welcome their friend David O’Leary, creator, writer and executive producer of History’s Project Blue Book, for a conversation about two shows that feel almost like secret-history bookends. Project Blue Book lives in the 1950s; Dark Skies begins in the 1960s. Both combine real people, authentic UFO cases and government secrecy with dramatic license—and, strangely enough, both produced exactly twenty hours of television. From J. Allen Hynek and Edward Ruppelt to Majestic-12, Roswell and the Washington UFO wave, three UFO TV creators finally get to talk shop. 

O’Leary also reveals just how personal his interest in the unexplained has always been. Long before creating Project Blue Book, he studied cognitive science at Vassar and conducted a sensory-deprivation telepathy experiment for his thesis. After selling the series, he had his own startling UFO sighting—a glowing green object moving through the trees above his Los Angeles neighborhood—and says strange synchronicities continued throughout production. He takes Bryce and Brent inside the making of the show: its balance between authenticity and accuracy, the decision to dramatize real cases without pretending to be a documentary, Robert Zemeckis’s involvement, Steven Spielberg’s notes on the Close Encounters episode, and the remarkable access O’Leary had to Hynek’s family and the last surviving director of the real Project Blue Book. 

Then the conversation moves from television history into the mystery itself. O’Leary discusses what he now believes the real Project Blue Book represented, why Roswell still convinces him, his views on Majestic-12, Foo Fighters and UFO interest in nuclear weapons, and why he suspects there may be several different intelligences or mechanisms behind the phenomenon—from extraterrestrials and artificial intelligence to interdimensional contact, time travel and consciousness itself. He also reveals where an unproduced third season would have gone: a global 1954 UFO wave, Stonehenge, Europe and the recovery of Michael Quinn after his extraordinary underwater encounter. It’s Project Blue Book and Dark Skiessharing the same table—and discovering just how much strange territory they have in common. 

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For more than thirty years, The X-Files has been one of the most influential television shows ever made about UFOs, alien abduction, government secrecy and the possibility that extraterrestrials are already here. In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman go back inside the mythology of Mulder and Scully to ask a deceptively simple question: what did The X-Files actually say was going on? The answer involves real aliens, a secret Syndicate, abductions, genetic experiments, alien-human hybrids, black oil, rival extraterrestrial factions, government infiltration—and a conspiracy so layered that even Mulder is constantly mistaking disclosure for disinformation. 

But the bigger question is the one Bryce and Brent have been asking all season: did Hollywood borrow the UFO story from UFOlogy, or did UFOlogy eventually start borrowing it back from Hollywood? Much of what The X-Filesdramatized—crash retrievals, MJ-12-style secrecy, alien bodies, implants, reverse engineering, government disinformation and abduction lore—was already circulating before the show premiered in 1993. Yet decades later, some of the same ideas are being discussed by whistleblowers, former intelligence officials and members of Congress. So was The X-Files simply a brilliant synthesis of existing UFO mythology, or did its enormous cultural impact help shape the way modern people now understand the phenomenon? 

Along the way, Bryce and Brent revisit the show's Emmy breakthrough, its influence on prestige science fiction, Chris Carter's relationship to the UFO subject, and the intriguing claims of former AFOSI officer Richard Doty about his own involvement with the series. They also compare The X-Files with Dark Skies, reflect on what each show did differently, and look ahead to Ryan Coogler's new incarnation of the franchise. In the end, one thing seems certain: with The X-Files, the truth may indeed be out there—but it has never been simple. 

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What happens when ET walks into a bar—and everybody laughs? Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman set out to explore the history of aliens as comedy, only to make an unexpected discovery: some of the funniest extraterrestrials in television and movies have been carrying surprisingly serious UFO ideas with them for more than sixty years. It begins with the 1963 sitcom My Favorite Martian, whose pilot contains an Air Force aerospace test, an anomalous radar encounter, official suppression, a crashed spacecraft, a living non-human occupant, telepathy and an alien hiding in plain sight. Even stranger, Bryce discovers that the fictional X-15 encounter followed only months after a real X-15 pilot reported seeing something unexplained at nearly 60 miles altitude.

From there, Bryce and Brent follow the alien comedy trail through Mork & Mindy, ALF, the Coneheads, 3rd Rock from the Sun, Men in Black, Paul, People of Earth, Resident Alien and SNL’s hilarious alien-abduction sketches. Along the way, a pattern emerges. Early alien comedy made extraterrestrials safe by turning them into eccentric houseguests and cultural anthropologists. Later stories became increasingly comfortable with the real language of the Phenomenon: abductions, missing time, Grays, government investigators, crash retrievals, memory suppression, secret programs and entire taxonomies of non-human beings.

So was Hollywood merely reflecting a growing UFO mythology—or helping create the vocabulary through which we now understand it? From My Favorite Martian giving America permission to laugh at aliens during the era of Betty and Barney Hill, to Men in Black turning secret-keepers into heroes, to Paul literally joking that an alien has been feeding UFO lore to Hollywood for decades, this episode asks whether comedy may be the perfect delivery system for extraordinary ideas: the truth, wrapped in a joke.

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Bryce is fighting laryngitis, but Brent comes to the rescue as Sound, Light & Frequency returns to the woo. After “All About the Woo,” the hosts go even deeper into the possibility that aliens, the paranormal, and the afterlife may not be separate mysteries at all, but different faces of the same phenomenon connected through energy, consciousness, sound, light, and frequency. Using John Keel’s Our Haunted Planet as the launch point, they explore Keel’s idea of “ultraterrestrials” — hidden intelligences that may not simply visit Earth, but haunt, manipulate, monitor, and interact with us through UFOs, Men in Black, missing time, trickster events, tulpas, angels, demigods, and every other kind of high strangeness.

Brent brings three new personal stories that push the conversation into stranger territory. First, he recalls working with Alien and Total Recall writer Dan O’Bannon, who took H.P. Lovecraft’s worldview seriously enough to live inside a lead-lined house surrounded by the recorded sounds of amniotic fluid. Then, after a discussion of Twin Peaks and its haunted woods, owls, electricity, evil, alternate realities, and atomic-age rupture, Brent tells of a daylight encounter with translucent, Predator-like entities in the woods near his Washington home — an experience that seemed to answer him with falling leaves, then with a $100 WGA residual check that arrived days later.

The episode then turns to History’s The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch, where investigators try to measure orbs, portals, radiation spikes, electromagnetic anomalies, buried mysteries, and the terrifying hitchhiker effect. Bryce and Brent compare Skinwalker and Twin Peaks as two versions of the same idea: a place that becomes a portal, where the observer may become part of the experiment. Finally, Brent reveals his most astonishing story of the episode — being shown a secret, mobile archive of UFO media, including footage of a saucer over Mexico City that transformed into a black helicopter, an orange orb moving through a snowy forest, and a recurring farm visitation. The episode ends with Bryce’s most unsettling question: what if consciousness is not simply how we perceive the phenomenon, but the medium through which the phenomenon actually operates?

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What happens after first contact—when the ships have landed, the shooting has stopped, and the aliens aren’t going anywhere? Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman explore the surprisingly complicated futures Hollywood has imagined for humanity once extraterrestrials become conquerors, occupiers, refugees, neighbors, employers, enemies—or even romantic partners. And they confront the question every one of us would eventually have to answer: would you join the resistance, collaborate with the new regime, try to play both sides—or just keep your head down and hope the lights stay on?

From the guerrilla warfare of Falling Skies and the fascist occupation of V to the surveillance state of Captive State and Colony, the stories keep returning to the same uncomfortable truth: alien invasion movies are usually talking about us. Alien Nation turns extraterrestrials into immigrants. District 9 makes them refugees trapped in an apartheid system. Defiance imagines multiple species attempting to build a society together, while Pluribus offers perhaps the strangest possibility of all—a peaceful hive mind that promises to eliminate fear, loneliness, and conflict by eliminating individuality along with them.

But beneath all the science fiction is a question that feels increasingly relevant to Sound, Light & Frequency: if contact is already taking place in some form, what might come next? Bryce and Brent consider whether decades of movies and television are simply exploiting one of humanity’s oldest fears—or whether, intentionally or otherwise, Hollywood has been rehearsing the possibilities for us. Because first contact may be an event. Life after contact is a civilization.

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What happens when an alien comes to Earth alone—with no invasion fleet, no backup, and no easy way home? Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman trace the evolution of the solitary extraterrestrial, from Superman, My Favorite Martian and The Cat from Outer Space to Steven Spielberg’s E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial. Bryce recalls seeing E.T. at an early screening in 1982, while Brent explores the film’s darker origins in Spielberg’s abandoned Night Skies project—and the provocative claim that E.T. may have been inspired by more than imagination.

The journey continues with two very different stranded visitors released in 1984. In Starman, Jeff Bridges becomes the image of a widow’s dead husband and races across America to reach his ride home, discovering that human beings may be at their best when circumstances are at their worst. In John Sayles’s The Brother from Another Planet, Joe Morton plays a silent extraterrestrial fugitive whose experience in Harlem becomes a story about race, immigration, slavery and belonging. Bryce also shares personal connections to both Morton and Karen Allen, while the conversation expands to K-PAX, Sugar, Under the Skin and Resident Alien—stories in which outsiders observe us, imitate us and sometimes become more human than the humans pursuing them.

These films and series turn the stranded alien into science fiction’s cleanest moral experiment: when there is only one of them and billions of us, who poses the greater danger? Bryce and Brent consider why lonely visitors so often repair broken families, develop compassion or curiosity, and force humanity to see itself through unfamiliar eyes. They also confront a deeper question beneath the entertainment: are these solitary beings simply extraterrestrials—or modern versions of angels, demons and messengers shaped by our changing beliefs about the universe?

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What does it take to make an alien feel real? Bryce and Brent welcome Emmy-winning creature-effects legend Todd Masters, founder of MASTERSFX and the artist who helped bring the Dark Skies Grays to life. Todd traces his extraordinary career from calling Ray Harryhausen as a kid and working on The Empire Strikes Back at thirteen to creating hundreds of monsters and extraterrestrials. He reveals how the expanding Dark Skies aliens combined translucent materials, animatronics and early digital effects, then explains how he later reinvented the Skitters and helped transform Doug Jones into Cochise for Steven Spielberg’s Falling Skies. He also shares the unforgettable story of fake body parts escaping down a raging river—and being reeled in by some very startled teenagers.

The conversation soon moves beyond Hollywood craftsmanship into far stranger territory. Todd describes real-world disguise assignments that went well outside conventional filmmaking, corroborates Brent’s memory that director Tobe Hooper spoke of a government arrangement involving Spielberg, and recalls unusual visitors to the Dark Skies production offices. He also opens up about a near-death experience and considers whether consciousness and alternate realities may be connected to the larger phenomenon. Finally, the man who knows how easily reality can be manufactured explains why even experts are increasingly fooled by AI—and asks the unsettling question at the heart of “Making and Faking Aliens”: if genuine proof of non-human intelligence finally appears, will any of us still be able to recognize it?

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What happens when two civilizations meet—and one possesses technology, power, and knowledge the other can barely comprehend? Bryce and Brent begin with The Twilight Zone’s unforgettable “To Serve Man” and Stephen Hawking’s warning that alien contact might resemble Columbus arriving in the Americas: not because the visitors are necessarily evil, but because encounters between unequal civilizations rarely end well for the less advanced society. Using Apocalypto, The New World, Arrival, and Apple TV+’s Chief of War as portals, they examine the curiosity, fear, mistranslation, trade, dependency, and conflict that can turn first contact into the ultimate culture clash.

The episode also features two extraordinary personal stories about how easily identity and intention can be misunderstood across cultural divides. Bryce recalls traveling deep into Borneo to scout locations among former headhunters, where a tribal chief proposed trading a night with his daughter for Bryce’s Indiana Jones-style hat—a situation that began as a funny travel anecdote but became one of the most frightening experiences of his life. Brent recounts researching a Chuck Norris movie in Israel, where he joined an unarmed vice cop on a drug bust, was mistaken by Bedouin elders for Chuck Norris himself, and nearly overdosed on ceremonial coffee intended to last an entire day.

At the center of the discussion is Arrival, Denis Villeneuve’s haunting story of a linguist attempting to communicate with visitors whose language transforms the human understanding of time. Bryce and Brent ask whether humanity’s first response to nonhuman intelligence will be curiosity or fear, diplomacy or military action—and whether we have learned anything from our own history of conquest and colonization. If contact is already unfolding, have decades of secrecy deprived humanity of the time it needs to understand what is happening, and can we prepare now for an encounter that may transform civilization forever?

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Fresh from taping an appearance with Dr. Phil and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Chris Mellon, Bryce brings Brent the behind-the-scenes story of the latest government UFO document release—officially known as “Tranche 4,” but perhaps better described as another UFO dump. Dr. Phil received an early look at the material, along with a handwritten message from President Trump telling him to “have some fun with this.” That unexpected detail raises a larger question: Is Dr. Phil being positioned as a trusted public voice who can help introduce Disclosure to a mainstream audience?

Bryce and Brent debate what a true global ambassador for Disclosure would need to be: credible, reassuring, internationally recognized, and somehow above today’s polarized politics. They consider politicians, journalists, filmmakers, and celebrities before arriving at one surprising choice—someone with the stature, warmth, and worldwide appeal to guide humanity through ontological shock. Listen to find out who they nominate.

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In this follow-up to “Missing Time It Was,” Bryce and Brent welcome documentary producer and filmmaker Dean Alioto, a longtime friend from Bryce’s UFO lunch club and a guest who lives at the exact intersection of Hollywood, UFOs, and experiencer testimony. Dean is the director of the new documentary The Experiencers: Full Disclosure, which takes the UAP conversation beyond lights in the sky and into the more difficult territory of abductions, contact, hybridization, screen memories, and the people who say the phenomenon has entered their lives directly. The conversation asks why the official world can now talk seriously about craft, pilots, and national security — but still struggles to face the human beings who say they have been taken, changed, warned, or contacted.

The episode’s centerpiece is an exclusive, never-before-aired excerpt from Dean’s interview with Travis Walton, the Arizona logger whose 1975 abduction case became one of the most famous in UFO history and inspired Fire in the Sky. In this clip, Walton reveals that he had an encounter as a child, long before his famous disappearance, raising a startling new question: was Travis a one-time abductee, or a lifelong experiencer whose 1975 ordeal was only the most public chapter of a much longer story? Bryce, who first reported on the Walton case as a young radio newsman, and Brent, who brings his own experiencer perspective, unpack what this revelation does to one of the most argued-over cases in ufology.

In the second half, the conversation turns to Alioto’s own strange place in UFO movie history as the creator of The McPherson Tape, the 1989 alien-abduction film that helped pioneer the found-footage genre before The Blair Witch Project made the form famous. Dean explains how his low-budget “War of the Worlds on videotape” became a cult object, how stripped-down versions were circulated as possible real evidence, and why he eventually had to publicly debunk his own movie. From there, the episode becomes pure Sound, Light & Frequency: does Hollywood borrow from the phenomenon, does the phenomenon borrow from Hollywood, or are both caught in the same uncanny feedback loop where fiction and testimony keep reshaping each other?

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The Man Who Fell to Earth has always been more than a cult science-fiction story. Walter Tevis first imagined Thomas Jerome Newton in his 1963 novel as an alien who comes to Earth to save his dying world, only to become trapped and broken by ours. Nicolas Roeg’s haunting 1976 film, starring David Bowie, transformed that idea into one of the great screen portraits of alienation — a visitor with superior knowledge who still cannot survive capitalism, addiction, surveillance, loneliness, and human appetite.

In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce and Brent follow the entire strange afterlife of the concept: the book, the Bowie film, the failed 1987 television pilot, Bowie’s late-stage theatrical work Lazarus, and the 2022 Showtime series that continues the story with Bill Nighy as an older Newton and Chiwetel Ejiofor as a new alien visitor named Faraday. Along the way, they ask why this one image keeps returning across generations: the brilliant but stranded being who walks among us, hiding in plain sight, desperate to get home.

This is not just a fan conversation about a beloved science-fiction classic. Bryce and Brent connect The Man Who Fell to Earth to David Bowie’s own reported UFO experiences, to the changing way audiences think about aliens living among us, and to the larger Sound, Light & Frequency question: has Hollywood simply reflected our fascination with alien contact, or has it helped prepare us to imagine that the impossible may already be here?

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On December 17, 2017 — the morning after The New York Times helped blow open the modern UAP era with its Nimitz/Tic Tac reporting — Bryce Zabel was in New Orleans when he turned his phone back on and found a message from Dan Aykroyd. That voicemail, saved for nearly a decade, becomes the portal into this episode: Aykroyd talking about Bryce’s Betty and Barney Hill screenplay, the role of psychiatrist Dr. Benjamin Simon, Steven Spielberg, and, in classic Aykroyd fashion, ending with a cliffhanger about a car that “they made disappear” in front of him. From there, Bryce and Brent step into one of the strangest intersections of UFO history, Hollywood storytelling, and cultural memory: alien abduction.

The episode focuses on two foundational cases — Betty and Barney Hill in 1961 and Travis Walton in 1975 — and asks whether film and television merely reflect the UFO phenomenon or help shape how people experience and remember it. Bryce and Brent walk through the Hills’ missing time, their hypnosis sessions with Dr. Simon, the Outer Limits “Bellero Shield” theory skeptics use to question their account, John Luttrell’s overlooked Boston Traveler reporting, The Interrupted Journey, Barney Hill’s surreal appearance on To Tell the Truth, and the 1975 NBC movie The UFO Incident. Then they pivot to Walton, whose reported abduction occurred only two weeks after The UFO Incident aired, raising the uncomfortable chicken-and-egg question that runs through the entire hour.

Finally, the conversation turns to Fire in the Sky, written by Bryce’s friend Tracey Tormé, and the way Hollywood transformed Walton’s reported experience into one of the most terrifying abduction sequences ever filmed — even though Walton says that is not what happened. For Bryce, this is not an abstract topic: he reported on Walton in real time as a young radio newsman, wrote the Hill case into the Dark Skies pilot with Brent, appeared as an on-camera expert in Discovery documentaries on both cases, and has spent years developing his own Betty and Barney Hill film, Missing Time. By the end, Brent’s own missing-time memory enters the conversation, and the episode lands on the larger question: if these early abduction stories really happened, what does that mean now — especially as Spielberg’s Disclosure Daybrings alien abduction back into the mainstream as something that may not be fiction at all?

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Sound, Light & Frequency has reached the halfway point of its first season, and the audience is growing fast. Thanks to recent appearances on The Why Files and American Alchemy — which together have been seen by more than one million viewers on YouTube in a single week, with likely as many more listening by podcast — Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman are welcoming a wave of new listeners and viewers into the investigation. So this week, they pause the ride just long enough to ask: what exactly is the case so far?

In “Hollywood/UFOs: The Case So Far,” Bryce and Brent look back at the strange road that began with Episode #1, “Party Crasher,” when a man claiming to be from the Office of Naval Intelligence crashed the Dark Skies premiere party, said he had already seen the unaired pilot, offered “the deal,” and left behind the mysterious “sound, light and frequency” formula. Since then, the series has moved through Spielberg, Sagan, Hangar 18, The Abyss, Men in Black, Close Encounters, government secrecy, Hollywood myth-making, personal encounters, and the question that keeps returning: has popular culture simply reflected the UFO mystery, or has it helped shape it?

For anyone just arriving, this episode will help get you on the same page. But Bryce and Brent still believe the best way to experience Sound, Light & Frequency is to start at the beginning with Episode #1, “Party Crasher,” and work forward in sequence. These episodes are evergreen, not dated news drops, and the story is designed as a journey — one that keeps widening, deepening, and getting stranger as the case unfolds.

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Steven Spielberg’s Disclosure Day has arrived with massive expectations, strong early box office, and a wave of polarized reaction from critics, audiences, and the UFO community. Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman watched the film twice — including Bryce’s Las Vegas screening with legendary UFO journalist George Knapp, followed by an IMAX screening in Austin with Jesse Michels — and came away with evolving, complicated reactions.

In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce and Brent do not review Disclosure Day as a conventional summer blockbuster. Instead, they examine it as Spielberg’s apparent “closing argument” on UFOs, aliens, secrecy, empathy, and the public’s right to know. What, if anything, is actually being disclosed? Why does the movie focus on private contractors, abducted “chosen” humans, alien avatars, Roswell, Jackie Gleason, and an elderly Gray called In Vivo 17? And what should we make of its final one-word message: “Listen”?

As Hollywood and real-world UAP events continue to blur together, Disclosure Day may not be the hard-cut revelation some hoped for, but it has undeniably pushed the conversation further into the mainstream. Bryce and Brent ask whether Spielberg is simply telling a story — or whether this film is another sign of the long, strange convergence between Hollywood, UFOs, and the truth that may no longer stay hidden.

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Few science-fiction stories have had a stranger afterlife than The War of the Worlds. H.G. Wells first launched his Martian invasion in the 19th century as a devastating reversal of empire: what if humanity was not the conqueror, but the conquered? What if something colder, smarter, and more technologically advanced looked at us the way powerful nations had looked at the people they considered beneath them?

In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman trace how Wells’ nightmare managed to invade three different centuries. In 1938, Orson Welles turned the story into a radio broadcast so convincing it became a modern media legend, moving the Martians from Victorian England to New Jersey and making the invasion feel like breaking news. In 1953, Hollywood reimagined the attack as a Cold War apocalypse in Technicolor, where science, faith, flying machines, and atomic anxiety collided on screen. Then, in 2005, Steven Spielberg brought the invasion into the 21st century, turning it into a story of terrorism, sirens, refugees, broken families, and the terrifying sense that the attack had already begun before anyone understood what was happening.

Bryce and Brent also bring the Mars obsession closer to home, with personal stories about the Red Planet’s hold on their own imaginations — from Bryce covering the first Viking lander as a young radio newsman to later writing and selling a screenplay about a Mars mission, known along the way as The Face. Because in science fiction, Mars is never just a place. It’s a screen we keep projecting ourselves onto.

From imperial guilt to radio panic to nuclear dread to post-9/11 trauma, War of the Worlds has never really been about Martians. It’s been about us — our fears, our arrogance, our vulnerability, and the awful possibility that we may not be at the top of the cosmic food chain after all.

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In “Deal or No Deal,” Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman move their investigation from personal testimony into corroboration. After weeks of telling the story of the Dark Skies premiere party, the mysterious man who claimed to be from Naval Intelligence, and the offer to trade inside UFO information for story cooperation, they bring in their first outside witness: filmmaker Brett Leonard, who says he experienced his own version of Hollywood’s strangest possible pitch meeting. For Bryce and Brent, this is no longer just a story they remember — it becomes part of a broader pattern.

The episode asks the question at the heart of Sound, Light & Frequency: were Hollywood creators ever approached, influenced, or guided by people claiming access to the real UFO secret? Leonard’s account opens the door to a larger conversation about disclosure, disinformation, myth-making, and manipulation — and whether “the deal” was a one-time anomaly or one example of a hidden relationship between entertainment and the intelligence world.

As the title suggests, “Deal or No Deal” is about choice: whether to engage, whether to believe, and whether to risk being used. Bryce and Brent revisit the strange terms of the alleged offer made to them during the Dark Skies era, then compare it to Leonard’s experience to ask what may have been happening behind the scenes as UFO mythology moved from classified rumor to mainstream entertainment.

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Cemetery at Midnight is the moment the Sound, Light & Frequency origin story moves from strange Hollywood anecdote into something far larger. After the mysterious J.C. crashed the Dark Skies premiere party claiming to be from the Office of Naval Intelligence, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman found themselves pulled into a second encounter — this time at their North Hollywood production offices, where J.C. arrived with a superior and an even more unsettling agenda. What had begun as a party-crasher story now became organized, deliberate, and impossible to easily dismiss. 

In this episode, Bryce and Brent recount being told that the Moon sits at the heart of UFO secrecy, and that the “secrets of the universe” may somehow involve sound, light, frequency — and a strange gold-like substance presented as a clue. From there, the conversation opens into 2001: A Space Odyssey, Apollo, Buzz Aldrin, hidden lunar history, and the enduring symbolic power of the Moon in both science fiction and real-world secrecy.

Then comes the proposal that gives the episode its title: a midnight cemetery meeting with an “Admiral,” where the real deal would supposedly be put on the table. For Bryce and Brent, this was the turning point — the moment they had to decide whether they were being offered disclosure, disinformation, or something even more dangerous.

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This week on Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman finally open the file on a Hollywood story they have kept private and closely guarded for nearly three decades. It begins during the making of Dark Skies, their NBC alien-invasion series, at the exact moment when their dream job became a corporate pressure cooker. What followed was not just a normal network/studio battle over notes, wardrobe, or story points. It was a behind-the-scenes collision between UFO mythology, Hollywood power, franchise ambition, and two writers trying to protect the creative heart of their own series while realizing that forces far larger than they were had suddenly taken an interest.

For years, Bryce and Brent stayed quiet because the stakes were real, the players were powerful, and the consequences could have ended more than a television show. Now, as part of their commitment to tell the full Sound, Light & Frequency story with transparency, they lay out what happened chronologically, carefully, and with the receipts they still have. It’s inside-Hollywood drama at its strangest: aliens, secrecy, studio politics, men in black, and a story so wild it sounds like fiction — except it happened to them. And once you hear it, you’ll understand why it has never been told publicly before… until now.

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In the aftermath of the latest government UFO file release, Bryce and Brent decide to zig while everyone else is zagging. Rather than parsing another slow-drip document dump, they ask what may be waiting beyond the photos, videos, craft, crash retrievals, propulsion theories, and “show me the saucers” frustration. This episode turns from the nuts-and-bolts case for UFO reality toward the stranger territory of the woo factor — the part of the phenomenon that includes telepathy, synchronicity, remote viewing, out-of-body experiences, apparitions, orbs, time slips, prophetic dreams, poltergeists, cryptids, hitchhiker effects, and the unsettling possibility that the phenomenon may respond when we pay attention to it. 

Using H.P. Lovecraft, Charles Fort, Jacques Vallée, John Keel, The Mothman Prophecies, Skinwalker Ranch, and a shelf full of deeply weird movies as portals, Bryce and Brent explore whether aliens, the paranormal, and the afterlife may not be separate mysteries at all. Brent lays out his theory that consciousness, energy, sound, light, and frequency may be the connective tissue between them, while Bryce recalls his own eerie Mothman Prophecies encounter in an Agoura Hills parking lot, when a menacing stranger in a long black duster walked past him and his young son carrying the exact obscure book Brent had just urged him to read.

Then the episode goes intensely personal. Brent describes a lifetime of impossible-to-file experiences, including witnessing six strangers die violently in front of him, a death outside the Dark Skies production offices that seemed to involve a soul or life-force passing through him, and a terrifying daylight bedroom attack by an Old Hag/Witch Rider entity that he insists was not sleep paralysis. Bryce adds his own uncanny “power of three” story from writing A.D. After Disclosure with Richard Dolan, before the conversation widens to Twin Peaks, Phenomenon, Picnic at Hanging Rock, Annihilation, Solaris, Coherence, The Nines, and A Ghost Story. The result is one of the show’s strangest and most revealing hours: an argument that the UFO mystery may not only be about what flies above us, but what looks back through consciousness itself.

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Steven Spielberg is 79—turning 80 the week before Christmas—and we’re marking the moment with our first-ever guest: Ernest Cline, author of Ready Player One, the book Spielberg loved enough to turn into a movie. Together, we’re looking straight at Spielberg’s return to UFO storytelling with Disclosure Day, opening June 12—a film he teased at CinemaCon with a line that feels like a dare: “I believe this movie is going to answer questions and this movie is going to cause a lot of people to ask a lot of questions. All you need to get from beginning to end is a seat belt.”

From there, the episode becomes a three-way conversation: Bryce lays out the big question—after 30+ projects involving alien contact and non-human intelligence, is Disclosure Day Spielberg’s “closing argument,” and what does that even mean? Brent pushes the pattern-recognition angle, arguing that Spielberg’s contact stories track the cultural temperature of the moment—wonder, fear, paranoia, secrecy—and that Disclosure Day is arriving at a time when the public is finally ready to ask harder questions. And Ernie brings the inside perspective: what it’s like to collaborate with Spielberg up close, why his curiosity about the unknown feels genuine, and why—whether this new film is “truth,” “fiction,” or something in between—Spielberg may be the one filmmaker who can make the entire world lean forward at the same time and say: Okay… so what now?

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What happens when the Roswell crash, the Kennedy years, and Hollywood storytelling all collide? In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce and Brent use the Showtime Roswell film as their portal into one of America’s most enduring mysteries: what really happened in New Mexico in 1947, and how that event may have echoed all the way into the Camelot era. They revisit how their own NBC series Dark Skies boldly fused JFK and UFO lore in what Bryce calls “an atom collider of conspiracy,” asking whether history’s most famous secrets may be more connected than we’ve been told.

Along the way, the hosts share a terrific personal JFK-and-Marilyn Monroe story from inside old Hollywood circles, examine why Roswell continues to grip the culture nearly eighty years later, and wander into some modern mystery-making as Brent casts a skeptical eye toward CERN and today’s scientific gatekeepers. It’s an episode about crashed saucers, presidential shadows, pop culture, and the strange way the past keeps refusing to stay buried.

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During prep for Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman are digging through old Dark Skies files when they stumble on two artifacts they’d almost forgotten existed—objects so specific, and so unsettling, that they instantly revive a feeling they thought they’d outgrown: paranoia. Not the famous envelope. Not the party-crasher story. Something else. Something that arrives at exactly the wrong moment in their lives—right as a network series is being born—and seems to speak in a voice that doesn’t feel like fandom at all. Thirty years later, rediscovered in a file drawer, it still lands like a cold hand on the neck.

To make sense of what they’ve found, Bryce and Brent take a sideways detour into the eerie Amazon cult favorite The Vast of Night, a film built out of sound, light, and frequency—and out of the creeping dread that comes when an ordinary channel suddenly carries an impossible message. If you’ve ever felt your brain “tune” itself toward the unknown—listening too closely, replaying a moment, wondering who else might be listening—this is the exact mood they’re living in again, right now.

And then the story turns: because whatever these artifacts are, there are two of them, they arrive days apart, and they don’t just unsettle Bryce and Brent—they seem to change the terms of the relationship, as if someone is watching from the edge of the frame and wants them to know it. Who sent them? Why? And what does it mean that the message waited thirty years to come back into their hands? Tune in to find out what Bryce and Brent uncovered—and why it still gets under their skin.

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In “Majic Kingdom,” Bryce and Brent ask an uncomfortably fun question: why does Disney keep showing up in the UFO story? Bryce starts with the modern reality—Disney isn’t a historical footnote, it’s the current epicenter of alien storytelling, “industrializing” non-human intelligence across Disney+ through Marvel, Star Wars, and the Fox-era franchises in its orbit. From there, they rewind to 1953’s CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel and its blunt talk about “training” and “debunking,” including the suggestion to use television and motion pictures and explicitly naming Disney as a partner. The episode then dives into the “two 1995 whoppers”: the wildly pro-UFO Tomorrowland lobby film Alien Encounters from New Tomorrowland (with lines that sound like a government briefing) and a two-week Disney UFO conference that flew in major speakers… yet apparently drew an audience of only about a dozen because Disney didn’t promote it at all, raising the question: what was it really for?

Then Bryce opens a personal Hollywood door: his mentor Bill Asher—TV comedy legend who unexpectedly directed the 1957 Cold War saucer morality play The 27th Day, built around abductees from rival nations handed world-ending capsules and forced into an “if they push first, do we?” dilemma. Asher’s Rat Pack proximity becomes more than name-dropping when Bryce recounts Bill’s firsthand JFK/Marilyn Monroe story: a July 1960 party at Peter Lawford’splace, JFK and Marilyn disappearing to the pool house for hours, returning with Marilyn wearing JFK’s shirt, and later JFK—drunk—stopping traffic on PCH shouting he’s going to be President, with Bill dispatched to haul him back inside before it hit the papers. Layered on top is the UFO whisper: Bill’s account of Sammy Davis Jr. describing “small silver discs” that hovered, darted, and then—Bill’s word—“poof!” vanished.

Finally, the episode lands on one of the strangest broadcast moments in UFO history: Major Donald Keyhoe on CBS’s Armstrong Circle Theatre in 1958, starting to “disclose” something never disclosed—only to have his mic cut while the camera stayed on him, leaving America watching his lips move in silence. Bryce reads what Keyhoe later said he’d been about to reveal—claims of working with a congressional committee on official secrecy and that open hearings would prove UFOs are “real… under intelligent control”—and then shares CBS’s chilling justification: the program had been “carefully cleared for security reasons,” and the network had to enforce “predetermined security standards.” It’s a perfect capstone for an episode about Disney, narrative power, and the eternal question: when it comes to UFOs, who gets to tell the story—and who gets to turn the sound off?

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In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman dig into the true origins of UFO storytelling in Hollywood, using The Day the Earth Stood Still as a gateway—but quickly expanding the conversation into the earliest days of flying saucer cinema. They trace the genre back to the little-known film Flying Saucer, whose director controversially claimed to be using real footage, blurring the line between fiction and reality right from the start. From there, the discussion moves into the cultural shockwaves of the early 1950s, including the famous Washington, D.C. overflights of 1952, and how that very real moment of national anxiety echoed through films like The War of the Worlds and The Thing from Another World. As Bryce and Brent point out, these weren’t just monster movies—they were reflections of a society trying to process the possibility that something unknown might already be here.

Along the way, the episode takes on the kind of personal, unpredictable turns that define the series. Bryce shares a “Wonder Years”-style story from his childhood, where basement magazine skirmishes led him to his first encounter with the famous McMinnville UFO photos—taken just miles from where he grew up—and sparked a lifelong fascination. Brent, in turn, reveals a far more recent and unsettling connection: his own daughter quietly experienced a UFO sighting years ago, only choosing to share it with him much later. These stories feed directly into a broader conversation about ontological shock—what happens when people confront something that doesn’t fit their understanding of reality—and how both Hollywood and real life struggle to process it.

The episode also leans into the fun and friction of Bryce and Brent’s dynamic, including a spirited disagreement over the merits of the 2008 remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still. But beneath that debate is a deeper question that runs throughout the hour: were these films simply products of their time, or part of a longer continuum of storytelling that has been preparing us—intentionally or not—for the idea of contact? By the end, Days the Earth Stood Still becomes less about a single movie and more about a series of moments—on screen and off—where reality and imagination begin to blur, and where the biggest question of all keeps resurfacing: what if the story we’ve been watching for decades isn’t just a story?

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In “Cover of Fiction,” Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman explore how Hollywood sometimes tells the truth most effectively when it’s disguised as entertainment—and why that might be the only way certain ideas can travel without detonating careers, institutions, or sanity. The episode starts with a chilling secondhand message Bryce says an investigative reporter received from multiple intelligence-community sources: if you really want to understand the phenomenon, watch the German series Dark… and pay attention to its grim nuclear future. From there, Bryce and Brent connect the show’s time-loop paranoia, wormholes, and determinism to modern UAP theories about time, “other realities,” and why disclosure might be both too destabilizing and too complicated to drop in one clean press conference.

Then the episode turns personal—and uncanny. Bryce revisits how his 1993 Syfy thriller Official Denial became a kind of “greatest hits” of ufology (Majestic, crash retrievals, time-travel implications), and how the “cover of fiction” idea boomeranged back into real life through the infamous John Loengard letter and the Dark Skies mythology that followed. The rabbit hole deepens with Whitley Strieber’s Communion—including director Philippe Mora’s startling account of being questioned mid-flight by a man flashing a Defense Intelligence Agency badge. And just when the implications start to feel genuinely unsettling, Bryce lands the episode with a graceful reminder that even the hardest truths can be made survivable.

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Using James Cameron’s The Abyss as a springboard, this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency dives beneath the surface of the UFO mystery to explore the strange and increasingly serious world of USOs—Unidentified Submerged Objects. Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman trace the connection between Hollywood’s long fascination with underwater unknowns and the growing real-world evidence that some anomalous craft may move seamlessly through oceans, lakes, and rivers as easily as they move through the sky. Along the way, they connect classic and modern screen stories—from The Abyss to Atlantis: The Lost Empire and beyond—to the deeper question of whether Non-Human Intelligence may have been hiding in Earth’s last great frontier all along. 

The episode also brings the mystery closer to home with two stories that includes the host’s wives. First, Brent shares the story of seeing an unidentified object plunge into the water near Vancouver Island, with his wife as a witness, then Bryce reflects on his own creative connection to the enduring Atlantis myth when he and his wife were the original writers on Disney’s Atlantis: The Lost Empire. Smart, eerie, and highly entertaining, “Staring into the Abyss” uses movies and television as a portal into one of the most unsettling possibilities in the entire UAP conversation: that whatever is out there may not only be above us—but deep below us as well. 

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In this episode of Sound, Light & Frequency, Bryce and Brent take on Contact (1997), Carl Sagan’s beautiful, brainy, and decidedly UFO-free journey into alien possibility. But beneath the film’s awe, wonder, and cosmic longing lies a more provocative question: what did Sagan really think about the mystery of contact — and was there more going on beneath his public skepticism than most people realize? Using the film as a springboard, the hosts explore the strange space where science, belief, Hollywood, and hidden history all seem to overlap.

This episode also carries an unexpected personal edge. Bryce recalls his own face-to-face encounter with Sagan after a live television appearance, and he and Brent reflect on why the famed astronomer later found his way into the mythology of Dark Skies. Along the way, they touch on the long and complicated road that brought Contact to the screen, the emotional legacy Sagan left behind, and one of the most famous quotations he never actually said. Thoughtful, surprising, and just a little subversive, “Sagan Makes Contact” looks at one of popular culture’s most revered science storytellers from a distinctly Sound, Light & Frequency point of view.

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For forty-four years, Brent Friedman has carried a story he has never fully told in public. A few fragments slipped out here and there, but never the names, never the full context, and never the larger implication of what it all meant. In this episode, that changes. Brent finally revisits a startling conversation from the summer of 1981, when an older family friend with extraordinary government access shared something so unsettling it stayed with Brent for the rest of his life. It was the kind of moment that sounds impossible — until you hear the details — and the kind of confidence given only because the speaker believed no one would ever believe it.

That same year, the scrappy UFO thriller Hangar 18 was floating provocative ideas into the culture long before most people were ready to take them seriously. Bryce and Brent use the film as a portal into a bigger conversation about secrecy, storytelling, and the uneasy space where Hollywood and hidden history may overlap. As Brent tells his account in full for the first time, Bryce adds new pieces that don’t close the case so much as deepen it — and together they point toward the central question behind Sound, Light & Frequency: what if movies and television weren’t just reflecting the mystery, but helping us live with it?

Hosted by Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman.

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Sound, Light & Frequency is produced by Stellar Productions. Executive Producers are Bryce Zabel, Brent Friedman, Nick Johnson, and Jackie Zabel. 

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In “Presidents' Club,” recent headlines about Obama and Trump circling the alien/UFO question become a launchpad—not for breaking-news punditry, but for what Sound, Light & Frequency does best: following the secret thread between Washington and Hollywood. Bryce and Brent start with Obama’s very movie-ready riff about aliens, Area 51, and the possibility of a conspiracy “hiding it from the president of the United States”—and then immediately ask the real question: who knows more about UFOs, the presidents, or the screenwriters? 

From there, the episode dives straight into the ultimate “president meets ET” portal film: Independence Day—where President Whitmore isn’t read in at all, until his Secretary of Defense leans in with the immortal understatement: “Mr. President, that may not be entirely accurate.” 

Along the way, you’ll hear how the Pentagon almostcooperated with the movie—right up until two forbidden words showed up in the script: Area 51. And yes, Bryce and Brent relive the goosebump factor of Whitmore’s speech (“we will not go quietly into that night…”)—because if Disclosure ever goes public, that’s the kind of voice you’d want at the microphone. 

Then it gets delightfully weird in the best way: the guys trace “Area 51 on screen” back to Spielberg’s Raiders coda (Hangar 51!), recreate the behind-the-scenes story of Independence Day being screened at the White House (yes, thatWhite House blowing up…while Bill Clinton watches with a bowl of popcorn), and bounce through other presidential-ET pop culture detours like Mars Attacks! and its dark punchline politics. 

Finally, “Presidents' Club” widens the lens to the real-world presidential UFO hall of fame—Carter, Ford, Reagan, and more—plus the uncomfortable takeaway that the Commander-in-Chief may not be “read in” the way the public assumes. 

Bryce also shares a taste of what a presidential disclosure statement might actually sound like (from his work with Richard Dolan), before Brent tees up a chilling next-episode thread: a Reagan-era insider who claimed he had a higher clearance level than the President—and what that suggests about how secrets stay secret. 

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Steven Spielberg is Mr. Close Encounters—the filmmaker who arguably made UFOs “respectable” on screen, starting with Close Encounters of the Third Kind(and its three distinct cuts: 1977, 1980, 1998). In Episode 2, hosts Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman revisit the granddaddy of UFO cinema and explain why that movie still feels like it was beamed in from the phenomenon itself: the five-note language, the lights, the “orbs,” the stigma of reporting, and the obsessive pull that turns an ordinary guy into a human compass pointing straight at the truth. 

Then the episode pivots to the question that won’t go away: Did Spielberg ever get offered “the deal”—the same kind of covert approach Bryce and Brent say they received around Dark Skies? The guys lay out the folklore, the timing, and the circumstantial breadcrumbs, including Spielberg’s overt attempts to get cooperation (and the pushback he says he got), plus the larger “two factions” idea—some parts of government discouraging UFO talk while others may be using the cover of fiction to normalize it. 

And because this is Sound, Light & Frequency, it gets personal. Bryce shares what it’s like to be in Spielberg’s orbit—developing a UFO pilot for him, working on Taken, and sitting with Spielberg and Hanks on an Emmy night—yet still finding him a “man of mystery” on the UFO question. Brent brings the episode’s most hair-raising anecdote: what Dark Skies director Tobe Hooper once told him during a crop-circle scout—an offhand, no-BS story suggesting Spielberg had been approached and briefed. Hooper isn’t here to confirm it, but Brent and Bryce explain why they take the memory seriously. 
Finally, the guys drop the episode’s ultimate rabbit hole: Serpo—the rumored “exchange” story that sounds eerily adjacent to the film’s ending. Coincidence? Reverse-inspiration? Or something stranger, where the line between history and Hollywood gets fuzzy by design? Either way, “Mr. Close Encounters” is a smart, funny, deep dive into why Spielberg sits at the center of UFO pop culture—and why his “truth-to-fiction” ratio still haunts the conversation. 

Hosted by Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman.

Find us on iHeartPodcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Visit us at SoundLightFrequency.com 

Sound, Light & Frequency is produced by Stellar Productions. Executive Producers are Bryce Zabel, Brent Friedman, Nick Johnson, and Jackie Zabel. 

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At the Hollywood premiere party for the NBC series Dark Skies in the late 90s, a stranger—“J.C.”—crashed the celebration and claimed he was sent by the Office of Naval Intelligence. He offered the series creators Bryce Zabel and Brent Friedman a chilling bargain: help “slow-roll” UFO disclosure through their NBC series, and he’d provide insider truth—then he scribbled a cryptic “formula” on a bank envelope and called it “Sound, Light & Frequency,” the “secrets of the universe.”

In this debut episode, Bryce and Brent relive the night that became Ground Zero for their current active investigation into Hollywood, UAPs, and secrecy—and ask the question that still can’t be denied: who else in showbiz was offered “the deal”?

Our podcast focuses on the treatment of non-human intelligence and the UAP issue in movies and TV series going back to “War of the Worlds” and looking ahead to the upcoming Spielberg film “Disclosure Day.” 

Please follow us on X, and YouTube. Our website home base is SoundLightFrequency.com. 

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