Endless Thread

In 2022, freshmen at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill got a new neighbor: an owl. What wasn't clear was whether the owl was trying to befriend them, or catch them.

Sometimes the owl seemed to be chasing students. Other times, it seemed to come in peace. A popular campus Instagram account reported that a woman had actually raised the owl herself. After she was spotted feeding it, the owl sightings stopped, much to the disappointment of students who'd come to consider it as a sort of mascot. Where had the owl come from, and where did it go?

Endless Thread host Ben Brock Johnson and producer Grace Tatter talk about how the owl gained online campus fame, and get a surprise update from the person who knows the owl best.

Show notes

Grab your telescopes because this week on Endless Thread Ben and NPR Short Wave host Emily Kwong take us down two science-related internet wormholes. First, Emily introduces us to the intergalactic world of astronaut fan fiction, starring the crew of the 2026 Artemis II moon mission. Then, Ben takes us through the r/Science discourse on a new LiDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) study mapping an ancient Amazonian civilization. Show notes:

The 190 passengers of a United Airlines flight from Newark, New Jersey to Palma de Mallorca, Spain had settled into their seats for their overnight flight when the captain gave an announcement: everyone had to turn off their Bluetooth devices — or he was going to turn around the plane. This confounded passengers, because Bluetooth is safe for airplanes. It stays enabled when devices are on airplane mode. United even encourages using Bluetooth headphones to connect to in-flight entertainment. What was going on? The flight crew couldn't say. So the passengers took to...where else? Reddit. Show notes:

The brand Fruit of the Loom is almost ubiquitous in the world of underwear and casual wear. You have likely seen its logo, if not on your own body, on store racks or at least in ads. Now, in your mind's eye, picture it. What do you see? For years, countless people have been taking to the internet to share their memory of the Fruit of the Loom logo. A lot of them have the same memory – a basket, rather, a cornucopia of fruit. But they're all wrong. At least, Fruit of the Loom claims that is has never had a cornucopia in its logo and there is little concrete evidence to suggest that the brand is lying. So what could be behind this collective misremembering? This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory embark on a quest for answers: Is the Fruit of the Loom cornucopia simply an example of the Mandela Effect (a pervasive mass-misremembering of a fact or event), or has someone pulled the woolen underwear over our eyes? Show notes:

This week on Endless Thread it's a producer takeover with Grace Tatter and Kalyani Saxena serving up some delicious online stories. First, Kalyani digs into why the internet is so hungry for perpetual stews (a stew that is simmered and added on to in perpetuity). Then, Grace dishes on a listener conundrum about whether salty Reddit posts are worse for us than sweet ones. Show notes:

Long before TikTok dances, there was the Dougie. In 2010, Cali Swag District’s “Teach Me How to Dougie” went worldwide, and for the decade-plus since, people have been trying to learn the viral moves. More than 15 years later, a Korean TikTok creator went viral for doing the Dougie… badly. He claimed to be learning how to do the Dougie day-by-day – but his moves were so stiff and awkward, viewers from around the world – including Endless Thread producer Kalyani Saxena — were suspicious. Was @JBStarMax faking being bad at the Dougie? Kalyani presents her investigation to Ben and Amory. Show notes:

Kurt Gödel was a genius mathematician and logician, considered by many scholars to be as influential as Aristotle. He was also buddies with fellow geniuses Albert Einstein and Oskar Morgenstern, the co-creator of Game Theory. In 1947, Gödel told Morgenstern and Einstein he had identified an inner contradiction in the U.S. Constitution while studying for his citizenship test: the type of loophole that could plunge the United States into a dictatorship not unlike the Nazi regime Gödel had escaped when he immigrated from Austria. So, what was the loophole? Over the years, everyone from Constitutional law scholars to laypeople on Reddit have wondered. Endless Thread plumbs the depths of Gödel's galaxy brain with the help of philosopher, writer and Gödel expert Rebecca Newberger Goldstein — and learns some surprising lessons about artificial intelligence, a German shorthand called Gabelsberger, and democracy along the way. Show notes:

Most of us know the internet isn't a particularly private place. Yet there's a certain feeling of anonymity that comes with sharing online — our words and stories mixed in with millions of others. It's easy to think no one is watching. But your data isn't just vulnerable to prying eyes. It's for sale. And the government is buying it up to keep a closer eye on you — and all of us. This week, hosts Amory and Ben take a chilling look at how our social media is used for surveillance with Dell Cameron, an investigative reporter with WIRED covering privacy and national security.

Sit back, relax and get cozy. As a matter of fact, why not put on your baggiest of clothes and burrow down in your snuggiest of blankets?  This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory are comfy-maxxing. They'll discuss how the internet is delivering comfort right now, including a look at delicious foods from childhood and an intriguing tip on how to sleep better at night. Show notes:

Try reading this description as fast as you can: Ben and Amory zoom through two internet stories connected to speed running, including a look at a mysterious object on Reddit and an online trend directed at the Church of Scientology. Show notes:

Some Internet trends are temporary, but eggs are forever. Today, host Ben Brock Johnson serves up a story about a recipe that, according to the people of r/pickled, can't be beat, and producer Kalyani Saxena egg-splores online discourse around Korean mayak eggs, and why it matters which creators get credit for their popularity. Show notes:

Of all the internet communities in all the world, you walked into ours. Hosts Ben and Amory pay homage to the magic of chance encounters with producer Grace Tatter. Together, they explore the ways in which the internet fuels random yet delightful meetings between strangers online, from a website where you can impersonate ChatGPT to Craigslist's beloved Missed Connections page. Show notes:

Comedian Ben Palmer set up a fake tip line for reporting immigrants in the United States suspected of not having legal status. He recorded the conversations, and things... got uncomfortable and, in some cases, disturbing. But for a lot of viewers, these calls were surprisingly funny. How does Ben Palmer withstand the awkwardness and maintain his deadpan delivery as he trolls unsuspecting Americans trying to get their neighbors deported? And how did he go from being your average stand-up comic, doing sets after his day job, to creating viral social commentary full-time? Show notes:

Introducing The Midnight Rebellion,a new climate fiction podcast from WBUR — a rollicking adventure to a flooded, robot-infested world where you choose what happens. When Joule Watts-Green steps into her mom’s mysterious machine, she’s swept off to a polluted city of tides. Streets are rivers, “tin-skins” shoot lightning, and everyone eats gooey Algae-Os. To get home, Joule must be brave, clever, and make friends. She may even discover how to save the world — with your help. Each chapter ends with a choice. YOU decide what’s next. This is Chapter 1. Triumph or failure, it’s up to you. Choose wisely.

This is Chapter 1 of The Midnight Rebellion.

Ben and Amory take a hike with producer Grace, following the digital trail of  "Ridiculoubs" — a mysterious climber who traverses the world's peaks in striking footwear. Then, Amory celebrates the beauty of daily life with the Dull Women's Club, a Facebook group with nearly 1.6 million members. Show notes:

What's your favorite color? If you ask the algorithm, the answer is probably beige. The  internet loves neutrals. Aesthetic coffee shop videos feature white walls and minimalist decor. Influencers film from houses decked out with all the beige fixings. When you shop online, you'll be presented with products in a wide range of bland colors — from eggshell, to taupe, to... slightly darker taupe. So where did all the color go? Hayley DeRoche, a librarian and writer known as SadBeige on Tiktok, has been watching this unfold for a while. Hosts Ben and Amory talk with Hayley about the internet's love affair with beige and discuss her new book “Dress Your Baby In Sage and Taupe: A Handbook for the Sad Beige Parent.”  Show notes:

When you think of rapper Afroman, chances are his early 2000s hit song "Because I Got High" is already playing in your mind. More than two decades later, his music has once again broken containment. Host Ben Brock Johnson and Producer Grace Tatter dig into how Afroman turned a police raid and defamation trial into another moment of internet virality. Show notes:

In this throwback from the Endless Thread archives, hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson revisit an episode from 2024.

In 2022, a TikTok creator who identifies herself as "Kala" began digging. What followed was an increasingly viral series of TikToks chronicling the efforts of Kala, who some on the internet dubbed "Tunnel Girl," as she excavated and constructed a tunnel system under her suburban home. Her more than half-million followers watched and weighed in with support, suggestions and, at times, concern. That is, until a stop-work order halted the project in its tracks.

Warning: This episode contains multitudes! Hosts Ben and Amory explore how viral clips of DOGE staffers' video depositions found a new life online after a judge temporarily ordered them removed. They also dabble in a Reddit thought exercise with a potentially dubious origin Show notes:

Maybe you can't judge books by their covers. But can you judge people by their books? Reddit's bookshelf detectives say yes. Producer Kalyani Saxena guides hosts Ben and Amory through the stacks and offers a picture of her own bookshelf to the Reddit detectives as tribute.

A woman sitting blissfully on a vibrating laundromat dryer. A faked pregnancy test to dump a bad boyfriend. In 2019, the internet was abuzz about bizarre ads for a mobile game called Lily's Garden. The ads were only about 15 seconds each, but they evoked a whole universe of drama amongst a cast of zany characters that inspired countless YouTube videos and copious internet chatter. The thing is... the story in the ads had almost nothing to do with the story in the game. In this episode of Endless Thread: creative differences, the wilderness of mobile games, and where the Lily's Garden game-world and the ad-world diverged. Show notes:

Some rare folks are born with the perfect music taste. But most of us have to look elsewhere for a tune that sparks a shoulder shimmy or two. Hosts Ben and Amory spend some time jamming to obscure music from Reddit. They also explore how a TikTok original becameDr. Pepper's catchy new jingle. And "baby, it's good and nice." Show notes:

In the 1980s, a moral panic swept across America. Parents, prosecutors, and talk show hosts became convinced that devil worshippers were hiding in plain sight, abusing children at daycares, performing ritualistic sacrifices, and corrupting the innocent.

Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About has a new podcast about this period of Satanic Panic called  The Devil You Know.She talks to Ben and Amory about the cultural forces that turned unfounded fears into a nationwide hysteria, and how would the Satanic Panic might have unfolded differently in today's  age of social media.

What temperature do you like your fruit? What is the correct way to peel a banana? This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory cherry pick a couple of the hottest fruit debates taking place on Reddit.

In 1970, a young biologist named David Mech published what could be the most consequential book on wolves ever written. At the time, The Wolf: The Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species, was the most complete collection of scientific knowledge on wolves money could buy, and it became best seller for Dave's publishers. But outside of the world of wolf biology, the book is also credited with unleashing a certain idea into our popular lexicon: The Alpha.

The thing is, Dave made a mistake – and the alpha wolf, doesn't exist.

This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory track down the origins of "the alpha," and whether this idea – which has been recanted by the very scientist who popularized it – has any legitimacy when talking about people.

Fast-and-cheap shipping is now foundational to the American way of life, thanks in large part to Amazon Prime. Still, when producer Grace Tatter sees a video of a man claiming that he's continuously ordering and returning an 110-pound anvil from Amazon with no repercussions from the tech giant, she has questions. Is this legit, or is it a Wile E. Coyote-level scheme? Unlike an anvil, the answer can't be found online. Show notes:

Endless Thread serves up two of Reddit's most absurd food sagas. First course: Chivegate, in which a Redditor vows to chop a cup of chives daily until the kitchen confidential subreddit declares perfection, only to be accused of fraud.  Second course: A Reddit user desperately seeking advice on how to quietly move 13 two-thousand-pound pallets of margarine. Show Notes:

Ben and Amory share two stories about some out-of-the-box internet trolling. First, Amory tries to untangle a web of rumors surrounding an unusual dish from New Zealand. Then, Ben takes us aboard Terri's Tourz, an alleged Everglade tourist attraction claiming to offer the nation's first ever tours of the South Florida Detention Center known as Alligator Alcatraz.

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now... again! Yes, we're revisiting our episode about the website for the 1996 movie "Space Jam," which is still up and functioning nearly 30 years later. Amory and Ben talk to the hilarious team behind this digital artifact and hear the unlikely story of its continued existence.

Show notes:

The final episode of Hidden Levels explores the story of SEGA developer Tez Okano and the bizarre, meta-game he created: Segagaga. Okano joined SEGA in 1992, witnessing firsthand the company's tumultuous experience in the "console wars" against Nintendo and Sony. In the mid-1990s, SEGA struggled to make hardware that kept up with its rivals. The SEGA CD, the 32X, and the Saturn were all commercial failures. For Okano and many developers at SEGA, the console wars were both an exciting time to be in the video game business but also an intense and stressful time. They worked long hours, slept at their desks, and faced relentless deadlines. And so Okano decided to turn the chaotic nature of his professional life into a low-budget, self-parodying game about making video games at SEGA. In Segagaga, the player is a young developer tasked with saving SEGA's market share from the rival DOGMA Corporation (a stand-in for Sony/PlayStation). The gameplay is a mix of a role-playing game (RPG) and a management simulator, where you recruit demoralized, mutant-like SEGA employees by convincing them to join your team for the lowest salary possible. The gameplay reflects the absurd reality of game development. Players can spend a long time creating an original, hit game or they can quickly make a bunch of trashy titles (or shovelware) that barely keeps the company afloat. Okano even told us that the insults characters used in "battles" were actual quotes he heard in the office. The game was finished in 2001, just as the highly anticipated Sony PlayStation 2 was effectively dooming SEGA's Dreamcast. As game journalist Simon Parkin notes, Segagaga was released only two weeks before SEGA exited the console business entirely. This timing transformed the game from a self-parody into a memorial for a dying era, inviting players to literally defeat SEGA's failed consoles as bosses. Though Okano’s bizarre proposal was initially met with laughter by executives, the game ultimately got made and, in a strange twist, benefited from the company's decision to stop making video game hardware. Even in the face of industry chaos, some creators simply can't help but pour their love and energy into making games.

Credits

Video games are arguably the antithesis of nature; highly constructed worlds, synthetic, inorganic. If you grew up gaming, you may recall grown-ups telling you to shut down the console, go outside, and touch some grass. These days, though, touching grass isn’t something you have to do outside. As gaming has grown into a 200 billion dollar industry, the boundary between screen and soil has muddied. New technologies and types of play are getting gamers ever-closer to the experience of real nature. And yet, in a kind of weird feedback loop, those same technologies and types of play meant to simulate nature are now changing the real thing in ways that could outlast us all.

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Dr. James "Butch" Rosser was a pioneer in minimally invasive surgery in the 1990s. When he credited his surgical skills to video games, people dismissed him. The prevailing narrative was that kids who played video games became killers, not doctors. So Butch set out on quest: to show how video games can help make better doctors. Show notes:

Credits

Machinima — a portmanteau of “machine” and “cinema” — refers to movies filmed inside video games. The art form had a renaissance in the 1990s, and many thought it had a future in Hollywood. Among the early pioneers were the New York animation collective the Ill Clan, who puppeteered characters in real-time inside the video game Quake, bypassing traditional animation rendering. This technique exploded into a cultural phenomenon through the 2000s with hits like Red vs. Blue, South Park’s Emmy-winning World of Warcraft episode, and This Spartan Life, a live talk show filmed inside Halo 2's unpredictable virtual world. However, machinima.com faced controversies and eventually shut down, erasing its archive and leaving many original artists sidelined. Today, machinima is experiencing a powerful resurgence in documentary filmmaking. Projects like Grand Theft Hamlet, filmed during the pandemic entirely within Grand Theft Auto 5, proved that sophisticated feature films could be created in active, real-time virtual environments. Award-winning documentaries like The Remarkable Life of Ibelin showcase the medium’s emotional depth and its potential for democratizing creativity. What started as a technical workaround has evolved into a legitimate art form that continues to redefine the meaning of movies, and games.

Credits:

Today, Stef Sanjati is a creator on YouTube with over half a million subscribers. Her content mostly focuses on her two greatest loves — makeup and gaming — often combining the two with her otherworldly video game-inspired beauty tutorials. Growing up in small-town Ontario, though, Stef was a quiet, introverted kid who was bullied a lot. For one thing, she looked different from her peers. Having been born with a rare genetic condition called Waardenburg Syndrome, Stef has several distinct physical features, including wide-set blue eyes and a natural streak of white hair. But there was something else that she didn’t quite have the words for back then – something she felt closest to while playing as her favorite avatar in World of Warcraft, the massively multiplayer online role-playing game by Blizzard Entertainment. That something else was that Stef is trans. Choosing your player is a near-ubiquitous experience in gaming. Whether it's picking from a stock of ready-made options in Mario Kart or carefully calibrating a custom avatar in World of Warcraft, a gamer's choice of character has a huge impact on the gaming experience. But when a gamer is given the chance to choose, or even build, a brand new identity outside of the one they experience every day, the potential impact goes far beyond simple gameplay.

Credits

Welcome to our all-new collaborative series, "Hidden Levels," in which we team up with 99% Invisible to explore how the world of video games has impacted the world beyond. We’ll dive deep into how games are made and designed, exploring everything from the history of the joystick to the faithful recreation of nature in digital spaces. Whether you are a lifelong gamer or have never picked up a controller, "Hidden Levels" uncovers how games have quietly changed culture, technology, and the way we see the world...starting with a '90s arcade classic. Developer Mark Turmell worked at Midway, which was known for iconic games like Space Invaders, Pac-Man, and Mortal Kombat. His creation of NBA Jam in 1993 pushed the company in a new direction. It debuted at the height of the Chicago Bulls' dynasty, aiming to capture the energy of professional basketball in a high-octane, over-the-top format. The game was a hit out of the gate, captivating players with its digitized graphics (with the heads of real NBA players) and fantasy gameplay where players could become "on fire." At the heart of the NBA Jam gaming experience was the voice of its announcer, Tim Kitzrow. Turmell and the game's sound team had realized they needed a voice that could match the game's energy and cut through the din of an arcade, without the budget for a professional NBA commentator. So they turned to Kitzrow, an improv comedian and journeyman actor, who was initially hired by Midway for pinball voiceovers — it was just a fun side gig. He had no idea that his work on NBA Jam would make such a lasting impact on the industry. Kitzrow modeled his energetic, flamboyant delivery on NBA announcer Marv Albert, infusing it with his own ad-libbed, short, and punchy catchphrases like "REJECTED!" and the game's most famous line, "Boomshakalaka!"—which was suggested by an artist and inspired by funk group Sly and the Family Stone. The game became a monumental hit, reportedly making $1 billion in quarters in its first year, with its catchphrases entering basketball vernacular. ***

Credits:

You've heard of the "Freshman 15"... how about the "DOGE 15"? This is how some federal employees have referred to the stress associated with the establishment of the Department of Government Efficiency back in January and the "restructurings, realignments, and reductions in force" that came with it, as announced in an email sent to nearly all federal employees with the subject line, "Fork in the Road." Federal workers have found community in the FedNews subreddit: "A vital, independent hub for U.S. federal employees to navigate the bureaucracy, protect our careers, and support one another." r/FedNews is our hub for this episode. Back in April, Amory and Ben spoke with three of its members: one of whom is still a federal employee, another who participated in the Deferred Resignation Program, and another who was laid off along with thousands of other probationary employees, only to be offered his job back. We hear their stories as the country faces another fork in the road: a government shutdown that the White House has said could result in further reductions in force — specifically of federal jobs that are "not consistent with the president's priorities." Show notes:

In 2020, Jenna Marbles — one of the most popular YouTube creators of all time —posted her last video. Five years later, her devoted fanbase still wonders: where is she, and is she okay? We investigate the mystery behind one of YouTube's biggest disappearances, and why people still care so much. Show notes:

In the past few years, videos from a new kind of camp have begun circulating the internet. They feature men participating in a variety of bizarre activities: from aggressively digging holes under floodlights, to collectively wailing in a pool of water. These are man camps, where men can pay up to $18,000 to undergo extreme boot-camp-like conditioning in the name of reclaiming their masculinity.

This week on Endless Thread, host Ben Brock Johnson and senior producer Dean Russell, dive into the past, present and future of man camps.

On this week's Endless Thread, host Ben Brock Johnson and producer Grace Tatter bring us two stories about the power of livestreams – one from the Coldplay concert box seats, and another from a notorious rat corridor in Brooklyn, NYC. Show notes:

Kristen Sotakoun (@notkahnjunior on TikTok) says she has always been 'the FBI of the friend group' – that person you can count on to dig up the juicy details on anyone's social media. It's a skillset that has earned her millions  upon millions of views on TikTok in a series she has dubbed 'consensual doxing.' In her videos, Kristen completes challenges from her viewers to find their birthdays, using only publicly posted information online. Kristen is now a handful of creators on TikTok who are making consensual doxing videos as educational content, encouraging viewers to think more deeply about what they post online, and where. On this week's Endless Thread, we dive into the world of consensual doxing, what it can teach us about our privacy, and host Ben Brock Johnson gets (consensually) doxed. Show notes:

If you feel like it's been raining a lot on the weekends this summer, you're not alone. A couple months ago, we noticed a thread on r/boston asking why? So, we enlisted the help of one of our WBUR colleagues, Climate and Environment Corespondent Barbara Moran to clear things up once and for all.

A picture's worth a thousand words, or in this case, a podcast episode. This week Ben and Amory bring two very different stories from Reddit about pictures on the internet. First – what legal rights do we have over our photos after posting them on Instagram? Then, Ben indoctrinates Amory to The Game. Show notes:

Jeffrey Ngo is from Hong Kong. He used to talk about politics all of the time with his friends in group chats and on social media, from casually sending memes, to planning protests. What happens to online speech when you're unsure how much the government is monitoring your speech, and what the repercussions will be if they don't like it? Show notes:

Men's fashion might seem like a niche topic. But people of all genders and sartorial sensibilities follow Derek Guy on X for his clothing takes... even if they're not quite sure how they found his page. Endless Thread talks to Derek about how he weaves together humor, history, cultural criticism, and political commentary to make fashion feel relevant to people who have never seriously considered it before. Show notes

At any given time, 110 people can tell you exactly where James Tatter is. Every single iPhone user has the Find My app on their phone, which allows them to share their location with friends and family. Increasingly, for young people like James, it's becoming also a form of social media. Endless Thread producer (and James's sister) Grace Tatter wanted to know how something that seems creepy to some people became so commonplace to others — and how it's affecting our relationships off the screen. Show notes: On the Grid: Surveillance as a Love Language (The Drift)

Dodgeball Shuttered By Google, Its Co-Creator Promises To Clone It (Business Insider)

Thinking Critically about Social Media (American Sociology Association)

Talking Tech with Apple's Senior Vice President of Services, Eddy Cue (SuperSaf)

The Impact of Location-Tracking Apps on Relationships (Psychology Today)

There are moments that define each of our lives. Some we can predict: graduations, marriages, births, death.  Others? Not so much. And in the year 2025, sometimes, if the stars align just so, you may find that moment explode online. That's what happened to 23-year-old Adrián Simancas. Last month, he was paddling the Straight of Magellan, with his father Dell, when the unimaginable happened: a humpback whale emerged from the water and engulfed him in its open mouth — and his father captured it all on video. Almost immediately, the video went viral. Simancas sat down with Endless Thread to discuss his whale tale, the deluge of attention that followed, and what he's learned from his intimate moment with nature. Show notes: 

"Should I be joking at a time like this?" That's the question then 33-year-old Brooke Eby asked herself when she uploaded her first piece of TikTok comedy in 2022, about being diagnosed with a terminal illness. Brooke's since built an audience of hundreds of thousands of people who are rooting for, and laughing with, her. Sometimes it gets weird. Brooke talks to Ben and Amory about how facing death changed her relationship with social media and online community.

Show notes:

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now! Yes, this episode is about the 1996 movie "Space Jam," starring NBA legend Michael Jordan and the Looney Tunes. Rather, it's about the website for "Space Jam," which is still up and functioning nearly 30 years later. Amory and Ben talk to the hilarious team behind this digital artifact and hear the unlikely story of its continued existence.

Show notes:

Hosted by Meghna Chakrabarti, On Point is a unique, curiosity-driven combination of original reporting, newsmaker interviews, first-person stories, and in-depth analysis, making the world more intelligible and humane. When the world is more complicated than ever, we aim to make sense of it together.

More than 900 billion webpages are preserved on The Wayback Machine, a history of humanity online. Now, copyright lawsuits could wipe it out.

Guests

Brewster Kahle, founder and director of the Internet Archive. Digital librarian and computer engineer.

James Grimmelmann, professor of digital and information law at Cornell Tech and Cornell Law School. Studies how laws regulating software affect freedom, wealth, and power.

In 2022, people around the world freaked out at the advent of ChatGPT, OpenAI's chatbot. In under three years, artificial intelligence has been incorporated almost everywhere in our online lives. But training the large language models, or LLMs, that power these AI assistants is hugely expensive. Or is it? Last month, a Chinese startup called DeepSeek released their own AI app for much less money, potentially with huge economic and geopolitical implications. Endless Thread hosts a rap battle to help you understand why these AI companies are beefing. Show notes: "Trying to get Deepseek to talk about 'Tank Man'" (Reddit)

"DeepSeek Doesn’t Want to Talk About Tiananmen Square. Here’s What to Know" (Bloomberg)

Sometimes, after a long day speaking English, former WBUR podcast fellow Cici Yu just wants to zone out and spend time on the internet where everyone is speaking her native language, Chinese. Her app of choice? Xiaohongshu, or RedNote. So, when Cici logged on recently to find a feed filled with English-speaking Americans, she was surprised. Show notes:

"The great social media migration: Sudden influx of US users to RedNote connects Chinese and Americans like never before" (CNN)

"Instagram and Facebook Blocked and Hid Abortion Pill Providers’ Posts" (The New York Times)