The Axe Files with David Axelrod

After decades in public office and a 2019 run for president focused on fighting climate change, Washington Governor Jay Inslee recently announced he would not seek reelection in 2024. Gov. Inlsee joined David to talk about where we are in tackling the climate crisis, moving away from a fossil fuel economy, the problems with social media, what he views as a lack of leadership in the Republican Party, and why he is optimistic about the climate future.

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Born in California to immigrant parents, Scott Galloway says that he’s the product of an America willing to invest in unremarkable people. While Scott has made a name for himself as an entrepreneur, author, professor, and outspoken podcast host, he’s endeared himself to audiences through his candor and vulnerability. Scott joined David to talk about what makes America unique, higher education and its moral short fallings, the benefits of immigration, the dangers of social media, problems with the tax code, and his belief that Donald Trump will drop out of the presidential race and make a plea deal.

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Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova grew up during the downfall of the Soviet Union. She spent much of her career helping rebuild Ukraine’s economy after the country became independent, working in the private sector before joining Ukraine’s Ministry of Finance. She was appointed Ambassador to the U.S. in 2021 in part to help strengthen economic ties, but her priorities quickly shifted after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022. Amb. Markarova joined David to talk about her upbringing and the difficulty and hope that came with Ukrainian independence, her view of President Zelensky, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and why this war in an existential threat to all who believe in democracy.

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Former US Deputy Attorney General and Attorney General for the Northern District of Georgia Sally Yates has been mostly quiet about the indictments facing former President Donald Trump—the man who fired her as Acting Attorney General just days after he took office. This week, Sally talked to David about the legal perils and “strong cases” against Trump, the idea of a two-tiered legal system, the importance of sticking to facts and truth, concerns over degradation of US institutions, and her recent investigation into allegations of abusive behavior and sexual misconduct in women’s soccer.

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Arthur Brooks has held many roles in his life: professional French horn player in Barcelona, leader of the American Enterprise Institute, and now a professor of happiness at Harvard. The author and social scientist has a new book on the subject, “Build the Life You Want,” co-authored with Oprah Winfrey, coming out in September 2023. Arthur joined David to talk about the science of happiness, the relationship between new technology and waves of populism, how America’s dignity gap influences its politics, and the need to rebuild human connection.

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John Podesta was looking forward to retirement when he got a call from the Biden administration asking him to serve as the senior adviser to the President for clean energy innovation and implementation. A long-time advocate for the environment in the nonprofit and political sectors, he decided to jump back into the fight. John talked to David about his childhood on the Northwest side of Chicago in a close knit family, how anti-Vietnam activism led to his involvement in politics, why he worries more about America today than he did in the 1960s, and his leadership role on environmental protection and climate during the Biden presidency.

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After seven years as the host of CNN’s “Inside Politics,” John King is stepping away from the anchor desk and returning to his reporter roots, traveling the country to talk to Americans across the political spectrum ahead of the 2024 presidential election. John joined David to talk about his start in journalism at the Associated Press and his move to television, his multiple sclerosis diagnosis and his decision to speak out about the disease, and the challenges of working in the news industry during the time of Trump.

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After graduating from Harvard Law School, Adrian Perkins decided to forgo the traditional job at a top-tier law firm, instead opting to return to his hometown of Shreveport, Louisiana as a candidate for mayor. After one term, punctuated by the Covid-19 pandemic, Perkins fell short in his reelection campaign, but he hasn't lost his dedication to his hometown. On the latest Axe Files, Adrian talked about his “superhero” mother, his time in the military, his tenure as mayor of Shreveport, what motivates his service, and his mission to inspire young people.

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As a child, Sen. Tammy Baldwin suffered a months-long illness, leaving her with a preexisting condition that made obtaining health insurance impossible. The experience inspired her to pursue public office, first locally from her home in Madison, Wisconsin, and later as a member of the U.S. Senate. Sen. Baldwin joined David to talk about healthcare, tackling the mental health and opioid abuse crises, GOP culture wars, and working across the aisle to pass the Respect for Marriage Act.

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Historian and writer Jon Meacham’s most recent book, “And There Was Light: Abraham Lincoln and the American Struggle,” dives deep into Lincoln and the why behind the actions of America’s 16th president, from personal to political. Jon joined David to talk about Lincoln’s anti-slavery roots, what Lincoln can teach us about the current political moment, the moral decisions we face as a country, and what qualities make a great American president.

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This week The Axe Files team is sharing an episode of CNN’s The Assignment with Audie Cornish. One year after Roe v Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision, we were wondering: what is happening to people caught up in the web of changing law? It's been a tumultuous and uncertain era for reproductive rights, so this week The Assignment checks in on the activists at the frontline defending women who are being criminally prosecuted under state laws that restrict or ban abortion. Amanda Allen, Senior Counsel and Director at the Lawyering Project, and Dana Sussman, Acting Executive Director at Pregnancy Justice, speak to Audie about their work in this post-Dobbs world.

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Lifelong Republican Bill Gates was working as a lawyer and serving on the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors in Arizona’s most populous county when the 2020 election upended his life. Maricopa County became a hub of the Stop the Steal movement, and Bill, who defended the safety and legitimacy of the election, became a top target. Bill joined David to talk about navigating vicious attacks from those within his own party, the toll it took on his mental health and that of his family, and his hopes for the future of the Republican Party.

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This week, we’re revisiting a 2018 interview with Vladimir Kara-Murza, a Russian opposition activist who was sentenced to 25 years in prison in April 2023 after speaking out against the war in Ukraine. Vladimir was just 10 years old during the Russian Democratic Revolution in 1991. Witnessing a revolution was a formative experience that led to a lifetime of pro-democracy activism. In 2018, Vladimir sat down with David to discuss Putin’s Russia, the importance of the Magnitsky Act and what it’s like to put his life on the line for democracy.

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Since leaving office in 2016, former President Barack Obama has been a careful observer of the ebbs and flows of democracy around the globe, speaking out on the subject and building coalitions through the Obama Foundation. President Obama joined David to talk about the state of democracy at home and abroad, how the economy and technological advances impact politics and polarization, the weaponization of the word woke, race, and his advice to the GOP.

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CNN’s Kaitlan Collins arrived at college as a chemistry major, but the die-hard Crimson Tide fan soon realized life in a science lab was not her calling. After scouring the university’s course book, she decided to give journalism a try. Now, at just 31 years old, she is about to take over anchor duties for the 9 p.m. hour on CNN. Kaitlan joined David to talk about how her upbringing in Prattville, Alabama informs her reporting, her path to becoming a White House correspondent in her mid-20s, her move from the Daily Caller to CNN, what it was like covering the Trump administration and her relationship with Donald Trump, and her new 9 p.m. show.

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As a child, Michael Wilbon was allowed to argue about sports and politics at the dinner table—as long as he backed up his point. That early training helped launch Michael into a distinguished career as a sportswriter, columnist, and co-host of ESPN’s “Pardon the Interruption.” Michael joined David to talk about growing up on Chicago’s South Side, joining the Washington Post in the afterglow of Watergate, the central role of sports figures in the civil rights movement, covering Michael Jordan, and his current favorites in the NBA.

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Arizona Senator Mark Kelly never planned to go into politics. But in the years after his wife, former Rep. Gabby Giffords, was shot in an assassination attempt, the former astronaut decided to put aside his space suit and run for office. Sen. Kelly joined David to talk about gun violence, moving forward in the wake of Gabby’s injury, immigration and the Arizona border, the debt ceiling, and the importance of believing in science.

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Former Fox News host Gretchen Carlson sued the network’s longtime boss Roger Ailes for sexual harassment in 2016, catapulting her into a broader fight for women’s rights. Since leaving Fox News, Gretchen has become a force in advocating for safer workplaces for women and other marginalized groups through her organization, Lift Our Voices, which has helped enact legislation banning forced arbitration and non-disclosure agreements. Gretchen joined David to talk about her early days as a violin prodigy, competing in Miss America as a Stanford undergrad, her decades in television news, suing Roger Ailes, and her mission to make it impossible to sweep workplace sexual misconduct under the rug.

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Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker has carved out a national profile as a staunch advocate for abortion rights and gun control, raising speculation last summer that a 2024 presidential run was in his future. While he confirmed he won’t take on President Joe Biden, Gov. Pritzker joined David to talk about governing through Covid-19, the rise in anti-Semitism and attacks on minorities, his views on immigration and gun violence, and why he can’t rule out an eventual presidential run.

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California Rep. Katie Porter is best known for wielding a whiteboard during congressional hearings, stumping CEOs and government officials on how their actions impact everyday Americans. As a single mother who grew up on a farm in Iowa, Rep. Porter has said she entered Congress with a different perspective than many of her colleagues on what exactly an everyday American is, inspiring her jump to politics. She joined David during a live recording to talk about her path from law professor to Congress member, her roots in Iowa politics, her passion for consumer protection issues, how she made the whiteboard famous, and her new book, “I Swear: Politics is Messier Than My Minivan.”

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Chicago mayor-elect Brandon Johnson started his campaign trailing in the polls with little name recognition among Chicago voters. But with the help of the Chicago Teachers Union, the former teacher and CTU organizer built a progressive movement, ultimately winning the mayor’s race. Mayor-elect Johnson joined David to talk about growing up as one of 10 children, his introduction to politics, making the shift from teaching to organizing, his philosophy on public safety and policing, and what he sees for Chicago’s future.

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Former Arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson recently announced he’s running for president in 2024. While Gov. Hutchinson has less name recognition than other Republican primary contenders—primarily\ Donald Trump—he hopes to draw a contrast between himself and other candidates by eschewing outrage and focusing instead on bringing back civility and traditional conservative values to the GOP. After serving in Congress and holding leadership roles at the Drug Enforcement Administration and Department of Homeland Security, Gov. Hutchinson hopes his track record will speak for itself. Gov. Hutchinson joined David to talk about growing up in rural Arkansas, his stance on abortion, why he thinks improving mental health is the best way to combat gun violence, why he is critical of Alvin Bragg's prosecutorial judgement, and why he believes Trump can’t win in 2024.

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From trying his hand as a monk at a monastery in Sri Lanka to reporting from Prague following the collapse of the Soviet Union, former reporter Neil King has traveled all over the world. In March 2021, he set out on a different kind of journey, walking from his home in Washington, D.C. to New York City. Along the way, he hoped to explore “a founding slice” of the country and take the pulse of present-day America. Neil joined David to talk about his decades as a reporter, his battle with esophageal cancer, the people he met and lessons he learned on his 26-day walk, and his new book, “American Ramble: A Walk of Memory and Renewal.”

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This week, we revisit a 2017 conversation with CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. She joined David in London to discuss growing up in Iran during the revolution, her experience covering the first Gulf War, her relationship with John F. Kennedy Jr., the refugee crisis, and much more.

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Theo Epstein made a name for himself in baseball by helping teams facing significant championship droughts, like the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs, capture World Series wins using data and analytics. He now works for Major League Baseball, where he helped develop new rules intended to move the game away from data-driven play and improve the flow and entertainment value of the game. For opening day, Theo talked with David about the new rules this baseball season, the impact they’ll have on players and fans, and why he believes they’ll help the game “get closer to the very best version of baseball.”

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CISA Director Jen Easterly got an early taste of government as a sixth grader when her class was featured in a commercial for then-presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. The ad never made it to air, but Director Easterly continued in public service. After spending decades in the Army and the private sector, Director Easterly now leads the U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, or CISA. As head of CISA, she works to protect against cyberattacks on everything from U.S. election infrastructure to systems Americans use every day, like water, schools, and hospitals. Director Easterly joined David to talk about what she believes makes a good leader, cyber threats from Russia and China, the potential downsides of A.I. and TikTok, and why cybersecurity needs to be a collaborative effort.

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Since childhood, journalist John Hendrickson has lived with a stutter: wrestling with it, searching for escapes from it, and working to accept it. John, who rose to national prominence after interviewing then-presidential candidate Joe Biden about his own stutter in 2019, recently wrote a book about his experiences and the science behind stuttering. John joined David to talk about living with a stutter, his work as a journalist, interviewing Biden, and reexamining his own relationship with his stutter in his book “Life on Delay: Making Peace with a Stutter.”

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In high school, Michael McFaul developed an interest in the Soviet Union that would eventually lead to him serving as US Ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014. Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year, McFaul emerged as a vocal supporter of Ukraine. McFaul joined David to talk about his work advising on sanctions against Russia, why he believes that the US should go all-in on military aid to Ukraine, how Russian President Vladimir Putin could claim victory, how much time Ukraine has to turn the tide of the war, and his skepticism that Putin will resort to using a nuclear weapon.

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Just days after he was sworn in to Congress, former GOP Rep. Peter Meijer of Michigan watched in horror as protestors stormed the Capitol. Deeply unsettled by the experience, he voted to impeach President Trump, opening a lane for a Trump-endorsed primary opponent to defeat Meijer in 2022. He joined David to talk about his Michigan-famous family name, his time in the military, the importance of defending Ukraine, his decision to vote to impeach Trump, the importance of long-term thinking in politics, and a potential Senate run.

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Beto O’Rourke shot to national prominence in 2018 when he narrowly lost to Texas Sen. Ted Cruz in an unexpectedly close election. Two years later, he ran in the Democratic presidential primary, and, in 2022, he ran for governor of Texas. While the three back-to-back races were unsuccessful, they generated enthusiasm and energy and at times helped reinvigorate the Democratic Party in Texas. Beto joined David to talk about the political fight in Texas, raising three children while running three successive campaigns, why he decided to run for governor, gun violence and its impact on young voters, immigration, and what he sees for his political future.

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As a Jewish kid growing up in Duluth, Minnesota, Amb. Tom Nides didn’t plan to be a diplomat some day. After a career spanning roles in government and business, he took on the position of US ambassador to Israel in 2021. Following a year of relative calm, Nides now finds himself weathering a tumultuous few months under a new Israeli government—the most right-wing in the country’s history. He joined David to talk about the US’s “unbreakable bond” with Israel, the state of Israeli democracy, the chain of violence between Israelis and Palestinians, and the prospects for a two-state solution.

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Growing up with severe dyslexia, California Governor Gavin Newsom questioned his own intelligence and path forward. But things began coming together in college when he embraced his interest in politics. Gov. Newsom joined David to talk about his childhood, the tension of growing up with little money while being deeply connected to the Bay Area’s elite, approving same-sex marriage in San Francisco as mayor, gun violence, his disdain for Gov. Ron DeSantis, and why he thinks the Democrats need to stop playing defense.

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A chance meeting with his Congressman during a high school football banquet set Tim Ryan on a path to politics, from a seat in the Ohio Senate, to two decades in the U.S. House of Representatives, to a bid for U.S. Senate in 2022. He joined David to talk about growing up in working class Ohio and how the Democrats lost touch with blue-collar America, the state of the federal government and the need for reform, the House of Representatives under Rep. Kevin McCarthy’s leadership, and what his own political future holds.

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Secretary of State Antony Blinken had a circuitous path to government, working in journalism, law, and the movies before landing a job in the Clinton administration. He still has varied interests; while he spends his days meeting with world leaders, guitar fans can also find him on Spotify. Secretary Blinken joined David before a live audience at the University of Chicago to talk about Russia’s war on Ukraine, America’s relationship with China, Afghanistan, the state of the world, and the power of public service.

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When poet Amanda Gorman was 5 years old, she was already in the habit of waking up before dawn to write; her mother paid her a quarter each morning she stayed in bed past 6 a.m. Poetry became Amanda’s outlet for exploring history and her own experiences. Her talents have taken her from serving as the first National Youth Poet Laureate to reciting her poem, “The Hill We Climb,” at President Joe Biden’s inauguration. Amanda joined David to talk about her mother’s influence, working through her childhood speech impediment, the importance of representation in poetry and literature, writing for the inauguration following the Jan. 6 attacks on the Capitol, poetry as the language of the people, and her presidential aspirations.

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Although New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu has said that he was a shy child, he has no problem with the spotlight now; there is widespread speculation that he will run for president in 2024. As a popular Republican governor in a purple state, some say Gov. Sununu has the right playbook for putting a Republican back in the White House, while his detractors say he doesn’t stand a chance against former President Donald Trump’s base. Sununu joined David to talk about the power of local government, where he believes President Joe Biden has failed, his thoughts on Trump and his 2024 chances, his stance on abortion, New Hampshire’s place on the primary calendar, and when the public can expect a decision from him on a presidential run.

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In 2022, Democrats in Michigan made history when they took control of state government for the first time in 40 years. At the top of the ticket was Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who won reelection by nearly 11 percentage points. Governor Whitmer joined David to discuss the role reproductive rights played in her campaign, the dangers facing public servants today and the sacrifices her family has made, governing through the COVID-19 pandemic, and the priorities for her second term in office.   

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This week The Axe Files team is sharing an episode of CNN’s The Assignment with Audie Cornish. Each week Audie pulls listeners out of their digital echo chambers to hear from the people who actually live the headlines. From the sex work economy to the battle over what’s taught in classrooms, no topic is off the table. For this episode, Audie talks to two parent activists turned elected school board officials about what motivated them to run for office and the changes they hope to make while in power.

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After 54 years at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Dr. Anthony Fauci will step down from his role at the end of 2022. While he has worked on a spectrum of infectious diseases, including HIV/AIDS, he rose to national prominence recently for his work on the Covid-19 pandemic. Considered at times to be a hero to the left and a villain to the right, Dr. Fauci talked to David about his career at NIH, what he sees as social media’s deleterious impact on science, fighting conspiracy theories, threats against his family, the discomfort of contradicting the president of the United States, and the state of Covid-19 today.

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When Maryland Governor-elect Wes Moore was 3 years old, he watched his father collapse in front of him. Losing his father at a young age greatly impacted Moore’s life. He acted out at school, was sent to a military academy by his mother, and later confronted what he called the inequitable policies influencing his life, including his father’s inability to receive adequate medical care. Governor-elect Moore talked with David about his path to public service and gubernatorial victory, his time serving in Afghanistan and studying at Oxford, how leadership transformed his outlook on his capabilities and himself, his governing philosophy, and the future of Maryland.

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Former Vice President Mike Pence has centered his career around his Christian faith and conservative beliefs. Most recently, he spent four years serving alongside former President Donald Trump, who has been criticized for his brash and confrontational demeanor. While the two have different political styles, Pence remained steadfastly loyal to Trump until January 6, 2021, when Pence refused to reject the results of the 2020 election. Pence spoke to David about the role of his faith in his political career, why election denial was not a winning strategy in the 2022 midterms, public safety and the Second Amendment, his role at the Capitol on January 6, and his views on 2024.

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This Thanksgiving, we're revisiting a conversation with Anderson Cooper from October 2021. Anderson is now a well-known CNN anchor and host of the new podcast, All There Is with Anderson Cooper, but he got his start in journalism armed with just a camcorder and a fake press pass. Anderson is also part of the storied Vanderbilt family, which he wrote about in the book Vanderbilt: The Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty. He joined David to talk about the corrosive power of money and how its effects can ripple through generations, his mother’s life and her capacity for overcoming trauma, losing his father at 10 years old, and how he hopes his book teaches his children to feel connected to something beyond themselves.

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Just months after graduating from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology with a degree in engineering, California Senator Alex Padilla was drawn to politics, outraged by a state ballot initiative regarding undocumented immigrants. He soon became the youngest Los Angeles City Council president and is now the first Latino senator from California. Sen. Padilla joined David to talk about the 2022 midterms, election deniers and voter suppression, policing and public safety, his relationship with California Governor Gavin Newsom, the diversity of the Latino community, and his dedication to immigration reform.

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Rusty Bowers, Speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, is a Mormon and conservative Republican. He is also a sculptor and painter with a love of the outdoors who likes to sketch satirical drawings of his fellow legislators. After years in the state legislature, Speaker Bowers rose to national prominence when, as he said, he chose his oath to the Constitution over pressure from Donald Trump and his allies to overturn Arizona's results in the 2020 presidential election. Speaker Bowers joined David to talk about his lifelong passion for art, how working with the Indigenous people of Mexico’s Copper Canyon changed his life, election deniers and what happens if they win elected office, the current state of the Arizona GOP, and facing off against Trump.

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Journalist Major Garrett caught the journalism bug early, chasing fire trucks down the street in search of a story as a kid. He has since spent his career as a Congressional and White House correspondent, most recently at CBS. Major joined David to talk about the upcoming midterm elections, what he believes is hurting Biden and Democratic candidates, the state of democracy, and his new book written with David Becker debunking the myth that the 2020 election was stolen, “The Big Truth: Upholding Democracy in the Age of the Big Lie.”

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In the span of 15 months, Rep. Liz Cheney went from House GOP conference chair to losing her primary by more than 30 points. Her fall within the Republican Party began with her vote to impeach President Donald Trump after the January 6 attack on the Capitol and accelerated when she joined the House committee investigating the events of that day. Rep. Cheney joined David to talk about Trump and his supporters in Congress, her work on the Jan. 6 committee, how the threats to American democracy go beyond the ballot, and her hopes for the country’s political future.

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Journalist Maggie Haberman began covering Donald Trump as a reporter for the New York tabloids in the early 2000s. Now at The New York Times, Maggie rose to national prominence churning out scoops on the Trump White House. Maggie joined David to talk about her complex relationship with Trump, what she believes is Trump’s legacy, what a second Trump administration would look like, and her new book, “Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and theBreaking of America.”

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In high school, Cody Keenan wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. But a challenging college chemistry course led him to pursue a degree in political science instead. He got his start working in the mailroom for Sen. Ted Kennedy, eventually becoming chief speech writer for President Barack Obama. Cody joined David to talk about the challenges of speech writing, battling imposter syndrome, the joys and frustrations of working in politics, and a whirlwind 10 days chronicled in his new book, “Grace: President Obama and Ten Days in the Battle for America.”

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While in law school, former Alabama Senator Doug Jones skipped class to watch the trial of Robert Chambliss, convicted in 1977 for his role in the deadly 1963 Birmingham church bombing, which killed four Black girls. Decades later, as a US attorney, Jones successfully prosecuted two others involved in the attack. Doug joined David to talk about the state of the Democratic Party and why Alabama voters have turned their backs on Democrats, why curriculum that teaches America’s flaws demonstrates progress rather than failure, his thoughts on Biden’s political accomplishments and Trump’s legal troubles, and serving as Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s guide through her Senate confirmation.

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When journalist and author Beth Macy first pitched a book about the opioid crisis in 2014, her publisher and editor rejected the idea. But Beth kept following the story, publishing “Dopesick: Dealers, Doctors and the Drug Company that Addicted America” in 2018. The book has since been adapted into an Emmy Award-winning Hulu miniseries. Beth joined David to talk about her upbringing in Urbana, Ohio, how the loss of manufacturing jobs and opioid use intersect, the stigmatization of addiction, Trump’s appeal in former factory towns, her thoughts on the Sackler family of Purdue Pharma, and her new book, “Raising Lazarus: Hope, Justice, and the Future of the Overdose Crisis.”

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Chris Wallace spent 18 years at the helm of Fox News Sunday, surprising viewers when he announced his resignation on-air in December 2021. Now at CNN with a new show streaming on HBO Max, Wallace has admitted that the lies about the 2020 election and anti-media rhetoric at Fox influenced his decision to leave. He joined David to talk about interviewing Vladimir Putin and the war in Ukraine, how the media shifted under Trump, the state of the news business, how raising his kids led him to reflect on his own childhood, and his new show, Who’s Talking to Chris Wallace?

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Rep. Adam Kinzinger was one of just 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach former President Donald Trump following the January 6 insurrection. After deciding to not seek reelection in 2022, Rep. Kinzinger has spent his last months in office as a member of the January 6 Committee, investigating the events of that day. He joined David to talk about his work on the Committee, tribalism in politics and its negative effect on leaders, why he thinks the Mar-a-Lago search could spell trouble for Trump, and his predictions for the midterms.

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This week we’re sharing a conversation between Jon Favreau, host of Offline, a podcast from Crooked Media, and Ev Williams, co-founder and former CEO of Twitter. The two discuss Twitter’s early years, including the design decisions behind some of the app’s most important features. They dive into the promise of Twitter and attempt to make sense of what’s changed. Ev also talks about Twitter’s newest board member and largest shareholder, Elon Musk, and if Donald Trump should be allowed back on. Please note this conversation was recorded prior to Musk’s attempt to purchase Twitter.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

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This week The Axe Files team is sharing an episode of Hell & High Water with John Heilemann. This episode features a conversation with David Axelrod and was recorded in New York City in December 2021. Together they took a look back at the year in politics, from the Biden administration’s successes and mishaps, Covid-19, the polarization and paralysis in Washington, and Donald Trump’s continued stranglehold on the Republican Party. Axelrod reminisces about his storied career as a political reporter, Democratic strategist, and architect of Barack Obama's rise to the White House. Looking ahead to 2022, Axelrod lays out what he sees as the greatest challenges ahead for Democrats — and American democracy.

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In 2020, Alexis Ohanian, Co-Founder of Reddit & Founder of Seven Seven Six, broke ties with the $10 billion-dollar company he helped to build as an act of protest during the Black Lives Matter movement. In doing so, he stepped away from the business he’d known for most of his career, and instead decided to found a different kind of VC firm.

In this episode, Alexis tells Alex about the traumas he faced at the very start of his career, and how that has driven him towards the impact-focused mission he has today when it comes to 776, as well as how he approaches being as present as possible for both his family and his work.

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As a young boy, former Secretary of State and National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and his family escaped Nazi Germany; later, as a soldier with the US military, he helped liberate the Ahlem concentration camp, a searing, surreal moment for a Jewish immigrant. Both revered and controversial, Kissinger is best known as a towering foreign policy figure, guided by his belief in realpolitik. He joined David to talk about working with President Nixon, opening relations with China, the current state of the US-China relationship, how to end Russia’s war in Ukraine, and his new book, “Leadership: Six Studies in World Strategy.” 

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Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, testing the waters for a presidential run. In 2018, he shocked the political world when he ended his campaign for mayor of Kansas City to seek treatment for PTSD. He joined David to talk about falling in love with the Army, focusing on his career as a form of self-medication, trading presidential aspirations for personal healing, and his new book, “Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD.”

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At 15, musician John Legend wrote an essay proclaiming he would one day become a famous singer and use his platform to advance civil rights. His words ended up being particularly prescient; he has since spent his life pursuing dual paths of artistry and social justice. For the 500th episode of The Axe Files, John talks with David about his musical roots in the church, his consulting gig at Boston Consulting Group while waiting for his big break, his focus on fighting for criminal justice reform, his disgust over the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, and navigating the intersection of celebrity and political activism.

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As we prepare for the 500th episode of The Axe Files, we take a look back at the show’s very first episode featuring Sen. Bernie Sanders. David spoke with Sen. Sanders in September 2015, just a few months after he announced his campaign for the Democratic nomination for president. In this episode, Sen. Sanders talks with David about his childhood in Brooklyn, his presidential campaign, and his stance on selfies.

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When David Chalian was in first grade, he memorized the names of all the US presidents—in reverse chronological order. His interest in politics was second only to his love of theater. Chalian later found the intersection of his two passions as a journalist covering the larger-than-life characters and intricate storylines in politics. Now the political director at CNN, and host of the CNN Political Briefing podcast, Chalian joined David to talk about losing his father at a young age, how working for playwright and performer Anna Deavere Smith inspired his career in political journalism, the challenges of covering the 2016 Trump campaign and presidency, and the political climate today—and what it means for Biden, Trump, and the 2022 midterms.

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By the time Colorado Gov. Jared Polis was 16, he was already enrolled at Princeton University. At 23, he became a millionaire after selling the business he started in his college dorm, and at 25, he was elected to state-wide office in Colorado. As a Democratic politician with a libertarian streak, Gov. Polis spent 10 years in Congress before becoming governor. He joined David to talk about volunteering for campaigns before he was a teenager, the impact of the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage and his concerns about the current court, his focus on education and charter schools, how he responded to the Covid-19 pandemic, and the advice he would give President Biden.

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Sen. Chris Murphy caught the political bug early; he was first elected to the Connecticut state legislature at age 25 while still in law school. He eventually served three terms as a US Congressman before being elected to the US Senate in 2012. Shortly before his term began, he became an outspoken advocate for gun reform after a gunman killed 20 children and six adults at his district’s Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. Sen. Murphy joined David to talk about how Sandy Hook refocused his political career, the new gun safety legislation he helped usher through Congress, what he sees as the politicization of the Supreme Court, why he hopes voters begin paying attention to Senate procedure, and his belief that Sen. Mitch McConnell wants to be part of the paradigm shift on preventing gun violence.

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Kellyanne Conway made history as the first woman to run a Republican campaign for president when she helped Donald Trump win in 2016—a far cry from her days packing blueberries at a farm in New Jersey. As many advisers fell in and out of Trump’s orbit during his presidency, Kellyanne remained a constant presence before leaving the White House in August 2020. She joined David to talk about being raised by four women in blue-collar New Jersey, her relationship with Trump, her disappointment with the Trump 2020 campaign, the difficulties of being a working mother, her predictions for Trump’s 2024 plans, and her memoir, “Here’s the Deal.”

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After more than three decades representing his Michigan hometown in Congress, Rep. Fred Upton announced his retirement in a speech on the House floor in April 2022. He joined David to talk about his famous Michigan family, his focus on bipartisanship, why he supports gun safety legislation, voting to impeach Donald Trump following the January 6 attack on the Capitol, and his decision not to run for reelection in 2022.

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John Dean, former counsel to President Richard Nixon, was directly involved in covering up the Watergate break-in. But he has also been credited with taking down Nixon, thanks to his critical testimony before the Senate committee investigating the scandal. In recognition of Watergate’s 50th anniversary, John joined David to talk about his professional journey that landed him in the White House at just 31 years old, his involvement in Watergate, parallels between Nixon and Donald Trump, his concerns about the present day Republican Party, and his work on CNN’s “Watergate: Blueprint for a Scandal.”

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Former US Secretary of Education and CEO of Chicago Public Schools Arne Duncan now spends his days focused on stopping gun violence in his hometown of Chicago through his organization, Chicago CRED. Curtis Toler, the organization’s director of outreach, grew up surrounded by violence and was a gang leader before joining CRED, where he works to stop violence throughout the city and build relationships with at-risk young people. Arne and Curtis joined David to talk about the challenges facing many young Chicagoans and the daily trauma they experience, the lack of Congressional action on gun safety, policing in Chicago, the impact of Covid-19 and George Floyd’s murder in the communities they serve, and why Arne decided against running for mayor.

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Nebraska Governor Pete Ricketts tried to get out of applying to the University of Chicago, as his father wanted, by pretending to forget about the application. His ruse didn’t work, and he ended up attending the school and spending more than a decade in Chicago before making his way back to Omaha. Gov. Ricketts joined David to talk about what he learned from his father, what he believes makes the Second Amendment inalienable, his strongly held convictions on abortion and the death penalty, his views on the role of government, the benefits and challenges of working with Nebraska’s unicameral legislature, and why he thinks that these are the good old days.

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Chris Krebs was a champion pole vaulter and spent time as a scuba instructor before getting into infrastructure risk management. He ended up as the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency at the Department of Homeland Security, a role that put him in former President Trump’s crosshairs as Chris sought to secure the 2020 election infrastructure. He was ultimately fired by the president. Chris joined David to talk about the ever-evolving nature of cybersecurity, working in the Trump administration, threats of Russian cyberattacks to the West and the war in Ukraine, and his concerns that false claims of election fraud are growing—and putting democracy at risk.

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Rep. Jackie Speier got her start in politics working for Rep. Leo Ryan, then a California state Assemblyman. But what started as a high school assignment ended on an airstrip in Guyana, where Rep. Ryan was killed, and Rep. Speier was shot five times ahead of the Jonestown Massacre. She has since dedicated her life to public service, making a mark when she became the first US Representative to speak about her own abortion on the House floor in 2011. Rep. Speier joined David to talk about her blue-collar upbringing, her experience in Jonestown and its lingering ramifications, abortion rights, gun violence, her concerns for the future of Congress—and what gives her hope.

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Growing up, Shaka Senghor wanted to be a doctor. But at age 14, he ran away from his unstable home. By 19, he was in prison. While in prison, he began unravelling his past, seeking to understand how he went from a bright young boy to solitary confinement. Shaka joined David to talk about the overwhelming challenges facing young people in neighborhoods like the one he grew up in, the seduction of drug culture, the injustices of the criminal justice system, being a father, and his new book, “Letters to the Sons of Society.”

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Al Franken has been in the public eye for decades, first as a comedian and then as a senator from Minnesota. Since he resigned from the Senate in 2018 amid sexual harassment allegations—that he has denied—he has mostly stayed out of the spotlight. He talks to David about his transition from comedy to politics, his departure from the Senate and his subsequent battle with depression, whether he might run for office again, and his touring comedy show, “The Only Former U.S. Senator Currently on Tour Tour.”

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As a high school student in Montana, Ambassador Michael McFaul became interested in Russian affairs while working on a debate team assignment concerning trade sanctions on the Soviet Union. He first visited the Soviet Union in college and went on to serve as US Ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014. Ambassador McFaul joined David to talk about Russian President Vladimir Putin’s paranoia over the expansion of democracy around the world, the rise of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, what he sees as potential outcomes for the war in Ukraine, and how Putin’s attempts to tighten his grip on power may actually accelerate the unraveling of his leadership.

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Inspired by the stacks of books in her parents’ home, Republican strategist Sarah Longwell once thought she might become a poet. But at Kenyon College, she found herself more captivated by political science than writing. Sarah joined David to talk about coming out as gay in a very conservative professional environment, her work to keep Donald Trump from winning in 2020, the struggle to separate true conservatism from the current culture wars, why she believes Joe Biden shouldn’t run for reelection, and what happens if Trump wins in 2024.

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Nobel Prize-winning journalist Maria Ressa faces 100 years in prison stemming from what she says are illegitimate charges, but that hasn’t stopped her mission of exposing political malfeasance and lies in her home country of the Philippines. She joined David to talk about immigrating to the US as a child and later returning to the Philippines where she built a career, technology’s corrosive impact on journalism and democracy, founding Rappler and finding herself a government target, and maintaining hope as she fights corruption and disinformation through her journalism.

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This week’s episode comes from a conversation at the Disinformation and the Erosion of Democracy Conference, co-hosted by the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and The Atlantic. Journalist Anne Applebaum joined David on stage to talk about how globalization has turbocharged the spread of disinformation, how the Russian disinformation campaign in Ukraine failed, how we lost touch with the truth, and what happened when she found herself at the center of a disinformation campaign. 

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Growing up, GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio spent time helping out at his grandfather’s produce stand in Brooklyn, selling everything from watermelons to Christmas trees. While he was always interested in politics, fostered by an early fascination with Richard Nixon, the idea of politics as a career didn’t take shape for Tony until he moved to Long Island at age 12. Tony joined David to talk about how he got his start in political polling, the story behind the infamous Willie Horton ad, working with Donald Trump on his presidential campaigns, Trump’s 2024 prospects, and getting kicked out of the Young Republicans. 

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Growing up the child of Eastern European and German immigrants, former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch strived to fit in. Learning to navigate other cultures ultimately proved useful during her 33 years in the Foreign Service. In 2019, her diplomatic career ended after a months-long smear campaign led to her recall from Ukraine by then-President Trump. She joined David to talk about lessons learned from her parents, the on-going Russian invasion of Ukraine, her take on Putin’s mindset, what it was like being attacked by a sitting president and her new book, “Lessons from the Edge.”

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CNN anchor Erin Burnett grew up on a farm in a small town in eastern Maryland, but her career has taken her around the world, covering major events from the Arab Spring in Cairo to the Bataclan shooting in Paris. She talked with David about how a letter to a stranger helped her get her start in journalism, her relationship with former President Trump, joining CNN at an unpropitious time, and her recent reporting from Ukraine. 

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One morning in 2017, journalist Frank Bruni woke up to altered vision— he had lost sight in his right eye during the night. As he grappled with this new reality, he began reevaluating his expectations, priorities, and outlook on life. He joined David to talk about how his lost eyesight taught him to approach others with empathy and savor meaningful moments, his thoughts on the politicization of Covid-19 and how President Biden is doing so far, and his new book, “The Beauty of Dusk: On Vision Lost and Found.”

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With the recent nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson, who, if confirmed, would be the first Black woman to sit on the Supreme Court, we revisit a conversation with another history maker, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. She joined David in November 2018 to discuss her remarkable personal journey from the Bronx to the highest court in the land, how her background as a prosecutor and district judge helped to inform her perspective, the shifting dynamics on the Supreme Court, and more.

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Growing up in Texas, Bianna Golodryga begged her immigrant parents to avoid speaking Russian in front of her friends for fear of not fitting in. She soon came to appreciate her background, becoming fluent in Russian and pursuing a degree in Russian/East European and Eurasian studies. Bianna, now a CNN senior global affairs analyst, joined David to discuss how watching CNBC with her father led to a career in journalism, the rapidly evolving Ukraine-Russia crisis, and how Russian President Vladimir Putin’s views have changed in recent years.

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When he was 5 years old, Afghan journalist Lotfullah Najafizada watched as rockets landed in his front yard. He and his family moved around the country to escape conflict, but after the fall of the Taliban following 9/11, a new sense of calm—and a burgeoning media landscape—emerged. Lotfullah became the director of TOLOnews, the country’s most-watched station. He joined David to talk about the situation on the ground in Afghanistan, engaging in peace talks with the Taliban, America’s successes and failures in the country, and what he wants people to know about the colleagues he has lost to violence. 

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More than 100 years ago, Sen. Jon Tester’s grandfather arrived in Montana, where he homesteaded a vast stretch of farmland. Sen. Tester still makes time to farm that land today, saying his tractor doesn’t care if he’s a US Senator. He joined David to talk about how farming helps him keep perspective when he’s working in Washington, why addressing climate change is imperative to the agriculture industry, his thoughts on political polarization and the filibuster, and why Democrats are losing in rural America.

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In 1998, Eurasia Group founder Ian Bremmer made a name for himself when he successfully predicted the collapse of the Russian ruble. Since then, Bremmer has turned offering his political science insights into a successful business, helping companies understand geopolitical risk as they shape their global strategies. Bremmer joined David to talk about his rise from Chelsea, Massachusetts to Wall Street, what he believes could happen with the Russia-Ukraine conflict, China, the risks of the US stepping back from global leadership, and why a looming Constitutional crisis is not enough to create real change in America.

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The Rt. Hon. Gordon Brown grew up the son of a minister in an industrial Scottish town before ascending the ranks of Britain’s Labour Party to eventually serve as Prime Minister. Since leaving office, The Rt. Hon. Brown has focused on social justice, most recently speaking out on the shortfalls in the international response to Covid-19. He joined David to talk about his concerns over increased nationalism in Europe and around the globe, how he views the United States’ role in world affairs, Russian President Vladimir Putin, and how almost losing his eye sight led to a career in politics. 

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After graduating from college, Andrew Young had a moment of extreme clarity while standing at the top of a mountain. He suddenly realized that “everything has a purpose,” and he proceeded to channel that purpose in his work as a civil rights leader and confidant to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., as a politician, and while representing the United States on the world stage as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. He joined David to reflect on his life and career, the legacy of Dr. King, the current debate over voting rights, and the state of politics in America.

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Journalist Barton Gellman has been questioning power and authority since, as editor of the school paper, he sued his high school for censorship. He has made a career of shining a spotlight on the use and abuse of power, most recently in a series of in-depth warnings for The Atlantic on Trump and threats to American democracy. He joined David to talk about how skepticism towards authority has shaped his career, grappling with the interests of national security versus self-government, and the potentially perilous future he sees for US democracy. 

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Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin rose to national prominence when he led the second impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump in January 2021, a proceeding that took place just weeks after two compounding traumas: the death of his son and the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Raskin joined David to talk about losing his son, Tommy, the January 6 insurrection and its aftermath, the cracks in the electoral college, if the country could survive another Trump presidency, and his new book, “Unthinkable: Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy.”

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New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has already faced a series of unprecedented crises during her four year tenure in the nation’s highest office. This week, we revisit our June 2021 conversation with the young, progressive Prime Minister who has led her country through a terrorist attack, a natural disaster, and most recently the Covid-19 pandemic. From her rural and working-class childhood to her nation’s highest office, Prime Minister Ardern says her focus has always been on creating a more just society. She joined David to talk about her early introduction to politics, the difference between working with the Trump and Biden administrations, her government’s response to Covid-19, New Zealand’s relationship with China, and how she measures her success.

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This week, we revisit our May 2021 conversation with White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. Psaki didn’t envision herself returning to the White House after serving as Communications Director under President Obama, but when President Joe Biden asked her to join his team, she agreed. She now speaks on behalf of the Biden administration and holds near-daily press briefings, which she called just the tip of the iceberg of her responsibilities. Jen joined David to talk about how the constant flow of information shapes her communication strategy, what the job of press secretary actually looks like, why comparisons between the Obama and Biden administrations miss the mark, and her expectation for a short-lived stint in her current role.

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Michigan Rep. Elissa Slotkin intended to pursue international development work, but watching the twin towers fall on 9/11 as a graduate student in New York changed the trajectory of her career. Rep. Slotkin spent years in the CIA before running for office, flipping a Trump district from red to blue in 2018. Rep. Slotkin joined David to talk about the difficulty of being a Midwestern member of the Democratic Party, the rifts in Congress, the recent fatal high school shooting in her district, and how her time in the CIA and at the Pentagon inform her role as a politician.

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After more than three decades in the military, including overseeing joint special operations and leading the war in Afghanistan, retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal has learned a thing or two about risk. He recently wrote “Risk: A User’s Guide,” a manual on assessing and mitigating perilous situations. He joined David to talk about his latest book, the country’s 20 years in Afghanistan, how the US failed to successfully manage Covid-19, and the threat of disinformation.

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A longtime Republican operative, Marc Short served as both White House director of legislative affairs and chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence during the Trump administration. He joined David to share his take on the administration, his relationship with Pence, the politicization of Covid-19, his first-hand account of the events that transpired on January 6th, and his thoughts on the role of the federal government.

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Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie considers Donald Trump a friend, but he has been outspoken against the former president’s insistence that the 2020 election was stolen. He is now considering a run for president in 2024 and has said a Trump candidacy would not stop him. He joined David to talk about the need for truth in politics, his battle with Covid-19, the virus’ lasting impacts on society, and his hope that his new book, “Republican Rescue,” gives other Republicans courage to speak out against lies and conspiracy theories.

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Rep. Pramila Jayapal came to the US for college at just 16 years old. She found success in finance, nonprofits and activism before deciding to take her fight to politics. She joined David to talk about knowing when to use her legislative leverage as chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, getting the bipartisan infrastructure bill over the finish line, the need for filibuster reform to protect voting rights and her relationship with President Biden.

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Growing up in England’s distressed coal country, there weren’t many opportunities for bright, ambitious people like Fiona Hill. Through hard work and some lucky breaks, Fiona rose to deputy assistant to the president and senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council. Consequentially, she also became a household name during the first impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump. She joined David to talk about her hometown, her concerns over the direction of democracy, her interest in Russia, and her memoir, “There is Nothing For You Here.”

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This week, we’re bringing you an episode of CNN’s Margins of Error. It's been a year since Americans waited on edge to find out the winner in the strangest election of our lifetimes. CNN’s Harry Enten revisits that night and gives us a behind-the-scenes look at how election night turned into election week. He'll also explore the repercussions of the delayed count and how we can avoid drawn out election results in the future.

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Public theologian Russell Moore has long encouraged evangelical Christians to focus on practicing religion rather than engaging in culture wars, something he found increasingly difficult under former President Donald Trump. Moore left his leadership post at the Southern Baptist Convention earlier this year and now works for Christianity Today. He joined David to talk about how working for a conservative Democratic congressman on Capitol Hill reaffirmed his belief in the possibility of politics, why his dad didn’t want him joining the ministry, and why he felt compelled to call out issues he saw in the church, even as it led to his departure from the SBC.

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Anderson Cooper is now a well-known CNN anchor, but he got his start in journalism armed with just a camcorder and a fake press pass. Cooper is also part of the storied Vanderbilt family, which he writes about in his latest book Vanderbilt: The Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty. He joined David to talk about the corrosive power of money and how its effects can ripple through generations, his mother’s life and her capacity for overcoming trauma, losing his father at 10 years old, and how he hopes his book teaches his son Wyatt to feel connected to something beyond himself.

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