Exercise Science

You’re a busy person. Career, family, social obligations and everything else. What SHOULD you be doing for your cardio if you have just five hours a week to devote to your training? What’s the proper mix of long, slow effort, interval sessions and tempo bouts? How many times a week should you be getting out? And what’s the ideal duration per workout?

To work out the answer, Marty and Stu invite on to the show the science journalist Alex Hutchinson, who has a physics Ph.D. from Cambridge and was on the Canadian national running team. He writes the Sweat Science column, on the science of human performance, for Outside magazine. He’s also the author of the bestselling books Endure and The Explorer’s Gene. 

Together, the guys discuss:

the challenge of cardio training when you’re not a professional athlete. 

the current vogue for Marius Bakken and Norwegian Threshold training

Norwegian Threshold Training’s implications for Zone 2 and other training protocols

The optimal cardio training regimen for those who have five hours a week for training

The challenge of intensity guidance and training thresholds   

Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free, no credit card two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to:

everme.ai/exercisescience

Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

EPISODE LINKS

Alex Hutchinson’s Sweat Science website. Substack. He’s also on Instagram. 

Hutchinson’s books: Endure. The Explorer’s Gene. 

1964 5,000m final Olympic final results.  

Mentioned in this episode: The Norwegian Method Applied. Book by Marius Bakken MD

Also here’s Brendan Gurd from Queen’s University. 

Recent guidance from the ACSM & ESSA: Physical Activity and Exercise Intensity Terminology. 

This episode’s listener question comes from Sandi Nypaver. Here’s here Instagram and her bio at Higher Running

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Episode introduction

00:52 Introducing Alex

03:00 Origin story

05:52 Brain's role

08:04 Sponsor break

10:40 Program optimality

12:50 Different approaches

14:55 Norwegian threshold

16:55 Training intensity

18:32 Individual differences

22:24 Threshold domains

24:32 Sponsor break

27:10 Interval routine

30:59 Resistance training

33:14 Current project

34:14 Listener question

37:00 Episode wrap-up

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

What’s the most efficient way to fuel human performance during endurance sports?

Australian Louise Burke is one of the best-known sports nutritionists on the planet, known for her Supernova race-walking studies that showed that keto- and low carb, high fat diets don’t fuel endurance athletes as well as carbohydrate-burning approaches. She also practices what she researches, holding the women’s Australian marathon record in her age group—the age group, she jokes, of “never you mind.” 

In this episode Dr. Burke walks Stu and Marty through her research that found carb-based approaches to fueling yield about 5% more of the muscle cell’s energy currency, ATP, compared to fat-burning approaches, with carb-burning also yielding 7-8% better performance.

She also:

—discusses her own approach to fuelling endurance events

—provides tips on carbohydrate periodization

—answers a listener question about carb-loading

—shows that carbs during a race are good for the brain 

GUEST BIO

Professor Louise Burke OAM, PhD, APD is a sports dietitian with 45 years of experience in the education and counselling of elite athletes. She worked at the Australian Institute of Sport for thirty years, rising to Chief of Nutrition Strategy. She has attended 6 Summer Olympic Games with the Australian Olympic Team. She was awarded a Medal of the Order of Australia in 2009. Louise is the Chair in Sports Nutrition at Australian Catholic University .

SOCIALS

X: 

@LouiseMBurke

IG: 

https://www.instagram.com/louiseburke4

Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to:

everme.ai/exercisescience

Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout for a 10% discount:

https://getbiafit.com/

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

EPISODE LINKS

Re-examining high-fat diets for sports performance: Did we call the "nail in the coffin" too soon?

Low carbohydrate, high fat diet impairs exercise economy. J Physiol. 2017

Organization of dietary control for nutrition-training intervention. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2018

Crisis of confidence averted. PLoS One. 2020

Swimmer Eva Buzo’s trans-Adriatic swim chronicled here and in Balkan Insight. 

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty is on Instagram. He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cold open

02:33 Louise Burke intro

03:45 Field Origins

04:55 Glycogen Supercompensation

06:53 Carbohydrate Periodization

09:02 High-Fat Diets

11:56 Carbohydrate Downregulation

13:49 Keto Diet Hype

17:02 Supernova Program

21:18 Study Results

24:12 Carb vs. Keto

26:45 Recreational Application

30:37 Burke Uses Keto

32:06 LQ: Race Fueling

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

You have an older person in your life, or perhaps you are an older person yourself and you need that push to start strength training. This is the episode for you—because today we’retalking with Ashley Gluchowski, Ph.D., one of the most enthusiastic evangelists on strength training around and the University of Salford exercise scientist who helps older adults get stronger, improve balance and reduce risk of falls.  

In this episode we discuss:

The association between strength and decreased dementia risk

How to get over being intimidated by strength training

The long-term benefits of making exercise social 

Tips on how older adults can stick with strength-building programs

Ashley is a clinical exercise physiologist and former student of Stu Phillips’ who has gone on to found Stronger At Home, a program designed to get older adults to start and stick with strength training (link below). She has years of experience working with older adults on how to start and stick with strength training—and in this episode, Stu and Marty interview her about what works (exercise classes), and what doesn’t (patronizing trainers).

According to Ashley, “the short-term benefits of becoming stronger and more active include better glucose regulation, improved mood, increased energy, and better sleep.” The stereotype is that strength training is just for young people. But older people fighting sarcopenia are the ones who will most benefit from strength training most of all!

Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to: everme.ai/exercisescience

Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store. Learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

LINKS

Dr. Ashley Gluchowski on instagram @drashleygstrongerwithage

Dr. Ashley Gluchowski’s website strongerahome.com

The Antifrail paper that Stu and Ashley wrote 

Handgrip strength and all-cause dementia incidence and mortality: UK Biobank study

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cold open

01:03 Dr. Ashley Gluchowski’s story

06:48 Why strength train

08:30 Starting strength training

13:57 More reasons to strength train

17:22 Muscle power for older adults

20:44 The intimidation factor

22:47 Four reps

29:21 Tips for beginners

32:12 Squat variations

34:27 Four reps in practice

39:08 Listener question: Osteoarthritis

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

It’s no longer just the longevity bros and fitness fiends obsessing over their protein intake. So what does the science actually say about protein consumption? How much do you need, and what’s the best way to get it? 

In today’s episode, Marty takes our own in-house world-renowned protein expert Stuart Phillips through the math behind the macros.

In this episode Stu and Marty discuss:

Stu says why the old guideline of 0.8 g/kg body weight wasn’t enough

Does the benefit of protein hit a hard plateau at 1.6 g per kg per day?

How much protein do you need if you want to stay strong as you get older?

How much protein do you need if you want to lose weight but hold on to muscle?

What’s better, vegan or animal protein?

Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial, go to:

everme.ai/exercisescience

Our sponsor Biafit is your all-in-one fitness platform. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store: https://getbiafit.com/

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

LINKS 

Stu’s essay on protein in The Conversation: The Year that Protein Jumped the Shark

High-Protein Food Market Size to Hit USD 117.44 Billion by 2034

Mentioned in the podcast: The book, Nutrient Timing, by John Ivy

Shawn Arent paper Stu mentions: Nutrient Timing: A Garage Door of Opportunity

Friend of the show Mark Tarnopolsky’s fascinating paper on the protein needs of bodybuilders versus endurance athletes

Load-induced Human Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy - Journal of Sport and Health Science

Effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength - British Journal of Sports Medicine

Stu calls this the “Tom Longland” paper in the episode, from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: Higher compared with lower dietary protein during an energy deficit  

Resistance Training Prescription for Muscle Function, Hypertrophy, and Physical Performance - American College of Sports Medicine

Protein intake to support muscle mass and function in healthy adults - Journal of Cachexia, Sarcopenia and Muscle

Dietary Guidelines for Americans - USDA

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu's socials: Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty's Instagram. He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cold open

03:45 What is protein?

05:39 How much protein should I eat?

08:59 Kidneys

10:56 Where did 0.8 come from?

14:54 How much protein is too much?

18:41 Protein for older people

21:57 Protein timing

23:28 Post-workout protein intake

24:45 Weight loss and protein

27:39 GLP-1s and protein

30:29 GLP-1 protein recommendation

31:13 Plant vs. animal protein

33:58 Leucine

35:13 Takeaways

40:40 Future research

44:37 Listener question: Avoiding protein bloat

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

A little morsel of an episode on exercise snacks and Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Physical Activity, known as VILPA. Along with a handful of scientists around the world, Marty is leading research into the health benefits of short, vigorous bouts of exercise that are scattered through the day. 

One key finding is that just four minutes of vigorous physical activity can decrease risk of all-cause mortality by 25%. 

So in our eighth episode, Stu leads Marty through a discussion of the research into the benefits of short, vigorous bouts of physical activity. The guys discuss:

—What’s the difference between exercise snacks and VILPA?

—What health benefits are provided by short, vigorous bursts of exercise scattered throughout the day?

—What are some examples of great exercise snacks that anyone can do?

—What’s the shortest amount of exercise that will make a difference to one’s health?

Finally, we explore the idea that exercise snacks and VILPA may be able to liberate physical activity from the confines of planned gym visits that require special clothing and fancy equipment. 

Send us ideas for future episodes, comments and listener questions at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to:

everme.ai/exercisescience

Thanks also to our sponsor BiaFit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

EPISODE LINKS

Great explainer video on exercise snacking featuring Martin Gibala

Marty and Jon Little Diabetologia study: Bodyweight exercise snacks totalling 4 min of vigorous activity per day led to small, yet statistically significant improvements. 

Technology-Enabled Exercise Snacks - Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sports

Once and thrice weekly interval training in adults with central obesity: a randomized controlled trial: Gibala 2026 

The Stamatakis study that Marty co-authored: The sample median VILPA duration of 4.4 min per day was associated with a 26%–30% reduction in all-cause and cancer mortality risk.

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty's Instagram. He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Introduction

01:04 Episode outline

02:47 What are exercise snacks?

03:30 VILPA explained

05:45 Emerging research

07:55 VILPA benefits

10:10 Bus drivers

12:47 Snack physiology

13:50 Future research

15:51 Diabetologia study

16:39 Guidelines

18:36 Vigorous explained

19:15 Liberating exercise

21:24 Just four minutes!

22:56 Snack suggestions

24:05 Listener question

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

Peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide are among the hottest trends for optimizers, gym bros, looksmaxxers and the longevity crowd. But is it wise to inject bioactive molecules into the bloodstream that haven’t passed the drug approval process?  

In this episode, Marty and Stu welcome the Harvard- and Stanford-educated Leigh Baxt, who mythbusts about peptides and other panaceas on Instagram @sciencemomscicomm. 

Baxt is a translational scientist who specializes in drug development. She points out the many problems with injecting peptides into the body, including the major one that many of these peptides are activating biological pathways that cancer cells love. 

In this episode we discuss the following questions: 

What are peptides?

Are peptides safe? 

Quick guide to peptides like BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295 and retatrutide

What do peptides do?

What is a wolverine stack?

Finally, we also walk through the drug-approval process that protects human beings from predatory marketing, and say what Marty, Stu and Leigh think is so wrong about promoting peptides to young people. 

What scientific evidence supports peptide use? Find the answer in our latest episode:

realexercisescience.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. To get a free two-month trial to EverMe exclusively for Exercise Science listeners, go to:

everme.ai/exercisescience

Thanks also to our sponsor Biafit, your all-in-one fitness platform designed to help you become the best version of yourself. Enter the promotional code HARDFACTS at checkout to receive a one-time 10% discount on the purchased subscription. Download BiaFit at your favorite app store, and learn more here: https://getbiafit.com/

EPISODE LINKS

Leigh Baxt is on Instagram @sciencemomscicomm

Leigh collaborates heavily with Unbiased Science: https://www.unbiasedscience.com/

Leigh was also on Simon Hill: Are Peptides Safe? What You Need to Know About BPC-157

Retatrutide phase 2 trial for obesity in the New England Journal of Medicine

Good overview from Patricia Brubaker on problems with injecting peptides

Want to hack your body with peptides? The Economist opines

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cold open

01:02 Introducing Leigh Baxt

04:54 What are peptides?

07:25 Antivaxxers

09:24 BPC-157

11:05 TB-500

12:20 Wolverine stacking

13:10 CJC-1295

13:55 Retatrutide

16:28 Drug approval process

18:08 Peptides & cancer

20:12 Most drugs fail

22:03 Are peptides safe

23:52 Peptides & patents

26:28 Peptide categories

27:35 What’s wrong with wolverine stacks

29:54 Drug interactions

31:53 Why are peptides so hot?

34:27 Predatory marketing

37:21 Peptide predictions

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

Leigh Baxt does not represent her employer on this platform and all views expressed are her own.

If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic.

Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis.

Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health. How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much.

Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store.

SHOW LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X.

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

EPISODE LINKS

Two runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic. 

Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When?

Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF. 

Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless

Andy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension: physiological resilience as an independent determinant of endurance exercise performance - The Journal of Physiology

Adaptations to swimming training: influence of training volume - Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise

Physiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied Physiology

A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports Med

The “How They Train” series by Fred Wilt

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Intro

02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner

03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:00

04:47 Who is Joyner?

06:18 Marathon predictions

11:13 Joyner prediction reception

13:03 Performance determinants

15:51 Other performance determinants

18:59 Elite characteristics

20:50 How elite is elite

22:03 Joyner on Zone 2

26:55 Joyner’s training haiku

29:30 Optimal intensities

30:40 Long intervals key

32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time?

33:43 Resistance training

35:00 Do SOMETHING

36:51 Zone 2 too low

38:51 Vigorous benefits

40:37 What Joyner does

42:35 More haikus

43:59 Listener question

46:52 Wrap up

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

Semaglutide, sold as Ozempic and Wegovy, and tirzepatide, sold as Zepbound and Mounjaro, are new weight loss drugs that actually work, helping millions around the world to feel better and become healthier. But some people are fearful of side effects, such as loss of muscle mass. Are their fears warranted? 

To find out, Marty and Stu talk to the two University of Kansas weight-loss scientists, Renee Rogers and ACSM president-elect John Jakicic, who are leading a clinical trial investigating the way aerobic and resistance training can affect the muscle mass of people who are on GLP-1s, or the other new weight loss drugs. 

In this episode:

—how GLP-1s affect muscle mass

—the difference between lean and muscle mass

—the research that Jakicic and Rogers are doing into GLP-1s

—guidance on whether people should be concerned about GLP-1s and muscle mass

—how to minimize muscle loss while on GLP-1s 

Plus, whether the new weight loss drugs affect men and women differently. 

Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. 

Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com. 

LINKS

Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. 

EPISODE LINKS

New York Times: They Hated Exercise. Weight Loss Drugs Changed Everything. 

Renee Rogers and John Jakicic’s clinical trial: Muscle and Movement With Anti-Obesity Medications (M3)

A paper by John Jakicic and Renee Rogers advocating for a prescription of exercise along with obesity medication: The Role of Exercise in the Contemporary Era of Obesity Management Medications

Jakicic led, and Rogers coauthored, the largest NIH investment into how physical activity improves health and prevents disease. Study website. Journal article: Molecular Transducers of Physical Activity Consortium (MoTrPAC): human studies design and protocol

Analysis: Preserving muscle mass on GLP-1 weight loss drugs: Big Deal or Nothing to Worry About? By Stuart Phillips

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cold open

01:29 Muscle mass and GLP-1s

04:19 Introducing Renee and John

06:19 GLP-1 context

07:50 How GLP-1s work

10:50 More than GLP-1s

12:44 Body composition & weight loss

15:00 Lean tissue is not muscle

16:50 Overblown fears

18:55 Muscle moment

20:39 R01 study described

23:15 Early results

26:04 Behavioural influences

28:45 Rediscovering exercise

31:09 Comprehensive care

33:00 Renting weight loss

36:55 Obesity drivers

37:47 Older adults

40:39 Wraparound care

41:30 Muscle health context

43:12 Function measures matter

44:44 Lean v. muscle

46:15 Unloading the body

47:40 GLP-1 sex differences

49:44 How to minimize muscle loss on GLP-1s

53:33 Wrap up

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

VO₂max is the most important metric of your overall cardiorespiratory fitness. It’s a measure of the maximal ability of your body to take in and use oxygen. But what does the number actually mean for your health and longevity? Why is it important to know your VO₂max? What’s the most effective way to improve your VO₂max, whether you’re an athlete or just someone seeking to improve your health? And what does this all have to do with beer-league hockey, and everybody’s favourite Sudbury Blueberry Bulldog, Shoresy?

In this episode, Stuart Phillips asks Martin Gibala to break down VO₂max in plain English: what it is, why it matters, and how it shapes everything from your risk of dying to how fast you can run a 10K. And just to get the kin grad students among us even more excited, this episode namedrops the Hickson Protocol, plus legends of kinesiology like Robert Ross, Ulrik Wisløff and Carsten Lundby. Pitter patter, let’s get at ‘er!

Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. 

LINKS

Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency. 

A Case for Fitness as a Clinical Vital Sign: The academic paper Marty references, that argues that MDs should assess VO₂max during each patient visit. 

The Hickson protocol is described here, featuring six sessions per week, including three sessions of continuous vigorous in which the athletes ran as far as they could in 40 minutes, interspersed with three interval training bouts per week. The interval training amounted to six sessions of five-minute-long intervals during which the athletes tried to achieve VO₂max in each interval. 

Protocols to test VO₂max by proxy: YMCA fitness test is described in this academic paper. Plus here’s a better description of the 3-min step test. 

An impressively accurate non-exercise predictor of VO₂max is based on a survey at worldfitnesslevel.org.

VO₂max test footage from McMaster University 

Wisløff Hunt Study one high-intensity bout of week v. cardiac risk

Wisløff 2001 out of Norwegian University of Science and Technology with elite male junior soccer players, 2x a week for eight weeks boosted VO₂max  by 11%. 

Wisløff 2008 with sedentary middle-aged men and women with metabolic syndrome, 3x a week for 16 weeks, improved VO₂max  by 35%, more than twice as much as a control that performed continuous moderate exercise. 

Martin Gibala contributed to Wisløff’s 2013 paper, showing most of the benefits from an interval workout come from the first sprint.  

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Cardio v. Strength

02:08 VO₂max explained

06:08 Heart’s role

08:41 Clinical vital sign

10:36 Benefits of boosting VO₂max 

12:11 Assessing VO₂max

13:51 Ulrik Wisløff

15:15 Beer league hockey

17:07 VO₂max ranges

20:59 More boosting benefits

24:16 VO₂max trainability

27:00 Highest recorded values

29:30 How to improve VO₂max 

31:27 Hickson protocol

33:38 Fastest way to boost 

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

Think you know how to build muscle? In our third episode, Martin Gibala does some mythbusting with two of the world’s most prominent experts in the science of strength development, Stuart Phillips and special guest Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor of exercise science at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York. 

In addition to being a former bodybuilder and joining Stu on the ACSM strength position statement, Schoenfeld literally wrote the textbook on strength training. Together, Phillips and Schoenfeld use science and savvy to correct some of the resistance world’s most pervasive myths, including: 

Light loads don't increase muscle size

You have to train to absolute failure to maximize muscular adaptations

Short rest periods are best for hypertrophy

Cardio kills gains

Narrow post-exercise anabolic window of opportunity

Join us to discuss these myths and more in the latest episode of Exercise Science! 

Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com

Exercise Science is powered by ⁠⁠EverMe⁠⁠. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. ⁠⁠

LINKS

Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

Whoa Brad Schoenfeld is HUGE onInstagram! One of the best feeds out there for the up-to-the-minute science on strength training. Plus here’shis lab at Lehman College.

ACSM Position Statement on Resistance Training 2026

Brad’s textbook: Science and Development of Muscle Hypertrophy, 2nd Edition

Resistance Training Beyond Momentary Failure⁠⁠⁠ - Brad Schoenfeld, co-author

Divergent strength gains but similar hypertrophy after low-load and high-load resistance exercise training in trained individuals: ⁠⁠⁠many roads lead to Rome⁠⁠⁠

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Strongest exercise scientist?

02:13 Schoenfeld intro

03:47 Myth 1: Must lift heavy

06:25 Myth 2: Must train to failure

10:52 Myth 3: Short rest periods

17:26 Myth 4: Anabolic window

26:33 Myth 5: Cardio kills gains

36:54 LQ: Losing gains

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed.

Influencers can’t get enough of Zone 2 low-intensity training. So why did Martin Gibala publish a research paper challenging Zone 2 for the general public? In this episode, Stuart Phillips leads Marty through a critical examination of Zone 2. 

Marty suggests that very little scientific research exists to support Zone 2 training intensity for most people—either as an effective stimulus for cardiorespiratory fitness or mitochondrial capacity. In fact, if you do between three and six hours of cardio a week, Marty believes that Zone 2 isn’t hard enough for you to efficiently accrue training benefits. In other words, if you’re an amateur athlete subscribing to the much-vaunted rule that 80% of your cardio should be in Zone 2, you’re not as fit as you otherwise could be. 

So what is Zone 2 training? And is Zone 2 causing many people to exercise inefficiently, leaving them less healthy than they otherwise might be? What should people be doing INSTEAD of Zone 2? It’s all here, in the latest episode of Exercise Science! 

Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com

LINKS

Marty and Brendon Gurd’s critical examination of Zone 2: Much Ado About Zone 2: A Narrative Review Assessing the Efficacy of Zone 2 Training for Improving Mitochondrial Capacity and Cardiorespiratory Fitness in the General Population

Marty’s coauthor Brendon Gurd on their Zone 2 paper at the Discover Strength podcast. 

Luke Carlson calls the “Much Ado About Zone 2” paper the most important scientific publication of 2025 in this blog post summarizing the paper.  

HIIT and Zone 2: Marty on the Discover Strength podcast

Sperlich paper referenced in this episode: Zone 2 Intensity: A Critical Comparison of Individual Variability in Different Submaximal Exercise Intensity Boundaries

Marty was a coauthor on this ACSM/ESSA position statement on exercise intensities

Marty was senior author on this Sports Medicine paper on exercise intensity in high-intensity activity, which features the intensity diagram Marty mentions

Lifehacker’s Beth Skwarecki notes, Nobody Can Agree On What Zone 2 Is

Oura’s heart rate zones

Whoop band’s heart rate zones

Garmin’s heart rate zones

Peter Attia on Zone 2: This Is How You Know If You’re in Zone 2 When Doing Cardio

More Attia: This is What Zone 2 Training Looks Like

Attia saying 80% of cardio should be Zone 2

Origins of Zone 2: Attia and San Milan in the early days of the trend

Find Stu Phillips on most platforms @mackinprof

Find Martin Gibala on Instagram, which he just joined, @gibalamj

Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Exercise fads

00:34 Intros

02:30 What Zone 2 is

04:21 No uniform definition

06:02 Lactate threshold

08:10 Zone 2 marker variability

09:54 Ventilatory threshold

11:57 Conflation with moderate

12:58 Improving exercise prescriptions

14:40 Health v. performance

16:04 Moderate intensity is better

16:58 80/20 split

18:45 Better alternatives

19:47 Zone 2 origins

20:39 Wearable intensities

22:09 Threshold testing options

23:14 Training for health

24:21 Take-home message

26:05 Vigorous is better

26:44 Listener question

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Our co-host Stuart Phillips was the senior author on the ACSM’s gold-standard strength training position statement, a.k.a. “the most comprehensive evidence-based guidance to date on how resistance training supports muscle strength, muscle size (hypertrophy), power, and physical performance across adulthood.” 

In the premiere episode of Exercise Science, co-host Martin Gibala takes Stu through the American College of Sports Medicine update, the first position statement in 17 years. 

Parsing the science, together, Stu and Marty break down why strength is the ultimate compound interest investment for your health span. How important is strength training? Why should you consider strength training 2x per week to be just as important as the other main exercise-related health guideline, 150 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise per week? 

Plus: How much strength training is enough? What’s the minimum that you should do? What changed during the 17 years between position stands? And how did a 1940s bodybuilding doctor rehabbing soldiers pave the way for modern strength training?Forget the oiled-up pumping-iron musclehead stereotype. In 2026, strength training is officially for EVERYONE. And if you’re going to listen to just one podcast about the new guidelines — make it this episode of Exercise Science!

LINKS

Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. 

Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice!

Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!

ACSM Position Stand 2026: The scientific article in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 

Here’s the press release about the stand from the ACSM, and a great succinct infographic summarizing the main takeaways

Here are the two previous ACSM position stands on strength: 2009 and 2002 

Thomas L. DeLorme and the Medical Acceptance Of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Iron Game History

Thomas L. DeLorme and the Science of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research (Abstract)

Among the four students on the position stand, Stu said Brad Currier brought the evidence together, did the lion’s share of the writing and herded the cats

All about Ken Cooper, a seminal expert on aerobic fitness who came to understand the importance of strength training 

Honoring the legacy of Steve N. Blair, a giant in the field of exercise epidemiology

Marty and Stu’s MOOC: Hacking Exercise for Health

Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau in Toronto. 

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Marty teases Stu

01:20 Episode outline

02:34 What’s a position stand?

03:36 What is the ACSM?

03:52 Building the team

05:00 What’s new in 2026

06:20 Levels of scientific papers

07:10 2026 v. 2009

08:12 Recommendations

09:30 Effort v. failure

10:38 Volume of training

12:30 Home-based options

14:06 Advice for newbies

15:13 Strength explained

18:57 Power explained

19:37 Why now?

22:17 Weight training for women

23:03 Capt. Thomas L. Delorme

25:36 Circus strongmen

26:30 Outdated philosophies

28:01 Barriers to entry

29:33 No pain, no gain is dead 

31:45 Safety

33:30 Where to start

35:00 Takeaways

35:50 Listener question

36:50 Outro

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Kinesiology professor Martin Gibala is the worldwide expert on time-efficient cardio. Kinesiology professor Stuart Phillips is the global expert on strength, muscle development and protein. In Exercise Science, these two friends and colleagues translate the world of exercise science for the rest of us — separating the hype from the hard evidence.