Gospel Conversations

Well, we have finished the trilogy of Iain Provan’s talks on creation and it provides a nice foundation for all of our thinking in Gospel Conversations. In this next podcast I pick up the Breakfast with Jesus journey through Ezekiel that Anne and I enjoyed so much. You will see a lot of resonances with Iain’s talks. In this talk I ask a question that might seem obvious but in fact is not – ‘What is glory?’ I confess that I never much asked this question for most of my early Christian life, so I just skated over the word and let it become a cliché. The question completes our BwJ series on the book of Ezekiel being framed by ‘glory’ – and in my last talk I explored the wider vision of the ‘temple’ that animates Ezekiel, where ‘temple’ becomes a synecdoche for the entire created order. But we need the second half of the concept to complete this transporting vision of creation and that is ‘glory’ filling this creation temple. In this talk I foreshadow a couple of conversations that we are going to have with Professor David Bradshaw later this year. David is Professor of Philosophy at Kentucky University and his thinking on glory is eye-opening – he explains how the Eastern church fathers explored ‘glory’ in ways that the Western church – to its loss – did not. So you can look forward to that. I also mention Meredith Kline in this talk. You probably have not heard of him, but he was a big influence on two of our friends, Rikk Watts and Mark Strom. The book that I quote from in this talk is “Images of the Spirit” and it is still freely available from online bookstores. Finally, I mention a conversation with a friend of mine at the end of this talk – I have made this letter anonymous and we will post it on the Gospel Conversations website. It is an example of how we might use the creation gospel as the platform for sharing the good news with seekers.

Here is the third and final of our reboots from Iain Provan’s epic 2011 series on the Old Testament Reloaded – “What is Creation?”. In this talk Iain concludes his magnificent trilogy of talks positioning the vast Mosaic vision of God and reality in contrast to the prevailing Ancient Near Eastern worldviews. It is so important to grasp the fact that this was a contest of worldviews – not religions. In the ANE world, the ‘cosmology’ was their total worldview – it was philosophy, reality, society and values. So Moses upturned all of this. We do Moses a vast disservice if we then put him back in our ‘religious’ box – and we can learn from these talks how to widen our grammar of the gospel from merely religious language to all of life language. This talk will echo lots of the themes that I raised in my latest Breakfast with Jesus talk on Ezekiel’s Wider Vision of the Temple where I explained some of the motifs that link the cosmos to the temple. Iain goes into even deeper detail here and weaves a vast tapestry together of OT allusions to the creation as ‘sacred space’. His overarching theme is that creation is not divine – but it is sacred. But Iain does not stop there – he moves onto the associated vision of humanity that this ‘cosmos as temple’ vision implies. That humanity is placed in the temple as the image of God – the vice regent of created space. If you like listening to Iain, then dive into more of his talks on our website. You will find two series there – the 2011 series called ‘The OT Reloaded’ and the 2015 series called ‘Seriously Dangerous Religion’. We will add a great short bibliography that Iain gave us recommending some key resources if we want to take some of the thinking further. Of course, one of them is John Walton, another valued guest of ours in Gospel Conversations. Our next talk will return to Ezekiel to continue the Breakfast with Jesus series. In that talk we will discuss ‘What is ‘glory’?’

This episode is a repost of a talk by Iain Provan from his epic series on the ‘Old Testament Reloaded’ in 2011.  Originally titled ‘Who is God?’ we have renamed it ‘Was Dawkins right about the angry God?’ because that is fundamentally what Iain concentrates on. It is a wonderful talk that is foundational for any Christian’s faith. With his characteristic understated Scottish style, Iain brilliantly lays down the most basic foundation for our faith – the notion that God is not only eternal and sovereign but that he is fundamentally good and on our side.

Tadionally we treat salvation as an individual event, but Ezekiel has a far wider scope. He sees the object of salvation is the whole cosmos not just individuals, and he sees the cosmos as the temple of God.

How can we be confident about what we know—especially in an age of scepticism? This is the question that John addresses in this compelling talk on the 'Need to Know'. You would think that Christians are on the back foot here because we rely on faith to know—but John turns the tables on the sceptics and proves that 'radical doubt' is everybody's lot in life. Strangely this leads to the only conclusion—'radical faith' must match radical doubt. The Q and A session at the end is a treasure.

Leisa Aitken is a practising psychologist who has discovered the significance of hope in human flourishing—but equally, she has discovered the shallowness of the profession's grasp of hope. She is now advancing a doctorate to integrate the richness of Christian hope with the practice of psychology. In the first talk, she takes us on her personal journey and introduces the points of interaction between theology and psychology. In the second half of her talk, Leisa takes us into more detail into the applications and consequences of her new frameworks of hope. This is very significant and promising, as it lays the groundwork for a new paradigm in Christian growth as well as an enriched paradigm in counselling. Slides: Hope: Psychology and Theologyin conversation

Moses was the most innovative designer of a social system in world history. The ten commandments sit at the heart of this design. But where does the Sabbath fit? It is the only ritualistic member of the ten words, and it seems out of date in today's world. Tony claims that in fact the Sabbath is the linchpin of the whole design, and is vitally relevant to today's world. Discover why in this talk.

Tony looks at Moses as a social designer—which is a modern way of describing his role as prophet and king/leader. And not just any designer, but arguably the most innovative social designer in history. For in fundamental ways, he laid the foundation for the modern world. How did he do it, and what can we learn from him about how we might act, out of faith, in the public space?

In this talk, Tony introduces our theme for the year—the theology of Hope lays the foundation for action in the world. But Hope has not been well understood or developed by the church over the centuries, so we have narrowed this foundation down to a mere 'return of Jesus'. Tony explains that Hope in the Bible reframes how we look at everything in reality. It thus becomes the grounds for reform, optimism, and design.

If the traditional evangelical gospel does not work for the postmodern world, what is the alternative? This is the question that Tony explores on this talk. His answer is to shift our framing of the argument from sin to creation. This does not deny sin, but it starts with a far bigger picture of the issues and one that is much more relevant to the hearts and minds of the postmodern generation.

Tony Morgan describes how he found God in Insurance. For years he was stuck in a dual carriage pathway that separated his faith from his work, but then he discovered that ‘insurance’ was not just the context for expressing his faith—it was co-working with God and thus it was true worship. Insurance also brought him face to face with one of the most imponderable areas of God at work—i.e. areas of huge natural loss.

Tony begins our Faith at Work series by stretching the scope from 'Faith at work' to 'God at work'. This immediately opens up the topic beyond the normal approaches of evangelism and ethics, to the role and nature of faith in the public space—indeed to the broad question of the relationship between the individual and the state. He gives us a broad framework with which to think about this important area in a fresh and expansive way.

Tony interviews Mark Scott about his experience of leading large organisations as a 'follower of Jesus'. Mark ran the Australian Broadcasting Commission (Australia's equivalent of the BBC) and helped it transform into the digital era. He now leads the NSW Dept of Education. How does a believer lead such large 'secular' organisations? Mark talks with remarkable candour and authenticity about how his worldviews framed his leadership and how his inner journey is fed by his highly personal walk with Jesus.

Lots of people think Iain shines best in question and answer sessions. He really ponders the questions and welcomes tough questions. He does not offer glib answers but has the gift of going behind the face value of the questions and addressing the assumptions they are making. The questions in this extended session were deep and wise—so it brought out the very best of Iain.

Iain finishes these first three talks by asking ‘So what?’ How are we expected to live in the face of the vast tension between our view of creation, and our experience of suffering and evil?  He makes a very significant claim at the start of this talk—how we frame our response to this tension will dictate our choices and views of the world and our faith. He gives us a simple but profound series of pathways to living the good life in the face of the Jerusalem view of the world—the Jerusalem Guide.

Perhaps this talk is the most radical of all the talks in this series. Having painted a wondrous picture of the Jerusalem view of creation and humanity, Iain confronts the question of evil and suffering. In fact, he claims that you simply cannot just paint a positive picture without addressing the dark side as well. How do we interpret the presence of evil and suffering in the face of Jerusalem story? Why do I say this talk is so radical? Because Iain differentiates from suffering and ‘evil’ that was caused by sin, from suffering and pain that existed in creation BEFORE the Fall and cannot be attributed to the Fall. This is a very important, bold and clarifying talk.

This talk builds the foundation for the rest of Iain's talks in this series. In it, Iain describes the critical paradigm shifts that separated the ‘Jerusalem’ story from the rest of the great philosophies of the ancient world—from Greece to Egypt to China. Despite all of their differences, these philosophies came from a common worldview—the cosmos is eternal, the cosmos is built for the gods and humans being are an afterthought who survive by serving the needs of the gods. Moses smashed this view and laid the foundation for enterprise and human rights with a ‘blue sky’ conceptual structure that was not a gradual development of these views, but a radical innovative alternative.

As always Iain shines in this important and extended question and answer session. As one participant observed to me about Iain’s ability to answer questions—‘He has the gift of understanding what the questioner was really trying to say and what lay behind the question—even if the asker could not articulate it well themselves.

This talk is a fitting climax to the grand sweep of this series. Iain finishes with ‘hope’ or the vision of the future that Jerusalem gave the world. Importantly he begins by demolishing the Greek notion of the intrinsic immortality of the soul, and he explains that this is not the vision of hope here. He grounds God’s promises of the future in the great covenants of the Bible and their increasing scope until they climax in the incarnation where God became human in order that humans might become like God forever.

This is a talk lots of us have been waiting for—what kind of position should believers take in politics? Iain confronts the fear that many people hold – ie involving faith and politics will result in a kind of ‘Christian Taliban’. Many Christians feel caught in a no-man’s land between the hard choice of involvement and detachment. We want our faith to be involved in politics and society but fear becoming hardcore fundamentalists—the ‘Christian Taliban’ comment. But we also fear to retreat into a totally private world of faith. Iain’s talk charts a brilliant third way and as such is one of the most important talks you will ever hear.

Having diagnosed the deep roots of modern thinking Iain moves on to the consequences. What are the practical implications of living within the ‘Jerusalem’ mindset? This talk is simple and profound: living with the Jerusalem legacy means building our lives around three archetypal relationships: Our relationship with God and the creational vision of cosmic reality Our relationship with our neighbours—where we find we ARE our brother’s keepers Our relationship with the creation

The first talk from Iain Provan's series titled Seriously Dangerous Religion.

The eminent historian, Edwin Judge, takes us back to the mind of the Roman Empire as they faced the burgeoning growth of Christianity. Furthermore, he recreates the self-identity and characteristics that defined early Christianity—including that this new thing was not a 'religion' in the minds of either the Christians or the Romans. This jewel of a talk/interview merits a couple of hearings as it is packed with the depths and profundity of Edwin's lifelong journey.

Almost no doctrine is more controversial than 'original sin'. It has branded the Gospel as a dark message in the minds of many people—but most Christians just have a foggy notion of what it might mean. In this important talk, Tony challenges the mental models behind 'original sin' and then gives us a much richer model for sin—its beginnings and its imputation. Tony uses Romans 5 and the 'two Adams' to shine a better light on the topic, and then leaves us with suggestions as to how we might frame the Gospel differently in the light of these insights.

One of the great stumbling blocks to evangelism and faith is the doctrine of predestination. Calvin was the most vociferous advocate of it, and he built it around his belief in total depravity. But was he right. In this talk, Tony explains where Calvin went wrong because his frame was limited. Tony turns to Ephesians 1 and builds a much grander picture of what predestination means.

Tony looks at the prayers of the church in Revelation and compares them to the prayers of the angels. The difference shines the light on a radical humanism—because the church (i.e. humanity) sees so much more than the angels do, and is closer to the heart of God. This opens the door to a radical humanism based on the incarnation of Jesus.

In this breathtaking overview, Rikk Watts zooms across the landscape of the four gospels and puts them all in a historical and biographical context. He argues that their narrative structure is their most defining feature—and that in fact, the narrative structure implies a breakthrough new theology. His climactic point is that this structure was the brainwave of Jesus himself.

This talk finishes our study of Hebrews by fitting the famous chapter on Faith—chapter 11—into the overall argument of the book. This humanises faith and takes it out of its religious connotations. We finish the talk with a grand architecture of the entire book as a massive chiastic structure. This structure helps uphold the entire argument in the palm of our hand—and it reinforces the epic superiority of Jesus to all of law and religion.

Tony keeps exploring how 'resurrection' reframes 'judgment'. In this talk, he focuses on 'inheritance' as the dominant motif for the latter part of Hebrews and develops the theme that this is a double-edged sword. It expands our vision of God's plans for us, but it also sobers us as God is trusting us with an awesome responsibility.

In our previous talks on Hebrews, we revealed the strong foundation built by Apollos through Melchizedek and the resurrection, a foundation that renders the law obsolete. Now the question is, how does he build on that? How does he build accountability, how does he build responsibility, on top of all this wondrous talk of the resurrection? In this talk, we open a door to an expansive new paradigm, something we will continue exploring in future talks. The key to this new paradigm can be found in his extraordinary use of “the word being made perfect”. It’s a very strong theme in Hebrews, and it’s applied first to Jesus, and then to us. Just as the resurrection was first applied to Jesus, and then applies to us. He was there creating the universe, sustaining the universe. So what mental model does Hebrews have around this claim that the divine Logos, the Christ, went through some kind of process of perfection? Being made perfect? What does this mean? If we can crack that, if we can get inside that, we’ll open a door to what our trajectory and pathway is. Because the whole argument of Hebrews is that we should fix our eyes on the Logos, on the Divine, on the Christ. As we do that the implications for our lives will become clear. That’s the bundle of ideas in this talk. God bless you. And enjoy it.

Drawing on Nietzsche, Professor Volf will explore two pervasive and mutually reinforcing nihilisms of our time—our misplaced search for meaning, and our wrongheaded pursuit of pleasure—and counter common critiques of religion by arguing that faith in God intensifies and deepens the enjoyment of the world, uniting both meaning and pleasure. Professor Volf will tie this in with his personal story, his speech at the UN at the time of 9/11, and his participation in the World Economic Forum’s Global Agenda Councils.

Drawing on Nietzsche, Professor Volf will explore two pervasive and mutually reinforcing nihilisms of our time—our misplaced search for meaning, and our wrongheaded pursuit of pleasure—and counter common critiques of religion by arguing that faith in God intensifies and deepens the enjoyment of the world, uniting both meaning and pleasure. Professor Volf will tie this in with his personal story, his speech at the UN at the time of 9/11, and his participation in the World Economic Forum’s Global Agenda Councils.

Drawing on Nietzsche, Professor Volf will explore two pervasive and mutually reinforcing nihilisms of our time—our misplaced search for meaning, and our wrongheaded pursuit of pleasure—and counter common critiques of religion by arguing that faith in God intensifies and deepens the enjoyment of the world, uniting both meaning and pleasure. Professor Volf will tie this in with his personal story, his speech at the UN at the time of 9/11, and his participation in the World Economic Forum’s Global Agenda Councils.

In this fourth talk Tony explores Hebrews 7-10 where Apollos brushes aside Moses' law as 'useless' and in its place paints an epic picture of Christ's grand entrance to the heaven of heavens after his ascension and his establishment of a new covenant between God and humanity, and his building of a true eternal tabernacle—a new created order in which matter and physicality can finally contain glory and thus commune with God freely.

In this talk we move past the grand opening of Hebrews into the guts of the argument; how Jesus is superior to the entire religious system of the law but not only that—how he has totally eclipsed the religious system of law and Moses with the 'system of the resurrection'. All of these grand themes are crystallised in the strange governing theme of 'Melchizedek'. We unpack all of that in this talk—and we also confront the scariest passage in the NT along the way! May this bless you and help transform your minds.

Hebrews opens with two very important chapters that take Jesus out of the religious box, lifting him to the Maker of the Universe. From that lofty position, Apollos makes his biggest move and uses Psalm 8 to put humanity right there beside Jesus—ruling the cosmos. Through his explorations, Tony will translate these rich theological themes into in language that speaks to our world today.

The Epistle to the Hebrews breaks new ground in the debate over religion and grace. In this talk we look at who wrote it, and what problem it is trying to solve—really important questions since it is such an alien book to us modern people in many ways. We delve into the book of Acts in detail and uncover the deep struggle between Jerusalem and Rome that defined the faith in its early days. And we find in the writer to the Hebrews, the man who arguably took over the baton of thought leadership in the early church from Paul and pushed the gospel to its natural boundaries far from the confining views of Jerusalem.

Dr Sarah Golsby-Smith will be giving her second talk on "Reading the Bible as Literature". In her first talk, she introduced us to the rich resources that a literary reading brings to the Bible. In this talk, she will take a deeper dive in Genesis and give us a more detailed picture of these exciting tools at work in a major book.

Dr Sarah Golsby-Smith takes us on a journey to discover the riches of reading the Bible using the toolkits and methods of literary analysis. She argues that Christians tend to read the Bible as an instruction manual—not literature—and this narrows its richness and indeed our view of God. Instead, she opens up the more living and vast world of reading the Bible literature.

What do we mean when we say "The Bible is the Word of God"? Does the Bible itself make this claim? In today's postmodern world we cannot afford to make glib claims like this—we need to think through what we mean. In this talk, Tony goes back to literary and rhetorical theory to lay a much stronger foundation for how we should treat the Bible, and interpret it.

To wrap up the year we structured this event differently. Instead of a talk, we had a time of dialogue structured by the question, “What areas of interest and questions have Gospel Conversations raised for you this year?” We push the boundaries in Gospel Conversations, but often don’t have the time to explore the ideas further on the nights after the talks. We didn't aim to always arrive at clear cut answers since some topics may simply be too complex for us to come to easy conclusions about.

Following three remarkable talks by Professor Edwin Judge, Mark has been tracing Paul’s role in three great shifts in western thought and life: from Closed Cosmos to Open Cosmos, from Closed Society to Open Society, and from Closed Heart to Open Heart. In this last session, Mark will focus on how Paul’s translation of the gospel ends the obligation to the law and the grip of morality, religion, and superstition. On the back of his implicit critiques of dualism (Closed Cosmos) rank and status (Closed Society), Paul built an unprecedented vision of every person as unique, equal, and gifted. What emerges is a renewed sense of calling as an empowered agency within the world.

Last month Mark began his series building the picture of the apostle Paul’s extraordinary contribution to the shape of western thought and society. These are legacies in which we all live whatever our convictions. This month Mark focuses on how grace opened the way for a society without the markers of ethnicity, gender, status or religion, marked instead by love and gifting. Mark will also outline why he reads Paul, contrary to many scholars, as a radical advocate on behalf of women.

More and more philosophers recognise that the three giants of classical thought, and the shapers of western thought down to our day, are Plato, Aristotle and—Paul. In large part, Plato and Aristotle refined and codified a tradition much older than themselves. But Paul represents the great turning point of western thought away from the hold of classical tradition. In three recent seminal talks, Professor Edwin Judge demonstrated how the story of Jesus implied three great shifts: from Closed Cosmos to Open Cosmos from Closed Society to Open Society from Closed Heart to Open Heart In three further sessions Mark, who studied with Edwin, will show how Paul’s translation of the Gospel affected these three shifts. Taking Paul out of the religious framework where many have boxed him, Mark will help us appreciate the vast, pervasive, and revolutionary impact he has had on the whole world, not just Christianity. Mark will base his sessions on Paul’s extraordinary letter to his friends living within the shadow of Caesar in Rome.

More and more philosophers recognise that the three giants of classical thought, and the shapers of western thought down to our day, are Plato, Aristotle and—Paul. In large part, Plato and Aristotle refined and codified a tradition much older than themselves. But Paul represents the great turning point of western thought away from the hold of classical tradition. In three recent seminal talks, Professor Edwin Judge demonstrated how the story of Jesus implied three great shifts: from Closed Cosmos to Open Cosmos from Closed Society to Open Society from Closed Heart to Open Heart In three further sessions Mark, who studied with Edwin, will show how Paul’s translation of the Gospel affected these three shifts. Taking Paul out of the religious framework where many have boxed him, Mark will help us appreciate the vast, pervasive, and revolutionary impact he has had on the whole world, not just Christianity. Mark will base his sessions on Paul’s extraordinary letter to his friends living within the shadow of Caesar in Rome.

This month we welcome Rikk Watts from Regent College, Canada to talk on Mark's Gospel. In Gospel Conversations, we like to peel back the layers and get close to the core of what we believe. You can’t get closer to the core than Mark’s Gospel—the shortest and the first of the four biographies of Jesus. It used to be viewed as the simplest and least sophisticated of the gospels but that has changed in recent times, and now Mark is viewed more and more as a great literary text in its own right. Rikk Watts is one key thinker leading this new appreciation of Mark and of Mark's role, in giving the world its greatest every story. But can we believe the story? Is it myth or history? And if we can believe it, how do we read it intelligently? How can we get back behind two thousand years of culture to read like the world Mark wrote it for? How do we get a new conversation going with Mark's gospel? Most importantly what does Mark tell us about Jesus? Does he really claim that Jesus was the Son of God? If so, what did he mean by this? Rikk will build us a breathtaking picture of Jesus, as viewed by Mark. He will peel back the layers of tradition and put us squarely in the first-century world that was first rocked by this story. But we won’t stop there, we will also ask the ‘So what?’ question. What are the consequences of this story? How should we then live? We will answer these questions through three minds. Rikk, Mark Strom, and Tony Golsby-Smith have been talking about this ‘so what’ world for years together, and this is our first opportunity to get on the same stage together. So Rikk will address it from the perspective of Mark’s gospel. Mark Strom will then address it through the window of history (How did the story change the world of the first and second centuries?). And Tony will address it through the world of a twenty-first-century business consultant encouraging large organisations and their leaders to redesign themselves. We three believe that we have put the gospel in a religious box for too long and it is time to take it out. After all, we believe that this big story changes EVERYTHING, not just church and religion.

This month we welcome Rikk Watts from Regent College, Canada to talk on Mark's Gospel. In Gospel Conversations, we like to peel back the layers and get close to the core of what we believe. You can’t get closer to the core than Mark’s Gospel—the shortest and the first of the four biographies of Jesus. It used to be viewed as the simplest and least sophisticated of the gospels but that has changed in recent times, and now Mark is viewed more and more as a great literary text in its own right. Rikk Watts is one key thinker leading this new appreciation of Mark and of Mark's role, in giving the world its greatest every story. But can we believe the story? Is it myth or history? And if we can believe it, how do we read it intelligently? How can we get back behind two thousand years of culture to read like the world Mark wrote it for? How do we get a new conversation going with Mark's gospel? Most importantly what does Mark tell us about Jesus? Does he really claim that Jesus was the Son of God? If so, what did he mean by this? Rikk will build us a breathtaking picture of Jesus, as viewed by Mark. He will peel back the layers of tradition and put us squarely in the first-century world that was first rocked by this story. But we won’t stop there, we will also ask the ‘So what?’ question. What are the consequences of this story? How should we then live? We will answer these questions through three minds. Rikk, Mark Strom and Tony Golsby-Smith have been talking about this ‘so what’ world for years together, and this is our first opportunity to get on the same stage together. So Rikk will address it from the perspective of Mark’s gospel. Mark Strom will then address it through the window of history (How did the story change the world of the first and second centuries?). And Tony will address it through the world of a twenty-first-century business consultant encouraging large organisations and their leaders to redesign themselves. We three believe that we have put the gospel in a religious box for too long and it is time to take it out. After all, we believe that this big story changes EVERYTHING, not just church and religion.

This month we welcome Rikk Watts from Regent College, Canada to talk on Mark's Gospel. In Gospel Conversations, we like to peel back the layers and get close to the core of what we believe. You can’t get closer to the core than Mark’s Gospel—the shortest and the first of the four biographies of Jesus. It used to be viewed as the simplest and least sophisticated of the gospels but that has changed in recent times, and now Mark is viewed more and more as a great literary text in its own right. Rikk Watts is one key thinker leading this new appreciation of Mark and of Mark's role, in giving the world its greatest every story. But can we believe the story? Is it myth or history? And if we can believe it, how do we read it intelligently? How can we get back behind two thousand years of culture to read like the world Mark wrote it for? How do we get a new conversation going with Mark's gospel? Most importantly what does Mark tell us about Jesus? Does he really claim that Jesus was the Son of God? If so, what did he mean by this? Rikk will build us a breathtaking picture of Jesus, as viewed by Mark. He will peel back the layers of tradition and put us squarely in the first-century world that was first rocked by this story. But we won’t stop there, we will also ask the ‘So what?’ question. What are the consequences of this story? How should we then live? We will answer these questions through three minds. Rikk, Mark Strom, and Tony Golsby-Smith have been talking about this ‘so what’ world for years together, and this is our first opportunity to get on the same stage together. So Rikk will address it from the perspective of Mark’s gospel. Mark Strom will then address it through the window of history (How did the story change the world of the first and second centuries?). And Tony will address it through the world of a twenty-first-century business consultant encouraging large organisations and their leaders to redesign themselves. We three believe that we have put the gospel in a religious box for too long and it is time to take it out. After all, we believe that this big story changes EVERYTHING, not just church and religion.

This month we welcome Rikk Watts from Regent College, Canada to talk on Mark's Gospel. In Gospel Conversations, we like to peel back the layers and get close to the core of what we believe. You can’t get closer to the core than Mark’s Gospel—the shortest and the first of the four biographies of Jesus. It used to be viewed as the simplest and least sophisticated of the gospels but that has changed in recent times, and now Mark is viewed more and more as a great literary text in its own right. Rikk Watts is one key thinker leading this new appreciation of Mark and of Mark's role, in giving the world its greatest every story. But can we believe the story? Is it myth or history? And if we can believe it, how do we read it intelligently? How can we get back behind two thousand years of culture to read like the world Mark wrote it for? How do we get a new conversation going with Mark's gospel? Most importantly what does Mark tell us about Jesus? Does he really claim that Jesus was the Son of God? If so, what did he mean by this? Rikk will build us a breathtaking picture of Jesus, as viewed by Mark. He will peel back the layers of tradition and put us squarely in the first-century world that was first rocked by this story. But we won’t stop there, we will also ask the ‘So what?’ question. What are the consequences of this story? How should we then live? We will answer these questions through three minds. Rikk, Mark Strom, and Tony Golsby-Smith have been talking about this ‘so what’ world for years together, and this is our first opportunity to get on the same stage together. So Rikk will address it from the perspective of Mark’s gospel. Mark Strom will then address it through the window of history (How did the story change the world of the first and second centuries?). And Tony will address it through the world of a twenty-first-century business consultant encouraging large organisations and their leaders to redesign themselves. We three believe that we have put the gospel in a religious box for too long and it is time to take it out. After all, we believe that this big story changes EVERYTHING, not just church and religion.

This month we welcome Rikk Watts from Regent College, Canada to talk on Mark's Gospel. In Gospel Conversations, we like to peel back the layers and get close to the core of what we believe. You can’t get closer to the core than Mark’s Gospel—the shortest and the first of the four biographies of Jesus. It used to be viewed as the simplest and least sophisticated of the gospels but that has changed in recent times, and now Mark is viewed more and more as a great literary text in its own right. Rikk Watts is one key thinker leading this new appreciation of Mark and of Mark's role, in giving the world its greatest every story. But can we believe the story? Is it myth or history? And if we can believe it, how do we read it intelligently? How can we get back behind two thousand years of culture to read like the world Mark wrote it for? How do we get a new conversation going with Mark's gospel? Most importantly what does Mark tell us about Jesus? Does he really claim that Jesus was the Son of God? If so, what did he mean by this? Rikk will build us a breathtaking picture of Jesus, as viewed by Mark. He will peel back the layers of tradition and put us squarely in the first-century world that was first rocked by this story. But we won’t stop there, we will also ask the ‘So what?’ question. What are the consequences of this story? How should we then live? We will answer these questions through three minds. Rikk, Mark Strom and Tony Golsby-Smith have been talking about this ‘so what’ world for years together, and this is our first opportunity to get on the same stage together. So Rikk will address it from the perspective of Mark’s gospel. Mark Strom will then address it through the window of history (How did the story change the world of the first and second centuries?). And Tony will address it through the world of a twenty-first-century business consultant encouraging large organisations and their leaders to redesign themselves. We three believe that we have put the gospel in a religious box for too long and it is time to take it out. After all, we believe that this big story changes EVERYTHING, not just church and religion.

Edwin Judge interviewed by Tony-Golsby-Smith: What does it mean to be a human being? What does it mean to be a good human being? Edwin will challenge some of our basic assumptions around these 2 central questions. He will challenge the view that the immortality of the soul is a basic Christian belief and the view that all values are much the same and arise from mere common sense.

Dr Tony Golsby-Smith interviews Professor Edwin Judge on the history of the open society that we take for granted. He argues that without understanding the origin of our freedom, we are in danger of losing it.

This month Tony Golsby-Smith interviews Edwin Judge. As one of Australia’s most admired History professors, Edwin offers us an invaluable perspective on one of the most important and misunderstood topics of our time—the fraught relationship between science and faith. He turns the tables upside down on the commonly accepted view that the Greeks gave us science but Christianity screwed that up with the myths of faith. This rich philosophical talk is a must for anyone who suspects that you can believe without losing your mind… but would like some more facts to be sure.

Ron finishes his series on Tzimtzum with a stunning and simple talk on Jesus as the ultimate expression of God's 'Tzimtzum' character. But Tzimtzum is about more than character—it is about how God works. So Ron paints a gorgeous picture of Jesus as Governor of the created order—and our invitation to sit beside him. This is rare and profound material. Ron's framework of God could well have spared the early church their vexed debates on exactly what the 'divinity' of Jesus means.

Ron continues his talk on Tzimtzum. With an introduction from Tony, we look for an articulation of the wonder of what Christ has done with a logic that is not rooted in sin and redemption.

This talk will expand your horizons and blow your minds—in a good way. Ron, building on his Jewish heritage, begins with Job and the complexity of life. It isn't straightforward or fair. He then traces how the great Jewish thinkers combed through the OT for centuries looking for answers to Job's big questions. They came up with the brilliant concept of 'Tzimtzum' around the 11th century AD. In essence—it means God's greatness manifests itself in containment and concealment, not explosive 'power'. Elijah's still small voice. We finish with a picture of God that seems to point straight to Jesus and the mystery of the Cross. You will have to listen a couple of times!!

What do we mean by calling the Bible 'The Word of God'? In this talk, Tony addresses this question from first principles. He steps right back and begins with God's intention to communicate. From there he builds a model of revelation that begins with history and the great Jewish belief that their God participates in this narrative of life. From there he explains the second layer—people commenting on the history in the form of texts. And all of this is in pursuit of the third layer—the knowledge of God for the purpose of relating to him. Having constructed a grand architecture like this, Tony repositions the Bible as part of the plan, not the whole plan.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

John is Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College. He has pioneered the study of Ancient Near Eastern cosmology and its impact on our understanding of the Old Testament—and the work of Moses and Genesis in particular. This kind of study has only been possible in recent years as vast treasures of ancient texts and inscriptions are being discovered and translated. The result is that we understand the cosmology of ancient peoples in far more depth than previous generations.

In this talk, we look at the existential aspect of Trinitarian growth—the inner journey. We get quite practical and offer a structured meditation technique based on learning from experience, not on confession and sin. Tony gives personal examples of the way he has used journal writing for many years to stimulate the inner journey. So many of our models for growth are based on defeating sin—but in this important talk, we offer a new paradigm for inner growth that is not based on sin but grace and growth.

In this talk, we look at the 'situational' aspect of our growth and calling. How do we act in this world? Christians through the ages have been torn between the 'monk' and the 'merchant' for their choices. We offer a paradigm shift by going back to Genesis and grounding our answer in the creational mandate. We link this mandate with kingship and then try to modernise that term by equating it with transformation and design. This is a groundbreaking topic, and we are only beginning the dialogue in this talk but I think it launches us on a healthy trajectory.

In this talk, we look at the 'normative' aspect of Trinity thinking. Our learning goal is to have our minds transformed to God's agenda rather than ours. We look at the typical evangelical interpretation of the gospel and reveal its shortcomings. Tony does that by synthesising the four spiritual laws onto a one-page architecture which reveals its shortcomings. He then asks, "Is there a better way?" and finishes by offering an alternative framing of the gospel that blows open the scope of Christ's achievement and lifts our thinking to awesome heights. A must listen talk!!

Tony argues that we have narrowed Christian growth by framing it as a religious effort. He spends the first part of this talk, diagnosing the religious mindset and explaining how it distorts the gospel. But the question becomes, "Is there a better way to frame our growth journey?" Tony turns to the structure of the Trinity as the architecture for what makes us truly human and thus truly Christlike. He offers a simple but powerful Trinitarian model to guide our growth agenda—as a life agenda rather than a religious agenda.

Ron moves on to the topic of cosmology—ie what is the origin of the universe. This is mind-boggling stuff and dwarfs the more conventional 'evolution' debates. He explains the anthropic principle that is fast emerging among scientists and which is ironically putting this little old earth back at the centre of attention. He describes the earth as the ark of humanity—a wonder of life in the midst of a barren universe. He contrasts the scientific view of cosmology with the Jewish view. Listen for some of the great discussion here—particularly as we develop the metaphor of the car to explain all of this.

Ron confronts the question, "How well does Genesis 1 fit in with the new science?" Most people wonder whether Genesis fits with evolution, but Ron takes a far broader view and compares the implications of Genesis with cosmology—the theory of relativity and the origins of the universe. He concludes that Genesis is surprisingly modern, although it does not try to be a science textbook. Then he compares the whole secular and Greek view of reality with its great rival the Jewish tradition—a topic he will develop in his next talk.

In this talk, Tony opens up how the doctrine of the Trinity frames our whole role in creation. The creating God has mandated that we humans will continue his expansive work in creation. We can only do this, by sharing his nature, which equips us to be Trinitarian agents. This culminates in the rule of God. Tony then suggests how this stupendous framework challenges the agenda for sin-based Christianity. He declares that we need to reframe the agenda of the Christian life away from religion towards co-creation.

Tony builds a breathtaking theory of human creativity in this talk. He begins by critiquing the dominance of the scientific method as the only road to truth. He points out that this dominance has been hostile to faith, and has patronised faith as anti-intellectual. But he points out the limitations of scientific logic, and in particular, its anti-humanistic assumptions. Then he offers an alternative thinking methodology whose origins he finds in Aristotle, whose ultimate manifestation he finds in all of human creativity (including strategy) - and whose mandate he finds in Genesis 1 and 2 and the command to rule creation. This talk summarises Tony's PhD thesis. If anyone wants to explore further reading on this, email tony on tony.gs@secondroad.com.au

This is part two of Tony's talk on the Trinity and creativity. Having established the intrinsical creativity character of the Trinity, he moves onto the role of humanity in this creative process as 'trinitarian agents'. At the end of the talk, he addresses the question of the role of sin and the 'Fall' in this otherwise optimistic and expansive picture. Again, a set of Powerpoint slides accompanies this talk (see the slides called 'Trinitarian agents'.

This talk comes in two parts. In this the first part, Tony outlines why the creative act lies at the heart of the Trinitarian Godhead. He bases this part of the talk on Jonathan Edwards' great essay "The Ends for which God Created the Worlds". Look out for a very important interaction with Mark Strom towards the end of the talk, which turns the Christian engagement with the world on its head - from 'application' to 'discovery'. There are Powerpoint slides to accompany the talk which are on the website, so use them as you listen. Enjoy!

Tony introduces 'language' as the archetypal view of the Trinity. He argues that the 'Trinity' is the utterly novel invention of the Christian church - it is an enigma that is unique and central to the Christian belief system. We do well to peer into it. He explains how the doctrine developed in the fourth century, and then how it slipped into neglect after the Reformation. The climax of the talk is the stunning moves Jonathan Edwards made to not only recover the Trinity but to lift the whole debate to a new breathtaking level. This new view radically reshapes how we look at creation and ourselves. Listen to the talk with the accompanying Powerpoint slides.

Ron takes his discussion of the new physics beyond matter to mind and language. Is matter the ultimate reality? Last time we discovered there is more mystery to matter than most people realise. But this time we move into the even more important question of whether matter is the only building block of the universe - or whether the mind and language, are just as primary as matter. Of course, it suits materialists like Dawkins to say that matter is the only real stuff. But Ron challenges that view here. He introduces us to the 400-year-old debate over this topic and shows how inadequate a 'matter is all that matters' view really is.

Ron opens up for us the wonder of the ‘new physics’ that restored mystery to matter in the 20th century. If you think that we get more concrete, the closer we get to atoms and molecules, you will never think that way again after hearing Ron’s talk. In fact the closer we get to matter—the little ‘bits’ of it, the closer we get to mystery and strangeness. Please note that Ron used an extensive set of Powerpoint slides to support his talk. We have posted these slides on the Gospel Conversations website so you can follow the slides through as you listen to his talk.

Mark explains how the knowledge of good and evil (morality and binary thinking) has captured our minds and distorts Christianity into a religion rather than life. A mind-blowing and life-changing message.

Iain finishes by showing how we can read the NT in the light of the OT, and so get a richer reading of the NT. He uses the book of Jonah as a case study. First, he expounds Jonah as an OT text, and then he turns to the NT and some of the Jonah references implied in the life of Jesus. He looks at 'covert' connections between the OT and the NT.

Ian answers lots of questions arising from his talks, and from people's general worries or questions about the 'hard questions' around God and the OT.

Having given an overview of the Israel story Iain moves on to ask the question, "What good is the law?" to us today. He gives us a sensible and balanced view of this question, and really opens up the way for pragmatism as well as idealism.

Iain gives us a breathtakingly succinct overview of the Old Testament story in this talk. He does not just summarise it, he captures the major themes through the window of covenants. This talk is worth listening to over and over again as it gives us what we mostly lack - the OT as a coherent story with strong themes.

Having given us the OT view of God, Iain moves onto the Genesis view of creation. He builds a lot of his argument around Genesis 1 which sees creation as 'temple'. It means that matter is not a problem as it was for the ancient world, and escaping matter is not the goal. Our goal is to restore matter and the created order so that it can contain glory.

Iain now launches into the distinctive message of the OT beginning with Genesis—Who is God? Having covered the ANE context, he can give the OT answer to this question in a much richer light. We start to see just how new and fresh, the Genesis picture of God is, and how blessed we are to have this revelation. The view of God is so much grander and yet so much more intimate than anyone in human history had ever imagined. Enjoy and admire afresh how great God is!!

Iain argues that we cannot do justice to the OT without understanding the context in which it was written—in this case, that means the 'ancient near eastern world', primarily of Egypt and Mesopotamia. Most of us probably view that kind of historical context as interesting but not vital and certainly not inspiring. Iain's talk will blow that away. Once we grasp the sheer darkness and limitations of the ancient mind, we begin to realise that the OT was new and spectacularly human-centred in its day. It created the paradigms and thought structures that the whole modern world benefits from - but largely takes for granted. Listen and be stunned.

Iain began his Old Testament series by teaching how not to read the OT. He describes seven ways that people often misread the OT and how this gets us into trouble. Not only do they lead us into error but they dilute the power of the text to really talk to us, and challenge us. He gives us a great example of how the Song of Songs has been misread throughout history to illustrate his point.

Moses led Israel by giving them a new story. This talk explains the architecture of transformational stories - using 2nd Road's ACDB model. Tony uses the ACDB model to diagnose the architecture of Moses' new story. Once we learn this architecture we can use it in our lives and leadership to transform situations. Of course, Moses was unique. In this talk, we make the claim that Moses was probably the greatest social innovator in history.   The book on Jonathan Edwards that Tony mentioned is called 'The Philosophical Theology of Jonathan Edwards' by Sang Hyun Lee published by Princeton Press.

Moses led Israel by giving them a new story. This talk explains the architecture of transformational stories - using 2nd Road's ACDB model. Tony uses the ACDB model to diagnose the architecture of Moses' new story. Once we learn this architecture we can use it in our lives and leadership to transform situations. Of course, Moses was unique. In this talk, we make the claim that Moses was probably the greatest social innovator in history.