Nobody Should Believe Me

Andrea is joined by science journalist Tara Haelle for a conversation about vaccines, vaccine hesitancy, and the rise of science denialism. They discuss common concerns about vaccine safety, and Tara shares her thoughts on how to approach conversations about vaccines with curiosity rather than judgment. *** Read Tara’s book: https://sites.google.com/view/tara-haelle/books Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the fallout from John Cox’s case fractures the staff at Children’s Wisconsin, communication breaks down and other children are left at risk. With NBC journalist Mike Hixenbaugh’s reporting helping fuel the growing divide, the story of John Cox becomes part of a much larger battle over child abuse pediatrics and whose voices get heard. Featuring Expert: Matthew Torbenson, Deputy District Attorney with the Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office Mark Hudson, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fifteen year-old Stacie Love was just a sophomore when she met the young, charismatic English teacher, Brett Fischer. He was the "cool" teacher, and she wanted to be his favorite student. Twenty years later, Stacie sees the dynamic differently—and wonders if what felt like happenstance was something far more calculated. -- Listen to Not Just A Terrible Story: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-just-a-terrible-story/id6808732343 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Cox’s plea deal brings the criminal case to an end, but the story is far from over. As Cox and his wife turn their attention to a lawsuit against Children’s Wisconsin, the damage from the case, and the media narrative surrounding it, balloons.  Featuring Expert: Matthew Torbenson, Deputy District Attorney with the Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office Mark Hudson, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For months, John Cox tells doctors, CPS, law enforcement, and the media that he accidentally rolled onto his infant daughter while they were sleeping. But when a new piece of evidence is uncovered, Cox’s narrative is turned on its head.  Featuring Expert: Matthew Torbenson, Deputy District Attorney with the Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office Mark Hudson, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. John Cox is investigated for abuse after doctors at his own hospital find unexplained injuries on his infant daughter. As the case unfolds, a media narrative takes hold, casting Cox as the victim of an overzealous medical system. But, as always, there’s more to this story. Featuring Expert: Matthew Torbenson, Deputy District Attorney with the Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office *** To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After the end of a season, some cases leave questions that are difficult to let go. In Nobody Should Believe Me’s first-ever special report, Andrea takes a closer look at the case of Dr. John Cox: What happens when a doctor is investigated by his own hospital system? How do the media and the court of public opinion influence an investigation? And what happens when the systems meant to protect children break down? Subscribe on Patreon or Apple Plus to binge the entire four-part series on September 17. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Baltimore, Maryland likes to call itself Charm City. But you have to wonder: Is the nickname ironic? Consider one of the city's star cops, a sergeant so accomplished that he earned his own nickname, the Golden Boy. But Golden Boy led a double life. Said one of those who encountered him in the street. "I was robbed by the Baltimore City Police….with a gun … armed robbery." No one believed the allegation. Then a GPS tracker was discovered where it shouldn't have been; next, a wiretap went up on a cop's phone. An FBI agent couldn't believe what she was hearing. Are these guys  gangsters? And then … an insider turned witness. "Like Rambo said, burn it down. And that's what I did." Welcome to Charm City, where it was sometimes difficult to tell the protectors from the predators. A podcast from Orbit Media reported and produced by the BBC and hosted by Jessica Lussenhop. ** Listen to Bad Cops: https://podcasts.apple.com/am/podcast/the-burden/id1734312219 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea continues her conversation with The Final Hours hosts Sarah Turney and Kourtney Nichole about the realities of creating true crime content. They talk about the emotional toll of repeatedly telling difficult stories, navigating criticism and threats online, and the complicated relationship between advocacy, journalism, and lived experience. The three also discuss the responsibility creators and audiences have to center victims, follow the evidence, and remember the real people behind these cases. *** Listen to The Final Hours: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-final-hours-with-sarah-turney-and-kourtney-nichole/id1872821250 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part 1 of Andrea’s conversation with the co-hosts of The Final Hours, Sarah Turney and Kourtney Nichole, the trio talks about what it means to cover true crime when crime is already part of your own family history. They discuss uncovering difficult truths about people they love and what they’ve learned about the justice system along the way.  *** Listen to The Final Hours: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-final-hours-with-sarah-turney-and-kourtney-nichole/id1872821250 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we're joined by Andrea Dunlop, host of Nobody Should Believe Me, to examine the haunting case of Madeleine McCann. On the evening of May 3, 2007, three-year-old Madeleine McCann vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant. What followed became the most publicized missing child investigation in modern history. The global media spectacle turned her parents into suspects, generated more heat than light, and produced decades of leads that went nowhere. A German national was formally named a suspect in 2020, but no charges have been filed. Behind the noise of international coverage, a small child simply disappeared. *** Listen to The Final Hours: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-final-hours-with-sarah-turney-and-kourtney-nichole/id1872821250 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Her critics say Gypsy Rose Blanchard can't keep her story straight. So Javier sat down with her for almost three hours and asked about all of it. The pills through the feeding tube. The video where she tells Nick Godejohn she'd been hiding that she could walk since she was seven. And the Demona videos she has never addressed in front of a reporter. *** Listen to PRETEND: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretend/id1245307962 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gypsy Rose Blanchard is the most beloved convicted murderer in America. Half the country sees a victim. The other half thinks she conned everyone, including her mother. Javier spent months trying to figure out which side is telling the truth. Then he emailed Gypsy. A few hours later, they were on a call. *** Listen to PRETEND: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretend/id1245307962 View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After listening to Love Trapped, Andrea invited host Stephani Young to discuss the investigation behind the series. Together, they explore what happens when evidence collides with public perception, why stories like this resonate so deeply, and the responsibility that comes with telling them. *** Listen to Love Trapped: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-trapped/id1878220033 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea is joined by two fan favorites, Chalice Howard and Mishelle Roberts. They catch up on life, reflect on how their friendships began through Nobody Should Believe Me, and share stories from their "Unhinged Memoir Book Club" group chat. They also discuss their recent listen of Love Trapped, a podcast about the years-long campaign of deception and false pregnancy claims surrounding former Bachelor lead Clayton Echard.  Subscribe on Patreon or Apple Podcasts for Part Two, where they discuss the books that have taken over their group chat! *** Listen to Love Trapped: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-trapped/id1878220033 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rob Scheer grew up in the foster care system, aging out and experiencing homelessness before eventually becoming a foster and adoptive parent himself. In his book, A Forever Family, and through his nonprofit, Comfort Cases, Rob has made it his mission to change the way we think about children in the welfare system. In this conversation, he reflects on his own experiences on both sides of it. Rob and Andrea also talk about the profound difference one caring adult can make in a child’s life, and why sometimes it only takes one person to help break a cycle. *** Just a note that today’s episode includes mention of suicide. If you or someone you know needs help please call 988 or visit 988lifeline.org *** https://comfortcases.org/ Read A Forever Family: https://shop.comfortcases.org/shop/signed-copy-of-a-forever-family-by-rob-scheer Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part two of Andrea's conversation with foster care pediatrician Dr. Anu Partap, they move beyond debates about child welfare reform to examine what actually helps keep children safe. Together, they explore the role of community support, the realities of foster care, and why addressing trauma and children's health must remain at the center of the conversation.  *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Anu Partap has spent decades caring for children and families at the intersection of medicine and child welfare. In this first part of Andrea's conversation with the foster care pediatrician, they explore what actually happens when children enter foster care, why reunification—not permanent separation—is the goal in most cases, and how trauma, poverty, and abuse create far more complex realities than the public often sees. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea and Jordan Harbinger wrap up their conversation with a deeper look at Netflix's Inside the Manosphere, unpacking the business behind these influencers and why so many young men are drawn into these communities. They discuss what healthy masculinity can look like and why building community may be the most important antidote of all. *** Listen to The Jordan Harbinger Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jordan-harbinger-show/id1344999619 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Longtime friend and fellow podcaster Jordan Harbinger joins Andrea for a conversation about deception, persuasion, and the rise of the online manosphere. From professional con artists to internet grifters, they explore why manipulation works, why anyone can become a target, and how these dynamics connect to the stories covered on Nobody Should Believe Me. Part two drops tomorrow. *** Listen to The Jordan Harbinger Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jordan-harbinger-show/id1344999619 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we're sharing Andrea's extended Season 7 conversation with professor and author Alan Dettlaff. Together they explore the history of the child welfare system, the tension between protecting children and preserving families, and the difficult questions that emerge when both goals are in conflict. It's a thoughtful conversation that embraces complexity without pretending there are easy answers. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

During our Season 7 conversation about the parents' rights movement, Andrea spoke with Professor Elizabeth Bartholet, who recently retired from Harvard Law School after more than three decades focused on child welfare, children's rights, and adoption. In this bonus episode, we're sharing more of that important conversation as they dig deeper into children's rights, the influence of advocacy groups on child welfare policy, and the broader debates shaping how abuse cases are understood in the media, the courts, and beyond. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this extended conversation from season 7, Andrea sits down with journalist and author Roxanna Asgarian. Together, they explore how media narratives shape public understanding of child protective systems and the parents' rights movement. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea and Myrriah are back for part two of our season seven mailbag, revisiting some of the conversations that generated the most discussion this season. As they reflect on some of the biggest themes of season seven, they unpack ongoing debates around child abuse investigations, public perceptions of child welfare, and the stories we tell about families, medicine, and harm. Along the way, they discuss what they've learned from survivors, experts, and listeners alike, while considering how systems meant to protect children can be both challenged and improved. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea and executive producer Myrriah are back on the mic for part one of our season seven mailbag episode: answering listener questions, reflecting on the stories that resonated most this season, and sharing some behind-the-scenes thoughts on the reporting process. From the reactions to John Stewart and the Knowellan Kelly case to ongoing conversations about abusive head trauma, media narratives, and Take Care of Maya, they dive into the questions that kept coming up as the season aired. Keep an eye out for part 2, coming tomorrow! *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Betrayal Weekly is back. Aaron was committed to supporting the woman he loved, no matter the cost. Then one day, he asked for receipts.   *** Listen to Betrayal Weekly: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/betrayal-weekly/id1615637724 If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow them on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts.  If you are currently in crisis, please reach out to organizations that offer immediate support. We are including a few US-based resources here: 988 Lifeline.  If you or someone you know is in crisis or need to talk to someone immediately, please call or text 988 – the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline available 24/7/365.  National Domestic Violence Hotline. They offer 24/7 phone and chat support to help you create a personalized safety plan and connect you with local support.   For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE.   Every state has a domestic violence coalition. If you’re looking for help in the US, search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the season seven finale, Andrea spoke with Kyle about his experience surviving Munchausen by proxy abuse. In this bonus episode, we're sharing an extended cut of that conversation, giving Kyle the space to tell his story in full. Despite losing years of his childhood to abuse, Kyle's journey is ultimately one of extraordinary resilience, survival, and reclaiming his own story. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus conversation, Andrea sits down with intimate partner violence researcher Jacquelyn Campbell to look at how complex issues like domestic violence and child abuse really are, compared to how simply they’re often portrayed. Together they explore what it might look like to intervene earlier and what it would take to build systems that recognize danger before tragedy strikes. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close our season, we hear from two people whose lives were forever altered by child abuse; and in doing so examine what’s really at stake when the media misrepresents child abuse cases and the work of child abuse doctors.   Featuring: Tara Haelle, Science Journalist *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the media weaves a narrative about evil doctors kidnapping children: the real harms caused by the child welfare system go unnoticed. Today we look at the case for strengthening children's rights as well as the case for replacing the child welfare system altogether.   Featuring: Roxanna Asgarian, Child Welfare Journalist Elizabeth Bartholet, Professor of Law at Harvard Law School Alan Dettlaff, Professor at the University of Houston Graduate College of Social Work *** Read Roxanna Asgarian’s We Were Once a Family: https://www.roxannaasgarianwrites.com/ Read Alan Dettlaff’s Confronting the Racist Legacy of the American Child Welfare System: https://www.amazon.com/Confronting-Racist-Legacy-American-Welfare/dp/0197675263 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why do all of these stories purporting false allegations of child abuse sound the same? If enough people have experienced the same thing, that must mean it’s true, right?  The truth is, as soon as you do a little digging, these cases begin to unravel. By taking a closer look into the cases featured in Serial’s The Preventionist and Mike Hixenbaugh’s Do No Harm, the copy and paste storytelling becomes apparent. Featuring: Tara Haelle, Science Journalist Dr. Jill Glick, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** Read No, shaken baby syndrome has not been discredited by Tara Haelle: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/shaken-baby-syndrome-diagnosis-real Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stories of “false” allegations of child abuse build on each other to paint the picture of a widespread problem that can affect anyone who brings there child into a hospital. None have made more of an impact than those featured in Take Care of Maya. The first half of this season was dedicated to John Stewart, and 15-month-old Knowellan Kelly, but what about the other 3 families shown at the end of Take Care of Maya? A story is spun about how these parents were wronged by the system, but there’s a stark omission of what actually happened to their children–how they ended up at the hospital in the first place. Today we look at the truth behind the narrative about Dr. Sally Smith.  Featuring: Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney Dr. Jill Glick, Child Abuse Pediatrician Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Child abuse pediatricians have become increasingly villainized in the media despite being among the most specialized and cautious doctors in child abuse medicine. Andrea looks at what these doctors actually do and why their role is so often misunderstood. Andrea also explores the rise of paid defense experts who offer alternative explanations in abuse cases that fall far outside the medical consensus.  Featuring Experts: Dr. Stephen Boos, Child Abuse Pediatrician Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney Dr. Jill Glick, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Stewart is arrested shortly after Knowellan’s death, but despite what appears to be strong evidence of abuse, the case against John is never taken to court. Andrea traces how we ended up here, ten years later, with no one held accountable for taking the life of a child. Featuring Experts: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Mike Weber, Former Crimes Against Children Detective Dr. Cathy Ayoub, Nurse Practitioner and Professor of Psychology at Harvard Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Investigators work to reconstruct Knowellan Kelly’s final hours in the care of John Stewart and his grandfather. John claims there is exculpatory evidence that proves he didn’t hurt Knowellen, but is that really the story the evidence tells?  Featuring: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Dr. Russell Vega, Medical Examiner *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After 15-month old Knowellan Kelly is rushed to the hospital following a seizure, doctors discover catastrophic injuries. Andrea walks through the medical evidence with experts whose findings point to repeated inflicted trauma. As investigators struggle to reconcile conflicting accounts from John Stewart and Knowellan’s mother and grandfather, a tangled web emerges.  Featuring: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Dr. Russell Vega, Medical Examiner Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney Dr. Stephen Boos, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** Vote for us for the Webby's People's Voice Award: https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/features/best-indie-podcast Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After John Stewart, a Florida man charged with–but never prosecuted for–the death of his girlfriend's 15-month old son reaches out to Andrea to tell her she’s all wrong about his case Andrea goes on a deep dive to find out what really happened to Knowellan Kelly, the baby who lost his life ten years ago. John–who was featured in Take Care of Maya–claims that doctors and investigators falsely accused him: but the truth turns out to be much more complicated.  *** Vote for us for the Webby's People's Voice Award: https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/features/best-indie-podcast Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Season Seven of Nobody Should Believe Me. Andrea revisits the case of Maya Kowalski—the story at the center of the Netflix film Take Care of Maya–and the family’s high-profile lawsuit against Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital. What became widely framed as a story about “medical kidnapping” began when hospital staff reported suspected medical child abuse after Maya arrived with a history of extreme ketamine treatments.  How did a case of horrific abuse become a story about evil doctors kidnapping children? Featuring: Ethen Shapiro, Attorney for Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital *** Listen to our 4-part recap of the Kowalski Case: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/revisiting-kowalski-part-one-the-turn/id1615637188?i=1000750439578 Listen to our season 3 coverage of the Kowalski Case: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s03-e01-special-report-watching-take-care-of-maya-re-release/id1615637188 Listen to Andrea and Dr. Bex’s coverage of the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins Trial: https://www.patreon.com/collection/548199 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Season 7 of the groundbreaking true crime podcast Nobody Should Believe Me investigates why so many Americans believe doctors are “medically kidnapping” children from innocent parents. Florida man John Stewart insists he was falsely accused of the murder of 15-month-old Knowellan Kelly—a story media outlets and documentary filmmakers have echoed in sympathetic portrayals. But a months-long investigation into the case, including interviews with the doctors involved and with Stewart himself, reveals a far more complicated story of violence, deception, and injustice. Season 7 asks the questions others didn’t: what really happened to Knowellan Kelly? As the season unfolds, Stewart’s case leads us into a disturbing ecosystem of parents who claim they were falsely accused of abuse, alongside fringe medical experts and hardline parents’ rights activists. Together, they are fueling conspiracy theories about “evil” child abuse pediatricians and successfully advocating for laws that undermine child abuse investigations and weaken protections for vulnerable children. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this final recap episode, we revisit the final months of Maya Kowalski’s sheltering at Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital and the tragic events that followed. While the dependency case and abuse investigation continued, tensions within the Kowalski family were escalating. After a difficult court hearing in January 2017, Beata Kowalski died by suicide, leaving behind emails asking others to “take care of Maya”. Following Beata’s death, Maya was eventually released to her father’s custody, where she continued to improve and was able to return to school without further ketamine treatment. In the years that followed, the Kowalski family filed a lawsuit against the hospital that would ultimately lead to a high-profile trial, widespread media coverage, and the Netflix documentary Take Care of Maya. *** Just a note that today’s episode includes mention and description of suicide. If you or someone you know needs help please call 988 or visit 988lifeline.org *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the third part of our Kowalski recap, Andrea walks through the events that led to Maya’s hospitalization and what hospital staff observed in those first days. As doctors quickly became concerned about both Maya’s condition and the unusual treatments she had been receiving, the hospital brought in a child abuse pediatrician and an investigation into possible medical child abuse began.  *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea sheds light on the disconnect between the narrative presented publicly vs the medical records and trial testimony. She traces how ketamine became the driving force in Maya Kowalski’s treatment from Dr. Anthony Kirkpatrick. What followed was a rapid escalation: four-day ketamine infusions, increasingly alarming blog posts written in Maya’s voice, and ultimately a controversial, high-dose ketamine coma in Mexico. This sets the stage for Maya’s arrival at Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea has been following the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children's case since it first received national attention, and previously covered it in depth in our third season. Within this 4-part series, we’re revisiting the case with the benefit of additional trial testimony, released records, and appellate developments. In this first part, we’re going back to 2015 to revisit the events that set this case in motion. We’re sharing this recap now because the Kowalski case is directly relevant to themes we’ll be exploring in season 7 of Nobody Should Believe Me. The public conversation around this case—shaped by courtroom proceedings, media coverage, and documentary storytelling—has had broader implications for how medical child abuse allegations are understood and debated.  *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the wake of obtaining shocking public records about her sister’s case, host Andrea Dunlop decides to divulge the details of the second investigation into her sister, Megan Carter. Seated alongside Detective Mike Webber, Andrea delves into the extensive documentation, and together the two unpack the devastating information about what reportedly happened to her niece.  Despite video evidence, a successful separation test, and expert testimony from one of the most well-respected experts in the country, the juvenile court judge who reviewed the case returned custody of Megan’s two children. Andrea remains deeply concerned that her niece and nephew are victims of a flawed system incapable of addressing the horrifying reality of medical child abuse and makes public the evidence against her sister as a last resort to protect them. During their discussion, Andrea and Mike also examine an irresponsible and misleading article about Megan’s case published by NBC in collaboration with King 5, a local Seattle news outlet. In what has become a distressing pattern in media coverage of medical child abuse cases, this article attacks the doctor who reported the abuse and neglects to mention the evidence that made her do so. Meanwhile the judge’s order that returned custody of the two children—and on which the media’s reporting appears to have relied—contains shocking mistakes and untruths. Andrea talks to someone close to the case to set the record straight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, Kate Downey, the host and creator of the podcast Cramped, shares her personal journey with severe period pain and the challenges she faced in the medical system. She discusses the lack of understanding and research surrounding women's health issues and emphasizes the importance of advocacy, education, and open conversations about women's health.  Kate and Andrea also explore the complicated overlap of visiting multiple doctors for unresolved symptoms vs doctor shopping in medical child abuse cases. They discuss how we can demand better research, better transparency, and better care. *** Listen to Cramped: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cramped/id1778101696 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part Two of Andrea’s conversation with Gypsy-Rose Blanchard, Gypsy reflects on systemic failures by doctors and child protective services and the long-term impact of being conditioned to fear helpers. She also shares what it’s been like to unlearn harmful coping mechanisms and build healthy relationships while reconnecting with family. Their conversation culminates in a hopeful note as Gypsy discusses her new role as a mother and her desire to create a positive legacy for her daughter. * * * https://www.officialgypsyroseblanchard.com/ Follow Gypsy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gypsyrose.insta Watch Mommy Dead and Dearest: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/mommy-dead-and-dearest/87b41129-1e1e-41ff-b32c-926711b94311 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea talks with Gypsy Rose Blanchard about life after surviving Munchausen by proxy, incarceration, and becoming a public figure without her consent. Two years after her release from prison, Gypsy reflects on what it means to build a sense of self after years of extreme control, medical abuse, and sudden media attention.  Their conversation explores the realities of Munchausen by proxy, including the systemic failures that allow abuse to continue and the long-term impact on survivors’ development, autonomy, and relationships. Gypsy shares what accountability and growth look like for her today.  * * * https://www.officialgypsyroseblanchard.com/ Follow Gypsy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gypsyrose.insta Watch Mommy Dead and Dearest: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/mommy-dead-and-dearest/87b41129-1e1e-41ff-b32c-926711b94311 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea is joined once again by retired detective and medical child abuse expert Mike Weber to discuss a case that closely mirrors patterns we saw in season 6 of the show. The conversation centers on a caregiver who presented a child as chronically and mysteriously ill, resulting in repeated hospitalizations and invasive medical interventions.  Together, Andrea and Mike examine the systemic failures that allowed the abuse to continue despite prior warnings, including gaps in CPS oversight, lack of training, and reluctance to act without a catastrophic trigger.  * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part two of Andrea’s conversation with writer and former hoax hunter Taryn Wright, the discussion shifts from the Warrior Eli case to the broader impact of exposing deception online. Together, Andrea and Taryn explore the rise of attention as its own form of currency and the ethical challenges of telling these stories responsibly. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the early 2010s, a heartbreaking story circulated widely online: a family documenting their young son Eli’s battle with cancer, following the sudden death of his mother. When investigative writer Taryn Wright came across the story, what began as casual curiosity quickly led to a shocking series of revelations about a story thousands of strangers had become deeply invested in. In this episode, Andrea talks with Taryn about how the Warrior Eli hoax unraveled and the very real impact it had on the people who believed it. The conversation explores why these stories resonate so deeply and what happens when deception is exposed. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part 2 of Andrea’s Justina Pelletier coverage, she’s joined by Beau Berman, the reporter that broke this story. *** On this show we talk a lot about how Munchausen by Proxy cases are covered in the media, and today we’re getting the inside scoop from the reporter who broke one of the most high profile MBP stories. Beau Berman began covering the Justina Pelletier case back in 2013 as a young reporter and watched over the years as the case evolved and got stranger and stranger. He tells Andrea about how the story came across his desk and the complexities of trying to keep the balance on both sides while dealing with HIPAA. He reflects on his time with the Pelletiers and his thoughts on the case more than a decade after covering it.  *** Links/Resources:  Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-02-justina-pelletier-part-1/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-04-justina-pelletier-part-3-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-05-justina-pelletier-part-4/id1615637188 The Battle for Justina Pelletier: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/the-battle-for-justina-pelletier/5657866397468499112 Read about Justina Pelleiter in The Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2020/01/12/pelletier/0I2dQrYlZFJ9tNzscaXdAO/story.html Join Patreon for a look at Andrea and Dr. Bex’s previous coverage of the Justina Pelletier case: https://www.patreon.com/collection/507935 Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As 2025 comes to a close and we look forward to season 7, we’re airing the first part of Andrea’s coverage on the Justina Pelletier case—the case that opened the Pandora’s Box of medical kidnapping coverage in the media. *** Case Files is back with the first episode of a multi-part series on the Justina Pelletier case. Andrea and Dr. Bex covered this case in the subscriber feed, but, due to popular demand, decided to bring it to the main podcast. Justina Pelletier was a 14-year-old girl whose hospitalization at Boston Children's Hospital sparked a significant legal and media frenzy. Andrea and Dr. Bex’s discussion covers the medical background of Justina's condition, including mitochondrial disease and somatoform disorder, the treatment plans proposed by the hospital, and the escalating conflict between her family and medical professionals.  *** Links/Resources:  Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-03-justina-pelletier-part-2-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-04-justina-pelletier-part-3-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-05-justina-pelletier-part-4/id1615637188 The Battle for Justina Pelletier: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/the-battle-for-justina-pelletier/5657866397468499112 Read about Justina Pelleiter in The Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2020/01/12/pelletier/0I2dQrYlZFJ9tNzscaXdAO/story.html Join Patreon for a look at Andrea and Dr. Bex’s previous coverage of the Justina Pelletier case: https://www.patreon.com/collection/507935 Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second episode of Andrea’s coverage of the Jesika Jones case, she’s joined by Derek Jones, Jesika’s then-husband. Derek bravely tells the story of how he and Jesika met, their home life, and the decline in their daughter's health. Talking to Derek gives listeners insight into the manipulative nature of perpetrators, not only with their victims, but also with everyone around them, and the mental toll of coming to terms with such a monumental breach of trust. *** Links/Resources:  Listen to Jesika Jones Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-06-jesika-jones-part-1-with-detective-mike-weber/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-08-jesika-jones-part-3-with-derek-jones/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-09-jesika-jones-part-4-with-detective-mike-weber/id1615637188 Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re re-airing part 1 of the Jesika Jones case in Texas. Look out for part 2 with the father, Derek Jones, in the feed tomorrow!  *** This week on case files, Andrea is joined by Detective Mike Weber, a crimes against children investigator and long-time friend/contributor to the show, to discuss the Jesika Jones case. Detective Mike is called onto this case in mid-2022 after Jesika brings her 4 year old daughter into Cook Children’s Hospital multiple times for an alleged seizure disorder. As the case evolves, Mike learns just how compulsive an offender who is allowed to walk can truly be.  *** Links/Resources:  Listen to Jesika Jones Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-07-jesika-jones-part-2-with-derek-jones/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-08-jesika-jones-part-3-with-derek-jones/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-09-jesika-jones-part-4-with-detective-mike-weber/id1615637188 Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this follow-up to Season 6, Andrea reconnects with Mishelle and her aunt Sabrina to talk about life after sharing Collin’s story. They reflect on what it’s been like to have this information  out in the world, the reactions from their community, and the personal toll of public disclosure. Mishelle shares major life updates, while Sabrina speaks about the mix of relief and vulnerability that comes with finally being heard. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we close out our coverage of Serial’s The Preventionist with Dr. Randy Alexander, one of the most experienced child abuse pediatricians in the country and the former supervisor of both Dr. Deborah Jensen and Dr. Sally Smith. Randy explains how the media’s portrayal of CAPs as all-powerful fundamentally misunderstands how these cases work and ignores the layers of oversight built into the system.  We also revisit the Amanda Saranofksy case, which The Preventionist casts as uncertain despite multiple conflicting stories and medical findings that simply don’t match the explanations given. These selective narratives don’t bring accountability. They undermine child safety by elevating fringe theories over decades of established research. This is our final episode on The Preventionist, but we’ll continue examining its consequences as we move into Season Seven. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we’re re-releasing Andrea’s conversation with Kathleen Strader from Prevent Child Abuse America. While Nobody Should Believe Me is, at its core, raising awareness about Munchausen by Proxy abuse, we’ve been pulled into the larger question of “how do we make sure children are safe in their homes?”. We’ll continue exploring that next week during Andrea’s interview with Dr. Randy Alexander and throughout season 7 (coming soon!). *** This week Andrea is joined by Kathleen Strader, the National Director for Healthy Families America, the signature home visiting program of Prevent Child Abuse America. Following the Take Care of Maya film and media coverage of so-called "medical kidnapping" and misleading coverage of child abuse, we move the conversation to solutions: what can we do to prevent child abuse? We delve into Kathleen's background dealing with child abuse cases and her work supporting families through home visiting programs. Their conversation touches on the complexities of child abuse, systemic issues, and the importance of supportive measures and interventions that meet families where they are. As we wrap up our coverage of the landmark Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children's case, we issue a hopeful message of how we can alleviate one of society's most challenging problems. * * * Check out ⁠Prevent Child Abuse America⁠.     Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Dr. Sally Smith is back on the mic to share her reaction to the recent appellate ruling that overturned the massive judgment against Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital in the Maya Kowalski case. She talks about what the decision means for mandatory reporters, why she sees it as vindication of her work, and what it’s been like to be cast as a media villain simply for following the evidence. Andrea and Dr. Smith also discuss The Preventionist and reporter Dyan Neary’s portrayal of Dr. Debra Jenssen, and why these narratives about “overzealous” child abuse pediatricians can so easily miss the reality of how these cases are actually evaluated. Dr. Smith offers context on the medical processes involved and what’s at stake when public conversations lose sight of the vulnerable children at the center of these stories. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In light of the overturned ruling of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins and Serial’s The Preventionist, we’re reairing an episode from our Kowalski season in which Andrea dives into the complexities around reporting child abuse suspicions. *** With the jury's stunning $242 million verdict in favor of the Kowalski family, host Andrea Dunlop looks at why this case has struck such a nerve on both sides of the political spectrum. She examines why some mothers accused of medical child abuse are viewed as monsters and others as martyrs.   Andrea looks at the charges against social worker Cathy Bedy the woman who became the face of the child welfare bureaucracy during the Maya Kowalski case and examines her testimony.   We also seek out answers about the troubled state of child welfare in America by talking to Dr. Jessica Pryce, author of the forthcoming book Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services—Notes of a Former Caseworker.  Dr. Pryce shares heart-wrenching stories of mothers whose lives have been turned upside down by investigations and sets out a compelling and urgent case for an overhaul of CPS. With her inside view of the system, she also gives insight on how doctors and other mandated reporters can do the best for the families they want to help even within the current, deeply flawed system.   This episode grapples with the complexity around reporting child abuse suspicions and the potentially chilling ripple effects of the explosive verdict in Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens. It examines the lack of support for struggling parents in America, while leaving the listener with urgent questions about justice and equity.  *** Learn more about Dr. Pryce’s work on her website: https://jessicaprycephd.com/   Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second part of Andrea’s rebuttal to The Preventionist, Serial Productions’ podcast on child abuse pediatrician Dr. Debra Jenssen, she speaks with Dr. Jim Hamilton, a leading expert on Munchausen by proxy. They break down how prevalence statistics are misused, what The Preventionist gets wrong, and why leaving out key details—like the Steltz’ teenage son coming forward and emancipating himself—is so damaging. Ultimately, the episode asks what it means when the media gives a platform to alleged abusers while erasing survivors. *** Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea sits down with Ethen Shapiro, trial counsel for Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital, to unpack the landmark appellate decision overturning the $200 million verdict in the Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins case. Ethen explains how the ruling reinforces the immunity given to mandatory reporters acting in good faith when reporting suspected abuse. Together, they explore how the decision challenges the “medical kidnapping” narrative and clarifies that the hospital’s actions were guided by law and necessity, not malice. The discussion also highlights what this ruling could mean for similar cases nationwide, where lawsuits against hospitals and social workers are on the rise.  *** Tickets for NSBM Live - Seattle 3.18.26 https://tickets.thetripledoor.net/eventperformances.asp?evt=2181 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea continues delving into the Olivia Gant case with Detective Melissa Kalish, who uncovered the vast fraud and abuse behind Kelly Turner’s lies. Kelly continued to exploit compassion: fabricating diagnoses, staging her daughter’s suffering, and committing large-scale Medicaid fraud. Within days of Olivia’s death, she entered new relationships, inventing pregnancies, fabricating ex-wives, and posing as a nurse. Andrea closes the episode by reminding listeners that Olivia’s story is a warning about the systems and people who looked away when she most needed protection. Get in touch with Serial and the NTY: serialshows@nytimes.com Justice for Collin: ⁠https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit⁠ Order Andrea’s book⁠ The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy⁠.  Click⁠ here⁠ to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on⁠ YouTube⁠ where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram:⁠ @andreadunlop⁠ Buy Andrea's books⁠ here⁠.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit⁠ MunchausenSupport.com⁠ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded⁠ here⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In response to Serial Productions’s series The Preventionist, we’re re-airing our episode “What’s Happening in Lehigh?”, where Andrea and Dr. Marc Feldman dive into the claims of “overdiagnosis” of Munchausen by Proxy in Lehigh, PA. This episode includes an intro covering some key details missing from Serial's reporting. *** This week Andrea is joined by Dr. Marc Feldman as she dives into the complexities and controversies surrounding medical child abuse and the developing story in Lehigh, PA about "overdiagnosis". They delve into the media’s role in shaping perceptions and the potential for a moral panic about doctors "falsely accusing" parents of child abuse. Andrea and Dr. Feldman address the challenges in protecting children, critiques of the healthcare and legal systems, and the broader social and political movement emerging from these cases. *** Tickets for NSBM Live - Seattle 3.18.26 https://tickets.thetripledoor.net/eventperformances.asp?evt=2181 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The disturbing parallels between Collin McDaniel and Olivia Gant's cases led Andrea to speak with Melissa Kalish, the lead detective in the investigation of Kelly Turner, for season 6. Now we’re diving deeper into Olivia’s story in a two part series where Detective Kalish walks listeners through her investigation into this case of medical child abuse. *** Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Fran and Alvin discuss food, Pakistan, and American history. *** Listen to Affirmative Murder: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/340-em-eye-ess-ess-eye-pee-pee-eye/id1296864488 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea and the Nobody Should Believe Me team reflect on the emotional impact of making season 6 and the ethical considerations of reporting on Collin’s story. They also address listener feedback, explore the roles of perpetrators and medical professionals, and highlight the importance of accountability in philanthropy and child protection systems. Their conversation emphasizes the need for community engagement and the complexities of navigating these sensitive topics. *** Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit More from Myrriah: https://www.goodget.xyz/ Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two cousins. Four murders. One homicidal summer. In 2004, Angel Ford-Wright & Caroline Peoples lured victims with false promises, then executed them. One confessed. One went to trial. Both got life. *** Listen to Fruitloops: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fruitloops-serial-killers-of-color/id1400426755 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the final installment of True Story Media Presents! This week Andrea is talking to Wendy and Beth, the creators behind Fruitloops: Serial Killers of Color. The three of them chat about how they first met and what drove Wendy and Beth to dive into true crime podcasting. They reflect on the shared thread of how cultural and societal ideals shape policy and how that engages with true crime. Wendy and Beth share what they hope listeners take away from their podcast. They also touch on the case of Antoinette Frank—a New Orleans police officer turned murderer. *** Listen to Fruitloops: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fruitloops-serial-killers-of-color/id1400426755 Listen to Antoinette Frank: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e80-antoinette-frank/id1400426755 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

LaDonna Humphrey. Remember that name because she is central to this story. I've tried to sum up this tale quickly, but every time I attempt an elevator pitch, I fail. When friends ask me what this new series is about, I'm at a loss for words. It's impossible to explain in just a few minutes. I'm about to retell the story the way I learned it: completely out of order. By the end, you'll need a suspect board like the ones in the movies. I've conducted over 20 interviews and counting, and you're going to hear some far-fetched allegations from many different people—strangers who share one common thread: they've all crossed paths with LaDonna Humphrey. There's a lot of he said, she said in this story, and I'll do my best to prove or disprove each claim. This series is going to be a long one, unfolding in real-time as you listen. By the end, I hope I've done enough for you to make up your own mind and understand why so many people are afraid of LaDonna Humphrey. *** Listen to PRETEND: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretend/id1245307962 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the third installment of True Story Media Presents, Andrea sits down with Javier Leiva—host and creator of PRETEND. The two talk about how they first connected, their new partnership under True Story Media, and the overlapping themes in their work. They dig into the emotional toll of telling true crime stories, and Javier shares his path from local news and documentary filmmaking into the world of true crime podcasting, and how his show has become a space to unravel deception, trauma, and control. Javier also introduces listeners to one of his latest series: The Internet Saves the Bachelor. It follows former Bachelor star Clayton Echard as he’s pulled into a web of deception by Laura Owens—including a fabricated pregnancy that spiraled into chaos. *** Listen to PRETEND: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretend/id1245307962 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

September 1998 brought a chilling moment in Bismarck, North Dakota, when 17-year-old Aimee walked into the police station. She suspected her boyfriend, Brian Erickstad, had harmed his parents. A welfare check was meant to set things straight — but it uncovered something far worse. Episode 1, A Little Red Car, introduces Barbara and Gordon Erickstad’s case, a North Dakota true crime story that exposed violence hidden within a circle of teens. *** Check out the full catalog and everything Dakota Spotlight: https://dakotaspotlight.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special crossover, Andrea talks with James Wolner, creator of Dakota Spotlight—another show in her True Story Media network—about how a rumor in a rural North Dakota bar led him to pick up a microphone in 2019 and start chasing the truth. Together, Andrea and James dig into what it means to practice ethical reporting in a medium with no rules. James shares a case from season three of Dakota Spotlight: The House on Sweet and Seventh. A story of teenagers with a “Manson-esque” circle of loyalty and the brutal murder of two parents by their adopted son and his friend.  *** https://dakotaspotlight.com/ Listen to Dakota Spotlight: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dakota-spotlight-true-crime-cold-case-investigations/id1451783176 Join Dakota Spotlight’s Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/DakotaSpotlight/ Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking off our new series introducing the shows of True Story Media, Andrea’s ethical true crime network. In this conversation, Andrea sits down with Alvin, the host and creator of Affirmative Murder, to talk about the wild landscape of podcasting in 2025. They dive into questions of diversity and representation, the ethics of telling real-life stories, and what’s at stake when we shine a spotlight on tragedy. From unpacking the recent P. Diddy trial and its ripple effects in the media, to reflecting on the bravery of Erica Pratt—a young girl who escaped a kidnapping—Andrea and Alvin explore how true crime intersects with politics, parenting, and the stories we choose to tell.  *** Listen to Affirmative Murder: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/affirmative-murder/id1296864488 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we hear more from Mishelle about the impact of The Guthy Jackson Foundation’s response to the revelations about Lisa McDaniel is having on her family. We examine how Lisa’s long tenure with the foundation shaped research, messaging, and trust in the NMO community, and what it means when one person’s deception ripples out so far.  We also hear from listener Bekah Rhea, whose perspective as both a researcher and someone living with a disability adds a sharp lens to the caretaker narrative at the center of so many advocacy efforts.  *** This episode discusses allegations and interpretations based on court records, public documents, interviews, and reporting. All organizations and individuals mentioned have been given the opportunity to respond, and their statements are included where provided. Nothing here should be taken as a claim of personal culpability beyond what has been legally or publicly established. *** Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the story of the McDaniel family continues to send shockwaves through the communities Lisa was involved with, we check in with Mishelle about what else has come to light and what her mother has been up to since the season aired.  We take a deeper dive into the of role of The Guthy Jackson Foundation–Lisa’s former employer– and cover how they’ve responded to the news about Lisa.  We also speak to Rob Reich, Professor of Political Science at Stanford University and author of Just Giving: Why Philanthropy Is Failing Democracy and How It Can Do Better–to give us context for foundations like Guthy-Jackson and why we should pay attention to them.  *** This episode discusses allegations and interpretations based on court records, public documents, interviews, and reporting. All organizations and individuals mentioned have been given the opportunity to respond, and their statements are included where provided. Nothing here should be taken as a claim of personal culpability beyond what has been legally or publicly established. *** Read Just Giving by Rob Reich: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691183497/just-giving Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we have a very special crossover episode with journalist and host/producer of The Con: Katilyn’s Baby, Sarah Treleaven. Sarah and Andrea recount how they met many years ago and the similarities in their work with Munchausen and Munchausen adjacent stories. Sarah reveals a personal story about how she got into this line of work. Kaitlyn’s Baby, is about a woman that had been serially fabricating pregnancies, contacting doulas, and once they had agreed to help, taking them through a series of escalating crises. Andrea and Sarah dive into the depth of emotional betrayal experienced by the victims in this case and the thrill of deception experienced by these perpetrators. Sarah talks about the lack of framework in the criminal justice system for someone who has not been physically harmed or cheated out of their money or property, as well as the complicated questions that arise for her as she investigates these cases. *** Listen to The Con: Kaitlyn’s Baby: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/the-con-kaitlyns-baby/id1663956121 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Mike Weber Retirement Special! Mike gives us a brief glimpse into what he’s been up to since retirement and talks to Andrea about his experience publishing their co-authored novel, The Mother Next Door. Andrea asks Mike to give his thoughts on the Lisa McDaniel case from a law enforcement perspective, and he details his outreach to the Birmingham Police Department, stressing the importance of public pressure for an investigation. Then, we hear a clip from a 2023 training he did - demonstrative of the push back within criminal justice agencies when it comes to medical child abuse. Mike also gives an update on Mary Welch’s burgeoning political career.  *** Mike Weber Consulting Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea and Mike’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're unlocking an episode from the subscriber feed. Enjoy! *** This is the first part of Andrea and Dr. Bex’s coverage of the Peacock documentary series “Anatomy of Lies”. The show dives into the story of Elisabeth Finch, who was best known as a head writer on “Grey’s Anatomy”, and the lies that her life was built on. In their conversation about the first part of this docuseries, Andrea and Dr. Bex discuss Munchausen syndrome, the impact of false narratives in storytelling, particularly when it comes to claims of personal trauma, and how Finch’s claims intersected with the public discourse of the Me Too era. *** Listen to the rest of this series: https://www.patreon.com/collection/1433425 Watch “Anatomy of Lies”: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/anatomy-of-lies/6024435431465947112 Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our season finale, Andrea comes face-to-face with Lisa McDaniel, the woman at the center of this story when she arrives on her doorstep with television journalist Meredith Anderson to request an interview.  As they process the revealing conversation with Mishelle, they reflect on the ripple effects that this story has already had on the McDaniel family, and for Lisa’s former employer, the Guthy-Jackson Foundations.   Drawing parallels between Collin’s case and that of Olivia Gant, Andrea speaks with Melissa Kalish, the lead detective in the investigation of Kelly Turner, Olivia’s mother for insight and, perhaps, a roadmap. Mishelle reflects on what justice would mean for her, as she and her aunt Sabrina reclaim their memories of Collin.  *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mishelle recounts how she and her sister, Angellyn, stumbled upon their past medical and court records while helping Lisa and Carey move. This discovery prompted the sisters to reach out to people who could offer a perspective unfiltered by their mother’s influence: Judy, the PICU nurse who once treated Angellyn, and Bea Yorker, the Munchausen by proxy expert who testified against Lisa more than twenty years ago.  *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week’s episode, we hear Mishelle’s phone call with Dr. Jayne Ness, Collin’s treating physician, who shares concerning insights into Collin’s treatment—notably, that she was never certain Collin had NMO and that she had serious concerns for abuse. Andrea then speaks with Dr. Kenneth Feldman, a Child Abuse Pediatrician and Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Washington, about how physicians become entangled with Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Dr. Feldman also discusses the online behavior of perpetrators. Andrea then traces Lisa’s advocacy efforts following Collin’s death, starting with a now-defunct 501(c)(3) organization and eventually leading to her work with the Guthy Jackson Foundation. Mishelle goes on to describe how, after Collin’s passing, Lisa began faking her own illness.  *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Lisa escalates Collin’s medication regimen and pushing for risky experimental treatments, we examine the gulf between Lisa’s reports of Collin’s symptoms and known cases of NMO.   We also see the beginning of Lisa’s connection to the Guthy Jackson Foundation, a high-profile non-profit, dedicated to NMO awareness and research. Collin’s condition rapidly declines, and he is placed on hospice care. Sabrina and Mishelle share heartbreaking memories of Collin’s final days, offering a deeply emotional and personal perspective on this tragic chapter. *** If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 or visit https://988lifeline.org/ *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mishelle describes her brother Collin as a vibrant little boy who loved to joke around and make people laugh. All of that changed, seemingly overnight. Sabrina and Mishelle walk Andrea through their memory of the timeline of Collin’s symptoms, and his eventual diagnosis with NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica). This recounting of events exposes some discrepancies in the family’s memory and Lisa’s public story, as well as a rapid escalation in the medication given to Collin. We’re introduced to Lisa’s blog on CaringBridge, where she kept a detailed account of Collin’s medical journey. She quickly begins referring to NMO as a fatal disease, even mentioning the possibility of hospice care. However, this portrayal is challenged by a pediatric neuroimmunologist we’ll refer to as Dr. K, who specializes in NMO. Dr. K offers a clear explanation of what Neuromyelitis Optica is, the diagnostic criteria, and just how rare the condition is—particularly in children. As suspicions grow within their tight-knit community and the family’s financial support runs dry, the McDaniels relocate to Alabama to seek care from NMO expert Dr. Jayne Ness. *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We begin this week’s episode with a young Mishelle struggling to adjust to life with her grandparents, finding it difficult to accept both the separation from her parents and the reality of what her mother had done. Meanwhile, Lisa is in the midst of a police investigation, undergoing a psychological evaluation and attending therapy. We hear from Bea Yorker—an expert in Munchausen by Proxy and the President of Munchausen Support—and Dr. Mary Sanders, a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University and a member of APSAC’s Munchausen by Proxy committee. They explain what should have been considered during Lisa’s evaluation and what it truly means to "treat" someone with Munchausen by Proxy. Armed with letters from therapists attesting to her remorse, Lisa turns to the online forum MAMA (Mothers Against Munchausen Allegations) to build her case for court. There, she begins digging for information on enemy number one: Bea Yorker.  *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lisa’s second child, Angellyn, was born prematurely and in a medically fragile state. Mishelle and her aunt Sabrina recount a troubling pattern: just as Angellyn would be cleared for hospital discharge, doctors would abruptly reverse course, warning that she might not survive the night. Andrea speaks to a nurse, “Judy”, who was working in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit (PICU) at the time of Angellyn’s hospitalizations. Judy walks us through the medical team’s growing suspicions and their decision to install surveillance cameras in Angellyn’s hospital room. The footage reveals deeply disturbing behavior by Lisa and Carey’s utter compliance, prompting an investigation into the parents. Ultimately, custody of both Mishelle and Angellyn was revoked, and the children were placed with their maternal grandparents. *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This season on Nobody Should Believe Me, we tell the story of Lisa McDaniel, who crafted a public image as the Director of Patient Advocacy at the Guthy Jackson Foundation while concealing her conviction for child abuse more than a decade ago. We begin with an introduction to the McDaniel family: Lisa, her husband Carey, and their children—Mishelle, Angellyn, and Collin. While the unraveling of their family began when Collin was “diagnosed” with NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica), to understand the full story, we must go back to where it all began: Hazlehurst, Georgia. Andrea and our producer Myrriah travel with Mishelle–Lisa’s courageous eldest daughter– to her mother’s hometown, where they sit down with Lisa’s younger sister, Sabrina. Sabrina recounts a childhood marked by emotional manipulation and physical abuse at the hands of her older sister. She walks us through Mishelle’s early years, how, as a baby, she was often left with relatives for days at a time, and then through Lisa’s troubled pregnancy with her second child, Angellyn. Stay tuned through the end of the episode for a preview of what’s to come this season. *** Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  *** This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources. The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources. Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes. This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant. These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization. The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections. Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Season 6 of Nobody Should Believe Me–out weekly starting June 19, available in full for subscribers at launch– covers the extraordinary and tragic saga of the McDaniel family, a real-life Southern Gothic tale of Munchausen by Proxy that spans decades and has left untold damage in its wake.  For the past twelve years, Lisa McDaniel worked for The Guthy Jackson Foundation, a high-profile non-profit, dedicated to a rare disease called NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica), from which Lisa claims her son suffered.  But while Lisa appears to be a sweet Southern mom whose personal tragedy led to her heroic work, this image hides her dark history of abuse. How was Lisa able to keep her felony conviction for poisoning and suffocating her infant daughter hidden? How did her children slip through the cracks of the healthcare and legal systems again and again? What really happened to her son Collin?   Season Six breaks a story that is years in the making and made possible through the astounding courage of Mishelle Roberts. This season ties together many elements introduced in previous seasons: ways that systems fail vulnerable victims, the culture of silence and inaction within hospitals that enables abuse, and the damage done to rare disease advocacy and victims’ groups which can devastate families and echo through generations.  *** Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're rereleasing an episode from our original coverage of the Kowalski case that was published on 11/7/2023. *** With a verdict in the case days away, host Andrea Dunlop unpacks some of what’s happened so far in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach. They analyze the dueling opening statements, consider what each side is likely to look for in jurors, and which of the charges—if any—might be most viable.   Andrea shares insights on the lawyers after watching their interactions in court. She also weighs in on the extensive medical testimony so far, including a major revelation about the origins of Maya's controversial CRPS diagnosis. We also share a chilling account of Maya’s ketamine coma that was shared in court via missives written by Beata herself.   As both sides begin their closing arguments Andrea weighs the merits of what each side has told the jury and considers what the ramifications of the imminent verdict might be.  *** To support the show, subscribe on ⁠Apple Podcast⁠s or go to ⁠Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe⁠ where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.   Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: ⁠@andreadunlop⁠  Buy Andrea’s ⁠books here⁠.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit ⁠MunchausenSupport.com⁠  Download the ⁠APSAC's practice guidelines here⁠.  ***  Click ⁠here⁠ to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In season 5, we shared a bit of Andrea’s conversation with her parents, and we’re releasing even more in this episode of case files. If you’ve been with us from the beginning, you’re familiar with Andrea’s sister's case. Today we hear from Megan and Andrea’s parents as they reflect on their experiences and share their hopes for their grandchildren.   *** Listen to the NSBM episodes about Megan:  Season 1 Episode 1 Season 1 Episode 2 Season 2 Episode 7 Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week’s episode of Case Files, we’re joined by Rachel Bernstein, a therapist specializing in cults and the host of the podcast IndoctriNation. Andrea and Rachel delve into the crossover between those in the sphere of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators and cults. Rachel talks about the complexity of cult dynamics, the emotional and psychological impacts on families, and the challenges faced by individuals trying to break free from manipulative environments. Andrea and Rachel touch on navigating relationships with abusive family members and the importance of community, safe spaces, and support. *** Listen to IndoctriNation: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/indoctrination/id1373939526 Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea is joined by Celisia Stanton, the host and creator of Truer Crime. Andrea and Celisia dive into the Susan Smith case, a story that garnered national attention in the 90s. Through talking about the case, they segue into the complex themes surrounding false accusations, media representation, racial bias, mental health, and the nature of violence. Andrea and Celisia discuss the dichotomy of having empathy for an offender, while also holding them accountable for their actions. *** Listen to Truer Crime: https://truercrimepodcast.com/ Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf *** Sources: https://www.hulu.com/series/impact-x-nightline-killer-mom-the-case-of-susan-smith-0b1f5ce7-cb4f-4a2a-a827-84052e5a5415 https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/21/us/susan-smith-south-carolina-case-parole/index.htmlhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3npzxd1lwo https://apnews.com/article/susan-smith-parole-south-carolina-3c7c12e0cd0a23eee0e42a599b689597 https://apnews.com/article/susan-smith-parole-south-carolina-ae37185c6d9d056104c839b03bd1cac0 https://www.wyff4.com/article/local-history-arrest-parole-killer-susan-smith/62028246 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-07-28-mn-28940-story.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, our Andrea is joined by Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal and There and Gone: South Street. Gunning speaks on her transition from television to podcasting. They both discuss the ethical consideration of the real-world consequences of sharing true crime stories, as well as the emotional weight of telling these stories with care. Gunning and Dunlop reflect on the healing power of storytelling and the importance of humanizing these narratives. They also touch on the challenges faced by women in the podcasting industry.  *** Listen to Betrayal: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-betrayal-weekly-95632727/ Listen to There and Gone: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-there-and-gone-south-stre-185036762/ Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a very special bonus episode for you all! Andrea is joined by Brittani Ard, the host and creator of the breakout show, You Probably Think This Story’s About You. Listeners get to hear how Andrea and Britt evolved their shows from what started off as limited series into what they are today. They touch on why they both decided to independently produce their shows, the art of storytelling, the business of podcasting, and how they deal with putting such personal details of their lives out into the world. Brittani talks about how You Probably Think This Story’s About You soared to the top of the charts in its first season and Andrea explains what brought her to founding her network, True Story Media. *** Listen to Brittani’s show You Probably Think This Story’s About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our Season 5 Mailbag Episode! This time we’re joined by more of our fabulous Nobody Should Believe Me team: head producer Myrriah Gossett, lead researcher Erin Ajayi, story editor Nichole Hill, and producer Greta Stromquist. The team addresses questions about our coverage of Sophie’s faith, the role that race played in this season, behind-the-scenes of our touching interview with Chalice Howard, and the value of listener feedback.  *** Support Myrriah’s other projects! https://www.myrriahgossett.com/ Listen to Nichole’s podcast, Our Ancestors Were Messy: https://thesecretadventuresofblackpeople.com/our-ancestors-were-messy Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a very fun guest on NSBM Case Files this week: V Spehar aka Under the Desk News! In this engaging conversation, V and Andrea discuss the whirlwind that has been the beginning of 2025, the importance of ethical responsibility in media and journalism, and working through the gut-punch of grief. They discuss how their careers pivoted in unexpected, but amazing ways and how their personal experiences inform the way they move through their respective spaces. V shares their strategy for dealing with the current onslaught of news and highlights the importance of community. *** Follow V on all the things: https://linktr.ee/vspehar Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To officially wrap up season 5, we’ve brought in our friend, Detective Mike Weber, to discuss his thoughts on the police investigation into Sophie Hartman. He walks listeners through the extensive police reports and analyzes the evidence collected, including Sophie’s journal entries. Andrea and Detective Mike discuss the complexities surrounding child abuse cases, particularly the influence of family court decisions and the challenges faced in prosecuting these cases. *** Links and Resources: Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode 8 was originally our season finale, but a source we’d been speaking to for months bravely decided to go on the record. This is Andrea’s conversation with Chalice Howard, Sophie’s friend of nearly 10 years.  With many similarities, being white single moms of adoptive black daughters and a shared faith, Chalice and Sophie found a kinship with each other despite living on opposite sides of the country. Chalice shares about her relationship with Sophie and the girls, the journey to learning about and accepting what Sophie’s been doing to C, and why she decided to contact Andrea. She describes how things came to a head with Sophie and gives a touching message to C and M. *** Please remember that this conversation is from Chalice’s perspective and experience, so we are not able to fact check certain dates/times, nor her conversation with Sam. We have invited  Sophie and other members of the Hartman family onto the podcast to tell their  side of the story, but at the time of publishing have not received a response.. As always, the door remains open if Sophie or other members of the Hartman family would like to tell their version of events. *** Links and Resources: Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our season finale, we see Sophie Hartman follow in the footsteps of the Kowalski family, Andrea’s sister Megan Carter and others, as she files a lawsuit against Seattle Children’s and the others who investigated her for Medical Child Abuse. Journalist Olivia LaVoice shares her thoughts about how this has all played out.  We hear Sophie rebranding herself as a ‘falsely accused’ mother in a visit to her home congregation in Kalamazoo and examine the crossover between evangelical Christianity,  the parents' rights movement, and medical child abuse cases.  We reveal what we know about where Sophie and the girls are today.  *** Links and Resources: Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/ Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We examine perhaps the most important piece of the complex puzzle of the Hartman case: what Sophie wrote about it in her journals.  We’re joined by Dr. James Hamilton, an MBP expert with a PhD in clinical psychology, to walk us through some of Sophie’s most chilling journal entries collected in the case files. We also look at Sophie’s disturbing internet search history during the time of C’s alleged Central precocious puberty (CPP) diagnosis.  After being separated from Sophie, M and C are placed with Sophie’s mom and sister. Detective Lee discusses the problems that arise when placing children with people that are most likely going to side with the perpetrator. In April of 2022, C and M are returned to Sophie and criminal charges are subsequently dropped. Andrea offers a key insight into how this might have happened by revealing a surprising member of Sophie’s legal team: her sister, Megan Carter.  *** Links and Resources: Dr. James Hamilton: https://www.munchausensupport.com/who-we-are/ Check out Olivia LaVoice’s podcast, The Bakersfield Three: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-the-bakersfield-three-128074552/ Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/ Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices