Sub Club by RevenueCat

On the podcast: the “magic moment” test for whether creators can sell your app, the one number that caps what you can pay them, and why cloning hit apps like Cal AI rarely pays off.

Top Takeaways:

🥊 Choose creator niches by what the viewer wants, not what the creator does
UFC fighters track every calorie, but their audience is on the couch with pizza, and thousands of dollars of posts produced no download spike.

✨ Creator content only sells an app that has a magic moment 
A scan-analyze-result sequence made viewers do a double take; without that, the app’s appearance in a creator’s video reads as an ad and never goes viral.

🧮 Never pay a CPM above your revenue per thousand views, and go flat rate 
Break-even is set by a creator's average views, and the profit sits in the one post that goes mega viral, which a flat fee lets you keep.

🏷️ Keep the price low on purpose when the goal is to be the app everyone has 
$30 a year, among the cheapest in the category, was a deliberate choice to be the easiest app to buy rather than the most profitable per user.

🧬 Sharing the playbook publicly is safe when the edge is a thousand tested details
The clones that copied a public growth story were never going to catch up with a team that was obsessed with small compounding improvements.

About Jake Castillo:
🚀Co-founder of Cal AI, the AI-powered app for easy calorie tracking. Snap a photo, scan a barcode, or describe your meal and get instant calorie and nutrient info

👋 Linkedin

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Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Why the truth is always in the comments

[00:29] How Jake met Zach and joined Cal AI

[06:11] The creator partnership that changed Cal AI's trajectory

[09:45] Why fitness creators were the perfect channel

[13:57] Cal AI's three-step "magic moment"

[17:40] Why Cal AI wasn't afraid of copycats

[19:53] The UFC and mukbang creator bets that flopped

[25:21] How to spot creators who will convert

[28:00] Finding creators before they blow up

[30:12] Pricing creator deals around revenue per 1,000 views

[35:30] Measuring creator performance when attribution gets murky

[39:04] Building the systems to manage hundreds of creators

[43:09] The real secret to signing creators at scale

[46:50] When and how Cal AI added paid ads

[51:59] Keeping the experience consistent from ad to onboarding

[55:07] Why Cal AI kept its price at $30 a year

[58:47] The MyFitnessPal acquisition

[01:03:36] Lightning round: affiliate deals and doing the work

On the podcast: growing for four years on press and organic alone, affiliate deals as an underexplored revenue stream, and why deciding to pivot is the hardest part.

Top Takeaways:
🗞️ A PR retainer can beat paid UA for a mass-market app
A $3–5K monthly retainer produced months with half a million downloads and four years of growth with zero Meta or Google spend.

🤝 Affiliate deals are the revenue stream most subscription apps still ignore
Brands pay commission only on sales, so the pitch to Nike-sized partners is low-risk for them and the deals are reached directly, not invented.

📏 Pick the metric that is the user's outcome and A/B test every feature against it
A walking app that refuses to track time in app and measures steps instead shipped a feature that lifted steps 10% by locking social media behind a step goal.

🌍 A growth playbook that works in one country can fail completely in the next
The PR strategy that pulled 300,000 downloads from a single French TV segment produced nothing in the US, where nobody knew the founder or the app.

⭐ A celebrity works harder as a shareholder than as a spokesperson 
An ambassador-plus-investor deal changed hiring, press replies, CAC and retention at once, though the impact can be difficult to precisely quantify.

⏱️ At scale, app review times are a growth constraint, not an inconvenience
The more parallel A/B tests you run, the more a 24-hour (or five-day) release cycle caps how fast you can learn.

About Yves Benchimol:
🚶 Founder of WeWard, a free mobile app backed by Venus Williams designed to make walking a more rewarding part of people's lives. WeWard’s mission is simple: to get more people walking the world over.

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Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Meet Yves Benchimol of WeWard
[01:36] Why Yves left B2B retail analytics
[05:04] Shutting down a business to start over
[07:31] Building an app that rewards walking
[09:29] Why WeWard ditched blockchain
[12:24] Choosing user value over technical complexity
[15:55] Loyalty, gamification, and motivational layers
[17:41] Why WeWard measures steps, not screen time
[18:37] Building revenue beyond subscriptions
[21:46] How affiliate marketing fits WeWard
[23:54] Using PR as the first acquisition channel
[25:18] 300,000 downloads in under five minutes
[28:32] Four years without paid UA, and why US press fell flat
[31:12] Why US growth required local credibility
[33:11] Pitching Venus Williams at lunch
[37:47] What Venus Williams brings as ambassador and investor
[42:01] What's next for WeWard's global growth
[43:14] Staying ahead of copycat apps
[46:25] Locking social apps until users walk
[48:27] Motivational layers and staying focused on walking
[50:11] Localizing rewards across 29 countries
[52:35] Why growth strategies change by market
[54:10] Moving to the US to scale WeWard
[57:13] Why big growth requires bigger bets
[1:00:06] Biggest win: rebuilding the onboarding
[1:00:46] Biggest fail: returning to B2B
[1:01:46] Why mobile app iteration is still too slow

On the podcast: scaling to $10M ARR with a team of ten, having every employee do two user interviews a week, and why their hard paywall "win" backfired.

Top Takeaways:

🧪 Trial-start rate is the wrong scoreboard 
A hard paywall and a no-exit discount both lifted trial starts, then refunds spiked by more than the gain; judge paywall tests on net revenue after refunds, on a matured cohort.

🗣️ Every employee does two user interviews a week, engineers included 
Automated invites to a mixed sample of users book whoever has calendar space, so the whole team hears customers directly instead of through a PM.

💳 Charge from day one to find out who you're building for 
A plain $10-a-month paywall with a one-week trial at launch filtered for willingness to pay and freed the team to work on onboarding and the core product instead of pricing tests.

🧩 Mixing other apps' playbooks is the worst strategy of all 
Duolingo's freemium base only works because it teaches the basics of everything to hobby learners; a product for high-intent professionals should ignore that base entirely.

📅 Lead with annual to know your channel ROI the week the trial ends 
Annual cash lands after the seven-day trial, so payback per channel is visible immediately and can be reinvested; monthly leaves you guessing between one month and 24.

🧑‍💻 $10M ARR with 10 people runs on owners, one meeting a week, and everyone shipping
Hire founder-type doers, hold a single Monday sync, and let AI coding tools turn the whole team, including a non-technical CEO, into builders.

About Anada Lakra:
Anada Lakra is the Co-Founder and CEO of BoldVoice, an AI accent and speech coach for the billion people who speak English as a second language. The app provides real-time feedback powered by our proprietary speech models and lessons from Hollywood accent coaches.

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Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Building a subscription app by focusing on product value over paywall hacks 
[01:12] Anada's personal experience with communication barriers 
[08:53] The early founding story of BoldVoice 
[13:30] Why BoldVoice charged from day 1 
[16:36] Why over-optimizing paywalls distracts teams from improvement 
[18:40] Why mature net revenue after refunds is an important metric 
[22:04] How hard paywall experiments backfired once refunds were factored in 
[24:17] BoldVoice's reverse-trial freemium model & why it ignored the Duolingo playbook 
[33:32] How BoldVoice found its real ICP: professionals over students 
[36:42] Keeping customer obsession alive with user interviews 
[43:29] How Accent Oracle drove a major viral growth moment 
[48:33] BoldVoice's approach to paid growth and annual plans 
[50:45] How BoldVoice reached $10M ARR with 10 people 
[55:02] The expansion from accent training to spoken-English fluency 
[1:00:37] The stigma around accents and how BoldVoice hopes to change that

On the podcast: scaling Meta ads from zero to $100,000 a month, why they waited a year after launch before buying ads, and how a pricing page experiment shifted users toward annual subscriptions.

Top Takeaways:

📉 A big audience buys you a launch spike, not a growth engine
Even 7 million subscribers produce a bump at launch and a steady trickle after; durable growth still came from paid ads, SEO, and a product that converts cold traffic.

🧱 Fix trial-to-paid before you spend a dollar on ads 
A full year of product work before the first ad lifted the conversion floor for every channel, because paid traffic always converts colder than organic.

🧲 Cold traffic converts better on a quiz than in the App Store 
A long, personalized web quiz educates users, overcomes objections, and raises perceived value — and it beat direct-to-store traffic in a head-to-head test, which is why 90% of traffic goes there.

💰 Show annual first and shrink the perceived risk, not the price 
Presenting annual upfront with a day-by-day trial timeline and a promised day-12 reminder shifted plan choice from 60/40 to 75–80% annual, with no price change.

👯 A two-person plan is retention insurance disguised as a discount 
15% off for adding a workout partner gets 15% of trial starts to take it, raising order value and keeping both users subscribed longer.

🔬 70% of experiments fail on the first try — winners come from documenting why 
Locking in the problem before brainstorming solutions, and writing every test down, turns failures into iterations instead of dead ends.

About Ethan Ethier:
🏋️Head of Growth and Operations at Built With Science, a science-based fitness app founded with YouTuber Jeremy Ethier. Personalized workout plans, nutrition guidance, and AI-powered coaching designed to help users train with research-backed methods.

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On the podcast: hitting $10M ARR without ever testing a paywall, paying their own customers to help make video ads, and why you might want to turn away some potential customers.

Top Takeaways:

💸 You can reach $10M ARR with the growth playbook still in the box 
$1M to $10M in subscription ARR in two years, with no lifecycle email, no paywall test, and no SEO, TikTok, or AdWords. The precondition was over a year of giving the product away first.

🚪 Screening buyers out protects every metric that matters 
A web quiz that tells some visitors the product isn't for them caps conversion on purpose, because the wrong subscriber wrecks retention, reviews, and product signal.

🎬 Your own customers can be a creative engine 
Members submit an audition tape, get a weekly brief, and receive a flat fee in real money (not credits, not discounts) for any video that’s used as an ad.

🏷️ Where you put the hardware margin is a bet on where the value lives 
Sell the band at cost, roughly $80, and the $20 subscription carries the value; charge a premium for the device only if it reads as an object people want.

🆓 Hardware kills the free trial, so the free tier has to do the de-risking 
You can't give away a physical device, so the free tier becomes the proof of quality that a trial would normally provide.

🔬 Published research is a moat nobody can clone over a weekend
Opt-in anonymized data sharing, ethics sign-off, and peer-reviewed papers move no revenue number this quarter, but are exactly what a skeptical buyer finds when they research your product.

About Luke Martin-Fuller:
🫀Co-founder of Visible, a wearable activity tracker built for illness, not fitness. Real-time heart rate data and personalized insights help users pace activity within their energy envelope.

👋 LinkedIn

🛥️Visible

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Episode Highlights:
[00:00] From $1M to $10M ARR in Two Years

[01:57] How Long COVID Led to Visible's Founding

[04:18] 5,000 Waitlist Signups for a Product That Didn't Exist

[05:54] Building the Founding 100 With a Free App

[07:33] Raising Just Enough Money to Get Started

[08:27] Why Visible Won't Call Itself a Cure

[11:06] Turning Research Into a Credibility Engine

[16:49] The Stigma Around an Invisible Illness

[19:40] Why Lived Experience Matters for Investors and Employees

[21:57] Why an Existing Wearable Wasn't Good Enough

[24:46] Designing for Brain Fog and Limited Energy

[26:53] Partnering With Polar Instead of Building Hardware

[29:12] The Hidden Complexity of Hardware-Enabled Subscriptions

[30:59] Oura, Whoop, and the Three Hardware Pricing Models

[37:13] From $1M to $10M ARR Without Testing a Paywall

[42:09] Meta, UGC, and the One Paid Channel Behind Growth

[44:37] Paying Customers to Create and Test Video Ads

[47:56] Running an Influencer Program With a Team of Two

[51:21] Why Visible's Funnel Qualifies Customers Before They Buy

[55:24] Why Hardware Forces Visible to Sell Through the Web

[58:49] A 10-Day Journey From Landing Page to Purchase

[1:00:44] Using the Free App to De-Risk a Hardware Purchase

[1:02:08] A Quiet Series A at $7M in Revenue

[1:07:11] Biggest Win: Rebuilding the Web Funnel In-House

[1:08:00] Biggest Fail: An AI Feature Users Hated

[1:09:41] Why Growth Depends on Insurance, and Who Visible Is Hiring Next

On the podcast: crowdfunding millions of dollars to accelerate growth, the two-year subscription that transformed his CAC payback, and why removing signup friction backfired.

Top Takeaways:

💰 Raising money means selling your business
Equity crowdfunding turned 10,000 engaged users into 2,500 investors, and the smartest founders still raise half of what they think they need.

📈 A 2-year subscription can transform CAC payback
Offering 2 years at a ~30% discount ($183 vs. $129/year) pulls revenue forward, funding marketing spend the moment it happens.

🚧 Removing signup friction can backfire spectacularly
Killing account creation looked like a huge win in early tests, but multi-device sync complaints and support grief erased the gains at 100% rollout.

🤝 Not every mouth is worth the same in word of mouth 
Instructors and industry insiders who refuse affiliate kickbacks carry more trust than any paid channel, precisely because they aren't sales reps.

🧪 Most startups don't have the sample size to A/B test properly
With a billion users, testing is easy; without them it's dangerously easy to read whatever you want into the numbers while a metric further down the funnel quietly breaks.

About Jelte Liebrand:
🚀Founder of Savvy Navvy, a marine navigation app that is Google Maps for boats. Charts, tides, weather, and everything you need for sailing and motorboat navigation

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Episode Highlights:

[00:00] Six Days to an Oversubscribed Crowdfunding Raise 
[00:36] Introducing Jelte Liebrand of Savvy Navvy 
[01:46] A Bad Day at Google and a Yacht Race Sign-Up 
[03:09] Plotting Courses by Hand on a Racing Yacht 
[05:12] Realizing This Wasn't Just an Ocean Racer's Problem 
[06:10] Buying a Clipboard to Research the Boating Market 
[08:16] What AI Teaches Us About Shifting Expectations 
[13:15] Even Dropping a Pin Is Starting to Feel Dated 
[14:31] Sitting Down With VCs and Walking Away 
[16:46] What Equity Crowdfunding Actually Means 
[20:56] Why VC Only Fits a Narrow Set of Businesses
[24:44] Raise Half of What You Think You Need 
[27:31] Inside Savvy Navvy's First and Later Funding Rounds 
[29:25] No Preferred Shares and the Same Terms for Everyone 
[32:35] Why He Tells Founders Not to Raise At All 
[35:42] Setting a Revenue Multiple Instead of a VC Multiple 
[39:34] From Just an App to a B2B Platform 
[42:27] The Arc Boats Partnership That Opened Doors 
[46:50] Spotting Hardware Opportunities Like Tessie and Tesla 
[48:30] How the Manufacturer Flywheel Actually Works 
[52:57] Instructors, Chandleries, and Trust Without Kickbacks 
[57:44] Two-Year Subscriptions and the CAC Payback Win 
[01:00:13] Biggest fail of the year: The Anonymous Accounts Experiment That Backfired 

On the podcast: why founders belong in the marketing trenches more often, what makes ‘ugly’ ads perform so well, and why stable ad performance is actually a red flag.

Top Takeaways:

🚨 Stable ad performance is a warning sign, not a win 
A $30 acquisition returning $50 can feel safe enough to scale, but that comfort may stop the search for the breakthrough creative that halves CPA or triples purchases.

👀 Ugly ads earn the attention that polished ads lose
When every feed looks perfectly branded, an unpolished ad that explains the product in the first second has a better chance of stopping the scroll.

🛠️ Founders cannot outsource market intuition
Sitting in acquisition meetings and developing early creative gives founders a firsthand understanding that no agency or marketing hire can manufacture for them.

🧪 Validate demand before building the product
Selling a PDF, concept, or promise—even if it must be refunded—is a cheaper test than spending months building an app the market never asked for.

🌍 Localization is a testing advantage, not just a translation task
Similar-converting international markets can turn a $1,000-a-day US creative test into a $10-a-day experiment, provided the team still accounts for local culture.

About Yuliya Lennox:
🚀App marketing professional helping apps scale through strategy, experimentation, and deep understanding of user behavior. Experienced in B2C growth, monetization design, and funnel optimization across startups and established teams. Thrives on turning data into actionable insights and collaborating cross-functionally to drive sustainable, user-focused growth.

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] The founder thesis: Why marketing has to be felt, not just understood.

[2:34] Stability is the enemy. Steady CPMs and CPAs mean you've stopped pushing.

[6:54] The case for ugly ads: Why the least polished creative usually wins.

[8:46] Sell before you build a single line of code.

[14:47] No silver bullet: Why founders can't outsource marketing to a hire.

[19:02] The belly fat ad. When brand caution costs you your best-performing creative.

[24:49] When brand actually matters: The Solid Starts backlash that proved the exception.

[26:31] Betting on localization for cheaper testing and bigger markets outside the US.

[32:45] The case for a marketer camp: Why sharing wins beats guarding them.

[40:11] Inside Higgsfield's grind: 17-hour days and an early bet on AI video.

[46:43] Organic growth's double edge. How Replika and Solid Starts hit a ceiling.

[56:14] Hire the obsessed: Why passion beats headcount on a great team.

[1:01:06] The end of black hat growth. Subscription quizzes, regulators, and a reckoning.

[1:06:45] The $1 trial that charged $350, dissected.

[1:10:32] Lightning round: Biggest win, biggest fail, and the red ocean/blue ocean divide.

On the podcast: the bootstrapper's path to $10 million in ARR, what's actually investable in consumer in 2026, and why product taste is the new bottleneck, not engineering.

Top Takeaways:

🎨 Product taste is the new bottleneck, not engineering
Build costs have collapsed, but the number of great apps is still capped by the rare ability to make hundreds of small product decisions well.

💰 There has never been a better time to bootstrap a $10M app 
With infrastructure like RevenueCat, paid UA financing, and near-zero build costs, a solo developer can now reach eight figures without ever talking to a VC.

🔒 Low churn is the only thing that makes consumer investable
Network effects and deep AI-powered personalization are the two credible paths to building a subscription product that retains long enough to compound.

🚫 Don't raise venture unless you can articulate the billion-dollar outcome 
Venture capital comes with preferred stock, liquidation preferences, and outcome expectations that will make your life miserable if the ceiling ends up being $10M, not $1B.

🏗️ Bootstrap first, raise later if the market proves bigger
Building a cash-flowing business before raising gives you better terms, less dilution, and the option to stay indie if the venture-scale opportunity never materializes.

🛡️ Apps aren't going anywhere — agents won't replace beautiful visual experiences
People want to interface with products using their eyeballs, and dedicated apps built by focused teams will always beat bespoke AI-generated software.

About Andrew Maguire:
🚀Andrew founded Volo Ventures in 2021 and is now the Managing Partner. Andrew has spent 20 years building and backing technology companies. He founded Looksharp (acquired) and later became a Partner at Oakhouse Partners, where he invested in a top-decile fund. He also served as COO of The Mind Company, helping scale Elevate (Apple's App of the Year) and Balance (Google's Best App of the Year).

👋 LinkedIn

🖥️Volo Ventures

💻 Zo Computer

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Episode Highlights:

[1:36] The consumer thesis: Why AI makes this a great time to build consumer apps.

[3:39] The real bottleneck: Taste and judgment, not capital, drive app quality.

[6:49] Money doesn't buy PMF: Why more engineers won't get you there faster.

[11:12] Breaking the one-shot myth: How X1 turns app-building into modular decisions.

[13:09] Neutral by design: What models trained to avoid a point of view cost consumer products.

[19:29] The power of utility: Why 15-year-old apps like Strava still win.

[22:48] The indie developer moment: Building a $10M app without raising a dime.

[25:39] The personal coach thesis: How AI personalization creates a new moat.

[28:02] The inference cost bet: Why timing matters more than direction.

[36:36] Should you raise venture capital: A real conversation with a founder chasing the wrong outcome.

[38:28] Debt vs. equity: What venture debt and preferred stock mean for founders.

[53:00] The problem with star ratings: Why review farming broke app quality signals.

[1:02:31] Biggest fail of the year: The rise in AI-driven security incidents.

On the podcast: reaching brand-new audiences through web funnels, how they created their own ‘Big Mac index’ for global pricing, and why monthly plans can beat annual for LTV.

Top Takeaways:

🌐 Web funnels unlock audiences that app stores can't reach
Moving users from a lean-back social scrolling mindset to an active download requires an intermediate web flow to build intent and explain value.

🍔 Global pricing requires more than currency conversion
Building a custom purchasing power index for international markets can dramatically increase conversion, but impact can be further improved by combining it with deep, culturally aware localization.

🗓️ Monthly plans create a faster feedback loop for product value
While annual plans offer better upfront cash flow, monthly subscriptions provide the undeniable truth about usage and retention. With strong retention, monthly plans can generate much higher lifetime value.

🎨 Delightful product moments are the best ad creatives
Features that create genuine emotional reactions—like bringing a child's drawing to life—naturally become high-performing marketing assets because they clearly demonstrate the product's core value.

🤝 Treating platforms as partners yields strategic advantages
Sharing roadmaps, challenges, and user insights with Apple and Google unlocks beta access and design partnerships that adversarial approaches miss.

About Yoav Sharon:
🎹 Head of Growth and Product at Simply, the company behind Simply Piano, Simply Guitar, Simply Sing, and Simply Draw, which are apps used by millions of learners across more than 180 countries.

👋 LinkedIn

💪 X

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Episode Highlights:
[2:57] Dreams into habits: Helping people learn creative skills through smaller steps.

[7:10] The portfolio playbook: How Simply expanded into different instruments.

[10:05] Avoiding cannibalization: Measuring interactions between apps and channels across a multi-product business.

[15:15] Family first: Why multi-profile and multi-app households become the strongest retention segment.

[18:02] Beyond attribution: How web funnels unlocked new audiences and new growth channels.

[21:11] From lean-back to action: Using onboarding flows to move users from passive browsing into active intent.

[24:24] Web as audience expansion: Why Simply views web funnels as a growth engine, not a fee-reduction strategy.

[26:26] Partners, not platforms: Building close relationships with Apple and Google.

[32:54] The future of learning: Why immersive platforms could transform skill development.

[37:52] The case for monthly plans: How faster renewal cycles improve product learning and LTV.

[44:24] The truth about pricing: Balancing annual discounts with long-term customer value.

[50:54] The localization advantage: Building a pricing model inspired by the Big Mac Index.

[56:01] Japan surprise: The localization lesson that completely changed a paywall strategy.

[59:11] AI and visible value: Bringing children's drawings to life and increasing willingness to pay.

Every year, Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference introduces updates that ripple through the App Store economy for years to come. In this special post-WWDC edition of Sub Club Live, host David Barnard sits down with RevenueCat developer advocate Charlie Chapman and world-renowned growth expert Thomas Petit to cut through the keynote hype. Together, they analyze the technical realities and strategic implications of the biggest announcements coming out of Apple Park.

Rather than offering a generic recap of consumer features, the panel focuses entirely on the practical mechanics that impact subscription app growth, retention, and monetization. From the deprecation of SiriKit in favor of mandatory App Intents to the introduction of App Store Creative Assets and new subscription bundling options, this session provides a clear roadmap of what subscription businesses should test immediately, adopt eventually, or safely ignore.

More content from the RevenueCat family:
👉 Launched – Our sister show that features indie app developers and solo creators about what it really takes to ship something new into the world: https://www.youtube.com/@LaunchedFM
👉 StartApp School – Practical courses on monetization, growth, acquisition, and everything else that turns an app into a business. Completely free: https://www.startapp.school/
👉 RevenueCat blog: Mobile Paywalls: The Ultimate Guide for Subscription Apps: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/guide-to-mobile-paywalls-subscription-apps/
👉 Subscription App Churn: Why Users Cancel and How to Fix It: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/subscription-app-churn-reasons-how-to-fix/
👉 App Trial Conversion Rate: Benchmarks and Insights: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/app-trial-conversion-rate-insights/
👉 Apple Search Ads: The Complete Guide for App Marketers: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/apple-search-ads-guide/
📆 Subscribe to the Sub Club livestream calendar: https://rev.cat/subclubcalendar
🔔 Subscribe to the Sub Club YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SubClubPodcast?sub_confirmation=1

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David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
00:00 Intro
01:11 Welcome to Sub Club Live WWDC 2026 Special Edition
02:00 Upcoming Events: UGC Marketing & Meta Ads Masterclass
03:02 Meet the Panel: Charlie Chapman & Thomas Petit
04:47 Is Apple Competing for Payments? The "Carrot Era" of the App Store
08:45 Why Apple Omitted Hardware Announcements This Year
10:33 Keynote Vibes: A Return to a More Authentic, Humble Apple
17:07 The Siri Overhaul: Hands-On Beta Impressions of iOS 27 Speed
24:22 App Intents: The Mandatory Shift That Could Make Your App Invisible|
01:21:54 App Store Creative Assets: Images & Videos in Search Results
01:31:51 Custom Product Pages: A Workaround for Testing Header Images
01:35:06 The App Store Cleanup: Why Apple Is Cracking Down on Limited Utility Apps
01:38:42 The Ad Attribution Stalemate: Why Apple Didn't Update SKAdNetwork
01:13:11 Seat-Based Licensing & Group Pricing: Supporting Prosumer & B2B Apps
01:05:05 Subscription Bundles & Suites: New Packaging and Retention Strategies
01:45:57 Live Q&A: Resetting Trial Eligibility & App Store Cancellation APIs
01:49:38 Outro & Wrap Up

On the podcast: why authentic founder-led content outperforms, tapping into HSA payments to unlock a whole new audience, and the growth lever no dashboard can measure.

Top Takeaways:

🗣️ Authentic founder-led content consistently outperforms manufactured UGC
Real expertise and genuine personality compound over time in a way no UGC agency can replicate — and it shows up in your conversion metrics.

🏥 HSA payments can open your app to a whole new paying audience
Accepting pre-tax HSA dollars at checkout effectively gives eligible users a 30–40% discount — and targets people who already see your app as a health investment, not a discretionary spend.

📊 The growth lever no dashboard can measure is trust
You can't A/B test trust, but you can see it in every downstream metric — trial conversion, retention, word-of-mouth. The apps that invest in it consistently outperform benchmarks across the board.

🧪 Removing the free trial can dramatically increase paid monthly subscriptions
If your audience already trusts you, a free trial is just a delay. Removing it from a monthly plan can force high-intent users to commit — and the results can be dramatic.

🏗️ Consolidating multiple apps into one ecosystem reduces user confusion and increases LTV 
A portfolio of niche apps sounds smart but usually just creates decision fatigue. One cohesive ecosystem lets you go deeper, price lower, and keep users longer.

About Nancy Anderson:

🚀 Founder & Business Owner of Natal, Birth Recovery Center, Nancy Anderson Fit, & Move Your Bump, digital health and fitness platforms supporting a global community of hundreds of thousands of women each month through pregnancy, postpartum recovery, and long-term strength.

👋 LinkedIn

💪 Website

📱 Instagram

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Fitness is expensive; HSA payments make programs more accessible.
[1:36] Identified a gap: limited science-based programs for pre/postnatal women.
[2:38] Shifted from in-person to online coaching, keeping high-touch engagement.
[4:20] First online challenge: 100 participants, before-and-after results drove organic growth.
[5:51] Lessons from multiple apps; pivot to a single custom ecosystem.
[6:53] Founder-led growth: build trust before selling.
[9:30] Audience quality over follower count; engagement drives retention.
[11:39] Treating online clients like real-life clients strengthens the connection.
[14:50] Authentic, relatable content strategy.
[18:52] Real coaches respond to all DMs, comments, and emails within 24 hours.
[22:06] Soft selling drives high trial conversion and app downloads.
[27:01] Prioritize long-term trust over short-term revenue.
[30:27] User feedback informs product roadmap; App Rehab program launched.
[36:08] Consolidated four apps into one to reduce decision fatigue.
[38:45] HSA integration opens access for new audiences.
[46:47] Onboarding logic: phase-specific content improves activation.
[48:57] In-app community boosts early engagement and retention.
[50:15] Posture assessment acts as an organic “lead magnet.”
[51:23] Avoid free workouts to maintain perceived program value.
[53:43] HSA simplifies pre-tax payments and incentivizes subscriptions.
[59:15] Closing: trust-first, founder-led growth is sustainable for niche apps

On the podcast: about making growth everyone’s job, protecting the free experience even when it hurts conversion, and why an inconclusive experiment is the only kind he hates.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 An inconclusive experiment is the only true failure
A losing test teaches you what doesn't work, but an inconclusive one wastes time and yields zero learnings.

💰 Protecting the free tier can be your biggest competitive moat
Stripping value from free users to force conversions often sacrifices long-term network effects for a short-term revenue bump.

📊 Growth is a company-wide system, not an isolated team 
When every department—from finance to HR—has the tools and mandate to run experiments, velocity compounds.

🤖 Machine learning can unlock new subscriber segments without cannibalizing existing ones
Predictive targeting can identify users willing to pay for a premium tier who would have otherwise ignored the standard offer.

💬 Social dynamics dictate virality, not in-app buttons
You can't force referral loops if your core demographic doesn't naturally share products; understand who actually drives word-of-mouth before building features for it.

About Giordano Contestabile:

🚀VP of Product at Life360, the family connection and safety app. Life360’s mission is to keep people close to the ones they love.

👋LinkedIn

📍Life360

💭Life360 Careers

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Why Life360 refuses to weaken its free tier for short-term subscription growth.
[1:35] Inside Life360: 100M users, subscription scale, and the company’s growth strategy.
[4:01] Why growth should be a system, not just a dedicated team.
[5:54] How Life360 enables every team to run experiments and contribute to growth.
[9:13] Velocity, win rate, and the experimentation framework driving compounded growth.
[12:40] Why segmentation and machine learning personalization matter more than broad averages.
[16:10] Using contextual onboarding and feature education to improve long-term retention.
[18:13] Why the first 7 days determine whether users stick around for years.
[21:44] How AI personalization is making sophisticated growth tactics accessible to smaller apps.
[21:58] Why Life360 protects its free experience even when it costs short-term revenue.
[25:15] The tension between freemium monetization and long-term product trust.
[29:24] How Life360 measures LTV across subscriptions, devices, ads, and virality.
[31:38] Why the “circle” changes everything about Life360’s product and monetization strategy.
[35:16] How pets, Tile devices, and hardware products increase retention and LTV.
[39:17] The vision for Life360 as a family super app.
[43:20] Ads, partnerships, and monetization strategies designed to add user value.
[47:48] The machine learning experiment that doubled platinum subscriptions.
[49:43] The biggest failed experiments and why “parents are not viral.”
[52:46] Why growth gets easier when every team thinks like a growth team.

On the podcast: why retention is the only real moat, how dropping paid conversion from 20% to 9% increased revenue, and why he sees the rise in competition as a net positive for Opal.

Top Takeaways:

🔄 Retention is the only real moat
While revenue and acquisition grab headlines, the ability to keep users coming back is the ultimate proof of value and the only sustainable foundation for a consumer app.

📉 Dropping paid conversion can multiply revenue 
Giving away more of the core product for free might cut conversion rates in half, but the resulting explosion in organic growth and daily active users can pay back tenfold in the long run.

🤝 The "would a free user recommend it?" test determines freemium success 
If the free tier feels like a restricted trial rather than a complete experience, it won't generate the word-of-mouth growth needed to make a freemium model work.

🎨 Teams create product soul, you can't vibe code a brand 
AI can instantly generate functional tools, but building a multi-billion dollar category winner requires a distinct brand, emotional resonance, and a team that cares about the details.

🤖 AI should be built to make the user win
Instead of using new technology to trick users or add flashy but useless features, AI implementation must be entirely focused on delivering more of the app's core value to the user.

About Kenneth Schlenker:
🚀 Founder & CEO, Opal, a free and fun app to improve your focus and make the most of every day, with 10M+ people improving their focus. Opal's core mission is to align computers with human well-being.

👋 LinkedIn

💭 @kschlenker on X

💻 Opal website

📌 Opal careers

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Episode Highlights:
(00:00) Introduction to Kenneth Schlenker and Opal
(01:21) From $5 Million to $10 Million ARR: Scaling the Business
(02:11) The Mindset Shift from Efficiency to Company Building
(04:06) The Importance of Teams and Brand in Building a Product’s Soul
(05:07) AI in Consumer Apps: Enhancing Value for Users
(07:24) Freemium Model: The Pros and Cons of Giving Opal Away for Free
(10:47) Organic Growth and Network Effects with the Freemium Model
(12:45) The Value of Retention: The Only Real Moat
(13:37) Why Competition in the Screen Time App Space is a Positive
(15:07) Opal’s Expansion into Schools: Aligning with the Mission
(19:56) The Importance of Building the Most Loved Brand in the Screen Time Space
(23:56) Retention Metrics and Organic Growth Strategies
(27:43) Balancing the Focus on Product with Business Sustainability
(30:14) The Role of AI in Enhancing User Experience
(32:10) Leveraging Customer Feedback to Drive Product Improvements
(35:01) Importance of Having a Strong, Authentic Connection with the Product’s Community
(38:12) Future Plans for Opal: Innovation and New Features
(42:04) Closing Thoughts on Opal's Journey and Future Prospects

On the podcast: how AI can turn your onboarding from a chore into magic, hyper-personalized experiences that drive both retention and revenue, and why your value-to-noise ratio matters more than how many features you ship.

Top Takeaways:

⏱️ AI can make the first 60 seconds of onboarding feel like magic
When a new user experiences a personalized, interactive setup rather than a generic questionnaire, they are significantly more likely to convert to a trial on day zero.

🪞 Hyper-personalization is the new competitive moat

Adapting the product experience to an individual's unique needs creates a sense of being heard, which distances an app from generic competitors and drives long-term retention.

💪 Extrinsic triggers are essential for building new habits
In an ecosystem flooded with distractions, subtle and useful reminders—like calendar integrations or desktop widgets—help users remember to engage with a product until it becomes an intrinsic habit.

💭 The value-to-noise ratio matters more than the feature count
Adding more AI features increases absolute value, but if it overwhelms the user's capacity to absorb the product, the overall experience degrades; pruning features is as important as shipping them.

💰 Cheaper LLMs often provide a good enough user experience compared to frontier models 
For many consumer use cases, the speed and cost-efficiency of a smaller model outweigh the marginal performance gains of the most expensive options.

📊 Multi-step paywalls can unlock massive growth for the right product
Transitioning from a hard paywall to a freemium model with strategic upgrade prompts can dramatically increase the top of the funnel and overall LTV, though it requires a highly retentive core product.

About Phil Carter:

🚀Founder & CEO, Elemental Growth, growth advisor and angel investor who helps Seed - Series C consumer subscription companies define their growth strategy, build their growth model, hire their growth team, scale their growth processes, optimize their growth channels, and achieve their full potential.

👋LinkedIn

🎙️Submersive Podcast

📚Consumer Subscription Growth Course (Maven)

💭@philgcarter on X

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] The AI Opportunity: Why this is a once-in-a-generation moment for app builders.
[2:31] The Subscription Value Loop: Value creation, delivery, and capture explained.
[6:34] Magical First Impressions: How AI is transforming onboarding and day 0 conversion.
[13:03] Hyper-Personalization: Why “n-of-1” experiences are the new competitive edge.
[19:58] Building Habits: Using triggers to drive retention and repeat usage.
[25:02] Shipping Fast: Why speed of innovation is now critical to survival.
[30:28] Product-Led Growth: How AI apps are driving viral loops and organic acquisition.
[35:05] Community & Content: Leveraging UGC and creators to scale adoption.
[39:09] AI + Paid Growth: Scaling creatives and lowering CAC with AI tools.
[46:10] Monetization in the AI Era: Pricing, tiers, and usage-based models.
[54:53] Trials, Freemium, and Costs: Rethinking free access in AI products.
[1:01:29] Wins, Fails, and Lessons: What’s working (and not) in subscription growth today.

On the podcast: the product-driven growth loop behind the #1 VPN app in the world, why they intentionally leave money on the table, and how the prettiest design often loses in their A/B tests.

Top Takeaways:

📐 Your top-of-funnel is a product decision, not a marketing one
The apps that dominate app store search aren't winning because of ad spend; they're winning because frictionless, high-quality free experiences generate the ratings volume and engagement signals that compound into organic dominance.

💸 A low conversion rate can be a sign of a great free product
If your free tier is genuinely excellent, your conversion rate will look bad on paper. That's not a problem to fix — it's a trade-off to own deliberately, especially if volume and LTV math still works.

🛡️ Restraint in monetization is a growth strategy 
Aggressive paywalls, forced ads on first install, and dark patterns erode the trust that drives word-of-mouth and ratings. Leaving money on the table in the short term protects the flywheel that generates far more over time.

🔧 Service quality is the moat that marketing can't replicate 
The first 85% of any app is a commodity. The last 15% — the edge cases, the network transitions, the offline states — is where category leaders are built and where competitors quietly give up.

🗂️ Put customer support inside the product team 
When support reports to product rather than a separate org, the feedback loop from user pain to product fix closes in days, not months. The slower the loop, the more quality debt you accumulate.

📸 Your A/B test data will humble your design instincts 
The prettier, more modern screenshot almost always loses. Users gravitate toward what they already recognize, and familiarity beats novelty in app store conversion tests far more often than designers expect.

About Tanuj Chatterjee:

🚀CEO, Super Unlimited,a global leader in building trusted VPN, eSIM, and security products that put users' privacy first.

👋LinkedIn

📲Super Unlimited Careers Page

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] The Super Unlimited Journey: From product acquisition to global success.
[3:15] Building a Billion-Download VPN: How Super Unlimited achieved such rapid growth.
[6:50] The Freemium Philosophy: Why Super Unlimited offers a powerful free version of their app.
[10:00] Monetization and User Trust: How they balance free and paid models without over-monetizing.
[14:30] Service Quality Over Design Trends: The surprising reason Super Unlimited keeps it simple.
[20:45] User Privacy: How Super Unlimited protects users while scaling.
[25:10] The Power of Organic Growth: How word-of-mouth and product-driven growth led to massive success.
[30:00] Handling Global Challenges: The complexities of serving users in different regions.
[35:00] The Future of Super Unlimited: What’s next for Super Unlimited as they expand their product suite.
[40:02] Lessons for Entrepreneurs: What Tanuj has learned along the way and the advice he’d give to new founders.

On the podcast: hitting $1M ARR in four months with no paid ads, why trial extensions beat discounts for saving cancellations, and why you should be hiring content creators, not influencers.

Top Takeaways:

📈 Momentum is oxygen — get to revenue fast
Reaching your first dollars quickly, even with a minimal product, creates a flywheel of confidence and capital that compounds over time.

🎯 Frame your product as a solution, not a toy 
Content that positions your app as the answer to a real problem converts; content that makes it look fun and novel does not.

🤝 Hire content creators, not influencers
Follower counts are irrelevant in the age of algorithmic distribution. Look for creators with 5K followers and a Gmail address, avoid influencers repped by an agency.

⏳ Trial extensions beat discounts for saving cancellations
When a user tries to cancel during a free trial, offering more time converts better than offering a lower price, and it avoids devaluing your product.

🚪 Move login to after the paywall
Forcing account creation before users have experienced any value is a silent conversion killer. Removing it from the front of onboarding can cut drop-off by 10% or more.

About Brett Bauman & Zack Hargett:

🚀Brett Bauman & Zack Hargett, Co-founders, Coconote, an AI-powered note-taking app revolutionizing how students engage with lectures.

👋 Brett Bauman LinkedIn

👋 Zack Hargett LinkedIn

💬Brett on X  - @brttbmn

💬Zack on X- @zackhargett

🖥️ Quizlet website

📩  Quizlet careers

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introducing Coconote: The AI note-taking app that scaled to millions in ARR
[2:15] The founding insight: Why students desperately needed better notes
[5:05] Launch momentum: Hitting $100K ARR in the first 45 days
[7:40] From idea to $1M ARR in just four months
[10:12] Why most founders misunderstand marketing early on
[12:31] The key distribution insight: Where your customers actually spend time online
[15:22] Creator marketing vs influencer marketing: Why the difference matters
[18:05] How short-form content became Coconote’s primary growth engine
[21:40] Turning viral attention into real revenue with better messaging
[24:25] Premium pricing for students: Why Coconote charged $99+ per year
[27:11] Building trust when your product affects exams and grades
[30:03] Improving conversions: The onboarding experiments that increased trial starts
[33:20] Removing friction: Why login moved after the paywall
[36:05] Retention lessons: Why trial extensions beat discounts
[39:00] The psychology behind cancellations and keeping users subscribed
[42:10] Managing explosive growth while keeping the team small
[45:35] Acquisition conversations with Quizlet begin
[48:10] Keeping acquisition talks confidential while running the company
[51:05] The emotional moment when the acquisition finally closed
[54:01] Reflecting on the journey from scrappy startup to exit
[56:22] Final lessons for founders building AI products today

On the podcast: how ElevenLabs turns every new feature launch into a growth engine, how they're deploying over a hundred million dollars in paid ads, and why directing AI agents is quickly becoming a core skill for marketers and solo founders.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🚀Turn every feature launch into a full-funnel growth engine
Don't just ship and announce. Coordinate each release across organic posts, landing pages, and refreshed ad creative simultaneously so earned attention compounds into paid efficiency.

💰Train a custom GPT on your own winning ad copy
Feed your top and bottom performing Meta and Google copy into a custom GPT, then use it to rapidly translate brand messaging into proven high-performing ad formats. It turns institutional knowledge into a scalable creative tool.

🤖Directing AI agents is the new core marketing skill
The future of marketing isn't just using AI tools but directing agents to handle messaging, storyboarding, ad creation, and localization, all grounded in your creative taste and brand direction.

About Luke Harries:

🚀Growth / Engineering at ElevenLabs, is an AI research and product company transforming how we interact with technology. Their vision is to make communication and creation with technology seamless.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Luke Harries, Growth Lead at ElevenLabs
[1:05] ElevenLabs' approach to growth through "growth engines"
[2:20] The power of AI to unlock viral moments during product launches
[3:34] How ElevenLabs maximizes attention through paid ads alongside earned media
[4:41] The role of AI in optimizing ad copy and creative for paid campaigns
[5:42] Balancing AI-generated content with UGC and in-house production
[7:32] Why ElevenLabs stays away from AI influencers for product endorsements
[8:51] Leveraging user-generated content (UGC) for effective campaigns
[10:30] How ElevenLabs plans to spend over $100M in paid ads and approach campaign scaling
[11:38] The importance of localization and segmentation in paid advertising
[12:56] How ElevenLabs measures success and uses data to adjust their budget allocation
[13:18] Blending brand-building with performance marketing
[14:53] The future of marketing with AI-driven creative direction
[16:39] How AI could enable solo founders to create billion-dollar startups
[17:45] ElevenLabs' upcoming product, Flows, and recruitment efforts

On the podcast: why app economy disruption won't happen as fast as everyone seems to think, how AI is just as useful for defending against copycats as creating them, and why the real barrier to app success is still distribution, not code. 

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

📲Distribution is the moat, not code
As AI lowers the barrier to building apps, it raises the barrier to getting discovered. More software competing for attention means user acquisition becomes harder and more expensive, not easier.

🛡️Use AI to defend against copycats, not just to build faster
Use AI to scan the app store daily for copycat apps, monitor rising competitors, and track their ads. Build automated defense processes that keep you ahead of clones.

📊App economy disruption won't happen as fast as everyone thinks
No-code tools, game engines like Unity, and now vibe coding have all promised to democratize app building. None eliminated the real barriers: distribution, product intuition, and the compounding advantage of iterating on user feedback over years.

About Eric Seufert:

🚀Founder of Mobile Dev Memo, a mobile advertising and freemium monetization trade blog.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Eric Seufert, Founder of Mobile Dev Memo
[1:00] Why disruption in the app economy is taking longer than expected
[2:00] The real barrier to app success: Distribution over code
[3:15] How AI is reshaping app development and marketing
[4:30] Eric’s thoughts on why AI won’t eliminate the need for great apps
[5:45] Standing out in a saturated app market: How to break through
[7:00] The role of customer feedback in driving growth
[8:15] Why vibe coding isn’t sustainable for scalable app development
[9:30] Using AI defensively against copycats in the app economy
[10:45] The importance of scalable user acquisition strategies
[12:00] The long-term impact of AI on app monetization
[13:15] Balancing revenue and user experience in app monetization
[14:30] Why building a successful app requires technical expertise and distribution
[15:45] The evolving app economy and AI’s future role in scaling
[17:00] Closing thoughts on staying competitive in an ever-changing market

On the podcast: product-driven retention as the foundation for lifecycle marketing, working backwards from results to nail activation, and why talking to individual users can lead you astray.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 Product-driven retention is the foundation for lifecycle marketing
Lifecycle marketing hacks and perfect push notifications won't save you if the core product doesn't deliver results. Work backwards from what users say in five-star reviews to identify the results that matter, then build the product loop around consistently delivering those results.

📊 Teach features in the moment, not in onboarding
Users adopt features at far higher rates when coached during the action itself. In-context prompts while users are actively engaged are far more effective than FAQs or standalone tutorials.

⚡ Surveys beat user interviews for consumer product decisions
Individual interviews with five to ten users can lead you astray in diverse consumer markets. Large-scale recurring surveys provide stronger signal and reduce the risk of over-indexing on outlier feedback.

About Ben Gammon: 

🚀 VP of Product at Ladder, a fitness app dedicated to providing the world's best strength training plan from the world's best coaches, every single day.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Ben Gammon, VP of Product at Ladder
[1:08] Ben explains product-driven retention at Ladder
[1:55] Retention is the key metric for Ladder's success
[2:50] Activation: Work backward from user results to simplify the experience
[3:53] Introducing the journal feature to track progress and boost retention
[6:10] The journal as a reinforcement loop for ongoing user engagement
[6:37] The widget: A powerful external tool for retention and reminders
[7:30] Using subconscious interactions with the widget to maintain user engagement
[8:09] Balancing user feedback with business goals and company vision
[9:23] Collecting feedback through chat, surveys, and AI tools
[10:19] Using feedback to create a positive feedback loop for improvements
[11:47] Nutrition tracking: The next major retention challenge
[14:15] Hybrid users (workout + nutrition) show higher retention rates
[15:03] Secondary product-market fit: How nutrition complements fitness goals
[17:03] User expectations vs. behavior: Asking for features but not always using them
[18:08] AI and data help guide product iteration and decision-making
[19:02] Ladder's vision for product expansion and retention growth
[19:33] Ben discusses building a product-first team and a strong culture
[20:01] Closing thoughts on user-focused product development

On the podcast: what the explosion in new apps means for the market, how the top 10% of apps grew 306% while the median barely beat inflation, and why hard paywalls convert 5X better than freemium.

This conversation is focused on RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.
 
Head to https://www.revenuecat.com/state-of-subscription-apps to download the report.

Top Takeaways:

📊 The app economy is a sorting machine
The top 10% of apps grew 306% while the median grew just 5.3%, and that gap is only widening as AI raises the ceiling for the best-positioned apps.

💰 Hard paywalls crush freemium on conversion, but context matters
Hard paywalls convert five times better than freemium (10.7% vs 2.1% download-to-paid by day 35) with nearly identical year-one retention, but freemium remains the right call when free users drive word of mouth, network effects, or long-term brand scale.

⚡ Day zero is your best shot at converting a user
The first session is when users decide both whether to pay and whether to stay. The majority of trial cancellations happen on day zero, meaning users who don't see value immediately rarely come back to find it.

🤖 AI apps sell, but they don't stick 
AI-powered apps generate 41% more revenue per customer but people churn 30% faster. Apps that solve that retention problem early will own their category; those that don't are just riding a wave of consumer curiosity.

📈 The App Store is experiencing a supply shock
The number of new subscription apps launching each month has grown 7X since 2022, creating a hyper-competitive environment where distribution, not just features, is the primary barrier to success.

About RevenueCat: 

🚀Jacob Eiting, CEO at RevenueCat.

👋LinkedIn

🚀David Barnard, Growth Advocate at RevenueCat.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:27] Unpacking the key findings from the 2026 State of Subscription Apps Report
[2:52] How “vibe coding” and new AI development tools have dramatically lowered the barrier to building apps
[5:42] The emerging “supply shock” in the app economy as cheaper development leads to a flood of new apps competing for the same users
[20:13] Breaking down the SOSA report methodology and why low-traffic apps were excluded from the dataset
[21:57] Why the report separates AI apps from non-AI apps—and how AI apps tend to generate higher revenue per paying user
[23:15] The explosion of new subscription apps, with launches increasing roughly 7× since 2022
[25:33] Why iOS now accounts for about 77% of new subscription app launches, and what that says about platform economics
[30:19] The “power law” reality of the app economy: the top 10% of apps grew 306%, while the median app barely grew
[39:20] A key finding from the report: hard paywalls convert about five times better than freemium models
[45:42] Trial behavior insights: over half of free-trial cancellations happen on day zero
[47:40] The “billion-dollar leak” on Google Play: a large share of cancellations come from involuntary billing failures
[51:21] The AI app paradox: AI apps generate higher revenue per payer but also churn faster than traditional apps
[54:51] Why longer free trials appear to convert better—and why the data may reflect correlation rather than causation
[1:00:54] How AI agents could change how developers analyze subscription business data

On the podcast: breaking free from the paid acquisition treadmill, how to repurpose offline events into millions of online impressions, and why a celebrity partnership can go viral but still completely flop.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 Measure brand campaigns by search uplift, not cost per install
Comparing offline and other brand campaign CPAs to paid acquisition CPAs kills creativity before it starts. Track branded search lift and run awareness surveys instead.

📹Design every offline moment for online distribution
Bring ad creatives to your events and plan for UGC from the start. An in-person activation that reached 15,000 people generated over 4 million impressions once repurposed across ads, social, and even LinkedIn.

⚠️Celebrity reach without audience fit is wasted spend
A famous partner whose audience doesn't overlap with your ICP will move zero needles. Calm's LeBron James partnership was their most expensive and worst-performing campaign because his fans care about basketball, not better sleep.

About Larissa Morimoto: 

🚀 Senior Growth Manager (Special Projects) at PhotoRoom, the best AI photo and design platform for e-commerce.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Larissa Morimoto, Senior Growth Manager at PhotoRoom
[1:10] Why PhotoRoom is turning to offline marketing for growth
[2:35] How offline experiences create real human connections with users
[3:50] The importance of building brand love over chasing growth metrics
[5:10] Turning offline interactions into user-generated content (UGC)
[6:25] Why UGC is a key driver of PhotoRoom's digital strategy
[7:40] The success of PhotoRoom’s London campaign and key learnings
[9:05] How PhotoRoom uses creative campaigns to amplify brand awareness
[10:20] The role of brand awareness in scaling beyond paid acquisition
[12:15] Balancing offline and online efforts to maximize ROI
[13:05] How PhotoRoom’s focus on emotional connections leads to long-term growth
[13:45] The impact of celebrity partnerships and influencer marketing on brand perception
[15:01] PhotoRoom’s strategy for turning offline events into online assets
[16:20] Why PhotoRoom believes in repurposing content from offline campaigns for digital platforms
[17:05] The importance of testing and experimenting with new marketing strategies
[18:02] PhotoRoom’s creative offline campaigns
[19:29] Larissa shares upcoming initiatives and job openings at PhotoRoom

On the podcast: why web onboarding should sell the problem instead of the solution, how discounted paid trials are beating free trials, and why creative that flopped for app ads might crush it for web funnels.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🎯Web funnels should sell the problem, not the solution
App onboarding works by rushing users to an "aha moment" because they already want a solution. Web audiences are higher in the consideration phase, so effective web funnels go deeper on helping users recognize and personalize the problem before introducing the product.

💰Discounted paid trials outperform free trials on web
Rise found that offering a heavily discounted first month instead of a free trial improves both conversion quality and ad optimization. Free trials often attract users who cancel immediately, polluting the signal that ad platforms use to find high-value customers.

🎨Creative that flops on app campaigns can crush it on web, and vice versa
Web funnels attract a different audience than app install campaigns, often older and more e-commerce minded. Rise runs creative across both channels separately and regularly finds winners on one side that failed on the other, effectively doubling the chances of finding a hit from every creative concept.

About Leon Sasson: 

🚀 Leon is Co-Founder and CTO at Rise Science. RISE is the first energy management app that makes it easy to improve your sleep and daily energy to reach your potential. 

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] Introduction to Leon Sasson, Co-Founder & CTO at Rise Science
[1:05] Leon discusses the evolution of web funnels and their unique challenges
[2:10] The difference between app onboarding and web onboarding strategies
[3:15] How Leon’s team pivoted to improve web funnels and found success
[4:25] The shift in consumer behavior: Web audiences vs. app users
[5:50] Insights on why discounted paid trials work better than free trials on the web
[7:00] Balancing the user experience with a smooth billing process
[8:20] How to test and optimize creatives for both web and app funnels
[9:35] Leon’s approach to personalizing funnels based on user personas
[10:40] Lessons learned from handling subscription billing outside Apple’s ecosystem [11:55] The future of hybrid monetization and web/app funnel strategies 
[12:30] Closing thoughts on evolving marketing and product strategies through testing and iteration

On the podcast: how Tinder's ML-powered paywalls drove millions in new revenue, the art of selling features à la carte without killing subscription revenue, and why Tinder Select flopped despite users saying they'd pay for it.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🤖Users need fewer options, not more
Decision overload kills conversion. Tinder saw multimillion-dollar annual revenue gains by using ML to predict and surface the single best product for each user instead of showing every tier and plan at once.

🎯Anchor a la carte prices to subscriptions to prevent cannibalization
Unbundling features can capture non-subscribers, but pricing too low steals from subscription revenue. Tinder priced its standalone Passport feature equal to the weekly equivalent of a full-featured subscription, making the subscription the obvious better deal.

🧠 Design for emotional decisions, not logical ones
Users don't read every feature comparison and weigh their options rationally. They decide in seconds based on feeling. Observe how users actually behave, not how you assume they should, and build your purchase flows around that.

About Shawn Gong:

 🚀 Product Growth & Monetization at  Tinder, the world's most popular dating app, with over 55 billion matches made across 190+ countries since launching in 2012.

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Shawn Gong, Product Leader in Monetization & Growth at Tinder
[1:05] The challenge of decision overload and how Tinder tackled it with dynamic pricing
[2:47] How machine learning helps Tinder predict and serve the right product for each user
[4:25] Simplifying user choices: Reducing overwhelming options for better conversion
[5:48] Shifting from static to dynamic pricing: The role of AI in optimizing Tinder’s paywall
[7:06] A/B testing the dynamic pricing model: How Tinder validated the ML model's effectiveness
[8:12] Unbundling features like Passport mode: Meeting specific user needs without subscriptions
[9:33] The impact of pricing changes on conversion rates and subscription cannibalization
[10:57] Long-term retention metrics: Measuring the success of dynamic pricing beyond just revenue
[12:00] Tinder Select: Lessons from launching a high-end tier and why it didn’t work
[13:18] The importance of aligning product offerings with user emotions for better decision-making
[14:25] How Tinder continues to optimize pricing strategies through iterative testing and learning
[15:48] Shawn’s advice for startup founders: Focus on retention and building better product decision design

On the podcast: testing prices from $5 all the way to $120 per year, why rising CACs forced a pricing rethink, and how raising the price allows them to discount more aggressively.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

💰 Retest prices you've already ruled out 
Market conditions shift constantly. A price point that couldn't beat the control for years can suddenly break even as competitors raise prices and consumer expectations change.

📈A higher base price unlocks more aggressive discounting Going from $40 to $80 creates room for steeper percentage discounts that drive higher conversion, even when the absolute dollar price is still higher.

🔒Rising CACs demand pricing that funds acquisition At $40/year, paid UA math barely worked. Doubling the price gave the marketing team room to compete on acquisition channels where costs keep climbing.

About Patrick Rills: 

🚀 Chief Product & Technology Officer at Lose It!, the app-based weight loss program mobilizing the world to achieve a healthy weight.

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Patrick Rills, Chief Product & Technology Officer at Lose It!
[1:05] How pricing changes unlocked new growth opportunities at Lose It!
[2:12] Balancing customer acquisition costs (CAC) with retention through pricing strategy
[3:25] Key insights from years of price testing, ranging from $5 to $120 per year
[4:42] Raising prices to enable deeper discounting and improve conversions
[5:58] Aligning product value with pricing to retain loyal users
[7:06] The role of the freemium model in keeping users engaged after price increases
[8:02] Using smart pricing and AI to drive growth
[9:14] Leveraging data to fine-tune pricing decisions
[10:27] How customer feedback and product data shape pricing strategies
[11:38] Challenges and benefits of raising prices for an established product
[12:33] Future plans for pricing tiers and new monetization strategies
[13:18] Patrick shares iOS developer hiring opportunities at Lose It!
[13:41] Final thoughts on driving sustainable growth and user value

On the podcast: how Duolingo prioritizes clarity over persuasion on their paywalls, why they offer users multiple free trials instead of just one, and how adding friction to their trial reminder flow actually boosted conversions.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 Prioritize clarity over persuasion on your paywalls
Show users a timeline of exactly what happens during their trial, when they'll be charged, and how refunds work. Duolingo found that removing uncertainty about the purchase process drives more conversions than trying to sell harder.

⚡Shorter trials compound experimentation velocity
Cutting their free trial from 14 days to 7 doubled Duolingo's experimentation velocity. Faster feedback loops let the team kill losing tests sooner and run significantly more experiments per quarter.

🔬Adding friction to trial reminders can boost conversions 
Duolingo tested letting users pick which day they get their expiration reminder. The extra step signaled transparency, built trust that they wouldn't be surprised by a charge, and gave them time to experience real value before deciding.

About Anmol Tiwari:

🚀Director of Product Management at Duolingo, the world's most popular way to learn a language.

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🖥️Carers at Duolingo

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Anmol Tiwari, Director of Product at Duolingo
 [1:05] Anmol discusses Duolingo’s focus on clarity in free trials and product offerings
 [2:10] How transparency in trial terms and refunds builds confidence and boosts conversions
 [3:45] The benefits of shorter trials for faster experimentation and better user engagement
 [5:10] Why Duolingo offers multiple trials to cater to different user life stages
 [6:30] Using machine learning to personalize subscription offers and in-app ads
 [7:40] How Duolingo uses contextual paywalls to increase conversions
 [8:50] Regional differences in trial strategies, especially in markets like China
 [10:10] The impact of "free tastes" and trial-like experiences in premium tiers
 [11:30] Using timers and reward-based copy to clearly communicate trial benefits
 [13:00] How Duolingo reduces day-zero cancellations and builds trust with users
 [14:15] Personalizing paywalls based on individual user behavior
 [15:30] Experimenting with new creative strategies to promote subscriptions
 [16:40] The role of AI in optimizing engagement and conversions
 [17:50] Understanding global trial preferences, particularly in China
 [19:10] How trust drives conversions and prevents cancellations
 [19:55] Closing thoughts on how transparency, experimentation, and personalization fuel growth

On the podcast: the experiments behind Mojo's 60% lift in ARPU, why a winning paywall in Japan completely failed in the US, and why not relying on day one for most of your revenue is actually a strength.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

🌍Show free users a paywall every week after onboarding
Triggering a paywall on app open once per week for free users drove 15% of new revenue with no backlash. The more generous your free tier, the more users tolerate the ask.

💪A winning paywall in one region can completely fail in another
A long, detail-rich paywall lifted revenue 20% in Japan but flopped in the US, where cleaner designs with punchy copy outperformed. Always retest winners in each market before rolling out globally.

⚡Experiment velocity is a huge unlock for revenue optimization
Running parallel paywall tests across geo segments on a weekly cadence compounds gains fast. More iterations mean shorter feedback loops, faster learning, and fewer months leaving revenue on the table.

About Michal Parizek

🚀 Senior Growth Product Manager at Mojo, a mobile-first content creation platform that empowers businesses and creators to produce professional, animated social media content in minutes.

👋 LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Michal Parizek, Senior Growth Product Manager at Mojo
[1:02] How Mojo achieved a 60% increase in average revenue per user
[2:16] The impact of paywall design experiments on Mojo's revenue
[3:31] Why the same paywall design worked in Japan but failed in the US
[4:45] Mojo’s global pricing strategies and the role of regional differences
[5:45] How Mojo optimized early revenue with the 7-day ARPU metric
[7:02] The role of customer feedback in shaping Mojo’s growth strategies
[8:15] Testing different pricing models: How Mojo decided on the $79 price point
[9:30] Why focusing on new revenue, rather than renewals, was crucial for Mojo’s growth
[10:45] The benefits of running paywall campaigns for existing users
[12:02] How Mojo balances customer experience with aggressive monetization strategies
[13:15] The importance of experiment velocity and fast iteration in scaling Mojo
[14:34] Surprising results: Mojo’s success with paywall strategies for existing users
[15:41] Closing thoughts on scaling an app with data-driven experimentation and customer focus

On the podcast: about the cost of not tracking your experiments and decisions, how refunds and chargebacks quietly erase your paywall wins, and why stacking A/B test wins should compound your growth, but almost never does.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways:

💸 Map your revenue history before running new experiments
Chart revenue across new subscribers, upgrades, renewals, and win-backs over time. Matching spikes and dips to past decisions reveals what actually moved the business and prevents you from re-learning expensive lessons.

🤫 Refunds and chargebacks are silent killers
A paywall “win” can quickly become a net negative if you aren’t tracking the downstream effects of cancellations, refunds, and chargebacks, which often hide the true cost of a seemingly successful experiment.

📈If your A/B test wins aren't showing up in top-line growth, something is wrong
Stacking 5% and 10% experiment wins should compound, but many teams see modest growth despite a long list of "winners". Set calendar reminders to recheck winning cohorts at 3 and 6 months, especially for price changes, to catch lifts that don't hold.

About Sara Grana: 

 🚀 Revenue Strategy Lead at Yousician, a revolutionary music platform for anyone to learn, play, create, and teach music. 

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] Introduction to Sara Grana, Revenue Strategy Lead at Yousician
[1:05] The importance of tracking experiments and business decisions in subscription apps
[2:19] Mapping revenue and understanding its evolution across different user segments
[3:06] Tracking revenue changes and connecting them to business decisions
[4:34] The pitfalls of focusing too much on early funnel metrics and ignoring long-term impacts
[5:26] The impact of chargebacks and refunds on paywall performance and customer retention
[7:20] Why understanding downstream effects is crucial for making smart pricing decisions
[8:44] The challenges and opportunities of introducing new subscription plans (e.g., lifetime subscriptions)
[9:43] How commercial strategy influences churn rates and renewals
[13:13] The importance of rechecking experiments after months to measure long-term impact
[14:52] Sara's advice on when to revisit experiments based on their impact on pricing and user behavior
[15:49] Tracking cohort data for subscription retention and understanding renewal trends
[16:21] Why surprising lifts in experiments may require deeper investigation
[17:13] The mismatch between short-term experiment results and long-term growth expectations
[18:02] Final thoughts on driving sustainable growth, tracking, and adapting strategies over time

On the podcast: the tailwinds driving a boom in non-game app revenue, how vibe coding and AI workflows are fueling growth in categories that have nothing to do with AI, and why people predicting the "death of apps" have never been more wrong.

This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.

Top Takeaways: 

🚀 The app revenue boom isn't just about AI apps
Non-game in-app purchases grew 21% year over year, but only $3.5 billion came from generative AI. Billions more flowed into short dramas, social media, utilities, entertainment, and other categories.

💰 ChatGPT helped reset what consumers will pay 
Pre-AI, most consumer subscriptions topped out around $60 a year. ChatGPT normalized $20 a month, and usage-based pricing is pushing some users into hundreds monthly. AI apps monetize at 2x pre-AI ARPU.

🎯 Vertical, opinionated products beat thin AI wrappers 
Build deep products around a specific use case bigger platforms won't prioritize. The litmus test: your product should get better, not fear for its life, when the underlying models improve.

About Olivia Moore:

🚀 AI Partner at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z), a venture capital firm that backs bold entrepreneurs building the future through technology.

👋 LinkedIn

👋 @omooretweets on X

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Olivia Moore, AI Partner at Andreessen Horowitz
[1:05] Olivia discusses the role of AI in transforming startup growth strategies
[2:10] The importance of aligning product development with user needs and market demands
[3:15] How Olivia helps portfolio companies leverage AI to scale effectively
[4:25] The challenge of balancing innovation with user experience and feedback
[5:50] Olivia shares insights on identifying and seizing AI-driven market opportunities
[7:00] Navigating the complexities of integrating AI solutions into existing business models
[8:20] The importance of long-term growth strategies over quick wins
[9:35] Olivia talks about the evolving role of AI in user retention and engagement
[10:40] Discussing the ethical considerations of AI implementation in growth initiatives
[11:55] Olivia’s thoughts on the future of AI in the startup ecosystem
[12:30] Closing thoughts on driving innovation and growth through AI

On the podcast, I talk with Michael and Mark about the boom in hardware-enabled subscriptions, why nothing worked until they stopped optimizing and started building a better product, and how they doubled their price to $79 even though the data said they could charge more.

Top Takeaways:

📱 Hardware-enabled subscriptions need daily usage to work 
Devices that sit unused make subscription value harder to justify, but products that become the heartbeat of daily routines (like a family calendar) naturally create subscription demand.

🎯 Stop optimizing when you should be building
Limited resources force careful prioritization, and sometimes the biggest wins come from building genuinely valuable features rather than running endless conversion experiments.

💰 Price based on customer emotion, not just data
Testing showed $99 would maximize revenue, but qualitative research revealed $79 felt fair while $99 approached "disgust territory," so they chose the lower price for long-term goodwill.

🏗️ Build a great product before scaling marketing
Skylight tried to scale Calendar in 2021-22 but the product wasn't ready, leading to wasted marketing spend and false negatives until they focused on getting to 40+ NPS first.

🛍️Retail partnerships are the ultimate influencer
Being in Costco and Best Buy provides a stamp of quality that can't be underestimated, and multi-channel distribution drives higher overall growth despite lower subscription attach rates in some channels.

About Michael Segal & Mark Ungerer:

🚀 CEO, Skylight

📱 Michael Segal is the CEO of Skylight, a family tech company best known for its digital frames and calendars. Michael, a former venture capitalist, brings a unique perspective to Skylight’s growth strategy, focusing on balancing growth with profitability. He shares anecdotes about Skylight’s journey from hardware to subscription models, the importance of understanding customers' emotions about pricing, and how the team navigates the challenges of scaling both hardware and software.

👋 LinkedIn

🚀 CPO, Skylight

📱 Mark Ungerer is the Chief Product Officer at Skylight, where he leads product strategy, development, and design. With a keen focus on creating seamless user experiences, Mark discusses Skylight’s approach to subscriptions, how they test and refine features based on user feedback, and the key role retail partnerships play in building trust and credibility. 

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] The balance between growth and profit: Making decisions based on business goals
[3:22] Timing the introduction of subscriptions: Skylight's early adoption and consumer reception
[5:35] The hardware-enabled subscription boom: Market maturity and Skylight’s position
[8:00] Unique challenges of marketing hardware-enabled subscriptions: Overcoming consumer skepticism
[10:52] How Skylight integrates hardware with daily family life to drive subscription value
[12:47] Pricing strategy: The magic behind Skylight’s price increase and minimal subscriber loss
[17:43] Challenges in scaling growth: How Skylight navigates its multi-channel strategy
[24:15] Shifting from free trials to subscription: The evolution of Skylight’s approach to testing
[27:35] The importance of talking to customers: Using qualitative feedback to guide decisions
[30:00] Retail partnerships as a growth strategy
[33:45] Subscription dynamics: How pricing and subscription models shape Skylight’s business
[36:25] Scaling with limited resources: Skylight’s approach to growth without a dedicated growth PM
[38:40] Navigating hardware, software, and subscription moats
[42:00] Biggest win: The success of the $79 subscription price increase
[44:05] Biggest fail: Learning from free trial experiments and the need for more growth testing
[46:01] Growth would be easier with more resources and strategic price adjustments for wider market reach
[48:30] The importance of reducing friction in onboarding for increased conversions
[52:30] The challenges of balancing customer acquisition with retention efforts
[55:02] Skylight's vision for long-term customer value and growth
[57:45] The impact of reducing friction in purchasing: How simple changes can dramatically increase conversion rates
[59:10] Closing thoughts on growth strategy: Aiming for long-term success, not short-term wins

On the podcast we talk with Tanmay and Jack about how earned media can drive paid performance, building features that make for good tweets, and why stripping out your onboarding quiz might beat optimizing it.

Top Takeaways:

📊Pricing should match how users think — not how AI works
One of the biggest wins came from simplifying pricing. For ElevenReader, selling listening time instead of tokens or credits dramatically improved clarity and conversion. Abstracting away AI complexity for consumers is not dumbing things down — it’s good product sense.

🏎️Small, autonomous “pods” enable speed to become the moat

Instead of one massive org, ElevenLabs operates like 10–12 startups inside the company. Small teams with full ownership can ship fast, iterate relentlessly, and make real product decisions without waiting on heavy processes — a critical edge in fast-moving AI markets.

💸Earned media compounds — and fuels paid performance

ElevenLabs treats launches as compounding assets. Each launch earns attention, which boosts branded search, improves paid efficiency, and makes future launches stronger. Growth isn’t just ads vs. organic — it’s a flywheel where story, brand, and performance reinforce each other.

🕊️Start launches with the “tweet thread,” not the feature
Before building launch assets, teams write the Twitter/X thread first. If a feature can’t be explained clearly and compellingly in a short narrative, it’s a red flag. This keeps teams focused on real user value instead of shipping “flashy but hollow” features.

🌐 Consumer apps are a strategic advantage for platform companies
ElevenLabs doesn’t see consumer apps as competing with its API customers — they’re a force multiplier. Being their own best customer helps them build better APIs, understand real user needs, and strengthen brand affinity across creators, consumers, and developers.

About Tanmay Jain & Jack McDermott

🚀 Mobile Growth Lead,ElevenLabs

📱 Tanmay Jain leads mobile growth for the core ElevenLabs app, focused on translating ElevenLabs’ powerful web + API capabilities into a mobile-native experience that’s simple, fast, and creative-first. He brings a founder mindset from previous roles (including Canva), and shares how ElevenLabs ships through small, autonomous pods — moving quickly, running experiments (like pricing + paywalls), and holding teams accountable to what actually improves the user experience.

👋 LinkedIn

🚀 Mobile Growth Lead,ElevenReader

📱 Jack McDermott leads mobile growth for ElevenReader, ElevenLabs’ consumer app that turns PDFs, articles, and books into lifelike audio — powered by a massive catalog of high-quality voices. He breaks down how ElevenLabs uses earned media to amplify paid performance, why launches start with the “tweet thread” narrative, and how simplifying pricing (selling listening time instead of tokens) can dramatically improve consumer conversion.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Why consumers won’t pay in “tokens” — they pay in outcomes

[2:13] The case for building consumer apps and an API (without competing with customers)

[4:10] ElevenLabs’ operating system: 10–12 “speedboat” pods shipping in parallel

[7:20] The Canva spin-out lesson: award-winning product ≠ distribution or retention

[12:07] Monetization that matches intent: “hours of listening” vs creator credits

[13:30] Two growth modes at once: compounding earned-media launches + steady paid UA

[16:27] Why earned media makes paid cheaper (branded search + trust lift)

[19:30] The launch playbook: write the Twitter thread first → turn it into a video

[32:20] “Speed is the moat” — and how they avoid shipping gimmicks

[36:57] Don’t copy Spotify Wrapped — find your product’s natural shareable moment

[43:31] ElevenReader’s “aha”: bring your own PDF/ebook + pick a voice worth sharing

[56:58] Biggest fail: over-optimizing onboarding instead of testing the “strip it back” base case

On the podcast, I talk with Cem about the premium trap many apps fall into, why free trials work even for freemium products, and how ‘try for $0.00’ actually outperforms ‘try for free’.

Top Takeaways:

💡 Protect the free moat — always
 Short-term revenue tricks like paywalling free features make metrics spike — then stall. Sustainable freemium growth depends on preserving free value. It’s not just ethical; it’s strategic. Pulling back too much invites competitors to offer what you took away, weakening both your brand and your growth loop.

🧪 A/B test relentlessly — but know when to lead with intuition
 Testing is essential, but not infallible. With 400+ experiments running at once, you’ll often see trade-offs between revenue and user experience. The art of product management is knowing when to ignore short-term data and make the long-term call that preserves user trust and helps achieve strategic goals.

🔁 Freemium is a growth engine, not a trade-off
 Your free users aren’t freeloaders — they’re your marketing engine. When you improve the free experience, you strengthen organic growth through word of mouth. Growth slows when you nickel-and-dime; it compounds when you delight.

💰 Monetize with empathy, not extraction
 Introducing monetization requires a cultural shift. The key is measuring everything — retention, reviews, complaints per DAU — and optimizing for user experience, not just ARPU. Test cautiously, communicate transparently, and say no to anything that erodes trust.

🧠 Build for everyone, not a persona
 In large-scale apps, personas can be counterproductive. People learn, play, and engage for wildly different reasons. Designing for inclusivity and broad appeal helps scale from millions to billions of users without alienating key segments.

💡 Strategic and Creative Use of Ads
 Ads at Duolingo were introduced carefully with the goal of balancing monetization with a positive user experience. The focus is on surfacing ads at non-intrusive moments, such as after completing a lesson, and on carefully controlling ad content. Duolingo even partners with advertisers to integrate elements of Duolingo branding into third-party ads. 

About Cem Kansu:

🚀Chief Product Officer at Duolingo

📱 Cem Kansu is the former VP of Product at Duolingo, where he led the company’s monetization strategy, introducing ads and subscriptions that turned Duolingo into a sustainable business. With deep expertise in product development and user experience, he helped grow subscriptions to over 80% of revenue, while keeping the core product free and mission-driven.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Cem discusses balancing profitability with long-term goals

[0:36] Duolingo’s first monetization strategy: ads

[2:02] The pivot from crowdsourcing translations to new monetization models

[3:49] Streak repair as Duolingo’s first in-app purchase experiment

[5:43] Shifting company culture to embrace monetization

[7:20] The influence of investors on Duolingo’s monetization

[8:00] Introducing ads without harming user experience

[10:31] Handling user complaints and data-driven adjustments

[12:07] Ensuring ad quality through strict control

[13:53] Direct ad partnerships to improve user experience

[16:30] Ads vs subscription: monetization strategy decision

[18:43] The impact of free trials on subscription growth

[20:22] Evolution of Duolingo’s subscription offerings

[22:39] Adding features like offline learning and ad-free experiences

[24:22] Pivoting from separate apps to integrating topics in one

[26:43] Overcoming design challenges to fit new topics

[28:55] Duolingo’s competition with other screen time apps

[32:00] Leveraging AI to enhance the language learning experience

[35:18] The role of AI in Duolingo’s growth

[37:32] Balancing free vs paid features for growth

[40:24] Decisions on adding/removing premium features

[43:35] Lessons from the failed human tutor feature

[45:10] Challenges in scaling a large product like Duolingo

[47:12] Long-term growth focus and user base expansion

[49:30] Design, testing, and iteration at Duolingo

[54:10] Ongoing improvements in learning efficacy and retention

[57:15] Duolingo’s future plans and expansion goals

On the podcast, I talk with Jeff about Tinder's $50 million paywall win. Why now is such a great time to build apps, and how hard paywalls can mislead you about product-market fit.

Top Takeaways:

💡 Focus on Product-Market Fit First
 Before jumping into monetization, ensure your product truly resonates with users. Building a product that solves a real problem and captures genuine interest is the foundation for sustainable growth. Once you achieve product-market fit, monetization becomes a natural extension.

🛠 Monetization Strategies Are Evolving
 Founders are being pushed to monetize early, but the key is to test different models and find what works for your user base. Experimenting with subscription tiers and paywalls can unlock new revenue streams while preserving a great user experience. This flexibility is crucial in today’s competitive app landscape.

🚀 Experimentation is the Key to Success
 The most successful apps are built through continuous experimentation and iteration. Constantly testing new ideas—whether in pricing, features, or user engagement tactics—helps you learn and adapt quickly. Fail fast, adjust, and keep pushing forward.

📊 Data-Driven Decisions Over Gut Instincts
 Rely on data to make smarter decisions, especially when it comes to monetization and growth strategies. Properly instrumenting your app and analyzing user behavior gives you the insights needed to refine your approach. Data-driven decisions remove the guesswork and lead to more reliable outcomes.

💬 User Feedback Drives Innovation
 Your users are the best source of inspiration. Listening to their feedback and adjusting your app based on real-world experience will improve your product and increase retention. The more connected you are to your community, the more likely your app will evolve in the right direction.

🔑 The Importance of Sustainable Growth
 Building a successful app requires more than just an initial win. To scale sustainably, it’s essential to focus on long-term user value and avoid over-monetizing too early. By balancing user experience with growth strategies, you can achieve steady, lasting success.

About Jeff Morris:

🚀 Founder and General Partner at Chapter One.

📱 Jeff Morris is the former VP of Product at Tinder, where he played a key role in driving the app’s revenue and user growth. As a venture capitalist, Jeff invests in early-stage companies developing products that resonate deeply with users. His expertise spans product development, monetization strategies, and scaling businesses in competitive markets.

👋 LinkedIn

👋 Follow Jeff Morris on X - @jmj

🌎 The New Internet 

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Jeff Morris’ background and expertise at Tinder
[2:20] Monetization vs. product building: A founder’s shift in focus
[4:53] Celebrating early revenue: Real or just hype?
[6:08] Freemium model: Boosting user engagement and retention
[9:01] Monetization strategies across app categories
[11:51] The venture landscape in 2025: Challenges & opportunities
[13:05] Why it’s still a great time to build mobile apps
[14:48] Creating a sustainable subscription model
[17:27] Early-stage AI startups: New monetization opportunities
[19:20] Tinder’s journey with pricing and packaging experiments
[22:02] The success of Tinder’s three-tier subscription model
[24:41] Balancing user experience with monetization
[26:45] The role of testing and iteration in revenue decisions
[29:40] Why revenue optimization needs constant attention
[31:53] The impact of paywall features on conversion
[33:54] The power of design in driving revenue and engagement
[36:21] The future of mobile and AI-native apps
[39:11] Scaling a mobile app in 2025: Key lessons for founders
[42:45] How funding partners shape your product vision
[44:21] The role of feedback loops in creative growth
[47:30] What Jeff would have done differently at Tinder
[50:11] Key takeaways from building and scaling a high-growth product
[54:45] User-centric design: Why monetization should never come first

On the podcast, I talk with Alper about the competitive advantage of ignoring (some) best practices, the risk of drawing false conclusions when researching competitor ads, and why poor metrics are just facts until proven problematic.

Top Takeaways:

📊 Challenge Best Practices
 Test what works for your app and market, even if it goes against common advice. Adapt best practices to your data and current stage.

💡 Facts vs. Problems
 Low trial conversions aren’t always a problem—sometimes they’re just a fact of your setup. Only treat them as a problem after you’ve tested and ruled out other factors.

🎯 Quality Over Quantity in Creative Testing
 It’s not about testing hundreds of creatives—it’s about testing fewer, but with stronger hypotheses. Focus on creative iterations that drive high success rates, not just metrics.

⚖️ Strategic Control of Spend
 Set guardrails and adjust bids based on performance. Test spend limits, but always maintain control over your budget and its allocation.

💬 Be Inspired
 Learn from competitors, but don’t mimic their exact strategies. Customize based on your own data and target audience.

🔍 Instrument Your Data Right
Accurate data is key. Whether it’s MMP, in-app analytics, or creative performance, ensure you interpret results accurately to drive better decisions and scale effectively.

About Alper Taner:

🚀 Head of Performance Marketing at a stealth-mode app studio.

📱 With over 10 years in mobile growth, Alper drives user acquisition and marketing tech strategies, managing 8-figure budgets. He’s known for challenging conventional marketing practices and leveraging data to fuel growth.

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights: 

[0:00] Introduction to Alper Taner and his mobile growth expertise

[1:39] Why challenging best practices and testing your own data is crucial

[5:04] Poor metrics are facts, not problems

[8:10] Creative testing: Focus on quality and strong hypotheses, not just quantity

[12:00] Set spend guardrails and control budget allocation for better results

[15:30] Learn from competitors, but don’t copy their strategies blindly

[19:10] Accurate data is key: instrument it right for smarter decisions

[22:18] Small event mapping changes can lead to significant performance boosts

[27:00] Don’t shy away from unconventional strategies

[32:45] Iteration is key for creative optimization

[37:20] Manage budget thresholds in creative testing to avoid overspending

[41:00] Understand platform algorithms and guide them to work for you

[46:00] Use guardrails and budget caps to control spend while optimizing performance

[49:50] Balance risk and experimentation with data-backed decision-making

[54:05] Retention and user behavior drive long-term growth

[58:00] Key lessons from creative testing: Adjust based on results

[1:00:30] Mixing creativity with data is the key to optimized user acquisition

On the podcast, I talk with Greg about knowing when to pivot, why most consumer apps shouldn't raise VC, and why making free trials optional outperformed making them the default.

Top Takeaways:

📉 Know When to Pivot
 Wrangle struggled because it wasn’t solving a real problem. Burner succeeded because it met a clear need. Don’t be afraid to pivot when the product isn’t working.

💭Most Consumer Apps Don’t Need VC

Venture capital can be a blessing but also a curse. If you attract investment that doesn’t line up with your product vision or culture, the cash injection can turn out to be a costly mistake. Building a business that pays for itself is a better fit for most founders.  

🔑 Focus on Retention
 Success is about keeping users, not just acquiring them. Burner’s ability to retain users, even short-term ones, proved its value. If users keep coming back, you’ve found something meaningful.

🛠 Trials, Errors, Wins
Testing was crucial to Burner’s growth. Every experiment was a learning opportunity. Don’t guess—test continuously, especially pricing, to find what drives retention and revenue.

🎯 Small Changes, Big Results
 Minor tweaks, like switching to a free trial, led to significant growth. Optimize for retention with quick, simple changes. Even minor adjustments can have a substantial impact on results.

About Greg Cohn: 

🛫 Founder and CEO of Ad Hoc Labs

📱 Greg Cohn is the founder of Burner, the leading mobile app for managing personal privacy through disposable phone numbers. With a passion for solving real-world problems, Greg transitioned from an early startup failure to building a successful business that prioritizes user privacy, simplicity, and seamless functionality.

👋 LinkedIn
💬 Text Greg’s Burner: (323) 579-1830
🧑‍💻 Open Roles at Ad Hoc Labs (Mention “Sub Club” to get a closer look at your resume.)

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] The concept behind Wrangle, Greg’s first app

[1:39] Twilio’s role in developing Wrangle and early challenges

[3:24] Burner’s breakthrough with the “burner” feature for privacy

[9:42] Wrangle’s pivot and what went wrong

[13:36] Moving from paid downloads to a subscription model for Burner

[24:47] Importance of user feedback in shaping the Burner product

[33:24] The credit system and why it transitioned to subscriptions

[38:55] Why retention and cohort analysis are key to Burner’s success

[44:29] How Burner integrates new features like VPN for growth

[54:33] Premium tier features: phone number lookup becomes popular

[1:02:18] Bundling products: the decision to expand Burner’s offerings

[1:09:53] Greg’s thoughts on acquiring apps vs building new features

[1:23:38] Win of the year: faster paywall testing speed for Burner

On the podcast we talk with Ravi about subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables, why narratives matter more than metrics in goal-setting, and why you might want to try a longer onboarding, or a shorter one.

📊 Stack the demand curve
Tinder didn’t just offer one price—it built a staircase of value. Low-tier subs, premium upgrades, and microtransactions filled in the gaps of user willingness to pay. The result? More people paid something, and some paid a lot. Don’t pick one price point. Map the whole curve.

 🎯 Create value before monetization
The fastest way to expand your TAM? Get users to the “aha” moment faster. Tinder made onboarding nearly instant to tap into a new, younger audience. In contrast, Sesame Care increased conversions with a 25-step flow by increasing user confidence. Friction isn’t the enemy—poor timing is.

💰 Free is a monetization strategy
At Tinder, 85–90% of users never paid. But their presence was the product—fueling demand and justifying spend for the other 10–15%. Don’t underestimate free users. Sometimes, they’re the reason someone else is willing to pay.

🧪 Price is product
Tinder didn’t guess what users would pay. It ran hundreds of localized price tests across SKUs to learn what users valued. Pricing isn’t a spreadsheet exercise—it’s part of the product experience and should be tested like one.

📐 Narrative beats metrics
OKRs fail when they skip the why. Ravi’s NCTs framework, which stands for Narratives, Commitments, Tasks, anchors goals in story and context. If your team is hitting the numbers but drifting on focus, it’s probably time to start with the story—not the spreadsheet.

🪞 Monetization reveals product market fit
Most apps undercharge. A scanner app might seem basic, but if it powers daily workflows, it’s worth real money. Set your price high enough to test willingness, not just conversion. If no one bites, you don’t have a monetization problem—you have a product one.

About Ravi Mehta:
🔥 Former Chief Product Officer at Tinder and product leader at Meta, TripAdvisor, and Microsoft.

📈 Ravi helps companies turn behavioral insights into scalable monetization systems — from multi-tier subscriptions to habit-forming onboarding flows.

🗣 “If you have a product that’s solving an important need for someone, there’s a system around that that fits into the problem you’re solving, and you should think about the value of that system rather than just the price.”

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables

[3:03] Filling the demand curve with tiers and microtransactions

[6:47] Why free-to-play was Tinder’s breakthrough innovation

[10:26] Matching monetization to different user behaviors

[13:09] Creating value for whales without breaking the game

[17:22] Experimenting your way into the perfect pricing model

[20:03] When free, trial, or paid onboarding makes the most sense

[23:47] Why apps are undermonetized and how to fix it

[28:43] Why a longer onboarding boosted conversion 40%

[35:20] How shorter onboarding expanded Tinder’s total market

[43:03] Narratives, commitments, and tasks: a better goal framework

[01:02:49] Growth is easier when you own your audience

On the podcast, we talk with Eric about the opportunities and challenges of AI for consumer apps, what you can learn from Strava acquiring Runna, and the flawed thinking around ‘subscription fatigue’.

Top Takeaways:

💸 Value Overcomes Fatigue

Consumers would rather not pay for anything, but when a product delivers real value, they are happy to pay, even via subscriptions. Whether it’s training for a race, protecting memories, or learning something new, utility drives retention. Building long-term value wins every time.

🧠 Build a ‘Category Killer’

Eric identified ‘Strava for Pets’ and ‘Managing screen time and digital focus’ are opportunities for future ‘category killer’ apps. What do those two opportunities have in common? They are in categories where people are already spending a lot of money or have the opportunity to save a lot of time or money.

🤝 Build to be loved, not acquired

The best M&A strategy? Build something consumers truly love. Runna didn’t sell to Strava because they planned for it, building cool features Strava didn’t have. They sold because Runna was a fantastic product that personalized running in a way that expanded the market Strava couldn’t. 

⚙️ Growth requires tough choices

Conglomerates like Bending Spoons win through ruthless efficiency. They acquire apps, cut costs, and apply repeatable growth playbooks at scale. It can be controversial, but sometimes it takes an outsider to spot that the team that took an app to 1,000 users may not be the team to take it to 100,000 and beyond.

📈 AI changes discovery

Search behavior is shifting, and SEO is no longer the only path to discovery. AI tools are becoming the starting point for many journeys, forcing marketers to rethink how users find and engage with products. Adapting to this shift means reimagining acquisition, not just tacking on AI features.

About Eric Crowley: 

👨‍💼 Partner at GP Bullhound, a global investment bank and venture capital firm.

💰 Eric leads the Consumer Subscription Software (CSS) practice, advising high-growth companies on capital raises and acquisitions—recently including AllTrails and Runna.

📊 “If you build a product that consumers truly love, strategics will come calling. It’s that emotional connection that drives outsized outcomes.”

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights: 
[0:00] Opportunities in subscription apps
[7:12] Consumers still pay when the product delivers lasting value
[10:41] What Strava’s acquisition of Runna reveals about building apps that get bought
[17:30] Genuine consumer love over designing for a single acquirer
[19:27] Shifts in discovery forcing app marketers to rethink SEO and acquisition
[28:56] Using AI to move faster, create better products, and deepen moats
[32:47] How loosened restrictions could return profit margins for top apps
[46:43] The next big subscription plays
[52:04] Why Bending Spoons are forcing investors to rethink consumer tech
[57:11] What makes the Bending Spoons model work
[1:00:10] The Secondary market is changing how founders think about app exits
[1:01:41] Trends, exits, and the state of the subscription app ecosystem

On the podcast, I talk with Michael about the blessing and curse of having a brand, why post-purchase is the perfect upsell moment, and why partnerships are hard to pull off but can be well worth the effort.

Top Takeaways:

🌱Growth is Built on Value
Sustainable growth comes from consistently adding value, not just short-term tactics.  Success lies in constantly evolving your product to meet users' needs. By regularly introducing new features and improving the user experience, premium products remain relevant and compelling. That value is continuous, with acquisition and retention working together to drive long-term growth.

🎯 Personalize for Retention
 Different users have different goals, and understanding this is key to retention. Tailor offerings to specific user needs, whether it is job seekers, hobbyists, or niche audiences. By tailoring plans and features to user intent, brands can keep their products relevant. Without this personalization, users may disengage and churn.

📊 Test to Optimize
With hundreds of A/B tests each year, Condé Nast learns what works quickly. Data replaces debate, helping the team iterate faster. The goal is not just to optimize, it is to foster a culture of constant learning and growth.

🔄 Retention Is a Journey
 Churn does not always mean goodbye. Many users return later when their needs change. Offering win-back deals, fresh trials, and adding new value helps bring users back and turn them into long-term subscribers. Retention is a process, not a straight line.

🤖 AI Supports, Not Leads
AI should enhance the user experience, not overshadow it. AI’s role is to solve problems, helping users find content or personalize their experience, while staying behind the scenes. The real value is in solving the user’s needs, not in the technology itself.

About Michael Ribero: 

👨‍💻 SVP, Global Consumer Revenue at Condé Nast.

📈 Michael leads the subscription and growth strategies for some of the world’s most iconic media brands, including Vogue, GQ, The New Yorker, and Wired. He focuses on optimizing user engagement, experimenting with monetization strategies, and evolving the digital experiences that drive both free and paid subscriptions.

💡 "We’ve learned that true growth comes from continually adding value. Our approach isn’t just about scaling; it’s about providing lasting benefits that evolve with our users’ needs."

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Why launching a premium tier isn’t always the right move
[2:51] Competing with AI-native upstarts and influencer content
[5:39] Media's frenemy dynamic with platforms like Meta
[8:25] Balancing free vs. paid content without eroding brand trust
[11:46] How to recover from a failed paywall experiment
[13:23] What bundling and post-purchase upsells look like at Condé Nast
[19:41] Real-world LTV boosts from zero-CAC upsell moments
[22:30] Lessons from low-priced tiers like the Washington Post’s Starter Pack
[26:07] Tiering vs. focus: when a premium plan is actually a distraction

On the podcast I talk with Josh about red flags that tank app valuations, why subscription-only apps are leaving money on the table, and how bootstrapped founders are cashing out for millions in months, not years.

Top Takeaways:

🎯 Build to sell, but build smart
Flipping an app in under a year is still possible, but the skill that matters most now is marketing. With AI lowering the barrier to development, distribution has become the real differentiator. Founders who master organic channels, community, and creator-driven marketing are the ones who land meaningful exits.

💰 Predictability drives value
Buyers pay more for revenue they can trust. Apps built on recurring subscriptions with strong retention and low churn are far more attractive than those relying on ads or one-time purchases. Predictable cash flow isn’t just safer, it’s worth a higher multiple.

🚩 Short-term tricks destroy long-term value
Artificially inflating numbers before a sale, such as pushing lifetime deals to boost revenue, can quickly kill a deal. Serious acquirers look for sustainable metrics, not spikes. Authentic growth, honest reporting, and healthy retention are the hallmarks of a business built to last.

🔄 Fewer and deeper bets
The age-old quality-over-quantity principle still holds. After buying nearly a hundred small apps early on, BlueThrone learned that broad portfolios don’t win. Their new playbook focuses on a handful of apps with real product-market fit, strong organic traction, and teams ready to scale into category leaders.

💡 Hybrid monetization unlocks new growth
Borrowing tactics from gaming, like consumables, day passes, and rewarded ads, helps subscription apps reach more users and capture more value. These models make spending feel flexible and fair, turning a single price point into an entire revenue spectrum.

About Josh Peleg:  

📈 Head of Business Development and M&A at BlueThrone, one of the world’s leading app acquirers.

💡 Josh helps founders scale and exit their apps, guiding deals that range from six to eight figures.

🎮 Before joining BlueThrone, he led mergers and acquisitions in the mobile gaming industry, giving him a front-row view of how distribution and monetization strategies evolve.

🗣 “The best apps today aren’t just great products—they’re great stories. Marketing and distribution are what turn a good idea into a real business.”

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Lesson learned from BlueThrone’s early “go-wide” strategy 

[6:20]Why founders have to be more than great builders 

[8:19] The pieces that lead to higher valuations

[12:37]Five signals that can kill a deal

[18:12] When (and when not) to raise

[24:33] Shifting from a broad portfolio to a few deep bets 

[33:15] The future of monetization

[45:07]What drives the best exits in today’s acquisition market

[52:00] How founders can position themselves for life-changing exits 

On the podcast we talk with Mathias about running Subway Surfers' marketing machine on salaries, not ad spend, leaving money on the table to protect player experience, and why more apps should try rewarded ads, season passes, and other tactics from gaming.

Top Takeaways:

🎨 Viral flywheels can out-perform massive paid campaigns

Relying on salaries instead of ad budgets, a lean team can ship constant creative that rides cultural waves. Most experiments flop quietly, but the occasional viral hit fuels downloads across platforms and even influences app store featuring. The lesson: volume, autonomy, and cultural fluency can rival—or surpass—big-spend marketing.

🛡️ Protecting user experience is a growth strategy

It’s tempting to squeeze harder on monetization, but avoiding overly aggressive tactics can pay off longer-term. By keeping the core product endlessly playable and resisting short-term optimization, teams can build evergreen engagement that compounds for over a decade. Sometimes the best ROI comes from not chasing every last dollar.

🎁 Rewarded ads expand who you can monetize

Giving users the choice to watch ads in exchange for perks isn’t just a gaming trick—it’s a fairness mechanism. It allows players in tier-two and tier-three markets, who may never subscribe, to still contribute value. Apps beyond gaming can borrow this playbook to reach broader audiences without alienating core users.

⏱️ Season passes deliver transparency and trust

Unlike recurring subscriptions, passes offer clear value over a fixed time window: pay once, play (or use) for the season. This structure avoids the “forgotten subscription” resentment while still generating meaningful revenue. It’s a model that translates well to utilities and lifestyle apps where usage is bursty or seasonal.

🤝 Collaborations multiply reach without heavy spend

Crossovers between brands or products can reactivate lapsed users and bring in new audiences, even when no money changes hands. Like the music industry learned with features, one plus one can equal three when two strong IPs join forces. Subscription apps in adjacent niches can create the same effect.

About Mathias Gredal Nørvig: 

👨‍💻 CEO of SYBO, the company behind the smash hit mobile game Subway Surfers.

📈 Mathias and the small-but-mighty SYBO content marketing team have built a freemium mobile app with serious staying power.

💡“How do we entertain as many players as possible with something as available as possible, but also allow those who want to spend … money to progress or get more content to do so — without the expense of ruining the fun for the majority?”

👋 LinkedIn 

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Episode Highlights: 

[1:01] Staying power: How a subscription app like Subway Surfers achieves longevity with over 4.5 billion downloads.

[4:30] Surfing the waves:How the Subway Surfers in-house creative marketing team creates and rides virality waves.

[8:50] The content flywheel: How subscription apps can become self-sustaining with organic marketing.

[16:27] Cash flow: What subscription apps can learn from the mobile gaming industry about alternative monetization strategies.

[19:51] Paying the piper: How to balance a good user experience with when and how to require payment.

[25:30] A watchful eye: The challenges of preserving brand reputation and protecting underage users in a freemium app that serves ads.

[28:48] Teaming up: Avoiding cannibalization and partnering with competitors in the free-to-play space.

[41:17] Day pass: How apps can experiment with consumables, day passes, and season passes to unlock new revenue opportunities.

On the podcast we talk with Ora about LinkedIn’s value-driven growth philosophy, how they personalize experiences and plan offerings based on user intent, and the complexity of running over a thousand experiments a year.

Top Takeaways:

🌱 Growth follows value

The surest path to long-term growth is adding features and benefits that genuinely help people achieve their goals. Growth tactics may bring a spike, but sustainable revenue comes from a product that keeps evolving so members find new reasons to return. When value creation is continuous, acquisition and retention become self-reinforcing.

🎯 Personalize by intent

Not all users are looking for the same outcome. Job seekers, small business owners, and learners need different experiences. Matching plans, features, and paywalls to their specific intent—whether expressed directly or inferred from behavior—makes the product feel relevant and worth paying for. The alternative is irrelevance, which guarantees churn.

📊 Test like a scientist

Scaling experimentation changes the culture: debates give way to data. By running over a thousand tests a year, teams learn faster, spot what actually resonates, and avoid relying on intuition alone. The goal isn’t just to optimize pricing or layouts—it’s to build a habit of constant learning that compounds into growth.

🔄 Retention isn’t linear

Churn doesn’t always mean goodbye. Many users return months or years later when their needs change—“boomerang” behavior that can become a meaningful revenue stream. Win-back offers, refreshed trials, and simply continuing to add new value all help capture these returning customers and turn them into long-term loyalists.

🤖 AI is a tool, not the story

Artificial intelligence should quietly power better outcomes, not become the headline. Helping users write a stronger profile, find the right lead, or save time drafting a job description creates tangible value. Positioning AI as a behind-the-scenes helper keeps the focus where it belongs: solving the user’s problem.

About Ora Levit:
 

👨‍💻 Vice President of Product Management at LinkedIn.

📈 Ora manages LinkedIn’s billion-dollar online subscription businesses, growing both the free weekly active user base and adding value for LinkedIn Premium subscribers.

💡“Our offering changes over time, and as I mentioned, we believe in value-driven growth. We add a lot of value. And so the Premium that you've seen if you subscribed two years ago is not the Premium of today. It's a very different product, and I want you to try it out.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] Value add:How LinkedIn centers value-driven growth in their product development.

[8:40] The long game: The importance of optimizing for and measuring long-term revenue.

[9:57] Pay to play: Where to draw the line between free and paid features.

[17:59] Put it to the test: Ora and her team prioritize A/B testing and user feedback over internal debates about feature ideas.

[23:32] Take it personally: The role of AI and LLMs in personalizing in-app experiences.

[27:47] Here today (and tomorrow): Strategies for retaining users in the long term and winning back churned users.

[34:52] The AI touch: LinkedIn’s philosophy on incorporating AI features to add value to their product.

[39:44] Two (or three) for one: Leveraging strategic partnerships to add bundled perks to a premium subscription offering.

[41:43] Pulse check:Monitoring earnings calls, reports, books, and podcasts to stay in step with the current state of the subscription app industry.

On the podcast I talk with Eric about how measurement dysfunction paralyzes growth, why diversifying channels for the sake of diversification actually hurts performance, and the futility of trying to interpret why ads win.

Top Takeaways:

📊 Broken measurement kills growth

The biggest pitfall isn’t creative or channel choice—it’s disorganized measurement. When finance, product, and UA each use different models, growth stalls. The fix isn’t another dashboard; it’s alignment. Build one coherent, incrementality-aware framework everyone trusts, with clear definitions of success and outputs that meet each team’s needs.

🌊 Don’t diversify just to diversify

Spreading budget across more channels feels safer but often reduces performance after integration, creative, and reporting overhead. Start with a waterfall method: max out your primary channel until ROAS hits your threshold, then move to the next. Diversify for scale or cross-channel effects—not optics.

🎲 Stop asking why an ad worked

Winners often defy tidy explanations. Treat individual ad outcomes as stochastic and largely uninterpretable. Put your energy into the system: feed diverse concepts, automate prospecting/synthesis, and measure whether your process is increasing the rate of wins over time. Learn from inputs and process—not post-hoc stories about outputs.

⚡ Ship speed over certainty early

You won’t have fully baked LTV or incrementality in week one. Push spend methodically: kill obvious losers immediately, let plausible winners age, track cohort ROAS at day-7/30/60, and widen budgets as curves support it. Iterative frontier-pushing beats premature “terminal LTV” guesswork.

🧩 Engineer better signals

Algorithms optimize to the signals you send. Create intentional, high-intent events (light “hurdles” that correlate with LTV) and send those back to platforms. Better signals shift spend toward durable users and compound efficiency, especially as automation on major platforms accelerates.

About Eric Seufert:

👨‍💻 Quantitative marketer, media strategist, investor, and author.

📈 Eric shares expert advice on the Mobile Dev Memo blog and is an investor at Heracles Capital.

💡 “The way I approach creative testing is trying to identify losers as quickly as possible. The winners take time to prove out, but the losers are pretty quick to prove out.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights: 

[1:00] Intelligent design:How to effectively incorporate AI into your business strategy.

[4:52] I, Robot: Machine learning =/= generative AI.

[8:36] AI Pitfalls: AI works best for automating tasks and coming up with ideas — not generating brilliant creative assets.

[17:29] Predictive AI: Brand-specific, full-fidelity video ads generated by AI could be a reality within 18 months.

[33:25] Risky business:How to effectively diversify across advertising channels to optimize ROAS-adjusted spend.

[37:43] Measure of success:Above all, make sure your measurement system is coherent and has cross-team alignment.

[42:04] Tortoise vs. hare: To balance speed and efficiency, identify your ad “losers” as quickly as possible.

[44:43] Missed opportunity: Good marketing comes down to embracing some uncertainty and minimizing the rest.

[49:23] Human touch: Why generative AI creative tools probably aren’t a worthwhile investment right now.

On the podcast I talk with Thomas about using signal engineering to optimize ad spend, how AI is changing creative testing, and why most people should avoid app2web… for now.

Top Takeaways:

🧠 The biggest AI opportunity in ads is smarter analysis, not faster production

AI is now good enough to produce ad-quality video and variants at scale — but that’s where 95% of the industry focus stops. The underused frontier is AI for analysis: spotting winning hooks, predicting performance, and even pre-testing creatives with “AI humans” before spend. The teams that combine rapid AI production with AI-driven analysis can iterate faster and scale what works more reliably.

🔍 Signal engineering starts with fixing broken data

If the events you send to ad networks are inaccurate or poorly mapped, you’re sabotaging the algorithms. First step: make sure event counts match internal analytics within ~5–10% (not 30–50%). Then move from “normal” to “sophisticated” by filtering for quality — for example, optimizing to high-LTV trial signups instead of all trials — and sending value-adjusted revenue that reflects predicted LTV, not just day-one spend.

⚖️ Balance exploitation of winners with exploration of new concepts

When a creative crushes it, it’s tempting to flood your account with variations. But over-reliance on a single concept speeds fatigue and leaves you exposed when performance drops. Keep iterating on winners and testing new hooks in parallel — especially on fast-moving platforms like TikTok, where trends expire in weeks.

🌐 App-to-web works best for big brands with deep resources

Moving checkout to the web can bypass app store fees, but it’s a high-commitment experiment. Success usually requires brand trust, team bandwidth, and a well-tested flow — often with different plan structures than in-app. For most smaller teams, the opportunity cost outweighs the benefit. “Saying no to good ideas” is often the smarter prioritization.

💳 Hybrid monetization is powerful, but not plug-and-play

Combining subscriptions with one-time or usage-based purchases can capture more revenue from different segments — especially for AI-powered apps with real compute costs. But designing it to avoid cannibalizing subscriptions is complex. Treat hybrid as a later-stage lever: exhaust easier wins in pricing, packaging, and paywall optimization first, then experiment, possibly starting with Android or non-US markets. 

About Thomas Petit: 

👨‍💻 Independent app growth consultant helping subscription apps like Lingokids, Deezer, and Mojo.

📈 Thomas is passionate about helping subscription apps optimize their ad spend and increase ROI through smarter testing.

💡 “The whole idea of signal engineering and optimization of the data that you're sending back is: send the network something better, and they're gonna do a better job. They are doing a better job — it's you who are not doing yours.”

👋  LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
 

[1:21] Testing smarter: How AI may be changing the game for testing ads.

[13:09] Untangling the web:App-to-web can work for some, but it’s not a slam dunk.

[21:19] Hedge your bets: The benefits of moving away from subscription-only and embracing hybrid monetization strategies.

[26:50] Going global: When and why to consider experimenting with hybrid monetization outside the US.

[31:15] Signal vs. noise: The signal engineering framework for sending the most valuable user interaction data to ad platforms.

[44:47] Multi-platform: Optimizing your data and event mapping for multiple ad networks.

[53:01] Low-hanging fruit: Scoring easy wins with signal engineering.

[1:08:04] Hands-off: Why ad networks likely won’t (and maybe shouldn’t?) implement built-in signal engineering tools for app marketers.

[1:14:05] Going deep: Advanced signal engineering techniques.

[1:26:09] Volume vs. quality:Why sending fewer events to ad networks may actually yield better results.

On the podcast I talk with Lucy and Nicole about how customer-driven iteration led Zumba from VHS tapes in 2001 to launching an app in 2024, their app2web experiments that boosted LTV by 17%, and how they are able to charge for content when countless Zumba classes are available for free on YouTube.

Top Takeaways:

🗣️ Listening has driven 24 years of product evolution

Every Zumba breakthrough — from instructor certifications born out of VHS buyer calls, to an app tailored for shy beginners — came directly from customer insights. The roadmap is data-led, not intuition-driven, ensuring they're always building what users genuinely want.

🎯 Subscribers pay for structured programs, not endless content

Zumba realized users were overwhelmed by free YouTube videos. By creating curated, goal-oriented programs, subscribers now watch twice as many videos and retention doubled. People will pay for guidance and curation — not just more content.

🚀 Your growth ceiling depends on beginner retention

With 70% of new users identifying as beginners, Zumba redesigned onboarding and UX to quickly move them toward completing three classes. Annual-plan signups reached 60%, and churn dropped dramatically. Early milestones for beginners unlock long-term growth.

🌐 Web checkout can lower conversion yet raise revenue

Zumba shifted paywall taps to a simplified web checkout with Apple Pay and Google Pay. Immediate conversions dropped 25%, but higher annual plans, better retention, and no store fees drove a 17% lift in LTV. Optimize for long-term value, not just instant conversions.

🔁 Speed of iteration beats legacy processes every time

Zumba’s lean, agile team tests and pivots relentlessly — from paywall pricing to removing unsuccessful features. Daily checks in Mixpanel dictate what scales or what’s cut. Moving quickly and iterating beats established practices and keeps growth steady.

About Nicole Page & Lucy Levy:

📱 Nicole Page is Senior Product Manager at Zumba, leading app development with a focus on user research and fast iteration. From onboarding experiments to web-first paywalls, she brings a data-driven mindset to every launch.

💡 “Every launch is a hypothesis we’re testing, and we’re never afraid to pivot if the numbers tell us to.”

👋 Nicole

🚀 Lucy Levy is Chief Consumer Officer at Zumba, guiding the brand from VHS to app, boosting LTV 17% along the way with innovative strategies and beginner-focused design.

🌍 Together, they’re modernizing Zumba’s global community.

👋 Lucy

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Episode Highlights:

[00:02:44] From VHS to app store: How three Albertos turned dance fitness into a global brand.

[00:06:26] Community is the product: Why Zumba built its business around instructors, not just workouts.

[00:11:01] Research at scale: How hundreds of interviews revealed why “The Shy Beginner” is their most important user.

[00:14:30] Better churn than never: Why people leaving the app for live classes still counts as a win.

[00:15:54] Can’t compete with free? Yes you can: The Zumba app’s curated programs outperform YouTube.

[00:17:25] Double the value: Adding structured programs led to twice the content engagement and better retention.

[00:20:04] Cracking community: Why their first chat-based social feature failed and what they’re planning next.

[00:22:56] Test everything: Zumba’s app team operates with a growth mindset inside a 24-year-old company.

[00:25:22] Data before breakfast: Why daily Mixpanel check-ins drive fast iteration and culture change.

[00:26:09] App-to-web win: How a 25% drop in conversion still led to a 17% lift in LTV.

[00:30:19] Checkout optimization: Using Stripe, Apple Pay, and Google Pay to simplify the paywall experience.

[00:35:07] Push, don’t annoy: The team’s smart notification timing strategy based on user habits.

[00:38:44] Beginner, please: 75% of users identify as new to fitness, so the app is built just for them.

[00:39:01] Add friction, raise conversion: How a longer onboarding flow improved paywall success.

[00:40:51] One class to hook them: Why Zumba offers just one free class before locking the app.

[00:43:25] Three’s the magic number: Users who complete three classes are much more likely to stick.

[00:44:56] No trial, no problem: Ditching the monthly trial increased upfront revenue and annual plan adoption.

On the podcast I talk with John about the fascinating 40-year history of Apple’s developer relations, how almost going bankrupt in the 1990s shaped today’s control-focused approach, and why we might need an ‘App Store 3.0’ reset.

Top Takeaways:

🕹️ The 1980s: Apple’s developer DNA was born
 Apple’s earliest wins came from nurturing third-party developers, even spinning off its own apps to avoid competing with outsiders.

💸 Microsoft saved Apple (literally)
 Apple’s near-bankruptcy in the ’90s made them both humble and wary—forever shaping how they deal with developers and competition.

🍎 From “please build for us” to “we choose you”
 WWDC 2008 saw Apple begging for apps and evangelist emails on slides; today, it’s the other way around.

🖥️ The “Delicious Era” fueled iPhone success
 Mac indie devs (Panic, Delicious Monster, Bare Bones) built a design-obsessed, passionate community—setting the stage for the iPhone App Store boom.

🚪 App Store 1.0: A new world for indies
 For the first time, solo developers could launch businesses from home. No server costs, no payments hassle—just build, submit, and sell.

🏦 Apple’s rules got stricter as the App Store grew
 As the App Store became a services giant, the partnership vibe faded. Developers went from partners to “users” of Apple’s marketplace.

📉 App Store math now feels upside down
 Today, indie devs can pay Apple millions, while giants like Meta pay almost nothing. The fee logic and incentives don’t fit 2025.

⏳ The platform needs an “App Store 3.0” reset
 John and David call for a new era: lower fees, clearer rules, and Apple acting as a true platform partner—not just a toll booth.

🔄 Developer enthusiasm is Apple’s long-term moat
 Apple risks becoming a “legacy only” giant if it loses developer goodwill. The most important apps are still built by outsiders.

👥 A generational handoff is coming
 With Apple’s senior leadership nearing retirement, now is the time to set new priorities: empower developers, invest in the ecosystem, and ensure Apple’s platforms stay vibrant for decades to come.

About John Gruber:

🚀 Author of the Daring Fireball blog, host of The Talk Show, and co-creator of Markdown.

🍎 John is a lifelong Apple fan and is passionate about discussing all things iPhone, App Store, and developer relations.

💡 “I feel like Apple is dwelling on the success and the innovation that completely revolutionized the phone industry […] for too long and that they should move on and build something else new.”

👋  Daring Fireball 

Resources: 

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Episode Highlights: 

[0:00]Apple Kremlinology: Why understanding Apple requires a special kind of obsession - and a long memory.

[4:58] Fanboys unite: David shares how his love of Apple led him from audio engineer to App Store developer.

[8:48] Turning point:John’s link to David’s iPhone mileage app in 2008 helped jumpstart his indie career.

[13:37] Joz, Phil, and Eddy: The developer relations and most of the App Store are overseen by three Apple execs who joined in the ‘80s.

[17:01] The crossroads: How Apple’s early decision to unbundle first-party apps in the ‘80s encouraged third-party innovation.

[21:25] Hands off: Why Apple’s decade-long retreat from building software paved the way for a thriving developer ecosystem.

[27:07] Vision parallels: John compares Vision Pro’s slow start to the original Mac - and explains why it doesn’t have to be perfect (yet).

[30:32] Betting on the future: How Apple playing the long-game is their biggest advantage in launching and sustaining new platforms.

[33:55] What comes after the Mac: The ‘90s were filled with failed next-gen Apple platforms - and it almost killed the company.

[36:47]Burned by success: Apple’s trauma from near-bankruptcy shaped their need to control developer relationships.

[41:13] The App Store revolution:Why the 2008 launch of the App Store wasn’t just a business move, it was a turning point for software itself.

[45:07] Developer momentum: How passionate indie devs and Mac software of the 2000s primed the iPhone for success.

[53:46] iPhone jailbreakers: Why the jailbreak community may have pushed Apple to launch the SDK sooner than expected.

[57:39] App Store 2.0: In 2016, Apple dropped some commission rates, opened up subscriptions, and kicked off a new era.

[1:03:03]Time for 3.0: Why David believes the App Store needs another reset - and a shift in mindset.

[1:08:26] Humility and hardware: Steve Jobs’ 1997 apology to a developer at WWDC still echoes - and it’s exactly what developers need to hear in 2025.

[1:13:30]Holding on too tight: How Apple’s fear of losing control is costing them developer goodwill.

[1:26:35] A legacy worth protecting: The iPhone isn’t going anywhere - but without change, Apple could become a legacy business as other platforms take over.

[1:32:06]Red flags on Vision Pro:Why developers aren’t building for Apple’s newest platform - and why that should worry Apple.

[1:39:18] The indie paradox:How small developers pay millions to Apple, while giants like Meta pay almost nothing.
[1:41:39] Fluke of history: Schiller once floated capping App Store revenue at $1B. What if Jobs had said yes?
[1:44:35] The trust gap:Could a more generous App Store policy bring Netflix and others back?

[1:47:08]It’s not too late: Why Apple should proactively change the App Store instead of waiting on regulation.

[1:57:26] Developer vibes: A simpler App Store (with clearer rules and lower fees) could renew trust and drive innovation.

[2:00:29] Bigger than profit: Making great soft...

On the podcast we talk with Eric about his journey from a failed first app to success with his second, the advantage of building for problems people are already talking about, and why he turned down a lucrative acquisition offer to keep building.

Top Takeaways:
🔍 Demand-first discipline wins
Testing for willingness to pay before writing a line of code can spare you five years of false starts. Quick interviews or landing pages that capture real purchase signals reveal genuine demand—an indispensable early litmus test against building in a vacuum.

🔄 Ride existing habits
Rather than convincing users to adopt completely new rituals, plug into behaviors they already practice. When pros were manually measuring holes on satellite maps, the real breakthrough was automating that exact process in real time—sidestepping the steep education curve of a brand-new workflow.

🛑 Bet on a long-term vision, not a quick exit
An early $75K acquisition offer can feel like a no-brainer, but sometimes the best move is to walk away. Turning down a strategic buyout kept ownership in entrepreneurial hands and paved the way for multiples of that valuation through continued iteration and growth.

💼 Treat side projects like businesses
A side hustle stays a hobby until you put real money on the line. Investing $5K in core data and infrastructure forced a shift from tinkering to professional-grade execution—transforming assumptions into data-driven priorities and unlocking deeper product opportunities.

🤝 Niche community fuel sparks growth
No launch strategy outpaces genuine community engagement. By sharing expert tips in specialized forums and social channels before and during build, small audiences morph into early adopters, trial converts, and your most effective brand advocates.

Resources 

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Episode Highlights: 

[3:24] If at first you don’t succeed: How (and when) Eric realized his first app, Undaunted Golf, didn’t have good product-market fit.

[7:28] Try, try again: Why Eric’s second golf app, Shot Pattern, was a success.

[11:21] If you build it: Instead of just launching on the App Store, Eric implemented a content marketing strategy to promote Shot Pattern.

[13:18] Back to black: How Eric’s $5,000 upfront investment in Shot Pattern unlocked some key product differentiators and paid off in a big way.

[20:23] Sell, sell, sell?: After receiving an acquisition offer from a potential buyer, Eric used RevenueCat’s app benchmarks to analyze Shot Pattern’s performance data and determine a rough valuation.

[25:06] Have a little faith: What happened when Eric turned down a $75,000 buyout offer and kept working on Shot Pattern.

[31:25] Video games: How Eric increased Shot Pattern’s annual revenue to $185,000 with video ads.

[37:24] Quit your day job: What would make Eric consider quitting his full-time teaching job to focus on his growing subscription app business.

[39:18] One-man show: Besides partnering with some content creators, Eric does most of the work for Shot Pattern by himself.

[42:25] Success story: How RevenueCat helped Eric launch and grow a successful app business that changed his life.

On the podcast, I talk with Charlie about why Liquid Glass represents a big opportunity for new and existing apps, Apple’s new on-device AI models and their practical limitations, and why the improved App Store Analytics complement rather than replace third-party tools like Appfigures and RevenueCat.

Top Takeaways:

🫧 A style refresh is a growth hack

A major UI overhaul—like Apple’s new “liquid glass” design—creates a once-in-cycle chance to stand out. Apps that ship the new look on day one dominate screenshots, roundup articles, and “App of the Day” slots. It’s free reach: adopt the guidelines early, respect the new hierarchy (avoid stacking glass on glass), and you can siphon users from slower rivals without a bigger ad budget.

🎯 Keywords deserve their own landing pages

You can now pin specific search terms to specific custom product pages. A running-focused page for “5k training,” a cycling page for “bike tracker,” each with its own screenshots and messaging. App Store Connect then breaks analytics down by page, turning guesswork into clear attribution. The result: higher paid-per-download and a shortcut to segment-level A/B testing—no SDK required.

⚡ Tiny, local AI = instant delight

Apple’s on-device foundation models aren’t GPT-4, and that’s fine. Their super-fast, private inference (with a 496-token context window) shines at micro-tasks: sentiment tags, quick text rewrites, lightweight image badges, feature-name suggestions. Treat them as edge helpers, not flagship features. For deep research or long context, hand off to a cloud model. Paired wisely, the mix keeps experiences snappy without sacrificing quality.

🪟 Build like screens will fold

iPadOS 26 finally lets apps run true windows, offload background work, and juggle tasks like a desktop. That’s great for tablets today and a rehearsal for rumored foldables tomorrow. Audit your layouts: do panes resize gracefully? Can a process finish if the user drags your window aside? Investing in this responsiveness now means you’re launch-ready when new form factors arrive.

🔑 Promotions should be measurable

Offer codes used to be subscription-only; now they work for consumables and one-time purchases too. You get up to ten trackable code groups (each with up to a million codes) plus UTM-style links and the expanded App Store analytics to see which podcast promo, TikTok ad, or partner giveaway actually drove revenue. You can finally run seasonal sales or affiliate deals without duct-tape spreadsheets and double down on what moves the needle.

About Charlie Chapman: 

👟Senior Developer Advocate at RevenueCat and indie app creator behind a suite of iOS and macOS tools.

🎯 Charlie blends indie instincts with platform insight, translating Apple’s latest changes into real opportunities for developers.

💡“Don’t build a chatbot around this (on-device models). But if you’re looking for a fast, free way to make your app better in small, thoughtful ways, the new on-device models are really interesting.”

👋 LinkedIn

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On the podcast we talk with Charlie about why React Native has become the default for VC-funded apps, how AI is accelerating development cycles, and why speed of iteration matters more than programming language.

Top Takeaways:

⚡ Instant iteration cycles unlock agility
 React Native and Expo supercharge development by collapsing long build times into mere seconds. With tools like Expo Go enabling live updates, teams can experiment, test, and improve their apps in real time. This instant feedback loop fuels innovation, cuts dev time, and helps startups move faster than ever.

🧱 React Native unifies teams and code
 By choosing a cross-platform stack like React Native, companies can maintain a single codebase for iOS, Android, and web. This unified approach reduces silos, simplifies hiring, and streamlines development. The result is faster feature delivery, consistent UX, and the agility that startups need to scale.

📈 Iteration speed drives growth
 Shipping faster beats obsessing over tech stacks. Companies that iterate quickly can test ideas, learn from real users, and ship improvements faster than competitors. This leads to better products, higher retention, and stronger monetization, giving them a competitive edge in crowded markets.

🔍 Consistency across platforms builds trust
 Users expect apps to work seamlessly, whether they’re on iOS, Android, or the web. React Native helps deliver that uniform experience, aligning with modern product expectations. Consistency reduces friction, boosts trust, and enhances user satisfaction—key drivers of long-term growth.

🤝 AI is the co-pilot, humans set the course
 AI tools like Claude and Copilot are transforming app development, making it faster to scaffold code and build features. But the real breakthroughs come from human oversight—making smart UX decisions, handling platform quirks, and bringing creative problem-solving. Pairing AI speed with human insight unlocks the best of both worlds.

About Charlie Cheever:

🚀Co-Founder and CEO of Expo, a platform that simplifies the development of native apps using React Native, empowering developers to build apps for iOS, Android, and the web with ease.

📱 Charlie is dedicated to empowering developers to create seamless, cross-platform apps with less friction. He’s focused on improving the developer experience by reducing complexity and enabling rapid iteration.

💡“One of the biggest advantages of Expo and React Native is the ability to move fast and iterate quickly without worrying about maintaining separate codebases for each platform.

👋 LinkedIn

Resources: 

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Episode Highlights: 

[1:12] Chain reaction:What React is and how Expo enables developers to use it.

[6:30] Positive feedback loop: How Expo dramatically shortens the product development and iteration cycle.

[12:08] React vs. native: Why React has become the default development framework for modern apps and websites — enabling seamless product iteration across platforms with fewer engineering resources.

[23:13] 1+3+4:How Bluesky was built for three platforms by one developer in just four months.

[28:07] All-in: Why it’s better to build with React from the start instead of developing a native app first and implementing React later.

[35:20] Cause/effect: Do React Native subscription apps monetize better than native apps?

[39:37] Coding smarter: How AI is speeding up development times and pushing developers towards rapid-iteration tools like Expo.

[58:52] Mobile shift: More and more people are consuming software on mobile devices instead of PCs… shouldn’t the app development process align with that shift?

On the podcast I talk with Tim about the importance of trust in web2app funnels, replacing free trials with money-back guarantees, and how they’ve found success with contractors after struggling with in-house marketing hires.

Top Takeaways: 

🔁 Replace trials with trust to attract high-intent users

A 30-day money-back guarantee can outperform traditional free trials—especially in web funnels. Paying upfront sends a stronger signal to ad platforms, helping them optimize for the right users. And when refunds are rare, overall LTV improves. It’s a bet on product confidence and customer intent.

🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Learning apps work better when parents are part of the experience

Apps that require co-use between a parent and child show far better educational outcomes and retention. Research shows kids learn up to 19x more effectively with adult involvement. It’s a smaller market—but a deeper one—if you design for it.

🏗️ Rigid methods can stifle product innovation

Strict adherence to frameworks like Scrum can turn creative engineers into ticket-takers. Giving teams room to rethink and revise—even late in development—yields stronger products. Empower developers as collaborators, not executors.

🌐 Trusted domains outperform in web-to-app conversion

When onboarding flows are moved to the web, conversion often drops—unless users recognize and trust the brand. Memorable, credible domains help users feel confident making purchases off-platform. Trust is the friction reducer.

🧰 Specialized contractors deliver more with less overhead

Instead of building an in-house team of marketing generalists, using seasoned channel experts—paid media, lifecycle, SEO—can deliver faster results with less management. It’s a scalable model for lean teams aiming to punch above their weight.

About Tim Dikun:

🧑‍🏫COO of Teaching.com, a suite of educational apps for children that’s been helping kids learn to read and type for nearly 30 years.

📖 Tim is passionate about building world-class educational tools that leverage both the power of AI and the parent-child connection.

💡“There's a lot of tooling out there for mobile apps that we just can't use because Apple won't let us — because it's a kids’ app. And I get it, it makes sense. It just means we have to get a little creative and find ways to get the information that we're looking for.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights: 

[0:37] Storied history:How Teaching.com found product-market fit in the early days of subscription apps.

[4:41] (A)syncing up:Why Teaching.com disables Slack and Basecamp notifications in their team communications.

[8:12] Ch-ch-ch-changes: Teaching.com’s approach to product development encourages ideation and late-stage changes, rather than sticking to an arbitrary design.

[11:48] Intelligence (artificial and otherwise):Finding the right balance between AI and the human touch in an educational product.

[15:40]Testing the waters:Experimenting with higher prices, money-back guarantees, and annual plans to increase LTV.

[23:03] Context switching: Teaching.com’s experiments with web-to-app resulted in a 50% increase in trial starts and a 30% increase in paid conversions.

[28:35] Upselling: Increasing LTV with downloadable in-app purchases and physical products on Amazon.

[33:02] Land and expand: Increasing the size and LTV of your user base by serving additional customer needs.

[35:34] Kid-friendly:The unique challenges of developing subscription apps for children.

[38:36] Expert advice:Why Teaching.com contracts with marketing channel experts instead of building an in-house marketing team.

On the podcast we talk with Chris about how to do freemium the right way, drafting a customer “Bill of Rights” to guide product decisions, and why blindly following A/B test results can lead to short-term gains but undermine your business long-term.

Top Takeaways:

🧮 Data has limits
Short-term data can lie. When every experiment looks like a win in isolation, it’s easy to miss the slow erosion of trust happening in the background. Real harm often builds quietly and cumulatively — too subtle for A/B tests to detect, and too long-term for analytics dashboards to surface.

🧊 Freemium is a strategy, not a stepping stone
Free users aren’t just a growth channel — they’re often the foundation of retention, virality, and brand. The key is not just giving something away, but building genuine value into the free tier while monetizing a clear, meaningful upgrade. Trying to monetize too early or too aggressively risks killing long-term compounding benefits.

🚪 Fake doors, real insights
Not every test needs statistical significance. Especially in the early stages of validation, it’s better to move fast, fake the backend, and just see what people click. When the goal is to gauge interest, not measure retention, scrappy beats precise.

🛑 Dark patterns don’t scale
Stacking minor friction points, misleading CTAs, or unclear pricing might bump conversions — but it quietly breaks trust. Even if the data looks fine, something more critical is breaking: your brand. When users stop recommending you, you’ll realize those small wins were expensive.

📐 Principles over process
When companies scale, the instinct is to build more process. But sometimes the best way to maintain speed and quality is through shared principles. A clear set of product values — what won’t be touched, how users are treated — provides clarity, autonomy, and momentum across teams.

About Chris Hulls:

👪Founder and CEO of Life360, the family safety platform used by over 80 million active users worldwide.

🔒 Chris is passionate about building products that offer real daily utility while protecting user trust, focusing on long-term value instead of short-term growth hacks.

💡“The core has to give real value to our customers, not kind of fake value. Like real, real value forever for free, period.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights: 

[1:33] A niche market:How the Life360 team found success by building an app in an under-served vertical.

[7:55]Free vs. paid: Striking the right balance of free versus paid features in a freemium app.

[11:37] A strong constitution: Why Chris and the Life360 team wrote a customer “Bill of Rights.”

[15:59] Data-driven:Why you may not always need to run tests on a large percentage of your users to get helpful results.

[22:17] Value ad(d): Creating helpful — not annoying — user experiences in ads and brand deals.

[29:12] Moving target: User privacy and the ethics of selling users’ raw versus de-identified versus aggregated data.

[38:31] The long haul: How to stay energized and excited working on the same product for multiple years.

[44:28] Unbreakable: Exercising caution with mission-critical features to maintain user trust.

[53:35] Future-proof: How Life360 is growing and expanding in 2025 and beyond.

On the podcast, I talk with Daphne about why skipping user interviews is costing you growth, how to bring your product’s ‘aha moment’ forward into your marketing, and why your assumptions about why people use your app might be wrong.
Top Takeaways:

🎯 Your app is a means to an end

Users don’t care about how many features you have — they care about achieving something in their lives. Apps that focus on the user’s goal, rather than their own functionality, become essential. Instead of selling the tool, sell the transformation: what life looks like after the user succeeds.

🧠 Talking to users beats guessing
Surveys are useful, but user interviews and review mining are goldmines for finding the “why” behind behavior. Understanding what users were doing before your app, how they discovered you, and what outcome they hoped for leads to sharper messaging, better onboarding, and stronger products.

💡 Emotions drive retention

Functional goals matter, but emotional and social motivations are often what bring people back. Whether it’s the satisfaction of consistency, the joy of social encouragement, or the comfort of belonging to a community, understanding these deeper drivers can differentiate apps and supercharge retention.

🚧 Activation is about showing early progress

The faster users feel they’re moving toward success, the more likely they are to stick around. That first “win” doesn’t have to be a full result — even completing onboarding, customizing a plan, or getting a small early insight can be enough to hook users into a habit loop.

📈 Monetization follows real value

Users are willing to pay more when they perceive clear, life-improving value. Understanding the different jobs users are hiring your app to do can unlock smarter pricing, better feature tiers, and easier upsells. The closer you align pricing with meaningful outcomes, the more sustainable your growth.

About Daphe Tideman:

📈 Freelance growth advisor and consultant helping subscription app businesses navigate various growth challenges.

💼 Daphne helps startups improve their activation, retention, and monetization strategies with the jobs-to-be-done framework.

💡 “So many apps are constantly talking about, ‘we have this feature, that feature…’ — but that's not why people use your app.”

👋  Website

Resources:

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Episode Highlights:

[0:48] Job done:How the jobs-to-be-done framework should frame your product development.

[3:04] Survey says: Why the most valuable feedback about your app comes from your most engaged users.

[7:06] Emotional impact:Why appealing to users’ emotional and social needs is a better driver of conversions and retention than describing app features.

[11:07] Good communication:How the jobs-to-be-done framework can (and should) influence your app messaging strategy.

[16:16] Personal touch: Developing user personas, creating individualized onboarding experiences, and testing ad copy in Meta.
[35:56] Removing blockers: Why the up-front cost and time commitment of user interviews can save you money in the long term.
[43:25] Active users: How understanding your users’ jobs to be done can influence your activation, re-activation, and retention strategies.
[54:55] Show me the money: Identifying the jobs-to-be-done of high-paying users can help you improve user LTV and develop appropriate pricing packages.

On the podcast, I talk with Dan about estimating the ROI of product changes before building them, calculating your subscription app's growth ceiling, and why you shouldn’t make assumptions about what is and isn’t working in other apps.

Top Takeaways:

💸 ROI-first thinking helps teams prioritize what actually moves the needle
Every project has a cost - whether or not you calculate it. Estimating the ROI of a sprint, even with rough assumptions, can reveal when you’re investing $50K of dev time into a feature with minimal upside. It’s not about forecasting with precision, it’s about using basic math to avoid chasing ideas that won’t pay off.

⚾ Big swings take more than one try
Launching a major feature is rarely a one-and-done success. The biggest wins often come after multiple iterations - refining the UX, testing variations, learning from early data. Too many teams ship once and move on. But if there are signs of life, sticking with it for a few rounds is often where the real gains are made.

⏳ Churn math reveals the ceiling on your growth
If you’re adding 500 users per month and churn is 10%, your max subscriber base is 5,000. It’s simple math, but easy to overlook when topline numbers are growing. Looking at cohorts and long-term retention curves helps you spot when you’re approaching that ceiling - and whether you’re building a durable business or just replacing churned users.

🧵 Small UX improvements can beat big features
Rewriting confusing checkout error messages took just two days and lifted revenue by 1%. Polishing key flows like onboarding or paywall views often delivers a better return than shipping something new. If every user hits a flow, making it smoother can have an outsized impact on conversion and retention.

🚀 The fastest team wins, not the most secretive
Worried someone will copy your idea? Don’t be. The teams that win are the ones who move faster, not the ones who keep ideas hidden. Speed matters more than secrecy. Whether you’re validating a viral feature with TikTok mockups or running a rough A/B test, moving quickly lets you learn, adjust, and stay ahead.

About Dan Layfield: 

✍️Founder of Subscription Index, a blog that breaks down the strategy, math, and real-world lessons behind successful subscription products.

🧠 Dan helps startups grow revenue by optimizing retention, reducing churn, and making smarter product bets rooted in ROI.

💡“Your company will not be profitable ever if the output of your sprints doesn’t exceed the cost of your sprints.”

👋 LinkedIn

Resources:

The Hidden Math of Churn: Why You Can’t Scale Past $1M — Subscription Index blog post

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Episode Highlights:

[1:03] Over/under — The importance of estimating the ROI of your product development efforts in advance.

[6:39] Making a splash: The pros and cons of building features in order to get attention on social media or in the press.

[12:49] Sweat the small stuff: Why fixing “small” issues with your user experience can lead to big payoffs.

[19:41] Hitting a ceiling: How to calculate your company’s maximum subscriber base based on your monthly new users and churn rate.

[24:03] The long game: Accounting for long-term users (“locals”) versus short-term users (“tourists”) in your growth ceiling estimates.

[32:11] Good use: How the degree of product-market fit for your app affects your churn rate.

[37:40] User activation: Mitigating churn by providing a great onboarding experience and giving users early wins.

[39:21] Money talks: Why auditing your pricing tiers and payment processing systems can significantly bolster your bottom line.

On the podcast, I talk with Ajay about the fresh opportunities AI is creating for app developers, how they built a cost-effective TikTok growth engine, and why being forced to monetize helped improve their product decisions.

Top Takeaways:
🤖 New tech, new apps – AI isn’t just making apps smarter. It’s enabling new categories entirely.
Apps built around real-time interaction, emotional context, and personalized content wouldn’t have been possible just a year ago. That means product-market fit can emerge in spaces that didn’t even exist before.

🎨 Design spreads – Great visuals are for distribution, not just decoration.
Memorable characters, animations, or interfaces can make your app instantly recognizable in screenshots, social videos, or App Store listings. Strong creative amplifies word-of-mouth.

💸 Monetization pushes clarity – Charging early forces your product to stand up on its own.
When you’re paying for AI infrastructure, you can’t wait to figure out value. Monetizing quickly reveals which users are getting enough utility to stick around and where the gaps are in your experience.

📈 TikTok still works – For the right product, UGC beats polish.
Test fast, post often, and watch what takes off. Lo-fi creator content can outperform paid campaigns, especially if your app is visual and easy to explain. One viral post can change your growth curve overnight.

🧠 Voice AI is tough to fake – Real conversation needs more than an API call.
Delivering a fast, natural back-and-forth requires layered systems: memory lookup, tone control, real-time rendering, and low-latency streaming. It’s a technical challenge and a competitive moat.

About Ajay Mehta:

👽Co-Founder of Portola, the creators of Tolan—an AI companion app that offers personalized, engaging, and fun experiences.

📈 Ajay is passionate about AI’s potential to revolutionize consumer apps, focusing on building emotionally resonant, interactive experiences. 

💡“Something that AI really allows you to do is make a consumer experience that just feels like there is totally something on the other side that knows you, understands you.”

👋 LinkedInand Twitter

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Episode Highlights:

[1:10] Origin story: How Ajay and the Portola team developed the AI alien buddy app, Tolan.

[7:38] Cash flow: Why the Tolan team secured venture funding instead of bootstrapping.
[11:36] I, Robot:How AI is changing the app landscape and why AI companion apps are especially promising.
[16:36] Cost/Benefit: The costs associated with running an AI app forced Tolan to monetize early (but that wasn’t a bad thing).
[21:17] Onboarding excellence: How Tolan’s onboarding experience fosters deep personalization and long-term retention.
[28:08] Going viral: Why an effective TikTok marketing strategy can dramatically lower your cost per acquisition.
[39:34] A league of their own:Why competition is relatively low (for now) for AI companion apps.
[47:39] Race to the top:Raising venture capital and using the upfront cash infusion to iterate and beat out the competition (à la Duolingo).
[51:18] Tolan 2 (The Sequel): AI engines have the potential to be spun off into multiple app businesses.

On the podcast we discuss how AI is changing both what apps do and how they’re built, the relationship between price and retention, and why React Native apps monetize better than native.

Check out RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps 2025 report here: https://revenuecat.com/report

Top Takeaways:

📊 AI apps: Higher revenue per user, but differentiation is key

AI-powered apps don’t convert users at a higher rate, but they earn more per subscriber. People are willing to pay for AI-enhanced features, but success depends on offering real value - simply wrapping a chatbot isn’t enough. The best-performing AI apps focus on unique, high-value use cases.

💰 Hybrid monetization is gaining momentum

More apps are mixing revenue models—offering subscriptions, consumables, and lifetime purchases to appeal to different types of buyers. AI-powered apps, in particular, are finding success with credit-based systems that let heavy users pay more without forcing everyone onto a subscription.

⚡ Most subscription churn happens in the first month—act fast

A huge percentage of cancellations happen right after the first charge. Users need to feel the value of your app immediately, or they’ll turn off auto-renew. Strong onboarding, personalized engagement, and proactive retention strategies make all the difference.

⏳ 80% of trial starts happen on day one - don’t bury your paywall

Users decide quickly. The vast majority of free trials begin the first time someone opens the app, and if they don’t start one then, they likely never will. A clear, compelling paywall in onboarding is essential to maximizing conversions.

📉 Lower prices mean higher retention

Apps with lower subscription prices retain users at significantly higher rates. High-ticket subscriptions can work if the value is obvious, but in many cases, a lower price makes the renewal decision much easier. If churn is a problem, pricing strategy should be one of the first things to review.

About Jacob Eiting:

👨‍💻Founder & CEO of RevenueCat, the platform powering in-app subscriptions for thousands of apps.

🎯 Jacob helps app developers navigate pricing, retention, and monetization strategies to build sustainable businesses.

💡“If your differentiation is community, if your differentiation is distribution, like you have some unique angle, you’re serving a niche, and you want to be on both platforms, React is probably a really good place to start today.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:

[1:10] The power of AI: AI apps don’t convert users at a higher rate, but they do generate more revenue per user.
[12:28]Battle of the app stores: The App Store generates more money than the Play Store because there are more iOS users (not because Android users pay less).

[18:20] Hybrid vs native: A wider range of development frameworks is lowering the barrier to entry for app developers.

[24:12] Downward slide: Retention rates are declining year over year (but that’s to be expected).

[26:51] Failure to launch?:One out of every 20 apps makes more than $9,000/month one year after launching.

[34:37] Diversifying revenue: More apps are experimenting with hybrid monetization strategies, combining monthly subscriptions with consumables and lifetime subscriptions.

[39:53] Press start: 80% of free trials start the day users first open the app.

[42:13] End of the line:Cancellations of annual subscriptions happen most commonly in the first and last month.

[45:12] The price isn’t right: Lower-priced apps retain users better than higher-priced apps.

[54:20] Last touch: Active renewal rates are highest for annual subscriptions and lowest for weekly subscriptions.

This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: top strategies for paywall optimization, how storytelling during onboarding impacts conversions, and why framing the user journey leading to the paywall is more critical than the paywall itself.

Top Takeaways:

🔐 Your paywall is only as good as the story leading up to it

A well-placed paywall won’t convert if users aren’t primed to see value. Guide users with a clear onboarding flow that tells a story, setting expectations and building excitement before they reach the paywall. Strong hooks, a compelling introduction, and a high-value moment just before the paywall can significantly increase conversions.

💰Use loss aversion to reinforce premium value

Encourage users to engage with premium features before showing the paywall. By having them set up key features or preferences first, you create a sense of ownership - so when they hit the paywall, rejecting the offer feels like losing access to something they’ve already invested in. This approach taps into sunk cost fallacy to boost conversions.

📱Test multi-screen paywalls for better engagement

Instead of cramming all your selling points into a single paywall, break them up into multiple screens. Showing benefits, pricing, and feature comparisons step by step can increase trial opt-ins - Mimo saw a 60% lift using this method. This also blurs the line between onboarding and monetization, giving users more time to absorb the value of upgrading.

About Sylvain Gauchet:

🌐 Director of Revenue Strategy, US at Babbel, specializing in mobile growth, app marketing, and revenue optimization for a leading language learning platform.

🛠️ Sylvain brings deep expertise in crafting data-driven growth strategies, leveraging mobile marketing, app store optimization, and curated insights to drive customer acquisition and retention. He is also the creator of GrowthGems.co, a newsletter for growth practitioners.

💡 "It's not just about optimizing the paywall—it's about the entire journey leading up to it. The story you tell through onboarding and the context you create before the paywall are what truly drive conversions. Without that, even the best-designed paywall won't perform as well as it could."

👋 Connect with Sylvain on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: The state of major acquisition channels in 2025, how improved measurement is boosting confidence in ad spend, and why Reddit might be your next top-performing user acquisition channel.

Top Takeaways:

📡 Signal recovery is improving ad efficiency

iOS signal loss made UA harder, but advanced self-attributing networks (SRNs) on TikTok, Meta, and Snapchat are restoring key data points. Apple Search Ads now supports view-through attribution, helping capture conversions that might have been missed.

🌐 Web-to-app funnels create new acquisition opportunities

More apps are using landing pages and web subscriptions to capture high-intent users before directing them to the app. Meta and Google Ads support these flows, allowing apps to bypass platform fees and test more flexible pricing strategies.

🔍Reddit and alternative channels are gaining traction

Reddit is investing in app install campaigns, making it an overlooked but promising UA channel - especially for niche communities. AppsFlyer data shows growing spend across multiple platforms, as confidence in attribution continues to improve.

About Shane Ly:

📱 Solutions Architect at AppsFlyer, specializing in mobile attribution and user acquisition strategies for subscription apps.

📈 Shane helps companies make sense of their ad spend, optimize attribution across channels like Meta, Google, TikTok, and Reddit, and turn better data into smarter marketing decisions.

💡 "Having a good pipeline for how to notify that a subscription was actually done back into this measurement partner—reason for that is we need to effectively know where did that user come from and did they actually convert or did they actually subscribe?"

👋 Connect with Shane on LinkedIn!


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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: maximizing success with web subscriptions, how payment flexibility creates better user experiences, and why making cancellations difficult can do more harm than good.

Top Takeaways:

💳Web subscriptions aren’t just a cost-saving play - they’re a growth opportunity
Many apps start exploring web payments to avoid platform fees, but the real advantage is flexibility. The web allows for custom billing models, deeper pricing experiments, and new user acquisition channels, especially for high-intent verticals like health, fitness, and education.

🛠️Optimize the entire funnel - not just the paywall
Successful web-first apps think beyond conversion. They experiment heavily with onboarding flows, checkout experiences, and post-purchase retention tactics like cancellation flows and downgrade options to reduce churn and maximize lifetime value.

🏆Leverage win-backs and flexible pricing to keep users engaged
With more control over pricing and communication, web subscriptions open up retention opportunities that aren’t possible in the app stores. Offering discounted renewals, pausing options, or money-back guarantees can significantly improve customer satisfaction and long-term retention.

About Lucas Lovell:

📑 VP of Product at Paddle, focused on optimizing web-based billing and payment solutions for subscription apps.

📈 Lucas has deep expertise in monetization strategy, retention tooling, and payment flexibility, helping mobile app companies maximize revenue and customer lifetime value beyond the app stores.

💡 "The web is giving you opportunity and flexibility and tooling to do things that you are unable to do in the App Store, and that's the unlock that people are realizing when they come to the web. They're coming for the fees and staying for the flexibility."

👋 Connect with Lucas on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: diversifying revenue beyond subscriptions, what Google Play’s data reveals about buyer behavior, and why lower price points can actually increase total revenue. 

📈Expand beyond subscriptions to capture new buyers
Many users in emerging markets prefer one-time purchases over subscriptions, especially in categories like social, dating, and entertainment. Introducing consumable IAPs (e.g., class packs in fitness apps or AI-generated content credits) can increase buyer volume without cannibalizing existing subscriptions.

🌍Use localized pricing and alternative payment methods
Pricing that works in the U.S. or Europe may be too high in emerging markets, where prices are 40% lower on average. Google Play data shows that adapting to local purchasing power - with regional pricing, installment payments, and alternative payment methods - can boost conversions and overall revenue.

⚡Optimize purchase flows to reduce friction and increase LTV
Too many pricing options can overwhelm users and delay decisions. Instead, introduce the right offer at the right moment based on user behavior signals. Google Play’s benchmarking tools and Play Console analytics help developers fine-tune pricing, offers, and subscription models for higher conversions and long-term retention.

About Tammy Taw:

📱 Product & Business Growth Consultant on the Google Play team, specializing in helping app developers optimize monetization and diversify revenue streams.

📊 Tammy specializes in analyzing buyer behavior and guiding app developers in optimizing subscriptions, in-app purchases, and hybrid models for sustainable growth.

💡 "No one solution fits all users—you need revenue diversification strategies. Once you’ve saturated your subscription model, it’s time to explore consumables and one-time purchases to reach new buyer segments."

👋 Connect with Tammy on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: why some apps see 30 times higher revenue on iOS versus Android, the challenges of running a business on multiple platforms, and why you should consider offering a free Android device to employees.

📱 Android expands global reach, but iOS drives early traction

iOS dominates in U.S. and premium markets, making it the best platform for an initial launch. Android, however, is essential for expanding globally, especially in emerging markets where adoption is higher. Apps that target international scale should prioritize localization and pricing strategies for Android users.

💸 User behavior and revenue potential vary by platform

Monetization differs significantly - photo apps see up to 30x higher revenue per user on iOS due to Apple's stronger photography brand and higher user spending. However, on Android, business-oriented users spend more when an app directly impacts their income, making B2B and productivity apps strong contenders for success.

💡 Android's lower fees and customization offer strategic advantages

Google Play charges 15% on all subscriptions, compared to Apple’s 30% initially (dropping to 15% after the first year). This means Android revenue can have higher margins despite lower ARPU. Additionally, Android offers more flexibility in tracking, design, and experimentation - giving developers greater control over app performance and user experience.

About Matt Rouif:

📸 Co-Founder and CEO of Photoroom, leading innovation in AI-powered photo editing and automation for businesses and creators.

📊 Matt specializes in scaling mobile apps across iOS and Android, optimizing monetization strategies, and overcoming platform-specific challenges to drive sustainable subscription growth.

💡 "As a business owner, it doesn’t matter. There’s no filter on if you’re an iOS or Android person. There's actually no bias. And so that's why at the end of the day everyone is working."

👋 Connect with Matt on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: why optimizing for user success drives more revenue than conversion hacks, how to maximize the impact of annual plans, and why relying too heavily on discounts is a trap.

Top Takeaways

🏋️‍♂️Segment early to acquire the right users

Long-term retention starts before users even download your app. Ladder segments potential users through quiz-based onboarding, tailoring messaging and acquisition strategies to fitness personas. Speaking to the right audience from the start leads to higher engagement and better retention.

✅Optimize trial experience for activation, not just conversion

Instead of pushing for immediate sign-ups, Ladder removes credit card barriers and focuses on getting users to complete their first workouts. Those who finish at least two workouts in the trial are far more likely to convert and remain subscribers long-term.

📊Match pricing offers to user engagement

Not all trial users should see the same offer. Ladder segments post-trial users based on their workout completion history. Engaged users are encouraged to commit to annual plans, while inactive users see monthly offers with first-month discounts to lower the barrier to entry.

About Greg Stewart

🏋️‍♂️ CEO of Ladder, leading one of the fastest-growing fitness apps by focusing on retention-driven growth and user success.

📊 Greg specializes in building sustainable subscription models, prioritizing long-term engagement over quick conversion hacks, and maximizing the impact of annual plans.

💡 "Everything that we build, every feature that we contemplate inside the app is all aimed at incremental workout completions. It's all aimed at keeping you around the app, keeping you motivated to continue on and stay consistent with your plan."

👋 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: the power of cancellation surveys, how social proof can re-engage churned users, and why making it easier to cancel might actually boost retention.

Top Takeaways:

📦Deliver personalized value through lifecycle marketing
Reconnect with churned users by personalizing content and recommendations based on their past interactions. Use dynamic segmentation to tailor messages that highlight relevant new features or content. Making users feel understood increases the likelihood of re-engagement.

💵Use targeted discounts wisely
Offer personalized discounts to price-sensitive users, but do so strategically to avoid hurting long-term revenue. Consider tiered discounts based on subscription history or engagement level. Avoid blanket discounts to prevent users from gaming the system.

🤔Provide flexible subscription options
Increase retention by offering flexible plans, such as shorter durations or the ability to pause subscriptions during off-seasons. This builds trust and reduces churn from users who only need the app occasionally. Flexibility makes users feel more in control and more likely to return.

About Caroline Walthall:

📈 Director of Product & Lifecycle Marketing at Quizlet, driving user retention, re-engagement, and subscription growth.

🔄 Caroline focuses on understanding churn behavior, leveraging social proof, and designing win-back strategies that keep users engaged.

💡 "You need to sort of win back and give them reasons to believe that you are invested and that you have enough ways to help them that maybe they haven’t tapped into before."

👋 Connect with Caroline on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: how onX Maps tailors freemium and trial strategies to different user needs, the role of user education in driving upgrades, and why experimenting with features and tiers is essential for subscription growth.

Top Takeaways:

🔎Educate users about paid features
Don’t assume users know they’re on the free tier or understand the value behind premium features. Clearly communicate the benefits of upgrading through in-app education and feature highlights. Show users what they’re missing to increase the perceived value of paid tiers.

🔥Target the right users at the right moment
Effective upsells require thoughtful timing and targeting. Segment users by behavior and trigger upsells when they’re most likely to convert, such as after interacting with a related feature. Contextual nudges feel more natural and less intrusive, increasing the likelihood of conversion.

🚀Maintain a seamless user experience
Upsells are most effective when integrated naturally into the user journey. Avoid disruptive pop-ups - place upgrade prompts where they align with user actions. Maintain continuity in messaging to make the transition from free to paid feel logical and valuable.

About Brandon Gador:

🏕️ Growth Lead at onX Maps, driving subscription success across multiple apps for outdoor enthusiasts.

📈 Brandon specializes in aligning monetization strategies with user needs, refining freemium and trial models, and creating seamless upgrade experiences through education and experimentation.

💡 "Monetization only works when your product solves real problems. It's about showing users the value they’re missing and guiding them toward it thoughtfully."

👋 Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: Keeping users engaged through habit-forming experiences, Duolingo’s approach to reactivating churned users, and why building daily habits is the foundation for long-term retention success.

Top Takeaways:

🏎️ Act fast - most users don’t come back after a week
The best time to re-engage a churned user is within the first three to four days. Duolingo found that users who stay away for longer become significantly harder to bring back. They send daily reminders for up to seven days, stopping when effectiveness drops.

📅  Use behavioral signals to personalize timing
Instead of relying on fixed schedules, time win-back messages based on past engagement patterns. Duolingo schedules reminders 23.5 hours after a user last engaged, ensuring notifications land at a moment when the user is most likely to take action.

👥 Use social connections for long-term reactivation
For users who have been inactive for weeks or months, social reactivation beats app-driven outreach. Duolingo prompts active users to bring back their friends, which consistently outperforms standard win-back campaigns - even leaderboard competitors drive higher reactivation rates than app reminders.

About Jackson Shuttleworth:

🌟 Head of Retention at Duolingo, focused on keeping users engaged and driving daily habit formation through innovative features and thoughtful strategies.

📈 Jackson brings expertise in user reactivation, data-driven experiments, and crafting experiences that foster long-term loyalty and growth.

💡 "The easiest way to retain a user is to never let them churn. It’s all about building habits and delivering value consistently."

👋 Connect with Jackson on LinkedIn!

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On the podcast, I talk with Anton about building sustainable viral growth loops at scale, how to effectively gamify user incentives, and why emotional connections drive more value than economic ones.

Top Takeaways:

 🚀 Building sustainable virality through strategic growth loops

Sweatcoin’s explosive growth didn’t happen by chance. Anton detailed how they engineered a viral engine through a combination of influencer-driven groundswell, controlled user-to-user invites, and strategic use of organic boosts. By balancing short viral spikes with long-term retention strategies, Sweatcoin has maintained stability and continued scaling without relying on traditional paid acquisition.

🎮 Gamification redefined: Turning steps into currency
Unlike traditional gamification tactics, Sweatcoin reframes users’ steps into a virtual currency, creating a balance they feel emotionally invested in. This subtle but powerful shift motivates users to keep walking—not just for rewards but to maintain and grow their “wealth.” It’s less about streaks and badges, and more about building perceived value.

❤️ Emotional connections outweigh economic incentives
Anton shared a fascinating insight: Sweatcoin users valued their own coins up to 50 times more than they’d pay for someone else’s. This shows the power of emotional connection and personal investment. By helping users see value in their own activity, Sweatcoin taps into a deeper motivational layer than just financial incentives.

🔄 Retention through positive habits, not guilt
Sweatcoin’s success is partly due to its focus on positive reinforcement rather than guilt-based nudges. By emphasizing natural daily habits and offering fun, valuable incentives, Sweatcoin maintains high retention without making users feel pressured or judged. This approach resonates with a broader audience, including the 70% of people who struggle with intrinsic motivation for fitness.

📈 From freemium to subscription—scaling with intent
Instead of starting with hard paywalls, Sweatcoin built a value-packed free tier that users love. This created a loyal, engaged user base before introducing premium features like ad-free experiences and advanced fitness tools. By establishing this solid foundation, Sweatcoin avoids the pitfalls of high customer acquisition costs and effectively bridges the gap from free to paid without alienating users.

About Anton Derlyatka:

👟 Co-founder & CEO of Sweatcoin, the app that turns movement into currency—used by 180M+ people worldwide.

🎯 Anton built one of the most viral fitness apps by rethinking incentives, gamification, and how people form habits.

💡“We’re not born to be active—we’re born to be lazy. The challenge is building an experience that makes movement rewarding.”

👋 LinkedIn

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: why the Big Mac Index falls short for app pricing, how Flo Health’s regional pricing strategy drives profitable user acquisition in emerging markets, and the importance of aligning pricing with long-term user retention for sustainable growth.

Top Takeaways:

💭 Know your audience - not just the economy
Don’t rely on basic indexes like the Big Mac Index. Instead, understand your audience in each region. For example, iOS users in emerging markets are typically wealthier than Android users, so pricing should reflect each platform’s unique audience.

💸 Test prices with a focus on revenue, not conversion
Measure pricing success by average revenue per user (ARPU), not just conversion rates. Lower prices can boost retention and unlock profitable user acquisition by winning more auctions through better conversion signals.

🌎 Adapt to cultural norms and changing habits
Price sensitivity varies by culture and is influenced by local norms. Streaming giants like Spotify and Netflix are paving the way for digital subscriptions globally. Monitor cultural shifts and adapt pricing strategies accordingly.

About Dmitry Gurski:
🌍 CEO and Co-Founder of Flo Health, Dmitry Gurski leads the world’s largest health app, with 73 million monthly active users globally and a mission-driven approach to health and wellness.

📊 Dmitry is an expert in regional pricing strategies, leveraging extensive experimentation to optimize average revenue per user (ARPU) while maintaining accessibility. Under his leadership, Flow has achieved remarkable revenue growth by tailoring subscription models to meet diverse market dynamics worldwide.

💡 "When people can’t pay, it’s almost sinful to block access. Flow’s mission is to empower women globally, whether through paid or gifted subscriptions. Pricing isn’t about conversions—it’s about maximizing long-term value while staying true to our purpose."

👋 Connect with Dmitry on LinkedIn!

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This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

On the podcast: balancing freemium and premium experiences, how The Weather Company uses AI to predict subscriber behavior, and why focusing on user value rather than monetization is the key to subscription success.

Top Takeaways

🎯Target high-value users with personalized experiences
Identify your most valuable cohorts through deep segmentation and user research. Tailor paywalls and premium features to resonate with each segment’s needs, maximizing conversion rates without alienating casual users.

🌍Leverage contextual triggers and data-driven targeting
Use contextual signals (like weather data) and AI propensity models to reach users at the right moment. This makes paywall prompts more relevant and effective, driving higher conversions while maintaining a positive user experience.

⌨️Test, learn, and iterate continuously
Adopt a rigorous approach to A/B testing with clear hypotheses and well-defined KPIs. Be patient and run experiments long enough to account for external variables. Regularly refine AI models and adapt strategies based on evolving user behaviors and market conditions.

About Rachel Chukura:

🌦️ Head of Consumer Product at The Weather Company, specializing in driving subscription growth and balancing freemium and paid user experiences.

📊 Rachel has a deep expertise in leveraging data analytics, user research, and AI propensity models to optimize conversion strategies while maintaining a seamless and valuable customer experience.

💡 "We don’t lead with monetization—it’s an outcome of creating a truly useful and performant experience for our users. It’s all about meeting them where they are and delivering value when it matters most."

👋 Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn!

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On the podcast I talk with Ashley about what makes Google App Campaigns so effective for growth, proven optimization strategies, and why lower CPMs can sometimes be a warning sign rather than a win.

Top Takeaways:

📈 Google App Campaigns: Big reach, but fewer levers to pull
Google’s ad platform delivers massive scale - search, YouTube, the Play Store - but hands much of the control to machine learning. That tradeoff can work in your favor, but only if you guide the system with structured testing, smart bidding, and strong creative input.

🎯 Lower CPMs aren’t always a reason to celebrate
Lower ad costs might look good on paper, but they often mean your ads are running in lower-quality placements. Understanding where Google is serving your ads - whether in search, display, or YouTube - helps you avoid cheap but ineffective traffic.

🚀 Scaling requires patience, not just budget
Google’s algorithm doesn’t respond well to drastic changes. Scaling too fast can throw off performance, leading to unstable results. The best approach? Increase budgets by 20% every few days to give the system time to adjust.

🔍 Creative testing looks different on Google - play the game accordingly

Unlike Meta, Google doesn’t allow direct A/B testing for creatives. That doesn’t mean you can’t optimize. The best way to guide the algorithm? Set up multiple ad groups with distinct creative themes, then monitor what Google prioritizes.

💡 Google Ads on iOS: A challenge, but still worth it

Google’s iOS campaigns rely heavily on search and YouTube, but ATT and SKAdNetwork make tracking conversions trickier. Google fills in gaps with modeled conversions, but advertisers need to understand the discrepancies between Google’s reports and their MMPs.

About Ashley Black

👨‍💻Founder of Candid Consulting, an agency specializing in helping apps run effective marketing campaigns for Android and iOS.

🎶 Ashley spent years at Google leading app ad strategy, helping developers scale through machine learning, user acquisition, and optimization.

💡“If you have an app and you’re starting to think about how you actually pay to get users to download that app, you’re probably going to start looking at Google.”

👋 LinkedIn

On the podcast I talk with Sherina about why performance marketing eventually hits a ceiling, how to think about measure brand marketing, and why sometimes ignoring A/B test results leads to better outcomes.

Top Takeaways:
📈Freemium can’t feel cheap

Deezer once took a hardline approach to converting free users – limiting features to push them toward paid plans. The result? Users didn’t upgrade; they just left. The best freemium models strike a balance: give users real value, build habit and trust, then make the premium experience feel like a natural next step.

💡Bundles and partnerships – growth without the ad spend
Instead of relying solely on ads, Deezer fuels growth through partnerships. Deals with telcos, hardware companies, and retailers like Sonos and Mercado Libre help put the app in front of millions of potential users. Bundling subscriptions with other services doesn’t just expand reach – it makes premium features feel like a built-in perk rather than an extra cost.

🎯Performance marketing won’t scale on its own
Performance marketing can be an incredible growth engine – until it isn’t. As Deezer scaled, Sherina Khalidi saw firsthand how it eventually hits a ceiling. Brand marketing plays a crucial role in breaking through, keeping Deezer top of mind so performance campaigns can work more efficiently. Without that balance, acquisition costs rise, and growth stalls.

🚀Measuring brand marketing when the usual tools fall short
Traditional attribution models struggle to capture the impact of brand marketing. At Deezer, Sherina and her team use a mix of media mix modeling, incrementality testing, and brand lift studies to fill in the gaps. Even when direct tracking isn’t possible, data-backed decisions still are.

🔍Why ignoring A/B test results sometimes leads to better outcomes
A/B tests can be powerful, but they don’t always tell the full story. When Deezer tested new homepage designs, the data suggested sticking with an old, cluttered version – but Sherina’s team knew it wasn’t the right long-term choice. By trusting their instincts and focusing on user experience, they saw better results over time. Sometimes, the best decisions aren’t the ones that win the test.

About Sherina

👨‍💻VP of Performance Marketing at Deezer, a popular music and audio streaming platform.

🎶 Sherina has spent nearly a decade at Deezer, driving sustainable growth through freemium, performance marketing, and strategic partnerships.

💡“Freemium only works if it’s actually free. Take away too much, and users won’t upgrade—they’ll just leave. The best freemium models build habit and trust before making the upsell.”

👋 LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:
[1:10] Capitalizing on the opportunity: How Deezer took advantage of a cultural shift to become one of the pioneers of monthly subscriptions in the music industry.
[3:37] Changing their tune: Why the Deezer team pivoted from trying to frustrate users into paying for a subscription to leveraging strategic advertising partnerships.
[10:23] A David and Goliath story: How Deezer competes with large audio streaming brands like Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Apple Music, and Spotify.
[16:12] Playing the long game: Brand marketing may not provide immediate returns in revenue, but a solid brand image and positive user sentiment make performance marketing more effective.
[24:47] Measurement re-mix: How media mix modeling and incrementality testing can help you understand the effects of your marketing efforts better than basic tracking and attribution.
[34:16] Calculated risks:To succeed with performance marketing, you have to be willing to innovate, test, and learn from failure.
[38:32] Gut instinct: Data can help you understand what is and isn’t working, but it can also be misleading — sometimes you just have to trust your instincts.
[40:36] Knowing your audience: How user-centricity can help you make better marketing decisions.

On the podcast we talk with Bruno about putting customers ahead of metrics, why there’s still massive opportunity to build successful apps today, and how a server crash turned into an accidentally successful A/B test.

Top Takeaways:
📈 The app ecosystem still holds massive opportunities
Developers often assume the app market is saturated, but it continues to evolve with new possibilities. Technologies like AI, AR, and better hardware create untapped opportunities for developers who are willing to innovate. Even in mature categories, developers can find success by solving specific user problems and offering unique value. Genius Scan’s long journey from a dorm-room project to a 5M MAU business shows that with the right focus, developers can still thrive in the app economy.

💡 Putting customers ahead of metrics builds better businesses
Focusing on user needs over short-term KPIs creates stronger, longer-lasting businesses. Genius Scan avoids manipulative monetization tactics, instead building trust through transparent pricing and responsive support. By prioritizing the customer experience, the team has cultivated loyalty and word-of-mouth growth, proving that a people-first approach can lead to sustainable success.

🎯 Simplified pricing boosts revenue without hurting adoption
Bold pricing experiments can yield surprising results. When Genius Scan consolidated its subscription offerings by removing the lower-priced tier, the number of daily purchases remained the same, but revenue tripled as users gravitated toward the higher-tier option. This proves that users value premium offerings when they deliver meaningful value. Streamlining pricing not only simplifies decisions for customers but also creates opportunities for businesses to maximize revenue while maintaining adoption.

🚀 Small changes can drive big results in app performance
An accidental server crash led Genius Scan to discover that simpler banner text converted twice as well as their original messaging. By intentionally testing the change, they uncovered a small tweak with outsized results. This underscores the power of continuous experimentation—businesses can uncover growth opportunities by testing everything from messaging to UX design.

🔍 Bootstrapped success proves apps can thrive without funding
Indie developers can compete with tech giants by delivering specialized features that go beyond the basics offered by platform-native tools. Genius Scan, with its advanced scanning and export functionality, demonstrates how bootstrapped businesses can thrive by solving real problems for specific audiences. Building a sustainable business doesn’t always require outside funding—it requires focus, persistence, and delivering meaningful value to users.

About Bruno Virlet

🚀 Co-founder of Genius Scan, one of the earliest and best scanning apps for smartphones, bringing advanced document scanning to millions of users worldwide.

📄 Bruno Virlet started Genius Scan with his roommate as a fun side project during their time at the University of Illinois, turning a simple idea into a 15-year journey of bootstrapped success.

💡 “We didn’t want to be entrepreneurs—we just wanted to build something useful. It was about creating an app we’d want to use ourselves. That’s still the ethos driving us today.”

🔧 Through continuous experimentation (even accidental A/B tests!), Bruno has grown Genius Scan to 5 million monthly active users—all while staying true to a customer-first approach.

👋  LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:

[00:00] The Genius Scan journey begins: How a side project in a university dorm room grew into one of the most successful scanning apps with 5 million monthly active users.

[02:09] Pivoting early: The original idea was scanning paintings in museums, but technical and market constraints led to a shift toward document scanning.

[05:38] A stroke of luck: How a canceled trip and a refund led Bruno to buy a MacBook and develop the first version of Genius Scan in just six weeks.

[07:26] App Store beginnings: Launching Genius Scan as a free app in 2010 and watching it skyrocket in the rankings before experimenting with monetization.

[13:45] Competing with tech giants: How Genius Scan stays relevant and competitive despite Apple and Google introducing native scanning features.

[19:50] Customer-first philosophy: Why Genius Scan focuses on user experience and avoids dark patterns, keeping features accessible without sacrificing long-term user trust.

[26:43] Experimenting with subscriptions: The shift from one-time purchases to subscription models, and how removing a lower-tier option increased revenue without affecting conversion.

[43:56] The accidental A/B test: A server issue revealed how minor changes in paywall text and presentation doubled conversions.

[50:05] Learning from feedback: How staying close to users through direct support drives product improvements and reinforces customer loyalty.

[57:45] Building a company for the long term: Bruno reflects on balancing growth, profitability, and personal priorities, emphasizing the value of independence and sustainable success.

On the podcast we talk with Nathan about the strategic opportunity of web2app, how and when to use web2app, and why one app found success using webinars in their web2app funnel.

Top Takeaways:
🔑 Web-to-app opens up opportunities for small apps
Smaller apps can use web-to-app strategies to improve cash flow, gain better attribution data, and test acquisition campaigns with smaller budgets. It’s an effective way to experiment with paid growth without relying solely on app store mechanics.

🎯 Gain full control over the user journey
Web-to-app lets developers craft highly personalized and seamless user journeys. Build onboarding flows, quizzes, and paywalls tailored to your users, free from app store restrictions.

🌎 Reach untapped audiences with web-first content
Web-to-app opens the door to users who don’t convert directly through app ads. Channels like blogs, gated content, or webinars are excellent for capturing lower-intent users and nurturing them into app subscribers over time.

💸 Increase revenue with smarter sales tactics
Web-to-app enables upsells, cross-sells, and product bundling that aren’t always feasible in-app. This strategy is particularly effective for higher ticket subscriptions or apps looking to diversify revenue streams.

📣 Leverage unique channels to drive growth
Web-to-app expands the range of channels you can use effectively, from influencer campaigns with trackable links to affiliate partnerships, YouTube ads, and beyond. Each channel provides new ways to engage users at different stages of the funnel.

About Nathan Hudson

Resoureces:

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Episode Highlights:

[3:01] What does web-to-app mean?: Nathan Hudson explains the concept as converting traffic on the web or starting on the web before directing users to the app.

[5:28] Web-to-app strategies for different use cases: Nathan highlights common approaches such as quizzes, blog posts, and webinars to drive user engagement and app downloads.

[6:31] Defining web-to-app: Jacob Eiting describes it as using the web as part of either an acquisition or retention funnel.

[8:50] The benefits of cash flow: Nathan explains how web-to-app helps early-stage apps avoid waiting for long payment cycles by leveraging web purchases.

[10:50] Comparing conversion rates: Nathan shares that web often achieves higher conversion rates than app stores, particularly for higher-ticket subscription products.

[14:28] The role of attribution: Nathan discusses the advantage of better attribution tools on the web compared to app-only campaigns.

[20:23] Controlling user journeys: Nathan highlights how web-to-app allows brands to tailor onboarding experiences based on ad campaigns and user behavior.

[30:01] Reaching new audiences: Nathan explains how web-to-app campaigns can attract low-intent users and nurture them through lead magnets and webinars.

[37:07] Expanding to older audiences: Nathan discusses how web funnels allow brands to engage with desktop users and older demographics who may avoid app-only experiences.

[52:46] Personalization for success: Nathan emphasizes the importance of tailoring user experiences on web-to-app journeys to reflect user needs and context effectively.

On the podcast we talk with Phil about how to effectively use benchmarks to aid decision making, the limitations of benchmarks, and why even the best companies aren’t top quartile in every single metric.

Top Takeaways:

📏 Benchmarks are a starting point, not a roadmap
Treat benchmarks as directional indicators to uncover growth opportunities and prioritize actions, but don’t chase them blindly. They work best as tools for identifying areas to explore rather than metrics to perfect.

🏆 Focus on strengths over chasing perfection
It’s unrealistic to aim for excellence in every area. The most successful companies lean into their strengths, improve key weaknesses, and focus resources where they will make the biggest impact.

⚔️ Beware of misleading benchmarks
Not all benchmarks are helpful. Poorly sourced, overly generic, or irrelevant data can lead to wasted effort or misguided decisions. Use benchmarks that are specific to your category, geography, or growth stage.

🔍 Metrics only matter with context
Numbers on their own don’t tell the full story. A high churn rate might be fine if you acquire users cost-effectively and retain high-value customers. Metrics need to be interpreted with a deep understanding of your product and target audience.

💡 Data is powerful, but intuition seals the deal
Data highlights where to focus, but the most effective decisions come from pairing metrics with experience, intuition, and a clear understanding of your customers. This balance of analysis and instinct drives smarter, more impactful strategies.

About Phil Carter

👨‍💻 Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth, a consultancy dedicated to scaling consumer subscription companies through actionable benchmarks and strategic insights

👥 Phil Carter is committed on empowering consumer subscription companies to achieve sustainable growth by leveraging benchmarks, refining growth strategies, and identifying key opportunities for value creation, delivery, and capture.

💡  “Where people get in trouble with benchmarks is they try to make them the end-all. be-all right. They try to do more with them than they really should be.”

👋 LinkedIn

Resources:

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Episode Highlights:

[1:37] The Subscription Value Loop: Phil introduces his framework for driving sustainable growth through value creation, delivery, and capture, and how it applies to subscription businesses.

[5:52] Benchmarks as tools: Phil explains how benchmarks are a directional tool to guide decision-making and identify growth opportunities rather than an end-all, be-all.

[13:07] Judging good ideas: The team discusses how great execution relies on judgment and filtering good ideas to focus on what moves the business forward.

[20:53] Using the Subscription Value Loop: Phil shares how the framework acts as a diagnostic tool for spotting bottlenecks in client businesses and setting growth priorities.

[24:47] The impact of pricing and free value: Phil describes a fitness app’s challenge with over-delivering value for free, resulting in low subscription conversion rates and pricing adjustments.

[30:26] The power of subscription retention insights:Phil explains how understanding differences in retention between annual and monthly subscribers can shape pricing and product strategy.

[36:32] Interpreting benchmarks through context: The hosts discuss how benchmarks differ based on the business model, user acquisition strategy, and market dynamics.

[42:46] Paid vs. organic growth strategies: Phil underscores the risks of being overly dependent on paid ads and the value of diversifying acquisition through organic channels.

[47:18] Value capture and monetization: Phil explores strategies for optimizing conversion rates, pricing, and paywalls to increase revenue capture from free users.

[55:45] What’s next for the Subscription Value Loop Calculator: Phil shares plans for enhancing the tool with better data, new filters, and expanded benchmarks in future versions.

On the podcast: estimating the revenue potential of an app, crafting an exit strategy, and why LTV is such a terrible metric.

Top Takeaways:
🎯 Finding the right market fit – Not all apps have billion-dollar potential, and chasing massive markets often means competing with big players. Instead, focus on markets where your app has room to stand out. By positioning yourself in a "Goldilocks zone"—big enough to scale but niche enough to avoid overcrowding—you’ll lay the groundwork for sustainable growth.

📈 Portfolios over all-in strategies – Instead of putting all your effort into scaling one app, building a portfolio of smaller, successful apps can diversify risk and drive steady revenue. Portfolios give you the flexibility to test new ideas and spread your earnings across multiple use cases, avoiding the pitfalls of over-concentrating on one product.

🔍 When to expand features or create a new app – Apps with focused, singular value propositions tend to attract and retain users better than those overloaded with features. Before adding more functionality, ask: Does this align with the app’s core mission? If not, consider launching a complementary app to avoid cluttering your existing product.

🧪 Price testing without regrets – Effective price testing requires patience and precision. Run small tests, and use early retention patterns—such as trial-to-paid or monthly renewal rates—to model the impact on long-term subscribers. Always prepare for possible retention dips by planning worst-case scenarios to protect your bottom line.

✍🏻 Set up for a strategic exit – If acquisition is your goal, build your app to be buyer-ready. Private equity and strategic acquirers look for apps with clean operations, predictable revenue, and scalable systems. Crafting a clear differentiation and avoiding operational mess increases your chances of attracting high-value offers and makes the process smoother.

About Patrick Falzon
👨‍💼 Co-founder of The App Shop, Patrick helps app developers build sustainable portfolios, optimize monetization, and prepare for strategic exits.

📈 With extensive experience in app monetization and growth strategies, Patrick is focused on creating streamlined user experiences while identifying opportunities for sustainable scaling and market differentiation.

💡 “A big market is great only if you can take a substantial or specific share of that market. If it’s so competitive that you can’t garner any market share, it’s not actually valuable to you."

👋 Patrick on LinkedIn

Resources
The App Shop website

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Episode Highlights
[1:41] The story begins: Patrick’s career evolution — from investing in to operating at Mosaic Group.
[7:59] A stand-out app: Why RoboKiller, an app for blocking spam calls and texts, stood out in Mosaic’s portfolio.
[9:07] Evaluating market size: Mosaic’s framework for assessing an app’s revenue potential balances market depth with competition and user demand.
[14:20] Tough markets to crack: Mosaic avoided saturated app categories (like VPNs and personal finance), due to high acquisition costs and competitive pressure.
[19:36] Depth vs. breadth: How Mosaic decided whether to enhance existing apps or create new ones.
[25:52] Portfolio strategies: Building a diverse portfolio of smaller apps, instead of scaling a single app, can reduce risk and increase sustainable revenue.
[32:14] LTV pitfalls: Patrick stresses the importance of capping LTV projections and focusing on shorter payback periods to make realistic growth decisions.
[39:20] Exit strategy: Aligning operational processes, profitability, and a clean setup improves the chances of a successful app exit.
[49:12] Retain to sustain: Why user retention metrics are key to building durable, long-term revenue.
[1:01:05] Good press: How Mosaic leveraged proprietary data to secure media coverage, boosting RoboKiller’s organic growth and user trust.

On the podcast: the power of user segmentation, executing bold strategic shifts, and why imaginary customer conversations are sometimes better than real ones.

Key Takeaways:
💡 Simplification drives growth - Alex shares how transitioning from a freemium to a free trial model simplified V1 Sports' monetization strategy, aligning better with their users and discovering new revenue opportunities.

🤔 Rethink assumptions to uncover opportunities - Alex emphasizes the importance of questioning outdated business assumptions, using user feedback and internal discussions to refine strategies and reignite growth.

📊 User segmentation unveils hidden value - By identifying key user needs, like connecting golfers with coaches, V1 Sports leveraged segmentation to create tailored offerings that boosted engagement and revenue.

⏳ Bold decisions can pay off - Switching longstanding free features to paid access generated friction but ultimately led to a 90% revenue growth, proving that sometimes taking risks is necessary to drive business viability.

🌐 Focus on ideal users for long-term success - Alex highlights the importance of catering to highly engaged users who find value in the product, ensuring sustainable growth while reducing churn from less committed users.

About Alex Prasad

👨‍💻 CEO of V1 Sports, a leading provider of video golf swing analysis software and seamless video lesson solutions for golfers and instructors.

👥 Alex Prasad is committed to driving growth through bold strategic shifts, user segmentation, and simplifying complex monetization models to serve better the needs of both consumers and professionals in the golf industry.

💡  "You can’t please everybody—much harder when those people are already in the tent and some may perceive it as you kicking them out because you’re changing the rules of the game."

👋 LinkedIn

Resources - Alex

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Episode Highlights

[2:10] Adapting for success: How V1 Sports, a 30-year-old technology company, became a leader in video golf swing analysis by adapting to market changes.

[5:48] Trials and tribulations: Why V1 Sports switched from freemium to free trials, and the challenges it created.

[10:32] Keep it simple:How simplifying monetization can lead to new revenue opportunities.

[17:15] Bold bets and backlash: Asking long-time users to pay for previously free features and navigating the resulting backlash.

[24:30] Segmentation wins: How V1 Sports identified key user needs, like finding a coach, to create tailored solutions and increase engagement.

[30:22] Innovation meets tradition:The challenges of preserving legacy app features while modernizing your product to meet new user demands.

[36:48] Critical feedback: The dreaded one-star review can be an opportunity to improve and grow your business.
[43:10] Talking it out: How Alex uses hypothetical user dialogues to guide product and customer strategy decisions.
[57:20] Know your audience: Alex emphasizes the importance of catering to ideal customers and avoiding the trap of chasing uncommitted users.

On the podcast: what’s currently working for apps on TikTok, how to create viral content, why you should try working with influencers who don’t have many followers.

Key Takeaways:

🔍 Getting noticed: How TikTok’s algorithm amplifies reach - TikTok’s “For You Page” prioritizes engaging content over follower count, so apps can go viral without a big audience.

📈 E-commerce strategies that work for apps on TikTok - E-commerce brands have mastered quick, punchy content on TikTok, and app marketers can adopt similar tactics. Short tutorials, “top 5” lists, and problem-solution demos grab attention fast and build trust.

🚀 Adding viral-ready app features for growth loops - Viral-ready features, like progress trackers or custom shareable visuals, give users a reason to promote the app. Highlighting milestones, achievements, or unique app insights adds a built-in social layer that drives organic growth.

📝 Think like a TikTok producer, not a consumer - Scroll with intention. Save top content by category to keep your ideas fresh and aligned with TikTok trends.

🧪 Testing app ideas and features on TikTok - Test app ideas and features on TikTok with waitlists and concept marketing to validate user interest before building.

About Joseph Choi
👨‍💼 Founder of the Viral App Founders Community, with a background in e-commerce marketing and a keen focus on helping app developers go viral, especially through innovative approaches on TikTok.

📈 Joseph has a deep understanding of viral marketing and influencer strategies, emphasizing the value of working with “micro-influencers” or creators with smaller followings who often drive authentic engagement.

💡 "On TikTok, it’s not about having a huge follower count; it’s about connecting with users through genuine, engaging content. Even a new account can achieve millions of views with the right approach."

👋  Follow Joseph on X → https://x.com/JosephKChoi

🗣️ Register for the upcoming webinar with Joseph.

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Episode Highlights 

[5:12] Leverage with TikTok: Joseph explains why TikTok’s unique “For You” page allows even new accounts to reach massive audiences without needing followers.
[11:35] Influencer shift: Why working with micro-influencers, or creators with smaller followings, can lead to higher engagement and more authentic content for apps.
[18:43] TikTok Shop revolution: Joseph dives into how TikTok Shop’s affiliate model has changed the game for e-commerce, allowing products to reach audiences quickly with creator-driven content.
[24:58] Crafting a viral hook: Apps that create emotional, relatable hooks gain traction, especially when leveraging TikTok’s algorithm to amplify visually appealing content.
[32:12] Power of authenticity: How TikTok users value authenticity over polished content and what that means for brands looking to grow on the platform.
[39:47] AI and content quality: Joseph discusses the intersection of TikTok’s AI and quality content, stressing that no algorithm trick beats a strong story and engaging format.
[45:09] Effective CTAs on TikTok: Best practices for call-to-actions on TikTok, focusing on subtle prompts over traditional “link in bio” strategies.
[53:20] Content inspiration: Joseph’s method of tracking viral content trends and adapting successful formats to keep app marketing fresh and engaging.

On the podcast: the risk of ad creative concentration, how to reach older, high-value demographics, and why the ultimate KPI is revenue.

Key Takeaways:

🛠️ A unified roadmap eliminates silos - Operating with one shared roadmap ensures alignment across product, marketing, and engineering, promoting collaboration and agility.

💡 Monetization might require more than just subscriptions - Post-IDFA, blending subscriptions with ads and one-time purchases maximizes revenue and reaches non-subscribers.

📺 TV and radio ads still build trust - Older audiences trust TV more than digital ads. A diversified media mix and real-time tracking can make these channels highly effective.

📊 Creative testing prevents costly surprises - Diversifying creative assets across platforms reduces risk and ensures consistent ad performance, even when policies change.

🎯 Empathy boosts customer loyalty in niche markets - High-touch, personal responses to customer feedback—especially in sensitive sectors—can build trust and long-term loyalty.

About Ryan Beck 

👨‍💻 Co-founder and CTO at Pray.com — an app with a mission to grow faith, cultivate community, and leave a legacy of helping others through faith-based content and community-building features.

👥 Ryan Beck is driven by innovation in technology for the faith space, successfully navigating the complexities of building digital platforms that resonate with older, high-value demographics while maintaining exceptional retention rates.

💡 "We saw a space that was underserved, where technology could bridge the gap between faith organizations and their communities, making faith more accessible in the digital age.”

👋 LinkedIn

Resources

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Episode Highlights:

[00:57] Digitizing faith: Pray.com’s mission to modernize faith organizations with digital platforms.
[02:49] Better together: The challenges and benefits of building a platform for diverse faiths with shared goals.
[04:47] Generation gap: Addressing tech adoption and user retention challenges with older demographics.
[06:47] Traditional values: How Pray.com used TV and radio ads to reach older, high-value users.
[09:16] Say your prayers: The devotional content that strengthened Pray.com’s user engagement and retention.
[11:52] Keeping the faith: Introducing subscription models without losing the trust of a faith-driven community.
[19:59] Lessons in diversification: The risks of relying too heavily on a single ad creative.
[31:08] Faith meets tech: Blending technology with spirituality to create accessible digital content for all.
[41:26] Data-driven decisions: How the Pray.com team optimized their TV and digital ad strategies for maximum impact.

On the podcast: effectively scaling support for an app, why the time to first response is so important, and why you should treat support more like a concierge experience.

Key Takeaways:

💡 Personalized customer support is a competitive advantage - Eli emphasizes that providing fast, personal responses to customers sets brands apart from competitors. Even in a world of increasing automation, building a concierge-like experience can boost customer loyalty.

🤖 AI and human support can work in harmony - Eli explains how Captions blends AI-driven automation with human agents, allowing the support team to focus on more complex customer needs while AI handles repetitive tasks, creating a seamless experience.

⏳ Speed matters: Time to first response is key- Captions prides itself on a 58-second average response time, which Eli believes is critical to keeping customers satisfied and preventing churn. Quick responses signal that the company is engaged and ready to help.

📊 Building customers for life through proactive support - Eli shares Captions’ philosophy of nurturing “customers for life” by going beyond just resolving issues. Sharing customer success stories with the team helps build a culture focused on long-term user satisfaction.

🌐 Scaling with localization and 24/7 support - Captions serves users globally by providing 24/7 support and localized services, ensuring that customers in every market receive timely, effective assistance regardless of their language or region.

About Eli Winderbaum:

👨‍💻Head of Customer Experience at Captions, an AI-powered video creation and editing app designed to help users tell better stories through seamless video content.

👥 Eli is passionate about scaling customer support with a focus on personal, concierge-level experiences that build long-term customer loyalty, rather than simply deflecting inquiries with automation.

💡"Even if we don't resolve their issue right away, providing a fast, empathetic response builds trust and shows our users that we're here to support them—turning a quick interaction into a lasting connection."

👋 LinkedIn

Resources: 

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Episode Highlights 

[3:18] Don’t just deflect: Why support isn’t just about reducing tickets—it’s about creating a concierge-like experience.
[8:26] Support as a moat:Great customer support can be your competitive edge, especially when users are comparing similar apps.
[12:15] Hiring right: How curiosity and embracing change are key traits for building a top-tier support team.
[16:44] The AI edge: Blending AI and human agents to enhance, not replace, the customer experience.
[21:22] Scaling globally: How Captions offers 24/7 support across different time zones and languages.
[27:50] Community roots: The role that platforms like Discord can play in early-stage customer feedback and feature development.
[34:10] Docs and AI: Keeping documentation up to date is crucial for effective AI-powered support.
[41:35] Turn feedback into features: Captions' approach to quickly implementing user feedback to create loyal customers.

On the podcast: the rebound of consumer subscription valuations and investor interest, how to generate Net Revenue Retention in consumer, and why you should pinpoint where your app sits on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Key Takeaways:

📈 The subscription app industry is rebounding in 2024 - After setbacks in 2022 and 2023, surviving companies are now leaner, more focused, and showing strong profitability and retention. This resurgence is reflected in both private transactions and public valuations, signaling positive momentum.

💡 Net Revenue Retention (NRR) is achievable in consumer apps - Top-performing apps boost NRR by stabilizing churn and driving revenue growth through price increases, family plans, and premium features. The key is delivering ongoing value to loyal users while maintaining strong retention.

🎯 Maslow's Hierarchy of Subscription Needs offers a roadmap for retention - Successful apps align with user passions by addressing needs like safety (e.g., Life360) or self-actualization (e.g., Calm). Integrating features like leaderboards and community functions deepens user engagement and fosters long-term loyalty.

🛡 Platform threats like Apple's "Sherlocking" can be overcome with specialization - Apps that go deep in their verticals (e.g., Flo or AllTrails) offer premium, differentiated experiences that platform-native features can’t replicate. Innovation and specialization are key to thriving despite competition from OS-level features.

🚀 Flo’s success shows the power of retention and long-term engagement - Flo’s $200M raise and $1B+ valuation were driven by its freemium model and strong user retention across life stages. By building long-term relationships with users, Flo has positioned itself as a leader in the female health space.

About Eric Crowley

👨‍💻 Technology investment banker and partner at GP Bullhound.

💵 Eric is passionate about providing advice and capital to consumer subscription software (CSS) businesses.

👋 LinkedIn

Resources:

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Episode Highlights

[4:32] The Rule of 40: A good rule of thumb for correlating your business’s trading value with your growth rate and profitability.

[9:10] Rising tide: Successful app businesses like Flo are part of a recent wave of mergers and acquisitions in the CSS industry.

[15:39] Land and expand: How consumer subscription services are improving net revenue retention (NRR) with their existing users.

[23:15] Sherlocked: The threat of Apple and Google releasing new platform features that compete with niche subscription apps.

[31:52] Law and order:How app business owners and investors are thinking about new regulations like the Digital Markets Act (DMA).

On the podcast: The benefits of building something you personally care about, how to balance user feedback with product intuition, and why process, frameworks, and outside advice are often worth ignoring.

Key Takeaways:

🚀 You don’t need complex processes to build a successful product

Building something meaningful doesn’t always require elaborate processes or formal business structures. With passion, a clear vision, and consistent execution, developers can create successful products without overcomplicating the journey.

🔄 A strong feedback loop with your community can drive product evolution

Engaging with an active user community creates a continuous feedback loop that helps developers iterate faster and build more relevant features. Listening to real users and balancing their input with your vision can transform a product into something that truly resonates.

📈 Pricing strategies require experimentation, not perfection

Initial pricing doesn’t need to be perfect. By experimenting with different price points over time, you can find a balance that works for your users. Significant price increases might not impact demand as much as you’d expect, giving you room to adjust and optimize without overthinking the starting point.

💡 Reactive development can lead to faster, more informed decisions

Acting quickly in response to persistent customer requests can help validate new features and insights faster. Instead of over-analyzing, shipping updates rapidly provides real-world feedback that guides better decision-making.

💸 Plan for risks when relying on third-party dependencies

Building heavily on a third-party API can expose you to unexpected changes in pricing or policies, potentially leading to unsustainable costs. Always evaluate the long-term stability and alignment of external platforms with your business goals to safeguard against disruption.

About Christian Selig 

👨‍💻 Indie iOS developer and creator of the Apollo for Reddit app.

📱In addition to Apollo, Christian is also the creator of Juno, Pixel Pals, and a burgeoning YouTube channel.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights

[3:33] Origin story: Christian’s time at Apple and path to indie development.

[4:58] Positive feedback loop: How collecting user input from Reddit users helped shape Apollo.

[8:23] Go your own way: There’s no one-size-fits-all formula for creating a successful app.

[15:25] Passion project: Truly caring about what you’re building is one of the most important factors for success.

[26:48] Just say no: How to decline feature requests without alienating your users.

[30:10] Choose your own adventure: Understanding the venture-backed model versus indie development.

[36:30] End of the line: How and why Christian made the decision to shut down Apollo.

[47:40] Vision for the future: Christian’s post-Apollo projects: Juno, Pixel Pals, and YouTube.

On the podcast: The impact of Apple Search Ads on organic search, how to save money on brand defense, and why ROAS shouldn’t be the only thing you optimize for.

Key Takeaways:

📊 Optimizing brand keyword bids can protect traffic and reduce costs
Running ads on brand keywords helps protect your traffic from competitors. By experimenting with lower bids, you can often maintain visibility while reducing costs, ensuring that you capture valuable traffic efficiently.

💸 Long-term ROAS is key for subscription app growth
Subscription apps should focus on the lifetime value (LTV) of users rather than just immediate ROAS. A campaign that breaks even over 365 days, rather than in the first week, can still be highly profitable if it contributes to stacking valuable subscriber cohorts that generate long-term revenue.

🔄 Broad match keywords can uncover valuable, unexpected search terms
Using broad match in Apple Search Ads can help discover new, high-intent keywords that might not have been initially considered. Regularly reviewing search term reports allows you to identify and capitalize on these hidden opportunities, expanding your app’s reach effectively.

🌍 Emerging markets offer untapped Apple Search Ads potential
As Apple expands its App Store presence in new regions, testing campaigns in countries like Brazil can lead to unexpected gains. Often, these markets have less competition and lower CPAs, making them fertile ground for scaling your app’s user base efficiently.

🛠️ Custom product pages can enhance campaign performance by targeting specific user segments
Leveraging custom product pages in Apple Search Ads allows you to tailor the App Store experience to specific keywords or user segments. This strategy can improve conversion rates by aligning the app's messaging and visuals with the search intent, making it especially useful during seasonal promotions or for targeting niche audiences.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Data engineer and founder of Search Ads Optimization.

📢 Dilip helps app developers and marketers optimize their Apple Search Ads campaigns and increase their ROI using data-driven insights and automation.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights

[5:35] Everybody’s changing: Trends for Apple Search Ads in 2024.

[11:09] Running (brand) defense: Experimenting with lower bids to save money while maintaining the level of impressions you want.

[19:16] Widening the search: How to leverage exact match and broad match keywords in Apple Search Ads.

[29:46] ‘Tis the season: How different times of year and holidays can affect CPA and ROI for Apple Search Ads campaigns.

[35:05] Playing the long game: Why subscription app developers should think about long-term — not short-term — return on ad spend (ROAS).

[48:16] Tipping the scales: How to scale Apple Search Ads.

[55:11] Custom-fit: How to implement custom product pages in your Apple Search Ads strategy.

On the podcast: How to find success with web2app, the value (and challenges) of “owning the transaction”, and why avoiding app store fees isn’t a great reason to experiment with web2app, but might work out anyway.

Key Takeaways:

💰 There’s much more to web2app than avoiding app store fees - In fact, looking at app store fees alone disregards the benefits of going via the app store, such as a substantially better conversion rate. Even if web acquisition is cheaper, those users are not worth the same to your business.

🔍 Better advantages of web2app to focus on include…Greater flexibility with attribution, access to new audiences (via organic and paid), and support for B2B use cases, among others.

💼 Use web2app for B2B billing -IAPs lack an elegant solution for B2B billing, whether it’s making it easy for individuals to expense purchases or offering teams a simple way to manage group billing.

🎯 Web2App allows for greater customization of user journeys -To fully capitalize on web funnels, tailor user journeys based on their entry point — for instance, a user coming from a branded Google search shouldn’t see the same journey as one coming from TikTok.

📈 Web2App is crucial for scaling up advertising -When ad campaigns plateau, running both web and app campaigns in parallel helps reach new audiences and convert users who might not engage with app install ads alone. This approach allows for better targeting and expands your overall reach.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Independent subscription app growth consultant.

💸Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights:

[1:48] Web2App: The advantages of capturing users on the web before sending them to your app.

[6:51] One size doesn’t fit all: To reap the benefits of web2app, don’t just create one user experience on the web.

[11:30] Catch-22: The trade-offs of owning your customer transactions on the web versus paying app store fees.

[27:21] Learn by example: Who’s doing web2app well — and why it works for them.

[37:45] To B2B or not to B2B: How web2app helps B2B apps overcome the team billing and expensing challenges of in-app purchases.

[41:55] Owning it: Owning your transactions on the web can be a great way to reduce churn.

[44:34] World wide(er) web: Break through marketing plateaus by running both web and app ad campaigns in parallel.

[53:52] Cross-platformer: A web2app flow can help you go beyond the App Store and Google Play (to Roku, Apple TV, or the Amazon Appstore) to reach a wider audience.

On the podcast: Implementing effective offline marketing campaigns for acquiring, engaging, and retaining paid subscribers in the app space. 

Key Takeaways:

📢 Look beyond digital channels for app growth. Consider offline advertising channels such as radio, linear TV, and podcasts to reach untapped demographics. These channels can help you target non-digital audiences, particularly older, higher-income users who can be more lucrative for subscription-based apps.

🔄 Use diverse methods to measure offline marketing. Utilize a variety of attribution methods, including how-did-you-hear-about-us surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling (MMM) to assess the effectiveness of offline channels. Accept the inherent ambiguity in measurement and use multiple data points to guide your strategy.

🎯 Embrace customer-centered metrics for better retention. Focus on creating proprietary metrics that align with your users’ goals rather than relying on standard industry metrics like daily active users. Babbel’s "learner success" metric prioritizes user progress and satisfaction, leading to higher retention rates.

🔍 Rethink freemium models to boost engagement and conversions. Freemium isn't always the best choice. Consider a hard paywall to increase user commitment and filter out less-engaged users. It’s about quality over quantity — attracting users who truly value your app.

🌐 Optimize both web and app experiences for user journeys. Users often start on the web before downloading your app. Ensure seamless transitions between platforms to improve user experience and conversion rates. Informative web experiences can ease app adoption.

About Guest

👨‍💻SVP of Growth at Babbel.

📢 Steven and his team have taken a non-traditional approach to marketing Babbel: leveraging offline advertising channels like radio and TV, measuring the success of marketing efforts through a proprietary model, and tracking metrics like learner success instead of monthly active users.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights

[0:44] There’s (more than) an app for that: Potential users aren’t just on the app stores, so shouldn’t your marketing campaigns be everywhere too?

[3:54] Radio star: How and why Babbel buys radio spots to advertise their subscription app.

[7:43] Attribution remix: Measuring the success of offline ads can be a challenge and requires a blend of data analysis methods (like user surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling).

[13:57] Freemium isn’t free:Why Babbel rejects the freemium model in favor of a hard paywall.

[18:15] The measure of success:Is Monthly Active Users (MAU) really a good metric to optimize for? (For some mission-driven companies like Babbel, no.)

[18:46] You get what you pay for: Paid subscriptions — especially premium tiers — often see higher levels of user engagement and retention.

[21:43] Web slinger: An optimized web experience can boost app downloads and paid conversions.

On the podcast: How to make better decisions with data, the many pitfalls of collecting and interpreting data, and why the best executive dashboard is probably a hand-written weekly email.

Key Takeaways:
📝Balance data collection with business goals. Collecting all possible data can drown teams in noise and lead to compliance risks. Focus on collecting semantically important data that aligns with business goals and use cases to avoid unnecessary complexity and costs.

💡Prevent exponential cost increases by structuring data early. Establishing a well-structured data collection and management process early on prevents costly modifications and adjustments later. Early alignment and thoughtful planning are crucial.

🔒 Maintain control over data collection to simplify compliance. Managing your own data collection processes can reduce legal and compliance challenges associated with third-party data processors. This is especially crucial for adhering to regulations like GDPR.

🔧Opt for off-the-shelf data solutions early on. Leveraging open-source or ready-made solutions can save time and resources. Maintain a clear evaluation structure for transitioning to custom solutions when needed, and accept changes in data collection methods to avoid outdated systems.

📊Simplified insights over complex dashboards. Dashboards can overwhelm executives with too much data. Instead, providing a succinct, focused summary of key insights through something as simple as a weekly email can be more effective for decision-making.

About Guest 

📈 Director of Data Products at News Corp.

💡With over 15 years of experience, Taylor is an expert in building and implementing effective data collection and analytics strategies — helping organizations like Disney+, Business Insider, and Deloitte collect the right data and turn it into actionable insights.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights

[3:44] Laying a foundation: Data collection is a lot like constructing a building — setting up the right framework from the beginning can save you a lot of time, effort, and money later.

[7:30] The Goldilocks zone: Collecting either too much or too little data is costly and can potentially have ramifications for data regulation and privacy laws.

[16:58] Information overload:Data is only helpful if you derive actionable information from it.

[20:33] Distilling data: What is a “data product” team? (And why might you need one?)

[26:13] Build vs. buy: Most companies should start with an off-the-shelf data collection solution instead of building something internally — then consider a switch later when the scale and financials make sense.

[33:45] What’s in a name? What you call specific data points and even your data collection system can be very important.

[42:11] Ditch the dashboard: Fancy data analytics dashboards need to be interpreted to be valuable — and without context, they can be misleading.

[51:27] Trix are for… kids?:How Taylor’s experience promoting the television show “Bluey” on Disney+ illustrates the incredible power of data analytics.

On the podcast: How Mojo grew to over $1M in MRR, the most impactful pricing and paywall experiments, and why it’s important to choose complexity instead of just letting it happen.

Key Takeaways:

💪Bravery to pivot leads to long-term success. Early popularity can be deceiving. Without strong retention, it's time to pivot. Build features users love to evolve from a gimmick to a sustainable business.

🧱Make your paywall more prominent. Show your paywall during onboarding. Then, iterate on messaging, design, and pricing, focusing on one element at a time.

💲Pricing will always annoy someone. If no one complains, you’re underpricing. Be strategic about who you upset and how many people.

🤝Viral loops reduce the need for ads. Heavy ad spend can hide a lack of product-market fit. Build sharing and virality into your app first, then consider paid acquisition.

📈Choose complexity based on impact. Focus on your team’s strengths. Growth can be product-led or through, for example, paid acquisition, depending on what suits your team and app best.

About Guest

👨‍💻CEO and co-founder of the video editing app Mojo.

🎬 Former GoPro employee and graduate of the Y Combinator accelerator program, Francescu and his team have built one of the top mobile apps for creating and editing social video content.

👋LinkedIn

Resources

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Episode Highlights 

[4:27] AI + Mobile = ❤️: Why AI is probably the next mobile revolution.

[6:16] Going Pro: How Francescu got his start building mobile subscription apps.

[7:44] Pivot… PIVOT: Despite early success with their augmented reality app, Francescu and his team had to shut it down and pivot to a new idea.

[15:12] Pricing and paywalls and packaging, oh my:Why you need to show your paywall during onboarding (and other monetization lessons Francescu learned building Mojo).

[27:42] Viral moments: Building social sharing features into your app could save you time and money on user acquisition.

[36:19] The product-led growth trap: Developing new product features isn’t always the key to growth.

[41:15] Priced to annoy:If no one is mad about the cost of your app, your prices are probably too low.

On the podcast: Quitting a job to build your own apps, returning to that job after failing to gain traction, and the inflection point that allowed our guest to finally quit for good.

Key Takeaways:

💡If your first side project doesn’t take off, try again — Reviving a lackluster launch can be tempting, but it might indicate a lack of demand. Instead, start fresh with a new idea and watch for early signs of product-market fit.

💰Invest more in your product once you have “pull” and a channel — Achieving early product-market fit and having a reliable acquisition channel allows you to focus on enhancing your product and experimenting with monetization strategies.

🔞Avoid relying solely on one acquisition channel — While a dependable early channel like ASO is crucial, it comes with risks outside your control. Diversify by investing in owned or paid channels to adapt to changes more effectively.

🧑‍💻Building in public offers numerous advantages — Developing your app publicly immerses you in a supportive community of indie developers, providing motivation, inspiration, and valuable feedback. However, it can also attract copycat competitors.

📈"Test higher prices" should be at the top of your to-do list — Raising your app’s price may seem risky, but many indie developers are overly cautious. A/B testing can help you safely explore the impact of different price points without significant customer backlash.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Independent app developer and creator of HabitKit and Liftbear.

💡Sebastian began his career as a corporate web developer and became a full-time indie app developer after his habit-tracking app HabitKit took off.

👋LinkedIn

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Episode Highlights

[1:04] Web versus mobile: What motivated Sebastian to switch from web to mobile app development.

[4:17] Free solo: Having a corporate day job might not let you stretch your creative muscles as much as building your own concepts.

[6:43] Drive: If you’re going to build an indie app or venture-backed startup, make sure it’s something you needto do.

[12:13] Risky business: The riskiness of leaving a full-time job to pursue an indie venture is different for everyone, depending on life stage, finances, and family obligations.

[16:39] Just ship it: Your first idea might not be great, but getting started will lead to new, better ideas.

[24:04] If at first you don’t succeed: Sometimes it’s better to give up on an idea that isn’t working so you can focus on one with better product-market fit.

[28:38] Doing the (side) hustle: Making the decision to keep your day job or fully commit to your side gig can be tough.

[34:45] Changing the channel: The app stores are a black box — it’s a good idea to invest in additional acquisition channels in case of algorithm changes.

[38:26] Building in public: Having a following on social media can be a great source of support and user loyalty outside of the app stores.

[45:00] Raising prices:Don’t be afraid to experiment with higher prices — many apps are leaving money on the table.

On the podcast: Another Apple WWDC conference is in the books, and as usual, we’re excited to dig into everything Apple announced — and what it means for iOS developers and RevenueCat users. This year’s announcements covered everything from small quality-of-life enhancements in App Store Connect to the deprecation of some of Apple’s oldest in-app payments code.

Key Takeaways:

🏪 StoreKit 1 is deprecated — After 15 years, the old and creaking first version of StoreKit is being deprecated by Apple. It’ll likely stick around as so many legacy apps still use it, but StoreKit 1 will not receive new updates and features. 

🧠 Apple Intelligence — AI, rather than spelling the end of apps, could usher in a new era for apps. By building AI directly into the OS, connecting to services in a privacy-conscious way, Apple is opening up the potential of AI to all apps on the App Store. 

👀 Vision Pro — While Vision Pro is now available in new markets and has received an update to VisionOS, it still feels like a “publicly available beta”, where the audience size remains small. Great for experimentation, but not a place to build a business (yet). 

🧘 Quality-of-life improvements — Apple announced plenty of quality-of-life updates such as reduced screenshot requirements (now only one size per platform!), deep links for custom product pages, and a better experience for TestFlight users. 

🏆 Win-back offers — A fourth offer type is now available, which applies to users whose subscriptions have lapsed, something which wasn’t easy before. Win-back offers also come with functionality we haven’t seen before with the other offer types. 

🔏 AdAttributionKit — In what seems to be a successor to SKAN, Apple has announced a new privacy-focused ad attribution framework. AdAttributionKit better standardizes what existed before and comes with some new features (such as compatibility with third-party app stores).

About Hosts:

David Barnard is a Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and creator of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.

Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat and an expert on subscription apps and in-app purchases.

Charlie Chapman is a Developer Advocate at RevenueCat, an indie developer of apps like Dark Noise, and host of the Launched podcast.

Follow us on X:

Resources:

Episode Highlights

[2:00] Goodbye to an old friend: After 15 years, Apple’s StoreKit 1 (recently renamed “original API for in-app purchase”) has been deprecated.

[7:09] AI in the OS: With natural language abilities integrated at the OS level, Apple Intelligence could change how developers build and users interact with apps.

[16:42] Vision of the future: Apple Vision Pro 2.0 is a cool opportunity for developers to experiment with, but it’s still early days (and the addressable market is currently small).

[21:07] App Store Connect updates:Apple announced multiple quality-of life improvements for App Store Connect, including the ability to nominate your app to be featured on the App Store, new tools for generating marketing assets, deep links for custom product pages, an improved TestFlight user experience, and reduced screenshot requirements.

[39:04] Baby, come back: App Store Connect now lets you set up win-back offers, giving you a new way to re-engage lapsed subscribers and raise your LTV.

[49:03] Streamlined purchasing:Users can now complete their entire purchase within the App Store (or you can opt out of this feature if you’d rather direct users to the purchasing flow within your app).

[50:21] Advanced Commerce APIs: With complex SKU bundling and the ability to track digital content from multiple apps within the same developer account, the updated App Store will support more complex monetization use cases.

[52:49] SKAdNetwork 2.0?: Apple’s new AdAttributionKit, which feels like an upgraded successor to SKAdNetwork 1, provides enhanced reengagement capabilities (but only works with iOS 17.4 or later).

On the podcast: What to do when there are no jobs to be done, how to build innovative features, and why copying Duolingo’s engagement strategy probably won’t work for your app.

Key Takeaways:

🏆 To win over a mass market, you need to discover your app’s trigger. Apps serving niche audiences often have a well-defined job-to-be-done. Apps aiming for broad appeal, however, need to identify the triggers in a user’s daily life they will optimize for, in the absence of a specific user goal.

🪄 A framework for user retention. Apps that serve a mass audience need to work extra hard to engage and retain users. While niche apps might be inherently more retentive, they too would benefit from making the app: magical, relevant, intuitive in real-time, novel, and pleasurable.

🥅 Why you mightnotwant to make “the Duolingo” of your niche. Apps like Duolingo try hard to shame you for not using them but make completing the day’s goal quick and easy. This approach may not be suitable for all long-term goals and doesn't work well when your aim is to retain as many users as possible.

🧑🏼‍🎨 Innovation isn’t accidental, it’s designed - here’s a framework to help:

Always align with your mission.Visualize the specific user you’re building this feature for.Specify the triggers you’re addressing.Know the job to be done for the user.

Think through all of these areas when prioritizing your backlog.

👍🏼 Some features should be considered must-haves. Features that all your competitors have, fulfill a promise you sell users on, or whose absence will drive users to a competitor, or cause high levels of frustration if missing, should be prioritized. Deciding whether to prioritize these over innovative additions is up to you.

🦄 The other feature category to build for is “delighters.” While it’s difficult to know whether a feature will delight users, they typically drive retention, complete a known job in a delightful or magical way, and create “aha” or “wow” moments for the user.

About Guest

👨‍💻 VP of Strategy and creator of core features at Welltory.

💡Asya leads her team to build thoughtful, mission-aligned features that delight 8+ million active users.

👋LinkedIn

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‣ Jacob Eiting
‣ RevenueCat
‣ Sub Club

Episode Highlights

[0:44] The Welltory story: How (and why) Jane Smorodnikova founded Welltory.

[6:55] Trigger happy: Some apps don’t have an obvious “job to be done.” When this happens, finding and nurturing the trigger for users to open your app is crucial.

[10:18] Making magic: Welltory’s framework for building a delightful, sticky app: Make it magical, make it relevant, make sense in real time, make it novel, make it pleasurable.

[21:14] The Duolingo of wellness apps?:Why Duolingo’s retention strategy wouldn’t work for Welltory.

[26:16] An innovation framework: When deciding what new features to build, align with your mission, know your personas, identify their triggers, and figure out what immediate and high-level problems you’re solving for them.

[37:11] Driving retention: The secret sauce for retaining users for the long term? Make your app experience magical and novel, provide relief, personalize and gamify the experience, and give users bragging rights and social sharing features.

[40:32] Feature deal-breakers: Make sure you build both must-have and nice-to-have features to avoid frustrating users and prevent them from switching to a competitor app.

On the podcast: How developers can launch and optimize their app listings on the Google Play Store. A conversation from Google I/O 2024 with Sarah Karam, director of Apps Partnerships at Google.

Key Takeaways:

There are now more ways to optimize revenue with Google Play Commerce, such as installment subscriptions and automatically adjusted local pricing. 

On Android, the leading apps diversify their monetization. Instead of offering just subscriptions, for example, they offer IAPs to cater for diverse user preferences. Tipping, for example, has seen huge growth. 

The leading Android apps also adjust their overall approach to cater for the huge and diverse user base. Just replicating your iOS strategy will only serve a small fraction of potential customers. How can you serve someone on a $200 phone as well as a $2000 one? 

“The consumer rarely buys what you think you sell” and understanding this can lead to secondary product-market fit, unlocking new growth. Stop thinking about your app in terms of the feature(s) it offers and more about what problem it solves. 

About Guest

👨‍💻 Director of Google’s Apps Partnerships team.

🤖 Sarah is passionate about helping developers succeed on Google Play Store and the Android ecosystem.

👋LinkedIn

Resources

Google Play Academy

Guidelines to Getting Featured on Google Play

Guides to Help Grow Your Business on Google Play

Google I/O 2024 Keynote

Engage SDK

Custom Store Listings

Google Play business community on X

Android Developer YouTube Channel

Episode Highlights:

[3:57] Feature presentation: Getting your app featured on the Google Play Store can be great, but it isn’t the most important thing (and you still need to market your app to take advantage of being featured).

[8:46] Proactive engagement: Google’s newly announced Engage SDK(currently in developer preview) will surface apps at relevant times for users in the context they’re most likely to engage.

[13:53] Easier ways to pay (and get paid): New commerce options — including newly accepted forms of payment, installment payments, and student and senior plans — allow Android developers to serve more users around the world.

[23:37] Custom is key:Google Play Store listings can now be customized by the keywords users searched to find the app.

[29:38] Diversifying payments: Apps that offer in-app payments (IAP) in addition to subscriptions tend to perform better than apps that offer subscriptions alone.

[31:54] iOS =/= Android: To take full advantage of the Play Store, developers need to think about the diverse devices, budgets, and preferences of the 2.5 billion Android users around the world.

[34:40] Baby steps:Small experiments (like offering a paid 7-day pass instead of a free trial) can help you determine what works best for your app and tailor your offerings for diverse markets.

[45:00] Penny for your app?: Tipping is a surprisingly effective way of letting users pay for your product.

On the podcast: How the Microsoft 365 team optimizes their apps for the app stores and the top paywall optimization tips for enterprise apps and start-ups.Part 2 of our conversation with Ramit Arora.

Key Takeaways:

💼 Use jobs-to-be-done to inform your app store optimization (ASO) keywords strategy. Optimize for keywords that align with what your potential audience is hoping to accomplish. To discover what these keywords are, use the same user research that informs your product roadmap. 

🔐 Use Apple Search Ads (ASA) to unearth highly profitable keywords for ASO. A mistake that some apps make is to rank for keywords that are easy to rank for, not for ones that will drive revenue. Use ASA to discover which keywords are driving subscription growth, not just downloads and engagement. 

💲 High-impact paywall experiments that work for Microsoft will probably work for you. These include making the more expensive (family) plan the default option, anchoring the price of yearly plans to the monthly equivalent (emphasizing value), and ensuring that free trial offers use the word “free” on the CTA button itself. 

About Guest:

👨‍💻Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.

🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.

👋LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:

[3:31] Choosingkeykeywords:Don’t go after keywords simply because they’re easy to rank for — select keywords that will actually drive value for your business.

[8:54] The golden ratio: Even Microsoft has to balance their LTV vs. CAC.

[10:58] Android vs. iOS: Right now, it’s more difficult to monetize on Android, but it’s a promising market.

[13:01] Testing, 123: Microsoft optimizes paywalls with friendly CTAs and GIFs that show (rather than tell) the value proposition.

[15:55] Premium presentation: Simple changes like switching the order of subscription options on your paywall can result in a lift in conversions and revenue.

On the podcast: Microsoft 365 app monetization and optimization, and how Microsoft is building successful apps–recorded live in Vegas at the Mobile Apps Unlocked (MAU) conference.

Key Takeaways:

📱 The App Store advantage: Microsoft's data reinforces that the App Store, despite the fees attached, offers significant advantages. The seamless experience from things such as pre-attached payment methods results in a conversion rate from trial to paid that is five times higher than on other direct channels.

🚀 On the App Store, think like a startup (even if you’re not): Despite Microsoft’s strong brand, success in the App Store requires the agility and innovation of a startup. The platform's democratic nature allows new startups to challenge established companies. Continual innovation is essential and you need to be at the top of your game with ASO.

🔗 Bundling apps can mean better retention: Combining multiple apps into a single subscription can boost user retention by meeting a variety of needs. Even if a use case is one-off, there will be other use cases met by other apps. This strategy generally involves developing a wide range of features rather than focusing deeply on a single application.

🧠 Integrate AI thoughtfully: When integrating AI, it's important to consider if it genuinely enhances the tasks users perform and brings a desktop-level experience to mobile devices. This ensures the technology is both practical and user-focused, and not simply jumping on the bandwagon. 

⚖️ As you scale, prioritization never becomes any less important: As the number of monthly active users grows, you need to think bigger and bigger in terms of impact. Focus on optimizations that affect large user groups. Simple improvements in app reliability, performance, and the purchase process can often impact the largest number of users.

About Guest

👨‍💻Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.

🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.

👋LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[1:14] From desktop to mobile:Microsoft is famous for its desktop software, but it’s increasingly prioritizing its mobile apps to keep up with consumer trends.

[3:09] Paying by phone: Users prefer to make purchases using their mobile device — trial-to-paid conversion rates are nearly 5x higher on mobile than other channels.

[4:56] The start-up mindset: Think like a start-up to stay agile against the competition in the app stores.

[6:21] Value they can’t refuse: To retain users over the long term, Microsoft bundles multiple products and features into a single cost-effective app.

[8:22] Staying ahead of the curve:The key to becoming and staying a leading app? Neutralize the competition, differentiate, and incubate.

[17:19] Lighting up the small screen: Apps like Photoroom and Microsoft Copilot are using AI to make tasks historically done on a desktop easy on a mobile device.

[21:09] You can’t do it all: Prioritize the app optimizations and features that will have the biggest impact on your business.

On the podcast:The importance of passion for the product you’re working on, how to differentiate in a crowded market, and why achieving the ‘viable’ in Minimum Viable Product is harder than ever.

Key Takeaways:

📉 Ad-based revenue models too often lead to a degraded user experience. For ad-supported products, the real customer is the advertiser, not the end user. This causes a conflict between doing what’s going to create the best product and what’s going to drive the most advertising revenue. 

🚀 The bar for what makes a “viable” MVP is always getting higher. While no app first ships as a fully-formed 1.0, it’s now rarely viable to launch an app as a barebones MVP (minimum viable product). There are just too many apps offering too much competition to not offer a compelling reason for a user to switch. 

🔍 The “Jobs to Be Done” (JTBD) framework allows you to dig deeper than surface-level features. Gathering user feedback is essential, but users rarely request what they truly want. JTBD demands going deeper than feature requests by addressing the underlying need that the user wants to fulfill. 

❓ To get to the root cause of a user problem, ask the “five whys”. When a user makes a request, get into the habit of asking “Why?”. The more times you ask, the more clarity you’ll have on what you actually need to build, giving you jobs-to-be-done that can best meet the needs of your users. 

🌀How to capitalize on “black swan events”. Adaptability and swift action are key to managing unexpected high-impact events. It's essential to pivot from past decisions without being anchored by sunk costs and to act and ship quickly to capture new opportunities.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Seasoned Internet entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience building groundbreaking apps.

🌿Formerly an early employee at Mint, Val had a vision for a better, more user-centered financial health app.

💡“Try to pick a problem that you want to work on for 10 years — even if it were to fail. That’s how I feel. Even if Monarch were to fail, I would feel good that we moved the ball forward, we did something, we helped people along the way.”

👋LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:

[7:54] Ads vs. subscriptions: Why subscriptions (not an ad-supported model) were Val’s first choice for Monarch.

[9:12] The real MVP: In today’s subscription app world, the bar for a minimal viable product has gone way up.

[13:46] Just ship it (or don’t?):Getting customer feedback during the design phase may take more time up front, but it means identifying your users’ key “jobs to be done” in fewer product iterations.

[23:10] The five “whys”:Ask yourself… what is your app reallyselling?

[24:56] Disappoint-Mint: How Val went from the Mint team to creating Monarch — and what happened when Mint shut down.

[34:17] Modern marketing: Talking to potential users on forums like Reddit can be an effective way to build trust and win fans.

[36:31] The butterfly effect: What’s next for the Monarch team and business.

[38:02] On a mission: Val and the Monarch team are passionate about helping users improve their financial health.

On the podcast: The past, present, and future of Meta ads, tactics to scale subscription apps on Meta, and why you should probably exclude younger audiences in your targeting.

Key Takeaways:

⍰  Why Meta Ads? Its vast reach and precision targeting make Meta the best platform for discovery. Ads seamlessly integrate with organic content, providing a native experience for users and transparency for advertisers.

📈 Simplify for efficiency. Kick off with broad targeting within a consolidated account structure. As your understanding and budget deepens, become more targeted with tailored ad variations. 

🎯 Strategic targeting tips. To elevate conversion rates early on, sidestep users under 25 or 30 and prefer manual campaign setups. This initial focus enhances control, paving the way for more automated refinement later on.

🧘 Navigating SKAN with patience. Prioritize trial events and give the data time to crystallize into actionable insights. Rushed evaluations can deceive; allowing at least a week can provide a more accurate picture of your campaign's impact.

🦾 Harness creative diversity and precise placements. Scaling up means evolving your creative approach to suit distinct audience behaviors across Meta's diverse platforms. Meticulously analyzing demographic and placement data ensures your ads resonate more profoundly with your target audience. 

🖥️ Tips for better ads. Study native content and competitors to design ads similar to what users already see. Test new creatives in separate campaigns to protect your main campaign’s performance.

About Guest

👨‍💻Independent consultant who helps subscription apps unlock Meta as their primary growth channel.

📈 Marcus has over a decade of experience with a background in both gaming and consumer tech, working with companies like Forge of Empires, Blinkist, and Tandem. You can also find him on LinkedIn sharing practical advice on Meta Ads, Web2App, optimizing paywalls, and improving user onboarding.

💡“Don’t target too narrow. These algorithms usually need a lot of reach so they can use the data to find the right audience for you. If you apply a ton of targeting restrictions on top, then usually you pay a premium for targeting more granularly while performance is not necessarily better.”

👋 LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[9:18] Before and after: How Meta ad marketing changed after Apple’s App Tracking Transparency (ATT).

[17:56] Working within limits: The pros and (multiple) cons of SKAN 3.

[20:36] Into the Meta-verse: Why subscription apps are uniquely situated to benefit from Meta ads.

[23:40] (Best) practice makes perfect:How to optimize Meta ad campaigns to find the right audiences and maximize ROI.

[32:56] Right on target: Unlock your app’s advertising potential with more advanced creative and placement strategies.

[35:06] The other half of the equation: Ads are just the beginning of the customer journey — make sure your entire funnel is a seamless and compelling experience for potential users.

[48:25] Get creative: For the best ad performance and ROI, create ad content that matches what your users are looking for on social platforms.

[52:13] The future is bright: Upcoming developments like SKAN 4 and Meta’s Aggregated Event Measurement (AEM) should make creating and analyzing Meta ads easier.

On the podcast: The many failures of his recent app launch, the surprising results of his first-ever A/B test, and the many reasons why you shouldn’t plan a big app launch.

Top Takeaways:

🔄 Continuous evolution over big bangs: For subscription apps, frequent updates create enduring value, outpacing the impact of sparse, major launches. This steady stream of enhancements keeps your app relevant and signals relentless improvement to your audience.

🌱 Opt for flexible launches: Avoid putting all your hopes in one major launch. A strategy that includes multiple, smaller launches allows for adaptability and maintains your app's presence against the backdrop of an unpredictable news cycle.

📰 Press is unpredictable: Understand that media coverage does not guarantee app success. The broad reach may not always align with your target audience and many factors are outside of your control. Keep swinging, though, as some hits will indeed make a substantial impact — just keep your expectations in check. 

💰 Adopt value-based pricing: Pricing should reflect what customers value in your app, not just the costs to provide it. Value-based pricing doesn't necessarily mean charging more, it just means charging the perceived value. Users don’t care about the costs of providing a service.

🔍 A/B testing insights depend on the nature of the cohort. The origin of your app's users — e.g. via launch events or organic growth — plays a crucial role in interpreting A/B test results. What did or didn’t work for one group isn’t necessarily applicable for the next — so test and draw conclusions appropriately. 

About Guest:

👨‍💻Growth advocate at RevenueCat and indie developer of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.

🍎 Although he’s neither a designer nor a developer, David has been building the kinds of thoughtful, intuitive apps he wants to use since the App Store first launched in 2008.

💡“The tough thing about getting attention is you do have to do something unique… and that’s the trade-off. The calculus for me was, ‘Let’s wait and try to make a big splash with all these things.’ But really, we could have already launched the widget, and just adding interaction would have gotten attention.”

👋 LinkedIn | Twitter

Episode Highlights:

[11:04] Just ship it: Don’t try to release a ton of new features at once — you’ll get more attention and benefits by releasing incremental updates.

[23:11] Failure to launch: What’s the worst that can happen on your app launch day? A major Apple announcement!

[32:09] Riding the wave: Offering a launch-day sale on your app is a great way to increase conversions when you release a major update.

[36:16] The value of value-based pricing: Set your app’s price based on your target customer’s perceived value of your solution, not your idea of how much it’s worth and costs to run.

[42:54] Dog-fooding the ’cat: David used several RevenueCat features (like Paywalls and Experiments) to set up and monitor the results of the Weather Up 3.0 launch.

On the podcast: RevenueCat’s 2024 State of Subscription Apps report, the state of the app industry more broadly, and why a slight drop in renewals in 2023 isn’t as bad as it may seem.

Key insights:

📈 Optimize conversion rates: With a 1.7% average conversion rate from downloads to paying subscribers, there's a wide gap indicating room for improvement. North America shows higher conversions, spotlighting the need for regional price optimization.

🗓️ Persistence pays off: The top 5% of apps outearn the bottom quartile by 200 times a year post-launch. If year one is tough, consider pivoting or trying a new approach.

🗺️ Strategic focus is key: North America leads in app revenue, but don't overlook markets like South Korea, Japan, and India. Choosing the right platform and regional focus is crucial.

💲 Retention is crucial: A 14% drop in subscriber retention highlights the need for apps to focus on retaining users who truly value their service. It's vital to distinguish between loyal users and those less engaged.

📱 Reactivation grows with scale: While over 10% of churned subscribers resubscribe, reactivation becomes significantly more impactful as your app grows. Early on, prioritize acquisition and retention over win-back campaigns.

About Guests 

🎙️David Barnard is Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and host of this very podcast.

👋🏼David’s LinkedIn

💻Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat, a self-proclaimed computer person, and often co-hosts this podcast with David. 

👋🏼Jacob’s LinkedIn

Links & Resources

Check out RevenueCat online

Episode Highlights 

[1:31] Weathering the storm:After several years of turmoil in the subscription app industry, things finally started to settle down in 2023 — and app businesses are thriving.

[7:12] The business of intelligence:AI technology leapt forward in 2023, and mobile AI apps saw big wins.

[14:07] Stop guessing, start acting: The benchmarks in the 2023 State of Subscription Apps report can help you make data-driven strategic decisions.

[17:37] The state of the (app) union: Five key takeaways from the report that identify industry trends, potential pitfalls, and emerging opportunities.

[38:44] First impressions matter:Most trial starts occur within 24 hours, so make sure your user onboarding experience is compelling.

On the podcast: How to build a content marketing flywheel, the importance of content that’s inherently valuable, and why you shouldn’t give up on content marketing even if your early attempts only get a few views.

🛠️ Validate your app idea with minimal resources. Use a simple mock-up and some way to drive paid or organic traffic to gauge interest before development. Fares Ksebati tested demand for an app that didn’t exist by collecting emails via a basic website. This lean approach confirmed interest with over 200 sign-ups, showcasing an effective, low-cost validation method.

🌱 Startup accelerators: a selective boost for early ventures. For newcomers like Fares, accelerators are goldmines for skills in customer discovery and networking. They're most valuable for startups without a solid network or those aligned with the accelerator's focus. While they sharpen your pitch and connect you with mentors, their benefits may wane as your business matures. Choose one that fits your app's niche for the best impact.

🏃‍♂️ Content marketing is a marathon, not a sprint. Fares’s journey with MySwimPro underscores that content marketing requires patience and passion. Initially focusing on answering common swimming questions, the strategy wasn't about quick wins but building trust and brand over time. Early content may not drive immediate app usage spikes, but it lays the foundation for brand recognition and credibility. 

💸 Great content transcends user acquisition and unlocks direct monetization. Establishing a significant online presence, particularly on platforms like YouTube, offers dual benefits: attracting new users and generating revenue through ads and brand partnerships. This strategy highlights the power of creating engaging, value-driven content that not only draws in subscribers but also opens additional revenue streams.

🔍 The biggest mistake when experimenting with paid acquisition is not having the right analytics in place. Success in paid acquisition hinges on robust analytics for tracking campaign effectiveness and the ability to quickly adjust strategies. Without confidence in attribution and the ability to iterate quickly, budgets can be wasted on ineffective ads and you won’t be able to scale.

💬 Effective value communication eases the shift from free to paid subscriptions. Transitioning users from free to premium features necessitates a clear demonstration of added benefits. While consumers are increasingly willing to pay for software, that comes with higher expectations. But it’s important to remember that some users will always complain about price, regardless of cost, while some will always be willing to pay for the most premium subscription. Getting pricing right is a constant balance of qualitative user psychology with data-driven insight. 

About Guest:

👨‍💻Co-Founder and CEO of MySwimPro, an app that provides personalized workouts and training plans for swimmers.

🏊 An accomplished swimmer himself, Fares created MySwimPro to help swimmers of all skill levels improve their performance — even if they don’t have a team or coach.

💡“With content marketing, you have to do one of three things: You have to either educate people, entertain them, or inspire them. Now, if you're really good at any one of those, that's great. But if you're amazing, you can do multiple at the same time.”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources:

Episode Highlights:

[3:41] Fake it ‘til you make it:In 2014, Fares validated the idea for MySwimPro by driving traffic to a website for an app that didn’t exist yet.

[10:07] Don’t reinvent the wheel: Use tools that already exist (like Google and YouTube) to find what potential users are searching for and get the word out about your app.

[19:38] Changing the channel: Your app should have a presence on the social channels that best fit the brand and marketing acquisition funnel you’re trying to build.

[23:59] Content marketing pays off (literally):Monetize your marketing content with ads and brand partnerships for an additional revenue stream.

[30:33] Start simple: These days, making great marketing content is easier than ever — all you need is a smartphone and an inexpensive microphone.

[42:12] The price is… wrong?: Some of your users are willing to pay more than what you’re charging, and developing new pricing packages can unlock more revenue.

On 25th January, Apple published its guidance on how it would comply with the EU’s Digital Markets Act (DMA). The response, in keeping with Apple’s response to other demands for reforms, effectively disincentivizes most apps from taking advantage of the changes. The changes are complex and confusing, and the answer to whether apps should make changes isn’t completely black-and-white. 

To help developers navigate these changes, we pulled together an “emergency” episode featuring RevenueCat’s CEO Jacob Eiting and Head of Product Jens-Fabian Goetzmann, Runway CEO Gabriel Savit, and Nico Wittenborn, founder of Adjacent. 

Here are the discussion’s key takeaways:

📲 The DMA Reforms How App Stores Work in the EU — The DMA mandates that app stores, like Apple's, cannot enforce the use of first-party app stores or in-app payment systems in the EU. Android already supports third-party app stores (sideloading), so Google’s focus has been on offering alternative payments via “user-choice billing”. For Apple, which does not support sideloading, the EU reforms have needed to be much more significant.   

🔓 Apple Releases Opt-In New Business Terms — Apple’s response was to introduce an optional new set of business terms with a dizzying number of changes to fees and choices for developers. By opting-in, developers unlock new ways to distribute their app and charge users, but doing so comes with changes to and additions to fees paid to Apple. The changes are complex enough that developers have to analyze the implications very carefully.  

🌀Fee Structure of the New Terms is a Complex Maze —Apple's new terms introduce a convoluted fee structure, where reduced commissions are coupled with the Core Technology Fee (CTF), where developers pay €0.50 for the first annual install over a 1M threshold. The CTF includes not just first-time installs, but first annual re-installs and updates from first and third-party app stores as well. This install fee effectively means that any high volume low average revenue per user (ARPU) app is likely to lose out by accepting the new terms. 

🛑 Third-party App Stores Unviable for All but the Biggest Players — The new terms aren’t so rosy for potential new “marketplace apps”, either. New app stores will not be exempt from the CTF, making the first 3M downloads of the marketplace app itself cost the operator €1M — €0.50 per install over the 1M download threshold. And then apps within that marketplace also have to pay the CTF fee. This means that opening a third-party app store is unviable except for the very biggest attempts or for stores that have a high-charge per install (e.g. a game marketplace where users pay a relatively high one-off fee per game).     

🔍 There Might Be Strategic Opportunities, but They Remain to Be Seen — Yes, most apps seem to be better off sticking with the original terms. But there might be opportunities for niche apps. For example, apps that have a low volume of installs but high ARPU (by having a costly yearly subscription, for example) might be able to absorb the CTF, even considering yearly updates. An additional as-yet unexplored change is that Apple has introduced 600 new APIs, meaning that there’s an opening for new third-party applications and integrations.   

About Guests

📱Gabriel Savit is CEO of Runway, a release platform for iOS and Android apps. Find Gabriel on X and on LinkedIn.

💲Nico Wittenborn is Founder of Adjacent, an early-stage VC firm. Find Nico on X and on LinkedIn.

😺Jens-Fabian Goetzmann is Head of Product at RevenueCat

Links & Resources

Episode Highlights

[2:31] What is the Digital Markets Act (DMA)? It’s a series of directives set by the EU that aim to limit the dominance of large tech platforms, dubbed “gatekeepers” (of which Apple and Google are a part), and provide more choices to developers and end-users.  

[10:34] The principal decision that developers need to make in response to Apple’s changes is: do we switch to the new terms or remain on the old? Right now, there is no indication that it’s a two-way door. 

[13:34] When opting into the new terms, there are effectively four separate models: stay distributing through the App Store using Apple’s IAPs; stay distributing through the App Store but use alternative payment providers; distribute instead on a third-party marketplace using alternative payments; or distribute on both the App Store and third-party marketplaces. 

[15:47] The Core Technology Fee (CTF), in the new terms, charges developers €0.50 per first annual app install on installs above the 1M threshold. This includes first annual reinstalls and updates, and it’s the CTF that is fundamentally making the economics of new terms unviable for most developers. 

[30:24] Why haven’t third-party marketplaces taken off on Android? It’s probably down to the size of the opportunity. Most apps, even if they’re multiplatform, make most of their money on iOS. Now that the possibility of third-party marketplaces is available on the most profitable platform, it suddenly becomes worth looking into.

[41:41] There are instances where creating a third-party marketplace would be financially beneficial, such as a premium game distribution platform — higher-priced games ($20+) would negate the disadvantages shown by the CTF. 

[47:03] Unless things change, 99% of developers should probably not switch to the new terms. At best, it’s a bad idea, at worst it’s a huge distraction with the risk of owing Apple more in fees than revenue generated. There is a small subset of apps that could benefit, but those apps know who they are, and they’ll find a way to test the waters and mitigate the risk involved.  

[52:48] Another opportunity is the 600 new APIs that Apple is making available. It’s too early to say what that opportunity will look like, but there are likely to be some innovative third-party applications to come out of it.  

On the podcast: The strategic pitfalls in modeling Total Addressable Market, how freemium should work, and why Surfline’s current success was actually 38 years in the making.

Key Takeaways:

🎯SAM not TAM — The total addressable market (TAM) provides an overview of the market's potential size, but it's too general for strategic purposes. The serviceable addressable market (SAM) more accurately reflects the market portion you can realistically capture.

$ Understanding Price Sensitivity — Price sensitivity involves three key elements: Purchasing power (your market's ability to buy), commitment (likelihood of investing in your app), and value proposition (the value your app offers).

⚖️The Freemium Balance — Success in freemium models hinges on balancing increased conversions with retaining free users. If prioritizing one over the other becomes necessary, focus on retention to allow time for app improvements.

📈Growing Freemium Conversion Rates — A small percentage of free users convert to premium. The strength of freemium lies in its potential for increased conversion rates as your app improves and retains free users over time.

🤝Monetizing Through Partnerships — For free users, displaying ads can monetize the audience that may not convert. For premium users, focus on partnerships offering exclusive deals or benefits to enhance value and average revenue per user (ARPU).

About Guest:

👨‍💻Vice President of Strategy, Business Development, and Analytics at Surfline, an app that provides surfers updates on current wave conditions.

🏄 An avid surfer himself, Paul joined the Surfline team because he was passionate about the product.

💡“The biggest issue that I see with most companies that are going out to market and putting together their commercial strategy is they'll use TAM and they'll model everything off of that… But in reality… it's really important to figure out what the serviceableaddressable market is.”

👋 LinkedIn
🏄‍♂️ Check out Surfline

Episode Highlights:

[4:11] The 38-year-old startup: Surfline was originally founded as a 1-800 phone number in 1985 and added consumer subscriptions in 2001 (before Netflix did!).

[5:57] When TAM fails: Total addressable market (TAM) is an unrealistic number for modeling the number of users you’re likely to get — instead, calculate the serviceableaddressable market (SAM).

[14:46] Different approaches to TAM:You can calculate TAM from the top down or bottom up, whichever makes more sense for your business.

[19:04] The formula for price sensitivity: To effectively price your app, you need to understand (1) your users’ purchasing power, (2) your users’ level of commitment, and (3) the strength of your value proposition.

[24:40] Keeping the “free” in freemium: Remember to balance conversions with free user retention — it’s much easier to convert existing free users than it is to acquire brand-new users.

[37:48]Ads for all: Consider partnering with relevant brands to provide special offers to further monetize your paid subscribers.

On the podcast: Scaling to $5M in ARR on paid ads, positive and negative results from 121 A/B tests, and why they still haven’t built an Android app. 

💡 The Power of a Single Metric: Concentrating on just one key metric can be remarkably effective. In the early stages, it's common to take on too much. By zeroing in on a solitary metric, it becomes simpler to iterate and conduct large-scale testing.

👀 Subscriptions as a Market Fit Gauge: The subscription model acts as a litmus test for your app's value. Gating access early and observing if users are willing to pay offers clear evidence of your app's worth.

💬 Flexibility in Attribution Methods: There's no one-size-fits-all approach to attribution. Various apps adopt diverse strategies. Often, straightforward methods like asking users about their discovery path during onboarding can be the most reliable.

🤳🏼 Prioritizing Creativity in Paid Marketing: If your strategy leans heavily on paid marketing, expect to dedicate at least 80% of your efforts to crafting creative content. For smaller teams, collaborating with content creators and influencers can be an effective strategy for scaling. 

📱 Choosing a Single Platform for Initial Launch: Easing early-stage challenges is feasible by focusing on a single platform. Many startups overextend by launching on multiple platforms simultaneously. Opting for a single platform, such as iOS, allows you to concentrate your limited resources on achieving initial milestones before considering a broader launch.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Founder and CEO of Opal, an app that helps users limit their screen time and find focus.

📱 Even though iOS includes screen time management tools, Kenneth and his team believed they could improve the experience – and that users would pay for it.

💡“Essentially, if you get people to pay for your products… that's a pretty strong signal that you have something pretty valuable.”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources:

Episode Highlights:

[1:09] A three-phase approach: How the Opal team tackled building a subscription business for a screen time management app.

[4:54] When ad spend is worth it: Opal implemented paid marketing from the beginning – and it paid off.

[10:44] Attribution made easy: Sometimes the simplest method of finding out where users came from – just asking them! – is the most useful.

[13:08] Contracting creatives: Consider hiring independent contractors who care about your mission to build your ad content.

[17:22] From premium to freemium: Many apps (like Duolingo) start out free, then add paid subscriptions later. Opal is doing the opposite.

[25:53] Work smarter, not harder: Releasing your app on a single platform (instead of iOS, Mac, web, and Android all at once) can save your team a lot of time and money.

[30:07] Lessons from 121 A/B tests: Prioritize the bigger swings that will significantly increase your uplift early on.

On the podcast: How to pitch your app to the press, the importance of focusing on differentiation, and why customizing your pitch to an individual writer is so much more effective.

Top Takeaways:

PR for user acquisition (UA) is best suited for acquiring very specific users. If you’re looking for big numbers then there are better channels to use. But PR allows you to pinpoint your UA to reach smaller, higher-intent audiences, such as early adopters or power users, who help you fulfill a particular goal.

When working with PR agencies or consultants, know what kind of outcome you’re after. For apps that just want to reach a wide audience, a firm focused more on outreach at scale might be sufficient. But most apps will benefit more from a strategist who will help craft deep meaningful stories over the long-term.

When pitching, think about the writer, not just the publication. Find the writer who will have the greatest personal interest in your story — not only will your pitch success rate be higher, but the subsequent write-up will be much more meaningful and useful to you down the road. 

Keep your email pitch brief and your press-kit comprehensive. Use the subject line and body copy to highlight uniqueness; feel free to use images but keep it brief. Your press kit, however, should provide enough detail for the journalist to write their story out-of-the-box — but don’t go as far as to write it yourself.

To effectively pitch your app to TechCrunch, specifically, focus on what sets your app apart. A well-executed idea with quality design is just the starting point. Elevate your pitch by highlighting unique features and differentiation. Adding personal stories can further enhance the appeal and depth of your pitch.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Former Editor-in-Chief of TechCrunch.

✍️ With over 14 years of experience as a tech journalist, Matthew is an expert in the art of the pitch.

💡“Those stories tend to be the most potent, valuable, and interesting long term, especially for early-stage companies. You convert somebody into a believer, a believer in the thing that you’re doing, the thing that you’re trying to accomplish, the mission that you have. And those writers will become sort of chroniclers of your progress over time. If you’re able to capture one or two of those [writers] ... to get into the minds and hearts of individual writers at a publication, it’s so much more valuable than, ‘Oh, we got covered by Publication X.’”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources:

Episode Highlights:

[1:12] Pitch perfect:How to pitch your app to a tech reporter in a cold email (that they’ll actually read).

[14:01] Stand out from the crowd: A competitor’s downtime or failure may be a good opportunity to market your app, but it isn’t enough — you need to highlight your app’s differentiating features, too.

[18:05] Know your audience: Choose not only the right publication but also the right reporter to write about your app.

[26:41] Broad versus targeted UA: Getting your app featured in a publication like TechCrunch can help you acquire a highly interested group of users (early adopters, power users, and people who will send you feedback).

[38:12] The big leagues:What TechCrunch is looking for in a pitch.

[45:15] To PR or not to PR?: Whether or not you should work with a PR firm depends on your app.

[48:18] The whole kit and caboodle: Create a press kit that makes it easy for a journalist to tell your app’s story.

On the podcast: Phil's Subscription Value Loop framework, what it means to create robust value for customers, and why A/B testing shouldn't be your first step in price optimization.

Top Takeaways:

📈Quantitative growth models can help inform your growth strategy. These models are built around key user actions and growth loops incorporating variables like acquisition, retention, and monetization. They serve not just to align the company around common growth objectives but also as a tool to identify strategic leverage points for driving user and revenue growth.

📲Thesubscription value loopcan model successful consumer subscription apps.This loop, devised by Phil Carter, is a framework for consumer subscription apps that focuses on value creation, delivery, and capture. It identifies the most impactful areas to allocate resources, aiding in decision-making for product development and marketing strategies. It emphasizes the importance of balancing value creation for the user with the business's need to capture value, ensuring a sustainable and efficient growth model.

🔁The 4Rs ofvalue creation— robust, rapid, repeatable, remarkable —emphasize creating a product that solves real customer problems with strong product market fit, delivering value quickly, ensuring long-term engagement and value through repeatable benefits, and being compelling enough to spark word-of-mouth promotion. This framework guides in developing products that not only meet immediate user needs but also maintain their relevance and appeal over time.

💲Value deliveryis efficiently connecting users to your valuable product. The playbook of relying on paid marketing to acquire users no longer works, due to increased app store competition and reduced efficiencies caused by ATT. The healthiest subscription app businesses are built on a robust organic acquisition strategy as a foundation, where paid ads are supplementary.

🎯The 5Ps ofvalue capture— paywall, pricing & packaging, payments, promotions — focus on the strategic elements crucial for monetizing a subscription app. Paywall strategies should, as well as adopt general best practices, be tightly aligned with the nature of the app; pricing & packaging perhaps offer the greatest leverage for later-stage apps; payments is about an awareness of alternative payment methods and ensuring you have a clear and transparent payment flow; and promotions should be thoughtful and targeted.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Founder and CEO of Elemental Growth, an advising consultancy focused on helping app businesses unlock their potential.

🔁 Phil developed the Subscription Value Loop, a framework for understanding how to maximize growth in consumer app businesses.

💡 “If you don't have a repeatable value prop that can sustain long-term retention, and your primary growth loop is paid ads, that's where you see a graveyard of companies that have just completely failed.”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources:

Companies Phil has helped:

Episode Highlights:

[0:44] From consultant to growth guru: Phil’s journey into the subscription growth world began with mission-driven app businesses like Quizlet.

[5:25] What you need to know to grow: Any quantitative growth model will be “wrong”… but you’ll learn so much building one, you should still do it.

[8:30] The Subscription Value Loop: A framework for identifying product-market fit, building a remarkable solution, and investing profits into shoring up your competitive advantage.

[13:48] The 40% rule:Determine product-market fit by how disappointed customers would be if they could no longer use your app.

[23:05] Perfecting the elevator pitch:A great app onboarding experience is snappy, immersive, and packs a punch.

[33:32] Avoid churn: Build repeatable experiences designed to bring users back again and again.

[38:24] Go viral: Find out how to get and keep your users talking.

[45:37] Organic is healthier: In today’s crowded (and post-ATT) app stores, paid ads can’t realistically be your primary growth lever.

[50:22] Keep the engine running: Balancing how much value you capture versus provide can be a challenge — especially when it comes to free users.

[1:11:12] The price is right: How to determine the optimal packaging and pricing for your app.

On the podcast: Profitably scaling TikTok ads, price optimization, and what the team learned from burning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Instagram ads.

Top Takeaways

📈 Use Micro-Influencers for Early Growth: Niche influencers with between 10k-100k followers provide a direct source to a highly relevant audience. Ladder incentivized Instagram influencers, while the app was in a very early stage, by offering a revenue share; this reinforced the collaborative nature of the partnership and made it financially viable for Ladder. (00:02:39)

💲Adapt Your Pricing Based on Your Core User: Be adaptable with your pricing model based on customer research and feedback. Ladder shifted from a higher price point to a lower one as they learnt more about what value proposition was for their core users. To reach this conclusion, they surveyed their users and analyzed the data using Van Westendorp's pricing analysis. (00:19:36)

🕺🏽Maximize TikTok by Tailoring Your Content: Whereas on Instagram you’re gradually building up an audience, on TikTok you should assume posts are reaching a unique audience every time. This means content on TikTok needs to be made for TikTok — it needs to either entertain or educate, edited in the TikTok style, and should work in isolation without prior knowledge. (00:41:04)

🕸️Using a Web Funnel to Optimize Ad Spend: Ladder efficiently targets the right TikTok audience by directing them to a web quiz. This strategy quickly reveals user preferences, bypassing longer conversion funnels. By embedding pixels in quiz questions, they gain real-time insights into ad performance, enabling rapid optimization of ad spend. (00:49:38)

🪜 Building a Retention Mechanism within the App: By building your product around retention metrics, you’ll naturally build a retentive product. For Ladder, its use of team chats are wildly popular, creating accountability and motivation in its users. And because these social elements drive so much consistency and retention, they work hard on driving users to these chats as quickly as possible. (01:04:49)

About Greg Stewart

📱CEO and Founder of Ladder, a fitness app dedicated to providing the world's best strength training plan from the world's best coaches, every single day.

💪 Greg took Ladder from zero to a million dollars in ARR with a zealous early focus on product iteration.

💡 “As a consumer business, I have learned that there is no muscle more important than growth — investing in growth, product-side growth, [and] retention. To have those learnings and that dial being controlled outside the building now makes no sense whatsoever to me.”

👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter

Links & Resources

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Episode Highlights

[0:54] Covid obstacles: Ladder launched during the pandemic but was initially geared toward gym goers. Early UA wasn’t about focus on revenue, but on product iteration to validate product-market fit.

[4:35] Loyal followings: Instagram microinfluencers were a key part of Ladder’s early strategy for driving UA — aiming for “perfect alignment” with fitness coaches.

[8:34] Onboarding: Ladder had a specific method for recommending programming based on lead source.

[12:41] From influencer to team member: The right partners were a fundamental part of Ladder’s success, not as a creator or tool-based platform but as a consumer business.

[16:46] Hardcore product iteration: Greg and his team built a set of tools for coaches after they hit a million dollars in ARR.

[22:54] Honest ad lessons: Instead of focusing on ad optimization and efficiency, Ladder asked how to tell the right stories to the right people.

[24:40] Decreasing price: The team went deep on analysis before lowering the price, with a single-minded commitment to Ladder as a customer-based business.

[30:35] New Year’s resolutions: A lack of growth following their best month ever mobilized Ladder to create a framework leading to effective growth loops.

[34:07] TikTok tactics: With diminishing returns from their Instagram efforts, Greg and his team decided to forge a new path via TikTok, which ultimately paid off.

[39:20] Money where your mouth is: “Organic is the best indication of winning content,” Greg says. But engaging content needs an effective CTA. The roundabout but telling answer is to understand your customer and provide value rather than paying too much attention to acquisition or monetization.

[48:29] CTAs that work: To reel them in, be upfront and direct to customers — and offer verifiable results.

[49:56] Hacking algorithms: Web quizzes are winners for identifying buyer personas, driving a critical move for managing spend.

[57:05] Bye-bye, LTV:CAC: Payback period is much easier to grapple with than variables that are out of the control of the team, helping Ladder to iterate on its annual offering thanks to a good handle on retention.

[1:05:06] High retention: Relentless focus on the customer’s view and experience is the key to driving UA and retention.

[1:14:56] Skeptical prerogative: Rather than building copycats and raising money, ensure there’s a clear differentiator around which the entire business is built. That way lies growth and scaling.