The Dead Can't Sue

HELP! We are doing a listener survey and we want to hear from you. It's your turn to tell us what you really think - click here and complete the short survey.  The White Australia Policy seems to be the spectre haunting many episodes of our podcast/Australian history. This week we meet Daisy Kwok, just one Chinese Australian whose life was changed by one of the world's worst immigration policies.    Born in Sydney in 1909 in the lap of luxury, Daisy and her family leave Australia, fleeing racism but also chasing further riches in Shanghai in the 1920s, the ‘Paris of the East’.  There Daisy becomes an it-girl of the bustling cosmopolitan boom town before things come crashing down (can you hear the clap of thunder of the communist revolution in the distance?).  SOURCES  Kwok, Daisy. Shanghai Daisy: The Autobiography of Daisy Kwok. Edited by Tess Johnston and Graham Earnshaw. Hong Kong: Earnshaw Books, 2019.  Brown, Jeremy, and Paul G. Pickowicz, eds. Dilemmas of Victory: The Early Years of the People’s Republic of China. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2007.  Chen, Danyan. Shanghai Princess: Her Survival with Pride & Dignity. New York: Better Link Press, 2010.  Fitzgerald, Shirley. Red Tape, Gold Scissors: The Story of Sydney’s Chinese. Sydney: Halstead Press, 2008  Henriot, Christian, and Wen-hsin Yeh  In the Shadow of the Rising Sun: Shanghai under Japanese Occupation. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2004.  Loy-Wilson, Sophie. “Daisy Kwok’s Shanghai: Life in China before and after 1949.” In Locating Chinese Women: Historical Mobility between China and Australia, edited by Kate Bagnall and Julia T. Martínez. Hong Kong: Hong Kong University Press, 2021.  Loy-Wilson, Sophie. Australians in Shanghai: Race, Rights and Nation in Treaty Port China. London: Routledge, 2017.  Listen to the RN Earshot episode about Daisy  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

HELP! We are doing a listener survey and we want to hear from you. It's your turn to tell us what you really think - click here and complete the short survey.  Sharpen your knives and joins us as we dissect the recipe for Joh Bjelke-Petersen's political magic and figure out how he held onto the premiership for decades, despite his truly staggering corruption.  Then we dine out on Joh’s downfall (could the Fitzgerald Inquiry report be the read of 1987?!), before asking whether Joh really deserves his reputation as Australia's number one political villain.  Plus, Leigh comes for the fourth estate (hey, that's us!).  SOURCES  Bjelke-Petersen, Joh. The Joh Tapes on Leadership. Interviews produced by Richard Lancaster and Barry Martin. Seven-part video oral-history collection. Accession 720849. John Oxley Library, State Library of Queensland, Brisbane.  Bjelke-Petersen, Joh. Don’t You Worry about That! The Joh Bjelke-Petersen Memoirs. North Ryde, NSW: Angus & Robertson, 1990.  Queensland. Commission of Inquiry into Possible Illegal Activities and Associated Police Misconduct. Report of a Commission of Inquiry Pursuant to Orders in Council. Chaired by G. E. Fitzgerald. Brisbane: Queensland Government Printer, 1989.   Megarrity, Lyndon. “The Lion and the Fox: Whitlam, Bjelke-Petersen and the Queensland Electorate, 1961–1975.” ANU Historical Journal II, no. 3 (2022): 23–52  Robinson, Shirleene. “Homophobia as Party Politics: The Construction of the ‘Homosexual Deviant’ in Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s Queensland.” Queensland Review 17, no. 1 (2010): 29–45  Walter, James. “Johannes Bjelke-Petersen: ‘The Populist Autocrat.’” In The Premiers of Queensland, edited by Denis Murphy, Roger Joyce, Margaret Cribb, and Rae Wear, St Lucia, QLD: University of Queensland Press, 2003.  Wear, Rae. “‘Never-Ending Story’: Public Accountability and Public Administration Reform in Queensland since 1989.” Queensland Review 18, no. 2 (2011): 175–89  Wear, Rae. Johannes Bjelke-Petersen: The Lord’s Premier. St Lucia, QLD: University of Queensland Press, 2002.  Whitton, Evan. The Hillbilly Dictator: Australia’s Police State. Crows Nest, NSW: ABC Enterprises, 1989.  Williams, Paul D. “Leaders and Political Culture: The Development of the Queensland Premiership, 1859–2009.” Queensland Review 16, no. 1 (2009): 15–34  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Queensland's longest-serving premier is basically the bogeyman of Australian politics, a police-loving proto-Trump 'hillbilly dictator' the Sunshine State is still recovering from.  This week we retrace Joh’s rise from fail son to peanut farmer, and finally to the highest office in Queensland.   Plus... Joh marries a woman named Flo and then begins calling her ‘mum’ (not weird at all).  Also, while you’re here, please do our listener survey.  SOURCES  Bjelke-Petersen, Joh. The Joh Tapes on Leadership. Interviews produced by Richard Lancaster and Barry Martin. Seven-part video oral-history collection. Accession 720849. John Oxley Library, State Library of Queensland, Brisbane.  Bjelke-Petersen, Joh. Don’t You Worry about That! The Joh Bjelke-Petersen Memoirs. North Ryde, NSW: Angus & Robertson, 1990.  Queensland. Commission of Inquiry into Possible Illegal Activities and Associated Police Misconduct. Report of a Commission of Inquiry Pursuant to Orders in Council. Chaired by G. E. Fitzgerald. Brisbane: Queensland Government Printer, 1989.   Megarrity, Lyndon. “The Lion and the Fox: Whitlam, Bjelke-Petersen and the Queensland Electorate, 1961–1975.” ANU Historical Journal II, no. 3 (2022): 23–52  Robinson, Shirleene. “Homophobia as Party Politics: The Construction of the ‘Homosexual Deviant’ in Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s Queensland.” Queensland Review 17, no. 1 (2010): 29–45  Walter, James. “Johannes Bjelke-Petersen: ‘The Populist Autocrat.’” In The Premiers of Queensland, edited by Denis Murphy, Roger Joyce, Margaret Cribb, and Rae Wear, St Lucia, QLD: University of Queensland Press, 2003.  Wear, Rae. “‘Never-Ending Story’: Public Accountability and Public Administration Reform in Queensland since 1989.” Queensland Review 18, no. 2 (2011): 175–89  Wear, Rae. Johannes Bjelke-Petersen: The Lord’s Premier. St Lucia, QLD: University of Queensland Press, 2002.  Whitton, Evan. The Hillbilly Dictator: Australia’s Police State. Crows Nest, NSW: ABC Enterprises, 1989.  Williams, Paul D. “Leaders and Political Culture: The Development of the Queensland Premiership, 1859–2009.” Queensland Review 16, no. 1 (2009): 15–34  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Referendum won, tick. Next up, Faith has a new fight on her hands: one that includes exposing the sugar giants who profited from her father’s abduction and unpaid labour. Watch out.  But first, she must return to the island paradise where her father grew up: Ambrym. What she finds there will spur her on for decades of fighting.  Alecia and Leigh get fired up as they retrace Faith’s staggering journey for justice and connect Australia’s 1800s slave history to farming practices still in operation today.  SOURCES Marilyn Lake, Faith Bandler, Gentle Activist, Allen and Unwin, 2002    Ryan Butta, Blackbirding, Black Inc, 2026  Tracey Banivanuar Mar, Stabilising violence in colonial rule: Settlement and the indentured labour trade in Queensland in the 1870s, Liverpool University Press, 2017  Tracey Banivanuar Mar, Decolonisation and the Pacific: Indigenous Globalisation and the Ends of Empire, Cambridge University Press, 2016     Faith Bandler and Len Fox, The Time was ripe: a history of the Aboriginal-Australian Fellowship (1956-69), 1983  Faith Bandler oral history interview by Carolyn Craig, MLOH 307, Mitchell Library, State Library of New South Wales  Ryan, M. D. J. (2024). ‘A great many of them die’: Sugar, race and cheapness in colonial Queensland. Journal of Agrarian Change, 24(2), e12574. Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Faith Bandler was the daughter of a slave, who became the face of the 1967 referendum and a celebrity in the process. And she did it all while keeping house and raising kids.  Few know her name now, yet Alecia argues that Faith is just as important to the fight for racial justice in Australia as Martin Luther King was to the USA.  Despite many people’s assumptions, Faith was not a First Nations Australian. So how did a South Sea Islander woman, with Indian and Scottish heritage, become the face of one of Australia’s biggest Indigenous causes?    Special thanks to ABC's senior cultural advisor Miriam Corowa and Waskam Emelda Davis.  SOURCES Marilyn Lake, Faith Bandler, Gentle Activist, Allen and Unwin, 2002    Ryan Butta, Blackbirding, Black Inc, 2026  Tracey Banivanuar Mar, Stabilising violence in colonial rule: Settlement and the indentured labour trade in Queensland in the 1870s, Liverpool University Press, 2017  Tracey Banivanuar Mar, Decolonisation and the Pacific: Indigenous Globalisation and the Ends of Empire, Cambridge University Press, 2016     Faith Bandler and Len Fox, The Time was ripe: a history of the Aboriginal-Australian Fellowship (1956-69), 1983  Faith Bandler oral history interview by Carolyn Craig, MLOH 307, Mitchell Library, State Library of New South Wales  Faith Bandler, ASIO file: Mitchell Library 3/55. FCAATSI  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

To rise to stardom, our OG diva needed a rebrand, so she trades her given name - Helen (not exactly giving superstar, no offence to all the Helens) - and takes on Nellie Melba.   In the second part of her story, Nellie becomes the Kylie Minogue of her time, charming the masses in London's best theatres and touring the world drumming up support for the war effort (with some suspicious accidents along the way).  But beneath the glamour, Nellie is in a domestic war of her own. Leigh and Alecia try to make sense of how she faced her own battles, and then how she came to her own sudden, somewhat peculiar death.  Warning: This episode discusses intimate partner violence.  SOURCES Melba, Nellie. Melodies and Memories. London: Thornton Butterworth, 1925.  “Melba Remembers—An Interview with Dame Nellie Melba.” The Home: An Australian Quarterly 3, no. 2 (June 1, 1922)  “Coombe Cottage: Dame Nellie Melba’s Home—Third of a Series of Studies of Notable Australian Homes.” The Australian Home Beautiful: A Journal for the Home Builder 6, no. 6 (June 1, 1928)  “In Dame Nellie Melba’s Paris Home.” The Home: An Australian Quarterly 11, no. 7 (July 1, 1930)  Campbell, Rachel M. “Dame Nellie Melba: Celebrity and the Portrait.” Context: A Journal of Music Research, no. 40 (January 2015): 69–79.  Modjeska, Drusilla, Susan Dermody, and John Docker, eds. Nellie Melba, Ginger Meggs and Friends: Essays in Australian Cultural History. Malmsbury: Kibble Books, 1982.  Blainey, Ann. I Am Melba: A Biography. Melbourne: Black Inc., 2008.  Wainwright, Robert. Nellie: The life and loves of Dame Nellie Melba. Allen and Unwin: Sydney, 2021  Davis, Richard. Nellie Melba: The legend lives. Mile End: Wakefield Press, 2025 Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Opera star Dame Nellie Melba is the face of our $100 note, and the inspiration for the famous Peach Melba dessert. In short she’s an icon – one of Australia’s original divas. But how did she go from young Melbourne tomboy to domestic abuse survivor and then global superstar?  Leigh dives deep on Nellie’s life of tragedy and drama, worthy of its own opera, and proves to Alecia this diva is a little saltier than the sweet pudding named in her honour.  Plus, we explore the origins of long service leave and how Nellie falls flat on her face during her first audition in Europe.  Warning: This episode discusses intimate partner violence.  Melba, Nellie. Melodies and Memories. London: Thornton Butterworth, 1925.  “Melba Remembers—An Interview with Dame Nellie Melba.” The Home: An Australian Quarterly 3, no. 2 (June 1, 1922)  “Coombe Cottage: Dame Nellie Melba’s Home—Third of a Series of Studies of Notable Australian Homes.” The Australian Home Beautiful: A Journal for the Home Builder 6, no. 6 (June 1, 1928)  “In Dame Nellie Melba’s Paris Home.” The Home: An Australian Quarterly 11, no. 7 (July 1, 1930)  Campbell, Rachel M. “Dame Nellie Melba: Celebrity and the Portrait.” Context: A Journal of Music Research, no. 40 (January 2015): 69–79.  Modjeska, Drusilla, Susan Dermody, and John Docker, eds. Nellie Melba, Ginger Meggs and Friends: Essays in Australian Cultural History. Malmsbury: Kibble Books, 1982.  Blainey, Ann. I Am Melba: A Biography. Melbourne: Black Inc., 2008.  Wainwright, Robert. Nellie: The life and loves of Dame Nellie Melba. Allen and Unwin: Sydney, 2021  Davis, Richard. Nellie Melba: The legend lives. Mile End: Wakefield Press, 2025  Woollacott, Angela. To Try Her Fortune in London: Australian Women, Colonialism, and Modernity. Oxford University Press USA, 2001.  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

While the blokes were off on the frontlines of WWI, Miles Franklin used writing as her weapon for changing the world. But was our much-loved matriarch of Australian literature a tad fascist?  In the second part of Miles Franklin's story, we see her go from bush girl to political animal. Starting with Miles’s globe-trotting feminist and labour activist days, to her flirtations with not one but two millionaire brothers, it’s a wild ride.  Warning: This episode discusses sexual assault.  SOURCES  Roe, Jill. Her brilliant career: the life of Stella Miles Franklin. Harvard University Press, 2009  Barnard, Marjorie. Miles Franklin, Hill of Content, 1967  Roe, Jill. Miles Franklin: A Short Biography, 2018  Lapierre, Alexandre. The Very Secretive and Passionate Stella Miles Franklin, Allen & Unwin,  2026  Sheridan, Susan. "Louisa Lawson, Miles Franklin and Feminist Writing, 1888–1901." Australian Feminist Studies 3.7-8 (1988): 29-47  Knowles, Sandra. "The not quite real Miles Franklin: Diaries as performance." Journal of the Association for the Study of Australian Literature 4 (2005): 185-200  Franks, Rachel. "Miles Franklin." State Library of New South Wales, 2022  Knowles, Sandra. The performances of a psychic privacy: waiting for the real Miles Franklin. Diss. UNSW Sydney, 2007  Bird, David. Nazi Dreamtime: Australian Enthusiasts for Hitler's Germany. Anthem Press, 2014  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Miles Franklin’s name is inseparable from Australian literature. She’s a late 1800s bush girl who told a bold story of marriage rejection (My Brilliant Career) that went global. And it continues to captivate audiences today (see: the new Netflix adaptation by the same name).  Everyone read the book as semi-autobiographical, with its protagonist, Sybylla, standing in for a young, flirty Miles. But how much more is there to Miles Franklin’s story beyond this juicy novel?   On this first part of her story, Alecia and Leigh explore the temptations Miles Franklin faced as a writer and a woman, and the many other lives she lived beyond Sybylla’s.  SOURCES Roe, Jill. Her brilliant career: the life of Stella Miles Franklin. Harvard University Press, 2009  Barnard, Marjorie. Miles Franklin, Hill of Content, 1967  Roe, Jill. Miles Franklin: A Short Biography, 2018  Lapierre, Alexandre. The Very Secretive and Passionate Stella Miles Franklin, Allen & Unwin,  2026  Franklin, Miles. My brilliant career. ReadHowYouWant. com, 1986  Sheridan, Susan. "Louisa Lawson, Miles Franklin and Feminist Writing, 1888–1901." Australian Feminist Studies 3.7-8 (1988): 29-47  Franklin, Miles. Childhood at Brindabella: my first ten years. Ett Imprint, 2018  Knowles, Sandra. "The not quite real Miles Franklin: Diaries as performance." Journal of the Association for the Study of Australian Literature 4 (2005): 185-200  Franks, Rachel. "Miles Franklin." State Library of New South Wales, 2022  Knowles, Sandra. The performances of a psychic privacy: waiting for the real Miles Franklin. Diss. UNSW Sydney, 2007  Davies, Kerrie. Miles Franklin Undercover, Sydney: Allen & Unwin, 2025  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Producer: Hannah Jose Video producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Yes, the undercurrent tragically killed our 17th Prime Minister, but were his days in office already numbered?  Leigh argues that Holt was sinking (politically) before he died. So how did the man whose brief tenure as PM included the 1967 Referendum and the start of dismantling the White Australia Policy lose his audience?   We tell you how we think it all went down and give you the final say on the conspiracies that swirl around his disappearance.  Plus, charisma bomb Gough Whitlam makes an appearance thereby flustering Holt and all of us.  SOURCES 'Prime Minister Harold Holt's Briefcase' National Archives M4298,1 'New Prime Minister and His Wife' Australian Women's Weekly Feb 2 1966 Hancock, Ian (2026). 'Harold Edward Hold' in Australia's Prime Ministers edited by Michelle Grattan (New Holland Publishers) Walker, Ross (2022). Harold Holt: Always One Step Further (Latobe University Press) Frame, Tom (2005). The Life and Death of Harold Holt (Allen and Unwin) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Producer: Hannah Jose Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Video Producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

It's fair to say for a lot of Australians, Harold Holt has become more of a meme than a man, let alone Australia's 17th Prime Minister. Yes, he drowned in mysterious circumstances and it's weird there's a pool named after him, but Leigh is more fixated on the less well-known quirks of our dear Harry. For example, did his pretty privilege charm Canberra? Where did his high school nickname 'puss' come from? How did his ex-girlfriend end up marrying his father? And were Zara Holt's kids — born while she was married to another man — actually Harold's? SOURCES 'Prime Minister Harold Holt's Briefcase' National Archives M4298,1 'New Prime Minister and His Wife' Australian Women's Weekly Feb 2 1966 'Speeches by Harold Holt' PM Transcripts: Australian Government, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet Hancock, Ian (2026). 'Harold Edward Hold' in Australia's Prime Ministers edited by Michelle Grattan (New Holland Publishers) Walker, Ross (2022). Harold Holt: Always One Step Further (Latobe University Press) Frame, Tom (2005). The Life and Death of Harold Holt (Allen and Unwin) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Producer: Hannah Jose Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Video Producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Perhaps you're familiar with the phrase "Buckley's chance!". Well, it's thought that it originates from William Buckley, a man who defied all odds to escape his fate as a convict.  Buckley was a brickie from Northern England who ends up being adopted by the Wathaurong people in 1800s Victoria.   Leigh investigates the legend of Buckley’s survival, what the Wathaurong had to gain from him, and how things finally came to a head.   Psst - he also debunks a few famous convict myths we love to tell.  SOURCES  Reminiscences of James Buckley who lived for thirty years among the Wallawarro or Watourong tribes at Geelong Port Phillip, communicated by him to George Langhorne, 1837 (State Library of Victoria, Manuscripts Collection)  Bonwick, James (1856). William Buckley: the wild white man, and his Port Phillip black friends, (Melbourne)  Morgan, John (1856). The life and adventures of William Buckley: thirty-two years a wanderer amongst the Aborigines (Melbourne)  Flannery, Tim (ed) (2017). The Life and Adventures of William Buckley (Melbourne: Text Publishing)  Tipping, Marjorie (1988). Convicts Unbound (Melbourne: Viking O’Neill)  McKinnon, Crystal and McLisky, Clare (2022). “Settler Colonial Emotions... in the William Buckley Story” in The Routledge History of Emotions   Tudehope, CM (1962). “William Buckley” in Victorian Historical Magazine,1962  Tipping, Marjorie (2006). William Buckley (1780–1856), Australian Dictionary of Biography  Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Ross Richardson

Chopper loses his ears but gains an unexpectedly popular literary career, after becoming (sort of) pen pals with crime writer John Silvester. This week, we finish the Chopper tale, figuring out how Chopper managed to reinvent himself from hardened crim to comedian, artist, rapper and… children's book author. Warning: This episode discusses intimate partner violence, racism, transphobia, homophobia and misogyny. SOURCES Shand, Adam (2025). The Real Chopper: The Man Behind the Legend, Inside and Out. Penguin Books Mayr, Andrea. "Chopper: From the inside: Discourses of the 'celebrity' criminal Mark Brandon Read." Language and Literature 21.3 (2012): 260-273. Read, Mark Brandon (1991). Chopper: From the inside. Floradale Productions. Oakes, L. "Guess who's coming in from the cold? An interview with Mark 'Chopper' Read." Psychotherapy in Australia 8.1 (2001): 30-33. Read, Mark Brandon (2002). Hooky the cripple: The grim tale of a hunchback who triumphs (A. Cullen, Illus.). Pluto Press Australia. Cartwright, Garth (2013). Guardian Obituary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/09/mark-chopper-read-obituary Ubaldi, Simone. "Serial thriller." Monthly, The Nov 2013 (2013): 18-19. Jackson, Rochelle (2011). Partners and Crime. Crows Nest, N.S.W: Allen & Unwin (see chapter by Mary-Anne Hodge). Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Brendan O'Neill

Mark Brandon ‘Chopper’ Read (1954-2013) was a notorious Melbourne underworld figure who admitted to murdering four people, right before he died. But as Alecia and Leigh soon discover, he was also a massive liar.   Alecia and Leigh wade through the lies to try to understand how does one become Chopper? How does he get that nickname and that reputation?   Featuring failure and mediocrity, many institutions (mental, military, religious and penal), Alecia’s flawless Chopper impression, Dr Freud, and yes, some grizzly moments of violence.  SOURCES  Shand, Adam (2025). The Real Chopper: The Man Behind the Legend, Inside and Out. Penguin Books  Mayr, Andrea. "Chopper: From the inside: Discourses of the ‘celebrity’ criminal Mark Brandon Read." Language and Literature 21.3 (2012): 260-273.  Read, Mark Brandon (1991). Chopper: From the inside. Floradale Productions.   Oakes, L. "Guess who's coming in from the cold? An interview with Mark 'Chopper' Read." Psychotherapy in Australia 8.1 (2001): 30-33.  Read, Mark Brandon (2002). Hooky the cripple: The grim tale of a hunchback who triumphs (A. Cullen, Illus.). Pluto Press Australia.   Cartwright, Garth (2013). Guardian Obituary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/09/mark-chopper-read-obituary  Ubaldi, Simone. "Serial thriller." Monthly, The Nov 2013 (2013): 18-19.  Jackson, Rochelle (2011). Partners and Crime. Crows Nest, N.S.W: Allen & Unwin (see chapter by Mary-Anne Hodge).    Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Brendan O’Neill

Tilly Devine (1900-1970) was a founding mother of Sydney's underbelly, and, as NSW police commissioner Norman Allan simply said: "She was a villain, but who am I to judge her?" Luckily Leigh and Alecia love to judge. Beyond the rivals, razor blades and racketeering, they ask: Was Tilly the original girl (mob) boss? Why did she shoot her fiancé a few months before their wedding? (Yes, the marriage still went ahead.) And while we're here, what drives our national fixation with outlaws like Tilly? Show sources: Matilda Mary (Tilly) Devine (1900–1970), Daily Mirror Sydney, 24 November 1970, p 9  Kay Saunders, Notorious Australian Women (ABC Books, 2013) Nancy Cushing 'The Long History of Australian Gangs' in A History of Crime in Australia (Routledge, 2023) Judith Allen, 'Devine, Matilda Mary (Tilly) (1900–1970)', Australian Dictionary of Biography, National Centre of Biography, Australian National University Anna Clark, Gabrielle Kemmis and Tamson Pietsch, My Darlinghurst (NewSouth, 1st edn, 2024) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound engineering: Brendan O'Neill

Alecia and Leigh sail into the muddy waters of naval history, exploring the key role Indigenous explorer Bungaree played in Matthew Flinders circumnavigation of Australia. Oh, and Flinders's undying love for his cat, Trim.

Matthew Flinders (1774-1814) is best known as the first white guy to circumnavigate (and name!) Australia. But could he perhaps also have been circumnavigating the towering physique of ship surgeon George Bass? Alecia and Leigh do a literal reading of a seemingly steamy letter, written by Flinders to Bass in 1800, and a (potentially) queer reading of the relationship between these chaps with maps. By the end of this two-parter, you won't look at these men the same way. Sources: The Life of Matthew Flinders by Miriam Estensen (2002) Matthew Flinders: The Man Behind the Map by Gillian Dooley (2022) The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders by Ernest Scott (2023) My Own Destroyer: A Biography of Matthew Flinders, Explorer and Navigator by Sidney John Baker (1962) Matthew Flinders, Maritime Explorer of Australia by Kenneth Morgan (2016) Between Sentiment and Sea: The Meaning of Friendship in the Letters of Matthew Flinders by Alecia Simmonds in The Great Circle 38.2 (2016) Friendship, Imperial Violence and the Law of Nations: The Case of Late-Eighteenth Century British Oceania by Alecia Simmonds in The Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History 42.4 (2014) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher are historians, which means they are uniquely qualified to gossip about the dead. They're asking big, nosy questions about the lives of the people who shaped or misshaped Australia, like … Who really chopped off Chopper's ears? Why did they name a swimming pool after the Prime Minister who drowned? And, did our very own Dame Nellie Melba have a mean streak? While each person's history is unique, the one thing they have in common is that they are dead, so conveniently, they can't sue. Episodes dropping weekly from Tuesday, 30 June on ABC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn