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The Way Out Is In

The Way Out Is In

Plum Village

This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion. Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice. "The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change. The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.

125 - A Love Letter to the Vietnameseness – With Special Guest Ocean Vuong (Episode #117)
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  • 125 - A Love Letter to the Vietnameseness – With Special Guest Ocean Vuong (Episode #117)

    If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you! Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This special episode features a deep conversation about Vietnamese identity in the diaspora, led by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu, scholar Nho Tran, and acclaimed novelist Ocean Vuong. The discussion explores Vietnameseness, the complexities of being Vietnamese in the West, and the challenges of maintaining cultural identity while adapting to new environments. The three speakers reflect on their personal journeys; the role of Buddhism in shaping their understanding of identity; the need to reject binary thinking and embrace the multifaceted nature of Vietnamese identity; the practice of joy; communal healing; the significance of filial piety; the role of language and tradition in preserving cultural heritage; honoring one’s roots while allowing for personal growth; and more.With an intro by Jo Confino and a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources  Ocean Vuonghttps://www.oceanvuong.com/  Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing   The Plum Village Traditionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition  The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95  The Way Out Is In: ‘Roots and Renewal (Episode #91)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/roots-and-renewal-episode-91 The Way Out Is In: ‘Spiritual Friendship (Episode #90)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/spiritual-friendships-episode-90  Maya Angelouhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou  Hoa Nguyenhttps://www.hoa-nguyen.com/  Édouard Glissanthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_Glissant  Sarah Ahmedhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Ahmed  Paris by Nighthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_by_Night  The white gazehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gaze  Chinua Achebehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinua_Achebe  Paul Celanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Celan  Hayao Miyazakihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki  Nina Simonehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Simone  On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeoushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Earth_We%27re_Briefly_Gorgeous  Quotes “The first Dharma seal of our practice is, ‘I have arrived, I am home.’ And ‘arrive’, here, means to be with yourself and not feel disconnected from who you are.” “How lucky we are that Thay offered us a practice where there isn’t a demand for perfection, but a demand for presence and a demand for love in all of its manifestations. That is a thing that begins to heal.” “Part of what Buddhism has taught me is to be able to be brave and ferocious enough. I think people don’t understand the ferocity Buddhist practice demands of you. That’s why I love the idea of the wrathful deities – because Buddhism has been commodified in the West as self-help, corporate self-help especially: ‘Go calm down so you can answer more emails efficiently for the corporation.’” “The things that I lean on most, every day, are Buddhist ideas of committing oneself fully with courage. Courage is very different from fearlessness, because fearlessness means there is no fear – but there’s a lot of fear in me. I don’t know about y’all, but, living in this wor

    Thu, 29 Oct 2026 - 2h 02min
  • 124 - Trust in Life (Episode #116)

    If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you! Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the concept of ‘trust in life’. Together, they explore how Buddhist teachings can help us to navigate the tension between accepting life as it is and wanting to control it.The conversation further touches on the challenges of modern life, such as information overload and the tendency to seek quick fixes, and how these can be addressed through mindful practices; the role of suffering in personal growth and the importance of being present with one’s experiences; developing inner trust and understanding; the role of mindfulness, direct experience, and discernment in cultivating trust; the significance of simplicity, listening, and the practice of ‘beginner’s mind’ in spiritual growth; the Buddhist concept of aimlessness; and more. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources  Brother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh  Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing   The Plum Village Traditionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition  The Sun My Hearthttps://www.parallax.org/product/the-sun-my-heart/  Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana   Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths  Ocean Vuonghttps://www.oceanvuong.com/  Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path   The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18   Quotes “Trust in God, but don’t forget to tie up your camel.” “Understanding is love, is peace – because, when we understand suffering, we don’t want to create more suffering.” “If we listen deeply, we can see how many conditions we have to generate the understanding that allows us to have joy and happiness in the present moment.” “As a human being, we all have a spiritual dimension, and it’s not far away. It’s not found in a retreat. It’s not found in a monastery. It is everywhere. It’s in the ultimate dimension, the historical dimension. It’s in the trees. It is us. But we’re not able to activate it – our collective culture doesn’t allow us to tap into that. We have been afraid of being sensitive, of having empathy, and it’s hard to be in a world where we’re not conditionedto be with our feelings.” “Thay said not to bring your intellectual mind into Dharma talks, because it will try to agree or disagree. The intellectual mind will try to consume the understanding, which becomes a blockage to deeper understanding of your deepest potentials.” “In Buddhist Zen Mahayana literature, sometimes we have to be a learner, and sometimes we have to let go of the learning because it’s enough. Just practice. Enjoy the present moment.” “Sometimes we draw a graph and think growth is always going up or being solid. But, sometimes, growth is knowing that we’re suffering but not being carried away by it – just being present and holding it and listening to it.”

    Thu, 15 Oct 2026 - 1h 32min
  • 123 - Asking for Help (Episode #115)

    If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you! Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the difficulty of asking for help, exploring the cultural and personal barriers that can prevent people from seeking assistance. They emphasize the importance of recognizing indirect requests for help, and the need for compassion and presence when one is asked for help; the role of community and nature in providing support; and the necessity of self-forgiveness and self-care.The conversation underscores collective responsibility for addressing societal issues, and the power of shared vulnerability in fostering deeper connections. The hosts also share practical steps, from both teachings and their own lives. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources  Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBrother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh  Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing   The Plum Village Traditionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition  Wake Up Retreat 2026https://plumvillage.org/articles/wake-up-retreat-2026-am-i-good-enough  The Four Mantras of Lovehttps://plumvillage.org/gems/event/The-Four-Mantras-of-Love-V2DFQvyDMgD3NEx7GTKfXz  European Institute of Applied Buddhismhttps://www.eiab.eu/  Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana  The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89‘Beginning Anew’https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/beginning-anew/  The Way Out Is In: ‘True Love: Practicing in Relationships (Episode #31)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/true-love-practicing-in-relationship-episode-31  Quotes “Because we are alive, everything is possible.” “Unfortunately, as humans, we tend to only recognize that something is really happening when we experience it.” “The beauty of mindfulness and meditation is to welcome the vulnerability in ourselves.” “For someone to ask for help, they need someone to be compassionate.” “When you can listen deeply, you can hear what the other person is not saying.” “Asking for help is a leadership skill.” “People think the environment is outside of themselves – but they are the environment.” “We need to turn to ourselves, to take responsibility and to forgive ourselves, and then reach out to people in a way that benefits them. Because, when we ask for help, we give them permission to also experience that.”

    Thu, 01 Oct 2026 - 1h 09min
  • 122 - Paths of Change and Resistance (Episode #114)

    If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you! Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication. Together, they explore the significance and offerings of the Plum Village community – a sanctuary of peace, healing, and mindfulness, in stark contrast to the fast-paced, consumer-driven world outside.  The three speakers further discuss the importance of a physical environment for spiritual practice, where individuals can reconnect with their true selves; the value of community living, where monastics share a collective career and work towards the flourishing of the community rather than individual success; the relevance of the five mindfulness trainings, which serve as ethical guidelines for personal and societal transformation; and much more. The conversation also touches upon the need for support to maintain and expand the Plum Village facilities, the importance of generosity, and the impact of supporting engaged monastic communities.  Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources  Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing   Plum Village Traditionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition  The Bodhisattva vowhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow  The Five Mindfulness Trainingshttps://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings  The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainingshttps://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings  Es Devlinhttps://esdevlin.com/  Rebecca Solnithttps://www.rebeccasolnit.net/  The Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67  The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95  Quotes “Plum Village emerged from our teacher’s vision of how the world could look and feel different from mainstream society. From the beginning, Plum Village has been a community of resistance. We could even call it a community of resilience: a physical environment that holds different values to the mainstream consciousness. We can all recognize those values. It might be unbridled capitalism, craving, consumerism, violence, or excesses of different kinds that we see in our immediate lives, around us, and in the economic and labor systems that we’re a part of. The vision for Plum Village was, ‘What if we create a physical environment that models entirely different values?’ Embodying those values is the resistance. For example, embodying peace, harmony, collectiveness, and community rather than individualism.” “We need to reclaim our sovereignty from the machines of our creation.” “Plum Village is holding an environment of peace and healing and freedom from the rat race; freedom from the world of technological overwhelm.” “At a retreat, we are invited into a space of sharing our generosity in presence. We’re not sitting for ourselves: we’re sitting for the collective. When we are taking care of our emotions, we’re also taking care of the emotions of the collective, because we start to see the interbeing of the individual and the collective, their interconnectedness.” “We

    Thu, 17 Sep 2026 - 1h 28min
  • 121 - You Are Already the Person You Want to Become – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #113)

    If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you! Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This is our third live recording of the podcast made in London, England, in July, 2026, before a sold-out audience. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined on stage by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to explore the idea that the answers to life’s issues are often found within ourselves, rather than externally, and that we are already the person we want to become.  The discussion includes reflections on the challenges of recognizing one’s own worth and the societal pressures that contribute to feelings of inadequacy; how mindfulness, presence, and community are essential in cultivating self-acceptance and personal transformation; the role of kindness in daily life; the power of the present moment in fostering personal and collective change; practicing self-compassion; and much more.  The conversation concludes with questions from the audience answered by the three speakers. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   Plum Village UK:https://plumvillage.uk/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources  Sister True Dedicationhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem   Koanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan  Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing   Plum Village Traditionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition  Meredith Monkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_Monk The Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67  The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95 Quotes “Given everything that’s happening in the world, the person I’d like to become is this impossible person – a person who can find an answer to heal and stop all of the suffering, all of the injustice, all of the violence. We know that the pain and discomfort we feel in ourselves is not only a personal, individual discomfort; we’re feeling the pain of the world, and that’s reflected in our bodies and in our feelings. And so, when we can’t accept ourselves, or think we’re not enough, it’s also because we’re not enough in the face of all of this. How could we be?” “All the suffering of the world is reflected in us in a really concrete way: we watch something on a screen and we have a bodily response. We feel the anxiety, we feel the tension. We felt the heat in the heat wave last week. And that’s doing something to us at an emotional level; a kind of existential fear is triggered. So that suffering is really visceral in us. But what’s really interesting is that there’s also the other side of this: if the suffering of the world is reflected in our bodies and in our minds, the beauty of the word is also there in us.” “I understand how hard it is to not feel enough in the face of what I would like to do, or need to do, to respond to the world. But, at the same time, all of the goodness of the world is refracted and expressed in unique ways in each one of us. For me, that’s the key to unlocking the door to accepting myself.” “Coming home to oneself and embracing the pain and the suffering is the fi

    Thu, 03 Sep 2026 - 2h 10min
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