Uncensored CMO

Jessica Jensen, Chief Marketing Officer at LinkedIn, joins Jon Evans for a practical masterclass on what actually works on the platform now. Beginning with a review of Jon’s own profile, they cover the route to becoming a Top Voice, the changing role of B2B creators and how brands can work with them credibly.

They also explore the formats that are earning attention, whether collaborator posts genuinely work, and how buyers use LinkedIn to validate the people and companies they choose to work with.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:35 - Jon’s LinkedIn review
11:34 - How do you get a LinkedIn Top Voice
13:23 - The evolution of B2B content creators
14:34 - How brands can work best with creators
16:53 - How LinkedIn are battling AI slop
19:07 - Do collaborator posts on LinkedIn work?
20:02 - What formats work best on LinkedIn in 2026
22:16 - How are B2B buyers making buying decisions on LinkedIn
25:08 - Why LinkedIn is so important for LLMs
25:49 - What jobs is AI creating
29:27 - The best advice Jessica has ever recieved

Thank you to System1 for sponsoring Uncensored CMO. Find out more about Test Your Ad Screen here:
https://system1group.com/

Spotify has become one of the world’s most distinctive brands, but what can marketers learn from the way it uses sound, culture and creativity to build emotional connection?

Bridget Evans, Spotify’s Global Head of Advertising Business Marketing, joins Jon Evans to explain why audio remains an underused marketing opportunity, and how brands can build an audio strategy people do more than simply hear: they remember it.

They discuss the return of the jingle, why taste may become an even more important differentiator in the age of AI, and whether younger audiences really have shorter attention spans, or simply higher standards for what deserves their attention. Bridget also shares how Spotify markets to Gen Z, the enduring impact of Spotify Wrapped, and why the company invests so heavily in Cannes Lions.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:22 - Some things people might not know about Spotify
02:42 - Is audio the most underrated channel?
05:15 - Do people trust audio more?
06:58 - Why taste will become the differentiator in the age of AI
07:44 - How audio branding helps emotion
09:11 - How to get your audio strategy right
10:09 - Why we need to bring back more jingles
12:44 - How Spotify markets to Gen Z
15:59 - Do younger generations actually have shorter attention spans?
17:46 - The opportunity for marketers in audio and podcasting
20:00 - How do we make B2B marketing not boring
26:24 - The impact of Spotify Wrapped
30:53 - Why Spotify invest so much in Cannes Lions
34:37 - How Spotify judge the success of their Cannes
36:49 - 3 things to make B2B marketing better
39:42 - Whats the best advice Bridget has ever been given

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This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

The media landscape has changed faster than most marketing plans have. Evan Shapiro, known as the Media Cartographer for his widely used maps of the media ecosystem, joins Uncensored CMO to explain where attention is really going, which channels marketers are overvaluing, and where the best opportunities may now lie.

They assess the relative value of TV, YouTube, podcasts, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn and creators, asking a deceptively simple question: are marketers spending in line with how people actually consume media?

Evan also explores the shift of power towards consumers, why employee-generated content could become a major force, and where job losses are likely to hit the media industry next. They discuss the rise of founder-led media, the opaque problem of ad fraud, and what Evan has learned from building his own podcast.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:42 - Intro to Evan Shapiro
01:43 - Evan’s path into media
03:38 - How to entertain people with keynote speeches
06:37 - The biggest changes in the media universe: the shift to the consumer
10:44 - Where is attention being placed in 2026?
14:20 - The data on attention
17:22 - Overvalued vs Undervalued media
17:57 - TV: Undervalued or Overvalued?
22:29 - YouTube: Undervalued or Overvalued?
25:35 - Why Employee Generated Content is going to be huge
27:53 - Creators: Undervalued or Overvalued?
30:06 - Podcasts: Undervalued or Overvalued?
31:30 - TikTok: Undervalued or Overvalued?
31:57 - Instagram: Undervalued or Overvalued?
32:37 - Facebook: Undervalued or Overvalued?
33:51 - LinkedIn: Undervalued or Overvalued?
35:43 - How will the media landscape change in the next 12 months
39:53 - Where are job losses being felt in media
43:33 - The rise of founders
46:17 - Ad fraud in the media ecosystem
50:30 - Evan’s lessons from running his podcast
56:57 - The best advice Evan has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Karen Blackett is one of the most respected leaders in marketing and media. As the former UK President of WPP and former CEO of GroupM UK, she has led through industry change, crisis and growth at the highest level.

In this marketing leadership masterclass, Karen shares the principles that have shaped her career: why great teams need diverse perspectives and healthy tension; why leaders must say what they really think; and how to make better decisions without mistaking consensus for alignment.

She reflects on leading GroupM UK through COVID, how she approaches recruitment, and the small meeting habit that helps ensure the most important conversations actually happen. Karen also discusses the evolving client-agency relationship, what the future holds for the creative industry, and the challenge of rebranding Barbados.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:51 - Karen’s new leadership podcast
02:03 - The surprising thing about leadership
05:25 - Why we need to change our view of leadership
05:58 - The standout leaders from Karen’s career
11:20 - Karen’s leadership lessons from running WPP
15:55 - The importance of diverse perspectives
17:34 - The importance of saying what you really think
20:28 - How to approach decision making
22:53 - How to approach recruitment
25:34 - Why you need healthy tension in a team
28:46 - Should we banish the voice note?
30:32 - Karen’s big covid turnaround story
34:57 - Why Karen never does “AOB” at the end of meetings
37:25 - The positive side of COVID for Jon
40:06 - How to foster a strong client agency relationship
44:59 - The future of the creative industry
48:42 - Rebranding Barbados
50:51 - What is the freedom of the city
51:48 - The best advice Karen has ever received

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

What happens when a CMO brings the discipline of P&G, private equity and fintech together?

Vineet Mehra, CMO of Chime, joins Jon to explain how the challenger bank has disrupted one of the most established industries in the world - and why modern marketing leaders need to become more fluent in the language of commercial value.

Vineet shares what marketers can learn from private equity, how to position investment with a CFO, and the financial metrics he watches most closely. He also unpacks the constant balancing act between long-term brand building and short-term performance: not treating them as opposing forces, but connecting both to sustainable growth. They also discuss where AI is genuinely creating return, how marketers can avoid becoming commoditised, and the skills CMOs will need as AI reshapes the profession.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:21 - Vineet’s background at P&G
04:51 - What marketers can learn from working in Private Equity
07:50 - What is Chime Bank?
09:02 - The strategies that Chime used to disrupt the banking industry
13:46 - Advice on how to position marketing to the CFO
17:00 - What financial metrics is Vineet most focused on?
19:40 - How Vineet combines long term and short term marketing
23:59 - Are we in a golden age for marketing?
26:59 - How Vineet is getting the biggest return on his AI investment
31:13 - How to stop AI commoditising marketers
36:09 - What skills will a CMO need in an AI-first future
38:58 - How to see AI as an opportunity not a threat
40:13 - Why Vineet is on the Effie’s board
42:15 - Why Vineet spends time building his personal brand on LinkedIn
46:00 - What’s the bst advice Vineet has ever received?

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

AI is rapidly changing how people search, shop and discover new brands. So what does that mean for marketers?

Sophie Neary has spent the past few years inside Google, giving her a front-row seat to some of the biggest shifts in consumer behaviour and advertising. In this episode, she joins Jon to explore what she's learned, the assumptions marketers still get wrong about Google, and the surprising ways consumers are already using AI.

They discuss how brands can show up in AI-powered search, the evolving relationship between advertisers and creators, how to make the most of the crucial golden quarter, and what AI commerce could mean for the future of shopping.

Plus, as AI becomes capable of doing more of the work, Sophie and Jon ask a bigger question: which uniquely human skills will become even more valuable to marketers?

This episode is an advertisement feature brought to you by Google.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:12 - What has Sophie learned in the past few years at Google?
03:07 - CMO lessons from being inside Google
05:11 - What assumption marketers have about Google would Sophie challenge
08:07 - A surprising consumer pattern with AI
11:17 - How brands can show up in AI searches
18:56 - How advertisers can collaborate with creators?
22:09 - How Sophie uses her Google Fitbit Air
24:18 - How to optimise the golden quarter
28:08 - How important will AI commerce be in the future?
30:36 - get them to check this section
34:01 - The most uncensored question for Sophie Neary
37:44 - Where will human skills count in the age of AI?
45:26 - The best advice Sophie has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Dr Margaret Heffernan is one of the world's leading thinkers on uncertainty, leadership and creativity. A bestselling author, entrepreneur and former CEO, her latest book, Embracing Uncertainty, challenges one of the biggest assumptions in business that the future can, and should, be predicted.

In this episode, Margaret explains why forecasting often fails, where great ideas really come from, and why spending more time with uncertainty can actually make us better leaders and marketers. We discuss the dangers of relying too heavily on data, the surprising habits of highly creative people, and why walking might be one of the best things you can do for your thinking.

Timestamps

00:00 - Trailer
01:09 - Why pick uncertainty as a topic
05:31 - Why some companies shouldn’t forecast
09:04 - Why smart people are wasting time on forecasting
14:41 - The problem with having too much data
19:07 - Predictability only happens at scale
24:41 - Where do ideas come from?
27:19 - Why the Chief Economist of the Bank of England goes on walks
30:29 - Are we becoming too left brain dominant?
32:32 - The problem with AI
36:10 - Is AI killing our ability to think?
41:17 - How to make good ideas happen
44:11 - The power of surprise
46:15 - The improvisers paradox
49:31 - The correlation between the artists mind and the entrepreneur’s mind
51:57 - What human skills do we need to survive?
58:43 - The best advice Margaret has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Ali Payne, CMO of Heineken, joins us to discuss how one of the world's most iconic beer brands became Creative Brand of the Year at Cannes Lions - and what it takes to keep a 150-year-old brand feeling fresh.

From being the "Official Beer of Soccer" as a non-sponsor of the FIFA World Cup to reviving the legendary "Most Interesting Man in the World" campaign, Ali shares how Heineken balances long-term brand building with cultural relevance. We explore what it takes to get an entire organisation behind bold creative ideas, the role of sport in Heineken's marketing strategy, and how brands like Birra Moretti continue to grow through innovation.

Timestamps

00:00 - Trailer
00:56 - World Cup fever for the USA and Heineken
02:51 - Jumping on cultural moments
04:25 - Becoming the official beer of soccer (unofficially)
06:50 - How non sponsors got more coverage than sponsors for the World Cup
10:18 - How to manage a 150 year old brand
12:31 - Winning Cannes creative brand of the year
14:46 - Getting the wider business on board with creative work
17:06 - Ali’s favourite Cannes Lions winner
18:38 - Bringing back Dos Equis most interesting man
22:58 - The success of Birra Moretti
24:49 - Heineken’s sports sponsorship strategy
28:32 - How are Heineken bringing new people into the category
29:56 - The ingredients for a successful innovation
33:12 - Heineken’s partnership with Heinz
37:08 - How great CMOs keep creativity alive
40:11 - What makes a great CMO?
41:58 - What’s the best advice you’ve ever recieved?

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Najoh Tita-Reid, former Chief Growth Officer at Mars Petcare, joins us to discuss why she made the unusual decision to step away from one of the biggest roles in marketing to embark on a self-described "learning safari", immersing herself in the world of AI and exploring what it means for the future of business.

In this conversation, Najoh shares why she believes too many organisations are using AI purely to drive efficiency, when its greatest opportunity lies in unlocking growth. We explore how AI is changing creativity, leadership and the role of the CMO, why marketers risk becoming tacticians instead of strategic business leaders, and what today's CEOs really expect from marketing.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:57 - Why Najoh left Mars
02:18 - Why F1 is the perfect metaphor for AI in 2026
05:18 - Using AI for growth vs efficiency
08:01 - The impact AI is having on creativity
09:17 - Why AI is the colonisation of inefficiency
16:21 - Are we at risk of becoming tacticians and not strategy leaders?
18:52 - Does the CEO understand your role?
22:40 - Can AI actually delivery higher efficiency?
25:00 - What’s the secret to delivering growth
28:24 - What having a different job title gives you permission to do
33:11 - They key leadership skills for a great CMO
34:02 - Why great CMOs are accountable for making change
36:06 - Lessons from Najoh’s biggest failure
40:01 - The difference between culture in the UK and USA
44:09 - What Najoh has learnt on her learning safari
49:47 - The best advice Najoh has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Brent Smart is one of the most respected marketers in the world. After spending more than 20 years in advertising, he made the rare move from agency life to become CMO of NRMA Insurance. Brent's most recent role as CMO of Telstra, Australia's largest telecommunications company, he helped transform the brand through bold, distinctive and highly effective marketing.

In this episode, Brent shares the principles behind his approach to creativity, from selling big ideas inside large organisations and drawing on academic marketing frameworks to building a culture where great work can thrive. We discuss the campaigns that defined his career, including Telstra's viral "Better on a Better Network" campaign, why humour and surprise remain powerful competitive advantages, and the unique agency model that helped Telstra consistently produce standout work.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:03 - Why Brent left Telstra
02:31 - Why Brent moved in house after 20 years agency side
05:41 - How to sell a creative idea into a big organisation
11:01 - The academic frameworks to create great marketing
12:16 - Why you should look at your brands heritage
14:02 - The most successful campaign Brent did for NRMA
17:33 - How Brent won a Grand Effie
21:13 - How Brent transformed Telstra’s brand marketing
26:08 - The Telstra Walk - the viral campaign
32:39 - Using humour to cut through
35:00 - The power of surprise and consistency
37:41 - The unique agency model that helped Telstra create cuthrough work
40:02 - Why craft is so important in 2026
42:44 - How to build a creative culture
47:11 - How to be a great CMO

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Bec Darley, CMO of Vodafone Australia, joins us to discuss what it really takes to grow a challenger brand in one of the world's toughest telecoms markets.

From competing against an entrenched duopoly to building distinctive campaigns with Ali Wong, Bec shares how Vodafone has embraced its challenger mindset rather than trying to imitate the market leaders. We explore why marketers need to understand far more than advertising, from unit economics and legal to customer experience and organisational change, and why the best marketing leaders are, ultimately, business leaders.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:54 - Who is Bec Darley?
03:31 - Taking on roles beyond marketing to make you a better marketer
05:38 - Why the history of duopolies in Australia makes being a challenger tough
08:53 - How does Vodafone take on the giants as a challenger
12:55 - Leaning into your disadvantage
16:01 - Vodafone’s commercials with Ali Wong
18:37 - The importance of legal for marketing
21:08 - When taking risks backfires - getting banned
24:19 - Focusing on mental availability
26:40 - Are we losing the ability to be creative while hunting efficiency
29:28 - Understanding the unit economics of the business
34:28 - How to manage a portfolio of brands
36:18 - Why you need to be customer first
38:51 - The best marketers move beyond marketing
40:24 - How to make change in a company
43:46 - Embracing discomfort and failing fast
46:23 - Bec’s advice to all young marketers

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Jonathan Kerr, CMO of Auto & General, joins us to explore how one of Australia's most successful challenger brands has built sustained growth by combining strong marketing fundamentals with relentless execution.

From creating a role for himself at Auto & General to helping Budget Direct become one of the country's fastest-growing insurance brands, Jonathan shares why product should always come before growth, how marketers can take greater ownership of the 4 Ps, and what insurance consistently gets right about creativity. We also discuss the power of distinctive brand characters, audio branding, in-house creative teams and a media strategy designed to maximise long-term effectiveness.

Useful links

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:01:41 - How Jonathan found out about Auto and General
00:03:31 - How Jonathan created a new role for himself
00:06:58 - How to balance low price with great product
00:10:36 - Market share growth for Budget Direct
00:12:06 - Focusing on product over growth
00:13:59 - How to control more of the P’s
00:16:51 - Why does insurance produce such creative work?
00:20:52 - The power of compounding work in insurance
00:24:21 - Developing brand characters, and when to kill them off
00:30:08 - The power of audio and jingles
00:34:16 - What’s too silly to be said can be sung
00:36:13 - Why they do so much work in house
00:40:34 - Budget Direct’s unique approach to media buying
00:42:43 - How Jonathan uses AI
00:48:04 - The key challenger brand principles Jonathan has followed
00:50:59 - What makes a successful CMO?
00:52:55 - Do we need to re-educate ourselves on marketing theory?
01:00:27 - The best advice you’ve ever recieved

Pedro Pina, VP of YouTube for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, joins us to explore how YouTube helped create the creator economy and why so many brands are still failing to take full advantage of it.

From the rise of full-time creators to the changing role of YouTube in the media landscape, Pedro explains what makes the platform unique, the metrics that actually matter, and why great content continues to outperform everything else. We also discuss the balance between long-form and Shorts, the "YouTube Confidence Gap" among CMOs, and how brands can build authentic partnerships with creators that drive real business results.

If you're wondering where marketing is heading next, this is a masterclass from one of the people shaping it.

Get the YouTube Confidence Gap Report from Little Dot Studios:
https://info.littledotstudios.com/little-dot-studios-the-youtube-confidence-gap-report

This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:35 - Why YouTube made a creator space in Cannes
03:06 - How Cannes has changed over the past 20 years
06:12 - How many people are paid to be YouTubers
09:39 - The secret of YouTube
11:08 - Who are the biggest creators on YouTube
12:36 - What are the most important metrics on YouTube
14:42 - Why content will always be king on YouTube
15:57 - What makes a succesful YouTuber
19:48 - Is YouTube a broadcaster, streaming platform or social network?
22:36 - How important is short form for creators in 2026
27:24 - The YouTube Confidence Gap
28:56 - What CMOs think about YouTube
29:54 - How to get more confidence in your YouTube strategy
32:53 - The biggest barriers for companies being successful on YouTube
35:00 - How can brands work successfully with creators
39:31 - How can brands be authentic when they work with creators
42:46 - What Pedro wishes CMOs understood better about YouTube
44:14 - The best advice Pedro has ever recieved

Novartis CMO Gail Horwood joins Janet Balis, Managing Director & Senior Partner at BCG, to explore how one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies is redefining healthcare marketing.

Fresh from winning two Cannes Lions, Gail shares how Novartis is proving that creativity can thrive even in one of the most heavily regulated industries. From partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign to convincing stakeholders to embrace bolder ideas, we discuss what it takes to create work that stands out while navigating complex regulations.

The conversation also explores how AI is reshaping both creativity and business transformation, where marketers should focus their efforts, and why the biggest opportunity for AI isn't just efficiency, but unlocking growth.

This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here:
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:49 - Jon’s full circle moment with Norvatis
01:39 - Novartis’ journey to two Cannes Lions
02:54 - Why more people need to walk the work
04:05 - Creating surprising advertising in a heavily regulated category
09:03 - Partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign
10:24 - How to get your company to embrace risky work
16:01 - How to get stakeholders outside of marketing onboard
19:35 - The reaction to the ads after Super Bowl
21:56 - How AI is being used in the service of creativity
27:04 - How Novartis are using AI for creativity
30:27 - How Novartis are rethinking their marketing with AI
32:46 - Where AI is going to be used outside of marketing
35:03 - AI for efficiency vs growth
37:16 - How to deliver leadership change in the age of AI
40:22 - The boring things AI will solve
42:53 - What makes Gail such a good CMO
44:25 - The worst way to evaluate your career success
45:57 - The best advice Gail has ever received

Lara Balazs, CMO of Adobe, joins us to discuss what it takes to lead one of the world's most influential creative brands through a period of enormous change.

From Adobe's presence at Cannes to the rapid rise of AI, Lara shares her vision for the company and why she believes technology should be used in service of creativity, rather than simply to drive efficiency. We explore why creativity matters more than ever in the age of AI, the skills Adobe looks for in marketers, and the traits that separate the most successful CMOs.

Lara also shares the practical leadership principles she uses to run her team, from creating a company plan on a page and harnessing the power of repetition to prioritising progress over perfection and using the “two-way door” approach to make faster decisions.

This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:23 - The most surprising thing about Lara
03:11 - How Adobe have stood out at Cannes
05:50 - What makes an influential CMO?
06:59 - How to manage a business through change
09:54 - Lara’s vision for Adobe
13:33 - Finding inspiration from a brand’s history
15:13 - Where AI has been used in service of creativity
18:03 - AI to enhance creativity vs increasing efficiency
20:42 - Why creativity still matters in the AI age
23:41 - What skillsets does Adobe hire for in marketing?
25:22 - The traits of the most successful CMOs
28:55 - The company plan on a page
30:49 - The power of repitition
32:05 - Progress over perfection at Adobe
33:14 - The two way door approach
37:19 - The best advice Lara has ever recieved

In this episode, Mark Abraham, Managing Director and Senior Partner at BCG, joins Elke Karskens, Head of International Marketing at OpenAI to explore how AI is already transforming marketing and what's coming next. We discuss OpenAI's remarkable growth, the launch of its first advertising campaign, and how marketers can prepare for a future where AI is embedded across every function.

The conversation covers how brands can increase their visibility in ChatGPT, the opportunities created by tools like Codex, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and why the real value of AI isn't just efficiency, it's effectiveness.

This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here:
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:16 - Open AI’s meteoric rise
02:07 - Breakthrough moments for OpenAI
03:04 - How have Open AI scaled so quickly
04:49 - What will be led by humans and what will be led by AI in 5 years
06:09 - Open AI’s impressive first ad campaign
08:32 - Launch of the Open AI advertising platform
13:01 - How brands can rank in ChatGPT
14:44 - How brands can use Codex
17:44 - How do CMOs feel about AI
19:34 - How do you deliver transformation with AI
20:55 - What skillsets are going to be in demand for the future CMO
23:29 - Which brands are using AI well today
24:52 - What can we do with AI in a year from now we can’t do today?
29:45 - Why BCG and Open AI work together
30:53 - What don’t people understand about AI?
35:11 - Efficiency and cost savings vs effectiveness in AI
38:15 - Best advice you’ve ever been given

For years, Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp have been two of the most influential and most opinionated voices in marketing. They've challenged each other's ideas, debated strategy, and helped shape how an entire generation of marketers thinks.

Now, for the first time in more than a decade, at Cannes Lions, they sit down together to answer a simple question: what do they actually agree on?

From How Brands Grow and the 95:5 rule to distinctiveness, the 4 Ps, mass marketing, luxury brands, purpose and AI, this conversation explores the fundamental marketing principles they both believe every marketer should understand.

There are still plenty of disagreements (and more than a few jokes at each other's expense), but this is a rare opportunity to hear two of the industry's biggest thinkers build a shared foundation for modern marketing.

This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:00:40 - Teaser
00:02:08 - Mark Ritson on Champagne
00:03:42 - When did Mark and Byron meet
00:05:36 - Why Byron and Mark are coming together after a decade
00:07:25 - When Jon met Byron
00:08:57 - Is AI more brand centric than humans?
00:11:08 - Mark and Byron’s criticism on their Cannes talk
00:12:49 - The problem with academia
00:13:45 - What do marketers still not understand about How Brands Grow
00:18:06 - You are not the customer
00:20:56 - Distinctiveness vs relative differentiation
00:28:45 - Why we need to control all 4 Ps
00:33:10 - The 95:5 rule
00:39:20 - Why Byron doesn’t like the term “Long Term”
00:42:41 - The role of mass marketing
00:46:40 - How to do mass marketing as a challenger brand
00:53:45 - How long does it take to build a proper brand
00:56:10 - What does Byron think of P&G
00:58:47 - The power of distinctive brand assets
01:03:42 - Why brand anniversaries are pointless
01:04:40 - How luxury brands grow
01:09:16 - The role of purpose
01:16:58 - The dark lord of penetration
01:18:17 - What pet name does Byron have for Mark
01:23:17 - Closing remarks

In this episode, Josh Spanier from Google and Lauren Wiener from BCG join us to discuss how AI is transforming marketing, organisations, and the role of the CMO. From navigating the AI hype cycle to building the right culture for change, they share practical advice for leaders trying to turn AI from a buzzword into a genuine competitive advantage.

We also explore the future skills marketers will need, the changing role of agencies, why marketing should lead AI transformation, and where the industry is likely to be just 12 months from now.

This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here:
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:52 - Where are we in the AI hype cycle
04:48 - How are Google seeing AI impact businesses
06:50 - The difference between the CMOs who are getting it right and wrong
09:05 - The future of marketing in the age of AI
10:48 - The skills of the future CMO
16:41 - Why marketing needs to drive the change
19:18 - Positive examples of AI
24:01 - How do organisations make the change
27:02 - When AI campaigns don’t go so well
29:11 - How AI data will transform marketing
30:13 - Dealing with higher expectations but less resource
35:25 - The culture to enable successful AI transformation
36:55 - The role of agencies in an AI world
38:50 - AI predictions in 12 months
40:23 - The best advice you’ve ever been given
41:52 - Where will marketing be in 12 months

Adam Morgan, founder of eatbigfish and co-creator of The Cost of Dull, joins us to explore why surprise is one of the most powerful tools available to marketers. Drawing on new research unveiled at Cannes Lions, Adam and Jon explain the psychology behind surprise, the science of reward prediction error, and why memorable brands consistently give people more than they expect.

We discuss the different types of surprise, why products need to live up to the expectations created by advertising, and examine some of the best examples of surprise in modern marketing from Aldi to Jaguar and beyond.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:58 - The surprising outcomes of Cost of Dull
06:04 - The genesis of Cost of Dull
09:01 - Why are we talking about surprise?
10:08 - Why the best marketers look outside of marketing
13:42 - What the data says about surprise
15:50 - Reward prediction error
17:26 - Why your product needs to exceed expectations set by your brand
19:59 - The surprising power of giving people more than they expect
21:48 - The two types of surprise
25:00 - Adam’s favourite examples of surprise
26:09 - Jon’s favourite example of surprise
28:20 - Was Jaguar intentionally surprising?
29:39 - Examples of long term surprise
31:50 - Why Aldi are so successful at surprise
34:28 - Why you need a system for your surprise
38:15 - The right balance of surprise
42:12 - When is shock necessary

Suso O'Brien, former CMO of Just Eat, joins us to discuss what the role of the modern CMO really looks like. Drawing on her experience helping scale Just Eat and the findings from a new CMO survey conducted with TikTok, Suso argues that today's marketing leaders need a completely different set of priorities.

We revisit the growth of Just Eat, the success of the iconic “Did Somebody Say…” campaign, and the role celebrity partnerships and sonic branding played in building the brand. But beyond the advertising, Suso shares why CMOs spend surprisingly little time on the work itself, why internal influence matters more than ever, and why managing expectations may be more important than managing brands.

The conversation also explores the lack of marketing representation at the top of organisations, the pressures facing today's CMOs, and Suso's framework for leading people through her five Cs of great management.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
02:52 - The food delivery category in 2016
04:05 - The role marketing played in the growth of Just Eat
05:55 - Does “did somebody say?” translate globally?
07:26 - The celebrity strategy behind Just Eat
09:47 - The power of sonic branding
12:12 - What impact did the campaign have vs other growth levers for Just Eat
14:36 - CMOs rarely spend any time on the work
17:28 - The real 4 Ps of the CMO
19:06 - Discoveries from the CMO survey with TikTok
20:56 - Why the lack of marketing representation at the top of companies is worrying
22:00 - What skills are lacking in an organisation
23:08 - The short term pressure on the CMO
24:34 - How do you make the case to invest in long term
28:20 - The power of compounding creativity
29:04 - The CMO’s role is managing expectations, not brands
30:04 - Why CMO’s need to persuade internal stakeholders
36:10 - The #1 challenge CMO’s face
40:58 - Suso’s hardest challenges as Just Eat CMO
42:40 - Why Suso asked her colleagues for feedback when she left Just Eat
44:17 - 5 C’s of great people management
44:32 - 1: Care
45:30 - 2: Clarity
47:35 - 3. Calling it early
49:12 - 4. The cost of comfort
51:33 - 5: Constant feedback
53:25 - Suso’s advice to future CMOs

Jamie Domenici, CMO of Klaviyo, joins us to discuss why customer experience has become one of the most powerful drivers of growth. Drawing on lessons from nearly a decade at Salesforce and her experience joining Klaviyo just months before its IPO, Jamie shares how great brands create loyalty by obsessing over the customer.

We explore what marketers can learn from customer success teams, why events like Dreamforce are so memorable, and how Klaviyo has repositioned itself while building a competitive moat in an increasingly crowded market.

Jamie also shares her views on AI, the future workforce, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and the difference between good marketing leaders and truly great ones.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:05 - Jamie’s strange first job
02:26 - Best and worst customer experiences
05:56 - The power of a good customer experience
08:45 - Marketing lessons from customer success
11:48 - Marketing lessons from 10 years at Salesforce
13:05 - Why Dreamforce was a great example of good customer experience
14:46 - The key to a great keynote
21:56 - Joining Klaviyo just months before an IPO
24:28 - Repositioning a company
25:45 - How does B2C differ to B2B when it comes to CRM?
28:41 - How Klaviyo are building their moat
30:51 - Where is AI going to have the biggest impact?
32:19 - How are Klaviyo using AI in their product?
34:14 - How AI is going to change the workforce
35:42 - What skills will future CMOs be hiring for?
37:31 - The difference between a good CMO and a great CMO
39:17 - Why Klaviyo invest a lot in events
40:52 - The best advice Jamie has ever received

Anselmo Ramos is one of the most respected creatives in advertising and the co-founder of GUT, the agency behind some of the world's most talked-about campaigns. Built on the belief that brave creativity drives business growth, GUT has quickly become one of the industry's most successful modern agencies.

In this episode, Anselmo shares the story behind founding GUT, the principles that guide the business, and why marketers need to trust their instincts more. We discuss the power of relationships, how to build a great co-founder partnership, and why the biggest challenge often comes after success.

We also explore GUT's approach to pitching, the bravery gap facing modern brands, the role of AI, and the campaigns that have helped define the agency's remarkable rise.

Thank you to our sponsor System1 Group for supporting the show. To find out more, head to:
https://system1group.com

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:44 - Why is the industry obsessed with making rational advertising?
00:04:19 - Why GUT have 68 principles
00:06:27 - Why you need to pay more attention to your GUT
00:09:10 - The GUT agency founding story
00:12:41 - The secret to a successful co-founder relationship
00:14:42 - Lessons from creating a successful agency
00:17:58 - The surprising challenges of growing a successful agency
00:20:14 - The compounding power of relationships
00:22:55 - GUT’s approach to pitching
00:29:26 - How to be productive and find inspiration
00:31:50 - The power of working without approval
00:36:26 - The bravery scale and the bravery gap
00:40:17 - How to become a brave brand
00:43:26 - Why brave creativity drives business results
00:45:52 - Why black t shirts?
00:49:09 - How GUT’s acquisition changed the business
00:56:21 - How to plan your exit strategy
00:59:29 - The Artois Probability: a Grand Prix winning campaign
01:03:55 - Wimbledon All White Stella Artois Can
01:05:59 - Stella Artois partnership with David Beckham
01:11:06 - Where Anselmo uses AI
01:13:53 - The best advice Anselmo has ever been given

Greg Hahn returns to the podcast to discuss the philosophy that has made Mischief one of the most talked-about agencies in the world.

From Tubi's famous Super Bowl interruption campaign to turning around legacy brands like JCPenney, Greg explains why the biggest risk brands face today isn't failure, it's being ignored. We discuss how to create safe spaces for dangerous ideas, why AI risks making marketers more cautious, and the hidden cost of playing it safe.

Greg also shares the traits of great CMOs, the future of agencies and pitching, the campaigns he's most proud of, and the advice he'd give to the next generation of creatives.

Thanks for System1 for supporting the podcast:https://system1group.com

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:43 - Who are Mischief and what do they stand for?
04:26 - What would Greg Hahn’s walk on track be?
05:05 - How to make a safe space for dangerous ideas
07:46 - Is AI making us play it safe?
10:37 - What is the real cost of playing it safe?
14:31 - The Mischief strategy behind Tubi
16:20 - Tubi’s famous Super Bowl interruption campaign
17:20 - The reward prediction error theory
22:16 - Turning around a large legacy business like JCPenney
25:55 - The traits of a successful CMO
28:06 - The JCPenney movie trailer
30:16 - Goldfish Chilean Sea Bass campaign
35:51 - Why Greg likes George Felix as a CMO
37:09 - The work that Greg is most proud of
38:03 - What does the future of pitching look like?
40:50 - How much of Mischief’s work comes from pitching
42:13 - The future of social media
43:17 - What other agency work is Greg envious of?
45:03 - What would Greg do if he wasn’t afraid?
48:01 - What does the future creative agency look like?
49:14 - What does the future CMO role look like?
51:12 - What does Greg want to achieve next?
53:29 - Greg’s advice for young creatives
54:25 - What’s the best advice Greg Hahn has ever been given?
56:59 - What content does Greg consume? - Post chat

George Felix, CMO of Chili’s, joins us to tell the story behind one of the most impressive brand turnarounds of recent years. From iconic menu items like chips and salsa and the famous margarita to viral social media moments and creative partnerships, George explains how Chili’s became culturally relevant again and reignited growth.

Before Chili’s, George played a key role in the legendary Old Spice turnaround, and in this episode he shares the lessons he's learned from transforming legacy brands. We discuss the power of nostalgia, making the most of your agency relationships, influencing product and pricing decisions, and why the customer experience often drives more value than advertising alone.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:07 - The famous Chili’s chips and salsa
00:03:39 - The famous Chili’s margharita
00:06:32 - Why Chili’s has signature items
00:08:01 - How Chili’s became one of the biggest brand turnarounds in history
00:10:51 - The importance of working with people you trust
00:12:26 - George’s role in the Old Spice turnaround
00:18:10 - How to build the case for increased brand investment
00:21:16 - The power of nostalgia for a legacy brand
00:25:57 - How George pitched an idea to his creative agency and they bought it
00:29:03 - The System1 data for the Chili’s ad
00:30:45 - Fostering a great client / agency relationship
00:38:19 - How experience drives better ROI than marketing
00:42:43 - The viral cheese pull trend
00:45:45 - How can a brand create cultural relevance?
00:48:45 - Chili’s brand collaboration with Tecovas Boots
00:51:19 - How George has influence over the Product “P” in marketing
00:54:51 - How to leverage the Pricing “P”
00:57:43 - The concept of “barbell pricing”
01:00:27 - What is the most important attribute for a successful CMO?

Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin return for part two of our wide-ranging conversation on the future of marketing, creativity, and business.

From driverless cars and Silicon Valley thinking, to the dangers of digitising every human interaction, Rory and Tom explore what businesses lose when efficiency becomes the only goal. They also discuss why governments need creative departments, whether we truly understand how advertising works, and how marketers can finally gain the influence they deserve inside organisations.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Start
00:56 - What will be the advertising agency of the future?
10:39 - How to change the way we think about ad agencies
15:42 - Why the government need a creative department
19:44 - Creativity isn’t dead because AI only uses data from the past
22:32 - How marketers can achieve the influence they deserve
24:08 - Do we really know how advertising works?
29:29 - Is Tesla applying marketing thinking?
31:58 - The future of driverless cars and the danger of Silicon Valley
44:03 - Human interaction vs digitising everything
47:43 - Tom and Rory’s advice for CMOs

Two of our most popular guests return for a conversation on what’s gone wrong in modern marketing and how to fix it. Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin tackle everything from digital overload and bad choice architecture to the disappearance of taglines, long-term thinking, and genuine creativity.

Expect behavioural science, contrarian thinking, and plenty of ideas that will make you rethink how marketing really works.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:01:31 - Digital overload - are consumers given too much choice?
00:05:51 - The power of “Easter Egg Thinking”
00:07:54 - Have hotels destroyed choice architecture?
00:10:56 - More choice reduction failures
00:14:46 - Do consumers need more choice?
00:17:45 - How ad agencies can discover real insights
00:19:21 - An idea to revolutionise Cannes
00:20:49 - Why Rory and Tom think differently
00:24:05 - What are the biggest marketing myths today
00:30:41 - Fat tailed distribution - the Dulux Dog
00:32:18 - Why we need to bring back the tagline
00:35:17 - Are marketers too young?
00:37:15 - The long term work only pays off after you’re fired
00:42:34 - How to we make companies look more long term?
00:48:03 - Why people love Ryanair but hate BA
00:49:09 - The role of surprise in advertising
00:50:43 - Is marketing actually rather easy?
01:00:49 - Is the advertising agency model broken?

Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/

Jim Olson has spent his career helping businesses navigate moments of intense pressure from corporate crises to deeply personal challenges, running comms at United Airlines and Starbucks. In this episode, the author of Tailwind shares the lessons he’s learned from leadership, resilience, and facing adversity head-on.

Drawing inspiration from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing, Jim explains why the best crisis leaders follow the same process: aviate, navigate, communicate. We discuss where crisis management often goes wrong, what leaders can learn from failures like United Airlines, and why “black box thinking” matters in both business and marketing.

Jim also opens up about his own cancer diagnosis and the mindset that helped him through it.

Get Jim's new book, Tailwind here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/

00:00 - Start
01:11 - Lessons from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing
06:11 - The black box thinking approach to marketing
07:30 - Other crises Jim has had to deal with in his career
09:18 - When crisis management goes wrong - United Airlines
13:11 - Managing merging two cultures
15:27 - The situation when Jim’s CEO had a heart attack
18:00 - Jim’s cancer diagnosis
23:30 - The power of positive mentality
28:30 - Don’t ask yourself what if, ask yourself why not
31:34 - The power of a fourth space
34:05 - Crisis doesn’t build character, it reveals it
37:02 - Leadership lessons from Howard Schultz
38:58 - Jim’s advice for those people facing a crisis

Dan Taylor has spent over two decades at Google, helping shape how brands grow through search, media, and technology. Today, he leads global advertising at one of the world’s most influential companies, giving him a front-row seat to the biggest shifts in marketing.

In this episode, Dan shares what he’s learned from 20 years at Google, from the importance of simplicity to navigating organisational complexity and the evolving relationship between product and commercial teams. We also dive into the future of search, including AI, new tools like “Circle to Search,” and what it all means for marketers.

Timestamps

00:00 – Start
00:40 – Lessons from being a pilot
05:34 – Lessons from 20 years at Google
06:43 – How Google has changed over two decades
07:46 – The power of simplicity
09:02 – Google’s breakthrough moments
12:11 – The relationship between commercial and product
13:47 – Navigating organisational politics
17:08 – The biggest search trends in marketing
18:24 – What is “Circle to Search”?
20:37 – Opportunities for marketers in new search behaviours
24:52 – How AI is changing search
25:59 – Does Google see AI as competition?
28:09 – Will ads exist in AI search?
32:00 – How brands can improve search performance
33:42 – Making the most of Google and YouTube
35:34 – Measuring the value of brand search
39:56 – AI’s impact on creativity
45:52 – The one lesson from 20 years at Google

Zena Arnold, CMO of Sephora, joins us to break down how one of the world’s most influential beauty retailers continues to set the standard for brand, community, and culture.

From standout branding to record-breaking product launches, Zena shares what’s behind Sephora’s success and how the business stays relentlessly close to its customers in a fast-moving category. We explore the rise of celebrity brands, the power of loyalty, and how Sephora works with creators through initiatives like the Sephora Squad.

Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:13 - Zena’s incredible marketing career
06:02 - Lessons that turned Zena into the marketer she is today
07:41 - What has made Sephora so successful?
10:01 - Why Sephora’s branding stands out
11:30 - What’s trending in the beauty category in 2026?
13:22 - How does Sephora stay close to the customer?
14:45 - The biggest brand launch in Sephora history
15:25 - How to pitch a beauty brand to Sephora
18:00 - How important are celebrity brands?
19:03 - Helping brands launch in Sephora
21:00 - The power of Sephora’s loyalty programme
25:09 - How Sephora attract new customers
27:02 - How Sephora uses creators effectively with the Sephora Squad
29:45 - How to measure the effectiveness of creators
31:12 - The exceptional advertising of Sephora
32:49 - How Sephora uses tech in their marketing
38:09 - Dealing with the speed of retail
39:00 - Creating conditions where you can fail and learn

Rachel Thornton, Enterprise CMO at Adobe, joins us to unpack how one of the world’s leading technology companies is navigating marketing in the age of AI. From brand building in B2B to launching complex software products, Rachel shares what it takes to drive growth at global scale.

We discuss the role of major events like Adobe Summit, how AI is transforming both the practice and perception of marketing, and why community and storytelling are becoming more important than ever. Rachel also explains how Adobe balances brand and product marketing, invests in partnerships like sports sponsorships, and what “agentic orchestration” actually means in practice.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:39 - Rachel’s career and what makes a successful CMO
04:12 - The importance of brand in B2B
08:57 - The role of large events in B2B marketing (like Adobe Summit)
12:29 - The biggest changes AI have had in marketing
18:06 - How Adobe approaches community in their marketing
20:26 - How Adobe use AI in their marketing
22:53 - How Tesco use Adobe
24:22 - Adobe’s product launches at Summit 2026
26:50 - What does agentic orchestration mean?
28:33 - How to successfully launch new software?
29:58 - How Adobe addresses brand vs product marketing?
30:57 - Why Adobe invests in sports sponsorships
34:26 - The power of storytelling in sport
36:07 - The best advice Rachel has received

Nir Eyal returns to the podcast to discuss his latest book, Beyond Belief, and the powerful role belief plays in shaping our behaviour, relationships, and decisions.

From the difference between fact, faith, and belief to the surprising ways our perceptions influence what we see, Nir explains how beliefs can be consciously changed and why doing so can transform everything from personal performance to company culture.

We also explore the role of belief in branding, including how companies like Liquid Death use anticipation to disrupt entire categories, and why the most successful brands don’t just sell products they shape what people believe.

Thank you to System1 for sponsoring Uncensored CMO.
https://system1group.com/

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:44 - Why Nir wrote a book about belief?
05:57 - How powerful can belief be?
10:15 - Believing is seeing
12:44 - The three powers of belief
14:42 - The difference between fact, faith and belief
16:05 - How belief can affect relationships
17:10 - How to change your beliefs
25:52 - How powerful can beliefs be?
28:37 - The cautious power of placebo
32:59 - Why Liquid Death used the power of anticipation to disrupt water
35:59 - Why brand is so powerful
37:40 - How our beliefs literally shape what we see
39:42 - Why smart people are more unsuccessful
41:59 - How beliefs can improve company culture
42:57 - When should you quit?
47:08 - Why labelling yourself can be self-limiting
50:52 - How to build good beliefs

Today, Jon and Kory break down one of the most misunderstood relationships in marketing: working with agencies.

From treating agencies as a true force multiplier to fixing broken relationships, they share practical advice on how to get the best out of your partners, and what to do when things inevitably go wrong. This is a candid look at trust, expectations, and why the best results come when agencies feel like part of your team, not just a supplier.

Whether you’re managing an agency or working inside one, this episode will change how you think about the relationship.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:20 - Why agencies can be a force multiplier
02:11 - How to fix a broken agency relationship
04:12 - How to set your agency up for success
08:36 - Bringing your agency into your company
13:42 - What to do when things go wrong with your agency
18:30 - Be tough in victory and gentle in defeat
20:17 - What is the cost of changing your agency?

Danny Alexander, co-founder of Who Gives A Crap, joins us to share how a toilet paper brand became a global challenger business while giving away 50% of its profits to charity.

From launching with a viral crowdfunding campaign to capitalising on the global toilet paper shortage, Danny breaks down how the brand combined purpose, creativity, and strong fundamentals to stand out in a commoditised category.

We also discuss the realities of scaling a mission-led business, the differences between DTC and retail marketing, lessons from failed launches, and how to build a team and culture that lasts. A brilliant look at what it really takes to build a brand people care about.

Timestamps

00:00 – Start
00:29 – The founding story of Who Gives A Crap
02:55 – The benefits of having three co-founders
05:00 – Naming the company
07:07 – Innovating in packaging design
10:08 – The story behind the emergency roll
10:58 – Why they give away 50% of profits
12:53 – Convincing investors to support the mission
14:38 – The viral crowdfunding campaign
17:33 – Capitalising on the toilet paper shortage
22:45 – DTC vs retail marketing
24:36 – Most effective marketing campaigns
27:46 – Biggest challenges and failures
30:53 – A failed brand launch
37:08 – Hiring great talent
38:32 – The five values of Who Gives A Crap
41:14 – Advice for aspiring founders

Today, Jon and Kory explore a simple but often overlooked skill: how to actually find inspiration.

From brands like Tony’s Chocolonely to supermarkets, subways, and even nature, they break down why the best ideas rarely come from inside your own company. Instead, inspiration comes from changing your environment, staying curious, and being open to unexpected moments.

If you’re feeling stuck, this episode is a reminder that great ideas are everywhere, if you’re willing to look for them.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:32 - Why Jon is inspired by Tony’s Chocolonely
06:45 - Why you need to look outside your company for inspiration
08:35 - Finding inspiration in nature
10:54 - The importance of changing your context
12:56 - Getting inspiration in a supermarket
14:33 - Getting inspiration on the metro
16:57 - Why you need to be open to be inspired

Walter Susini, former CMO of Coca-Cola Europe, joins us to share what it really takes to succeed inside one of the world’s most iconic brands. From the enduring power of “Holidays Are Coming” to the role of jingles and distinctive assets.

We also dive into innovation at Coca-Cola, including the lessons from Coke Zero and the failed launch of Coke Energy, and where brands often get innovation wrong.

But beyond marketing, Walter offers a candid look at the political reality of being a CMO, a theme he explores in his book Bullsh*t Inc., an unfiltered guide to how companies really operate behind the scenes. Drawing on decades of experience, he shares why performance alone isn’t enough, how decisions actually get made, and what it takes to survive and succeed inside large organisations. 

Get Walter's book here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BULLSH-INC-Unfiltered-Survival-Corporate/dp/B0G6PVDM11

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/

Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:58 - Walter Susini’s career journey
02:38 - Why Coke ran the holidays are coming ads for so long?
05:51 - The power of distinctive assets for Coca Cola - especially jingles
08:34 - Why Pepsi used Coke’s polar bear
11:50 - What the data says about the Pepsi polar bear ad
15:41 - Why Walter is a “Professor of Practice”
18:10 - The failed launch of Coke Energy
21:29 - Innovation in the drinks industry: launching Coke Zero
23:32 - The sweet spot for innovation
25:53 - The political reality of being a CMO
34:00 - Why Walter’s book cover is yellow
37:11 - Why Walter wrote a book on corporate politics
40:29 - How to navigate the politics in a business
42:27 - Why you can still be fired if your performance is great
44:54 - Performance theatre beats actual theatre
47:15 - Why decisions don’t get made in meetings
47:57 - Why vulnerability and psychological safety are non-existent in business
49:33 - Dealing with buzzword hyperfocus
53:39 - How to survive the corporate jungle

Leadership at the top level doesn't come free it costs time, energy, and often the comfort of a predictable life. In this episode, Kory and Jon get honest about what it really takes to lead as a CMO: the personal sacrifices, the travel, the pressure, and the constant balancing act between work and home. From managing time zones on the road to the surprisingly powerful concept of strategic laziness, this is a candid look at what high-performance leadership actually demands, and how to make it sustainable.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:39 - What sacrifices do CMOs need to make
04:37 - How to balance work with home life
06:36 - Managing time zone differences when you travel
10:41 - How to apply strategic laziness
14:15 - How to lead effectively under pressure from travelling

Last year, I sat down with Jaguar MD Rawdon Glover to unpack one of the most controversial rebrands in automotive history. Now, the car is real and I got a chance to ride around the test track in it.

Joined by Rory Sutherland, we travelled to Jaguar’s HQ to experience the new car in prototype form. What followed was a conversation on whether this radical reinvention is genius or madness.

We dive into the thinking behind the design, the disappearing trade-offs between performance and comfort, and why Jaguar is deliberately challenging convention. Rory brings his trademark perspective on behaviour and perception, including how to rethink “range anxiety” and what makes a product feel truly desirable.

This is a rare look inside a brand attempting one of the boldest transformations in modern automotive history.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:10 - What has gone into creating the new Jaguar?
04:00 - Balancing performance and comfort
05:43 - The power of choosing conflicting goals
07:51 - Why the new Jaguar is being tested on ice?
10:32 - How close is the concept car to the production car?
12:54 - Who is the target audience for the new Jaguar?
14:30 - The design process of the new Jaguar
18:41 - The Spirit of Jaguar Campaign
20:46 - Why the metrics for electric cars need to change
22:13 - Why the new Jaguar is a bargain at £130,000
25:34 - Will petrolheads like this car?
26:37 - Why electrification changes the paradigm of what’s possible
30:47 - Rory’s pitch for removing battery anxiety
33:08 - Why Ferrari and Lamborghini took different approaches to EVs
35:21 - Will the new Jaguar be a Waymo?
36:27 - How are Jaguar predicting demand for this car?
36:41 - How will Jaguar predict demand for the car?
37:57 - The marketing plan for the new Jaguar
40:57 - Is the residual value of electric cars a worry?
42:12 - Customisation options for the new Jaguar
46:03 - What would Rory do if he was in charge of Jaguar
49:26 - The decision behind the bold car colours

Getting fired is one of the most humbling experiences in business, and one of the most instructive. In this episode, Kory and Jon get candid about the times they've been let go, what went wrong, and the hard-won lessons that followed. Jon in particular has a story or two to share (including getting fired twice in 18 months), and between them they unpack what it really takes to survive and thrive in high-stakes leadership roles.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:22 - What Jon learned from being fired twice
03:35 - How not to get fired
08:20 - How to understand your boss (so you don’t get fired)
10:50 - Align yourself with the company, not just personal goals
13:11 - How Jon got fired for the second time in 18 months
16:12 - Are you the right person to work for a high growth company?
17:50 - Be careful where you get hired

It’s not often you meet a CMO who helped build a unicorn from the ground up while creating an entirely new category. Steve Beckett, CMO of Zwift, joined as employee number five and played a key role in turning Zwift into the global sporting powerhouse it now is.

In this episode, Steve shares how Zwift balanced performance marketing with brand building, deeply understanding the acquisition metrics while making bold brand bets, including becoming the founding sponsor of the Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift. We also explore how the business scaled through COVID, the bold move to launch their own hardware, and the role brand played in raising capital.

This is a conversation about what it really takes to build a category-defining company and why the best CMOs understand both the metrics and the magic.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/

Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
02:51 - Steve’s work with team Sky
05:05 - Learning about success inside Team Sky
07:09 - From Sky to employee number 5 at Zwift
08:36 - How Zwift invented the indoor training category
13:37 - The behavioural science behind Zwift
14:51 - Has anyone turned pro from riding on Zwift?
17:18 - How Covid impacted Zwift
23:11 - Growing at all costs vs profitability
27:28 - Whats it like working for a founder led startup
29:50 - How brand helped Zwift raise money
32:06 - From selling software to selling hardware
34:14 - Why Zwift sponsor the women’s Tour De France
38:09 - Advice on how to create a unicorn business

Companies have boards of directors to make big decisions, so why don't individuals? Kory does exactly this in her life, so she breaks down why she does it, how she chose the people to be a part of her board, and the kind of decisions they helps her make.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:17 - What is a personal board of directors?
04:07 - When to use your board of directors
04:51 - What makes a good personal board of directors?
06:21 - How to choose your board
08:58 - The power of networking
11:41 - What not to do with your personal board of directors
12:37 - Finding people outside your industry
19:09 - Why you learn more deeper into your career

Carly Natalizia, Chief Commercial Officer at Gymshark, joins us to share how one of the UK’s most exciting brands continues to grow while staying close to its community. From starting her career in finance to leading commercial strategy at Gymshark, Carly offers a unique perspective on leadership, growth, and customer obsession.

We discuss Gymshark’s rise as a challenger brand taking on global sportswear giants, what it’s like working alongside founder Ben Francis, and how the business balances brand and commercial priorities. Carly also shares lessons on sustainable growth, executing big ideas, and how Gymshark keeps its finger on the pulse of its customers.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/

Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timstamps

00:00 - Start
01:08 - How Carly went from finance to marketing
02:19 - Career advice to Carly’s younger self
04:09 - Why Carly moved from finance to retail and the differences between them
07:28 - The Gymshark story: taking on the sportswear giants
09:02 - What its like working for the UK’s youngest billionaire, Ben Francis
15:07 - Carly’s promotion from Chief Digital Officer to Chief Commercial Officer
16:01 - How Gymshark stay close to the customer
17:21 - How to be an effective leader in the c-suite at Gymshark
18:44 - How the Chief Commercial Officer and Chief Brand Officer work together
25:04 - How do you maintain sustainable growth
26:46 - Gymshark NYC store launch
29:25 - The success of Gymshark’s “We Do Gym” campaign
31:24 - How to execute great ideas well

e.l.f. lives by the mission of being "a bold disruptor with a kind heart" a refreshing stance when disruption is rarely paired with kindness. Kory explains why kindness is at the core of how e.l.f. operates, what it actually looks like in practice, and what holds most people back from embracing it.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Watch the Uncensored CMO episode with James Watt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp1CPZ0CNM

Links

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:53 - Being a bold disruptor with a kind heart
03:11 - The difference between being kind and being nice
08:02 - Why we should be kind to our competitors
09:30 - The science to kindness
10:56 - Why fear of embarrassment stops us being kind
17:02 - The power of kindness for your career
19:08 - Kindness doesn’t have to be big gestures

Zach Kitschke joined Canva as employee number five. Today, the company serves hundreds of millions of users worldwide.

In this episode, Zach shares the inside story of Canva’s growth, from the scrappy early marketing that put the company on the map to scaling a brand and product used across the world. We discuss the power of Canva’s freemium model, their bold “Make the Logo Bigger” campaign, and how the company approaches both brand and B2B marketing.

Zach also explains how Canva scaled from a team of five to thousands of employees, the leadership lessons he learned from the founders, and how AI is shaping the next chapter for the business.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/

Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:53 - Being employee #5 at Canva
01:46 - The marketing that got Canva noticed at the start
03:50 - How big is Canva?
04:45 - The challenges growing Canva into a unicorn
07:26 - What makes good design according to Canva
09:24 - The freemium business model
11:46 - Why the Canva founders are giving away 30% of their wealth
13:21 - Do Canva invest more in product or brand?
14:41 - Canva’s make the logo bigger campaign
16:33 - How Canva approaches B2B marketing
18:59 - The AI tools that are driving Canva forward
22:19 - The most innovative things Zach has done as Canva CMO
24:58 - Zach’s tips for delivering a keynote
26:59 - Being a CMO scaling from 5 to 5000 employees
29:52 - How to run multiple business functions; HR, marketing, customer service
31:49 - What Zach has learned from the Canva founders
33:32 - How to define the cuture at Canva
35:39 - What’s next for Canva?
36:35 - What has made Canva so successul?

Every week, Jon and Kory pull back the curtain on the messy, unfiltered reality of building a career on your own terms. Throughout their long and successful careers, they've had their fair share of sh*tty moments and even sh*ttier bosses. From Kory being literally barked orders at in her first job, to Jon being fired after just 3 months at his dream job. These are the moments that make you question everything. But they're also the moments that shape you. Tune in for the lessons, the laughs, and zero sugarcoating.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Watch the Uncensored CMO episode with James Watt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp1CPZ0CNM

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:37 - Why sh*tty moments?
01:24 - Kory moment #1 - the fire that fuels you
04:20 - How to be a good boss
05:43 - Jon moment #1 - when to have the hard conversations
11:13 - Kory moment #2 - a lesson in de-escalation
16:28 - Jon moment #2 - impossible and unreasonable expectations
20:59 - Kory moment #3 - be careful of the bridges you burn
25:51 - Jon moment #3 - the power of being vulnerable

Jessica Jensen, CMO of LinkedIn, joins us for a high-energy conversation on careers, personal branding, and the future of B2B marketing.

We dive into the latest job market data (it might surprise you), the skills employers are actively looking for, and how to grow your personal profile on LinkedIn (which could include posting with flamingo glasses). We also unpack the LinkedIn algorithm, handling negative comments, new features creators and brands should be using, and why B2B marketing absolutely doesn’t have to be boring.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/

Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:04 - Jessica Jensen’s backstory
02:02 - The benefits of being a marketer from a non-marketing background
02:42 - The difference between B2B and B2C according to LinkedIn
03:38 - How to build high-performing teams
06:32 - The data on the job market according to LinkedIn
10:02 - What skills are employers looking for?
12:04 - How do you build a personal brand on LinkedIn (when working for another company)
18:25 - 3 tips for building your personal brand on LinkedIn
20:04 - What is going on with the LinkedIn algorithm?
21:35 - How to make the most of an ever changing algorithm
23:16 - Does LinkedIn suppress posts based on gender?
26:14 - How to deal with negative comments on LinkedIn
28:00 - What new LinkedIn features should people be using?
30:48 - What features can brands use to make the most of LinkedIn
32:19 - B2B does not have to be boring
35:02 - LinkedIn’s billboards poking fun at AI
36:21 - How are LinkedIn marketing LinkedIn?
41:12 - How are LinkedIn helping younger people get into work
43:28 - Addressing the Open to Work badge stigma
44:17 - Advice to creators on LinkedIn

How are great products created through innovation? Jon and Kory tackle this topic bringing entertaining examples from their careers, including the runaway success of e.l.f.'s Power Grip primer. So what's the key to innovation? Culture, constraints, and most importantly, being close to your customer.

Get Uncensored Renegades every week:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:04 - Why innovation is Jon’s favourite marketing topic
01:35 - Creating the cultural conditions necessary for innovation
04:25 - The measuring stick for innovation
06:23 - Why innovation fails
08:19 - The innovation of e.l.f.’s Power Grip Primer
15:09 - How constraint breeds innovation
20:07 - Innovation when you’re close to your customer

Jim Cregan built Jimmy’s Iced Coffee from scratch, spotting an untapped market, designing a product that stood out, and making its way onto the shelves of Selfridges in just 4 months.

In this episode, Jim shares the founding story, the thinking behind Jimmy’s distinctive “BottleCan” packaging, and how personal touches and relentless energy helped build a brand people loved. We also dive into retail strategy, going direct-to-consumer, treating suppliers as humans, and how the £25m exit to Britvic finally came together.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

00:00 - Start
00:59 - The founding story of Jimmy’s Iced Coffee
06:04 - The iced coffee market at the time
09:44 - How Jimmy designed and packaged the product
12:21 - Why Jimmy’s is in “Cottles” or “BottleCans”
19:56 - How Jimmy’s got into Selfridges 4 months after launching
20:50 - Hustling their way into Whole Foods and other stores
26:58 - How Jimmy’s got a listing in Tesco
28:05 - Treating suppliers like humans
31:15 - Choosing to go Direct to Consumer in addition to retail
32:53 - Adding the personal details that matter
34:20 - How Jim marketed Jimmy’s Iced Coffee
39:39 - Jim’s advice to aspiring founders
41:57 - How the £25m exit to Britvic happened

How do you distil something as complex as marketing into something simple?

In this special episode of Uncensored Renegades, Kory delivers a powerful seven-minute poem (originally written as a pattern-disrupting acceptance speech) that captures the emotional weight, pressure, and responsibility of modern marketing leadership.

Born from a flash of inspiration at an AC/DC concert, the poem explores the trials of being a CMO, the burden of accountability, and the mental fortitude required to lead.

After the performance, Jon reacts candidly, unpacking the themes of ownership, bravery, and the uncomfortable truth that in leadership, pretty much everything is down to you.

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:28 - Why marketing is poetry to Kory
02:25 - Where did Kory’s love for poetry start?
03:58 - How poetry makes complex things simple
04:56 - Why Kory wrote a poem and not an acceptance speech
12:29 - Kory Marchisotto’s marketing poem
19:43 - Jon reacts to Kory’s poem
21:04 - The power of mental fortitude
24:34 - Pretty much everything is down to you, and you alone
26:45 - You don’t have to have all the answers
28:05 - Seek out what you don’t know

Thomas Barta is one of the world’s leading experts on marketing leadership. A former McKinsey partner, CEO of the Marketing Leadership Institute, and co-author of The 12 Powers of a Marketing Leader, Thomas has studied what makes CMOs successful through the largest global research project of its kind, over 68,000 leadership assessments.

In this episode, we explore what CEOs really expect from CMOs, why so few marketers make it to the boardroom, and what needs to change if marketing is to lead growth again. Thomas shares practical tactics for building stronger CFO relationships, acting with more bravery, and avoiding the “safe” behaviours that quietly kill careers. A must-listen for any marketer serious about leadership.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:43 - How Thomas Barta got into marketing
02:24 - The surprising thing about marketing at the board level
03:52 - What is the CEO looking for a CMO to deliver
04:41 - Why are there so few marketers in the boardroom
08:38 - What tactics should marketers use to make sure they are delivering growth
11:20 - How can CMOs build the relationship with their CFO
12:53 - CMO Tenure - is it going up or down?
18:59 - What do CMOs need to change?
21:13 - Fitting in is the safest way to fail
28:11 - The bravery formula
29:48 - Why you need to act quickly
31:07 - Confessions of a CMO

With Cannes Lions deadlines looming, Jon and Kory dive into what it really takes to pitch, and win, at Cannes.

We recorded this episode on the final day of Cannes 2025, with Kory in the thick of e.l.f’s "So Many D*cks" campaign submission for both a Glass and Titanium Lion. With the experience fresh in her mind, she breaks down the realities of the process.

Jon brings a different perspective, reflecting on his own Bronze and Silver Lion wins from years past, and the hard-earned lessons that came with them.

This is an episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. We'll only be posting a few more episodes of Renegades on this feed. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe in your podcast app of choice:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro

00:49 - The pitching process for a Cannes Lion

03:14 - The pitch process for a Glass Lion

06:51 - The power of the Pratfall Effect

08:39 - Pitching for a Titanium Lion

10:41 - Jon’s tips from winning his Silver and Bronze Lions

12:17 - Audience before content

14:14 - How to make your campaign interesting (and not dull)

16:25 - How e.l.f. makes their campaigns interesting

18:58 - How to hack your campaign; babies or animals

Syl Saller CBE is one of the most respected marketing leaders of her generation. Former Global Chief Marketing and Innovation Officer at Diageo, Syl helped lead a FTSE 10 business with more than 200 brands across 180 countries. Today, she’s an executive coach and mentor, President of The Marketing Society, and works closely with C-suite leaders to develop the next generation of marketing leadership.

In this episode, Syl shares what the CMO role at Diageo is really like, how to build strong relationships with CEOs and boards, and how to navigate imposter syndrome, difficult conversations, and career-defining moments. We also discuss why she left Diageo, what she’d do differently looking back, and the leadership lessons she now passes on to others.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:53 - What’s a CMO role at Diageo really like?
02:56 - How to have difficult conversations
03:59 - Whats it like being on the board of Diageo?
05:04 - Working with Sir Ivan Menezes, legendary Diageo CEO
09:10 - How to foster a great relationship with your CEO
12:38 - How Syl Saller’s childhood shaped her into the leader she is today
18:57 - What would Syl Saller do differently in her career
21:29 - How to deal with imposter syndrome as a leader
25:31 - How to figure out your life and career plan
28:08 - The toolkit for planning success
31:40 - Why the challenging moments in life can have the best outcomes
34:17 - Maintaining a good work life balance with a senior job
38:51 - Why Syl left Diageo in 2020
40:11 - Why Syl Saller became a leadership coach after leaving Diageo
43:10 - Three bits of leadership advice from Syl Saller

This is an episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

When you define any other business function, the answer is simple. What is finance? What is HR? What is IT?

When you ask, what is marketing? The answer is broad. Is it sales? Is it storytelling? Is it brand?

In this episode, Kory and Jon dig into some of the words used to define marketing and decrypt some of the findings.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:15 - Why is marketing hard to define?
04:35 - Why brand is so important
08:36 - How your brand shows up when hiring people
10:36 - The words that describe marketing
14:47 - Do marketers neglect the role of strategy?
17:25 - The most surprising words that define marketing
18:39 - The power of storytelling

The last time I spoke to today's guest, James Watt, he fired me. It's the first thing we talk about in the episode, but I have nothing but respect for the man who built Brewdog into the Unicorn it is today. Through their impressive marketing stunts, focus on product quality and immense speed of execution, Brewdog successfully took on the beer behemoths and solidified its place in the industry. In this episode we talk about why James made a mistake hiring an executive team (including me), how they convinced a bank to give them a loan in the global financial crisis and how he almost lost £50m to a Russian bank account. Now, James has launched a new venture, Social Tip, a new way brands can connect with consumers.

Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:58 - Why did James fire Jon?
01:56 - Being in the detail and close to the customer
06:07 - Brewdog founding story: how they got funding
08:54 - Why Brewdog is so passionate about making a great product
13:07 - How Brewdog won their Tesco listing
15:58 - How a Tesco listing transformed Brewdog
17:37 - The secret to an overnight success
20:22 - Why constraints led to great marketing for Brewdog
22:09 - Examples of Brewdog’s incredible marketing stunts
27:43 - Why James changed his name to Elvis
29:28 - Collaborating with copycats: launching ALD IPA
31:14 - When marketing stunts go wrong
33:28 - How James almost lost £50 million
37:48 - James Watt’s favourite business books
41:17 - How James Watt felt when he left Brewdog
43:01 - Leadership lessons from James Watt about scaling
46:05 - Dealing with public scrutiny
47:26 - Why James started his new business: Social Tip
54:03 - How to pitch your business to James Watt

This is the first episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Know your e.l.f.ing numbers - it's your responsibility as a leader. Jon and Kory share stories of when this has helped them in roles, and share advice on how CMOs can be successful in getting more budget, taking bigger risks and, ultimately, grow the brand (for 25 consecutive quarters in Kory’s case).

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:34 - You just do the cutting, sticking and colouring in
01:42 - Why knowing your numbers is so important for CMOs
05:25 - Making the case for long term marketing investment
08:10 - Why CMOs need to earn the right to take risks
12:05 - Managing internal politics in the c-suite
15:16 - Kory’s formula to create successful work

Jenn Chase, CMO of SAS, joins us to share how one of the world’s most established AI and analytics companies is reinventing its brand. From launching SAS’s first brand campaign in 25 years to shifting the organisation from performance-led to brand-led thinking, Jenn walks through what it takes to drive meaningful change inside a founder-led business.

We also discuss how COVID reshaped the brand, why SAS is leaning into humour, the decision to sponsor Liverpool FC, and where AI is having the biggest impact on marketing today. Plus, Jenn shares leadership lessons, the skills every modern CMO needs, and how to build a great culture.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:00 - What is SAS?
02:11 - Being a founder led business after 50 years
04:38 - Being at the company for 27 years
06:03 - How Jenn became CMO of SAS
07:57 - How COVID changed the brand forever
08:33 - Launching their first brand campaign in 25 years
09:22 - Convincing the business to switch from performance to brand
10:45 - Creating an effective relationship with the finance team
14:31 - What did the business think of the first brand campaign in 25 years?
17:22 - How did they manage the effectiveness of their brand campaign?
22:04 - Why their new campaign leans into humour
24:28 - Why SAS decided to sponsor Liverpool FC
27:06 - How to sell in a big idea to an organisation?
32:16 - Where is AI having the biggest impact in marketing?
36:25 - Leadership advice from Brene Brown
39:54 - Skills to be a successful CMO
42:59 - What creates a great culture
45:12 - How big of a change will AI search be
47:08 - The 95:5 rule

This is the first episode of the Uncensored Renegades podcast. To hear episodes of this new show, subscribe here:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c

Failure needs to be rebranded. Most see it negatively, but history shows great successes are followed shortly after failures. Jon and Kory tackle the stigma against failures, why we should embrace them across the organisations we work for. They also share their biggest failures in their career and what they’ve learned from them.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:54 - Why are we afraid to talk about failure?
04:07 - Why failures set you up for success
11:11 - Jon’s biggest failure
18:20 - Kory’s biggest failure

After collaborating with Worldwide Partners on the Confessions of a CMO report (the anonymous report asking top tier CMOs what they really think about the state of the role), I thought I'd team up with the world's most opinionated professor to discuss some of the comments. We talk tenure, politics, management and more.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:04 - How the Uncensored CMO started
02:41 - How Confessions of a CMO originated
03:44 - The CMO tenure data
06:35 - Why the CMO role isn’t dead, it’s just changing
12:02 - The real 4 Ps of a CMO
18:57 - Becoming the Chief Mood Officer
22:16 - Why marketing needs to provide the meaning for the business
27:04 - Why CMOs need to combine data and storytelling
28:38 - Why CMOs need to create momentum
40:53 - Were there any surprises from the report?

About Worldwide Partners:

Worldwide Partners, Inc. (WPI), the world’s most collaborative agency network, enables growth through access, flexibility and partnership. With over 90 independent agencies in more than 50 countries, and experience in over 90 industry verticals, Worldwide Partners serves as a hub that harnesses the talent, expertise and diversified capabilities of the agencies within our network to reimagine growth for both brands and agencies.

Listen to the launch episode of my brand new show, Uncensored Renegades, co-hosted with Kory Marchisotto, CMO of e.l.f. and a previous guest on Uncensored CMO.

Listen to the new show here:

In Uncensored Renegades, we talk about the things most people are too afraid to discuss: being fired, failure, terrible bosses, and more.

Get to know your hosts, Jon Evans and Kory Marchisotto, hear why we started the show, and find out what’s coming next.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:06 - Background to Uncensored Renegades
01:59 - Why Renegades?
02:39 - The response to Jon’s launch post
05:48 - What topics will be discussed on the show?
08:47 - The partnership that led to the podcast
11:50 - Why the name “Renegades”?
13:54 - Getting to know Jon and Kory
27:45 - What do you do to recharge?
38:33 - Inspiring books
41:32 - Crowdsourcing topic ideas

Our most popular guest ever is back - Rory Sutherland returns for a wide-ranging conversation on why marketing works best when it embraces luck, spontaneity, and a little irrationality. From the dangers of confected outrage and self-censorship to the unfair economics of marketing, Rory challenges the industry’s obsession with logic, optimisation, and process.

We discuss why success is often misunderstood as skill rather than luck, the value of doing a few things irresponsibly, and why inefficiency can be a feature rather than a flaw. As ever, Rory connects behavioural science, creativity, and business reality in ways few others can.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:16 - How Rory deals with his new micro fame
03:12 - How Jon shut down the London Underground
07:04 - The problem with confected outrage
10:34 - How self-censoring is affecting creativity
12:10 - The power of spontaneity and luck in advertising
16:03 - The unfair economics of marketing
20:54 - Is success just luck?
23:12 - Spend 95% responsibly, and 5% irresponsibly
30:12 - Doubling down on what your competitors do badly
34:32 - Why so many businesses are no longer customer focused
35:29 - Inefficiency as a feature
37:08 - The power of herd mentality
43:26 - What marketers can teach the business world
48:13 - Why internal process is killing businesses
51:15 - Lessons from 200 years of The Spectator advertising
54:47 - Rory’s closing thoughts on marketing

Les Binet and Sarah Carter are back for our yearly special, tacking the biggest marketing stories of the year and what to focus on in 2026. We explore the power of consistency, disguised repetition, and why brands so often misunderstand campaigns. Les and Sarah explain why big brands can’t behave like small ones (and vice versa), how marketers can persuade businesses to invest more in the long term, and whether we’re seeing the end of the purpose era and a return to product-led growth. We also look ahead to the role of AI versus craft in advertising, and what the evidence suggests for the year ahead.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:38 - The year of consistency
05:26 - Disguised repetition
11:13 - Do we define campaigns wrong?
12:27 - Why you need to go big on your media spend
17:07 - Why big brands can’t market like small brands and vice versa
23:15 - How can you persuade your business to spend more
28:52 - Why don’t we do the long term work, despite the evidence
34:19 - Why everyone is wrong about CMO tenure
37:18 - Have we seen the end of the purpose era? (and the renaissance of product)
44:50 - AI vs craft in advertising

In this special crossover episode, we’re joined by Jimmy McLoughlin, host of Jimmy’s Jobs of the Future, to explore the intersection of politics, media, and marketing. Jimmy shares how he built one of the UK’s most influential political podcasts, landed interviews with the Prime Minister, and why big podcasts now rival traditional media in shaping public opinion.

We also compare the most impactful episodes from both shows, debate trust in marketing and politics, unpack why some of today’s biggest tech brands struggle with branding, and make the case for humour in advertising.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:37 - How Jimmy McLoughlin became a podcaster
04:21 - How Jimmy got the Prime Minister of the UK on the pod
08:50 - The power of big podcasts
11:43 - Why can’t politicians be honest?
12:56 - The top 5 episodes of Jimmy’s Jobs of the Future
16:59 - The top 5 episodes of Uncensored CMO in 2025
21:25 - What episode has inspired Jimmy the most
23:27 - What episode has inspired Jon the most?
29:34 - What politician would Jon most like to interview?
30:33 - The danger of all the new podcasts being released
33:27 - The most untrustworthy professions; marketing and politics
34:39 - Webinars need a rebrand
35:56 - Why no marketer was involved with branding ChatGPT
37:27 - Monzo’s great marketing in 2025
39:33 - The serious case for humour in advertising
39:58 - The different types of happiness in advertising
41:46 - The shifting advertising landscape
46:13 - Approaching marketing like a politician
47:51 - Career advice in 2026 from Jimmy McLoughlin
49:20 - When politics and marketing collide

This week’s bonus episode comes from Never Mind the Adverts, hosted by Jon Evans and joined by returning Uncensored CMO guest Orlando Wood. Together, they look back on the biggest marketing stories, debates, and creative moments of 2025. Expect festive cheer, some interesting tipples, and a healthy dose of advertising showmanship.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:41 - Starting with some festive cheer
02:04 - The big news stories from 2025
02:20 - The multiplier effect
03:51 - The creative dividend
05:05 - The Cost of Dull Media
07:17 - Les Binet Go Big or Go Home
09:22 - The Wild West of Influencer Measurement
13:00 - How the pause screen has become an advertising channel
14:30 - Sydney Sweeney, American Eagle and Jaguar - The Crisis
16:15 - Mergers and WPP
17:26 - Drinks Trolley Break
19:00 - Jon’s highlight - awards
20:12 - Orlando Wood’s highlight of 2025
21:46 - Rory Sutherland vs Scott Galloway
22:35 - Jon and Alix Earle in Cannes
23:52 - Jon cycles up a mountain with Zwift
25:12 - Becoming trustee for the History of Advertising Trust
26:42 - The History of Christmas Advertising with a special guest
33:10 - Who won Christmas in 2025?
34:27 - Aldi and Kevin the Carrot
35:18 - Waitrose’s strong Christmas showing
36:28 - The most viewed Christmas Ads on YouTube
37:25 - Amazon re-airing their Christmas ad this year
38:20 - The growth of Christmas Ads in 2025
39:47 - The right brained nature of the successful Christmas ads
40:51 - The Coca Cola AI Christmas Ad
43:23 - The Never Mind the Adverts Awards
44:02 - System1 Star of the Year
44:51 - System1 Turkey of the Year
45:32 - Name that ad

Emma Harris spent a decade revolutionising Eurostar as its Marketing and Sales Director, leading the brand through years of success and navigating multiple crises. Now the Founder and Chief of Glow London, she works with clients around the world to build brands that are deeply connected to their people and culture.

In this episode, Emma shares her journey through marketing, leadership, and entrepreneurship, and the life-altering moment that forced her to rethink everything. After suffering a cardiac arrest, she reflects on ambition, burnout, and what really matters. We talk about building great teams, leaving safe roles to start something new, bouncing back from the hardest year of her life, and why slowing down might be the most radical, and necessary, leadership move as we head into 2026.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:52 - How Emma got into marketing
04:58 - What can sales learn from marketers?
07:36 - How to respond to a comms crisis?
12:17 - Lessons from a 10 year tenure at a company
14:14 - How to get the best out of your employees
16:49 - How to hire great people
18:14 - Why Emma left her safe role to setup her own agency
19:41 - Bouncing back from the worst year of your life
20:42 - Why Emma set up Glow, her agency
21:39 - Advice for being your own boss
22:34 - Emma’s life changing cardiac arrest
25:54 - Life lessons from almost dying
28:06 - Why you need to slow the f*ck down
33:58 - How we should approach the new year
37:04 - The power of accountability

As has become a tradition, marketing professor Mark Ritson is back to break down his top 10 marketing moments of the year. We talk fighter brands, the president, Amazon's grannies, deepfakes, mergers and more in this snappy episode. There's nothing more to say - strap in and enjoy the opinionated marketing professor dropping some clangers.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:32 - Mark Ritson’s top 10 stories of the year
01:55 - 10. A big year for mergers
04:35 - 9. The painkiller vs the president
09:42 - 8. Tesla’s Fighter Brand Failure
12:56 - Mark Ritson’s advice to Elon Musk
23:05 - 6. Amazon brings back the grannies (compounding)
30:10 - Marketing Buzzwords of 2025
30:20 - Buzzword 1: Hyperpersonalisation
30:54 - Buzzword 2: Onmichannel Marketing
31:44 - Buzzword 3: Growth Hacking
32:38 - 5: The great Cracker Barrel crisis of 2025
39:06 - 4. Starbucks and their positioning
42:10 - 3: New CEOs chasing growth vs gimmicks
43:44 - 2. Deepfake Martin Lewis and fraudulent advertising
48:33 - 1: Maxi-miniflation

Andrew Warden, CMO of Semrush, joins us to unpack how AI is reshaping search, and what it means for marketers heading into 2026. We discuss whether SEO is really “dead,” the biggest insights from Semrush’s new AI Visibility Index, and how different AI models surface and rank content across industries. Andrew also shares why brand and digital visibility matter more than ever, the growing importance of creators in AI-driven discovery, and practical advice for CMOs trying to stay ahead as search rapidly evolves.

This episode is brought to you bySemrush— your unfair advantage in digital brand visibility. From fast-growing teams to global enterprises, Semrush shows you where you stand, where you can win, and how to stay visible across AI Search and LLMs. With unrivaled data and real AI intelligence, Semrush helps you move faster, grow faster, and make sure your brand is the answer wherever customers ask.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
02:08 - How disruptive is AI for search in 2026?
04:19 - Is SEO dead now because of AI?
08:32 - Biggest surprises from Semrush’s new AI Visibility Index Report
11:04 - How different AI models treat different industries
13:05 - Understanding how AI ranks different sources
15:48 - Why content creators are important in the age of AI search
18:35 - Why you need to be failing fast in AI
21:10 - Why brand matters more in the age of AI
24:20 - Why digital brand visibility matters so much
26:28 - Advice for CMOs for getting on top of AI for search
30:21 - Is AI just making decisions for us?
33:19 - Why humanity, authenticity and emotion are more important than ever
36:12 - What is Semrush One?

Jo Shoesmith, Chief Creative Officer at Amazon, joins us for a second time to reveal how one of the world’s biggest brands continues to make advertising that connects emotionally and stands the test of time. She shares what she’s learned moving from agency life to leading creativity inside a global giant, why Amazon still invests in traditional media, and the secret to ads that run for 3–5 years without losing impact.

We also discuss why right-brained storytelling works, the surprising insights about Gen Z, and how Amazon balances scale, agility, and creativity in the age of AI.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:21 - Learnings from going agency side to brand side
04:18 - How much does Amazon spend on advertising each year?
05:02 - Why Amazon still advertises using traditional media
06:21 - Why is Amazon’s creative so effective?
08:57 - Why Amazon’s advertising is so right brained
10:33 - Why Amazon make ads to run for 3-5 years
14:25 - Amazon re-airing the popular “Grannies” ad
17:00 - Why the industry is obsessed with youth
18:33 - The interesting numbers behind Gen Z and advertising
21:00 - Japanese Granny Ad from Amazon
23:07 - The only Cannes Lion Jon has ever won
26:11 - Using production to discover new stories
29:48 - Amazon’s CCO’s thoughts on AI and creativity
32:56 - Is AI used in the creative process at Amazon?
35:29 - How does such a big company stay so agile?
36:24 - What one thing has made the biggest difference for Jo?

Zaria Parvez was the creative mastermind behind Duolingo's social media success, having joined the company in 2020 fresh out of University. 5 years later, and after 8 billion impressions, she's left for her next challenge - taking on the social media for Doordash. We speak to Zaria to find out what the secret to the viral success is, and how she plans to replicate this at Doordash.

This episode is brought to you bySemrush— your unfair advantage in digital brand visibility. From fast-growing teams to global enterprises, Semrush shows you where you stand, where you can win, and how to stay visible across AI Search and LLMs. With unrivaled data and real AI intelligence, Semrush helps you move faster, grow faster, and make sure your brand is the answer wherever customers ask.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:34 - Why Zaria left Duolingo
01:32 - Why Zaria moved from Duolingo to Doordash
02:44 - Coping with a rapid career trajectory
04:58 - The big moments for Duolingo
07:00 - Can you plan virality?
08:30 - How important was it having Duo as a brand character
11:02 - Why Duolingo killed duo
13:23 - Sending Duo’s ashes to Dua Lipa
14:05 - What are the conditions that make a successful social media campaign
16:01 - How Zaria spots trends and turns them into content
17:41 - Thinking long term through a social media lens
19:39 - How to scale viral social media efforts
21:36 - Why who your boss is matters so much
22:52 - When things go wrong on social media
24:47 - Why Zaria built a personal brand
28:02 - What Zaria is hoping for in the future
28:59 - How is AI changing social media?
31:36 - Social media advice for podcasters
32:20 - How to cope with the intensity of working in social media
34:58 - The best marketers hate marketing
36:25 - Why you need to embrace boredom

Esi Eggleston Bracey is the Chief Marketing and Growth Officer of Unilever. Esi joined the company in 2018 and has served as President of Unilever USA and CEO of Personal Care in North America. Prior to this, she led their $5 billion Beauty & Personal Care portfolio for North America as EVP and Chief Operating Officer which included responsibility for brands such as Dove, TRESemmé, Suave, Vaseline, Degree, Axe and more. There's a reason why this is a brand building masterclass

Esi has been recognised with many industry awards including being named as one of Forbes World’s Most Influential CMOs, a Forbes Entrepreneurial CMO 50, Women’s Wear Daily Marketer of the Year, ADCOLOR Legend, Ad Age Vanguard Award and more.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:54 - From P&G to Unilever, Esi’s career journey
03:09 - How important is breadth of experience as a marketer
04:54 - How to increase your marketing budget
07:45 - Why Esi has growth in her title and not just Chief Marketing Officer
08:36 - The most surprising thing about running 400 brands
10:37 - What skills do marketers need to be successful today?
12:08 - Esi’s thoughts of AI in marketing
17:14 - How to win the hearts of your consumer
19:48 - Unilever’s SASSY framework for winning hearts and minds
21:45 - Why we buy more when we feel more
23:27 - The secret behind the groundbreaking Dove marketing
26:45 - Why Uniliver are spending 50% of media on social and 20x spend on creators
29:18 - How the Vaseline Verified campaign took off
30:37 - Unilever’s framework for successful social media campaigns
32:29 - Applying the SASSY Framework to innovation
35:19 - Unilever’s collaboration with Crumbl Cookies
37:42 - How Unilever uses AI
39:45 - Which Unilever brand would Esi buy?
41:46 - The power of consistency
42:43 - How do you nurture the next $1b portfolio brand

Nick Tran, is the CMO and President of First Round, leading Diageo’s new joint venture with Main Street Advisors to oversee two of the world’s most culturally driven spirits brands: Ciroc and Lobos 1707. Nick shares how he’s approaching brand reinvention vs continuation, why product innovation and cultural relevance are key, and what goes into long-term brand growth. We also touch on the future of social media, AI’s role in marketing, and what it takes to build a truly modern CMO career.

00:00 - Intro
00:36 - How the Diageo and Main Street Advisors partnership happened?
02:49 - The long term view for Ciroc and Lobos 1707
06:10 - The plan for Ciroc
08:57 - Reinvention vs continuation when transforming a brand
11:31 - Focusing on product innovation and serve for Ciroc and Lobos 1707
14:14 - Is alcohol drinking trending down?
19:00 - How do you become culturally relevant?
22:07 - Using the Liquid Death challenger mindset
24:08 - The role of celebrities and influencers for drinks brands
27:16 - Why Nick is investing in his personal brand
31:53 - What does it take to become a successful CMO?
37:04 - How Nick invests in other companies
41:59 - Nick Tran’s thoughts on AI
45:47 - Have we reached peak social media?
50:39 - Bonus Question

Nils Leonard, Uncommon Studio's co-founder and Creative Director is back, and the mic is hotter than ever. We're tackling why Uncommon is pushing the boundaries of out of home, including the divisive BA "Reflections" campaign, what Nils thinks of the energy in the US vs the UK, and why we have a lot of work to do if we want creativity to thrive in this country.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:52 - How did Uncensored CMO end up at Uncommon Studios
02:33 - What just Jon want to happen as a result of this episode?
04:45 - What does Nils want to happen as a result of this podcast?
06:10 - Nils' advice to founders wanting to start an agency
07:51 - Uncommon’s work with The Ordinary
13:38 - Why Uncommon loves out of home
15:31 - Uncommon’s out of home work with British Airways
22:20 - Uncommon's B&Q out of home
26:51 - Uncommon's Hiscox work
29:55 - Uncommon’s EA work
32:51 - Uncommon’s JD Sports work turning the lens on the community
37:45 - British Airway’s safety video
43:40 - The culture of creativity in the UK vs US
46:40 - Why Campaign’s"Turkey of the Week" is a terrifying reflection on the UK
48:52 - WPP and creativity
51:28 - Who killed creativity?
53:53 - What Brits can learn from Americans to bring creativity back

Entrepreneur, investor, and VaynerMedia CEO Gary Vaynerchuk joins us from Wine Library to share his unfiltered take on marketing in 2025. We cover everything from spotting consumer trends to staying authentic in the age of AI. Gary explains why generosity is his most powerful growth strategy, why the customer is always right, and which media channels are over or undervalued in 2025.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:03 - Being back at Wine Library
02:38 - Why the customer is always right according to Gary Vee
07:17 - Why Gary Vee doesn’t believe in luck
09:28 - How Gary Vee has managed to have so much reach
13:14 - The power of generosity
17:51 - Gary Vee’s advice on spotting trends
19:31 - Why you need to pay attention to the consumer
21:18 - What does good marketing look like according to Gary Vee
22:01 - Why social media is better than all other media channels
24:08 - Is TV advertising dead?
28:26 - Undervalued or overvalued: media channel edition
29:26 - Undervalued or overvalued: podcasts
31:34 - Undervalued or overvalued: LinkedIn
32:24 - Undervalued or overvalued: Email
33:26 - Undervalued or overvalued: sms/text
34:03 - Undervalued or overvalued: YouTube
35:29 - Undervalued or overvalued: search
38:39 - Undervalued or overvalued: TikTok
40:16 - Undervalued or overvalued: Twitter/X
42:29 - Undervalued or overvalued: New York Jets
44:54 - How do we maintain authenticity in the age of AI
49:00 - Gary Vee’s advice on how to execute on ideas

Will Guidara is the author of Unreasonable Hospitality and co-founder of the world’s #1 restaurant, Eleven Madison Park. He joins us to share how lessons from hospitality can be a huge competitive advantage for your brand. We discuss the power of small but impactful gestures, intelligent naivety, the 95/5 rule and investing in the things that can’t be measured but make all the difference.

Will also reflects on the mindset that took Eleven Madison Park to the top, what businesses can learn from restaurants, and how applying unreasonable hospitality can turn any customer experience into something truly extraordinary.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:00:57 - Will’s experience writing his book
00:02:11 - Getting 4 stars from The New York Times
00:04:43 - What marketers can learn from Unreasonable Hospitality
00:08:08 - Where did the term “unreasonable hospitality” come from?
00:14:13 - Why Will is fine being “The Dining Room Guy”
00:16:40 - Why Will added a beer sommelier - reverse benchmarking
00:20:29 - Intelligent naivety and the advantages of youth
00:23:30 - The power of small thoughtful gestures that make a lasting impact
00:27:22 - The 95/5 rule - how to succeed with things that cannot be measured
00:31:47 - Restaurant smart vs corporate smart
00:36:50 - Why you sometimes need conflicting goals
00:41:34 - Is the customer always right?
00:45:55 - Turning pain points into highlights
00:48:06 - How Will Guidara makes getting the bill a memorable experience
00:51:38 - Why nothing in the world can replace persistence
00:53:40 - Never waste a good crisis
00:56:52 - What Will would do at Cannes with no budget
00:59:56 - How Shake Shack kept 11 Madison Park going
01:00:48 - Which fast food chains does Will admire
01:03:51 - Hiring exceptional talent
01:06:17 - Getting siloed teams to work together in harmony
01:09:07 - What would you do if you knew you couldn’t fail

Jess Butcher MBE has built a career at the intersection of technology and consumer behaviour. She co-founded AR pioneer Blippar and has since turned her attention to a growing issue: how AI and social media are shaping our brains, behaviour, and wellbeing.

In this episode, Jess shares what she’s learned as a founder, why female entrepreneurs still struggle to access funding, and why she believes brands must take responsibility for the attention economy they help create. We discuss how “More Soul, Less Scroll” is encouraging healthier digital habits, and the practical steps companies can take to drive positive change.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:41 - Jess’ background as a female founder
05:56 - How Jon used Jess’ QR code startup
13:19 - Why Blippar ultimately failed
17:34 - The lessons from Blippar’s failure
21:30 - Why female founders struggle to get funding
25:50 - The characteristics of successful founders
31:15 - How AI is re-wiring our brains negatively
34:05 - Why social media is ruining our lives
40:09 - Why is this problem getting worse if we know about it?
44:17 - What ScrollAware is trying to do about the problem
48:38 - Which brands are taking responsibility for this problem best?
54:46 - Less Scroll More Soul sleeping bags

Craig Brommers, CMO of American Eagle, joins us to go behind the scenes of one of the most talked-about campaigns of the year; Sydney Sweeney for American Eagle. Craig reveals what really happened, why the brand partnered with Sydney, and how they handled the extreme social-media reaction. We discuss the data behind the campaign’s success, the decision to pause before responding, and what the advertising press got wrong. Craig also shares lessons in brand leadership, navigating public scrutiny, and what it takes to be a successful CMO in 2025.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:35 - The Travis Kelce x American Eagle collaboration
01:51 - Why American Eagle partnered with Sydney Sweeney
03:21 - Did American Eagle know the campaign was going to explode on social media
04:24 - What caused the extreme reaction to the campaign?
06:08 - The System1 scores for the Sydney Sweeney x American Eagle campaign
08:11 - How did it feel seeing the campaign come under so much scrutiny?
11:50 - Choosing to pause instead of reacting immediately
13:41 - Dealing with the personal side of some of the comments
15:09 - The actual results of the Sydney Sweeney campaign
16:51 - The reaction vs the media buy - what was the impact?
18:11 - When Jon almost closed the London Underground with Amaretto
20:53 - Did the advertising press get it wrong about the American Eagle campaign?
22:14 - Craig’s advice for other marketers facing a crisis
27:15 - Will American Eagle continue to work with Sydney Sweeney?
28:31 - Are we entering a “Jeans Wars” era?
29:40 - The product strategy for American Eagle
30:51 - How important are celebrity endorsements in Fashion
31:45 - What are the elements for success for American Eagle
33:26 - 3 things that make a successful CMO in 2025
39:56 - What does a successful CMO look like?
40:44 - The one thing to remember from this conversation

After an illustrious 37-year career in advertising, legend David Droga is stepping down as CEO of Accenture Song and retiring. Under his leadership, Song grew 8% to $20 billion in FY25, up from $19 billion the previous year. A fitting closing act for one of the industry’s most creative leaders.

In this second conversation with David, we reflect on his career, the lessons he’s learned, and what he would do if he were starting from scratch. From creativity’s place at the heart of business to the power of simple ideas, David shares the philosophies, failures, and insights that have defined his journey.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:45 - Lessons from being CEO of Accenture Song
00:06:01 - Why creativity needs to be at the forefront of businesses
00:11:01 - How technology can enable creativity, rather than kill it
00:18:42 - What is David Droga most proud of leaving as his legacy
00:27:40 - What what David Droga do if he were starting from scratch
00:29:59 - What are the traits of David Droga’s favourite clients
00:34:59 - What trends are overrated and underrated according to David Droga
00:40:52 - David Droga ideas that never saw the light of day
00:43:58 - The business that almost came before Droga5
00:46:49 - The size of the idea is 50x more important than the budget
00:48:10 - Droga’s best campaign on a small budget
00:56:31 - Power of building on a campaign platform
01:02:06 - The power of simple ideas
01:07:48 - The most "Aussie" thing Droga has ever done

Richard Shotton, author of The Choice Factory and the newly released Hacking the Human Mind, joins us to explore the behavioural science behind the world’s most iconic brands. From Guinness’ 119.5 second pour to Red Bull’s unconventional rise, Richard explains the psychological shortcuts that drive consumer decisions. We cover why 4-star reviews beat 5-stars, the secret behind Liquid Death’s success, and how humour, jingles, and even “concrete expressions” can help brands stick in our minds.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Start
01:07 - Why Richard is launching a new book
02:54 - Why Guinness takes 119.5 seconds to pour
05:46 - Why a 4 star review is better than a 5 star review
07:50 - Why the Pratfall effect is so powerful
11:00 - Why Aperol Spritz has become so popular
18:18 - The behavioural science behind the Liquid Death success
21:06 - Why consistency works according to behavioural science
27:49 - Why Red Bull succeeds while defying convention
34:15 - The labour illusion; Dyson Example
41:03 - Why does the “You’re Not You When You’re Hungry” strapline work
43:01 - Why we need to use humour more
45:12 - Why has KFC dominated the fried chicken market?
49:41 - The secrets behind the success of Pringles
53:58 - Why jingles stick in our heads
58:23 - How Apple used “Concrete Expressions”

Dame Carolyn McCall OBE is the CEO of ITV, the UK’s biggest commercial broadcaster. She was previously CEO of The Guardian Media Group and easyJet, and currently serves as President of The Marketing Society.

This year marks 70 years of TV advertising, celebrated with the launch of the new report, Living Room Legends, which explores the best ads of the past seven decades.

Dame Carolyn joins Jon to discuss the report, why TV advertising is here to stay, and to reflect on some of the greatest ads of all time.

Timestamps
00:00 – Intro
00:42 – 70 years of advertising
02:11 – Carolyn’s vision for the future of marketing
04:15 – Why we need more marketers on boards
05:25 – How a CMO can become a CEO
08:15 – Overseeing the UK’s biggest commercial broadcaster
11:35 – How ITV is competing with global streaming giants
13:19 – How ITV collaborates with the streaming giants
15:15 – The recipe for a long-term hit TV show
17:37 – Is TV advertising dead?
22:47 – Is TV effective for Gen Z?
24:31 – The Living Room Legends report, celebrating 70 years of advertising
27:08 – The most emotional ad for Carolyn
28:06 – What ads have made Carolyn McCall laugh
29:10 – Advertising campaigns that have changed culture
31:42 – Airing an ad within 72 hours of Christian Eriksen’s cardiac arrest
32:23 – Which campaigns have improved over the years
33:34 – The best examples of romanticising the product
35:13 – Why more SMEs are advertising
35:52 – The future of TV advertising

What separates an ordinary manager from an extraordinary leader? Psychologist, best-selling author, and former NBA player John Amaechi joins us to explore the qualities that define great leadership in today’s world. From self-awareness and vulnerability to empowering others and giving credit, John shares why intimidation fails, how to harness your personal value proposition, and why leaders must keep learning.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:17 - Reflecting on masculinity
00:03:42 - What does “ordinary” actually mean?
00:07:51 - Discovering your personal value proposition
00:09:24 - Going from functional manager to leader
00:15:03 - Misconceptions on leadership
00:17:16 - Is Trump having an effect on how we see leadership?
00:19:22 - Why intimidation is a terrible leadership tactic
00:23:14 - The importance of self awareness as a leader
00:29:56 - Do highly accomplished people lack self assurance?
00:32:58 - The desire to learn and having vulnerability
00:40:37 - The importance of giving people credit
00:44:22 - Accessing your library of experiences
00:51:53 - Reconising our own weaknesses
00:57:03 - The power of empowering others
00:59:41 - Do different generations lead differently?
01:02:49 - How to find time to learn as a leader

What makes a world-class CMO? In this masterclass, we’re joined by Jane Wakely, CMO of PepsiCo, and Neil Barrie, founder of 21st Century Brands, to explore the strategies that drive growth of billion dollar brands. We discuss why CFO partnerships matter, how to reappraise established brands, and why creativity, whether through celebrity campaigns or a giant Cheetos thumb, still drives results. Plus, Jane and Neil share practical lessons on making change happen inside complex organisations.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:28 - What are the attributes of a successful CMO?
07:57 - Why Neil created the CMO Thrive Guide
10:32 - Surprising things about Neil’s CMO research
12:44 - How Jane approached the first 90 days at PepsiCo
16:27 - The importance of the CFO and CMO relationship
22:22 - How marketers can influence the boardroom
25:44 - Managing over 20 $1b+ brands
27:52 - Navigating the complexity of a huge portfolio
32:25 - How large brands can “Stay Up”
34:49 - Why you should reappraise brands
41:05 - The impact of celebs in advertising
44:45 - Why the Cheetos giant thumb was effective
47:51 - PepsiCo’s involvement in Women’s sport
52:41 - How to make change happen in an organisation

Returning guest and everyone's favourite marketing professor, Mark Ritson, is back. As usual, Mark comes out firing with some no nonsense advice to all marketers. He talks about AI taking over his Mini MBA, leaving Marketing Week, why pricing is the most important P and some rules for creativity. Sit back and soak up the knowledge from Mr Mark Ritson.

Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
01:06 - Why Mark Ritson sold Mini MBA
02:12 - Mark Ritson leaving Marketing Week
04:19 - Jon’s favourite AI use case
08:07 - Will AI take over Mini MBA?
11:38 - What marketers think is different to what customers think
12:58 - Mark Ritson on that Sydney Sweeney ad
16:15 - The Creative Dividend: what makes great marketing in 2025
27:45 - Why marketers need to be involved in the 4 Ps
30:30 - Why pricing is so important (and why marketers should be involved)
38:28 - The absence of strategy and what to do about it
42:38 - What has surprised Mark Ritson most in 2025
43:09 - Why AI is being marketed so poorly
49:58 - The power of synthetic data

Ella Mills is the co-founder of Deliciously Ella, which began in 2012 as a simple blog sharing healthy recipes. What started online quickly grew into bestselling books, a #1 mobile app, and eventually a retail brand of healthy snacks. In 2024, Deliciously Ella was acquired for an undisclosed sum and today Ella is building her next venture, All Plants.

Her journey is inspiring, and in this episode we explore every milestone: from securing her first Starbucks listing, to navigating a failure that nearly sank the business, to proving how an “average” person can create a truly global brand.

Ella's podcast, The Wellness Scoop:
https://open.spotify.com/show/7F6YqGJ06UEuD7qG81tFHw

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:01 - The Deliciously Ella founding story
06:16 - When did the Deliciously Ella blog start to take off
11:22 - Dealing with overnight attention and success
13:33 - How can an average student become so successful?
15:03 - How to nail a successful book launch
17:16 - Scaling a personal brand
21:08 - What’s it like running the business with your husband?
24:00 - Going from recipe blogs to making retail products
24:53 - How Deliciously Ella landed in Starbucks
33:18 - Building out the product range
35:04 - Behind every success is a bunch of failures
41:07 - Managing risk vs return when scaling a startup
45:29 - How to make products that are successful in retail
49:53 - Why Ella took over a new brand after selling Deliciously Ella
52:30 - Where is the plant based market headed?
56:22 - Why Ella started a podcast?

David Gluckman, the man who invented Baileys and author of That S**t Will Never Sell, joins us to share stories from his legendary career in brand creation. From the birth of iconic drinks (including Purdey’s, Aqua Libra, Cîroc and Tanqueray) to lessons on creativity, innovation, and risk-taking, David reflects on what it really takes to bring bold ideas to life.

Timestamps
00:22 - The founding story of Baileys
04:32 - Naming Baileys
12:18 - How Purdey’s and Aqua Libra began
22:48 - Starting Cîroc and Tanqueray
33:26 - Principles of innovation

Jonny Bauer has helped transform some of the world’s biggest brands, from revitalising Axe (Lynx for UK listeners) at BBH to building strategy from the ground up at Droga5. In this episode, Jonny shares why brand can become a company’s greatest asset, what he learned moving from agencies to private equity at Blackstone, and how to bring brand to the front of the P&L. Plus, how to win CEO buy-in, build long-term strategy, and the case studies that prove the power of brand-led growth.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:58 - Why we never celebrate the strategy behind good campaigns
04:03 - What Jonny is most proud of from his time at BBH
06:27 - Transforming Lynx / Axe brand
09:34 - Building strategy from the ground up at Droga5
15:23 - Best strategy outcomes at Droga5
17:47 - From ad agency to private equity
28:39 - Learnings from Blackstone on running a successful business
32:34 - How Blackstone approaches marketing
33:50 - How to bring the brand up to the front of the P&L
37:06 - How to get brand buy in from your CEO
40:11 - Leaving Blackstone to use this approach on other clients
47:17 - Successful case studies

Fernando Machado is one of the world’s most celebrated CMOs, known for game-changing campaigns like Burger King’s “Moldy Whopper.” In this episode, Fernando shares the work he’s most proud of, why surprising campaigns cut through, and how creativity drives real business growth. We also discuss the most innovative non-advertising ideas from his career, what it takes to be an influential CMO, and his advice for startups looking to scale through bold marketing.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:30 - What campaigns has Fernando been most proud of throughout his career
07:57 - The Moldy Whopper Campaign
16:55 - Why surprising campaigns are effective
20:52 - The most creative non-advertising things in Fernando’s career
36:05 - How to be an influential CMO
41:46 - Fernando’s advice to marketing startups
51:39 - The Lions Growth MBA

Matt Pohlson is the co-founder of Omaze, a platform that’s raised over £300m for charity through once-in-a-lifetime prize draws. Matt shares how a life-changing moment shaped his mission, the business model behind giving away luxury homes and cars, and why storytelling and consistent advertising have fuelled Omaze’s success. Plus, the challenges of the founder journey and his advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:32 - Matt’s near death experience
03:08 - How a near death experience has changed Matt
06:56 - Omaze origin story
10:18 - Shifting from US celebrity to UK focused prizes
13:24 - Do Omaze buy the houses, cars and luxury items?
14:22 - The business model of Omaze
18:09 - Why storytelling is so important for Omaze
24:52 - Why Omaze make so many ads
28:16 - Omaze’s advertising success through consistency
31:27 - The most challenging parts of Matt’s founder journey
33:59 - Matt’s advice to aspiring founders

Is Jaguar’s bold rebrand a stroke of genius or marketing madness? We sit down with Rawdon Glover, Managing Director of Jaguar, to unpack the strategy behind one of the most dramatic relaunches in automotive history. From pausing sales to redesigning the brand from the ground up, Rawdon shares how Jaguar is reinventing itself for a younger, electric-first generation and talks about the visceral response from the launch video.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:53 - Rawdon’s journey into the automotive industry
02:34 - A challenging time to be at the helm of Jaguar
04:03 - Deciding between evolution and revolution at Jaguar
09:05 - Why new car buyers are getting younger
12:23 - Making the decision to rebrand Jaguar
15:45 - Creating differentiation in the age of electrification
18:46 - Designing the new Jaguar
24:43 - What the Jaguar Owners Club think of the new car
27:27 - The polarising Jaguar launch video
33:14 - Dealing with the visceral reaction to the rebrand
36:22 - How Jaguar will launch the car
39:29 - Choosing to pause selling cars
41:28 - Waymo’s partnership with Jaguar
45:04 - When will the new Jaguar go on sale

In partnership with NBCUniversal, we sit down with Tyler Bahl, CMO of Activision, to explore what it takes to market some of the world’s most successful games, from Call of Duty to Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Tyler shares insights on launching blockbuster titles, the evolving gaming landscape in 2025, and how livestreaming, esports, and AI are transforming the industry. Plus, lessons from 23 editions of Call of Duty, surprising audience insights, and working directly with icons like Tony Hawk.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:54 - Tyler’s time at Quibi
02:33 - State of the gaming industry in 2025
04:14 - Tony Hawk Pro Skater Surprise
05:35 - The demographics of the video game consumer
08:16 - How to launch a video game
10:47 - How live streaming and esports has transformed video gaming
14:10 - Ratio of male vs female video game players
16:28 - Is video game success due to the product or the marketing?
18:00 - The success and longevity of Call of Duty
19:13 - Maintaining marketing success after 23 editions of Call of Duty
20:36 - “The Replacer” campaign execution and success
22:21 - Measuring success
23:28 - How Activision do partnerships for game launches
25:35 - How Activision makes sports games
27:39 - Future sports games from Activision
29:42 - What impact is AI having on gaming?
31:40 - Working with Tony Hawk on the launch of the new game
32:46 - Lesson’s from Tyler’s career

In this episode, produced in partnership with NBCUniversal, we sit down with Todd Kaplan, CMO of Kraft Heinz, to uncover the marketing “secret sauce” behind some of the world’s most iconic brands. Todd shares lessons from driving 21 quarters of growth at Pepsi, why simplicity beats complexity in marketing, and how he’s bringing an entrepreneurial spirit to Kraft Heinz. We also dive into working with agencies, building in-house creative, and what makes a truly great CMO.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:30 - Todd’s background
01:41 - How Pepsi achieved 21 consecutive quarters of growth
02:36 - Pepsi’s approach to innovation
04:22 - Battling short term vs long term in innovation
05:20 - From 18 years at Pepsi to joining Kraft Heinz
06:41 - Encouraging an entrepreneurial culture within Kraft Heinz
09:10 - Having an in house agency at Kraft Heinz
12:10 - Todd Kaplan’s tips for working with external agencies
16:28 - Why consistency of the brand is important for Kraft Heinz
18:55 - Creating marketing that actually works
24:39 - The best marketing is simple
27:44 - What makes a great CMO?

In partnership with NBCUniversal, we sit down with Grainne Wafer, Global Category Director (Beer, Vodka, Liqueurs) at Diageo, to explore how one of the world’s biggest drinks companies drives growth and builds iconic brands. Grainne shares the trends shaping the beverage industry, the transformation of Baileys, and how Diageo manages a portfolio of global powerhouses like Guinness. We also discuss the value of sports sponsorships, the rise of Guinness 0%, and why marketing effectiveness is always on tap.

00:00 - Intro
01:19 - What are the trends in the beverage industry?
03:25 - What are the up and coming portfolio brands for Diageo?
05:01 - How does Diageo manage brands internally?
06:30 - Is Diageo going to sell Guinness?
08:42 - What’s behind Diageo’s 17% YoY growth?
12:03 - Guinness sport activation with Rugby and Football
12:36 - How Guinness 0% is so close to the original
14:23 - Guinness’ sponsorship of Football and Rugby
16:26 - How to do measure the value of a sponsorship of the Premier League
17:39 - When the UK ran out of Guinness
18:08 - Sponsoring the Women’s Six Nations
21:44 - How Diageo broadly measures the impact of marketing
23:57 - Baileys celebrates 50 years
25:22 - How Baileys was transformed
27:23 - The Diageo way of brand building
31:38 - Grainne’s advice to CMOs

To celebrate 200 episodes, Tom Goodwin is back on Uncensored CMO. He's got a pretty strong opinion on the state of advertising. It's broken, and we need to fix it. Tom lays out where he thinks it's all gone wrong for the industry and what we can do about it. As uncensored as ever, Tom brings an entertaining and fresh perspective on marketing. Strap in.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:50 - The state of advertising in 2025
02:40 - Why is the advertising industry not moving forward?
06:13 - Brand vs performance marketing
09:20 - What’s broken with marketing in 2025
11:54 - How to actually be customer centric
17:23 - Winning internal battles to allow long term work to thrive
21:18 - Is performance marketing fraud?
26:23 - How to make advertising better
33:02 - Are we valuing creativity enough

In partnership with NBCUniversal, we sit down with Kory Marchisotto, CMO of e.l.f. Beauty, to unpack a 25 quarters of consecutive growth. From their bold “So Many Dicks” campaign to the $1B Rhode deal with Hailey Bieber, Kory shares how e.l.f. built a culture that fuels growth. We also dive into the power of creators and celebrities in beauty, partnerships with sporting icons like Billie Jean King and racing driver Katherine Legge, and the realities of leading as a high-growth, publicly listed CMO.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:40 - The last decade of Elf
01:35 - The Titanium and Glass Cannes Lions entry
03:01 - Elf’s “So Many Dicks” campaign
10:01 - The secret to 25 quarters of consecutive growth
13:36 - Building a culture that allows growth
17:03 - $1b Rhode deal
24:26 - How important are creators and celebrities in building beauty brands
26:37 - Collaborating with Billie Jean King
30:49 - Partnering with Katherine Legge, racing driver
34:16 - The realities of being a high growth, publicly listed CMO

Simon Morris is Adobe’s VP of International Marketing, joins us to share how Adobe is empowering creativity at scale. We discuss the impact of AI on marketing, why creativity will always need human skills, and how Adobe partners with brands like Real Madrid to build iconic campaigns. Simon also shares what makes a great marketing leader today, how to launch products successfully, and what’s next for AI and creators.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro
00:43 - The size of the Cannes activation for Adobe
01:38 - Simon’s marketing career
04:21 - Adobe’s CEO named creative champion of the year
05:46 - Where has AI had the biggest impact in marketing?
08:14 - Will AI replace creativity?
09:35 - Where will human skills be most required in the age of AI?
14:21 - How Adobe are their own customer
15:10 - What campaigns have been made with Adobe’s own software?
16:19 - How brands can work with creators?
17:59 - Freedom for creators vs sticking to guidelines
19:16 - How to successfully launch a new product
20:59 - Partnering with sports teams to build their brand (Real Madrid)
23:25 - Maintaining trust in Adobe AI products, with potential IP worries
26:16 - Whats the next thing in AI we need to pay attention to?
28:37 - Building a brand for long term when the world is increasingly short term
29:56 - What makes a great marketing leader today?

In collaboration with TikTok, System1 have launched a new research paper called "The Long and the Short Form of It", explaining how brands can navigate and excel in this of this new world of short form content. In this episode I catch up with TikTok's Head of Business Marketing and Partnerships to discuss the research and help brands succeed on the platform.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
02:05 - Sofia’s marketing career
04:04 - Why B2B marketing needs to be more human
05:36 - TikTok’s marketing journey over the past 5 years
06:48 - How brands can use TikTok
10:47 - How brands can work with creators on TikTok
14:20 - How to make a TikTok that captures attention
18:18 - The TikTok economy
21:18 - Why authenticity pays off on TikTok
22:57 - How people can get started creating on TikTok
25:30 - Is TikTok just for teenagers?
26:51 - TikTok as an entertainment platform, not as a social media platform
27:54 - Romancing the creative vs proving the value
32:00 - Sofia’s leadership lessons

After 20 unhappy years as a headhunter, it took a near death experience for Sherilyn Shackell to launch The Marketing Academy, a non-profit organisation developing leadership talent in marketing. Launched in 2010, The Marketing Academy now helps marketers become CMOs and CMOs become CEOs. This episode, we focus on exactly how CMOs can get a seat at the table in the boardroom and all the traits they need to do this successfully.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:53 - How a near death experience led to the creation of The Marketing Academy
08:29 - Does trauma help founders?
11:27 - What is The Marketing Academy?
15:05 - How The Marketing Academy Fellowship helps CMOs become CEOs
20:08 - Why there needs to be CMOs on boards
27:03 - What CMOs can do to get on boards
35:36 - Why CMOs need to build their own profiles
39:23 - Why CMOs need to invest in relationships
44:16 - Why having a personal brand is a talent magnet
45:48 - The biggest fears and anxieties of CMOs
54:34 - What marketers can learn from the best CMOs in the world?

In a bonus live episode from Cannes, Professor Scott Galloway joins renowned CMO Kory Marchisotto (e.l.f. Beauty) and advertising legend Rory Sutherland to discuss three big topics: Is brand dead? Are we too risk-averse? And what is the future of the CMO?

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:26 - Is the era of brand dead?
13:54 - Do we need to make better advertising?
20:11 - How CMOs can approach risk
31:09 - The demise of the CMO

Ben Branson is the founder of Seedlip, a non-alcoholic spirit brand he started in 2015, and sold 3 years later to Diageo. Jon speaks to Ben about the origins of the brand, how the grew so fast, what makes Ben such an impressive marketer (despite him not liking marketing) and how a brand goes from 0 to exit in such a short space of time. We also talk about Ben's new brands and his Hidden 20% charity.

Timestamps
00:00:00 - SIntro
00:01:01 - Where did the idea for Seedlip come from?
00:14:14 - Charging a high price
00:18:47 - How to push through the hard times
00:21:10 - What led to such large growth in the early days of Seedlip
00:24:29 - Planning for success vs making it up as you go
00:27:44 - The power of intelligent naivety
00:29:30 - Creativity within budget constraints
00:31:05 - From innovator to scale up
00:38:05 - Why did Ben Branson and Seedlip sell to Diageo?
00:40:26 - What Ben doesn’t like about marketing
00:41:25 - Why Ben is a masterful marketer
00:48:51 - The Hidden 20%: Ben’s autism story and charity
01:00:35 - Why Ben wants to close his charity, The Hidden 20%?

The B2B boys Jon Lombardo and Peter Weinberg return to the podcast for a third time, this time wearing their new distinctive assets. They go hard on Professor Scott Galloway, disagreeing with his "brand is dead" statement, suggesting that not only is brand not dead, it's alive, thriving and you need it for your brand to survive. They also give us an update on their synthetic research company, Evidenza, and what the future of brands look like in the age of AI.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
02:07 - How is Evidenza going?
03:36 - Why Evidenza have embraced distinctive assets
08:29 - Why Jon and Peter disagree with Scott Galloway on brand
17:20 - The future of brand in the age of AI
21:21 - The 95:5 rule reinvented
27:48 - Why brand efforts compound
30:00 - Why brand matters more in B2B than B2C
38:49 - The Evidenza jingle
41:03 - What marketing questions can now be answered with AI
55:17 - What is the future of AI for research

I speak to Airbnb's CMO, Hiroki Asai, fresh off their 2025 Summer Release, where they announced their brand new "Services" and "Experiences" addition to the platform. This now positions Airbnb as the perfect alternative to a hotel when travelling. Hiroki touches on how they have launched this massive new innovation, why they do all their creative work in-house and rounds off with some poignant advice to marketers.

Timestamps

Since Elon Musk acquired X (formerly Twitter) in 2022, the platform has undergone dramatic changes; slashing headcount, losing major advertisers, and redefining its identity. Now, under CEO Linda Yaccarino and marketing lead Angela Zepeda (formerly of Hyundai), X is staging a comeback. Angela joins Jon to discuss her leap from automotive to tech, rebuilding advertiser trust, and the bold vision of turning X into “the everything app.”

They cover the platform's role in breaking news, championing free speech, and why brands are flocking back.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:39 - From Hyundai to X: Angela’s leap
03:46 - Leading marketing when everyone has an opinion
05:56 - Free speech and platform identity
07:45 - Why news breaks on X
13:11 - X as a place to think differently
15:58 - The rise of sports on X
19:35 - Helping brands join the conversation
26:16 - Winning back advertisers
34:25 - What advertisers gain from returning
36:06 - How X markets itself
39:58 - The “everything app” vision
42:54 - Integrating Grok AI
47:20 - How advertisers can win on X