The Lawfare Podcast

Senior Editor Michael Feinberg talks with Lawfare Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee and former CIA Case Officer John Sipher about John Ratcliffe’s tenure as the Director of Central Intelligence and cultural changes in the intelligence community writ large.

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This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Lawfare Senior Editors Kevin Frazier and Roger Parloff, andLawfare Contributing Editor and Vice President of Research, Security and Defense at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs Ariane Tabatabai, to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including:

In object lessons, Kevin is putting the “community” in community college with high praise for the AI Literacy initiative in Alabama. Roger seams to think that the Bayeux Tapestry at the British Museum in London is knot your average exhibit. Scott finds weekend mornings watching Hilda with his kids to be a magical, enchanted adventure. And Ari is decidedly not in the Middle of Nowhere with her love for the new Kacey Musgraves album. 

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Senior Editor Michael Feinberg sits down with Eileen Guo, co-author with Gisela Perez de Acha and Martin Sona of “How ideas of a vast censorship network moved from the online fringe to Trump policy,” and senior reporter with the MIT Technology Review, to discuss her research into whether the “censorship-industrial complex” was an actually entity or a pretextual justification to dismantle the government’s anti-disinformation apparatus.

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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sits down with Constanze Stelzenmüller, Director and Fritz Stern Chair of the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution, to discuss what’s going on in the German political scene, where a far-right party, the AfD, is making a strong showing in state elections. They talk about what the party stands for, why its emergence is alarming the pro-democracy community, and what it all means for Germany, for Europe, for the United States, and for the future of Western democracies.

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On today’s episode, LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Zoe Kurland, Senior Producer at Marfa Public Radio, and Terence O’Rourke, an attorney based in Houston, Texas. They discuss “A Whole Other Country,” the Edward R. Murrow Award-winning six-part podcast series, hosted and produced by Kurland, that tells the story of a secessionist movement in the mid-90s called the “Republic of Texas.” They talk about the group’s dubious legal claim that the federal government had improperly annexed Texas back in 1845; how its leader, Rick McLaren, styled himself “Ambassador of the Republic of Texas” and sought international recognition; and why McLaren, in the midst of a hostage crisis of his own making, picked up the phone to call O’Rourke to represent him. 

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In a conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Associate Editor Peter Beck and Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss an Afghan legal permanent resident deported less than 2 months after case is filed in the Alien Terrorist Removal Court, updates in the Grand Conspiracy, a judge allowing the Pentagon to fire Stars and Stripes journalists, developments in President Trump’s attack on mail voting, litigation over the use of SAVE data for elections, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From June 10, 2020: David Frum is one of the most prominent and eloquent conservative critics of the president. The former George W. Bush speechwriter and current writer for The Atlantic has written "Trumpocalypse: Restoring American Democracy," a book about the Trump presidency, and in this case, what comes after it. David joined Benjamin Wittes for a wide-ranging conversation of the ground he covers in the book: how you rebuild after Trump, how you satisfy elements of Trumpism without letting them descend back into authoritarian populism, what policies and approaches a new administration should take and how we should treat the "Trumpists" and their most diehard supporters.

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From December 11, 2023: The Senate last week failed to move forward the national security supplemental, which includes a large package of aid for Ukraine. The holdup? Migration at the southern border and Republican insistence that the administration and Democrats will have to swallow major policy changes in order to get the Ukraine aid through. Meanwhile, the mood in Kyiv is a little down. The counteroffensive did not go as planned, the U.S. aid situation and the European commitment to Ukraine is alarming, and domestic politics are returning after a hiatus during the first couple years of the war.  

To chew over the state of Ukraine and its support from the United States, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a former CIA Ukraine analyst, and Molly Reynolds, LawfareSenior Editor and Congressional Guru. They talked about the state of the Ukraine aid package in Congress, about whether a deal on the border is possible, about whether such a deal could pass the House, and about Ciaramella's recent trip to Kyiv and the mood there as Congress dithers.

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On today’s episode, on the 25th anniversary of 9/11, LawfareAssociate Editor Katherine Pompilio sits down with five members of the Lawfareteam—Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee, Senior Editor Michael Feinberg, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett, Senior Editor Loren Voss, and Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes—to talk about how Sept. 11 shaped the U.S. national security apparatus and the guests’ careers. 

Together they examine what the country's national security institutions looked like before 9/11, which of the legal and institutional structures built in response have outlived their original purpose, and what a younger generation—one that has never known anything else—should understand about the world those structures were built to answer.

ReadLawfare's collection"9/11 at 25: The Legal Architecture of the War on Terror, Twenty-Five Years On,"examining how 9/11 remains—or doesn't—embedded in current legal and policy frameworks, a quarter century after the attacks.

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This week, Scott celebrated the fifth anniversary of Rational Security 2.0 with the return of co-hosts emeriti Shane Harris, Quinta Jurecic, and Benjamin Wittes. In varying degrees of witheringness, the four sat in brutal judgment of this year’s Hot Take Takedown pitches:

Which takes are too cold and bland, which are too hot and spicy, and which are just right? Listen in and decide for yourself!

Meanwhile in object lessons, Shane introduces us to GrandpaSpy on Instagram, bringing out the “wholesome, family fun” side of espionage. Quinta has a pleasant encounter with a “Cool Machine.” Scott remembered Rational Security 2.0’s anniversary before he remembered his own wedding anniversary but celebrates them both. And Ben revisits an old, unfinished pandemic project, much to Scott’s chagrin.

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Over a year ago, President Trump sent 800 National Guard members to the streets of Washington D.C., citing a purported crime emergency. Since then, thousands of armed troops have been deployed in D.C.—usually traveling in groups of four or more, seemingly always armed. 

On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sits down with Brad Heath, a reporter at Reuters, who has been reporting on the Guard’s presence in D.C.. He recently published an article, titled “Trump put thousands of soldiers on Washington’s streets. They seldom stop crime.” They talk about what he found after reviewing thousands of criminal cases charged in D.C. Superior Court, what he learned from talking to everyone from National Guard members to D.C. officials, and how it all maps onto the legal analysis of whether the Guard is operating lawfully in D.C. 

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On today’s episode, LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Ambassador Nina Hachigian, President and CEO of the Alliance for Local Leaders International and the first U.S. Special Representative for City and State Diplomacy from 2022 to 2025.

They discuss Hachigian’s recent piece in Foreign Affairs, entitled "The Autocrat’s Worst Enemy: Why Despots Hate Cities and the Mayors Who Run Them,” how cities are both “laboratories of democracy” and backstops against democratic backsliding, and what U.S. mayors can learn about resisting autocracy from their counterparts abroad.

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In a conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss Judge Boasberg’s denial of the government’s motion to dismiss Lawfare‘s suit seeking information on international agreements entered into by the Trump administration; developments in President Trump’s targeting of mail voting; updates in litigation over the Triumphal Arch; a judge ruling that the Trump administration acted unlawfully when it used national security to revoke the legal status of students who espoused pro-Palestinian views; and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From October 24, 2022: Last month, the George Washington University Program on Extremism published a report called, “Mayhem, Murder, and Misdirection: Violent Extremist Attack Plots Against Critical Infrastructure in the United States.” To talk through that report and a recent Lawfare article on the topic, Lawfare managing editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Ilana Krill, a research fellow at the Program on Extremism, and Seamus Hughes, the program's deputy director. They discussed the white supremacists and Salafi-jihadists who make up these movements, the encrypted channels through which propaganda and plans are spread, and what's to be done to protect critical infrastructure in the United States.

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From September 28, 2021: Over the weekend, Germany held elections to see who will succeed Angela Merkel as Germany's chancellor. The results are in, but there's still a lot of coalition building to go. To break it all down, Jacob Schulz sat down with Constanze Stelzenmüller, the Fritz Stern Chair on Germany and trans-Atlantic Relations and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and Yascha Mounk, an associate professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced and International Studies, both of whom are experts in German politics. They talked about the election, how to make sense of the results, and what everything means for the bigger picture of European politics, Germany's role in the world and more.

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From March 29, 2023: We live in a time of seemingly constant catastrophes, and we always seem a step behind and still fumble when they occur. It's no longer about preventing disasters from occurring, but learning how to use the tools at our disposal to minimize the consequences when they inevitably do.

Juliette Kayyem has just written a book about it all called, “The Devil Never Sleeps: Learning to Live in an Age of Disasters.” Juliette is a lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government and a CNN national security analyst, and David Priess sat down with her to talk about it all. They talked about the traditional focus of the disaster framework; consequences minimalization; the paradox of preparedness; and a variety of disasters and what we can learn from them, ranging from the Y2K incident, to Super Bowl XLVII, to the shipping incident in the Suez Canal back in 2021. They talk a lot about how to recover from disasters, and how to deal with them in a way that stops the bleeding and keeps them from getting worse, even as they’re occurring.

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When Congress passed the CHIPS Act in 2022, it was the first major piece of U.S. industrial policy legislation in decades and was intended to expand America's ability to manufacture the computer chips that are vital for everything from AI to phones and modern automobiles. Mike Schmidt, distinguished visitor at Princeton University's Griswold Center for Economic Policy Studies and a non-resident senior fellow at the Institute for Progress, was the first employee of the Commerce Department office tasked with turning the CHIPS Act into an actual program that is today supporting the construction of hundreds of billions of dollars of new semiconductor factories in places from Arizona and Texas to New York. 

Schmidt joins LawfareContributing Editor and host of the Security Economics podcast Peter Harrell to discuss how the CHIPS program came together, challenges in implementation, and lessons for U.S. industrial policy in other critical sectors. 

This episode is part of the Security Economics podcast series, in which Peter Harrell and guests explore the intersection of economics and national security, how countries manage their economies to support national security, and how they deploy economic tools in support of geopolitical objectives.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Senior Editors Molly Roberts and Eric Columbus, and Contributing Editor Renée DiResta, to talk through the week’s big domestic news stories, including:

In object lessons, the summer has left most of our crew hungry for more. Eric is eating up the tropical goodness of certain (glass-free) Outshine fruit bars. Molly is savoring the simplicity of an in-season tomato. Scott is perfecting his process for perfect pizza. And Renée stands alone snackless, squeezing out the last of her summer stress with a NeeDoh squishy.

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Peter Salib, Associate Professor at the UH Law Center and co-Director of the Center on AI Law & Risk, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to break down the postmortems produced by METR and Redwood Research and OpenAI on the lab’s failure to contain AI agents undergoing testing, which resulted in a hack of Hugging Face.

The duo briefly cover the timeline of what exactly transpired and explore the technical reasons and policy decisions that allowed the hack to transpire. They then reflect on what that means for the broader AI evaluation ecosystem.

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In a conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Molly Roberts and Roger Parloff to discuss the Supreme Court granting a stay of the district court's preliminary injunction, allowing President Trump to continue to build the White House ballroom while litigation is ongoing, and the information about the U.S. Postal Service's system for handling mail ballots released by a whistleblower to Senator Blumenthal.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s homepage on the litigation, Bluesky account, and WITOAD merch.

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Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Tricia Bacon, professor at American University, and Antonia Juelich, International Security Lead at the Cambridge Programme on AI Science & Policy (CASP), to talk about how different terrorist groups are using artificial intelligence and how governments are employing AI to fight them. They discuss how Boko Haram and other terrorist groups are using AI to become more deadly, terrorist group problems with using AI, the risk of catastrophic AI-enabled terrorism, and what governments and companies need to do better.

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In a conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, Kate Klonick, and Eric Columbus to discuss a judge finding the Pentagon’s supply chain risk designation of Anthropic unlawful, significant developments in the litigation challenging President Trump’s mail in ballot executive order, the prosecution of Representative LaMonica McIver, a filing from Trump suggesting that the Kennedy Center may be torn down, a district judge denying Minnesota’s motion to extradite an indicted ICE agent, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From March 5, 2025: For today's episode, Lawfare general counsel and senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Edward Fishman, a senior research scholar at the Center for Global Energy Policy within Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, to discuss his new book: "Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare."

They discussed Fishman's own career at the cutting edge of economic statecraft, the evolving toolkit it has come to present U.S. policymakers, the role he thinks it will play in our new era of major power competition, and what it may all mean for the future of the global order.

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From February 11, 2022: Over the past few weeks, Canada has been living through its own insurrectionary moment, as a series of trucker convoys have used tractor trailer trucks to occupy much of downtown Ottawa, launch protests in other major Canadian cities, and block points of entry along the country's southern border with the United States. While nominally objecting to Canadian vaccination mandates, particularly as applied to truckers, the convoy movement has at times made even more ambitious demands, including the dissolution of the Trudeau government, and it has close ties to far right-wing nationalists and ethno-nationalist organizations, both in Canada and the United States. While the convoy movement began in Canada, there are signs that is beginning to spread, with similar efforts appearing in Australia and New Zealand and intelligence reports suggesting the same may soon happen in the United States.

To put these recent developments in context, Scott R. Anderson sat down with three Canadian national security experts who have been following the convoy crisis closely: Amarnath Amarasingam, assistant professor at Queen’s University; Stephanie Carvin, associate professor at Carleton University; and Jessica Davis, president of Insight Threat Intelligence. They discussed the origins of the convoy movement, its relationship with domestic violent extremism and what it might mean for both Canada and the rest of the world.

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Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Natan Sachs, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, to discuss who is likely to win the October 27 Israeli elections and what the consequences might be for wars in Gaza and Iran as well as Israeli domestic politics. They also talk about the role of small parties and how Trump might sway the vote.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes, Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee, and Contributing Editor Alex Zerden to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:

In object lessons, Ben is not giving away his shot to call out the Daily Caller on not delivering on its headline. Julia is reminding us of her love of all things Lawfare. Scott reminds us that the world may never be the same after seeing it through the eyes of a poet. And Alex is bobbing his head to his reimagining of Bombs Over Baghdad.

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Kenji Yoshino, Chief Justice Earl Warren Professor of Constitutional Law at New York University School of Law and a member of Meta’s Oversight Board, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, and guest co-host Lawfare Senior Editor Kate Klonick, to discuss what frontier AI companies can learn from the Oversight Board. Yoshino recently co-authored a Tech Policy Press piece with fellow Board member Ronaldo Lemos arguing that meaningful AI oversight should feature independent and representative overseers, external standards, and transparent, reasoned decisions.

The trio tests that proposal against some of the hardest questions raised by the Oversight Board’s own experience. Can a selective, precedent-setting institution provide meaningful oversight at AI scale? What gives a privately created board legitimacy to constrain decisions with global consequences? What powers would an AI oversight body actually need? And when does private oversight complement democratic regulation—and when might it merely give corporate power a new source of legitimacy?

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

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Lawfare Public Service Julia Curlee has written an article on the incentives facing intelligence community members when they are purged from government. Entitled “The Censorship Machine: Silencing the National Security Workforce,” and published on August 26, the piece explains why more former public servants are not speaking out about what they saw in government. She and former FBI Special Agent Mike Feinberg, now a Lawfare senior editor, joined Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss the article, the pressures former officials are facing not to talk, and the sheer numbers who are keeping quiet.

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Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Andrew Yeo, senior fellow and the Korea Foundation Chair at the Brookings Institution’s Center for Asia Policy Studies and professor of politics at The Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., to talk about Trump's decision to engage in talks with North Korea's leader while curtailing military exercises with South Korea. They discuss what might be expected from negotiations with North Korea, how Seoul perceives Trump's policy changes, and how curtailing military exercises will affect South Korean and U.S. capabilities.

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From September 13, 2023: On August 30, soldiers and high-ranking officers of the Armed Forces of Gabon seized control of government buildings and communication channels in the capital city of Libreville, detaining Gabon’s President Ali Bongo in his residence and declaring an end to the Bongo family’s 56-year rule. It was a coup—one of nine in the last three years in West and Central Africa, including in Niger just one month prior.  

LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien spoke with Naunihal Singh, author of the book Seizing Power: The Strategic Logic of Military Coups, to discuss the spate of coups in the region, the origins of coups, what makes certain countries more coup-prone than others, and the rise and fall of anti-coup norms during and after the Cold War. They also dispelled several coup myths, including the myth of the coup contagion.  

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From April 11, 2025: For today's episode, LawfareForeign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Tom Karako, the Director of the Missile Defense Program at CSIS, to discuss the Trump administration's missile defense proposals known as "Golden Dome." Karako explains the purpose of Golden Dome, its feasibility and cost, the likely reactions of China and Russia, and what realistic success would look like.

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In a conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Eric Columbus to discuss Chief Justice Roberts issuing a stay of the injunction preventing the construction of the White House ballroom, updates in the prosecution of Don Lemon, two courts of appeal ruling against acting U.S. attorneys, developments in the Kennedy Center litigation and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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Matt Abrams, technologist, investor, and co-founder of $1 Billion for Trust, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor atLawfare, to discuss the collapse of institutional trust and how AI may accelerate—or potentially help reverse—that trend.

The conversation explores Matt’s work to rebuild trust in information ecosystems, interpersonal relationships, and major institutions. Along the way, the duo examine the relationship between AI, information integrity, labor disruption, institutional legitimacy, and democratic resilience.

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

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The Justice Department has empaneled a special grand jury in Washington, D.C., according to a new report from the Washington Post. But what, exactly, is so special about a special grand jury? 

Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Senior Editor Anna Bower to discuss that very question, which Bower answers at length in her latest Lawfare article. Bower and Wittes talk about how special grand juries work, what federal law actually permits them to do, and why turning one loose to investigate purported crimes can, on occasion, backfire on the prosecution.

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In this episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Ukrainian historian Yaroslav Hrytsak to discuss the history of Ukrainian-Polish relations, the controversies surrounding the Volhynian tragedy, and how the politicization of history can impact Ukraine’s bid to join the European Union. 

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Lawfare Senior Editor Kate Klonick is joined by three guests to discuss their recent article for the Council on Foreign Relations on the FINRA-style AI regulator reportedly under White House review: Vinh Nguyen, former chief AI officer at the National Security Agency and now CFR’s Senior Fellow for Artificial Intelligence; Elham Tabassi, former chief AI advisor at NIST and now director of Brookings’ AI and Emerging Technology Initiative; and Kat Duffy, CFR’s Senior Fellow for Digital and Cyberspace Policy and director of LEAD AI.

The conversation follows recent news of Demis Hassabis’s July 14 framework calling for a U.S.-led Frontier AI Standards Body and a subsequent Bloomberg reportthat Treasury Secretary Bessent is involved in reviewing a version of the proposal. They discuss the problems but benefits with a FINRA-like model and what that means for public trust before the body even launches, especially for allies abroad who may be reluctant to treat an American, industry-funded body as an international standard-setter.

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Julia Curlee was a long-time CIA officer; she served as Vice President Mike Pence’s briefer for more than a year; and she was a senior NSC official when the second Trump administration began. She is also a trans woman. In two articles published recently—this one on Lawfare and this one today in The Atlantic—she describes the purge of the NSC in the first 70 days of Trump’s second presidency. In the Lawfare article, she talks about the institutional damage to U.S. national security. In The Atlantic article, she talks about the personal side—how she was considered too essential to let go even when everyone else was fired. That lasted until the moment it became public that she was trans. Curlee, who currently serves as a public service fellow at Lawfare, sits down with Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about both articles, the purge at NSC, and being trans in an administration that badly needed her expertise but didn’t let her use the bathroom.

Learn more about and support Lawfare's Public Service Fellowship on our Givebutter page.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Molly Roberts, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff to discuss a fired Justice Department prosecutor challenging his firing, a nationwide preliminary injunction against President Trump’s mail-in ballot executive order, the new birthright citizenship order, and more..

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From December 3, 2024: Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor and Georgetown professor Daniel Byman sits down with Charles Lister, Director of Syria and Countering Terrorism & Extremism Programs at the Middle East Institute for an update on the Syrian opposition taking Aleppo and the prospects for the civil war going forward. They discuss the status of the Syrian conflict; the nature of the key group, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham; why conflict happened now; and what might happen going forward. You can watch a video version of their conversation here.

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Anil Seth, Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience and Director of the Sussex Centre for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine whether artificial intelligence could ever be conscious.

Drawing on Seth’s essay, “The Mythology of Conscious AI,” the pair attempt to define consciousness, develop the strongest arguments for and against machine consciousness, and assess what the current evidence can—and cannot—tell us. They also discuss the risks posed by AI systems that are perceived to be conscious and what AI labs, policymakers, and users should do amid profound uncertainty.

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

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This week, Scott sat down with hisLawfare colleagues Alan Rozenshtein, Michael Feinberg, and Loren Voss to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:

In object lessons, Mike is descending into madness; that is, the Dark Horse Comics manga adaptation of H.P. Lovecraft’s “At the Mountains of Madness.” Alan is being sucked into the black hole of binge reading “The Expanse” novel series (and then Alan and Scott nerd out to sci-fi generally; bear with it). Scott is voting “yea” on playing “Yea or Nay” today. And Loren is diving into handwritten primary source documents, and you can, too!

Note: We'll be on vacation next week, so be on the lookout for our next episode on August 27!

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Weeks after Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky fired Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov, the fallout is still reshaping Kyiv's political landscape. Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina is joined by Danylo Mokryk, a war crimes investigator at the Kyiv Independent and the author of a YouTube blog about domestic Ukrainian Politics, to unpack what's happened since Federov's departure. 

They discuss the dismissal of General Syrskyi, Fedorov's rejection of a hollow "vice prime minister" role, and his rise in the polls despite having no formal political ambitions. They also dig into why Zelensky refuses to explain his personnel decisions to the public, why the shrinking street protests may actually be a bad sign for the president, the reshuffling of appointments across Ukraine's security services, and what all of this says about the erosion of institutional trust during wartime.

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Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Contributing Editor Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the Center Project, for the latest installment of their podcast series on developments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Together, they discuss the Trump administration's new plan for Gaza, why Israel doesn't appear to be on board with it, related developments in Lebanon and the West Bank, and how it is all intersecting with Israel's impending elections.

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On August 6, LawfareSenior Editor Kate Klonick sat down for a live discussion on Substack with Renée DiResta, Associate Research Professor at Georgetown’s McCourt School of Public Policy and a Lawfare contributing editor, about her new piece with Ronald Robertson on Grokipedia, the AI-generated encyclopedia. DiResta and Robertson found that Grokipedia’s edit-review queue froze around April 24—with over 13,000 suggestions stuck “in review” and zero resolved in the last three months—with no announcement to users or contributors.

They discuss the methodology of how DiResta and Robertson reconstructed a site-wide activity leaderboard using Grokipedia’s search typeahead, since the site publishes no rankings itself; how a mass rewrite on March 14 broke the anchors linking suggested edits to specific text, retroactively relabeling some accepted edits as “rejected”; and how the new AI information ecosystem is being shaped by out-of-date but open-access resources with no accountability.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Eric Columbus, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the Trump administration requesting the Supreme Court stay the district court’s order halting the enforcement of the mail-in voting executive order, updates on where TPS stands following the Supreme Court’s order, developments in the Reflecting Pool prosecution, the D.C. Circuit blocking the ballroom construction and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From February 20, 2025: On Jan. 29, President Trump ordered the expansion of facilities at Guantanamo Bay to hold migrants being deported from the United States. It was the latest—and perhaps most aggressive—move to deploy the U.S. military in pursuit of the administration's immigration policies. And it's not at all clear that there's a solid legal basis for doing it. Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Chris Mirasola, Assistant Professor at the University of Houston Law Center and author of a recent piece in Lawfare on this subject, to talk through the legal issues, the administration's strategy, and what it all means for Trump's unconventional use of the military.

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From March 28, 2025: For today's episode, LawfareForeign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Natan Sachs, the Director of the Middle East Program of the Brookings Institution, to discuss Israel's turbulent domestic situation and the renewal of the conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon. Sachs explains Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's political tactics, the controversies over the budget, judicial reform and the resulting protests, and the sacking of figures like Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar. Sachs also discusses why Israel has decided to renew operations in Gaza and Lebanon and why strikes on Iran are more likely than in the past. 

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Daniel Kokotajlo, former OpenAI researcher and executive director of the AI Futures Project, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to detail his policy recommendation—AI 2040: Plan A. It’s a thorough analysis of a policy pathway to delaying superintelligence, which Daniel and his co-authors think is necessary to ensure that the disruptive effects of highly-capable AI systems do not outweigh the benefits. 

Kevin asks Daniel to explain scenario scrutiny, address feedback from other AI policy stakeholder such as Tom Davidson, and detail what led him to already alter his estimation of how likely it is that policymakers adopt Plan A.

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

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This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett, Lawfare Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee, and Lawfare Contributing Editor and Vice President of Research, Security and Defense at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs Ariane Tabatabai, to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including:

In object lessons, Ari has a message for competitive spouses: build something together and try Cozy Stickerville. Julia has a message for Secretary Hegseth with her 1950’s CIA poster: “ We Are Looking for a Few Good Women.” Scott has a message for the makers of By Jove to bring back a childhood classic. And Natalie has a message for litigators navigating uncertain waters: she sees you and appreciates you.

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On August 5, LawfareSenior Editor Kate Klonick sat down for a live discussion on Substack with Georgetown Law Professor Steve Vladeck to discuss his forthcoming Harvard Law Review Foreword, “The Court Against the Courts,” which chronicles institutional attacks on the lower federal courts. Vladeck argues not just that the Court failed to shield district judges from impeachment threats and harassment campaigns, but that it bears “significant responsibility” for what’s happened to them. 

For more on this, Vladeck also wrote about the article on his Substack.

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On today’s episode, LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Bernice Yeung, the managing editor at the U.C. Berkeley School of Journalism investigative reporting program and author of a recent feature, “The rise of the military-technology complex,” published in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. They discuss the bumpy history of Big Tech’s relationship with U.S. defense contracting, how Silicon Valley has reshaped the Pentagon, and how, in turn, the Pentagon has reshaped Silicon Valley.

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Some countries are susceptible to believing that with the right military strategy, they can accomplish their goals with a quick war. It's called the "Short War Illusion," and as the term suggests, it rarely works out as planned. That includes the two major conflicts currently underway in Ukraine and Iran. And it could include a potential conflict in Taiwan.

On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett speaks with Dara Massicot, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment’s Russia & Eurasia Program; Ariane Tabatabai, Vice President at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and a contributing editor at Lawfare, and Julia Curlee, Lawfare Public Service Fellow and 25-year veteran of the CIA. They discuss how the short war illusion is playing out today and how it could play out in a future conflict between China and Taiwan—a topic Julia considered in her recent piece in Lawfare, “The Short-War Illusion: What Iran Teaches Beijing About Taiwan.”

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Georgetown Law Professor Peter Harrell and Senior Editors Eric Columbus, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff to discuss legal challenges to President Trump’s new tariffs, recent motions by James Comey in the ‘86 47 seashell’ prosecution, developments in the Reflecting Pool prosecution, a hearing on Anthropic’s summary judgement motion challenging their supply chain risk designation, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From October 17, 2024: Jonathan Zittrain, Faculty Director of the Berkman Klein Center at Harvard Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to dive into his recent Atlantic article, “We Need to Control AI Agents Now.” The pair discuss what distinguishes AI agents from current generative AI tools and explore the sources of Jonathan’s concerns. They also talk about potential ways of realizing the control desired by Zittrain. For those eager to dive further into the AI agent weeds, Zittrain mentioned this CSET report, which provides a thorough exploration into the promises and perils of this new step in AI’s development. You may also want to explore “Visibility into AI Agents,” penned by Alan Chan et al. 

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From February 26, 2025: On Feb. 24,  Fiona Hill (Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Center on the United States and Europe), Constanze Stelzenmüller, (Director at the Center on the United States and Europe; Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Center on the United States and Europe; and Fritz Stern Chair on Germany and Trans-Atlantic Relations), Anastasiia Lapatina (Ukraine Fellow, Lawfare), Tyler McBrien (Managing Editor, Lawfare), and Benjamin Wittes (Editor-in-Chief, Lawfare) recorded a live discussion at the Brookings Institution on "Trump’s return and the fate of Ukraine" and Lawfare and Goat Rodeo's new narrative podcast series on the U.S. and Ukraine, Escalation. 

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Tyler McBrien, Anastasiia Lapatina, and Kevin Frazier to talk through a couple of the week’s big national security news stories, including:

In object lessons, Tyler is revisiting a renewed classic with the 4k restoration of the 1986 documentary, “Sherman’s March: A Meditation on the Possibility of Romantic Love in the South During an Era of Nuclear Weapons Proliferation.” Nastya returns to George Orwell’s “Homage to Catalonia,” as a reminder that both physical and information warfare are not unique to our time. Ben enlists an old friend—Claude—to investigate one of American law's enduring mysteries: how many federal crimes actually exist. Kevin is celebrating student-led conversations on how AI should be governed. And Scott revisits Max Weber on the nature of science while also celebrating emojis other than the hugging face.

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Kent Walker, President of Global Affairs at Google and Alphabet, joins Kevin Frazier to discuss Google's proposal for a two-pronged approach to AI governance: a Frontier AI Regulatory Organization, which like FINRA, would operate as an independent, industry-based governance body overseen by a federal agency and the application of existing laws to widely-deployed, less capable systems.

The two also discuss the timing behind this proposal and its relevance in light of the recent Hugging Face / OpenAI incident.

Follow Kent: @kent_walker

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Lawfare Book Review Editor Jonathan Cedarbaum sits down with the Soufan Center’s Executive Director Colin Clarke and Senior Research Fellow Chad Serena, to discuss the Center’s recent report, “Closing the Gap: Software Understanding and U.S. National Security.” They explore what the authors call the “software understanding gap”—the growing disconnect between the rapid pace of software development and our ability to fully understand, assess, and secure increasingly complex systems. They discuss how adversarial state actors and criminal groups can exploit this gap, the ways in which it poses a national security challenge, and what government agencies, private industry, and software developers can do to better mitigate risks and strengthen U.S. cybersecurity.

Additional reading:

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On today’s episode,LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien brings you a series of edited conversations from the 2026 Aspen Security Forum, where he sat down with host and founder of the Global Dispatches Podcast and Editor-in-Chief of UN Dispatch Mark Leon Goldberg, American Enterprise Institute Senior Fellow and Director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies Kori Schake, Lawfare Contributing Editor and the founder of Capitol Peak Strategies Alex Zerden, and President and CEO of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Alexandra Bell. 

They discussed the U.S.-Iran war, what’s left of bipartisanship in the Trump era, who from the current administration did—and didn’t—come to Aspen this year, what urgent foreign policy issues were missing from the agenda, and much more.

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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett speaks with Fionnuala Ní Aoláin, a professor at University of Minnesota Law School and a Commissioner on the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria. They talk about the Commission's work investigating atrocities that occurred after the fall of the Assad regime, how to think about Syria's new government and the international community's response to it, and what it all says about global counterterrorism strategies.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareSenior Editors Eric Columbus, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff discussed a hearing over the subpoenas sent to New York Times reporters, a hearing in the criminal case against Nicolas Maduro, the court-appointed U.S. attorney in the Western District of Washington suing over his termination, the first convening of the Alien Terrorist Removal Court, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From March 21, 2025: For today's episode, LawfareForeign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Gregory Johnsen, a non-resident fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, D.C. Johnsen explains the rationale of the Trump administration's decision to bomb Yemen but argues that it will have little effect on the Houthis. Indeed, Johnsen contends that the Houthis are spoiling for a fight with the United States and Israel, believing that this will generate support within Yemen that will help them increase their power.

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From October 16, 2024: In early September, the U.S. Justice Department released a trove of information about the Russian influence campaign known as “Doppelganger”—a Kremlin-backed effort that created faux versions of familiar news websites and seeding them with fake material. Just a few weeks later, the German publication Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that it had received a tranche of hacked materials from inside the Doppelganger operation. 

Thomas Rid, a professor at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies and the founding director of the school’s Alperovitch Institute for Cybersecurity Studies, got an inside look at those documents. In a new article in Foreign Affairs, “The Lies Russia Tells Itself,” he examines the “granular operational insight” that this material provides into the active measures campaign. He joined the Lawfare Podcast to talk withLawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic about his findings—and why he believes the documents show that “the biggest boost the Doppelganger campaigners got was from the West’s own anxious coverage of the project.”

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New York Times White House Correspondents Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan speak with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff about their recent bestseller, “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump.”

They discuss how close Trump has come to suspending habeas corpus and invoking the Insurrection Act, how the Supreme Court’s immunity decision has shaped his conduct, his vindictive prosecutions and desire for more, his firings of national security professionals at the behest of Laura Loomer, and more.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee and Senior Editors Eric Columbus and Molly Roberts to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:

In object lessons, Julia strums to the strifes it seems we can’t escape. Eric compliments the coordinated collection of compost. Scott salutes Mr. The Frog and friends who are back on the small screen (and then gets scooped on another Muppet story). And Molly marvels at one of her many military morale patches. 

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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sits down with Liza Goitein and Joseph Nunn of the Liberty and Security Program at the Brennan Center, and Lawfare Senior Editor Loren Voss. They talk about the state laws governing the National Guard—what they allow, what they prohibit, and what it means for domestic deployments in the United States. What is the National Guard allowed to do, especially when operating in a hybrid status where the mission is defined by the president but the governor retains command and control? State laws are complex, varied, and sometimes facially unconstitutional. 

The Brennan Center recently published a compendium of those state laws at https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/state-and-territorial-laws-governing-national-guard. 

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On today’s episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks to Francis Farrell, a front line reporter at the Kyiv Independent, about the Ukrainian president’s decision to replace the country’s Minister of Defense, the mass protests it caused, and how the decision will impact the course of the war.

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On today’s episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks to Fabian Hoffman, a senior research fellow at the Programme for Ukraine and Full-Spectrum Threats at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies, about what it would take for Ukraine to produce Patriot interceptor missiles, if the United States had given it the license to do so.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down withSenior Editors Eric Columbus, Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the confirmation hearing for acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, subpoenas sent to New York Times reporters, a judicial opinion voiding President Trump’s settlement with the IRS, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From August 25, 2023: Earlier this month, there was big trouble in little Marion, Kansas, where an entire police department raided the offices of the Marion County Record, a small, family-owned newspaper about 60 miles north of Wichita, with seven employees and a circulation of about 4,000.

To discuss this alarming violation of press freedom, LawfareManaging Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Caitlin Vogus, Deputy Director of Advocacy at the Freedom of the Press Foundation. They talked about what motivated the raid, how it went down, and the chilling effect this kind of thing can have on small town newspapers and big media organizations alike. They also discussed what journalists—from lone freelancers to sizable newsrooms—can do to protect themselves from all manner of press freedom violations. 

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From February 3, 2025: Nema Milaninia, a former prosecutor at the International Criminal Court and International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia and a current partner at the law firm King & Spalding, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss legislation in the U.S. Congress and recent executive actions taken by the Trump administration to, once again, sanction the International Criminal Court. 

Milaninia discusses what is motivating the most recent sanctions campaign, broke down the many criticisms—some legitimate, some less so—against the Court, and explained why sanctions, which are typically reserved for criminal organizations, would benefit no one. He also speaks about how, despite the ICC's best efforts to insulate itself, sanctions pose an existential threat to the institution.

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On July 17 at 11am ET, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Michael Feinberg and Molly Roberts and Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta to discuss President Trump's primetime address on July 16 where he discussed elections.

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Lawfare Senior Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Senior Editor Kate Klonick and Elissa Redmiles, an assistant professor of computer science at Georgetown University. They examine the people who create AI-generated sexual content and whether prominent technical proposals can actually prevent AI systems from generating exploitative content.

For further reading:

Please note that this podcast discusses sexual violence and the harms of image-based sexual abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

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This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman, Lawfare Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee, and Lawfare Contributing Editor and Vice President of Research, Security and Defense at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs Ariane Tabatabai, to talk through the week’s big news in foreign policy, including:

In object lessons, Dan reviews the movie The Invite, and it’s complicated. Ari reviews Israeli jazz musician Avishai Cohen’s new album “Eternal Child” and is totally engaged. Scott remembers the influential life and career of Lindsey Graham, separating himself from any alleged involvement in a long-ago gym-mat scandal. And Julia is in love with post-SCIF life, especially one in which she can work from the serenity of her mother’s paradisiacal porch.

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On today’s episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks to Maria Snegovaya, a senior fellow for Russia and Eurasia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, about how the Ukrainian attacks on Russian energy sites are shifting attitudes towards the war inside Russia. They also discuss Maria’s latest report, co-authored with Jade McGlynn, called “Russian Attitudes Are Shifting as the War’s Effects Come Home.”

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On this episode, Senior Editor Kate Klonick speaks with Steve Feldstein, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, about his recent Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists essay on AI targeting systems. Feldstein argues that the conventional wisdom about AI warfare has it backwards: the technology's battlefield debut in Iran, Ukraine, and Gaza is real and consequential, but AI targeting is not a model you download—it's a stack of surveillance infrastructure, data pipelines, battle management software, and strike capacity that takes decades and billions to build, which means it will spread far more slowly and unevenly than the common narrative suggests.

Among the things they discuss: what the Iran War's staggering Maven numbers do and don't prove, how Israel became the case study in what it actually takes to build an AI kill chain, why the same handful of American tech companies that govern online speech now supply the infrastructure of targeting—and who is accountable when they do, whether the UAE is next, and whether export controls, or norms, can realistically slow any of it down.

Additional resources:

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Lawfare Contributing Editor Mykhailo Soldatenko sits down with Eric Ciaramella, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Samuel Charap, Senior Political Scientist at the RAND Corporation, to take stock of the U.S.-led negotiations between Ukraine and Russia. They discuss the improvements in Ukraine's position, the structure of negotiations, territorial questions, and security commitments to Ukraine.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down withSenior Editors Eric Columbus, Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the Justice Department settling a second suit with Michael Flynn, developments in the E. Jean Carroll litigation, the D.C. Circuit denying a stay pending appeal of the order to take Trump’s name off the Kennedy Center, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From October 30, 2024: The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has taken a leading role in coordinating efforts to secure the 2024 election—from ensuring the physical security of election workers, to protecting election systems from cyber threats, to identifying foreign influence campaigns and preparing for deepfakes. With a week until Election Day, Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Eugenia Lostri spoke with CISA’s Cait Conley, Senior Advisor to the agency’s director, about how CISA is working to protect the vote. 

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From April 10, 2025: On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett spoke with Tara Varma, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, about the latest in French politics. On March 31, far-right leader Marine Le Pen was convicted of embezzlement and banned from politics, though polling showed her in the lead for the 2027 presidential elections. In the last few weeks, current French president Emmanuel Macron has been carving out a place for French leadership amidst the upheaval in Europe’s relationship with the United States. Meanwhile, the push to build European defense capacity—and Trump’s new tariffs—are raising a lot of complicated questions.

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On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Carissa Véliz, an associate professor at the Faculty of Philosophy and the Institute for Ethics in AI, as well as a tutorial fellow at Hertford College, at the University of Oxford. They speak about Véliz’s paradigm-shifting, free-ranging new book, “Prophecy: Prediction, Power, and the Fight for the Future, from Ancient Oracles to AI,” including discussions on the history of prediction, why a healthy democracy—and a life well lived—requires uncertainty, and Véliz’s belief that “artificial intelligence is the new Oracle of Delphi and tech executives the new prophets.”

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Editor in Chief and co-host emeritus Benjamin Wittes and Senior Editors Anna Bower and Michael Feinberg to talk through the latest in national security news, including:

In object lessons, everyone is in a unifying mood. Ben demonstrates how RAGtime, his co-creation with AI overlord Claude to develop and analyze datasets, can find common cause between this week’s co-hosts. Mike is enthusiastic about the new Criterion Collection bringing together all of Stanley Kubrick’s works. Scott is reaching for perhaps humanity’s greatest unifier—a certain beverage that can be enjoyed across political persuasions and coasts alike. And Anna is bringing us all to the world of personal essays with Jo Ann Beard’s “The Fourth State of Matter.” 

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For today's episode,LawfareSenior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Vox Senior Correspondent Joshua Keating to discuss his special new series on how artificial intelligence is impacting the use and development of nuclear weapons. Together, they explore what AI may mean for nuclear command and control moving forward, how it is impacting nuclear arms development, how these trends are intersecting the breakdown of the global nonproliferation regime, and what it all means for the risk of nuclear escalation moving forward.

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Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes talks with Executive Editor Natalie Orpett and Senior Editors Loren Voss and Molly Roberts about the limits the Constitution and statutes put on the use of military in U.S. elections—as well as the arguments an eager executive might make to skirt those restrictions. They discuss how the history of domestic deployment law shows that legislators have long believed voting deserves special protection from military involvement. They also explain why, ahead of the 2026 midterms, that isn't as reassuring as it might sound.

For more on this topic, see two recently published articles by Orpett, Voss, and Roberts in Lawfare on how the law does—and doesn’t—keep the military out of elections.

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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talks with Lawfare Senior Editor Mike Feinberg and Lawfare Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee about the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, or ODNI, which was created to oversee the intelligence community. But much like the IC itself, the ODNI is somewhat mysterious to the general public—which makes it difficult to tell when something is going wrong. They talk about what ODNI does, why it exists at all, and how recent developments are undermining its mission.

Read more of Mike and Julia’s analysis in their recent article in Lawfare, “Gradually, and Then Suddenly: The Decline and Fall of ODNI.”

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareEditor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down withSenior Editors Eric Columbus, Kate Klonick, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the Supreme Court’s rulings in the birthright citizenship case and Slaughter, indictments over purported vandalism at the Reflecting Pool, former CIA Director John Brennan’s civil suit against the Department of Justice, geofencing warrants, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From September 1, 2023: The National Intelligence Strategy is out, and David Kris, a founder of Culper Partners, sat down to talk about it with Michael Collins, the acting head of the National Intelligence Council. They discussed many aspects of U.S. national security, defense, cyber, and intelligence strategy, including the increasing geopolitical significance of non-state entities, and even the meaning of the word intelligence itself. They also cover Mike's long and illustrious career inside the U.S. intelligence community and his thoughts about the future of U.S. intelligence.

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From July 2, 2025: For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviews Lindsay Cohn, an associate professor at the Naval War College and Columbia University, to discuss the Trump administration's handling of the U.S. military. Cohn discusses the firings of senior military officials, military parades, and the U.S. military at the U.S-Mexico border and in Los Angeles. She also assesses which policies are of genuine concern and which are overstated. 

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From September 24, 2024: Israel and Hezbollah seem to be headed for a major war. Over the past several weeks, Israel has taken a series of escalatory steps along its northern border, targeting major Hezbollah figures, blowing up pagers used by thousands of Hezbollah operatives, and—most recently—hitting targets all over southern Lebanon associated with Hezbollah. Will it lead to all-out war? 

Lawfare’s Editor-in-Chief, Benjamin Wittes, sat down with Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman to talk over the latest developments between Israel and its most capable military foe.

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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talks with Nick Bednar, a professor at the University of Minnesota Law School and a contributing editor at Lawfare. They talk about two Supreme Court cases issued last week that will have a huge impact on the president's authority over agencies that Congress set up to be independent. In Slaughter v. Trump, the Court held that the president has the power to remove members of independent agencies who had previously been understood to have employment protections that forbade the president from firing them. In Cook v. Trump, the Court carved out a special exception to that rule for the Federal Reserve. They discuss Nick's recent article for Lawfare,what the opinions say, what they fail to say, and what it means for the workforce that makes the federal government function.

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Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Professor Javier Corrales, Dwight W. Morrow 1895 Professor of Political Science and Department Chair of Political Science at Amherst College, to discuss the Trump administration's efforts to pressure Cuba and support regime change there. They discuss why the Cuban regime stays in power, the effectiveness of different U.S. policy instruments used against Cuba, why Professor Corrales thinks that the Venezuela approach probably would not work in Cuba, and what a post-communist Cuba might look like.

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On this episode of Lawfare Daily, Senior Editor Kate Klonick and Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein speak with Cory Doctorow—science fiction author, activist, journalist, adviser to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and the writer who coined "enshittification"—about his new book, “The Reverse Centaur's Guide to Life After AI.” Doctorow argues that the most important thing about the AI boom isn't what the technology can or can't do, but the historic investment bubble and the new arrangements of work being built on top of it—the same analytic lens he brought to platform decay, now turned on AI.

They discuss whether the AI bubble will actually burst or merely deflate, and the unit economics underneath it; the "reverse centaur," the worker conscripted to serve the machine; and how it maps onto a broader culture and questions of AI "knowledge collapse," the human analogue to AI model collapse.

Additional Resources:

This episode also ran as an episode ofScaling Lawswith an introduction from Alan Rozenshtein. FindScaling Lawson the Lawfare website, andsubscribeto never miss an episode.

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In a live conversation on YouTube, LawfareExecutive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down withSenior Editors Eric Columbus, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the Supreme Court’s decisions on TPS for Haitians and Syrians and in an asylum processing case, a federal judge squashing portions of President Trump’s election executive order, John Bolton pleading guilty, an update in the criminal prosecution of the Southern Poverty Law Center, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From June 4, 2016: This week, the Brookings Institution held an event on a new Brookings report on implementation of the Iran Deal: 

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) adopted by Iran and the P5+1 partners in July 2015 was an effort not only to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons but also to avert a nuclear arms competition in the Middle East. But uncertainties surrounding the future of the Iran nuclear deal, including the question of what Iran will do when key JCPOA restrictions on its nuclear program expire after 15 years, could provide incentives for some of its neighbors to keep their nuclear options open.

In their Brookings Arms Control and Non-Proliferation Series monograph, “The Iran Nuclear Deal: Prelude to Proliferation in the Middle East?,” Robert Einhorn and Richard Nephew assess the current status of the JCPOA and explore the likelihood that, in the wake of the agreement, regional countries will pursue their own nuclear weapons programs or at least latent nuclear weapons capabilities. Drawing on interviews with senior government officials and non-government experts from the region, they focus in depth on the possible motivations and capabilities of Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates for pursuing nuclear weapons. The monograph also offers recommendations for policies to reinforce the JCPOA and reduce the likelihood that countries of the region will seek nuclear weapons.

On May 31, the Brookings Arms Control and Non-Proliferation Initiative hosted a panel to discuss the impact of the JCPOA on prospects for nuclear proliferation in the Middle East. Brookings Senior Fellow and Deputy Director of Foreign Policy Suzanne Maloney served as moderator. Panelists included H.E. Yousef Al Otaiba, ambassador of the United Arab Emirates to the United States; Derek Chollet, counselor and senior advisor for security and defense policy at the German Marshall Fund; Brookings Senior Fellow Robert Einhorn; and Brookings Nonresident Senior Fellow Richard Nephew.

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From April 16, 2020: On this episode of Lawfare's Arbiters of Truth series on disinformation, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic spoke with Camille François, the Chief Innovation Officer at Graphika, where she works to identify and mitigate disinformation and misinformation online. On April 15, Graphika released a report on an Iranian influence operation focused on COVID-19, an operation blaming the United States for supposedly creating the virus and praising China’s response to the pandemic. Camille discussed what Graphika found and how this campaign compares to similar operations in the past—like another campaign from Ghana that Graphika helped uncover, which was linked to Russia and posted content aimed at black Americans. And they discussed the “ABC framework” that Camille has developed to understand disinformation campaigns.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Kevin Frazier, Roger Parloff, and Molly Roberts to talk through some of the week’s big news in AI, including:

In object lessons, Molly sticks to the script for this week’s episode with her call-out of Erik Nitsche’s “Atoms for Peace” poster series for General Dynamics. Also inspired by this week’s theme, Kevin dives into some “light summer reading” about technology, globalization, and the law with “Rules for a Flat World,” by Gillian Hadfield. Roger, similarly, is “unwinding” with “The Winter Warriors,” by Olivier Norek, a novel about the lesser-known David vs. Goliath story of Finland taking on the Soviet Union in 1939. And Scott says enough already! He’s headed on vacation next week, and so is Rational Security. We’ll be back with a new episode and a rejuvenated Scott on July 9.

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Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare, speaks with Robert Wright—author of "Nonzero," "The Moral Animal," "The Evolution of God," and "Why Buddhism Is True," and the writer behind the NonZero Newsletter and podcast—about his new book, "The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning," which argues that AI is an evolutionary threshold on the scale of the entire history of life, that we are collectively failing to grasp its magnitude, and that rising to the challenge will require both new forms of international governance and an expansion of human moral and cognitive perspective.

The conversation covers the multiple meanings of the book's title and what it means to view AI from a "cosmic" perspective; whether the public is finally starting to "feel the AGI" and where skepticism about AI's capabilities now comes from; how large language models are trained and Wright's claim that we have built "machines that create machines that think"; whether these systems genuinely understand, what Searle's Chinese Room and Nagel's "what is it like to be a bat?" have to do with it, and the open question of AI moral patienthood; the two families of AI risk—bad actors empowered by AI versus AI itself going rogue—and why the near-term disruption to jobs, relationships, and security may matter most; the "But China!" argument against AI regulation, China hawkishness, and why Wright thinks racing toward superintelligence is dangerously destabilizing; the case for "global governance" over "world government" and the perils of concentrating AI power at home; and why a book about AI and geopolitics closes with a call for mindfulness, cognitive empathy, and transcending the psychology of tribalism.

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Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes and Senior Editor Michael Feinberg discuss the methods and techniques the FBI used to investigate Donald Trump as part of the Arctic Frost investigation, and whether critiques of the FBI’s steps hold up.

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Brandon DeBot and Kelsey Merrick, of NYU’s Tax Law Center, speak to Senior Editor Roger Parloff about Attorney General Todd Blanche’s purported waiver of President Trump’s past tax liabilities on May 19, as part of a settlement of Trump’s $10 billion suit against the IRS.

DeBot and Merrick discuss whether those who negotiated the deal might face criminal liability under 26 USC § 7217 or § 7212, and what steps Congress should take to investigate how the waiver came about and to stop it from taking effect.

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