The Systemic Way

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we welcome back Professor Peter Rober to discuss his book Becoming an Effective Family Therapist, focusing on the emotional life of the therapist. Peter explores how our feelings in the therapy room can offer valuable clues about family relationships, alliances and the dynamics unfolding between people. Through clinical examples, he considers how therapists can recognise when they are being drawn towards one family member, use their emotional responses to ...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Dr Mairi Evans, Systemic Therapist, Social Worker and Clinical Director in the NHS, to explore autism, neurodivergence and the stories that shape how people are understood within families, services and wider society. Drawing on her doctoral research with mothers of autistic girls, Mairi explores the “aha moments” that can emerge through the diagnostic journey, and what changes once a diagnosis is given. We discuss the history and social co...

What happens when we stop asking, “Who is right?” and start asking, “What are we making here?” In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Abbie VanMeter from the CMM Institute and host of the wonderful podcast Stories Lived and Stories Told for a wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation about Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM). The conversation explores Abbie's personal and professional journey into Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM), how she has come to embody...

What happens when the systems designed to help us start shaping, limiting or even defining the problems we are trying to solve? In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Mark Phillips, a highly experienced systemic psychotherapist, mental health nurse and strategic leader who has worked across NHS, local authority and youth justice services for more than two decades. Mark is currently Strategic Health Lead for Youth Justice Services and Head of Family Therapy at Coventry and Warwi...

Who are the people, past and present, who have helped you become who you are? In this episode of The Systemic Way, we explore Team of Life, a creative narrative practice developed from the Tree of Life approach. We speak with Mariangels Ferrer-Duch and Vicky Eames from Riverbank Psychology as we discuss how to help people reconnect with stories of strength, courage and belonging. This is a reflective conversation about narrative practice, relational identity and the power of remembering ...

Join us for a thought-provoking episode as we sit down with Kunsang Yang Yang , a pioneering voice in the integration of Buddhist philosophy and systemic family therapy. Drawing from years of personal spiritual practice, professional experience, and the teachings of his root guru, H.H. Yisie Vorle (as featured in the book Path Beyond Samsara), Yang Yang explores how Buddhist concepts like mindfulness, non-self, and wholesome aspirations can transform the way we understand and foster change wi...

What does it mean to truly see in therapy? Not just to recognise a problem or follow a model, but to sense the subtle movements of relationship — the flicker of meaning between people, the quiet shifts that change the course of a conversation. In this episode, Dr. Hugh Palmer, systemic family psychotherapist, trainer and writer, invites us into the art of expanded vision. Drawing on Gregory Bateson, William Blake, and decades of systemic practice, Hugh explores Fourfold Vision as a way of per...

In this episode, we shine a spotlight on the Pears Family School, a pioneering Alternative Provision school in the UK that is redefining how we support children with complex emotional, behavioral, and mental health needs. Facing a national crisis in child mental health and a lack of joined-up services, the Pears Family School bridges the gap between education and mental health through a unique, systemic, and family-focused approach. We are joined by Laura Lower and Maya Bell Kohli as we disco...

In this episode, we are joined by pioneering systemic psychotherapist, organisational consultant, and author Christine Oliver for a rich conversation exploring systemic approaches to organisational life, leadership, and change. Drawing from over 30 years of experience across the NHS, charities, international organisations, faith communities, and private consultancy, Christine reflects on how systemic and social constructionist ideas can help organisations navigate complexity, conflict, hierar...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we speak with Rick Murphy and Lisa Dvorjetz about their book A Systemic Approach to Integrative Counselling (2024) and the growing need to bring relational thinking into everyday therapeutic practice. Together, we explore how familiar counselling models such as person-centred, psychodynamic, CBT, Gestalt, and action-based approaches can be reworked through systemic ideas of context, relationships, patterns, and meaning. Rather than locating distress solely...

Celebrating our 100th episode of The Systemic Way Podcast. We took The Systemic Way to @EFTA-RELATES 2025 Congress in Lyon and stepped into a space shaped by change, tension, and possibility. Across four days, we spoke with therapists, researchers, and practitioners working at the edges of systemic practice. You hear their reflections, their challenges, and the moments that stayed with them. From conversations on migration, trauma, and social justice, to explorations of family therapy, orga...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we sit down with renowned psychotherapist, author, and educator Jan Winhall to explore the transformative power of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model (FSPM). With over four decades of clinical experience, Jan invites us into a radically compassionate, body‑based understanding of trauma, addiction, and healing. Together, we unpack how the body’s survival responses are not signs of pathology but intelligent adaptations—messages that deserve curiosity rather th...

In this episode, we’re turning our attention to the UK drama Adolescence — a series that begins with a single, shocking event but quickly reveals a much wider web of responsibility. Rather than focusing solely on the actions of one young person, the drama draws us into the interconnected systems surrounding him: family, school, peer culture, mental health services, and the criminal justice system. Using a systemic psychotherapy lens, we’ll explore how meaning, behaviour, and risk are produced...

In Grandmotherland, Dr Judith Edwards offers an exploration of Grandmotherhood as an intergenerational, relational, and socially constructed position. Drawing on myth, fairy tales, family narratives, and contemporary lived experience, she examines how dominant cultural discourses shape expectations of grandmothers and organise family roles, boundaries, and power across generations. Judith attends to patterns of transmission, alliance, exclusion, and care, situating Grandmotherhood within wide...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we talk about age in the room—listening for it not as decline, but as presence, memory, and becoming. Drawing inspiration from Maya Angelou’s On Aging, where she writes of being “old as the hills, and far from done,” we explore lifecycle transitions, working with older people, and how a therapist’s age is read, misread, and positioned in the therapeutic relationship. We reflect on age as a cultural and systemic story: how wisdom, power, invisibility, autho...

In this episode we speak with no other than Dr. Jaako Seikkula on this latest bookWhy Dialogue Does Cure: Explaining What Makes Dialogue Unprecedentedly Effective in Difficult Crises (2025). The book presents the core principles of Open Dialogue, a system of psychiatric care and dialogic psychotherapy that has spread to over 40 countries. Why Dialogue Does Cure explores the transformative power of Open Dialogue, a radically humanistic approach to mental health care developed in Western Laplan...

In this episode, we reflect on the deeply moving documentary White Nanny, Black Child (2023), which explores Britain’s “farming” system — a practice through which over 70,000 West African children were fostered by white British families between 1955 and 1995. Through the voices of nine adults who reunite to share their experiences, the film opens up tender and painful reflections on identity, belonging, and survival. We listen to the echoes of care and silence that continue to shape lives lo...

In this very special episode we sit down with members of the DWP - Race Group (Shakira Nkanang, Calvin Malcom and John Burnham) as we turn our systemic lens on the iconic album by Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman 1988). We ask, how does Tracy Chapman's album provide a soundtrack for confronting race, power, and privilege in therapeutic practice? What do the anthems of our lives reveal about the systems we live in? We unpack how "Talkin' 'bout a Revolution" isn't just a protest song, b...

In systemic psychotherapy we often focus on the words we use, but what about the sound of them? In this episode, we meet with systemic psychotherapist and social worker Jordan Makmihe to explore the subtle yet significant role of accent in therapeutic practice. Our conversation considers how the nuances of our speech—the melody, the rhythm, the inflection—carry unspoken stories about identity, belonging, and power. We discuss how these vocal cues quietly influence the relationship between th...

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with therapist, trainer, supervisor and author Desa Markovic to explore her compelling paper on the Aspects of Reading (2021) - a model that invites practitioners, students, and educators into a deeper, more layered relationship with texts. Desa guides us through a nuanced framework that separates and then interweaves four key reading positions: The Author’s View, The Reader’s Personal Response, Critique, and Self-Reflexivity. Together, we u...

In this inspiring and thought-provoking episode, we sit down with peace activist, former Jain monk, and ecological visionary Satish Kumar to explore the profound power of Radical Love—the focus of his latest book. Together, we dive into how love can be understood not just as a personal feeling, but as a systemic force capable of transforming families, communities, and entire societies. Satish shares his reflections on how love can shape education, economics, politics, healthcare, and environm...

What if our biggest crises – from climate collapse to mental health – demand not simpler solutions, but a deeper embrace of complexity? Join us for a profound conversation with Nora Bateson, award-winning filmmaker, writer, and systems thinker. Nora takes us inside the rich ecology of ideas explored in her groundbreaking book, Combining. Nora challenges us to see the world as a web of inseparable relationships, where every action ripples with incalculable consequences. She argues compell...

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe. Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal journeys into systemic therapy, the organization’s current goals, and the evolving landscape of fam...

In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice. Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a lens of social justice, inclusivity, and innovation. This is a conversation about change, c...

Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing. We’ll unpack: - The origins of her work—What drew her to the Mental Research Institute (MRI) and constructivist ideas? Who were h...

Join us in this insightful episode as we sit down with Dr. John Launer, a retired GP, family therapist, and pioneer in integrating systemic and narrative approaches into healthcare. Dr. Launer shares his journey from general practice to becoming a leading figure in training healthcare professionals to use therapeutic conversations in their everyday work. Discover the transformative power of Conversations Inviting Change (CIC), a method Dr. Launer co-developed to help clinicians balance the no...

Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics. In this insightful podcast episode, John Burnham, reflects on his decades-long career, sharing personal and professional experien...

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Putman, founder of Open Dialogue UK and a leading force in adapting the Open Dialogue approach to the UK. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist and certified Open Dialogue practitioner and trainer, Nick shares his journey of learning directly from pioneers like Jaakko Seikkula and Jorma Ahonen, and how he has worked to bring this revolutionary approach to the NHS and beyond. We explore Nick’s visits to Western Lapland to study Open Dialogue in practice,...

In this episode, we’re joined by attendees from the Hayaa’ Network’s groundbreaking conference on neurodiversity, held in Singapore in February 2024. Together, we reflect on the latest advancements in practice, research, and theory in this rapidly evolving area of mental health, all through a systemic lens. Featuring insights from keynote speakers Dr. Marwa Azab, Ms. Nora Bateson, Ms. Maimunah Mosli, and Dr. Mairi Evans, this conversation dives into the intersections of neurodiversity and sys...

Join us for a compelling exploration of, The Divided Island, a groundbreaking documentary film that delves into the complex history, identity, and shared humanity of Cyprus. In this episode, we sit down with the film’s creators - director Cey Sesiguzel (Turkish Cypriot) and co-producer Andreas Tokkallos (Greek Cypriot) - as they reflect on their journey of collaboration and friendship, the stories that shaped their film, and the ways art can bridge even the deepest divides. We are also...

In this episode, we sit down with David Denborough, a leading figure in narrative therapy and community work, to explore the fascinating journey that brought him to this transformative approach. David shares the early influences that connected his values and beliefs with narrative ideas, offering insight into the foundational stories that shaped his practice. We dive into his relationship with the Dulwich Centre, the renowned hub of narrative therapy, uncovering how he became part of this vi...

In this episode with speak with Dr Dwight Turner who shares his thoughts, ideas and reflections on his two books Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird (2021) and The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium (2023). Dwight shares his personal stories around his early life, career and training as a psychotherapist weaving through themes of race, power, intersectionality and privilege. He talks about the creation of otherness and ways to deepen our und...

In this episode we are joined by the Association for Family Therapy (AFT)'s Diversity Working Party (DWP) - Race Group. The group share their experiences of meeting and working together and their ongoing commitment to bring race to the forefront of our practice. The members talk about the complexity of grappling with this. Alongside this, they share the energy, passion and playfulness with which they endeavour to create safety to explore race in a meaningful way that can support change...

In this episode we talk with Khara Croswaite Brindle about her book Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships. We hear about how therapists can prepare to address ruptured mother daughter relationships in a therapeutic space. Whether it is repairing the estrangement or preparing for it, Khara takes us through the cycle of estrangement and offers tools to manage the different stages. We focus on areas such as identifying the cycle, challenges of each stage and how to attend to thes...

In this episode we are joined by Ozlem Kose PhD to discuss an article she co-wrote with Fatma Arıcı-Şahin & Ahmet Abakay, A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329 (Kose et al 2019). Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and fam...

Dr Jamila Holcomb is a marriage and family therapist and supervisior in Florida joins us to discuss racial trauma. Given the current climate and the ongoing wrestle with racism and its impact on communities and individuals this episode offers essential tools for anti racist practice. Jamila takes us through the important area of racial trauma in clinical settings. We hear her talk about defining racial trauma, barriers to addressing it, clinical best practices for therapists and supervisors ...

In this episode we speak with Marianne Le Coyte Grinney about mental health and tech. Marianne is the founder of Held Mind an organisation that offers training, support and consultation on mental health, sobriety and recovery on platforms such as web 3 and discord. She takes us through her personal and professional journey with the world of tech and the need to understand this world and why mental health matters in these communities. We hear about the culture of these platforms, inclusivity a...

In this episode of The Systemic Lens, we delve into the enchanting world of Disney's "Encanto" through the lens of systemic psychotherapy. Join us as we explore the complex dynamics of the Madrigal family, analysing how intergenerational trauma, familial roles, and cultural expectations shape their magical and emotional experiences. We examine the dual nature of the family's gifts as both blessings and burdens, the impact of secrecy and communication breakdowns, and the journey of heal...

Nsimire Aimee Bisimwa is a Highly Specialist Systemic & Family Psychotherapist, course lead & lecturer at Essex University & Tavistock Centre and visiting lecturer at University College London. Our home is the theme for Refugee Week in 2024. In this special episode, we are dedicating our discussion to exploring and highlighting the crucial work being done to support refugees and young asylum seekers. We have the privilege of speaking with Nsimire, a leading professiona...

David Pocock , Systemic Family Psychotherapist, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, author and lecturer, joins us to discuss his influential paper, "A Philosophy of Practice for Systemic Psychotherapy: The Case for Critical Realism." (2015) In this session, we revisit the paper almost ten years after its initial publication to examine its enduring themes and its significant contribution to the field of family therapy. David explains what critical realism is and how it manifests in therapeutic pra...

In this episode we are joined by EFTA President, Umberta Telfener, as she shares with us her legacy and connection to the development of the systemic field. She talks about her relationships with some of the pioneers in Systemic Family Therapy across the globe. We hear her passionate views on combining systemic interventions and psychotherapy as we explore the integral relationship between them. Umberta also discusses first and second order change, systemic complexity, collusion and utilisi...

In today's episode we have the privilege to speak with Dr. Yoa'd Ghanadry-Hakim who is a clinical psychologist, human rights activist and supervisor and has been active in the field of mental health in Palestine for 25 years. Dr Yoa’d joins us to talk about her experiences of working in Palestine and generously shares her professional journey and the many factors that have contributed to her development through the context of living in an occupied land. Yoa'd invites us to recon...

Amanda Middleton joins us to talk in depth about her keynote speech/article, Adventures in time, gender and therapeutic practice. Embracing a queer systemic way of working with gender expansive families. Amanda shares with us ways to understand gender and sexuality that are away from binary discourses and we discuss why this matters for inclusive therapeutic practice. She takes us on an adventure about her work, projects and passions on utilising a queer systemic approach that is steep...

This episode focuses on social constructionism with one of the leading figures in the field, Kenneth J. Gergen Ph.D. We hear about how radical the ideas were at the time of its conceptiopn and the people who believed in its contribution to psychology and supported its evolution. Ken tells us his personal and professional stories of the history and development of his key ideas within social constructionism alongside some of the challenges when sharing with the wider field. Ken discusse...

In this episode we discuss the Queensland Institute of Family Therapy's (QIFT) meta framework for integrative practice. Founders, Kate and Leonie talk about how practitioners are embracing and integrative approach and their experience of developing the framework. Topics covered include: The main elements of the framework How integrative differs from traditional approaches in family therapy What it contributes to the wider systemic field Throughout the conversation we hea...

This episode is about Shadi Shahnavaz’s insightful book “Working systematically with refugee families and couples: exploring trauma, resilience and culture” We discuss areas such as: -Effects of trauma -Seeking therapeutic help -Cross cultural therapy -Refugees lived experiences -Frameworks for engaging & supporting families and couples Shadi guides us through her personal and professional journey of working in this area and enlightens her process with case studies and resonances to devel...

In this episode we speak with the much respect Dr Harry Aponte about his career, contributions and process of becoming and being a therapist. He shares with us stories oh how he became interested in systemic practice and his early days in structural systemic family therapy. We take a deep dive with Harry as he discussed the key ideas that informs his approach, the important people who have helped shape his practice and the values that he holds in his therapeutic work. This episod...

Editor of The Journal of Family Therapy (JFT), Sarah Helps joins us to discuss the history, contribution & value of JFT. Sarah shares her passion for research and its important role in the systemic field. She shows how research can support practice through developing knowledge and deepen our understanding of process. She talks us through how to get involved with the journal and debunks fear of creating meaningful research. The Journal of Family Therapy advances the understanding a...

In this episode we meet Francesca Balestra and Laura Fruggeri, two of the authors of the book Psychotherapeutic competencies: Techniques, relationships, and epistemology in systemic practice (2002). We have the opportunity to hear about the importance and value of competencies through the exploration of technical, relational, epsitimolgical and social aspects of competencies. The episode covers: - the Methodological principles of competencies -the 4 levels of systemic competenc...

Batja Mesquita, social psychologist, affective scientist, and pioneer of cultural psychology joins us to talk about her wonderful book Between Us: How Cultures Create Emotions (2022). In this episodes, we dive deep into the key ideas within the book and discuss the interplay with systemic ideas. Batja invites us to reconsider emotions as universal responses and takes an outside/in perspective on how emotions are created through culture. We discuss how this can be vital to understanding...

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Ruth Van Reken who is the co-authour of Third Culture Kids: Growing Up Among Worlds, 3rd ed., and author of Letters Never Sent. We explore Third Culture Kids (TCKs)—which refers to people raised in cultures different from their parents’ and who spent formative years in diverse environments. We delve into the psychological, social, and relational impacts, addressing identity, belonging, challenges, and the incredible advantages of a cross-cultura...

In this episode we talk with Hendrix Hammond about identity, the use of self, positioning and emotions in the therapeutic and organisational contexts. We expand on his AFT 2022 keynote speech where Hendrix shares his own journey and how this has informed him and is present in his values and ways of working in practice. Hendrix Hammond bio: Hendrix is a Consultant Couple & Family Psychotherapist and Lead Family Therapist for a London Local Authority. He is a qualified AFT (Associat...

In this episode we talk with Flavio Cannistra, Jeff Young and Katy Stephenson all about Single Session Therapy (SST). They share their professional experience and lived examples of the approach in action. We are introduced to the philosophy, key principles, benefits, challenges and ethics of SST and get an insight to how it can transform practice, systems and how services are delivered. Guests: Jeff Young (PhD) is Emeritus Professor, La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia. ...

In this episode we meet with Robert van Hennik to discuss his professional doctorate titled: Practice Based Evidence Based Practice: Navigating Complexity in Feedback-informed Systemic Therapy. Robert brings his ideas alive by talking us through his approach in a practical way. He eloquently shares how the theory is woven into practice through collaborative work with the systems, families, institutions, networks. Robert guides us through case examples and his own journey with this fanta...

In this episode we speak with Dr. Viola Sallay and Dr. Tamás Martos about EMOTH a therapeutic tool they have created to support therapist in nurturing new ways of having conversations with families. They share the development, application and case examples allowing us to fully experience the possibilities of EMOTH. This expansive tool finds creative ways to bring home into the therapeutic space asking a new layer of possibilities with therapeutic work. What is EMOTH? The map of family ...

This episode is a reflective conversation bout the recent AFT symposium "Building Bridges" which took place in Birmingham in July 2023. We are joined by Jennifer Achan, Anokh Goodman, Sybil Qasir and Judy Sutton who share their experiences of the day from their personal and professional positions. If you were unable to make it in person then we hope this gives you a flavour of the day and if you were there a reminder of the event.

In this episode Parveen Kaur & Amy Urry join us to discuss an initiative by AFT to openly and collaboratively work with members on issues of diversity. They share the intentions of creating the DWPs, provide insights on what they are about and details on how to join. Parveen Kaur works as a Family & Systemic Psychotherapist in Community CAMHS for Midlands Partnership NHS Foundation Trust. She practices as a clinical Supervisor on the MSc training programme at Birmingham and in...

In this episode we talk with Dr Travis Heath and discuss the book “Reimagining Narrative Therapy Through Practice Stories and Autoethnography by Travis Heath, Tom Carlson and David Epston. The heart of the book is a re embracing of the spirits of narrative practice through the teaching and learning of this approach. Travis invites us to explore the essence of the model through autoethnography, practice & teaching stories It’s a deep dive into the core of its inventive origins from dedica...

Peter Rober returns onto the podcast to talk in detail about his JFT award winning paper ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy, where he and his co-authours talk about the integral role of collaboration and therapeutic alliance in achieving positive outcomes in therapy. In this episode Peter talks to us about the feedback instruments, the origins of using feedback in his practice, the development of the tools. He...

In this episode we meet with Graham Music, Consultant Child Psychotherapist and former Associate Clinical Director at the Tavistock Clinic in London. We discuss his career, his books as we dive into his ideas on the interplay between systemic thinking, attachment theory, developmental psychology and the new frontiers of neuroscience. We discussed this paper as a focus for the conversation: Music, G. (2019). Babies and bathwaters: attachment, neuroscience, evolution and the left. Soundings,...

Welcome to The Systemic Lens - our podcast where we geek out on systemic ideas and apply them to films, music, literature and pop culture. In this episode we take on the magnificent film, Everything Everywhere All At Once. Enjoy!

In this episode we speak with the ever inspiring Vikki Reynolds Phd who talks with us about her ongoing work and process of social justice, direct action and activism. Vikki shares personal and professional insights on her commitment to justice doing, decolonisation and living and working in an ethical way. We hear her dedication to addressing inequality, power structures and discrimination through aligning her values with everyday actions and the importance of sustaining oneself ...

In this episode we speak with systemic and narrative psychotherapist, Sabine Vermeire who discusses in detail her approach to working with children, young people and their families and carers using an attachment narrative approach to nurture belonging and open up therapeutic possibilities. We discuss Sabine's wonderful paper "No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a sense of belonging" (2021) and take a deeper look at her process, hearing about her approach, the...

In this episode we focus on the special issue in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (JMFT) which reviews the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family therapy from the last decade. We speak with editors of the review Dr Andrea Wittenborn and Dr Kendal Holtrop who share their process and insights into collaborating on the reviews creation, the value of research in family therapy and using research to connect to real life practice. Wittenborn, A. K., & Holtrop, K. (20...

In this episode we speak with Kam Kaur (senior social worker/systemic practitioner) and Claire Field (social care consultant and managing director) as they share with us details of The Parenting Apart Programme. We hear about their personal and professional connections in developing the programme and in working with separated parents in conflict. They share their wisdom and experience of how to support parents during these challenging and difficult processes as we get an insightful wa...

In this episode we talk to systemic psychotherapist, consultant and filmmaker Charlotte Burck about her inspiration and process of making this personal film about the development of systemic family psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic, UK. Charlotte shares professional and personal stories about this unique time and the joys and challenges of bringing this story to film. The film Working from the Margins. The development of systemic psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic can be v...

In this episode Professor Vernon Cronen shares his journey in developing CMM. Professor Cronen talks about his relationship with Barnet Pearce, introducing the ideas in the UK and the current developments of CMM theory and practice. Vernon weaves his experiences with stories from his life giving us a colourful and intricate walk through his relationship with CMM. Prof. Vernon Cronen has been a member of the faculty of the University of Massachusetts, Department of Communication since 1...

In this episode we meet with Consultant systemic psychotherapist Carol Halliwell as she shares her personal and professional connections with the Just Therapy team at the Family Centre in New Zealand. We explore the Just Therapy approach and hear how the guiding principles that underpin their work has influenced and guided Carol's practice for over 20 years.

In this episode we meet with the one and only Monica McGoldrick as she takes us through her career and journey in using family genograms in her clinical work. We hear how Monica has developed her ideas throughout the years and the use of symbols, patterns and the importance of exploring life cycles. This is a unique opportunity of hearing a master therapist share her insights into the application of this integral tool in systemic family therapy. Monica McGoldrick, MSW, PhD (h.c.),&nbs...

In this episode we discuss the mother and daughter relationship with Rosjke Hasseldine. Rosjke has spent almost 30 years working therapeutically with mothers and daughters and researching the factors that contribute to the complexity of this relationship. Rosjke has trained over1000 therapists and coaches from 20 different countries in her Mother-Daughter Attachment training. In this conversation, Rosjke some of her experiences, therapeutic interventions and the model she...

In this episode we talk with systemic psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer Karen Partridge about the role of creativity and improvisation in systemic supervision. Karen takes us on a journey of metaphors through "swampy lowlands", "constructive awkwardness", "positioning compass" and her "rememberall". Karen shares her ideas of connecting to our creative selves and how to embrace it within the supervision process.

Welcome back after a short summer break. In this episode we reflect on the wonderful AFT 2022 Conference entitled: Transgenerational stories of hope across cultures; old wisdoms and new truths which was host by the West Yorkshire AFT at the Queens Hotel in Leeds. We share our reflections, highlights and the experience of the conference and also speak to attendees, presenters and organisers about their favourite moments and what the conference meant to them. Massive thank you for everyone w...

In this episode we meet with the filmmakers of the documentary film "KCC Stories Lived and Stories Told" which was premiered at the AFT conference 2021. We meet with the creators, Rick Murphy, Helen Mahaffey, Ayesha Aslam, Mark Chidgey and Karen Partridge as they share their reflections on key moments from the film, their thoughts on making the film and their memories of the KCC and what it means to them. We invite you to all watch the film (if you haven't already) and sha...

Dr Imelda McCarthy PhD. joins us to share the story, development and practice of the Fifth Province. Imelda talk with us about how the Fifth Province evolved within the context of Ireland, the wider systemic community and the connections it has with spirituality. She gives us examples of using the myth in practice and how the model invites space into the therapy room. We also hear about thematic diamonds and to work with oppositional positions. Dr Imelda McCarthy, PhD. is a syst...

Introducing our new podcast adventure - The Systemic Lens. We are a group of systemic therapist with a love for film, TV, music, literature and theatre and will be using systemic theory to share our reflections, thoughts and resonances on some our our favourites. Through these podcast we hope to expand the bounds of systemic application and offer alternative forms of analysis to film, TV, Music, literature etc. We also hope to provide new ways for people to connect with systemic ideas....

In this episode we talk with Dr Ged Smith about his ideas on taking a 1.5 order position in therapy. Ged introduces us to the meaning of the 1.5 order position and shows us ways to operate within and between first and second order positions from his own experience. In this podcast we discuss the therapeutic conundrums and tensions between the therapists position as expert and collaborator; having certainty and exploring and knowing and not-knowing.

Nick Pendry is a social worker and family therapist. He is currently employed as the deputy director of children's services at the London Borough of Wandsworth. He identifies as a Brown-Indian man. Nick has worked in various roles in the NHS and local authority children’s services. He is particularly interested in embedding systemic ideas and practices into children’s social care and in the construction of race and racism. In this conversation Nick Pendry shares his thoughts and reflections ...

In this episode we hear about Inga-Britt Krause's professional life with a focus on race and equity - the importance of teaching it and the nuances that need to be held in mind. The conversation is framed around her paper "Can we teach race and equity? (2022)" and we hope it invites a lens of curiosity and reflection on where we are at with race and equity as a systemic community. Inga-Britt Krause is Training and Development Consultant with special reference to race and equity at the Tavisto...

Dr Victor Yalom, founder of Psychotherapy.net joins the Systemic Way in a conversation about developing your best therapeutic self. We hear about his experiences of becoming a therapist, creating Psychotherapy.net and also tips on developing a more dynamic, authentic self so that you can better connect with and support your clients along their therapeutic journey. Being self-aware, comfortable sitting with difficult emotions, and truly present for our clients are essential skills that canno...

In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Gwyn Daniel about her connection to politics and systemic thinking and how she navigates the two in the systemic community. Gwyn talks about gender, power, class and geography in this rich and insightful episode. Gwyn Daniel is a Systemic Family Therapist, Trainer, Clinical Supervisor and co-founder of the Oxford Family Institute. She has authored or co-authored many professional books and articles and we welcome Gwyn back to talk to us abo...

In this episode we explore the personal and professional journey of Hesther Selbeck, a Dutch Systemic Psychotherapist and developer of Contextual Equine Therapy. Hesther takes us on a ride through the development, theory and practice that underpins her model. Contextual Equine Therapy is a form of systemic therapy in which horses are used as co-therapists. The interaction with the horses provides a (deep) experiential form of therapy in which clients come into contact with their emotio...

In this episode we are honoured to speak with Ncazelo Ncube-Mlilo, where we discuss her work with a focus on the COURRAGE approach that she has developed with women who have experienced trauma. COURRAGE is a collective narrative way of working that privileges the alternative stories of women who have faced significant hardships. It honours the strengths, skills and courage women show and use in the face of sorrow and grief. Ncazelo talks us through the different stages of the model and...

In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Chiara Santin who is a Systemic and Family Psychotherapist, supervisor, trainer and Director of Rainbow Family Therapy Services and Rainbow Community Projects CIC. Chiara has worked with children and families for more than 30 years, in Italy as a community-based youth worker and in UK as a professional. She is passionate about promoting affordable family therapy, activity-based therapy and EcoTherapy. EcoTherapy is a...

In this episode we hear about the ground-breaking Handbook of Systemic Family Therapy (Wampler, 2020) from three contributing editors. We discuss it's creation, the process of its development and get a deeper dive into some of the chapters. This handbook is a magnificent resource for family therapist as its sets to redefine the profession and practice of systemic therapy and it was a real pleasure and privilege to speak with Reenee, Mudita and Adrian about their role in creating t...

In this episode we meet with the founder of Superhero Therapy, the amazing Dr Janina Scarlet! We talk about her work, career and the development of Superhero Therapy. As ever, we explore how this approach can be used within systemic therapy and think about ways in which we can incorporate the use of Superheroes in our work with families. Dr. Janina Scarlet, based in San Diego, CA, is a Clinical Psychologist, award-winning author, podcaster and a full-time geek! Dr Scarlet is a ...

In this episode we meet Dr Travis Heath, PhD, to speak about decolonising psychotherapy. He generously shares his current thinking, reading and practice around the topic. Travis Heath is Narrative Therapist, Clinical Psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychology at Metropolitan State University of Denver, Colorado. His work has focused on shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are cultural...

In this episode we speak with Joe Cottrell-Boyce, film writer, systemic family therapist and social worker about the ITV drama "Stephen" which he co-wrote (2021). We explore themes of family trauma, the impact of racism, institutional racism and the search for justice and peace. We also discuss his 2021 paper "Addressing White privilege in family therapy: A discourse analysis" which was published in the Journal of Family Therapy. Watch the TV show here: https://www.itv.com/hub/s...

In this episode we meet with Josue Cardona who is the founder and president of Geek Therapy based in the USA. Geek Therapy is a affinity based model of therapeutic intervention that shows you different ways to communicate and understand people through their passions and interest. Learn more about Geek Therapy @ www.geektherapy.org

In this episode we review the past year, looking at how the podcast started, our hopes in creating the content, review of the episodes and a look forward to what is coming up in 2022! Thank you to all the listeners and special guests that have joined us in our first year in making the podcast! Special thank you to Tasmin Arai Drake and Rena Paid for providing the art work and music for our podcast!

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Helen Bonnick, author of the book 'Child to Parent Violence and Abuse: A Practitioner’s Guide to Working with Families'. We discuss the origins of the book, core ideas, implications for practice and the systemic ideas which have both influenced and developed her work.

In this episode we speak with Professor Dr Carlene Firmin MBE and Lisa Bostock on the development, key ideas, research and implementation of Contextual Safeguarding. We explore how the framework of Contextual Safeguarding crosses over and interacts with systemic concepts and gain insights into how we can begin to use this framework in our practice. For more information on Contextual Safeguarding visit their website at https://contextualsafeguarding.org.uk

In todays episode we speak with systemic psychotherapy consultants, Percy Aggett and Philip Messent who share their thoughts on rethinking leadership and management through a collaborative approach drawing on systemic principles and ideas. Percy Aggett is a social work trained systemic psychotherapist. He was previously the Associate Clinical Director and Head of Psychological Therapies in Tower Hamlets CAMHS, East London, UK. “I am concerned to create safe, imaginative organisations. I am i...

VIVA talk! In today's episode Professor Hannah Sherbersky takes us through a piece of her work in the style of a VIVA. This episode gives the listener an insight into Hannah's practice and helpful ideas about answering questions and talking about ones work in general. Professor Hannah Sherbersky is an Associate Professor, Systemic Psychotherapist, Deputy Director of Post-Graduate Taught Programmes and Co-Director of Systemic Portfolio at CEDAR, College of Life and Environmental Science...

NVR: In this episode we speak with Dr Peter Jakob and Joanne Buchmuller on the development, theory and practice of NVR. They share their own experiences and reflections in this insightful and informative conversation. Please do also check out their work at https://www.partnershipprojectsuk.com/ and their numerous publications on NVR.

In this episode we speak with Shona Grant about her relationship to embodiment in her practice - how she discovered it, its' meaning and the ways it has developed her as a systemic therapist and social worker.

In this episode we met with author, dramatherapist and systemic practitioner Talya Bruck who talks to us about her therapeutic story writing and series of published books. The Savanna Therapeutic Stories series was established at the beginning of Covid 19 2020 and are a valuable resource to help families, educators and therapists support young people through the use of metaphor. They are available at https://tlrosenbaum1.wixsite.com/website and also on all good b...

In today's episode Julie and Sezer meet with the Co-editors of Pandemic as Systemic Flux which is a writing project within Murmurations: Journal of Transformative Systemic Practice . The writing project has established and reflects a preoccupation with a need for the systemic practice community to feel ownership of our journals, to feel connected to the texts they read, and feel entitled to take up space with their writings. We hear how the writing project came about and some of the st...

Systemic Work in Singapore: A Conversation with systemic psychotherapists Maimunah Mosli and Fajar Saban on how they have introduced systemic practice to the multi-cultural landscape of Singapore. In this episode we discuss cross-cultural practice, the role of spirituality and systemic community work. We also hear the inspiring journey and development of the SYM academy in Singapore.

A conversation with Prof. Dr. Peter Rober who is a clinical psychologist, family therapist and family therapy trainer. Peter practices and teaches in Belgium and has several articles in international journals of family therapy. In this episode we hear how Peter became a family therapist and his use of inner conversations and dual process thinking through case examples. Alongside this Peter talks about how different systemic theories support and develop his current practice.