The Nature Of with Willow Defebaugh

How can we find our way back to wonder? In this special episode, Willow takes listeners inside Enchanted Forest, a magical evening with Atmos at the New York Public Library during Climate Week. Featuring Robin Wall Kimmerer, Maria Popova, Giuliana Furci, and Indigenous Amazonian leader Juma Xipaia, the episode explores what forests can teach us about interdependence, belonging, and love. From the hidden wisdom of fungi to the power of reciprocity, these conversations offer a reminder that enchantment isn't about escaping reality, but seeing it more clearly.

For more about Maria Popova and The Marginalian: https://www.themarginalian.org

For more about Giuliana Furci: https://giulianafurci.com/

For more about Robin Wall Kimmerer: https://robinwallkimmerer.com/

To watch Yanuni: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhDdAONYZeQ
 

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What does it mean to rewild ourselves? This week, Willow speaks with legendary conservationist and former Patagonia CEO Kristine Tompkins about her decades of work rewilding and protecting nature—including over 16 million acres of land and over 30 million acres of ocean. In their conversation, they delve into rewilding as a way to stay connected to the living world, even in the face of grief and loss. At the heart of this episode is a simple idea: when we remember that we are part of nature, we discover a deeper sense of purpose and possibility.

For more about Kris Tompkins and the Tompkins Conservation: https://www.tompkinsconservation.org/

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What if conflict is not something to be avoided, but something that can help us grow? This week, Willow sits down with author and conflict resolution expert Priya Parker to explore what she calls “healthy heat” and how tension can help relationships and communities thrive. Drawing on her new book, The Art of Fighting, Priya reflects on why some fights are worth having, how to tell when to engage with conflict, and what nature can teach us about the generative power of tension.

For more about Priya Parker: https://www.priyaparker.com/

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What if plants are more intelligent than we've ever imagined? This week, Willow sits down with journalist and The Light Eaters author Zoë Schlanger for a conversation about the hidden lives of plants and what they reveal about intelligence, consciousness, and our place in the natural world. By the end of this conversation, you may never look at a tree or a houseplant the same way again.

For more about Zoë Schlanger: https://www.zoeschlanger.com

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What if the universe is stranger and more full of possibility than we've been taught to imagine? This week, Willow sits down with cosmologist and The Edge of Space-Time author Chanda Prescod-Weinstein for a conversation about the cosmos, curiosity, and the power of expanding our perspective. They explore the physics of dark matter and other mysteries, what the universe can teach us about possibility, and why it’s always a good idea to have a beginner’s mind.

For more about Chanda Prescod-Weinstein: https://chanda.science/

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Lindsay Mack spends their time helping people rewild and reconnect with their intuition—but not in the way you might expect. This week, Willow sits down with the teacher, author, and host of Tarot for the Wild Soul for a conversation about spirituality rooted in nature, healing that moves in spirals rather than straight lines, and finding meaning in uncertainty. Together, they explore how the living world can become a mirror, a guide, and a reminder that we already carry much of the wisdom we’re searching for.

For more about Lindsay Mack: https://www.lindsaymack.com/

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Hope isn’t found in looking to the future; it’s in the past. This week, Willow sits down with legendary writer and activist Rebecca Solnit for a conversation about uncertainty, change, and the stories we choose to believe about what’s to come. Together, they explore why hope is not naïve optimism when rooted in evidence, and how history reminds us that change often arrives in unexpected ways. Drawing from Rebecca’s new book, The Beginning Comes After the End, this conversation examines the progress made in the last 70 years as cause for hope—and proof that the impossible happens all the time.

For more about Rebecca Solnit: https://www.rebeccasolnit.net/

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What can seeds teach us about memory, resilience, and the possibility of renewal? This week, Willow sits down with Vivien Sansour, seed keeper and founder of the Palestine Heirloom Seed Library. They explore how seeds carry stories across generations and why protecting threatened varieties is a way of preserving the knowledge and traditions they hold, particularly during times of loss. From childhoods spent foraging in the hills to the role food and seeds play in connecting people to place, Vivien reflects on what it means to remember our connection to land, to each other, and to the stories that continue to shape us.

For more about Vivien Sansour: https://viviensansour.com/

For more about the Palestine Heirloom Seed Library: https://www.palestineheirloomseedlibrary.com/

For more about the Traveling Kitchen: https://viviensansour.com/Traveling-Kitchen

Palestine’s Seeds in Diaspora: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/palestines-seeds-in-diaspora/

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What does it mean for beauty to be part of ecology rather than separate from it? Willow sits down with Jorge Blanco, Davines' North America Culture & Creative Director, for a conversation about regenerative agriculture, green chemistry, and the hidden systems behind the products we use every day. They explore how soil, science, farming, and haircare are deeply interconnected and what it means to move beyond sustainability toward regeneration. This conversation invites us to rethink what it means to care for ourselves and the Earth at the same time.

This episode was made possible by Davines. If you’re interested in learning more about Davines, check out Davines: For A Good Life.

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How do we stay open amid uncertainty? In this episode, Willow sits down with Maria Popova, writer and founder of The Marginalian, for a conversation about meaning, wonder, and the unknown. They explore Maria’s idea that “selfing” sits at the root of much of our suffering and how wonder can be an antidote. Moving between the scientific and poetic, the historical and the personal, they trace surprising connections across time in Maria’s new book, Traversal. This conversation is an invitation to loosen our grip on certainty and let ourselves be astonished by the marvels of existence.

For more about Maria Popova and The Marginalian: https://www.themarginalian.org

For Reweaving the Rainbow: https://substack.com/@reweavingtherainbow

Reweaving the Rainbow: Science, Poetry, and the Magic of Nature: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/reweaving-the-rainbow/

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How can we see nature as an invitation to break down binary thinking? In this episode, Willow sits down with environmental drag queen Pattie Gonia to explore the outdoors as a space that bridges divides. From hiking in heels to building community through art, Pattie shares how drag became a pathway back to both nature and self. Diving into the deep connection between identity, self expression, and the natural world, this conversation is an invitation to reconnect with what is most alive within us—and to remember that healing ourselves might be part of how we heal the world.

For more about Pattie Gonia: https://www.pattiegonia.net/

60 Seconds on Earth with Pattie Gonia: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/60-seconds-on-earth-with-pattie-gonia/

Pattie Gonia on Drag and Identity in the Outdoors: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/pattie-gonia-environmentalist-drag-queen-interview/

Why Pattie Gonia, Yo-Yo Ma, and Quinn Christopherson Won’t Give Up: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/why-pattie-gonia-yo-yo-ma-and-quinn-christopherson-wont-give-up/

Watch Bonnie Wright and Pattie Gonia Road Trip for the Planet: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/watch-bonnie-wright-and-pattie-gonia-road-trip-for-the-planet/

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How can getting in touch with our senses help us reconnect with the world around us? Nature has shaped the work of artist Olafur Eliasson for decades. From glowing suns indoors to melting glaciers in city streets, his installations invite us to see what we’ve been blind to. In this episode, Willow and Olafur explore how art can reach beyond language, allowing us to feel what is often too vast or abstract to grasp. They consider the ways art can help us see the world in new dimensions—and feel seen in return.

For more about Olafur Eliasson: https://olafureliasson.net/

For more about the Weather Project: https://olafureliasson.net/artwork/the-weather-project-2003/

For more about The New York City Waterfalls: https://olafureliasson.net/artwork/the-new-york-city-waterfalls-2008/

For more about Ice Watch: https://olafureliasson.net/artwork/ice-watch-2014/

Decarbonizing the Art World: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/decarbonizing-the-art-world-olafur-eliasson-onassis-stegi/

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Beneath our feet, fungi connect forests, turn death into life, and quietly sustain the world we live in. Mycologist Giuliana Furci has spent decades studying and sensing into them. In this conversation, she invites us to see life differently, not as separate individuals, but as a web of relationships that holds everything together. Together with Willow, she reflects on how learning to notice fungi can open our eyes to the hidden collaborations that make life on Earth possible.

 For more about Giuliana Furci: https://giulianafurci.com/

For more about the Fungi Foundation: https://www.ffungi.org/

Saving the World's Fungi, Might Save Us, Too: https://atmos.earth/science-and-nature/saving-the-worlds-fungi-might-save-us-too/

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Note: This episode includes a brief mention of death by suicide. Please take care while listening.

Willow sits down with award-winning author Terry Tempest Williams to explore the spiritual dimensions of attention, climate change, and our relationship with the living world. Together, Willow and Terry look at what it means to live with our eyes open in a time of unraveling and revealing. From a desert ant carrying a single blossom across the sand to the story of a beloved oak tree lost at the Harvard Divinity School, they reflect on mysticism, grace, and the quiet practice of noticing. If attention is a form of prayer, then perhaps the work of our time is learning how to see. This conversation is an invitation to meet the holy ordinary as it finds us: what Terry calls The Glorians.

For more about Terry Tempest Williams: http://www.terrytempestwilliams.com/

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What if the forest is not scenery, but kin? In this episode of The Nature Of, Willow speaks with forest ecologist, Suzanne Simard, about the hidden networks that connect trees beneath our feet and what those relationships reveal about our own. Drawing from decades of research and her new book When the Forest Breathes, Suzanne reflects on mother trees, shared breath, and the responsibility of caring for forests in a time when they desperately need us—and we need them.

On the Mother Tree Project: https://mothertreeproject.org/

On Family Trees: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/suzanne-simard-finding-mother-tree-book-interview/

On Loving Nature: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/ecology-love-relationships/

On When The Forest Breathes: https://suzannesimard.com/when-the-forest-breathes/

For more on Suzanne Simard: https://suzannesimard.com/

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What if remembering we will die is what teaches us how to live? In this episode of The Nature Of, Willow is joined by death doula and New York Times bestselling author, Alua Arthur, to explore how reflecting on our mortality can reshape the way we live. Together, they consider what shifts when we stop looking away, and how that awareness can deepen love and bring our choices into focus. This conversation is a meditation on grief, transformation, and the fierce tenderness of being alive for a limited time.

On Living Like a Death Doula: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/death-doula-alua-arthur/

On Matters of Life and Death: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/matters-of-life-and-death/

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This week on The Nature Of, Willow speaks with Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist and author Elizabeth Kolbert about what it means to bear witness to a changing world. Drawing from her new book Life on a Little-Known Planetand her landmark work The Sixth Extinction, Elizabeth reflects on climate change, biodiversity loss, and the emotional weight of documenting both. She shares stories from the field, from melting ice in Greenland to scientists racing to catalog disappearing species, and considers the role of journalism in a time when attention feels scarce and the stakes feel enormous. This conversation explores curiosity, responsibility, and the power of paying attention, even when the truth feels heavy.

For more about Elizabeth Kolbert: https://elizabethkolbert.com/

On Holding Onto Awe Amid Biodiversity Loss: https://atmos.earth/science-and-nature/elizabeth-kolbert-and-craig-foster-holding-onto-awe-amid-biodiversity-loss/

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What does it cost to truly document the natural world, and why do some people keep returning even when the risk is real? In this episode of The Nature Of, Willow sits down with renowned conservation photographers Cristina Mittermeier and Paul Nicklen, whose lives and love story have unfolded at the edge of danger, from plane crashes and near-drownings to an encounter with a whale that nearly turned fatal. Together, they reflect on what it means to document the natural world with intimacy rather than distance, and why storytelling, vulnerability, and reverence are essential tools in the fight for our planet. This is a conversation about risk, devotion, and hope, about falling in love with each other, with the ocean, and with a living world worth protecting.

Cristina Mittermeier Reflects on Her Life Underwater: https://atmos.earth/science-and-nature/cristina-mittermeier-ocean-conservation/

60 Seconds On Earth with Cristina Mittermeier: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/60-seconds-on-earth-with-cristina-mittermeier/

Behind the Lens: https://atmos.earth/art-and-culture/behind-the-shot-nature-photography/

Thin Ice: https://atmos.earth/climate-solutions/antarctica-conservation-campaign/

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What does it mean to live in right relationship with intelligence, human, more than human, and now artificial? In this episode of The Nature Of, Willow sits down with writer, storyteller, and Life With Machines host Baratunde Thurston to explore the complicated emotions many of us are carrying about AI, from fear and overwhelm to curiosity and cautious hope. Together, they reflect on what it means to encounter a technology that feels less like a tool and more like a presence, one that may soon live alongside us as collaborator, colleague, or even neighbor, while tracing unexpected connections between artificial intelligence and natural intelligence, creativity and extraction, domination and relationship. If you are navigating your own boundaries, questions, or ambivalence around AI, this conversation is an invitation to slow down, embrace nuance, and stay in dialogue with each other, with nature, and with what is emerging.

For more about Baratunde Thurston: https://www.baratunde.com/

To watch Life With Machines: https://www.lifewithmachines.media/

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In this week’s episode of The Nature Of, Willow sits down with Robin Wall Kimmerer, beloved scientist, author of Braiding Sweetgrass,and member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation. They explore the shift from learning about to learning from nature, understanding that the land loves us back, and her new initiative Plant Baby Plant. Robin invites us to step back into belonging, and to see the natural world not as something separate from us, but as a generous teacher offering guidance every single day. This conversation is full of wonder and clarity, and it just might change the way you walk outside.

On Embracing the More-Than-Human Through Law and Language: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/embracing-the-more-than-human-through-law-and-language/

On Why The World Needs Spiritual Ecology: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/why-the-world-needs-spiritual-ecology/

Find out more about Plant Baby Plant: https://plantbabyplant.com/

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Movements evolve the way ecosystems do—through tension, adaptation, and collective resilience. In this episode, Willow is joined by writer and cultural critic Roxane Gay to explore the shifting landscape of feminism. Together, they revisit the ideas at the heart of Bad Feminist, question what’s really in crisis, and trace the possibilities that emerge when we stop ceding ground and begin tending to a broader, more interconnected ecosystem of care. This conversation invites us to imagine feminism as a living practice—one that grows with us, holds us accountable, and makes room for all of our complexity as we work toward a more generous future.

For Roxane Gay's substack: https://audacity.substack.com/

On Reproductive Choice: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/when-the-world-is-on-fire-what-does-reproductive-choice-really-mean/

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In this episode, host Willow Defebaugh is joined by renowned climate scientist and writer Kate Marvel for a conversation about her book, Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet. With poetic insight and scientific precision, Marvel reframes climate change not just as a planetary emergency, but as an emotional experience, one that demands our full humanity. Together, they explore how feelings like wonder, anger, grief, and love can become tools for engagement rather than paralysis, and what it means to hold both scientific truth and emotional complexity in a time of profound transformation.

For more about Kate Marvel and her book Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet: https://www.marvelclimate.com/

On Climate Science: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/the-emotional-whiplash-of-a-climate-scientist/

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What does it mean to move like a river and to live in flow with the world around us? In this episode, Willow is joined by one of the world’s most celebrated nature writers, Robert Macfarlane, to follow the many forms of flow—of water, of language, and of life itself. Together, they explore the question at the heart of his newest book: Is a River Alive? They trace the currents that shape our stories and laws, asking what becomes possible when we see water as something that moves through us. This conversation invites us to remember that to live is to flow, to be carried, changed, and continually renewed.

On the Life of Rivers: https://atmos.earth/climate-solutions/how-recognizing-the-life-of-rivers-could-transform-the-law

On the Wisdom of Rivers: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/the-overview-the-wisdom-of-rivers

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How can we alchemize pain into possibility? In this episode, Willow is joined by bestselling author, artist, and three-time cancer survivor Suleika Jaouad to explore the nature of imagination as a tool to help us navigate life’s most impossible moments.Through the lens of her new book, The Book of Alchemy, Suleika shares how creativity became her lifeline during her years of treatment: not just a means of expression, but a vital practice of presence, transformation, and survival. Together, they explore imagination as a force that allows us to find our way through uncertainty and re-enchant ourselves with the everyday.

For more about Suleika Jaouad: suleikajaouad.com

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The Nature Of is coming back with even more inspiring conversations. Every other week. All year long.

Join us as we continue walking this path towards reconnection with ourselves, each other, and the Earth. 

New episodes begin on October 21, 2025.

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In the season finale of The Nature Of, award-winning photographer and filmmaker Ami Vitale joins Willow for a powerful and emotional conversation about witnessing extinction and choosing hope, drawing on her extensive career photographing the most critical conservation stories of our time. Ami takes Willow through her decades-long journey from documenting human conflict to the lives of endangered species—including the final days of Sudan, the last male Northern white rhino—and the people working to protect them. Together, they reflect on what it means to tell stories with reverence, how we find our humanity through connection with the more-than-human world, and why love—not loss—is at the heart of conservation.

For more about Ami Vitale: https://www.amivitale.com/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/ami-vitale-on-the-nature-of-wildlife-and-storytelling-to-stop-extinction/

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In this episode, we explore the nature of food as a profound act of care—with the power to transform not only our health and the planet, but the very systems we live within. Maggie Baird, longtime activist, founder of Support + Feed, and mother of artists Billie Eilish and Finneas, joins Willow for a conversation rooted in compassion for humans, animals, and the Earth. From her early awakening to animal welfare to her family’s shared commitment to cultural and climate transformation, Maggie shares how plant-based food offers a hopeful path forward. Willow and Maggie discuss the myths that persist around veganism, the spiritual cost of industrial agriculture, and how joy and justice can help flavor the way we eat—for good.

For more about Maggie Bair and Support + Feed: https://supportandfeed.org/about-us/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/maggie-baird-on-the-nature-of-food-as-an-act-of-compassion/

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What if the rupture of these tumultuous times is not an ending, but an opening? In this episode, Willow speaks with Bayo Akomolafe, philosopher, poet, and thinker whose work challenges us to step beyond binaries and into the fertile, unpredictable space of emergence. They dig into how transformation doesn’t come from rigid certainty or oppositional thinking, but from the cracks—where new possibilities take root. Nature does not resolve tension; it composts it, making way for something unexpected to arise. Bayo invites us to see the turbulence of our moment not as a problem to be solved, but as an invitation to step out of fixed ways of being and embrace the "third way"—the space between and beyond, where new ways of relating, knowing, and becoming can unfold.

For more about Bayo Akomolafe: https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/

On How to Make Sanctuary in Times of Loss: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/bayo-akomolafe-on-how-to-make-sanctuary-in-times-of-loss/

On Slowing Down in Urgent Times: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/dr-bayo-akomolafe-on-slowing-down-in-urgent-times/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/bayo-akomolafe-on-the-nature-of-possibility-in-uncertain-times/

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Wealth is often defined by accumulation—but what if it was instead measured by what we sustain, regenerate, and share? In this episode, Willow speaks with Steph Speirs, co-founder of Solstice and board member of the Sierra Club Foundation, about how capital—in all its forms—can be stewarded to better support a flourishing planet. Together, they explore the shifting definition of wealth beyond money, the power of community in the clean energy transition, and how movements like the Sierra Club Foundation’s Shifting Trillions initiative are working to redirect financial flows from extraction to regeneration. At the heart of their conversation is a question both urgent and hopeful: What does it look like to resource a future where people and ecosystems thrive together?

Season one of The Nature Of is made possible in part by funding from the Sierra Club Foundation.

If you’re interested in learning more about the Sierra Club Foundation, check out their website and other projects they’re supporting:

Shifting Trillions - sierraclubfoundation.org/shifting-trillions

Sage Development Authority - anpetuwi.com

Solar Holler - solarholler.com

Navajo Power - navajopower.com

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/steph-speirs-on-the-nature-of-capital-and-ensuring-life-thrives/

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Transformation is both a personal and collective spell—one cast through intention, practice, and the courage to embrace change. Here, Willow is joined by adrienne maree brown, writer, activist, and emergent strategist, for a conversation on alchemy, witchcraft as resistance, and the magic of small, everyday acts that create lasting change. Together, they examine adrienne’s philosophy that small is all, the ways we can embody transformative justice in our relationships, and her latest book, Loving Corrections, which offers a radical vision for accountability rooted in care, not punishment. How can we transmute harm into healing? What does it mean to be in right relationship with ourselves and others? This episode is an invocation, and a call to step into our power as co-creators of the future.

For more about adrienne maree brown: https://adriennemareebrown.net/

For more on Alchemy: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/staying-rooted-in-todays-world-takes-a-little-alchemy-and-magic/

For more on Emergent Strategy: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/adrienne-maree-brown-we-are-earth/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/adrienne-maree-brown-on-the-nature-of-transformation-and-everyday-alchemy/

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Nature is not just a place—it’s a teacher, a guide, and a blueprint for innovation. Willow is joined by Janine Benyus, biologist, author, and co-founder of the Biomimicry Institute, whose groundbreaking work has transformed the way we think about designing with nature rather than against it. Together, they outline the principles of biomimicry—the practice of looking to ecosystems, organisms, and natural patterns for sustainable solutions to human challenges. From the way forests manage resources to the aerodynamics of fish, Janine reveals how nature has already solved many of the problems we face today. The question then becomes: how can we align ourselves with life in every choice we make?

For more about Janine Benyus and the Biomimicry Institute: https://biomimicry.org/janine-benyus/

For more on Biomimicry: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/the-overview-biomimicry-learning-from-lifes-genius/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/janine-benyus-on-the-nature-of-biomimicry-and-designing-life/

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In nature, solutions are everywhere—coral reefs regenerate, forests heal, and ecosystems self-balance when given the chance. So, how can we apply that same wisdom to the climate crisis? Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, a marine biologist, policy expert, a Roux Distinguished Scholar at Bowdoin College, and co-founder of Urban Ocean Lab, joins Willow for an illuminating conversation about climate optimism, systemic change, and the power of solutions-driven storytelling. As the creator of the What If We Get It Right?book and podcast, Ayana offers a compelling vision of what’s possible when we shift our focus from catastrophe to collective action. Listen as they discuss the importance of local, community-based efforts, why imagination is critical in climate work, and the role we can each play in shaping a different future.

For more about Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson's work: https://www.ayanaelizabeth.com/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/dr-ayana-elizabeth-johnson-on-the-nature-of-climate-progress-and-solutions/

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Nature is the ultimate artist—shaping landscapes over millennia, sculpting coastlines with waves, and composing symphonies in birdsong. In this episode, Grammy-nominated musician Maggie Rogers joins Willow for a conversation on creative rhythm, artistic sustainability, and the deep inspiration she draws from the natural world. As an artist who has intentionally crafted a career that honors both personal well-being and creative integrity, Maggie shares insights into how slowing down can actually enhance the creative process. Together, they explore the lessons nature teaches about cycles of rest and renewal, the importance of protecting one's artistic energy, and the power of making music—and life—at a pace that feels true.

For more about Maggie Rogers: https://www.maggierogers.com/

To find a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/maggie-rogers-on-the-nature-of-rhythm-and-making-music

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How can the way we cultivate relationships with one another offer insight into healing our fractured relationship with nature? In this episode, Willow is joined by renowned psychotherapist and bestselling author Esther Perel, whose work has reshaped how we understand intimacy, communication, and belonging in the modern world. They explore the intersections between human and ecological connection, and the epidemic of loneliness that so many are experiencing today. From the importance of relational intelligence to the role of desire in deepening our bonds, this episode unpacks how embracing the complexity of relationships—whether with people or the planet—can lead to greater resilience, reciprocity, and renewal. 

On loneliness and curiosity: https://www.estherperel.com/blog/letters-from-esther-54-curiosity-is-a-balm-for-loneliness

On mutualism: https://atmos.earth/overview-mutualism-symbiosis-deep-ecology/

On queerness in nature: https://atmos.earth/overview-nature-and-queerness-lets-talk-about-sex/

On mating behaviors: https://atmos.earth/overview-relationships-mating-games/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/esther-perel-on-the-nature-of-connection-and-modern-loneliness-ep-1/

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