THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

The hat made the Hall of Fame before he did. 

Dave Wottle’s white golf cap was a freebie handed to meet officials while he was injured in 1971, and it went into the National Track & Field Hall of Fame four years ahead of its owner.

Dominic sits down with the 1972 Olympic 800m champion, still the last American man to win the event. Their conversation starts with a shy Canton freshman who almost walked away from the track sign-up, and ends with the photo finish in Munich, when his name flashed first on the scoreboard. Wottle explains why he always considered himself a miler. He also tells how an 800 he ran purely as a speed workout ended in a tied world record he didn’t know existed, and what it felt like when Roger Bannister stopped him on his jog back to the village.

He revisits Bill Bowerman’s “traded a gold medal for a wife” jab and the chance flight that turned it into a dinner invitation. He talks about the 1973 Hayward mile against Steve Prefontaine, which he still regrets not racing for the record. He also looks back on the short-lived pro circuit, the U.S. middle-distance revival, Cooper Lutkenhaus, and the faith that grounded him.

Fifty-four years later, the autograph requests still arrive every week. Wottle’s final message is a gift to every runner: find the talent you’ve been given, do the work, and trust that the lessons this sport teaches stay with you long after the last race.

Tap into the Dave Wottle Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

https://go.run-motion.com/?coupon_code=TRE30

Jerry Schumacher called it on day one.

When Kieran Tuntivate joined the Bowerman Track Club in 2020, Jerry told him he could run any event he wanted, but he was going to be a marathoner someday. Six years later, Kieran has been with Jerry longer than anyone else in the group, and the prediction came true with a 2:08:01 Thai national record in his Chicago Marathon debut. 

Kieran thinks it could have gone better.

He takes Dominic through the whole build. He spent the summer at 4,500 feet in Park City, Utah, with peak weeks around 125 miles. Kieran explains why he kept super shoes out of his long runs and how lifting heavy twice a week held his legs together over the last 10K. 

He also lays out how the training partnership with Charles Hicks works. Charles is the marathon veteran, and Kieran brings the track speed, which is how he outkicked him at the New Haven 20K. They also get into why Kieran stayed while so many friends left Bowerman, and how Jerry coaches each generation differently. Kieran talks about Alex Ostberg as the analytical counterweight to Jerry’s eye, makes a bold call on how fast Charles can go, and describes the running boom back in Thailand.

More than anything, Kieran wants young runners in Thailand to believe they can be great distance runners, too. With 18 national records already, he’s showing them it can be done.

Tap into the Kieran Tuntivate Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @kierunner

Brought to you by: https://jeearecovery.com

Two years ago, Emily Venters almost quit. Now she’s the hottest name on American roads.

Emily returns to TRE for her second conversation, two years after a July 2024 episode about the dark side of professional running. Since then she has won three U.S. road titles in 2026, run a wire-to-wire championship record of 31:09 at the USATF 10K, and set a half marathon PB of 1:07:37 in Valencia to finish as the top American woman.

The two talk about keeping running from becoming her whole identity, even in a career-best year, and how being diagnosed with leukemia at age three may have put the fight in her early. Emily explains why she won’t post her training online and why coach David Roche, who started working with her in May, has been “a godsend” for her nerves and overthinking. She also tells the full story of her 2025 Chicago Marathon debut: the dizzy spells, and why she finished anyway after dropping out of races in the past. That decision changed how she races.

Then she says her goal out loud: the American half marathon record. She wants to see 1:05 on the clock and to help close the gap between American women and the best in the world.

This is an honest conversation with a runner who learned not to fear failure. Stay to the end to hear what she’d tell the version of herself who almost quit, and about the pizza she celebrates with.

Tap into the Emily Venters Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram:  @ventersemily on Instagram

Dominic didn’t listen, and he’s the first to admit it.

Josh Blatchford, founder and CEO of Attuned, returns to The Running Effect to put Dom’s sub-three Columbus Marathon attempt on blast. Dom took five Endurance Scans, starting with one of the best scores Attuned has seen in November 2025. Four weeks before Columbus, an Achilles injury ended his race. Josh explains how Attuned’s pattern recognition flagged Dom’s lower leg and Achilles on August 22, weeks before he felt any pain. According to Josh, the training block wasn’t the problem. Dom neglected the foundation: his feet, his posterior chain, adrenals that were already shot, and the custom remedies he never took.

Then they zoom out to data from more than 600 runner scans. Seventy-six percent flag hydration and electrolyte balance as critical, which reopens Dom’s electrolyte debate with Riley Witt. Also, runners who report great sleep are 40% more likely to avoid a critical system. Josh also explains why all but one of the Attuned runners who missed their goal in Berlin had gut issues. 

He covers why a breakup stresses the body the same way a training block does, what carbon-plated shoes may be doing to the lower leg, and why so many athletes get their results and never act on them. He also makes an emotional plea for female runners struggling with RED-S.

It’s an honest, funny conversation between two friends who log miles together, and a reminder that your body starts talking long before it hurts.

Tap into the Josh Blatchford Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @joshuablatch 

Website: attuned.health

Fifteen seconds down with 600 meters to go is not supposed to be a winning position. 

For South Eugene senior and Duke commit Yosuke Shibata, it was how his undefeated fall began. In this installment of our Fleet Feet x Brooks High School Cross Country Series, Dominic talks with the Brooks NIL athlete about how a summer of Achilles and peroneal tendonitis issues turned into the best season of his life. 

He explains why his mileage has barely changed since sophomore year, how hours on an Arc Trainer at the local YMCA kept his fitness alive, and how he scouted the final hill at Bob Firman the day before he ran everyone down on it. Yosuke goes back to seventh grade, when he joined track because his friends did, and describes himself now as a runner whose “fitness has finally caught up to my mentality.” 

He’s candid about whether the Rose City course was short behind his 14:20. He also breaks down Coach Jeff Hess’s double threshold and critical velocity training, his salt-and-a-banana take on electrolyte powders, and why he rotates his shoes. Then he describes winning the Virginia Showcase while sick, and buried in IB coursework. 

When Dominic asks how he beats Marcelo Montecon for a national title, Yosuke keeps it simple: whoever wants it more. 

Whatever happens at Balboa Park, Yosuke has already shown how far belief, consistency and a real love of the work can carry a runner, and we can’t wait to watch him chase the rest. 

Tap into the Yosuke Shibata Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Fleet Feet x Brooks XC Championships

FleetFeet.com

Instagram: @yosuke_shibataa 

YouTube: @YosukeShibataRuns

https://go.run-motion.com/?coupon_code=TRE30

Kilian Jornet doesn't look back.

Ask the greatest mountain athlete alive which moment defined him and he says: tomorrow. Dominic traces a career that began in a Pyrenees mountain hut at 2,000 meters, where Kilian's parents took him up summits as a game of finding trees and spotting animals. He entered his first ski mountaineering race at 13 only because his mother didn't know where else to put his energy. His coaches never once mentioned winning. They talked about progression, and he never stopped.

What follows is more than a highlight reel. Kilian describes the blackout on Everest: four lost hours in a night storm after his second summit in a week, waking somewhere on the north face with no idea how he got there. He explains how kids changed his relationship with risk—not because he fears dying, but because he's seen the shadow death leaves on the people who stay. And he opens up about the lowest stretch of his life, the years in his twenties after a close friend died climbing with him, when he was winning races publicly while privately taking reckless risks and drinking after competitions to manage a guilt he told no one about.

He also argues that ego and humility aren't opposites, that NNormal exists to prove a brand can succeed without fueling overconsumption, and that retirement makes no sense to him—injured right now, he still intends to compete for life.

On his legacy: he doesn't care whether anyone remembers his name. He cares what changes.

Tap into the Kilian Jornet Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Substack: Kilian Jornet's Substack 

Instagram: @kilianjornet

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jeea/jeea-companion / https://jeearecovery.com

Trevor Wright swore off running in seventh grade.

Recorded in Columbus, this conversation traces how a kid who dreaded his weekly mile-and-a-half PE “fun run” now runs before breakfast by choice. Nudged by the marathoners and triathletes on his teaching faculty, Trevor started running in 2009, fell for late-night miles after his wife went to bed, and ran several half marathons. Then kids and a busy career crept in, and six or seven years slipped away until the scale read over 200 pounds.

The turnaround came at Christmas 2023, when his brother-in-law tried to dodge a Spartan Beast race. Trevor said yes before knowing what it was, joined his first gym, dropped 50 pounds, and went on to a Trifecta and the original Beast at Killington. Sitting in church one Sunday with wrecked calves, he tried rolling them out with a pen. Nothing truly portable existed, so he built it: a 3D-printed purple prototype.

Dominic and Trevor cover quitting his sales job, selling his very first unit to a Berlin-bound Ironman, and putting the first thousand Jeea Companions on a credit card ahead of the October 27 Kickstarter. He even commits on air to a 2027 marathon. His parting message is simple and generous: do hard things and bet on yourself, because the best opportunities show up in the middle of the struggle. We’ll be cheering for him.

Tap into the Trevor Wright Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W N O T E S

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @thefounder_ish

https://launch.jeearecovery.com

Gavin Sherry found his future on a borrowed bike. 

A year ago, the former Conard High School star was still on Stanford’s cross country roster, his college career swallowed by a femoral stress fracture, two tibial stress fractures and recurring IT band trouble. Then the cross-training started to feel like the main event. Sherry tells Dominic about the moment he caught himself feeling a little excited about new pain on a run, because it meant more time on the bike. A rider he met on a group ride lent him a top-end S-Works, and Sherry took the Strava record up Old La Honda, one of the Bay Area’s most famous climbs. Within a year, he had signed with EF Education, with a WorldTour spot waiting in 2027.

Sherry breaks down what runners don’t know about cycling: 20-hour training weeks, 100 grams of carbs an hour, 7,000-calorie days, and why you can dig a deep hole on the bike without breaking a bone. He grades his first coach, ChatGPT (B-plus, maybe A-minus), and catches up on twin brother Callum’s trail racing in Japan.

He dreams of winning a Grand Tour, but his definition of success is simpler: love the life you’re living. For every runner whose body won’t cooperate, this conversation is a reminder that the engine you built doesn’t disappear. It just needs a new road.

Tap into the Gavin Sherry Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @gavin._.sherry 

Nathan Green came to talk, and he didn’t hold back.   

The 23-year-old Adidas miler swept both U.S. 1,500m titles in 2026, and he joined Dominic to defend those wins against the couch warriors who call them too slow to count. He walks through his championship résumé and fires back at critics, including a plant-selling Instagram hater he now looks forward to hearing from. 

Nathan names Hobbs Kessler as the best American 1,500m runner right now. He also makes his case for lifetime doping bans, and he and Dominic debate where the Shelby Houlihan case fits. He explains why he hates losing far more than he loves winning, which is why his bib from his fall in Silesia hangs framed on his wall. He breaks down his rivalry with Ethan Strand, down to the split math behind their 2025 NCAA finish, and shares what makes Andy Powell’s athletes such sharp tacticians. 

Nathan explains the “Stray Dogs” joke behind his Seattle training group’s unofficial name, grades his first full pro season an A, and compares college and pro training: harder workouts, about 85 miles a week counting cross-training, and a 1:48 800m rep. He guesses at his 100m time, sets his sights on more Diamond League invitations, and goes back and forth with Dominic on international athletes, age rules, and NIL in the NCAA. 

Blunt, funny, and fiercely competitive, Nathan is the kind of personality the sport needs more of, and we’re grateful he brought all of it to the show. 

Tap into the Nathan Green Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @nathanrgreen

Klaudia Kazimierska didn't just finish 2026. She owned it.In her first season under Jerry Schumacher, the Polish middle-distance star closed with three straight wins: the Diamond League Final in Brussels in a world-leading 3:54.05 national record; the inaugural World Ultimate Championship in Budapest; and Athlos London. Klaudia walks Dominic through it all, from the imposter syndrome that hit as she crossed the line first in Brussels to the "perfect race" she finally executed in Budapest after years of chasing one.The real story starts earlier, though. At 20, Klaudia was burned out in Poland, training solo, living out of a suitcase, and no longer believing she could get faster. She trusted the intuition that first drew her to Oregon. Within a week, she'd fallen back in love with running.Klaudia also opens up about the disappointment of falling short of a medal at World Indoors in her home country, and the lessons that carried her through the outdoor season. She explains how her training shifted from college to the pro ranks, why her work with a sports psychologist gives her an edge, and why she stays off Strava. She stays coy about the workout that impressed Jerry, though she drops a few tantalizing hints. Whether you're a young athlete with big dreams or just love a great breakout story, this one's for you. Dziękuję, Klaudia. We can't wait to watch what comes next.Tap into the Klaudia Kazimierska Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @klaudia.kazimierska

Salt might be the most overhyped thing in your running bag. Alex Ostberg is back from Chicago, where Charles Hicks became the No. 3 American all time on a record-eligible course, for his monthly breakdown of the last four editions of The Rundown. He and Dominic start with electrolytes, a piece prompted by Riley Witt’s hot take. They cover why sweating actually raises blood sodium, the four dials that decide whether you need a sodium plan, and why slower marathoners face more hyponatremia risk than the elites. Next, they ask how much of your training actually serves your health. The biggest drop in all-cause mortality comes from the first few minutes of exercise, and Cleveland Clinic data shows that low fitness carries more risk than diabetes or high blood pressure. Then comes paranoia, starting with Seb Coe’s Christmas Day double and Steve Ovett’s legendary reply. From there they get into hubris, the undisciplined pursuit of more, and why winners should keep auditing for weaknesses. Finally, Alex reflects on coaching Klaudia Kazimierska to the top of the 1500m world and makes the case against detailed race plans. His advice is to kill the perfect-day fallacy, contain the damage when things go wrong, and run the race in front of you. Dominic closes with a curveball, asking for the worst pre-race advice a coach can give, and Alex’s answer is one every coach should hear. The Rundown just passed 5,000 subscribers, so come join the community, and thank you for spending part of your week with us. Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Nobody builds a distance program at Harvard. Alex Gibby did it twice over 

Alex arrived at Harvard in 2017 and inherited a program that had almost never made nationals, and didn't have a single athlete setting a PR after early February. Ten years later, the Crimson men have qualified for the NCAA Cross Country Championships six straight seasons, and Gibby has coached Graham Blanks to back-to-back NCAA cross country titles and Maia Ramsden to NCAA titles in the mile and the 1500m.

In this conversation with Dominic, Gibby gets into how it actually happened. He explains why Graham's Achilles problems traced back to his toe strength, how he treats soft tissue injuries in athletes who sit at ninety-degree angles for nine hours a day, and why he bought six treadmills after last winter. He breaks down the recruiting profile he's built at a school where he only gets eight semesters: why he watches how a recruit's parents behave in the room, why "Type A+" kids get buried at Harvard, and why family of origin shapes how an athlete communicates with a coach.

He also tells the story behind the infamous LetsRun thread—the squat racks, Graham's fake YouTube channel, and a men's team he calls world-class trolls. Plus, the disastrous first six months at William & Mary that changed his coaching for good, why distance running keeps losing the investment war inside power conferences, and the exact moments he knew Blanks and Ramsden were going to be special.

Serious about the work. Never about themselves.

Tap into the Alex Gibby Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Natasza Dudek only wanted a PR. She got history instead. 

Now a junior at Ann Arbor Pioneer and the reigning Gatorade National Girls Cross Country Player of the Year, Natasza joins Dominic midway through her 2026 season to look back on the year her name went national. She remembers watching her oldest sister Zofia’s finishing kick win the 2019 Foot Locker title on a computer screen. She also explains what she learned as the youngest of three running sisters, and how weeks of workouts in the school hallways and a “feels like one degree” Brooks photo shoot tested her Michigan toughness.

Her training is refreshingly simple. She does two workouts a week, one of them up whatever “Mount Everest” her coaches can find around Ann Arbor, and she guesses she peaks at 35 to 40 miles a week. She also goes back to the last downhill at Brooks, where Blair Bartlett caught her and she told herself to stop giving up and sprint. And she talks about racing this fall as the girl everyone is chasing.

She wraps up with advice for kids hoping to make a national meet, her loaded Chipotle bowl, and the cabbage-wrapped Polish comfort dish she wishes more Americans knew. 

It’s a joy to spend time with a champion who still runs for her team, her sisters, and the fun of it. We can’t wait to cheer her on in San Diego this December.

Tap into the Natasza Dudek Special. 

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The woman who breaks four minutes in the mile has probably already been born.

That's the opening claim from Professor Andy Jones, the Exeter physiologist behind Nike's Breaking2 project, and he gives her ten to fifteen years. The problem right now, he explains, is a split field: some women have the aerobic engine and the critical speed but no anaerobic reserve, while others have the speed and no endurance. Faith Kipyegon came up short on the 800m side, and Jones believes a properly paced attempt would have landed her near 4:03—a time that would have left the stadium feeling cheated.

From there Dominic takes him back to the beginning. Jones was giving conference talks arguing that 2:02:57 badly underestimated what humans could do, Nike staff were in the audience, and a phone call to Beaverton followed. He describes choreographing the pacemaker rotations in Monza like ballet, with cats, in several languages. He makes the case that 2:00:25 was the more remarkable performance of the two attempts, and says Kelvin Kiptum would likely have been the first man under two hours in a real race. 

The second half turns personal. Jones talks about the VO2 kinetics work he's proudest of, the beetroot research that earned him a nickname, the heart condition that now caps his own easy runs, and why his new book Faster—out January 28 with a foreword from Kipchoge—argues there is no magic bullet, no best method, and nothing that beats consistency.

Tap into the Professor Andy Jones Special. 

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After Josh Kerr's mile world record, Danny Mackey had 478 unread texts. He answered about 20 of them.

The founding head coach of the Brooks Beasts Track Club joins Dominic at the end of the best season of his career. Josh Kerr broke the mile world record in London, about an hour after Brandon Miller won the 800m. Mackey still says he hasn't really reflected on any of it. He explains why: after 217 NCAA coaching rejections, he's still the guy who worries he could lose his job.

Dominic opens with a challenge: pitch a top recruit without mentioning Josh Kerr. From there, Mackey traces the Kerr partnership from its start. He first spotted Kerr's long stride across a track in Albuquerque. Mackey also names the 2024 tempo run that first made him believe a world record was possible, and confirms the 1500m record is likely next.

The conversation also gets into how Mackey coaches from inside the work rather than above it. He describes cold plunges at 6 a.m. alongside his athletes, and what Michael Jordan, Serena Williams and Rickson Gracie could teach a team.

Dominic and Danny also cover what separates good athletes from great ones, why elite coaching talent is spread acrossevery level, Spencer Brown's influence on athlete media, and a three-year-old who wanted a popsicle in the middle of a world record night.

Mackey closes with the lesson underneath all of it: nobody gets there alone. The company along the way is everything.

Tap into the Danny Mackey Special. 

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Some coaches chase talent. Todd Witzleben builds it.

When Witzleben took over at Manhattan University in June 2025, one regional ranking had the Jaspers 41st out of 42 teams in the Northeast, with six men on the cross country roster. A year later, there are 16, and he's talking about a 7:25 time in the 4x800 relay. Dominic sits down with the former Buffalo associate head coach to talk through the rebuild: from leaving a MAC program when a promotion request got laughed off, to the alumni who still care about a 1973 NCAA indoor title and a 1974 American record in the 4x mile.

Witzleben explains his formula: "big boy volume," with lots of threshold work and hill strength, and workouts nobody brags about. He makes the case for recruiting 9:30 two-milers in a roster-limit era, pointing to Leon Atkins, who never broke two minutes in high school and placed 16th at NCAAs. 

There's plenty of personality here, too. He named one son Charlie after his La Salle coach and the other Miles for exactly the reason you'd guess. He went from finance major to Citibank telemarketer to calling recruits for a living. And ahead of this weekend's Manhattan Invitational, he gives a course walkthrough of Van Cortlandt Park, including why the railroad ties now race like a steeplechase.

For anyone who believes a program, or a runner, is never too far gone, this one's for you.

Tap into the Coach Todd Witzelben Special. 

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Vinny Mauri got drug tested at a Planet Fitness.

Five months after his 2:05:54 marathon at Glass City made him the fastest marathon debutant in American history, the self-coached Ohioan returned to the show just days before his second marathon in Chicago.

Dominic starts hot. Vinny explains why he emailed USADA himself the day after Toledo, why he feels honored rather than offended by the doubters, and how his first official test finally happened at the treadmill he uses right in front of the lobby. Then the training gets absurd: a 4:11 net-uphill mile in the middle of a long run at Pittsburgh's North Park; Tuesdays that reach 45 miles; a 30-mile treadmill long run at just over five-minute pace;near 140 miles peak weeks . 

Vinny also explains why he chose ASICS, why he's still selling shoes at Second Sole, and why he won't put a number on Sunday. He calls Toledo his debut effort and Chicago his debut race, weighs Clayton Young's shot at the American record, and explains why two miles under nine minutes would make him back off. Mostly, he just wants to reach the start line smiling.

He closes with advice for every runner still waiting on a breakthrough: sometimes you take a step back, and sometimes that step sets up a leap. Then Dominic extracts a promise involving the Ohio state cross country meet.

Listen before Sunday's gun goes off, and find out why all of Ohio is about to rally behind its king.

Tap into the Vinny Mauri Special. 

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Four hundred straight dual meet wins don't happen by accident. 

Sean McCafferty, entering his tenth year as head cross country coach at Christian Brothers Academy (CBA) in Lincroft, New Jersey, joins Dominic to unpack the culture behind one of the most storied programs in high school running. Sean ran at CBA before competing at Princeton, and he later took over the program from Tom Heath, who led it for 45 years. He talks openly about the years he spent trying to coach like someone else before realizing he was better as himself.

He walks through the national-record dual meet streak and the brotherhood that fills the space football would occupy at most schools. He also explains how a phone-free school fits with the super shoes and GPS watches today's freshmenarrive with. Sean talks about the 2021 season that sent him back to the drawing board, and also explains the "singles and walks" mindset he preaches from the first practice in June to the night before NXN.

The most moving part of the conversation honors Alex Kemp, the former CBA state champion and Williams standout whose name now goes on the Manhattan Invitational trophy. Sean reflects on leading his team through grief, the third-place NXN finish that his runners dedicated to Kemp, and receiving the Joe Newton Coach of the Year Award. 

The episode also covers a young Edward Cheserek dropping college runners on a Sunday run, and the Jumbo Elliott mantra Sean's father passed down: keep it simple.

Tap into the Sean McCafferty Special. 

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Ethan Strand is a national champion who still believes he finished second.

He found out Jonah Koech had been busted for doping in the middle of a treadmill run, when Parker Wolfe tapped him on the shoulder, and his first reaction was anger. In this conversation, Ethan tells Dominic why the title still feels strange, why he feels worse for Hobbs Kessler, and why he thinks a positive test should end a career. He also covers the unglamorous side of racing clean: updating his whereabouts before dinner, keeping the last pills from every supplement batch, and making an 80-minute round trip to meet a drug tester.

Then there's his rookie year. Ethan admits he froze on the line at the Millrose two-mile, chasing a win with no plan, and that social media expectations helped sink his indoor season. Mike Smith's fix was to go back to basics: smaller races, pre-race checklists, and no talk of winning. Pre was where he felt like himself again, and the Silesia win over Hocker and Ingebrigtsen followed. So did Zurich four days later, which he blames on enjoying the attention too much.

Ethan also talks about sessions with Parker and Nico Young at 7,000 feet, why he's running less mileage than he did at UNC, and why he'd beat Simeon Birnbaum seven times out of ten. And he shares what Jakob said in the Brussels call room.

His goal for Year Two is to take more risks so that his bad days end in fifth instead of eleventh.

Tap into the Ethan Strand Special. 

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Aleksander Lingauer is stepping away from running. He says it out loud here for the first time.

This one was recorded in person in Columbus, the fourth time he and Dominic have sat down together and the first time with no race waiting on the other side of it. Near the end, Aleksander announces that he is pausing his racing indefinitely. The reason is a book—the account of his 419-day solo walk across Europe, shelved when he signed as an athlete, now being finished. It arrives next year.

Before that, the fullest account he has given of the Last Soul Ultra: crewing Mark Dowdle through the closing hours, and the truth about Loop 87. Whose idea it was. What it was built to do. And what did not happen out there, whatever people decided they saw on the stream.

The rest is the conversation two friends have when nobody is watching the clock. They ruminate on what actually separates the people who win backyards from everyone who doesn't. Why you will not start in January, no matter what you tell yourself in September. What a Catholic Mass in Ohio did to him. And what he means when he says he is a mosaic of mistakes.

It keeps returning to one idea: you think nobody sees what you do in private, and you are wrong, because you are watching.

Two and a half hours. No agenda. Worth every minute.

Tap into the Aleksander Piotr Lingauer Special.

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Marcelo Mantecon has spent his whole career as the young guy. Not anymore.

The Belen Jesuit senior joins Dominic for the next episode of our Fleet Feet series leading into the Brooks Cross Country National Championships, and he arrives carrying something he didn't have last December: a target. He talks about welcoming the pressure that comes with being the top returner, about what he absorbed watching Jackson Spencer stay calm on start lines while his own nerves churned, and about learning to convert that nervousness into excitement instead of dread.

The training picture is stranger and simpler than you'd expect from the nation's most-watched high schooler. He doesn't wear a watch most days. He can't tell you his exact mileage, and he runs Miami's brutal humidity. He credits sleep above everything else for keeping himself intact, and he credits Frankie Ruiz, the coach he has known since birth, for a program built on consistency rather than heroics. 

Marcelo also revisits Balboa Park in detail: the gap that opened at the bottom of the hill, getting caught, and praying for one more surge with 300 meters left. His plan for the rematch is almost defiant: Have fun. Stay aggressive. Race like he still has nothing to lose.

Along the way, the two discuss Flagstaff team trips and flooded shoes in the Everglades, his sister's rise, UNC and a future in finance, why the class of 2027 might be one of the deepest ever, and a post-race celebration involving roughly a hundred donuts.

Tap into the Marcelo Mantecon Special. 

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Behind Graham Blanks' 12:47 5K & 7:27 3K: 6:00min Easy Days, Training Alone & Racing Jakob Ingebrigtsen 

Graham Blanks can tell you exactly what he did wrong in every race he ran this year.

Monaco is the exception, and the one he's most excited about. It's the only race this season he finished and then couldn't sleep—his own heuristic for a good one—and the first time he really put down a fast 400m at the end. After that, closing hard got easier, because he knew he could.

The rest he breaks down with unusual candor. In Zurich, he waited too long to move, got stuck in lane two while Parker Wolfe opened a gap. Brussels, he was right on Balew's shoulder thinking about the American record, then Balew went all out from 300m to go and Graham got defensive instead of racing to the line. At Budapest, he made a big move at 300m to go, was right on the leaders at 200, and then Jakob came past. Looking back, he thinks he had the juice to take the lead with 200 to go. 

One small mistake per race—and being in position to make those mistakes at all is the leap from last year.

He also walks Dominic through the training. Six years with Alex Gibby, Harvard through the pro ranks, and the program is much the same minus the mid-workout bench press. This year: mileage up to 105-110 for a stretch, plus twice-weekly all-out sprint work. He’s still doing six-minute pace on easy days, mostly alone in Athens on a quiet public track.

The 2027 goal is simple. He wants to win something—a Diamond League race, the Trials, worlds—and let the confidence compound. The guys also touch on soccer practice, Columbia, a "fratified" Harvard team, and his fall movie pick.

Two guys named Dom, one goal, two completely opposite ways of getting there.

Dom Fusco returns to the show for the first time since March 2023, and this one isn't about his cardiac arrest—it's about the question flooding Dominic's DMs: how do you build real muscle without giving up your running times? Fusco has done it from the football side, Dominic from the distance running side, and both are now chasing sub-3 marathons this fall.

They open where the Austin hybrid scene actually lives: peptides, HGH, and TRT. Fusco has never touched any of it and won't endorse it, but he's honest that more people are using it than listeners think. 

From there it's the practical stuff. Why you can't pull the endurance lever and the strength lever at the same time, and why seasons beat balance. Why the jacked hybrid athletes on your feed spent a decade lifting before they ever ran. Why full-body training three times a week beats a bro split. The triangle of performance, longevity, and aesthetics, and the cost of picking a corner.

They also discuss Fusco's five foundational supplements, his case for creatine as a runner's recovery tool, and a blunt argument that most athletes are chronically underfueled—and why sometimes a burger and fries is the right call.

He also puts his sub-3 confidence at 60%, admits he's failed three times, and explains what Austin heat has done to this block.

Tap into the Dominic Fusco Special. 

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Dominic sits down with Carter Cutting, Isaac Hedengren and Tayvon Kitchen a day after the Cougars opened their season in Terre Haute. It starts as a debate—Jakob versus Kerr; whether Hawker belongs in that tier; whether one down year should count against anybody—and the three of them push back hard enough that Dominic ends up defending his take alone.

From there it turns into the story behind New Standard, the channel they built after an indoor season of workouts none of them thought were possible. Coach Eyestone hated the cameras at first, and the phrase itself came out of watching teenagers run times that made the old ceilings look silly.

Tayvon finally talks about the workouts everyone used to whisper about: post-race 800s, sub-two splits, a coach who barely looked up. Hedengren goes the other direction—41 miles a week as a high school senior, a jogging-stroller childhood, a dad who ran for Eyestone in the 90s, and a sister who beat him in every workout. They get into the Belgian draft horse math that explains why teammates pull more together than alone; the realities of an increasingly international NCAA; and a sleep bet that ends in a bleached mullet.

Plus, speed suits on grass, why a miler still cares about cross country, what a November-focused build looks like at BYU, and a hypothetical dinner for Gordon Ramsay that nobody wants to cook alone.

Tap into the Carter Cutting, Isaac Hedengren and Tayvon Kitchen Special. 

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Parker Wolfe was the 43rd man on a 42-man Olympic list. Now, he's making the case for rookie of the year in professional running.

Dominic sits down with the Swoosh TC Flagstaff star to unpack a debut season that reads like a highlight reel: a USATF cross country title on a muddy Portland course, top American honors at World XC in Tallahassee, a first sub-13 indoor 5K, a 12:49.45 Diamond League debut in Oslo, and a front-running Prefontaine Classic two-mile win over Grant Fisher.

Parker opens up about going from top dog at UNC to "the new kid on the block" as a pro, why the professional peak is the hardest one to climb, and how he nearly committed to Duke before Chapel Hill won him over. 

He breaks down the transition from Chris Miltenberg to Mike Smith—more mileage, double thresholds, and a Flagstaff training group so deep he never lacks a partner, from Ethan Strand and Nico Young to the occasional Galen Rupp appearance. 

He makes his case that full buy-in beats a perfect program, walks through the Mo Farah-inspired tactics behind his gutsy front-running win at Hayward, and lands on the lesson at the heart of it all: people overestimate what they can do in a season and underestimate what they can do in a couple years of consistency.

Plus, decoding Nike's confusingly structured Swoosh TC, Parker's five-runner Netflix docuseries cast, Nuggets loyalty, and the Lil Wayne deposition tape Coach Smith screened before Cross Nationals.

Tap into the Parker Wolfe Special. 

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Alex Hutchinson ran his 1500-meter breakthrough because a timekeeper called the splits wrong.

He’d been stuck at just over four minutes for three years. Then, in one indoor race, a mistimed clock told him he was running three seconds faster than he was—and he ran 3:52, then 3:49, then 3:44 across the next two months. His old coach went through the logs looking for the reason. There wasn’t one.

That story sits at the center of this conversation with the physicist-turned-journalist behind Endure and the Sweat Science column at Outside. Alex is a self-described data guy who spent a career chasing what’s measurable and kept colliding with the part of running that isn’t: the days something shifts, the races where belief outperforms any supplement. He walks through the ice bath study that separated the cold water from the story we tell ourselves about it, the self-talk intervention that produced an 18 percent gain in time to exhaustion, and why he’s careful about debunking things that work because we believe in them.

They also get into Breaking2 versus the Kipyegon sub-4 attempt, why times keep sliding and what that does to a high schooler, coaches who invent splits mid-workout and the trust that makes that work, and the two years Alex spent fighting his college program before deciding to run the workouts as written.

At 50, he’s back racing masters cross country, for his teammates. They also touch on Zátopek, Paula Radcliffe, and why you should never, ever take a PR for granted.

Tap into the Alex Hutchinson Special. 

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Hans Troyer led Western States for 62 miles, DNF’d, and still calls the day a win. 

Eight weeks later he was on the CCC podium, which tells you most of what you need to know about how he metabolizes a bad race. Dominic welcomes back the 26-year-old for the first time since before his 2025 Western States debut, and Hans admits the stretch since has felt like three years crammed into one.

He traces the self-belief back to Bandera in 2024, when a few coachless months in Georgia were enough to prove to himself he could hang with anyone. On Western States, he is unsparing and unbothered at once: he went in giving himself a ten percent chance to win, came out believing it was eighty, and wrote every lesson down in a notebook. 

He breaks down what the Alps taught him at CCC: from the climbs that go straight up to the hiking and poles he had never practiced with.

The training talk is specific. Hans walks through his jump to 120-130 mile weeks peaking at 145, up to 36,000 feet of vert before CCC, the move to Boulder in March, and the sweat test that revealed he had spent years taking in triple the sodium he needed. He defends his much-criticized diet with a simple argument about aid stations, explains why he fuels every run over ninety minutes like it is race day, and leaves young runners with carbs, consistency, and a reminder to enjoy their lives.

Tap into the Hans Troyer Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Nobody quits while they're ahead.

Alex Ostberg is back for the guys’ monthly walk through of The Rundown, and this one runs from the foundations of the sport to the psychology of knowing when to walk away.

They open with ten things Alex wishes he knew as a high school runner—the talk that started this whole collaboration, and one he still finds himself repeating to professionals a decade later. Why consistency beats perfection. Why a plateau isn't a bug in the program. What quietly rots a team culture from the inside. And here’s the line worth writing down: you don't rise to the occasion, you fall back on your preparation.

Then a runner's guide to protein: what this macronutrient is actually doing in a body that has nowhere to store it; what the science now says about the anabolic window and how much you can use in one sitting; where the real daily target comes from; and why the animal-versus-plant question is messier than either camp wants to admit. Dominic pushes back hard on the plant-based side, and Riley Witt's anti-electrolyte take gets its moment too.

And then the hard one: why almost nobody quits on time; how sunk cost keeps runners in workouts, seasons, careers andrelationships long past their expiration date; and the two tools Alex uses to make that call before emotion takes the wheel.

They close on a big weekend for Alex's athletes—a 1-2 at the US 20K Championships, a world title, and a marathon debut coming in Chicago.

Tap into the The Rundown Recap Special. 

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Rocky Hansen spent the offseason quietly begging Habtom Samuel not to turn pro.He lost to Samuel twice—the NCAA cross country final in November and the outdoor 5,000 in June—and his reaction to Samuel leaving wasn't a relief. It was a feeling of disappointment at losing the rematch. That instinct sits at the center of this conversation, recorded a few weeks into Rocky's final collegiate season.They get into the race he's proudest of, which he also lost. Samuel got him by a second and a half, and he calls it the best tactical race of his NCAA career.There's a lot here about the margins: the heat stroke at ACCs that finally sent him to a nutritionist; sleep and naps around 6:30 a.m. practices; the slowest summer buildup he's ever done; and six weeks in Europe not being Rocky the Runner. He also makes the case that the happy runner is the fast runner, by way of an engineering professor who once assigned him homework to have fun on purpose.He's candid about last fall, when Wake Forest returned most of a seventh-place team, assumed the podium was theirs, and watched the fire go out. And he's thoughtful about what the NCAA has become: a pro league, in his words, and one he loves competing in while recognizing the high schoolers it has squeezed out.Plus: Terre Haute, mud, and why he won't put a number on November.Tap into the Rocky Hansen Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @rocky_hansen_

Jordan Hasay Hogan never officially retired.

She was the most hyped teenager in American distance running. She was a Foot Locker champion as a freshman, she acquired eight California state titles, was an Olympic Trials 1500m finalist at sixteen—and then went on to run a 2:20:57 marathon in Chicago. In this conversation, she opens up about the Nike Oregon Project years in a way almost nobody has.

She walks Dominic through the actual training: 115-mile weeks, 25-mile long runs with fifteen at six-minute pace on an altitude treadmill before ten more miles at marathon pace, and Alberto Salazar's habit of tacking on surprise reps until athletes cracked. The centerpiece is the session she still calls the hardest of her life—a morning tempo, then 400s at 58 seconds that were supposed to be four and became ten, with Galen Rupp jumping in to pace, and Jordan averaging 58.7.

Underneath all of it is faith. 

The priest who traveled with the group to majors, the wrist rosary she wore in every marathon, and the Catholic athletes' conference where she met Alberto by what she can only call fate. She explains the Kobe tribute kit at the 2020 Trials, the comment he left on her Instagram after she tore her hamstring, and how studying his mental game shaped the way she coaches today.

On a comeback she's candid: most likely done, maybe one percent, and it would take a miracle. The fulfillment now comes from Hogan Performance and from her son, Micah.

Tap into the Jordan Hasay Hogan Special. 

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Colin Sahlman finished 151st at NCAA cross country as a freshman. Four years later he left college with three national titles.Colin returns to the show for the first time since high school, now a Nike athlete training with Swoosh TC in Flagstaff. He walks through the part of the story most people skipped: the freshman year that humbled him, the sophomore cross country season where he didn't even make the travel squad, and the junior year where he missed the outdoor 1500 final and coach Mike Smith floated calling the season early. Colin said no, asked to run the 800 instead, and ran 1:44 for the first time.What changed his senior year wasn't the training getting harder—it got easier. He slowed his threshold work by roughly ten seconds a mile, stopped burning himself out, and went to every line believing he'd win. That belief carried him to 16th at NCAA cross country, a Millrose 800 win over a world-class field, the indoor 3000 and DMR titles at nationals, and the outdoor 800 crown in his final collegiate race.He calls it delusional confidence, and it's the spine of the whole conversation.They also get into why the NCAA humbles almost everyone and why your timeline isn't anyone else's; the Mike Smith phone call that could have gone very differently; what it means to reunite with Smith alongside Nico Young, Ethan Strand, Parker Wolfe and Drew Bosley; and why the 800 or 1500 question is still wide open heading into an Olympic year.Tap into the Colin Sahlman Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Personal Instagram: @colinsahlman Photography Instagram: @colins_cam

Jess McClain almost skipped her first Foot Locker Nationals for a high school dance.

Her coach talked her out of it, and she went on to become one of only 27 girls in the meet's history to make all four national finals—2006 through 2009, alongside classmate Emily Sisson.

Sixteen years later, she's the fastest American woman ever to run Boston.

Jess kicks off the Call Room: Golden Ticket Edition, presented by Fleet Feet, leading into the Brooks Cross Country National Championships. She and Dominic start with the heat, since she grew up in Phoenix waking at 4:15 a.m. five days a week and still trains there today. Her answer is effort-based work and a lot of grace, and it's the same approach she used at fifteen.

From there they walk Balboa Park year by year: 24th as a wide-eyed freshman; then 20th; then 10th; then 13th as a senior ranked fourth in the country. Jess fondly recalls the free backpack, the West Region blue, the hill everyone underestimates, and the friendships still going. She talks about Coach Messer's precision and Coach Van Sickle's fun, three state team titles at Xavier, and why the team races mattered more than the individual ones.

Then the meet's near-death last year, why she immediately thought Brooks should save it, and what the golden ticket system means for kids whose schedules don't line up.

Her advice for anyone chasing a spot this fall: be in the mile you're in, and make the process worth the goal.

Tap into the Jess McClain Special. 

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Fleet Feet x Brooks XC Championships

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You can't out-tough sleep.

That's Todd Anderson's whole argument, and he makes it as a guy who tried. A walk-on fullback at Michigan State who signed with the Rams of the NFL in 2012, Todd spent a decade in strength and conditioning before deciding the highest-leverage hour of an athlete's day is the one they spend unconsciously. 

He's now co-founder and CEO of Dream Performance & Recovery and is working toward a PhD in sleep psychology.

Dominic caught him marathon mid-buildup—Todd's training for Chicago, Dominic for Columbus—and the conversation goes deep on why runners are the worst offenders. Perceived exertion and pain tolerance are among the first things to degrade when you're underslept, so chronic short sleep doesn't just cap your ceiling, it makes every mile hurt more. Todd's comparison: it's like training every day in 100-degree heat.

They get into the seven-hour floor and where that number actually comes from, the 2024 lab studies where unrestricted sleepers settled at eight and a half hours, and how to tell whether you're carrying sleep debt. Todd breaks down the mechanics of nasal breathing—nitric oxide, CO2 tolerance, and why the strips may do more for you asleep than on the run—plus why 80% of people have a deviated septum and don't know it.

Also, why screen damage is dose-dependent; what you watch matters as much as the light; Todd's hypothesis that marathon records would fall faster in the afternoon; and how long he thinks Dominic would survive in a 230-degree sauna.

Tap into the Todd Anderson Special. 

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Note from Dominic: for the first time in 800 episodes, had a weird issue where Ann's recording didn't save the last 5ish minutes of the podcast. So if it ends semi-abruptly that's why. Thank you for your understanding (: Enjoy!

Ann Dunn wasn't looking for one of the biggest jobs in collegiate distance running. 

Then she came home from a run to a text from Chris Miltenberg, and two months later, she's the new head coach of UNC women's cross country.

Dominic sits down with Ann just two weeks after Carolina made it official, and she shares the full behind-the-scenes story: the phone call with Milt, why he decided to split the men's and women's distance coaching so each group gets a dedicated touch point, and what made her say yes. Ann explains how a decade away from the NCAA (earning a master's in exercise physiology, building Formula Complete Fitness from the ground up in Charlottesville, and coaching The Covenant School to state titles) turned out to be an advantage, not a gap on the résumé.

She opens up about holding humility and confidence at the same time, the conversation with her husband Jason that made the move possible, and the FaceTime call from Maddie and Reese (her former Covenant stars, now Tar Heels) after Milt dropped the news. Ann also revisits her own Wisconsin story, where her team climbed from last in the Big Ten to fourth at NCAAs in two years; lays out her goals for Carolina (top 5–10 nationally, competing for ACC titles); offers advice for high schoolers making the jump to college running; and pushes back on Dominic's claim that American teams can't win NCAA titles in the international-talent era.

New chapter, new coach, same standard: Carolina blue with big goals.

Tap into the Ann Dunn Special. 

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Riley Witt says a hot bath beats a microdose of EPO.

That's where this one opens, and it doesn't slow down. Riley walks through passive heat training—45 minutes at 104 degrees, four or five times a week, and the plasma volume adaptations that come with zero skeletal strain. He explains why water cooks you faster than a sauna, why going straight from a run into the heat multiplies the effect, and why a hot bath before bed will wreck your sleep instead of helping it.

From there: electrolytes as the most overhyped supplement on the market, why a real sports drink needs sugar, and the carbohydrate timing window that can leave you hypoglycemic on the start line.

Then the doping conversation. Riley talks about how WADA actually decides what gets banned, why most NCAA testing is looking for recreational drugs, and what a caffeine limit is really protecting you from. Dominic brings the Shelby Houlihan case and a stat on tainted supplements that Riley refuses to accept, which turns into the most detailed account you'll hear of what certification actually costs—the audit, the quarantine room, the batch testing.

And the one everyone will argue about: how a guy with a 3:59 mile runs threshold at 4:00 pace. Riley explains his actual lactate numbers, why 200s at 32 seconds still count, and the theory he's building with Dr. Bill Evans around assisted running and running economy.

Plus steeplechase heat, the Odyssey soundtrack, and why Riley would pay a million dollars for six seconds.

Tap into the Riley Witt Special. 

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Bicarb.shop – Official online store

Instagram: @riwitt03; @iamrileywitt; @bicarb.shop

Andreas Almgren just won European gold by lapping half the field—and six days later, he announced he's stepping up to 26.2 miles for the first time.

In this episode, recorded mid-marathon-buildup with the aches to prove it, Almgren breaks down the decision to make his marathon debut at the TCS New York City Marathon on November 1, and why he chose the toughest, slowest Major Marathon over a flat time-trial course like Valencia. 

He explains the front-running gamble that produced his historic 27:23.44 in the 10,000m in Birmingham—a 3:17 opening kilometer that forced him to take the race into his own hands from the third lap—and what it actually feels like to lap the field and win a championship by 19 seconds. Almgren gets into the mechanics of the buildup itself: mileage climbing toward 230K (142 miles) a week, fueling 120 grams of carbs an hour on long runs, testing new super-trainers versus carbon race shoes, and the durability work required to survive New York's bridges and hills. 

He also opens up on the "dark years" between 2016 and 2020, the 800m speed he's carrying into a marathon debut, and why he's not ruling out a 10,000m/marathon double at the 2028 Olympics. Plus, a shoutout to double-threshold godfather Marius Bakken, a very Swedish story about a track meet against Finland, and what it's like to become a national hero overnight. 

A wide-ranging, funny, and technical conversation with one of the most versatile distance runners in the world right now.

Tap into the Andreas Almgren Special. 

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https://www.amazon.com/dp/8269471100

Most runners aren't training too hard. They're spreading the hard work too thin.

Marius Bakken has spent thirty years proving it. The Norwegian physician and two-time Olympian pricked his finger more than 5,500 times—on himself, on training partners, on runners in Kenya—to map one narrow band of intensity, and the framework he built from it is what the world now calls the Norwegian Method. This conversation is the compressed version of his new book, The Norwegian Method Applied, out now on Amazon with a link in the show notes.

We start where everyone should: defining threshold, and why the 4.0 mmol/L figure you were taught is the wrong anchor. Marius explains how to find your own zone without a meter by triangulating heart rate, pace, and the talk test, then walks through a full Norwegian Method week from Sunday to Saturday. Two double-threshold days, one genuinely hard session, easy running held strictly under 70 percent of max heart rate. The logic behind stacking two threshold sessions into one day rather than scattering them across the week is the whole argument in miniature.

Then the part most people skip when they copy the method: the muscular case. Marius argues that muscles, not the heart and lungs, cap how much training a runner can absorb, and that muscle tone is why some days feel effortless and others don't. He gets into why carbon-plated shoes are the first thing he checks when an injured runner walks into his clinic, where strength work belongs in the week, how he'd build a national-championship high school program, and where this method stops working.

His three takeaways, unedited: run easy on the easy days, control intensity on the hard days, limit intense work to once a week. Then see what happens.

Tap into the Marius Bakken Special.

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He built a world-class pro group in Baltimore. Then he left it for a college roster of 30. 

Five years after his first appearance on the show, Cory Leslie returns as Ole Miss's new associate head cross country and assistant track & field coach, fresh off nearly five years building Under Armour's Mission Run Baltimore into a group that produced Olympians and World XC medalists from a city nobody expected it from.

He walks Dominic through how fast it all happened: a casual conversation with Connie Price-Smith at USATFs in New York, a formal interview an hour before his Uber to the airport for the Commonwealth Games, and an offer thirty minutes later. Then a scramble to Oxford weeks before the season opener.

The conversation gets into why he's moving toward college athletics while other coaches are heading for the exit—the impact he thinks he can have on thirty athletes instead of a handful, and his conviction that plenty of American talent will fall through the cracks under roster limits. He's blunt about what that means in recruiting: if you don't have Olympic dreams, the SEC probably isn't for you.

Also covered: what he's telling a team that's had three coaches in one summer; why he's sending them to Memphis on tired legs; the SEC as the best non-Diamond-League track in America; soft-surface trails a half mile from the locker room; what he's leaving behind in Baltimore; and—because it's late August—Ohio State loyalties, Julian Sayin's Heisman case, and a Buckeyes-Rebels title game prediction.

Tap into the Cory Leslie Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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The most famous voice in running almost quit before he ever got fast. It took a bad workout (and a girlfriend on the verge of dumping him) to turn Chris Bennett into Coach B.

Nike's Global Running Head Coach and the voice in millions of ears on the Nike Run Club app sits down with Dominic for a conversation about what actually builds greatness—and it's not what you think. Coach B traces his path from "incredibly lazy" college runner at UNC to architect of one of the great high school dynasties at Christian Brothers Academy, where his teams chased NXN titles knowing they'd fail more often than they'd win. That, he argues, is exactly the point.Along the way: the college teammate whose blunt ultimatum changed his life (he married her); why it's cool to care in a generation obsessed with being nonchalant; and the legendary Stanford story of Vin Lanana asking his team who would make the Olympic squad—and the three who stayed standing did. Coach B breaks down the difference between confidence and arrogance, why "weird" is a synonym for remarkable, why he measures athletes by their worst performances instead of their best, and why you'll never do the work required to be great unless you're having fun doing it.Recorded weeks before the September 1st release of his first book, This Is About Running. This Is Not About Running., this one delivers exactly what the title promises: an hour about running that's about everything else, too.Press play. Then go be chalant about something.Tap into the Coach Bennett Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Coach Bennett Instagram

Jemma Reekie doesn't remember most of her records—she just ran and found out later.

The Scottish 800m/1500m star joins Dominic fresh off a fifth-place finish in the stacked Birmingham 2026 Euro 800m final, and opens up about a career that's been defined by extremes: three British indoor records broken in eight days as a 21-year-old who didn't even know what the records were; a fourth-place finish at the Tokyo Olympics decided by 0.09 seconds; and a Paris 2024 Olympics that looked like her best shot at a medal on paper but ended without even a final—a result that triggered the lowest point of her career, including a battle with disordered eating and anxiety she didn't get help for until six months later.

Jemma talks candidly about rebuilding under coach Jon Bigg after that low, why the mental side of the sport is harder for her than the physical, and how bringing in a breathing coach helped her find stability. She also breaks down her training in detail—60 miles a week, mostly doubles, a strong aversion to slow running, and a "no phone until training's done" rule that's changed her focus. 

Plus, her friendly rivalry with Keely Hodgkinson, the story behind her cinematic training videos with videographer Ollie, and where her heart really lies between the 800m and 1500m heading toward LA.

A raw, funny, and honest conversation with one of British middle distance's most resilient competitors.

Tap into the Jemma Reekie Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Instagram: @jemmareekie

X: @JemmaReekie

TikTok: @jemma_reekie

NEWSLETTER: https://therundownbytherunningeffect.substack.comThe magic workout you're chasing doesn't exist. In fact, the urge to prove your fitness before race day might be the very thing that breaks you.Alex Ostberg is back for our monthly recap of The Rundown, his weekly newsletter that lands in your inbox every Thursday. The former Stanford and UNC All-American, now an assistant coach at Nike's Swoosh Track Club in Eugene, joins Dominic to unpack the four biggest pieces from the past month—and the timing couldn't be better with cross country season underway.First up: why the best runners gain fitness instead of proving it, featuring Jakob Ingebrigtsen's carrot-farming metaphor and the cautionary tale of the indicator workout that helped derail Alex's senior cross country season. Then the duo digs into bicarb—what it actually does inside your muscles, why the old soda-loading era was a deal with the devil, and whether the one-to-two-percent edge matters for anyone who isn't already elite.From there, the conversation moves upstream. Racing depends on training, but training depends on the lifestyle underneath it, and Alex walks through the four environmental defaults he changed at Stanford that made discipline automatic. Finally, the conversation that saved his running career: Coach Milt holding up a mirror to a struggling sophomore and reminding him, "You wanted this."Along the way: negative visualization, hardship inoculation, Warren Buffett on trust, and why willpower always loses to the environment.Subscribe to The Rundown (always the first link below) and get faster in three to five minutes every Thursday.Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Your body doesn't know the difference between Coca-Cola and watermelon. And according to registered sports dietitian Cortney Berling, that might be the most freeing thing a runner can learn.

Back for her third appearance on The Running Effect, Cortney joins Dominic to dismantle the food rules holding runners back, starting with the sport's most controversial question: does weight loss actually make you faster? Her answer is a masterclass in why general nutrition advice fails athletes, especially female ones. 

The guidelines on your food label were built around a 154-pound reference man from 1941, not a marathoner in a training block, and definitely not a 14-year-old girl navigating puberty.

Cortney shares her own story of underfueling, doing everything society called "healthy" until she lost her period and, for a time, her ability to have kids, and explains why the runners plateauing hardest are usually the ones eating the least. Her rule is simple: only run the miles you're willing to fuel for.

Along the way, the two get refreshingly practical. Why full-sugar Coke beats Diet Coke after a long run. Race-day fueling blueprints for cross country and multi-race track meets. The hydration equation every runner should know. Why eating before bed isn't the sin you've been told it is, and how liquid calories save high-mileage athletes drowning in grocery bills.

But the biggest takeaway might be Cortney's fifth and final point: your relationship with food matters just as much as the food itself. You don't earn your food by running, you earn your run by eating enough.

Tap into the Cortney Berling Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Coaching:Eat Well Perform Better 

Instagram:  @eatwell.runbetter

Josh Kerr didn't chase the mile world record, he created it. And the man who spent six years helping him build the mind to do it is finally telling the story.

Jose Maresma is Kerr's sports psychologist, a clinical exercise physiologist with 35 years of experience spanning the Olympic Training Center, the NFL, NBA, special operators, ER doctors, and CEOs. Their partnership started with a pickaxe: Maresma invited Kerr to his men's group, where the Olympic medalist cracked through four inches of ice at six in the morning and realized the anxiety felt exactly like stepping on a starting line.

This conversation goes far beyond race tactics. Maresma and Dominic dig into the trauma that drives high achievers; the belief that love and belonging are contingent on succeeding; why so many people find running as an outlet; and where anyone can start doing the inner work. Maresma opens up about the loss that led him to become a meditation teacher, and breaks down practical tools you can use today: breath work, the physiological sigh, nasal breathing, and how to pull your mind back into your body mid-race.

Then there's the record itself. Maresma takes us inside the final session, the time trial that felt "too easy," the cue to surrender rather than fight, and what he saw from the stands when Kerr and his pacers locked into formation like fighter jets.

What sets Josh Kerr apart? Not discipline. Curiosity, brutal self-honesty, and the healthiest ego Maresma has seen in 35 years.

Tap into the Jose Maresma Special. 

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-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Find Jose's work at embodiedspirits.com or @josevo2max on Instagram

Pete Julian didn't beat cancer—he survived it, and that distinction shapes everything about how he coaches.

The Union Athletics Club founder sits down with Dominic for one of the most reflective conversations in the show'shistory. Julian opens up about coaching across cultures—helping Suguru Osako escape Japan's ekiden machine, swapping pep talks for pure logic with Germany's Koko Klosterhalfen, and why Shannon Rowbury remains the most impressive athlete he's ever coached.

He makes a case few pro coaches will: America's best coaches aren't in the NCAA or the pros—they're in high schools, and nearly every great athlete he's ever had was built by one. From there, the conversation becomes a masterclass in mindset: living the life of a champion; the “1% rule;”, why the “balance” the internet sells you is a lie; why women are routinely undertrained with kid gloves; and what separated Mo Farah and Galen Rupp from everyone else. Hint, it was never talent.

Then it gets personal. Being diagnosed with cancer at 28, one week before his first World Championships. Splitting from Nike and starting over. Rediscovering “idealistic Pete.” And an unflinching stretch on Alberto Salazar, grace, forgiveness, and why Shelby Houlihan shouldn't be racing in a sports bra from Target.

Whether you're a seven-minute miler or chasing medals, this one will change how you show up tomorrow.

Tap into the Pete Julian Special. 

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Trenton Sandler didn't care about running until his senior year of high school. Now, he's a 3:42 1500m man with 130,000 followers watching every step.

The Arkansas transfer joins Dominic the day before his move to Fayetteville for a conversation about one of the strangest paths in the NCAA. A lifelong soccer player who only ran track to stay in shape, Trenton parlayed a 1:55 time in the 800m into an SEC roster spot, spent two years buried in injuries, then watched his LSU distance group collapse from 12 guys to three. 

He left the team in February, coached himself through the spring, and ran his 3:42 PR—at Arkansas, of all places.

They get into the recruiting visit that sold him on the spot, the ACC program that essentially would have banned him from posting, and his brutally honest answer to "Olympic medal or a million followers?" 

Plus, pressure as a trainable skill, why "it's cringe until it works," the reason he doesn't answer the "is my mile time good?" DMs, his 2028 Olympic Trials math, and the plan to pivot hard into entertainment once the spikes hang up.

Also discussed: the Ryan Trahan era he completely missed, his running-creator Mount Rushmore, Erin Brown's rage-bait genius, the jorts discourse, and the Mexican breakfast restaurant where a soccer kid learned Spanish and raked in $35 an hour.

Whether you're a modest recruit with big goals or building something people call cringe, Trenton's story is proof that consistency (and betting on yourself) compounds.

Tap into the Trenton Sandler Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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YouTube: trenton Sandler YouTube Channel.

Instagram: TrentonSandler

TikTok: Trenton Sandler

You don't replace Mike Smith. You carry forward what he built, and Jarred Cornfield is proving that's exactly how dynasties survive.

Entering year two as NAU's Director of Cross Country and Track & Field, Cornfield returns to the podcast as another Flagstaff fall arrives. He opens up about the transition from nine years as Smith's assistant—resisting the urge to prove himself, leaning on his mentor (still in town, still a phone call away), and practicing the same pressure-management he preaches to his athletes.

The conversation digs into the anatomy of the dynasty: six national titles in seven years, why every single one was the hardest thing ever, and whether today's NCAA will ever allow another NAU dynasty.

Cornfield pulls back the curtain on the tactical side, too: watching a decade of DMR film with his men before their indoor title run; scouting rival coaches' tendencies; and building course-specific training, this time for Terre Haute, where this fall's championships return for the first time since the frigid 2019 race.

Other threads in this conversation: what he actually does differently from Smith; sub-threshold staples in Buffalo Park; the student-athlete question at a school nicknamed running university; exhibiting character when nobody's watching; and his candid, nuanced take on the NCAA scrapping altitude conversions, which is a change that hits Flagstaff harder than anywhere. Plus, a celebration of Colin Sahlman's historic DMR–indoor 3K–outdoor 800 triple, and the theme of 2026's first team meeting: encouragement.

Bring on Terre Haute. Bring on the rain.

Tap into the Coach Cornfield Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Dr. Bill Evans admits the post was rage bait. But the science underneath it isn't.

Dominic opens by asking about Evans' claim that you can run faster with low testosterone, and Evans cheerfully cops to baiting the testosterone crowd before laying out the actual evidence. 

Two things can be true at once: train hard for years and your T drops, and your performance keeps climbing anyway. He walks through Anthony Hackney's overtraining research, the 80-kilometer-per-week marker where androgen deficiency starts showing up, and the diffusion-distance argument for why the best marathoners in the world aren't carrying much muscle. 

Then the necessary caveat: performance and health are not the same conversation, and bone, libido, and mental health all sit on the other side of that ledger.

From there it opens up. 

Evans gives a full explainer on how a study actually gets published and how to tell a credible one from a headline, including where pharma funding does and doesn't compromise the work. He and Dominic get into whether anyone can be an Olympian, whether mindset is trainable (Evans uses his own OCD and exposure therapy as the case study), and the Joe Burrow story about a nine-year-old who didn't feel pressure.

The back half is rapid-fire practical: how to warm up for a 5K and why the pickups should be near mile pace, why your treadmill is probably lying to you, the RPE scale as a free lactate meter, the bicarb lotion study he's running this fall, his unsponsored supplement stack, and the one thing every cross country runner should do this season.

Tap into the Dr. Bill Evans Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

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-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Instagram: @doctor_evans_running 

Coaching Website:The Endurance Lab. 

Ashley Bastron just had the best year of her coaching career. Then she quit, and she's never felt more at peace.

In this episode, Dominic sits down with the former Wake Forest Associate Head Coach who guided the Demon Deacon women to their first NCAA Cross Country Championships since 2006, coached three All-Americans and two ACC champions in 2026, and then announced in July that she was stepping away to become a full-time clinical mental health counselor. 

Her reason cuts deep: in an NCAA increasingly built around money and results, she couldn't be everything her athletes needed her to be.

What follows is one of the most important conversations we've had on this podcast. Bastron pulls back the curtain on the eating disorder epidemic hiding in plain sight in our sport: how student-athletes are two-to-three times more likely to develop one; how roughly 85 percent of female NCAA athletes admit to some form of disordered eating; and how eating disorders carry the second-highest mortality rate of any mental health disorder, behind only opioid use. 

She explains why "disciplined" eating is often a red flag, why losing your period is never normal, why male body dysmorphia is rising in silence, and how "amygdala hijacking" keeps today's athletes stuck in fight-or-flight.

But this isn't a goodbye. Bastron is still coaching post-collegiates (including Wake Forest legend Elizabeth Whaley), still mentoring young female coaches, and now fighting for athletes from the other side of the table. Her hoped-for legacy says it all: never give up on a kid.

Tap into the Ashley Bastron Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

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Six weeks ago, Nate Mountain’s championship dreams died on the last lap of the NCAA final. 

Turns out they were just getting started.

The newly-minted U.S. steeplechase champion joins Dominic to unpack the wildest six-week swing in the sport: a ninth-place “mental implosion” at NCAAs, followed by a full reset in Charlottesville (fewer workouts, more coffee walks and pick-up 21 against a fifty-year-old street baller), and a nothing-to-lose dive across the line at Icahn Stadium to win his first national title by 0.07 seconds.

Nate takes us inside those final meters: the stumble on the last barrier, the running-in-a-dream legs, and why he refused to celebrate until his name hit the scoreboard.

From there, the conversation digs into his roots as a St. Xavier kid from Cincinnati who never dreamed of going pro—because kids from Cincinnati don’t go pro; his new chapter with HOKA and what the brand is quietly building; and five years under the legendary Vin Lananna, whose retirement Nate learned about one hour before the rest of the world. 

Plus, golf-cart workouts, the finish-line tape Vin wouldn’t let him live down, living with Gary Martin (and getting mistaken for him at Indoor Nationals), the state of American steeplechasing on the road to 2028, and why an Olympic medal is the dream. He closes his season at the Silesia Diamond League on August 23. 

Just a kid from Ohio, doing big things.

Tap into the Nate Mountain Special. 

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Brandon Miller is done being overlooked. 

The Brooks Beast is riding the hottest streak in American 800m running: four straight wins, including a takedown of world indoor champion Cooper Lutkenhaus at the Prefontaine Classic, and a 1:42.19 stunner over Olympic champion Emmanuel Wanyonyi in London that made him the fifth-fastest American in history. 

In this conversation, Dominic and Brandon dig into the season that turned a former prodigy (nine AAU national titles and maybe the most-watched kid in FloTrack history) into the man of the moment.

Brandon opens up about the loss that lit the fire: walking off the track in tears after taking fifth at last year's USA championships, then hiding from social media for a month because he couldn't escape the highlights. He explains how coach Danny Mackey took that loss just as hard, why he runs only 30-35 miles a week, and how watching Josh Kerr call his shot on the mile world record (then deliver it minutes after Brandon's London win) raised the bar for the entire Brooks Beasts group.

There's also the origin story you probably don't know: Brandon nearly signed with Nike out of college before a teammate's advice (and his parents' due diligence) steered him to Brooks. Plus, they chat about the finger-over-the-lips celebration at Pre, why nobody on the start line cares that Cooper Lutkenhaus is 17, an impassioned defense of Noah Lyles as track's great entertainer, and his pitch for a Netflix documentary on the golden age of American 800m running before LA 2028.

Tap into the Brandon Miller Special. 

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Eric Avila quit racing, but he didn’t quit the sport altogether.

The 2021 USATF Road Mile champion spent eight years with Adidas before walking away in 2024. This included a torn plantar fascia, a contract offer attached to a marathon move he didn't want, and a competitive fire that quietly fizzled out. What surprised him wasn't missing the racing. It was losing the structure that had organized every morning of his adult life.

Now he runs a sports group out of Southern California, and he's direct with Dominic about how the money actually works. They talk about why you have to be roughly top ten in your event before anyone pays you, why high school NIL deals are a separate marketing bubble most athletes are built to age out of, and why the scholarship (not the shoe deal) is the realistic prize for nearly every kid. He also guesses at Josh Kerr's world-record bonus and weighs whether the sport will ever shed its contract NDAs.

The back half is a coaching clinic.

Avila builds training backwards from racing, argues most high schoolers show up with exactly one pitch, and caps his senior boys near 45–50 miles a week while loading the quality inside it. He walks through the traffic-light plan he gives athletes mid-race, what he taught a young Hobbs Kessler about leaning into pain, and why he'd rather an athlete learn to win than learn to time trial.

Underneath all of it is one idea borrowed from European soccer: a real academy pipeline, built here, for runners.

Tap into the Eric Avila Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Fitness is rented, never owned. But the rent is far cheaper than most runners think.

Alex Ostberg returns for the monthly breakdown of The Rundown, and this month's four editions split neatly into two halves: what actually happens when you stop training, and how to think clearly about training in the first place.

Alex opens with the principle of reversibility and the psychology that distorts it—losses loom roughly twice as large as equivalent gains, which is why a two-week break triggers panic wildly out of proportion to the physiology. He walks through the Dallas Bedrest Study, then the Coyle detraining data showing a two-phase drop: an early fall driven almost entirely by plasma volume contraction, followed by a slower mitochondrial enzyme decline. The reassuring part is what survives: capillaries, ventricular volume, and mitochondria themselves are structural and stubborn. You don't fall from the top floor to the basement —you fall to the mezzanine.

Then the case for doing it on purpose. Alex mandates enforced breaks for his athletes, argues that reduced training cuts losses roughly in half versus doing nothing, and shares Jerry Schumacher's balloon metaphor for why regaining fitness is easier the second time.

The back half turns to coaching itself: confirmation bias; autobiographical coaching, the observe-hypothesize-measure-update loop; and why writing your hypothesis down before you test anything is the whole ballgame. Alex closes with the mistakes he's made, including his own biased-reporter problem with athlete pain.

Read The Rundown: free, every Thursday. Link in the show notes.

Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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There are no names on the back of an Air Force jersey, and that's exactly the point. 

While the rest of college running chases NIL money, transfer portals, and eighth-year seniors, Ryan Cole is quietly building a national contender out of American kids who signed up for something bigger than themselves.

In today's conversation, Dominic sits down with the Director of Track & Field and Cross Country at the U.S. Air Force Academy, where every one of 4,000 cadets is on full scholarship, the campus sits at 7,000 feet, and your first day of college involves getting yelled at off a bus at basic training. 

Coach Cole explains his core philosophy and how the Academy's structure turns overlooked recruits into stars—like Ryan Johnson, who arrived with a 9:20 two-mile PR and left drawing comparisons to Grant Fisher and Sam Gilman, the latter of whom he now shares workouts with.

The two dig into the recruiting cues that separate a great athlete from a great cadet-athlete, the historic 2016 women's team that became the first service academy squad to qualify for a D1 NCAA Championship, and the emotional story of taking over the program after the sudden passing of his mentor, the legendary Ralph Lindeman. 

Plus, the beloved alumni tradition at Nuttycombe, why runners make great officers, and Cole's case that the service academies may be the last true development programs left in the NCAA.

This one's about culture, commitment, and the name on the front.

Tap into the Coach Ryan Cole Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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You can register for the program directly through the official Shannon Thompson MPC Focus Session Series Page 

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Your ego isn't the enemy — it's just a bodyguard using outdated tactics.

Shannon Thompson, MAPP, NCCP, is back for another edition of one of the podcast's longest-running traditions. The mental performance coach behind NAU's championship program (and the second-ever guest in show history) returns to break down the 16-page thesis she recently delivered at a coaching clinic, condensed into one conversation packed with tools you can use this cross-country season.

Shannon unpacks what it means to "connect with the heart of the race,” and the three requirements to get there: a sense of belonging, a sense of irreplaceability, and an orientation toward giving rather than getting. From there, the conversation goes deep on the two stories every athlete lives through sport: the egoic story (work hard, achieve goals, repeat with higher goals) and the hero's journey—the narrative that begins when hard work stops guaranteeing results and you enter what Shannon calls "the wilderness."

Along the way, they discuss why ego is never bad, just unhelpful; how parts theory (IFS) gets to the root of race-day anxiety, checking out mid-race, and mysterious pre-race nausea; the fear underneath it all;; a Scottie Scheffler-inspired debate on caring about outcomes without being owned by them; and a five-minute exercise you can use before your next race.

Tap into the Shannon Thompson Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Trevor Giampa doesn't call himself the best hybrid athlete — he says there's no such competition. He just refuses to accept the idea that chasing a goal in the gym has to cost him a goal on the course.

In this episode of The Running Effect Podcast, Dominic sits down with Trevor to unpack six years of all-out hybrid training and the results that have people convinced he must be cheating: a 2:28 Boston Marathon and a 315-pound bench in the same week, treadmill marathons followed by 15+ reps at 225, and 100-mile weeks paired with powerlifter-style strength work.

Trevor makes the case that "hybrid athlete = mediocre at both" is a myth, that antagonistic goals aren't really antagonistic if you build for them, and that your genetics improve the harder and longer you work. He's done it all as a natural athlete who has never had a sip of coffee, a drink of alcohol, or a single PED — and he explains why the constant doping accusations only fuel his mission to show people what a natural body is capable of.

They also get into his diet (max protein, max carbs, ground beef and rice, venison, kiwis for vitamin C), his recovery philosophy (build a bigger capacity, skip the gadgets), his gym split, the caffeine debate, his move into ultras, and how his Catholic faith became the center of his content and his goals.

Jacob Cohen has run a 5K in a dog crate, a port-a-potty, and on top of the Empire State Building–-and no, he is not stopping anytime soon.

Before he was the internet's favorite 5K guy, Cohen was an investment banker in Atlanta, overweight and grinding through a banking job while his content dream sat on the back burner. 

Running, however, changed everything.

It helped him lose more than 40 pounds, and a run club of full-time creators convinced him to hit record. He posted for a year to 2,000 followers before a joke 5K around his coffee table in October 2025 lit the fuse: it led to 100,000 followers in 50 days and a full-blown escalation of the most absurd run locations imaginable.

In this conversation with Dominic, Cohen pulls back the curtain on the videos everyone's friends keep sending them. He addresses the skeptics head-on (yes, he really does the 5Ks; the watch accuracy is another story), reveals his most physically miserable run location, and explains why the World Cup crowd was in on the bit.

He also opens up about the deeper mission: rejecting the unattainable, chicken-and-rice version of fitness the internet sold him at his lowest, and proving working out can actually be fun.

Plus, his surprisingly generous take on David Goggins, celebrity collabs with Diplo, Bert Kreischer, Teddy Swims, and Casey Neistat, his dream Great Wall of China 5K, and why the biggest what-if of his life was simply pressing record.

Tap into the Jacob Cohen Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Parker Wolfe was the 43rd man on a 42-man Olympic list. Now, he's making the case for rookie of the year in professional running.

Dominic sits down with the Swoosh TC Flagstaff star to unpack a debut season that reads like a highlight reel: a USATF cross country title on a muddy Portland course, top American honors at World XC in Tallahassee, a first sub-13 indoor 5K, a 12:49.45 Diamond League debut in Oslo, and a front-running Prefontaine Classic two-mile win over Grant Fisher.

Parker opens up about going from top dog at UNC to "the new kid on the block" as a pro, why the professional peak is the hardest one to climb, and how he nearly committed to Duke before Chapel Hill won him over. 

He breaks down the transition from Chris Miltenberg to Mike Smith—more mileage, double thresholds, and a Flagstaff training group so deep he never lacks a partner, from Ethan Strand and Nico Young to the occasional Galen Rupp appearance. 

He makes his case that full buy-in beats a perfect program, walks through the Mo Farah-inspired tactics behind his gutsy front-running win at Hayward, and lands on the lesson at the heart of it all: people overestimate what they can do in a season and underestimate what they can do in a couple years of consistency.

Plus, decoding Nike's confusingly structured Swoosh TC, Parker's five-runner Netflix docuseries cast, Nuggets loyalty, and the Lil Wayne deposition tape Coach Smith screened before Cross Nationals.

Tap into the Parker Wolfe Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S 

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Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau was fishing alone at the top of Nevada Falls at the age of 10, and has been finding ways to move faster through the mountains ever since. 

The Stanford-trained distance runner turned professional trail and mountain specialist joins Dominic to talk about a two-year injury saga that has redefined how he thinks about training, resilience, and what it actually means to compete. 

After a catastrophic fall at the 2024 Broken Arrow Skyrace left him with a complex orthopedic injury, Meikael spent 18 months trying every non-surgical approach available before going under the knife at the end of 2025. In February, he was relearning to walk. In April, relearning to run. He came back and toed the line at the 2026 U.S. Uphill Championships and finished 7th overall.

The conversation covers what it looks like to maintain professional-level fitness off of 20 to 30 miles a week (and two hours of daily elliptical and arm bike work); why vertical kilometer races are physiologically closer to an 800 meter than a 10k; and how growing up entirely outdoors in the Bay Area (fishing, climbing, running trails to make curfew) built the athletic foundation that track never could. 

Meikael also gets into the plant business he started in middle school, the summers he spent living out of his car in the Sierra Nevada, and why he thinks cross-country skiers would beat marathoners in a trail race every time.

His message to anyone trail-curious: DM him. He means it.

Tap into the Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau Special. 

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S H O W  N O T E S   

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He bet his uncle he could beat him in a race, and that was the start of everything.

Handal Roban grew up in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines playing cricket before a single track meet at age fifteen changed his trajectory.

When the cricket team pushed him out, he didn't look back. Instead, he chased the guys who beat him—literally moving to Jamaica to train at Jamaica College High School, one of the most decorated prep programs in the Caribbean. 

That decision, he says, taught him how to navigate being the underdog, how to thrive in discomfort, and how to carry the weight of a new culture in silence when no one could understand a word he said.

At Penn State, Roban has quietly built one of the most decorated careers in school history: two Big Ten Freshman of the Year awards; multiple All-American honors; a trip to the Paris Olympics at 21 years of age; and a 1:42.87 at the 2025 NACAC Championships that left him thinking the clock was broken. That time made him the second-fastest 800m runner in NCAA history. He still can't fully believe it.

But what defines Roban isn't the resume, it's the philosophy underneath it. 

Stop chasing times. Find your mantra. Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Don't respect your competitors so much that you forget to race them. And when the butterflies show up before the gun, don't fight them, channel them.

With one year of eligibility remaining and an NCAA title still on his list, Roban isn't close to done.

Tap into the Handal Roban Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

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Will Garinger can't explain how Run with Christ became so popular—and that might be the point.

Less than two years after a group of 20-year-olds gathered in a Columbus park in September 2024, Run with Christ spans more than 85 cities across seven nations and three continents. 

Its founder never ran competitively. 

Garinger was a goalkeeper—an All-American who left for a Phoenix soccer academy at 16, jumped into life insurance sales at 18, and landed a Division I roster spot at UNC Greensboro. Every rung up the ladder looked right and felt empty. Behind the résumé was a kid cycling through addiction, shame, and Sunday-morning resets, hiding from everyone—including his own father.

The turning point came one week after the run club launched. On September 14, 2024, a stranger prayed over Garinger, asked about his relationship with his dad, and named things nobody could have known. Garinger fell apart, confessed twenty years of hiding, and walked out a different man.

In this conversation, Garinger and Dominic dig into why the most connected generation in history is the loneliest, why discipline and human connection are the only currencies you can't fake in the AI era, and why your worth never changes based on what you produce. 

Garinger shares the question he asks everyone searching for purpose: What makes you angry when you look at the world? 

Whatever you believe, this one is about getting outside yourself.

Tap into the Will Garinger Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

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Nobody hands you anything in the Bowerman Mile—not even on your first day.

Two days after his professional debut at the Prefontaine Classic, Gary Martin joined the show to break down a lifetime-best 3:48.76 in the deepest mile field ever assembled, and why he walked away wishing he'd been more aggressive. 

The newest Brooks Beast member takes us inside the shock of going out in 1:53 after a college season of tactical racing, lining up against Ethan Strand again, and what it felt like to finally pull the Brooks singlet out of the bag after two years as one of the brand's first NIL athletes.  

Gary is refreshingly honest about the season behind him: falling short of the NCAA 1500 title against Simeon Birnbaum, the frustration of watching a new contender rise every time he reached the top, and the mindset that carried him through it. 

He explains what drew him to Danny Mackey and Seattle, why Josh Kerr's discipline in the margins inspires him, and lays out the ladder for his pro career—make teams, make finals, then fight for medals.

Plus, they get into the PA sub-4 pipeline he started, Vin Lananna's pencil-sharpening analogy, the habits that kept him healthy for four straight years, his advice for every high schooler dreaming of going pro (be patient, be present), and a dream 4x-mile squad featuring Kerr, Cam Myers, and Jakob Ingebrigtsen—with Gary leading off, naturally.

This is a chat with one of the sport's brightest young stars, at the very beginning of the climb.

Tap into the Gary Martin Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

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-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

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Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20 

Instagram: (@gary.martin20). 

Reese Sanders ran a 57.3 and realized she wasn't done.

Coming off her final season at Notre Dame, Sanders—a four-time Indiana state champion and one of the top 400m hurdlers in Fighting Irish history—was closer to walking away from the sport than sticking with it long term. What changed wasn't a grand plan. It was momentum: a fast race at ACCs, another personal best at regionals, and a quiet afternoon running unattached at a meet in Duke where it finally felt like she was running for herself.

That shift changed everything. In this episode, Reese walks Dominic through the last 30 to 90 days that rerouted her entire post-college trajectory. From near-retirement, to staying in South Bend as an assistant coach under Coach Rodney Zurich—all while training toward the 2028 U.S. Olympic Trials.

She talks about what it actually took to believe she could keep getting better: journaling with God before races, learning to check out from track in order to get better at it, and finally letting go of the pressure she put on herself the moment she stepped on campus as a recruit.

The conversation covers her athletic family roots, growing up watching siblings Olivia and Luke run state, building a social media following of 62,000 from her dorm room, co-hosting the Golden Ticket Podcast, and what it felt like to get recognized by a Nebraska thrower at a random track meet. She's self-aware, wide open, and genuinely funny—and she's just getting started.

The road to 2028 has commenced. Follow along.

Tap into the Reese Sanders Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W N O T E S

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

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Instagram: @reese.e.sanders

TikTok: @reese.e.sanders

X: @reese_saa

Doug Soles just walked away from the most dominant program in the country, and he's not done building.

The two-time NXN champion coach joins Dominic to reflect on 26 years of head coaching and his recent decision to step down at Herriman High School. Soles opens up about the toll of 12-hour days, his choice to leave teaching first, and why he's leaving his next move "wide open" rather than rushing into another job. 

He traces his evolution from a rookie coach in the desert heat of Palm Springs with just three athletes to building two national powerhouses, crediting the shift from copying others to developing his own philosophy as the real turning point.

Much of the conversation centers on buy-in: how Soles convinces five-flat milers they're capable of greatness, why travel to big meets reframes how kids see the sport, and how he handles excuses, transfers, and kids who are "half in, half out." He's candid about losses that still haunt him, the 2009 state title he let slip away, and the lessons that shaped everything after. 

Soles also discusses coaching Jackson Spencer through an undefeated season and why he believes in earning success rather than handing out participation trophies.

He closes with reflections on handling critics, the importance of fit over title, and passing the Herriman program to his successor, Josh Bugel, on his own terms. 

A thoughtful, occasionally funny, and deeply earned conversation with one of the most accomplished coaches in American distance running history.

Tap into the Coach Doug Soles Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: 

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Official Website: CoachSoles.com

X: @DougSoles

Instagram: @dougsoles

He gave everything for his country, came home without his legs, and then completed 110 miles anyway.

Mike Egan is a Marine combat veteran who lost both legs to an IED in Afghanistan. In this conversation, he sits down with Dominic to talk about the G1M Go One More Backyard Ultra in Texas, where he completed 27 loops (110-plus miles in a wheelchair over 27 straight hours) finishing 27th in a field of able-bodied athletes. When heavy rain turned loop 27's course into thick mud and locked his wheels, Egan climbed out of the chair and crawled, dragging it behind him. He barely blinked.

But the race is almost a footnote. What Mike actually delivers in this hour is a masterclass in how to think about suffering. He talks about the year he didn't leave his house, the slow crawl back out of isolation, and the realization that endurance sport wasn't about fitness—it was the first thing that forced him to face what he'd been packing down for years. He talks about repurposing pain, the discipline of not breaking promises with yourself, and why he never asks "what if," he just does. He also pushes back hard on one thing: don't compare your hardships to his. Your suffering is your own. How you respond to it is all that matters.

This is one of the most direct, no-fluff conversations about identity and resilience TRE has ever produced.

Tap into the Mike Egan Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W N O T E S

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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Instagram: @mike_egan88

TikTok: @mike_egan88

Jane Hedengren doesn't do freshman years quietly. 

Coming off a breakout debut season at BYU, the Nike-sponsored phenom joins Dominic ahead of the Prefontaine Classic to reflect on a year that redefined her expectations of herself.

Hedengren opens up about the whirlwind of transitioning from decorated high schooler to collegiate standout, describing her freshman year as less about the records and wins and more about the growth, the team bonds, and the hard-earned lessons that came with it.

She talks through her simplified shoe rotation, what it's really like working alongside Nike's product teams, and how the "less is more" training philosophy from her Nike Elite days still affect how she approaches her buildup. She also opens up about periodizing a season that won't peak until November, the value of resting and reconnecting with family this summer, and how she's staying grounded as her siblings chase their own running success.

The conversation turns reflective as Jane considers her long-term legacy in the sport, weighing the pull between cross country's singular, winner-take-all drama and the technical precision of track. Asked to choose between breaking four minutes in the mile or fourteen minutes in the 5K as the sport's next historic barrier, she doesn't hesitate to share her pick, while acknowledging both feel closer than ever. 

Through it all, Jane's answers land with a maturity beyond her years, a steady reminder that she's chasing greatness one present moment at a time.

Tap into the Jane Hedengren Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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Instagram: @janehedengren

Mike Scannell doesn't believe in mileage—he believes in how you run it. 

Back on the show for another appearance, the architect of Grant Fisher's Olympic campaign sits down with Dominic to talk about something every serious runner faces and most get wrong: the summer training block. 

Scannell makes the case that the six weeks in the dead heat of summer are the truest measure of who an athlete is going to become. When the training gets long, boring, and hot, most kids quit. The ones who don't are the ones worth coaching.

The conversation moves from training philosophy into the psychology of competition. Scannell breaks down how he handles disappointment with athletes and why he refuses to let any kid internalize a bad race as a reflection of who they are. He talks about goal-setting with the same directness: limit them to three or four; share them only with people qualified to help you reach them; and let your daily actions do the announcing. 

He also goes after the mileage obsession head-on. Most kids are addicted to a number on Strava instead of the quality of the miles that produced it. Scannell has seen it at every level, and his prescription is simple: rest, hydration, and mild but honest training—in that order. The summer doesn't need to be heroic. It needs to be consistent.

Sharp, direct, and full of the practical coaching wisdom that's made him one of the most respected voices in American distance running.

Tap into the Coach Mike Scannell Special.  

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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The boys are back, and nobody came to talk about running.  

Dominic welcomes Scotty, Danny, and Chris from the Life in Stride podcast for their fourth appearance on TRE, and within minutes the conversation has already covered protein powder side effects, dry needling in uncomfortable places, and Dom's near-date with one of the most famous athletes on the planet.

Before things go completely off the rails, Dom shares the story behind his role as a strategic advisor for Attuned—a bioenergetics company whose health scanning technology helped his sister recover from over a decade of chronic illness. 

From there the group runs through their list of overhyped running products, with Dom going on record as a full Ketone IQ skeptic, and the guys trading takes on cold plunges, Normatec boots, and Firefly devices.

The rapid-fire segment produces some of the episode's best moments, including a spontaneous revelation about his DM history with Olympic snowboarder and cultural phenomenon Eileen Gu, in addition to a detailed accounting of what Dom would actually cook for you if you showed up hungry at his door tonight. 

The episode closes with a lively argument about whether Dom's brother's daily mileage challenge is more impressive than running a 2:34 marathon, the crew announcing plans for a live podcast marathon, and all four sharing genuine closing words about making the most of your days before the summer slips away.

Tap into the Life in Stride Special.  

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

Attuned 20% off: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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Instagram: @lifeinstridepodcast 

YouTube: Life In Stride

The NCAA isn't broken: it's been bought, and Coach Chris Miltenberg is one of the last ones willing to say so out loud.

Miltenberg returns to the show fresh off an NCAA Championships in Eugene where the women's 5,000 and men's 10,000 runners were swept nearly clean by international athletes funneled in through university-funded recruiting services. 

He called it what it is: a paradigm shift, driven by two forces—an age gap that routinely pits 18-year-old Americans against 26- and 27-year-olds, and a recruiting model that has traded relationship-building for transactional delivery. 

What separates Coach Milt from the noise is that he's not talking about this from the outside—UNC was largely absent from the results in Eugene, too, and he said so plainly. But he's not wringing his hands either. He's choosing to double down: develop elite American talent the long way, backed by institutional alignment and a recruiting pipeline that he and his assistant have quietly rebuilt around the next wave of domestic standouts. 

He also addressed what this moment means for the American high schooler with D1 dreams —the 4:10 miler, who, five years ago would have been a priority recruit and today might not crack a Power Five roster. His advice was blunt: go where you matter. Find the coach who's invested in your development, not your opening time.

Coach Milt also touched on Michaela Page's continued rise, the Penn relay rivalry, Simeon Birnbaum's 1500 in Eugene, and what it feels like every June to watch another senior class walk out the door. 

Tap into the Coach Milt Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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Instagram: @chris.miltenberg

Running a 1:57 doesn't happen by accident. And for Hayley Kitching, it almost didn't happen at all.

A year ago, the Penn State senior was in Austin nursing plantar fasciitis while watching the sport move without her. Hayley is here to unpack the full arc: the injury, the comeback, and the NCAA Outdoor final at Hayward Field where she ran the second-fastest 800 meters in collegiate history—and still finished second. 

Hayley and Dominic go deep on what actually drove the jump from 2:20 in high school to 1:57 on the biggest stage. Her answer isn't a secret workout or a revolutionary training block. It's consistency—a Monday steady run and showing up even when the motivation isn't there.

She also opens up about the nutritional wake-up call that changed her freshman year, her three-day-a-week lifting program that includes a leg circuit she calls "leg day on crack," and the afternoon nap that she considers non-negotiable.

The conversation gets equally honest about the mental side: the confidence she's carried since her junior days in Coffs Harbour; how she thinks about the difference between confidence and pride; and why she'd tell her younger self to get off Instagram and stop comparing results. She also reflects on the NCAA Indoor fall in March, what it felt like to sprint the fastest final lap of the day and still not make the final, and why she came out of Eugene happy despite leaving without the win.

Hayley is heading pro. This episode is the perfect send-off.

Tap into the Hayley Kitching Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

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NEW MERCH OUT TODAY 5PM EST: https://luminarythreads.shop

Five NCAA titles. One backwards hat. Zero apologies.

Habtom Samuel is not a guy who talks much—he lets the track do it. The University of New Mexico junior just capped a historic 2025–2026 season by sweeping the 5,000 and 10,000 meters at the NCAA Outdoor Championships in Eugene, becoming the most decorated athlete in Lobos history. 

In this episode, Dominic sits down with Habtom the week after the titles to find out what it actually feels like.

The conversation covers the full arc: growing up in Eritrea, the culture shock of arriving in Albuquerque with no family nearby, and the quiet determination that carried him through a sophomore year of four runner-up finishes. 

Habtom opens up about that 2025 NCAA Cross Country final—the one where he lost his shoe midway through the race, kept charging, and still nearly caught Graham Blanks. He talks through the indoor DQ, the decision to work on his kick, and the precise moment in the outdoor 5,000m final where he knew it was time to move on Marco Langan.

There is also real warmth here. 

Habtom talks about what it means to train alongside Josh Kerr, what the Hoka NIL deal has meant for his family back home, and why he refuses to let anything (a lost shoe, a disqualification, a trash-talk headline) pull his focus from what he can control. 

He is not a guy chasing a legacy. He is a guy who shows up, works, and lets the results speak. They have been speaking pretty loudly lately.

Tap into the Habtom Samuel Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: Habtom Samuel (@habtom_samuel_). 

🔗 Shop drop one (early-access password: TRE): https://luminarythreads.shop

Dominic goes solo to launch LuminaryThreads — a merch brand three years in the making, built on a simple idea: you pass roughly a thousand people a day, and what you wear is the one way to reach them. 

Every month, one drop. One short statement meant to inspire, challenge, or move whoever reads it. When it's gone, it's gone for good.

Drop one is the motto that started it all: Turn Your What-Ifs Into Realities.

Only 50 shirts exist. Dom breaks down why he waited three years, why he's taking a loss on the first drop, and what "impact over profit" actually means to him.

🔗 Shop drop one (early-access password: TRE): https://luminarythreads.shop

📷 LuminaryThreads on Instagram: @luminarythreadsmerch

NEW MERCH OUT ON MONDAY: https://luminarythreads.shop

Alex Ostberg doesn't waste your time—and this month's Rundown recap is proof. 

Dominic and Alex break down four newsletters that build on each other in ways that feel almost inevitable by the end: a framework for how elite programs fall apart, how coaches know when to pull the plug, and how summer heat can either wreck your confidence or become your secret weapon.

The first piece, "Stop Optimizing Things That Shouldn't Exist," starts with a pattern Alex sees repeatedly when collegiate athletes go pro: the blank slate they've been waiting for becomes a trap. More practitioners, more supplements, more inputs—and performance drops.

Someone has to own the whole system, not just be a piece in it. He calls it the difference between vertical and horizontal integration, and he believes coaches who act as master integrators (filtering what reaches the athlete) will always outperform those who don't. From there, Dominic and Alex get into "The Case for Quitting a Workout Early," a piece Alex traces back to his first day at the Bowerman Track Club, stopwatch in hand, with no script for when things went sideways. 

The final two newsletters take on summer heat as a pair. "The Heat Tax" lays out the physiology—why humidity is the real enemy; why the brain throttles the legs before the legs even know what's happening. "The Heat Adaptation Playbook" closes with the practical protocol: post-exercise sauna, effort-based training targets, and the mindset shift that turns miserable summer miles into a fall advantage. 

Same principles as the workout piece, Alex notes—protect the descent.

Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

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-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

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From 1:54 and zero Division I offers to sixth at NCAAs in 1:45, Niko Schultz didn't sneak up on anybody, he just refused to stop showing up.

This year, in his first campaign at Penn State, he finished sixth at the NCAA Outdoor Championships and earned First-Team All-American honors. 

That arc doesn't happen by accident. 

Niko sits down with Dominic to unpack everything behind that leap: the decision to enter the transfer portal as a guy most coaches didn't want; the culture shock of arriving at Penn State and not winning a single training rep for three months straight; and what it felt like to be working server shifts after practice just to cover rent. 

Coach Ryan Foster's philosophy comes up early–-how he treats athletes like professionals; doesn’t micromanage the warm-up; and builds an environment where the training group does the coaching.

The conversation goes well beyond the track. Niko is candid about what drove him to start posting: a stress fracture freshman year and a high school coach asking what he was worth outside of running. He sat through two years of getting roasted in the comments before anything clicked. 

Now he's building toward a million followers with the same intentionality he brings to dropping time on the track, and he sees the two pursuits as feeding each other.

He also explains why he switched his international allegiance from the U.S. to Puerto Rico and what the road to the 2028 Olympics looks like from where he's standing.

Tap into the Niko Schultz Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @nikoschultzzz 

TikTok: @nikojschultz 

YouTube: Niko Schultz

Ashley Jones competed for six years in Division I distance running with one arm—and she insists that was never the point. If all running taught her was how to go faster in a race, she missed everything.

Fresh off a trip marking ten years since the ATV accident that took her right arm at 14 (three months after losing her father), Ashley joins Dominic to discuss her farewell to college running. 

Across three programs in six years–from High Point's humble grind; to Tennessee's private jets; to a homecoming at Colorado–-she lived what she calls three different lives. She walks us through each chapter: the mistakes and identity-building at High Point; the leap of faith and breakout performances at Tennessee; and a final injury-riddled Colorado season she nearly walked away from over the winter before deciding to finish the race.

Along the way she gets candid about the parts of her story most people never ask about: why she has never covered her arm or worn a prosthetic; what it costs to share the most vulnerable thing about yourself with strangers; why she stopped training on Sundays in one of the most competitive environments in sport; and why victim mentality, in her words, robs people of life and opportunity. 

She challenges an NCAA team culture fading toward semi-pro. She tells rising freshmen to build community fast and advocate for themselves. And she hints at what comes next: writing, speaking, an email list, and saying yes to crazy adventures—because running was the vessel, never the destination.

Tap into the Ashley Jones Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: 

https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @ashley_carolinej

While his rivals stack hundred-mile months, senior Carter Smith has built one of the fastest high school seasons in America on simplicity, sleep, and a kick nobody saw coming. 

Fresh off the wildest stretch of his life—a 3:59.00 mile at the HOKA Festival of Miles; then a 1:48 win in the Brooks PR 800m days later in Seattle—Smith sits down with Dominic to explain how a kid from small-town Pennsylvania got here in barely two years of real training. 

Carter didn't run cross country until his junior year, when he won a state title after being told it was impossible. As a freshman, he was a 54-second quarter-miler while logging ten miles a week and staying up until 3 a.m. grinding Fortnite. By sophomore year, running twenty miles a week, he split 4:07 at New Balance—and the big schools came calling.

Smith breaks down the training that defies convention: thirty-mile weeks; six 200s the Tuesday before his sub-four; bodyweight strength work; chicken-rice-and-broccoli dinners; and eight or nine hours of sleep—because what you do outside the running, he argues, matters most.

He talks about chasing the Pennsylvania sub-four-mile lineage of Gary Martin and Drew Griffith. He gets into the 800m state record that is in his sights when he races Josh Hoey on July 9, and why anything short of aiming for Olympic goldisn't worth lacing up for.

When talent works hard, he says, crazy things happen. This episode is the proof.

Tap into the Carter Smith Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Carter’s Instagram: @carterj_smith 

Edwin Martin didn't start running to become an ultra-athlete—he started because life had gotten so dark he almost didn't start anything again at all.

At 21, Martin hit rock bottom. Consumed by a gambling addiction and drowning in purposelessness, he was on his bathroom floor, ready to end his life, when a text from a friend (just three words: I love you) pulled him back. That moment became the foundation for everything that followed. He has since lost two close friends to suicide, and the grief and guilt that came with those losses sharpened his mission—use running to make sure people know they are seen, loved, and not alone.

In this episode, Edwin walks Dominic through the full arc: from a COVID-canceled marathon run on a trail; to a full-distance Ironman with a partially torn Achilles; to 30 consecutive half marathons in August 2024; to a 2:50 marathon finish in early 2025; and ultimately, Project 24:70–the 24-hour treadmill run covering 133 miles to honor the 70 lives lost to suicide in Charleston County. He also breaks down the Stoney 100 (403 laps around a track) and what the monotony of that format does to the mind.

Beyond the miles, Edwin and Dominic dig into identity, faith, men's mental health, the danger of making sport your God, and why Edwin believes the three worst words anyone can say are: I got this. 

His platform is growing fast, and his answer for why is simple: he never built it for himself.

Tap into the Ironsned Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: 

https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Find Edwin on all platforms at @ironsned.

She ran 1:57 in an Olympic final as an afterthought—then walked away, rebuilt everything, and came back faster.  

Alex Bell isn't just reinventing herself; she's finally becoming who she was supposed to be.

In this conversation, Alex takes Dominic through one of British running's most unlikely second acts. She opens about the moment she crossed the finish line in Tokyo and knew (lying on her back; a million feelings at once) that she would never run 1:57 again. 

She talks honestly about the mental health toll of years spent as an unfunded elite, working police shifts and retail while competing at Diamond League level–and why she needed to step away from the sport entirely before she could fall back in love with it. 

Now, under coach Andrew Henderson at Leeds Beckett, she's averaging 85 miles a week (double what she ran at the peak of her 800m career) and her body has never felt better. 

She breaks down the training shift in real terms: double threshold days, long canal runs with 20-plus athletes on Sunday mornings, and the kind of joy she says she never once felt standing on a track start line. She describes pacing the 2026 TCS London Marathon, watching the world record fall from the inside, and coming home the next day to hand in her notice. 

The marathon debut is coming in February. LA 2028 is the dream. And she is, by her own admission, just getting started.

Tap into the Alex Bell Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @alexbell1992 

Logan, Queensland, doesn't typically produce global empires. Jason Daniel didn't get that particular memo.

The founder and CEO of LSKD built a self-funded, $400M global activewear brand from a BMX nickname, a carpenter's apprenticeship, and five years stuck at $3 million in annual revenue—and he did it without a single outside investor. What broke the plateau wasn't a strategy. It was books, a self-development course called Landmark Forum, and the birth of his son Hendrix six months before he scrapped everything and rebranded.

In this conversation, Jason talks about what the plateau actually feels like from the inside—the canceled orders, the weeks he couldn't pay himself, the quiet question of whether he'd have to go back to the job site. He talks about why he trademarked "1% better every day," how a mission that started as an internal team value became the spine of a 700-person company operating across three countries, and what it actually takes to scale a culture without hollowing it out. 

He also gets into his own running journey: from a sub-1:30 half marathon that nearly broke him, to chasing a sub-three-hour full—and why he believes the grind of distance running and the grind of building a brand are teaching him the same thing.

Some brands sell a lifestyle. LSKD built one first.

Tap into the Jason Daniel Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @jasondaniel_

Website: lskd.co

She grew up running miles to school through the hills of Burnt Forest, Kenya—and now she owns the streets of Boston.

Sharon Lokedi, two-time Boston Marathon champion and one of the most quietly dominant forces in the sport, joins the show for a wide-open conversation about what it actually takes to run 2:17 twice, back-to-back, on the most unforgiving major marathon course in the world.

Sharon doesn't carry herself like someone who knows she's going to win. She carries herself like someone who has decided, at the start line, to simply see what happens. That mindset—grounded, process-driven, almost stubbornly present—runs through everything she shared in this episode.

She talks about how Heartbreak Hill still hurts every single year; why the pre-race pressure has only grown harder to manage with each title; and how she leans on meditation, music, and the psychology of staying present to quiet the voice in her head that tells her she isn't ready.

She opened up about the real weight of elite marathon training—the 120-to-130-mile peak weeks; the relentless repetition; the sacrifice of ordinary life—and what it feels like to pour three months of work into two hours on race day, not knowing if it will land.

She reflects on Paris 2024, finishing fourth by four seconds, and what that near-miss lit inside her. And she talks about where she's headed next: a different major marathon on the horizon, and an Olympic medal that remains the one thing still unchecked.

Tap into the Sharon Lokedi Special.

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SHOW NOTES

Instagram: @shazrine

Simeon Birnbaum, the NCAA 1500m record holder, is heading into NCAAs hungry, healthy, and ready to hurt people. 

Dominic sits down with the Oregon junior days before the outdoor National Championships, where Birnbaum is eyeing a 1500m/5000m double on his home track in Eugene.

The guys cover the full arc of his breakthrough season: from the December 3000m that broke Edward Cheserek's Oregon school record; to the Big Ten indoor sweep; to a 3:31.69 at the Oregon Team Invitational that rewrote the collegiate record book by over a full second. 

Simeon breaks down the workout that tipped off head coach Jerry Schumacher that something special was coming; why he still refuses to train in super shoes; and what it felt like to watch the DMR fall apart at indoor nationals before channeling that fury into a runner-up finish in the 3000m the following day.

The conversation gets into the strategic chess match of championship 1500m racing; the physical toll of the 1500/5000m double at regionals in brutal humidity; and what it means to finally arrive on the national stage as the favorite rather than the chaser. Simeon also reflects on the Penn Relays DMR redemption, his rivalry with Diadora teammate Marco Langon, and a 1:44 800m PR he ran more or less for fun. 

With NCAAs at Hayward Field, he's not hiding the goal: walk away with two titles in front of the home crowd.

Tap into the Simeon Birnbaum Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

The clock has beaten Brian Burns twice. June 4th at the HOKA Festival of Miles, he plans to return the favor. 

Burns, a senior at Bentonville High School and committed to UNC Chapel Hill, joins the show eight days out from Festival of Miles—fresh off a ladder workout that confirmed what his coaches have been telling him all spring: he is in 3:57 shape. The gap between where he is and where he needs to be is not fitness, it's a finish line.

The episode traces the full arc of how Burns got here. Growing up in Missouri, watching his older brother Connor run 3:50 at Festival of Miles as a junior. A DNF at the Midwest XC regionals that humbled him and quietly redirected him. 

The mid-year transfer to Bentonville and what it meant to walk into a program run by Coach Mike Power, a former Olympian who has since become one of his most important influences alongside his father, Marc, who coaches the University of Arkansas women's cross country program.

Underneath all of it runs one goal: becoming the first pair of brothers in high school history to both break four minutes in the mile. Connor did it in 2023 at this exact meet. Brian was there. He watched their dad sprint toward the finish line and followed without really knowing why. This time, he knows exactly why.

Last year at the Festival, Burns finished last in 4:10. This year, things feel different.

Tap into the Brian Burns Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @brianburnsy_ 

Austin Plewe ran a 1:49 at altitude and never trained faster than two-mile pace to do it. 

The American Fork senior joins the show ahead of his Festival of Miles 800m debut to explain exactly how that's possible—and why his roughest year ended up being the thing that made him.

Plewe is a product of one of the most consistent programs in the country. Coach Timo Mostert has been running the same aerobic-first philosophy at American Fork for over two decades, and it has produced Clayton Young, Danny Simmons, Casey Klinger, and now Plewe. No 800-specific sessions. No reps faster than mile pace. The speed is just there, evidenced by a sub-49 400 leg he threw down at the state 4x400 a few weeks ago.

What makes this conversation worth listening to is how honest Plewe is about what it cost him to get here. His senior cross-country season came apart at the seams—a stress fracture, an emergency appendectomy two weeks before statemeet, then an illness before NXR. 

He didn't have one good race all fall. What got him through was perspective, teammates, and a faith that the other side of that stretch had something better waiting. It did, in the form of a Simplot Games title, a US number-one ranking in the 800, and a fifth straight Arcadia 4x1600 title for the Cavemen.

Now he's in St. Louis targeting 1:47, maybe 1:46—and he's already got a post-race alligator po'boy locked in if it goes his way.

Tap into the Austin Plewe Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @austin_plewe 

Josh Blatchford couldn’t stand long enough to brush his teeth—and he was a personal trainer.

After years of chronic illness nobody could diagnose, Josh hit rock bottom in 2020. He was bedridden, losing function on the left side of his body, and spending $30,000 a year on care that kept symptoms at bay for maybe six months before they came back harder. He had a two-year-old daughter he couldn’t lift. His mother-in-law found something called bioenergetic testing on a Facebook forum.

Fourteen months after his first round of remedies, Josh ran the Columbus Half Marathon. He signed up to prove to himself he’d actually healed. He didn’t let himself believe it until he turned the corner toward the finish line.

Now Josh is the founder and CEO of Attuned, the company he built around the technology that gave him his life back. On this episode, recorded in person in Columbus, Josh and Dominic get into how bioenergetic scanning works (hair and saliva samples; 60-plus years of science; and why it can flag a stress fracture weeks before symptoms appear), what separates the Endurance Scan from wearable data, how Dominic’s own scan caught his adrenal issues and flagged his achilles before he mentioned either, and why Josh won’t recommend a blanket supplement stack to anyone—even after taking 52 a day at his sickest. 

One of the most honest and unusual founder stories to come through the TRE universe.

Tap into the Josh Blatchford Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @joshuablatch 

Website: attuned.health

Mario Fraioli has coached hundreds of athletes and written over half a million words about running—and his most important lesson is to do less. 

He is the founder of The Morning Shakeout, a weekly newsletter read by tens of thousands of runners since 2015, a longtime running coach, and a Masters competitor still toeing the line himself with a 4:09 mile to his name. 

Two days after the 2026 Boston Marathon, Mario sat down with Dominic to break down what he witnessed, what the sport is getting wrong, and what keeps him coming back every single year.

In this conversation, Mario makes the case for his "Go One Less" philosophy and why the athletes most motivated to push are the ones most likely to break—a lesson he learned the hard way through stress fractures and disordered eating. 

He shares what it was like training alongside some of the best runners in the country and being stunned by how slow their easy days were. And he talks about what curiosity (not ambition) has driven everything he's built, from his first newsletter issue sent to 200 people to the coaching business he never planned to have.

Take the pursuit seriously. Don't take yourself too seriously. And just get started.

Tap into the Mario Fraioli Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @mariofraioli 

The Morning Shakeout Newsletter: https://themorningshakeout.substack.com/

Website: https://mariofraioli.com/

Braelyn Combe listed five girls she expected to contend with at Festival of Miles. Chiara Dailey's name wasn't one of them.

That detail sits right at the center of this conversation: not as a grudge, but as fuel. Chiara has been one of the best prep distance runners in the country for four straight years: three consecutive California state cross country titles, a sub-4:40 mile PR, four straight national qualifications. She'll be the first to tell you she hasn't had that race yet. The one that changes the conversation. June 4th is where she's been pointing all spring.

This episode goes inside what that actually looks like. She talks about working this season with Eric Avila (a former professional runner and longtime family friend) who shifted the texture of her training: more threshold, consistent lifting,a real focus on form she'd quietly been embarrassed about for three years.

She describes her hardest workout of the spring, why she doesn't learn her sessions until after her warmup, and how she's been training her kick at every smaller meet in the postseason—going out in 32 and closing in 31.

She also goes deep on what winning actually means to her. Her moonshot goal for FOM is sub-4:30 (nine seconds faster than her current PR) and she explains, calmly and without hesitation, why she'd rather win in 4:40 than run 4:29 and finish second. She signs off with a direct message to Braelyn: "I'll see you in Fresno and I'll see you in St. Louis."

She's been around. She's done being overlooked.

Tap into the Chiara Dailey Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @chiaradailey 

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

The myths runners live by are surprisingly hard to kill. Alex Ostberg is back with Dominic to dismantle four more of them.

First up: the soft surface myth. Alex explains how the brain anticipates soft terrain and stiffens the legs before foot strike, largely canceling out whatever cushioning the ground provides.

The real injury variable isn't surface, it's pace. Slowing from a 7:40 to a 10:44 mile can cut tibial stress injury risk by over 50%. Variability across surfaces beats avoidance of any one of them.

From there, the conversation moves into the "8 Questions" edition and a broader critique of optimization culture. Only about 10 to 15 percent of runners, Alex argues, should even be thinking about supplements, sleep protocols, or anabolic windows. The rest need to nail the basics first. 

The injury comeback piece brings the most personal material. Alex draws on his own two-year loop of reinjury at Stanford and UNC to argue that healing and readiness are not the same thing. Pain-free is a starting point, not a finish line.

Two rules stand above the rest: invest fully in the protection phase, and pass a stimulus twice before progressing it.

The episode closes on London 2026 and the fueling science behind the first sub-two. Sawe averaged 115 grams of carbohydrate per hour—a number that would have been considered reckless a decade ago. Alex breaks down the carbolution (dual-source transport, hydrogel delivery, gut training) and asks the question the finish line footage raised: have we eliminated the bonk?

Tap into the Alex Ostberg Rundown Recap Special.

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S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Jess McClain went from anonymous to American course record holder in about two years. She'll tell you that it’s not actually that simple.

The 2024 Olympic Trials were the moment the running world met Jess when she finished fourth in Orlando, out of nowhere—or so the story went.

In this episode, she explains what that looked like from the inside: going in without expectations, with her husband Connor by her side, determined to be the person at the start line who was having the most fun. She'd been running at a high level since she was 12; the crowd just hadn't been paying attention.

What followed (a Brooks contract renegotiated entirely without an agent; a 2:20:49 at Boston; a fifth-place finish with enough left in the tank to run down the woman in front of her on Boylston) was the product of four years of uninterrupted health, a weekly appointment with a bodywork therapist named George, and a training partnership with coach David Roche built on collaboration and gear-change work. 

She describes going from 5:18 pace to 4:56 at mile 16 of a long run like it's the most natural thing in the world.

She also gets honest about what the early pro years actually cost her—financially, physically, and mentally—and why being able to support herself outside of running completely changed her relationship to racing. 

Eat enough, occasionally eat too much, but never eat too little—that's the philosophy. She's running the best marathons of her life on it.

Two years out from LA and she's not rushing anything.

Tap into the Jess McClain Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @jesstonn 

Website: ⁠bicarb.shop 

Riley Witt doesn't think you need talent to break four minutes in the mile—he just thinks you need to want it bad enough to spend $35.

The Northwest Missouri State senior came on to break down the philosophy behind that take, and what followed was one of the more honest conversations about athletic ambition, economic reality, and the compounding edge of doing everything right. 

Witt grew up in a class of 36 students in Osage, Iowa, ran a 4:40 mile his freshman year of high school, and genuinely believed that was fast. 

He didn't have the training partners, the competition, or the context to know otherwise. What he had was an Exercise Science background, an obsessive attention to marginal gains, and a willingness to do things differently.

That's where Bicarb comes in. Witt launched Bicarb 3.0 out of necessity (he wanted a sodium bicarbonate product that actually worked without the GI catastrophe), and built it into a business from his dorm room after going from a 4:11 mile to a 4:03 in two weeks on his first homebrew version.

He walks Dominic through the science of how bicarbonate buffers hydrogen ions at the cellular level, why the longer distances are starting to adopt it, and what his proprietary kinetic gradient matrix technology does differently than anything else on the market.

Underneath all of it is a runner who just ran 1:48 at the MIAA Outdoor Championships, holds a 4.0 GPA, and has one box left to check: a Division II national title. He's currently ranked second in the country in the 800m. 

The clock is ticking.

Tap into the Riley Witt Special.

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Mark Dowdle ran 306.6 miles in 73 hours, drove 20 hours home, picked up a puppy, and was back umpiring youth baseball the next week. 

That's either the most unhinged post-race recovery plan in endurance sports history, or it's the most honest thing anyone's said about who he actually is.

This is the conversation Dominic was saving for after the race—and it delivered on the hype. Mark walks through the G1M Ultra from the inside: the moment on the first night at 2 or 3 a.m. where he made the irreversible decision not to quit; the loop where he noticed Kim and Harvey were off their timing and knew what was coming; and the final miles walking with Kendall as both men quietly sensed the race was ending. 

The 13-second lap finish wasn't a dramatic sprint—it was two men who'd been through three days of mud and rain and dark deciding, together, to keep going one more time.

What makes this conversation different from a typical winner's debrief is what Mark keeps returning to: the idea that who you are at a youth baseball game is exactly who you are at mile 290. His sister-in-law Lily's voice was in his earbuds pulling him through the low loops.

The internal battle between wanting the race to end and wanting to see how far two people can actually go together. And the realization, standing upright after 73 hours, that he didn't have to perform for anyone.

He also quietly drops that he's now officially a BPN athlete. The chapter he'd title What It Looks Like to Walk in Faith is just getting started.

Tap into the Mark Dowdle Special.

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Luke Hopkins doesn't separate who he is from what he does—and that almost broke him.

When a stress fracture pulled him off the training schedule he'd built his identity around, Hopkins had to face a question most high achievers never stop long enough to ask: what's left when the sport is gone? 

In this episode, the guys dive into the psychology of performance: the difference between being intentional and being consumed; why the hardest workers are often the most emotionally repressed; and what therapy, faith, and a neuroscience degree have taught him about the person underneath the athlete.

Hopkins traces his relentless work ethic back to a single moment at age 12, when a family accident forced him to decide what kind of person he was going to be. That decision made him exceptional. It also cost him things he's still learning to name. 

He talks honestly about tying worth to output, the fragility of building an identity on strangers' approval, and why his brands not dropping him during the injury was one of the most clarifying moments of his career.

The conversation covers hybrid training, what four-plus hours of daily training actually feels like, and the neuroscience behind why your brain is the limiting factor in any race—not your legs.

But the episode's real weight is in the quieter moments: pride, fear, and what Hopkins would tell his 12-year-old self if he had the chance.

Tap into the Luke Hopkins Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it. If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

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Alan Webb still has the record. Twenty-four years later, nobody's touched it. 

The American high school mile record (3:53.43, set at the 2001 Prefontaine Classic) has outlasted every shoe revolution, every bicarb protocol, and every perfectly concocted running shoe PR storm. In this conversation, Webb sits down with Dominic to talk about why that mark still stands, what it actually felt like to run it, and what the sport's fastest generation of teenagers is still missing.

Webb is disarmingly honest about his own race. 

Going into Pre that day, he wasn't chasing Ryun's record—he was chasing a decimal-second PR over 3:59. He was, in his words, playing with house money. The result was a 55-flat last lap with gas still in the tank, a closing kick he nearly stumbled into because he didn't realize how far ahead of his goal he was. That psychological accident, he argues, is exactly what most high school milers can't replicate on command.

The conversation moves from race mechanics to coaching philosophy to the weight room sins of his own career—including a period where Webb, by his own admission, went full Arnold Schwarzenegger while training for the mile. He's candid about what he got wrong, what Coach Raczko got right, and how much of that South Lakes framework he's carried directly into his program at Ave Maria University.

And somewhere in the middle of all of it, Webb lands on the thing that seems to have kept him in the sport long after the records and the contracts and the Nike deals: running, he says, teaches virtue. 

That's not nothing.

Tap into the Alan Webb Special.

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He ran 63 miles on a broken stomach, launched a product the same week, and called it a good weekend.

Zach Pogrob is back—and this time, the conversation goes deeper than any race result. 

A month before the BPN G1M Ultra, he posted a photo at 220 pounds and admitted he had no business toeing the line. He showed up anyway, ran until his GI system shut down at mile 50, kept going on fumes, and walked away with a finish that looked like a DNF: but felt, to him, like proof. 

That's the through-line of this entire episode: what it means to show up when the conditions aren't right, whether you'reentering a backyard ultra or building a startup with three people and no marketing budget.

Zach breaks down the obsession economy behind ShareAura, a running app already hitting all-time weekly users with zero paid acquisition, and he demos the new Aura Run Cam live: a camera-first tracker designed to make sharing your run as easy as taking a photo. 

He also gets into what running 10 miles before sunrise every morning can do to a life that's lost its direction, what it actually takes to compete with Strava, why the running industry suffers from fixed-mindset thinking, and why the best companies (like the best athletes) are almost always built by outsiders.

Zach Pogrob is here and he’s not holding back.

Tap into the Zach Pogrob Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it. If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

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She threw up before every race. Now she's the fourth-fastest high school miler in American history.

Ellery Lincoln is a Nike Elite junior from Lincoln High School in Portland, and her 4:30.00 at the 2026 Nike/Jesuit Twilight Relays didn't arrive as a surprise so much as an inevitability—the product of two years’ worth of illness, setback, and a mantra she and her mom built together: consistency over perfection.

In this episode, she and Dominic go deep on the story behind the fast times: the whooping cough that derailed her cross country season; the pneumonia that hit the day she landed in New York for Nike Indoor Nationals; and what it actually looks like to rebuild not just fitness but trust in a body that keeps letting you down. 

She also talks about committing to the University of Oregon (where Shalane Flannagan coaches and where her connection to Jerry Schumacher runs deeper than almost anyone's) and why she chose Eugene even though staying in-state wasn'talways the plan. 

She breaks down the pre-race anxiety that once had her vomiting before every race and how she worked through it; what it means to sit #4 all-time as a junior; and why her sightline is already past the high school record book and onto a professional career.

The HOKA Festival of Miles is June 4th in St. Louis. She'll be there. So will Braelyn Combe, her best friend and the closest thing the high school mile has to a genuine rival right now. She's predicting sub-4:30 for the winner. For herself, she said 4:27.4.

Tap into the Ellery Lincoln Special.

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Trevor Painter doesn't coach world record holders by accident—he builds them, one hard session at a time.

Painter is the architect behind Keely Hodgkinson's indoor world record and Georgia Hunter Bell's World Indoor 1500m gold, and in this conversation, he pulls back the curtain on exactly how M11 Track Club operates. 

He opens with what makes Keely truly special: not just her talent, but her composure, her work rate, and the almost unsettling ease with which she handles pressure. From there, the conversation moves into the unlikely origin story of one of the sport’s most successful coaching partnerships: how a semi-pro rugby league player turned 400m runner ended up building the most decorated middle-distance group in the world alongside his wife, Jenny Meadows.

Painter gets specific on the training philosophy that separates M11 from the rest: high intensity, low mileage, and lactate numbers that have left their own physiologist scratching her head. He explains why cross-training is baked into the system for nearly every athlete in the group; why Sunday is a sacred rest day even for the best in the world; and why he believes practice should always be harder than the race. 

He also addresses the outdoor world record directly—what he thinks it will take, when he thinks it can happen, and why he called 1:53.28 untouchable when he first signed with Nike.

This one is for every athlete who thinks shortcuts are an option. 

They aren't.

Tap into the Trevor Painter Special.

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Jonny Davies ran 119 miles on a Texas ranch, vomited up half a bottle of water, and still had to be talked out of going back for one more lap.

Fresh off his second BPN Go One More Last Man Standing Ultra (and 17 more miles than the year before), Jonny sits down with Dominic to unpack what really happens when the race strips everything away.

He gets into the brutal physics of surviving Texas heat at 105°F as a 6'4", 220 pound guy from the UK, the moment his crew drew the red line and pulled him from the race, and the stat that stopped him cold before his first G1M: 80% of people who quit a backyard ultra quit in the chair, not on the course. 

He wasn't going to be one of them.

But this conversation moves well beyond race day. 

Jonny traces the philosophy that carried him through a devastating breakup right after Run the Capitals—his 596 mile, 11-day run through every UK and Ireland capital—and explains how the same stubbornness that kept him moving on broken feet is the thing he now leans on in ordinary life. 

His dad's voice from the rugby pitch cuts through every dark moment: you can't play rugby on the floor. His work with CALM, the UK suicide prevention charity, gives everything else its weight. And when Dominic asks who he's trying to become, Jonny's answer is disarmingly simple: 

just better than yesterday, every day, no destination required.

Tap into the Jonny Davies Special.

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He ran 3:58 off early-season training, and he's not done yet.

Jackson Spencer sat down with Dominic just days after becoming one of roughly 32 high schoolers in American history to break four minutes in the mile, and the conversation is exactly what you'd hope from a kid with this kind of season: honest, grounded, and full of detail that never shows up in a results column.

He walks through Arcadia blow by blow—targeting sub-8:30, counting splits through the mile, then letting the race take over—only to flash back to Brooks XC in the final 100 meters when Marcelo Mantecon nearly caught him again. 

He talks about what running a national-record 8:31 off early-season fitness means for the eight weeks still ahead, and why Coach Soles has to hype him up before races because Jackson keeps trying to stay humble.

The upcoming HOKA Festival of Miles gets its own chapter: Jackson and Quentin Nauman are both confirmed, and Jackson has one request going in: a 1:57 first 800m. He thinks sub-3:54 and a shot at Alan Webb's high school record are possible if the pacing is honest, and he's willing to commit to that on record.

He also gets into the daily doubles, the beet root powder ritual on race day, averaging 60 miles per week through track season, and what staying consistent has done for him beyond the times—including what he actually wants to be remembered for when this is all over.

Tap into the Jackson Spencer Special.

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Vinny Mauri was working the floor at a running shoe store in Ohio. Then he ran 2:05:54 and became the fastest American marathon debutant in history.

Nobody was watching. That's not hyperbole.  

While the running world was fixated on Sabastian Sawe's sub-two-hour performance in London, a 25-year-old from Warren, Ohio quietly dismantled the record books at the Glass City Marathon in Toledo—running solo, without a sponsor, without a pacer, and without anyone outside his circle knowing what was coming. 

Vinny Mauri's 2:05:54 didn't just break Ryan Hall's American debut record of 2:08:24. It shattered it by nearly three minutes.

Dominic sat down with Vinny just two days after the race; before the contracts, before the headlines fully caught up, before the moment had time to calcify into legend. What you get is the raw version: how Vinny built this alone in Ohio, grinding 5:40 and 5:50 pace every day, ripping 20- and 22-mile long runs at five-minute pace with no team, no coach, and no fanfare. 

A former Arizona State and Notre Dame runner with a 13:34 5K under his belt and a moderately successful collegiate résumé, Vinny never announced himself as a marathon talent. He just trained, showed up in Toledo, won by fifteen minutes, and then talked about what comes next.

This is the conversation that happens before everything changes. Share it with one person who needs to believe in what's still possible.

Tap into the Vinny Mauri Special.

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Charles Hicks ran 2:04:35 at Boston in his second marathon. His coach was watching from Eugene, trying not to lose his mind. 

Alex Ostberg and Charles Hicks were Stanford teammates for exactly one year: Ostberg a fifth-year senior, Hicks a freshman who wasn't even first on the depth chart in his incoming class. Five years later, they're coach and athlete inside Nike's Swoosh Track Club, and they just executed one of the most stunning American marathon performances in history.

In this conversation, they pull back the curtain on the full arc: the Cherry Blossom 10-Miler that first convinced Jerry Schumacher the marathon was Charles's calling; the abbreviated eight-week build into New York that exceeded everyone's expectations; and the 16-week Boston block where Charles never dipped below 105 miles in a single week. 

They talk about what it actually means to train under Schumacher—workouts revealed 10 minutes before, plans built in two-week cycles, and a phone call every night at 9:30 PM—and why Ostberg's role is less about designing sessions and more about being a steady hand when the experiencing self and the remembering self stop agreeing. 

Charles also explains the text he sent Ostberg after a disappointing half marathon in Atlanta that became the quiet thesis of the entire Boston build: I will navigate my failure points more effectively than my competition. 

Affirm the past. Appreciate the present. Inject ambition into the future.

Tap into the Charles Hicks and Alex Ostberg Special.

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He won Olympic gold in 2016, more with his brain, not his legs—and the running world never forgot it. 

Matthew Centrowitz Jr., the only American man to win Olympic 1,500m gold since Mel Sheppard in 1908, sits down with The Running Effect for a wide-open conversation about what it took to become the most decorated American miler of his generation.

From his 2011 NCAA title at Oregon to three World Championship medals, five national outdoor crowns, and that unforgettable Rio final—Centro built a decade-long résumé that no American middle-distance runner has touched. His 3:30.40 PR at Monaco still stands as the benchmark. His tactical IQ was something no training plan could manufacture.

This is a conversation about how you build a career like that—the coaching systems, the rivals, the near-misses, and the one race that made it all permanent. 

From Alberto Salazar's Oregon Project to the Bowerman Track Club under Jerry Schumacher, Centro navigated the highest-pressure environments in American distance running and came out the other side with gold.

We want to know what it actually felt like to sit in a field of the world's best 1,500m runners and know—before the bell—that you had already won. And how a decade of that kind of focus shapes a man long after the spikes come off.

The legend of Centro, here at The Running Effect.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it. 

If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

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