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The Whole Marketer podcast

The Whole Marketer podcast

Abigail Dixon

Welcome to The Whole Marketer podcast, where we look at the holistic skills that marketers of today need to grow the brands and businesses of tomorrow, whilst ensuring marketers feel supported and empowered to have successful and fulfilling careers and lives as a whole. Hosted by Abby Dixon along with her guest experts and marketing leaders, every fortnight they discuss a key skill impacting marketers and the profession today; from technical skills, latest thinking and soft skills, to leadership and personal understanding so that you can thrive in today's challenging yet rewarding profession. For more information visit www.thewholemarketer.com

246 - Creator Marketing: How to Work With Creators for Long-Term Growth
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  • 246 - Creator Marketing: How to Work With Creators for Long-Term Growth

    Episode 173 with guest Becky Owen, Chief Marketing Officer at Billion Dollar Boy and Head of FiveTwoNine

    The technical skill in this episode is working with the creator economy – how brands move beyond adhoc influencer activity to working with creators as strategic partners who bring cultural relevance, audience insight and storytelling craft to brand building.

    Abby is joined by Becky Owen to discuss what the creator economy really is, why it delivers both short-term sales and long-term brand growth, how brands need to set up internally to move at the speed of culture, why creators should be briefed like marketing peers and the rise of out-of-category creator partnerships with examples. Plus the new 'creator instinct' research from 5,000 creator assets that challenges modern marketing wisdom.

    Becky Owen is Chief Marketing Officer at Billion Dollar Boy and Head of FiveTwoNine. As one of EMEA's leading experts in creator marketing, Becky has built a career with roles at Disney and Meta, and now as CMO at global creator-first social agency, Billion Dollar Boy. With over a decade of experience in the creator economy, she has advised some of the world's most recognisable brands, developing innovation strategies and directing teams in producing best-in-class work.

    In 2024 Becky founded FiveTwoNine, the agency's sister company: a global platform dedicated to empowering creators in their careers and businesses through community, insider knowledge, and exclusive events.

    She has been recognised on AdAge's Tech Power list and was named Gamechanger of the Year at the Influencer Marketing Awards. Becky is a sought-after industry commentator and regularly speaks at leading events, helping brands adopt a creator-first mindset.

    Key takeaways

    The creator economy is people, not a channel… Creator content is built on personal stories and community, and delivers short-term sales plus a long-term brand multiplier.

    Set yourself up to move at the speed of culture… Slow internal systems are the biggest barrier, Becky shares an example of how Lipton's 'Social Hubs' stay local and responsive within a global strategy.

    Be brave, give up a little control and measure it… Argos's 'Arg House' was a risk made safer by rigorous econometrics and won both most creative and most effective.

    Treat creators as peers and marketers… Share your KPIs and avoid generic briefs. New 'creator instinct' research found that front-loading the product pitch cut view rate by 44%.

    Look out of category to cut through… Partnerships like IKEA x Chupa Chups and Old Mout's craft creators bring fresh perspectives and memorability.

    00:00 - Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

    03:01 - Today's Big Juicy Question: What Is the Creator Economy?

    04:16 - From PewDiePie to Today: How the Creator Economy Has Evolved

    06:17 - Why Creators Aren't 'Just Another Channel'

    07:15 - From Brand Mentions to Authentic Storytelling

    08:50 - Why Marketers Should Embrace the Creator Economy

    11:26 - Short-Term Sales and the Long-Term Brand Multiplier

    12:44 - The Operational Barrier: Internal Systems and Fast Approvals

    14:35 - How Lipton's Social Hubs Respond to Culture Locally

    16:32 - Feeding Local Insight Back Into Brand Strategy

    17:39 - Where Should Marketers Start?

    18:38 - Argos and 'Arg House': Why Brands Need to Be Braver

    21:50 - Being Both Creative and Effective

    23:05 - Brand Marketers vs Creators: Bridging the Understanding Gap

    30:08 - Out-of-Category Creator Partnerships

    32:50 - The IKEA x Chupa Chups Meatball Lollipop

    35:18 - Out-of-Category in Action: Old Mout and Craft Creators

    37:45 - New Research: Creator Instinct

    40:52 - Becky's Predictions for the Creator Economy

    43:35 - Career Highs and Grows

    50:18 - Becky's Advice For Marketers of Tomorrow

    Resources

    Creator Instinct report https://www.billiondollarboy.com/news/creator-instinct-report

    https://www.billiondollarboy.com/

    https://www.fivetwonine.com/

    The Whole Marketer '7 steps to being a Whole Marketer leader' resource – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

    Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/becky-owen-0289a615/

    About The Whole Marketer

    The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

    Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

    Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

    Contact hello@thewholemarketer.com to get in touch with Abby and the team

    Tue, 03 Nov 2026 - 52min
  • 245 - Authentic Marketing in the Age of AI: How to Build Brand Trust with Human Insight

    Episode 172 with guest Visha Kudhail, author of Authentic Marketing

    The technical skill in this episode is authentic marketing - how we keep building a genuine emotional connection between our brands and consumers when we're living in an age of AI-generated content, and audiences are more sceptical than ever.

    Abby is joined by Visha Kudhail to discuss her new book, Authentic Marketing, including: why authenticity is an operating model that runs through the whole business rather than a social media tactic, why audience insight and 'time to think' are the foundations that rarely get celebrated, how to build trust proactively rather than reactively, why brand voice needs a point of view (not just a tone of voice deck), and why being honest about ROI and creating psychological safety builds a stronger effectiveness culture.

    Joining Abby is Visha Kudhail, an award-winning global marketing leader whose career spans Pinterest, Google, YouTube, Square, Channel 4 and Thinkbox. At Pinterest she built and led the EMEA Business Marketing function, and at Google and YouTube she created the UK industry brand trust function during the brand safety crisis. Visha won the top prize for Best Leader in Marketing at the 2022 Global Women in Marketing Awards, co-founded the Futures Network for Women in the UK, sits on the Executive Committee of Soho House and the Development Advisory Board for Somerset House, and chairs the DMA Media Council. She also created and hosted the podcast Behind the Face of Success.

    Key takeaways

    Authenticity is an operating model, not a tactic… It runs through product, message and leadership across every function, rather than chasing social trends.

    Give yourself time to think (and analyse)… Audience insight into the 'why' is the foundation, and AI can help but can't replace the rigour.

    Build trust proactively, not reactively… Visha builds a trust and reputation pillar into every marketing plan to reach the most sceptical audience yet.

    Brand voice needs a point of view… Go beyond a tone of voice deck with an ownable point of view and thoughtful transcreation for each market.

    Be honest about ROI and share the learnings… Building ROI to only push investment through erodes trust, so continue to report progress, share what didn't work and cascade learnings.

    00:00 - Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

    00:37 - Why Authenticity Matters in an Age of AI

    02:35 - Introducing Visha Kudhail

    02:57 - What Is Authentic Marketing?

    05:21 - Why Audience Insight Is the Backbone of Authenticity

    07:41 - Authenticity Is About Cultures and Communities, Not Chasing Trends

    10:06 - What's Stopping Us?

    12:34 - Going After the 'Why', Not Just the 'Who'

    14:58 - Why We Don't Celebrate the Thinking Behind the Work

    17:07 - Why Visha Wrote 'Authentic Marketing'

    19:30 - Falling Trust in the Internet, the News and AI

    24:17 - Building a Proactive Trust Pillar Into Your Marketing Plan

    27:30 - Bringing Your Brand Voice to Life in a Digital World

    28:54 - Point of View vs Opinion

    31:18 - Transcreation, Cultural Nuance and Using AI to Scale Locally

    33:39 - Getting Authenticity Out of the Creative Room and Across the Business

    36:07 - Where to Start: Narrative Threads and Planning Beyond Quarters

    38:35 - ROI, Data Storytelling and Reporting Progress

    41:00 - Why Fake ROI Doesn't Build Trust (and the Attribution Gap)

    43:24 - Psychological Safety to Share Learnings

    45:47 - Career Highs and Grows

    49:20 - Visha's Advice For Marketers of Tomorrow

    Resources

    Authentic Marketing by Visha Kudhail (Kogan Page) – order the book

    The Whole Marketer 'Define your ideal role' resource – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

    Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/visha-kudhail-16400830/

    About The Whole Marketer

    The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

    Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

    Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

    Contact hello@thewholemarketer.com to get in touch with Abby and the team

    Tue, 20 Oct 2026 - 51min
  • 244 - Helen Tupper Live: Feedback, Confidence Gremlins and the Skills Marketers Need to Keep Learning

    Episode 171 with guest Helen Tupper, Co-founder of Squiggly Careers

    We're kicking off Season 10 with an extra special live episode, as Abby is joined on stage by three-time Sunday Times bestselling author and her good friend Helen Tupper to dig into her latest book, Learn Like a Lobster, co-written with Sarah Ellis.

    Recorded live in front of an intimate audience at The Whole Marketer's 'Reflect and Connect' event in London, Helen and Abby unpack what it actually takes to keep learning and growing at work when time, confidence and headspace are all in short supply, including: how to build a "to-think list" that actually gets used, the three-step method for taming your "confidence gremlins", the 'WWWEBI' feedback tool for leaders to reduce fear in team learning and development.

    Joining Abby is Helen Tupper, Co-founder and CEO of Amazing If alongside Sarah Ellis, and Co-host of the Squiggly Careers podcast, which has had more than six million downloads. Helen is a three-time Sunday Times bestselling author, with The Squiggly Career, You Coach You and, most recently, Learn Like a Lobster. Helen and Sarah's TEDx talk, The Best Career Path Isn't Always a Straight Line, has been watched by over two million people, and in 2026 they were named among the top 10 most influential thinkers in HR. Helen is also a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review, is currently working on an executive PhD, and is a trustee for the Chartered Management Institute.

    Key takeaways

    The to-think list… We always find time to make a to-do list, but rarely time for a 'to-think' list, so Helen shares how she finds the time Taming your confidence gremlins… Helen's explains the three-step method to quieten the inner voice when you feel imposter syndrome creeping in WWWEBI: What Worked Well, Even Better If… Give this simple, low-formality feedback tool a try, that strips out fear and increases frequency to gather feedback for learning Connection over comfort… How to map your connection circles to learn outside your comfort zone - team, organisation, industry, and then beyond it - and go looking for a few go-to curious questions to ask people you don't already know. Leading is listening… Helen shares some of her own reflections on from writing this book and her advice for marketers of tomorrow

    00:00 - Welcome to The Whole Marketer Podcast

    00:37 - Kicking Off Season 10 with Helen Tupper

    02:42 - The Big Juicy Question: What Is Learning Like a Lobster?

    05:01 - Part One: Learning As You Go and the To-Think List

    07:23 - Why We Make Time to Do But Not to Think

    09:39 - The Post-it Note Method for Finding Time to Think

    12:05 - Front of Mind: Moving Into Learning in Hard Moments

    14:24 - Confidence Gremlins and the Biggest Learning Gap

    16:48 - Three Steps to Caging Your Confidence Gremlins

    19:05 - Where Limiting Beliefs Come From

    21:18 - Helen's Own Limiting Belief: The Pencil Skirt Story

    23:36 - WWWEBI: What Worked Well, Even Better If

    25:53 - Why Leaders Have to Go First on Feedback

    28:12 - Leading Your Own Learning Through Connection

    30:37 - What Helen Learned About Herself Writing This Book

    33:01 - Letting Go of Ego to Get the Book Done

    35:17 - Career Highs and Grows

    37:36 – Advice For Marketers Of Tomorrow

    Resources

    Learn Like a Lobster - order the book

    Squiggly Careers podcast

    The Whole Marketer 'Take the reins of your career' resource – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

    Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helentupper/

    About The Whole Marketer

    The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

    Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

    Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

    Contact hello@thewholemarketer.com to get in touch with Abby and the team.

    Tue, 06 Oct 2026 - 38min
  • 243 - How to Balance Brand vs Performance Marketing: Marketing Effectiveness and the ROI Data Behind the Ratio

    Episode 170 with guest James Hurman, Founder of Previously Unavailable and co-founder of Tracksuit, AF Drinks and Caffeine

    This week's technical marketing skill is another on marketing effectiveness as we believe it's a core capability gap we need to close as a profession, so that we can truly be the growth engine of the business and lead the long-term commercial agenda.

    Abby is joined by James Hurman to discuss why marketing leaders need to be investing in brand AND performance and avoiding the 'performance trap'. Plus the ROI data behind 60/40 split (Binet and Field's Long and Short of it) now being approximately 50/50 for maximum gains, building a measurement framework that actually connects to commercial outcomes, and the mindset shift senior marketers need to set themselves up for a successful tenure.

    Joining Abby is James Hurman, a New Zealand-based founder, entrepreneur, investor, author and leading voice on marketing and advertising effectiveness. He is Founder and Chair of Previously Unavailable and co-founder of Tracksuit, the brand tracking platform fast becoming a go-to among UK marketers, alongside AF Drinks and Caffeine. James is the author of The Case for Creativity and Future Demand, and consults to major organisations globally on marketing and advertising effectiveness.

    Key takeaways

    Beware the performance trap… We understand the pressure to show quick wins but short-term, visible results can mask an eroding baseline and a shrinking pool of future customers.

    The ROI evidence for a 50/50 split keeps stacking up… James discusses four separate data sets across three decades that indicate overall ROI is highest when spend is balanced between brand and performance.

    Build a measurement stack… James recommends tracking three levels: campaign metrics (is anyone noticing our advertising), interim metrics (is our brand growing in awareness, consideration and preference) and commercial metrics (sales, profit, market share). Most businesses have the top and bottom covered but are missing the brand dashboard in the middle.

    The power of knowledge… The confidence to make the case for the right investment and to hold your own with stakeholders comes from building your knowledge on effectiveness.

    Set your foundations early if you want to leave a legacy… Marketing leaders who do the right things for long-term brand building, even if it means a slower start, tend to look far better by the time they leave a role than those who chase quick wins.

    00:00 — Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

    02:38 — Today's Big Juicy Question: What Is Marketing Effectiveness?

    04:02 — Why Marketers Know What to Do but Don't Always Do It

    07:33 — The Skills Gap Behind Connecting KPIs, Allocation and Investment

    09:09 — Bringing Distributed Marketing Science Together

    11:49 — Why It's Fair for Stakeholders to Question Marketing Spend

    13:39 — Introducing the Performance Trap

    14:18 — What's Fuelling the Shift Towards Performance Marketing

    16:41 — The Hidden Cost of Leaning Too Hard Into Performance

    18:56 — Why CFOs Should Judge Marketing on Annualised ROI

    19:34 — Do You Want to Leave Your Job Looking Good or Not?

    22:56 — How the Best CMOs Set Their Foundations in the First 90 Days

    26:59 — Why Knowledge Builds Real Confidence

    28:36 — Knowledge, Humility and the Power of Asking Questions

    32:14 — Explaining Current Demand and Future Demand

    34:31 — Why Advertising Doesn't Directly Cause Sales

    36:50 — A Framework Marketers and Non-Marketers Can Both Understand

    39:51 — The Evidence Behind the 60/40 Rule

    42:38 — Four Data Points From 1992 to Today

    44:20 — Building a Measurement Framework That Reaches the Boardroom

    45:11 — The Three-Level Metric Stack: Campaign, Interim and Commercial

    47:11 — Why You Need a Brand Dashboard Alongside Your Performance Dashboard

    49:58 — James's Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

    Resources

    Future Demand by James Hurman

    The Case for Creativity by James Hurman

    Tracksuit

    Previously Unavailable

    The Whole Marketer 'Define your ideal role' resource – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

    Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/

    About The Whole Marketer

    The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

    Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

    Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

    Contact hello@thewholemarketer.com to get in touch with Abby and the team

    Tue, 18 Aug 2026 - 52min
  • 242 - How to Build a Marketing Team That Thinks Differently - and Doesn't Need You in the Room

    Episode 169 with guest Mark "Strings" Stringer, Founder and Chair of PrettyGreen

    Today's episode explores the leadership and human skills of building genuine diversity of thought within marketing teams and why it matters, including: why teams risk becoming clones of each other, recruiting for diverse thinking, your self-awareness as a leader to build the right teams around you, and why trust and psychological safety creates better work.

    Joining Abby is Mark Stringer, known to most as Strings, the entrepreneurial force and founder of agency PrettyGreen. With over 30 years of founding and leading successful ventures, Strings is a seasoned expert in building fame for brands and driving innovation. As founder and chair, he has helped the agency and its sister agency, The Producers, work with clients including Cadbury, Under Armour, LEGO, Audible, Hasbro and Nando's and more. Alongside this he runs PrettyGreen +Ventures, which incubates and acquires founder-led companies, and is co-founder and non-exec CMO of B Corp SkootEco and Metropolitan Spirits

    Key takeaways

    Diversity of thought is about difference, not just demographics… The value of diverse thinking comes from surrounding yourself with people who think, decide and approach problems differently to you as well as different lived experiences

    Know your own strengths, then build around them… Strings shares the parts of the job he loves and the parts he's happy to hand over, and how deliberately bringing in people who are strong where he isn't, has been core to building his teams

    Trust is what lets leaders let go… Strings' mantra of needing to "get out of the room" only works because he trusts the people he hands the baton to, both to deliver and to tell him honestly when something is going wrong

    Psychological safety turns diversity into better work… Recruiting different thinkers only pays off if people feel safe enough to challenge ideas, call out bias and speak up in the room

    Building diverse teams takes deliberate action, not good intentions… Strings is candid that believing in "hiring the best people" wasn't enough until PrettyGreen looked honestly at who was actually in the room and set up a dedicated board to force the change through

    00:00 — Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

    00:36 — Why Diversity of Thought Matters in Marketing Teams

    02:55 — Introducing Mark "Strings" Stringer

    05:21 — The Big Juicy Question: What Is Diversity of Thought?

    07:43 — Finding People Who Love What You Don't

    10:01 — Discovering DISC Profiles and Understanding Difference

    12:27 — Founding PrettyGreen and Building the Right Partnerships

    14:50 — The Impact of Bringing Complementary People Into the Team

    17:01 — Learning to Trust and Get Out of the Room

    19:21 — Matching Skills and Zone of Genius to the Work

    21:41 — Uncovering Hidden Talent Across Departments

    24:04 — Why Representation in the Room Matters

    26:23 — Confronting the Agency's Own Diversity Gap

    28:35 — Advice for Leaders Starting to Build Diverse Teams

    30:54 — Knowing Your Superpower and Building Complementary Teams

    33:22 — Handling Conflict With Humility and Vulnerability

    35:44 — The Shadow and Light of Leadership

    38:04 — Surrounding Yourself With People Who Call You Out

    40:27 — Career Highs: Celebrating the Team's Work

    42:30 — Career Grows: Getting Through the Hard Times

    44:48 — Strings' Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

    Resources

    The Whole Marketer 'Define your authentic leadership style' workbook – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    The Whole Marketer seven-step leadership assessment – free download

    https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

    Guest: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/strings

    About The Whole Marketer

    The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

    Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

    Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

    Contact hello@thewholemarketer.com to get in touch with Abby and the team

    Tue, 04 Aug 2026 - 45min
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