NIC Chats

Listen in as Beth Mace, Senior Advisor at NIC, sits down with Zach Bowyer, Senior Managing Director and head of living sectors at Cushman and Wakefield to discuss today’s capital markets, including the intersection of property market fundamentals and capital market pressure as well as how current conditions are affecting valuations and investment strategies. 

From discussing distressed properties and buyer profiles to exploring the inflection point at which the industry finds itself, this podcast is filled with insights on the unique challenges and opportunities within the senior housing sector. 

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Are you ready to unravel secrets to success with the senior living workforce? In this episode of the NIC Chats podcast, broadcast live from the 2023 NIC Fall Conference in Chicago, NIC’s Head of Research & Analytics, Lisa McCracken, discusses solutions to senior living workforce challenges with Brett Landrum, Co-CEO of Procare HR. 

Listen in as they uncover the crucial elements of successful human resources strategies in senior care. Learn why Landrum believes it’s all about the basics, and discover insights on: 

Tune in and gain the knowledge you need to help your workforce thrive in senior care. 

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Delve into the senior housing transaction market with Beth Mace, Senior Advisor at NIC, in this captivating conversation with Al Della Porta, Managing Director and head of the Capital Markets Group at AEW Capital Management. Learn about the challenges and opportunities arising from the swiftly changing interest rate environment, and gain insights into how seasoned professionals like Della Porta are adapting to market shifts. Explore how senior housing fares in today’s shifting landscape.

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In this first episode of our new NIC Chats podcast series focused on today's capital market conditions and implications for senior housing and care, NIC senior advisor Beth Mace speaks with Jim Costello, chief economist on the MSCI Real Estate Assets team. Learn why Costello likens today’s capital markets to a stretchy rubber band, why he believes distressed assets may prompt a transactions turning point, and when he thinks the market will settle down. Hear Costello’s perspective on how, and why, today’s capital markets turmoil affects senior housing differently than some other commercial sectors. 

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In this special episode, discover the remarkable experiences and lessons learned from our very own host, NIC Chief Economist, Beth Mace. This time, Chuck Harry, NIC’s Chief Operating Officer, poses the very questions Beth has expertly asked more than 25 other industry leaders over the years. 

Drawing from her vast experience, Beth offers wisdom and perspectives that can only come from a true expert in the field. Gain insights into the senior housing sector, including tactics Beth advises to increase resident and staff retention. Join us as we celebrate the invaluable contributions of this industry icon. 

And, of course, it wouldn’t be a NIC Chats podcast without the “two truths and a lie” that help you get to know industry leaders better. Listen in to hear what draws Beth to France every year, and if she really was the first female ice cream truck driver in the Boston suburbs. 

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Join us as we delve into Susan Barlow's inspiring journey, exploring how her interest in senior housing propelled her as Co-founder & Managing Partner of Blue Moon Capital Partners, and NIC Board Vice Chair, to find success leading a women-owned business. On this episode of the NIC Chats podcast, those involved in senior housing debt and equity will gain valuable insights on selecting the right operators, aligning investment structures, and navigating the evolving landscape of the senior housing industry. And don't forget to test your detective skills with Beth Mace in another exciting round of "Two Truths and a Lie." Make your guess on which statement about Susan is actually false:

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What is thematic investing and why does Kurt Read swear by it? 
What makes a good investment opportunity? 
And did Kurt actually herd sheep for Rupert Murdoch?

In this episode of NIC Chats, Kurt Read, managing director of RSF Partners and NIC board chair, talks with Beth Mace about RSF’s thematic approach and requirements for investing and why this is the time for radical transparency in the senior housing industry. Later, they address how the labor shortage in senior housing has created growth opportunities for young professionals.  

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“The senior housing industry shouldn’t be afraid to disrupt itself,” said John Cochrane, president and CEO of HumanGood, on the latest NIC Chats podcast with Beth Mace. Listen to Cochrane share how HumanGood is embracing change by working to apply its existing operational models to lower-income middle market housing, integrating technology, and offering healthcare services to create positive long-term outcomes for residents. The old notions of aging are going away, but Cochrane has confidence that the senior housing industry can adapt as it always has. “I've been in this field now for almost 30 years. I have never been more excited about the future of our field, about the importance of our field, about the opportunities in our field than I am today.”

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How is “wellness” defined in senior living? According to Brenda Bacon, founder & CEO of Brandywine Living, it’s about providing residents safety, protection, and happiness—and making every day worth living. Brandywine Living started while the senior living industry was still in its infancy and has put resident well-being at the forefront since day one. Bacon joined NIC Chief Economist Beth Mace to discuss how Brandywine’s leadership adjusts offerings to meet the needs of residents in its 30+ communities, how the company works to make life more exciting for the older adults it serves, and why seeing every challenge as an opportunity is key to succeeding in the industry.  

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Q: What do Disney and the senior housing industry have in common?

A: Sarah Duggan has worked at both, and they each rely on a strong culture to maintain their workforce. Duggan, the Executive Director of Wholesale Banking and Seniors Housing and Healthcare Lending at Synovus Bank, acknowledges that workforce retention is the largest challenge facing the senior housing industry, and the key to engaging young people is to bring them directly to the sites to see the mission and positive impact in action. Listen to this NIC Chats podcast and learn what Duggan looks for in a borrower, how the current economic climate has affected lending activity, what she thinks the senior housing industry should do more of, and what she’s bullish about.  

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Have you considered Gen X as an audience for your communities? Jane Arthur-Roslovic, CEO & co-founder of multifamily developer and operator Treplus Communities has and is all in on the active adult property type. Noticing few options for younger and healthier older adults who wanted an active, community-based living arrangement, Arthur-Roslovic and her siblings teamed up to create Treplus Communities—currently  operating five resource-rich active adult communities in Ohio for adults age 55+. Arthur-Roslovic joined NIC Chief Economist Beth Mace to discuss how active adult properties meet the needs and desires of residents, the challenges and opportunities facing the emerging asset class, and the role she expects Gen X and Millennials to play in driving near- and long-term demand.  

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Early in the COVID pandemic, Henry Kissinger noted that the historic challenge for leaders was to manage the crisis while building the future. This inspired NIC Co-Founder and Strategic Advisor, Bob Kramer, to consider what it means to build the future, and what the future might look like for senior housing and care. Kramer has identified “Six Key Drivers” that will shape the senior living industry over the next 10 years. Learn more about these drivers in this insightful conversation with NIC Chief Economist, Beth Mace. 

Ablog seriesdetailing each key driver is available on our website. 

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The NIC Chats podcast was “On the Road” at the 2022 NIC Fall Conference. NIC Chief Economist, Beth Mace, was joined by VIUM Capital’s Steve Kennedy, co-founder and Executive Managing Director, and Alison Lemle, Chief Underwriter, who shared their experiences and insights on today’s capital and debt markets for the senior housing and health care sectors. Hear Kennedy and Lemle’s perspectives on how the pandemic has reshaped the industry, where they see the business heading over the next few years, and their thoughts on how to respond to today’s capital market conditions.

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Arnold Whitman knows how to adapt during market disruption. As the Founder and Executive Chairman of Formation Capital, he created his business by responding to industry needs during a distressed market, finding opportunities in the challenges. Recent market disruptions are moving the industry toward greater technology interoperability, which Whitman predicts has the potential to improve quality of care and reduce overall healthcare costs. Disruptions are also causing the industry to reconsider how to attract new talent, which Whitman says requires de-stigmatizing the industry and highlighting how interesting and fulfilling it can be. “We need to attract the type of person who is focused on giving back, and recognize and reward laborers and workers at every level,” he said. “It's going to be challenging…but our industry has always been very good at adapting.” 

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When looking for senior housing options for a loved one, Patricia Will, founder & CEO of Belmont Village Senior Living, told herself, “If I can’t find one, I’ll make one.” From developing her first community—designed to provide a level of care and service that she’d expect for her own family—to now operating and developing communities in 15 states, Will has continuously put the needs and desires of residents first. Will joined Beth Mace, NIC’s chief economist and director of outreach, to discuss the evolution of her career in senior housing and care, the innovative programs Belmont offers to keep residents healthy and engaged, and the resilience of their staff throughout the pandemic.  

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Facing unprecedented challenges during the COVID-19 pandemic, senior living providers responded with courage and resilience. Offering a behind-the-scenes look, Cindy Baier, President and CEO of Brookdale Senior Living, returns to NIC Chats to discuss her new book, Heroes Work Here, with Beth Mace. Baier shares how the book preserves these caregivers’ important role in history from their efforts to save lives throughout 2020 and 2021 and serves as a guide for leaders who are navigating unchartered waters.  

Hear how Brookdale’s heroes responded to the public health crisis and the steps Baier took as a leader to make employees feel valued and listened to. All net proceeds from the book will go to Brookdale’s associate compassion fund, which provides financial assistance to eligible associates facing financial challenges. “This really is the story of our incredible associates, our everyday heroes, so it's only fitting that the proceeds from the book should go back to support them when they need it most,” said Baier.  

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Fee Stubblefield, founder and CEO of The Springs Living, has never been more excited or optimistic about senior living. Listen as he and Beth Mace discuss how having a purpose, mission and plan has helped solidify his company’s reputation among both residents and staff, leading to The Springs Living being named one of the best workplaces for aging services. Plus, learn which 2022 NIC Spring Conference session gave Stubblefield a lightbulb moment and how his family has inspired his business decisions, even down to the company name.

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Roosevelt Davis, Senior Director of Seniors Housing at Fannie Mae – one of the largest sources of capital for lenders financing multifamily properties, including seniors housing and care properties – explains how the organization was able to manage risk to continue supporting the industry and providing capital during the COVID-19 pandemic and what the Fannie Mae team looks for when underwriting seniors housing deals. 

Davis shares his advice for career success with Beth Mace, including the importance of perseverance, constantly learning, and working in an industry that you love.  

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Lynne Katzmann, founder and CEO of Juniper Communities – a nationally recognized premier senior living provider – explains how her leadership style has changed over time, but her commitment to creating a better environment for the people she serves remains consistent. Katzmann talks about the challenges of being an entrepreneur and the importance of the “three P’s” – passion, planning, and perseverance. Holding your passion close, planning for the consumer of today and of tomorrow, and persevering through the numerous problems that arise.

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Brian Sunday, Managing Director and Senior Portfolio Manager at AEW Capital Management— one of the largest real estate asset managers in the world—shares how his mentor helped him see the full potential of the senior housing industry. AEW wants to add value to their operators and takes pride in doing more than just writing a check. Sunday talks about throwing out AEW’s business plan early on in COVID to ensure their operators had the tools and resources they needed to keep residents and employees safe, and what he believes is the biggest challenge facing the industry.  

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Cindy Baier, President and CEO of Brookdale Senior Living—the nation’s largest senior living operator in the country—shares how growing up on a farm taught her the benefit of hard work. She tackles tough problems by studying them from every angle, utilizing a team with diverse perspectives, and putting every idea on the table, even the unlikely ones. Baier talks about the rewarding connections and relationships Brookdale staff have with residents–what she calls a “second paycheck”–and how this industry is unmatched with opportunities to make a difference. 

Key Insights: 

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Tana Gall, President of Merrill Gardens—a private, family-owned company based in Seattle, Washington—chats with Beth Mace about growing up in a town of just 324 people in eastern Washington to now running a company that operates 70 communities across 20 states in the U.S. Gall shares tactics that have helped keep costs down in their moderately priced communities, and how they’ve had success reducing staff turnover.

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Peter Kane, Managing Director and Group Head, Healthcare Banking at CIBC US, has been involved in financing senior housing since 1998, with a team that’s been together more than 15 years. Listen in as he and Beth Mace discuss the challenges of financing through the pandemic, particularly with skilled nursing, which is Kane’s specialty, and what is happening in the market today. On a more personal note, you’ll hear about Kane’s upbringing in a large family, and his experience on the golf course with Michael Jordan.

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Don Husi, Managing Director of the Senior Housing & Care Finance team at Ziegler, offers inspiring perspectives from more than 30 years in the industry. In this engaging conversation with NIC's Beth Mace, Husi shares his thoughts on growing talent in the industry and innovative ideas to strengthen the sector. Listen now!

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VIUM Capital’s Brendan Healy, Senior Managing Director, and Scott Tittle, Managing Director, Head of Governmental Relations and External Affairs, share their perspectives on how the pandemic has reshaped the industry, where they see the business heading over the next few years, and their thoughts on how to overcome today’s labor challenges. You'll hear some things that will surprise you!

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Kelly Cook Andress, President, Sage Senior Living, talks to Beth Mace about her early career working for the legendary Paul Klaassen of Sunrise Senior Living, how she runs her own 1,265 unit business like a Tyrannosaurus Rex, and how sleeping on the floor of a 1-bed apartment in New York for three weeks inspired improvements in her communities’ resident apartment designs. 

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Ed Williams is a Managing Director in Berkadia’s senior housing and healthcare group, one of the largest HUD lenders in the senior housing and care sector. In this episode, Williams shares with NIC Chief Economist Beth Mace how working in the industry has allowed him to combine his passions for caring for seniors, and for crunching numbers. They discuss the differences in HUD, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae lending – but discover plenty of personal similarities, both coming from large families, overcoming adversity, and employing tenacity and persistence to achieve early success in their careers. 

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Host Beth Mace sits down with Gaurie Rodman, Director of Development Services at Aptura, a Direct Supply Company to learn her vision for the future of senior housing design, including meeting the needs of the ‘forgotten middle,’ and evolving the senior living built environment post-pandemic. You’ll also hear about Rodman’s emigration to Milwaukee from Sri Lanka with two suitcases and $20, her first business, her host moms, and her connection to the world of rock and roll!  

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What do Bill Clinton, Pierce Brosnan, and the founding of one of the leading woman-owned businesses in seniors housing & care have in common? Listen to NIC Chief Economist Beth Mace interview Kathryn Sweeney, Managing Partner and Co-Founder at Blue Moon Capital Partners LP, to find out! In this NIC Chats episode, hear about Sweeney’s approach to business, the importance of having a personal perspective in investing, and how the industry will grow in the coming post-pandemic years. 

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In this authentic, engaging interview, Beth chats with industry thought-leader Scott Thurman, Chief Credit Officer, HUD Lending at Greystone, who’s responsible for over $1 billion in FHA lending in the sector. You’ll hear Thurman’s insights on the state of the industry today, suggestions for growing talent in seniors housing, his personal and career influences, plus his Lego collection! 

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You may think you know industry thought leader Bob Kramer, NIC co-founder & strategic advisor and founder of Nexus Insights, but in this engaging interview, you’ll learn some things that may surprise you. Kramer shares stories on how he started in the seniors housing industry, his tips on living an authentic life, his insights on the future, and even his taste for rock concerts!

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Get to know some of the leading voices and business leaders influencing seniors housing and skilled nursing today. Expect a little more humor, a few good stories from the frontlines, and perhaps a priceless insight gained from deep experience.  

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