Longform

John Jeremiah Sullivan is a contributing writer at the New York Times Magazine and has written for Harper's, The New Yorker, and GQ. He is the author of Pulphead and the forthcoming The Prime Minister of Paradise: The True Story of a Lost American History. “I love making pieces of writing and trying to find the right language to say what I mean. It's such a wonderful way of being alive in the world. I mean, your material is all around you. ... I'm lucky that it has stayed interesting for me. It hasn't faded. The challenges of writing, they still glow.” Show notes: Sullivan on Longform Sullivan’s GQ archive Sullivan’s New York Times Magazine archive 10:00 “Uhtceare” (Paris Review • May 2021) 28:00 Pulphead (FSG Originals • 2011) 30:00 The Best American Essays 2014 (Mariner Books • 2014) 30:00 “The Ill-Defined Plot” (New Yorker • Oct 2014) 50:00 “Man Called Fran” (Harper’s • Sept 2023) 50:00 “The Final Comeback of Axl Rose” (GQ • Aug 2006) 50:00 “Upon This Rock” (GQ • Jan 2004) 50:00 “Peyton’s Place” (GQ • Oct 2011) 50:00 “Leaving Reality” (GQ • Oct 2011) 54:00 “Pulp Fever” (Daniel Riley • GQ • Nov 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The hosts answer a few listener questions. Evan’s picks for some podcasts to try: Creative Nonfiction Press Box The Stacks Podcast: Sunday Long Read True Stories Question Everything Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ta-Nehisi Coates is an author and journalist. His next book is The Message. “I don’t think we have the luxury as journalists of avoiding things because people might say bad things about us. I don’t even think we have the luxury of avoiding things because we might get fired. I don’t think we have the luxury of avoiding them because somebody might cancel some sort of public speech that we have. I then have to ask you, what are you in it for? Like, why did you come here? Did you come here just to make a living? Because there are many other things where you could make more money.” Show notes: ta-nehisicoates.com Coates on Longform Longform Podcast #7: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #97: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #168: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #225: Ta-Nehisi Coates Longform Podcast #360: Ta-Nehisi Coates and Chris Jackson Longform Podcast #408: Ta-Nehisi Coates 04:00 "Fear of a Black President" (The Atlantic • Sep 2012) 05:00 The Beautiful Struggle (One World • 2009) 12:00 "The Case for Reparations" (The Atlantic • Jun 2014) 13:00 Between the World and Me (One World • 2015) 36:00 "The Mask of Doom" (New Yorker • Sep 2009) 40:00 "How Tech Giants Cut Corners to Harvest Data for A.I." (Cade Metz, Cecilia Kang, Sheera Frenkel, Stuart A. Thompson and Nic Grant • New York Times • Apr 2024) 42:00 Shell Game (Evan Ratliff • 2024) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jay Caspian Kang is a staff writer for The New Yorker and a co-host of Time to Say Goodbye. “At some point, you have to kick it out the door, and it’s never finished to the degree that you would finish a magazine piece. But it, in some ways, is more interesting because it is produced in a short amount of time, and it’s read as something that is not supposed to be complete. It’s just meant to provoke or to provide thought or whatever, to provide some sort of context on a certain issue or not. And I actually like that a lot better than the magazine writing. I respect the magazine writers—obviously, I was one—but for my disposition now, in my lifestyle, I actually enjoy having to produce this thing every week.” Have a question for the mailbag? Email the show or leave a voicemail at (929) 333-2908. Show notes: @jaycaspiankang Kang on Longform Kang on Longform Podcast (Oct 2021) Kang on Longform Podcast (Aug 2017) Kang on Longform Podcast (Apr 2013) Kang’s New Yorker archive 06:00 Coin Talk 08:00 Tyler Austin Harper’s Atlantic archive 10:00 Serial 12:00 The Daily 20:00 “The High Is Always the Pain and the Pain Is Always the High” (The Morning News • Oct 2010) 28:00 James (Percival Everett • Doubleday • 2024) 34:00 “American Son” (ESPN • July 2024) 35:00 Kang’s VICE archive 42:00 “Mike Francesa Still Believes in the Power of Radio” (New York Times • Aug 2018) 43:00 Kang’s Grantland archive 43:00 Kang’s New York Times archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joseph Cox is a cybersecurity journalist and co-founder of 404 Media. His new book is Dark Wire: The Incredible True Story of the Largest Sting Operation Ever. “In the not too distant future, I will be a very old man, and maybe I won't be able to spend all day talking to drug traffickers. I will be mentally and physically exhausted. So I will doggedly pursue the story right now while I can.” Show notes: @josephfcox Cox's 404 Media archive Cox's Vice archive Dark Wire: The Incredible True Story of the Largest Sting Operation Ever (PublicAffairs • 2024) 08:00 "FBI’s Encrypted Phone Platform Infiltrated Hundreds of Criminal Syndicates; Result is Massive Worldwide Takedown" (U.S. Attorney’s Office, Southern District of California • Jun 2021) 10:00 Billion Dollar Whale: The Man Who Fooled Wall Street, Hollywood, and the World (Bradley Hope and Tom Wright • Hachette • 2018) 19:00 "Revealed: The Country that Secretly Wiretapped the World for the FBI" (404 Media • Sep 2023) 38:00 "Follow The Bitcoins: How We Got Busted Buying Drugs on Silk Road’s Black Market" (Andy Greenberg • Forbes • Sep 2013) 41:00 "Hundreds of Bounty Hunters Had Access to AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint Customer Location Data for Years" (Motherboard • Feb 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tavi Gevinson is a writer, actor, and the founder of Rookie. Her new zine is Fan Fiction. “Stories are unstable, and memory is unstable, and identity is unstable. All of these things that I've tried to make permanent in writing, they're actually unstable. So even though it's tempting to go, Oh, that was fake, it's more like, No, it was just temporary.” Show notes: @tavitulle tavigevinson.world Gevinson on Longform Gevinson on Longform Podcast Gevinson’s Rookie archive 10:00 Operation Shylock (Philip Roth • Simon & Schuster • 1993) 10:00 Erasure (Percival Everett • Graywolf Press • 2011) 14:00 “Taylor Swift Has No Regrets” (Elle • June 2015) 20:00 I Love Dick (Chris Kraus • Semiotext(e) • 1997) 24:00 “Who Would Tavi Gevinson Be Without Instagram?” (New York • Sept 2019) 40:00 “Editor’s Letter” (Rookie • Nov 2018) 50:00 “The Special Panic of Singing Sondheim” (New Yorker • Dec 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rachel Khong is a journalist and author whose latest novel is Real Americans. “It's about the ways in which we miss each other as human beings and can't fully communicate what it is like to be ourselves. … And I think that's what makes it so interesting to me, to work on a novel and to spend so much time trying to get down on the page what it feels like to be a human being who's alive. … I think the effort itself is what human relationships are.” Show notes: rachelkhong.com 01:00 Real Americans (Knopf • 2024) 01:00 Goodbye, Vitamin (Picador • 2017) 01:00 Lucky Peach archive 01:00 "Would Limitlessness Make Us Better Writers?" (The Atlantic • Apr 2024) 01:00 "Dust to Dust" (Eater • May 2024) 05:00 "New Pornographers + Stars, 6/25 Prospect Park Summer Stage" (Village Voice • Jun 2005) 09:00 Same Bed Different Dreams (Ed Park • Random House • 2023) 12:00 "Inside My Days as a Content Bot" (Esquire • Apr 2024) 24:00 "The Rumpus Interview with Elizabeth Gilbert" (Rumpus • Oct 2012) 24:00 Eat Pray Love (Elizabeth Gilbert • Riverhead • 2007) 24:00 Elizabeth Gilbert's GQ archive 54:00 "The Great Pacific Oyster Trail" (Eater • Jun 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kelsey McKinney is a features writer and co-owner at Defector.com. She hosts the podcast Normal Gossip and is the author of the upcoming book You Didn't Hear This From Me: (Mostly) True Notes on Gossip. “I was always very interested in how you strategize a creative career. And I think that that is an unsexy thing to talk about, right? It's much sexier to be like, Oh, I love working on my sentence-level craft, which is not true for me. But I think that a lot of a creative career is understanding it is still a job, and then understanding how you make sure that within the container of the job you can do the work that you want to do. That is a really difficult balance to make. So if you can understand how people who have done it before you, you can copy them.” Show notes: @mckinneykelsey kelseymckinney.com McKinney on Longform McKinney’s Defector archive 04:00 “Why Doesn’t Mrs. Dalloway Get a Day of Her Own?” (Slate • Jan 2000) 13:00 “Chris Evans: American Marvel” (Edith Zimmerman • GQ • July 2011) 23:00 McKinney’s Deadspin archive 31:00 God Spare the Girls (Harper Collins • 2022) 39:00 “Gossip Is Not a Sin” (New York Times • July 2021) 43:00 You Didn’t Hear This From Me (Viking • 2025) 58:00 “Learning To Play Piano When There Is No Recital” (Defector • Dec 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lissa Soep is an audio producer, editor and author whose latest book is Other People’s Words: Friendship, Loss, and the Conversations That Never End. “I am so keenly aware of how much my own voice is a product of editing relationships and co-producing relationships with other people's words. … I will forever feel indebted to those then young people who are now writers and educators and therapists. … I feel like my voice is sort of a product of that time.” Show notes: 00:00 Other People’s Words: Friendship, Loss, and the Conversations that Never End (Spiegel & Grau • 2024) 00:00 YR Media 33:00 "Laurie Anderson Has a Message for Us Humans" (Sam Anderson • New York Times Magazine • Oct 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PJ Vogt is the host of Search Engine. “One of our tests editorially is if we think we’ve got something good, but we haven’t started reporting or recording on it, I’ll just try asking the question at dinner and stuff. If it derails conversations, that’s a really good sign.” Show notes: @PJVogt Vogt’s Substack Vogt on Longform Podcast 03:00 “Why Are There So Many Illegal Weed Stores in New York City? (Part 1)” (Search Engine • Mar 2024) 03:00 “Why Are There So Many Illegal Weed Stores in New York City? (Part 2)” (Search Engine • April 2024) 03:00 “When Do You Know It’s Time to Stop Drinking?” (Search Engine • Jan 2024) 08:00 “Why Are There So Many Chicken Bones on the Street? (Part 1)” (Search Engine • Jan 2024) 08:00 “Why Are There So Many Chicken Bones on the Street? (Part 2)” (Search Engine • Jan 2024) 13:00 “Is There a Sane Way to Use the Internet?” (Search Engine • Oct 2023) 15:00 “How Do You Survive Fame?” (Search Engine • Feb 2024) 15:00 “The Tao of Rick Rubin” (New York Times • The Ezra Klein Show • Feb 2023) 15:00 “Rick Rubin Says Trust Your Gut, Not Your Audience” (Bari Weiss • The Free Press • Mar 2023) 16:00 “Rick Rubin, The Seclusive Zen Master” (Tim Ferriss • Jan 2023) 16:00 “Frank Sinatra Has a Cold” (Gay Talese • Esquire • April 1966) 18:00 The Ezra Klein Show 18:00 Fresh Air 19:00 Crypto Island (Jigsaw Productions • 2022) 26:00 “Do Political Yard Signs Actually Do Anything?” (Search Engine • Apr 2024) 27:00 Reply All 35:00 “What’s Going on With Elon Musk?” (Search Engine • July 2023) 38:00 “What’s It Like to Go Blind? (Search Engine • July 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lindsay Peoples is the editor-in-chief of The Cut. “You see so many incredible people make one mistake and lose their job or they speak out about something and then the next day something blows up. And so I do think that I often feel like I have to be so careful. And that's hard to do because I'm just naturally curious and I want to know and I want to find and explore and do the things. But I'm aware that … people think I'm too young. I'm too Black. I'm aware of all those things and I'm still going to try.” Show notes: 01:00 "Everywhere and Nowhere: What It’s Really Like to Be Black and Work in Fashion" (The Cut • Aug 2018) 09:00 The Devil Wears Prada (Fox 2000 Pictures • 2006) 29:00 David Haskell on Longform Podcast 31:00 "Should I Leave My Husband? The Lure of Divorce" (Emily Gould • The Cut • Feb 2024) 31:00 "The Day I Put $50,000 in a Shoe Box and Handed It to a Stranger" (Charlotte Cowles • The Cut • Feb 2024) 31:00 "Age Gap Relationships: The Case for Marrying an Older Man" (Grazie Sophia Christie • The Cut • Mar 2024) 50:00 "Is There Room for Fashion Criticism in a Racist Industry?" (The Cut • Aug 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jason Motlagh, a journalist and filmmaker, is a contributing editor at Rolling Stone and the founder of Blackbeard Films. He won the Polk's Sydney Schanberg Prize for “This Will End in Blood and Ashes,” an account of the collapse of order in Haiti. “Once you've gotten used to this kind of metabolism, it can be hard to walk away from it. Ordinary life can be a little flat sometimes. And so that's always kind of built in. I accept that. I think I've just tried to be more honest about like, [am I taking this risk] because I need a bump my life? Or do you really believe in what you're doing? And I feel like I really do need to believe in the purpose of the story. There has to be some motivation greater than myself." This is the last in a series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Howey is a freelance journalist who won the Polk Award for Justice Reporting after exposing a deceptive police tactic widely used in California. He began the project, which was eventually published by the Los Angeles Times and Reveal, as a graduate student in the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism. “It’s one thing to hear about this tactic and hear about parents being questioned in this way. It’s another thing entirely to hear the change in a parent’s voice when they realize for the past 20 minutes they’ve been speaking ill of a relative who’s actually been dead the entire time, and to hear that wave of grief and sometimes that feeling of betrayal that cropped up in their voice and how the way that they spoke to the officers afterwards changed.” This is the fourth in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meribah Knight is a reporter with Nashville Public Radio. She won the Polk Award for Podcasting for “The Kids of Rutherford County,” produced with ProPublica and Serial, which revealed a shocking approach to juvenile discipline in one Tennessee county. “Where does it leave me? It leaves me with a searing anger that is going to propel me to the next thing. But we’ve made some real improvement. And that’s worth celebrating. That’s worth recognizing and saying, This work matters, people are paying attention.” This is the third in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jesse Coburn is an investigative reporter at Streetsblog. He won the Polk Award for Local Reporting for "Ghost Tags," his series on the black market for temporary license plates. “You can imagine this having never become a problem, because it’s so weird. What a weird scam. I’m going to print and sell tens of thousands of paper license plates. But someone figured it out. And then a lot more people followed. It just exploded.” This is the second in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amel Guettatfi and Julia Steers won this year's George Polk Award for Television Reporting for “Inside Wagner,” their Vice News investigation of Russian mercenaries on the Ukraine front and in the Central African Republic.  “One of the best takeaways I got from seven or eight years at Vice is that it’s not enough for something to be important when you’re figuring out how to make a story. It’s the intersection of important and interesting. And that has taught me that people will watch anything, anywhere, as long as it’s interesting. Nobody owes us their time. The onus is on us to explain things in an interesting, compelling way. I’m hoping that a landscape opens up somewhere else that sees that and understands that can be done anywhere in the world.” This is the first in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vinson Cunningham is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His novel, published in March 2024, is Great Expectations. “I think the job is just paying a bunch of attention. If you're a person like me, where thoughts and worries are intruding on your consciousness all the time, it is a great relief to have something to just over-describe and over-pay-attention to—and kind of just give all of your latent, usually anxious attention to this one thing. That, to me, is a great joy.” Show notes: @vcunningham vinson.nyc Cunningham on Longform Cunningham's New Yorker archive 04:00 "’The Suit’ at BAM" (Brooklyn Paper • Jan 2013) 04:00 "Label Maker: Edward Buchanan" (Nylon Guys • Mar 2015) 09:00 circlejerk.live 11:00 Jeremy O. Harris’ plays 11:00 "How Are Audiences Adapting to the Age of Virtual Theatre?" (New Yorker • Oct 2020) 18:00 "The Season of Russell Westbrook and a New Era in N.B.A. Fandom" (New Yorker • Apr 2017) 25:00 Cunningham's McSweeney’s archive 25:00 "The Flies in Kehinde Wiley’s Milk" (The Awl • Jun 2015) 25:00 "Can Black Art Ever Escape the Politics of Race?" (New York Times Magazine • Aug 2015) 25:00 "How Chris Jackson is Building a Black Literary Movement" (New York Times Magazine • Feb 2016) 27:00 "Stephon Marbury Has His Own Story to Tell" (New Yorker • Apr 2020) 28:00 "The Playful, Political Art of Sanford Biggers" (New Yorker • Jan 2018) 29:00 WTF with Marc Maron 32:00 "Tracy Morgan Turns the Drama of His Life into Comedy" (New Yorker • May 2019) 36:00 Redd Foxx party albums 38:00 Alexandra Schwartz’ New Yorker archive 41:00 Simon Parkin on Longform 41:00 Adrian Chen on Longform 42:00 "The Many Lives of Steven Yeun" (Jay Caspian Kang • New York Times Magazine • Feb 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Megan Kimble is the former executive editor of The Texas Observer and has written for The New York Times, Texas Monthly, and The Guardian. Her new book is City Limits: Infrastructure, Inequality, and the Future of America’s Highways. “I have never lived in a city that was not wrapped in highways. It’s hard for me to imagine anything else. And I think that’s true for a lot of people today. ... [But] we have known since the origins of the interstate highways program that building highways through cities doesn’t fix traffic. And yet we keep doing it. To me, that really fueled a lot of the book. It wasn’t supposed to be this way.” Show notes: @megankimble megankimble.com Kimble on Longform Kimble’s Texas Observer archive 11:00 Kimble’s Austin Monthly archive 13:00 “Austin’s Not-So-Fair Housing Market” (Austin Monthly • Sept 2018) 49:00 “The Road Home” (Texas Observer • July 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zach Harris is a journalist whose latest article for Rolling Stone is "Meet the Gen Z Hothead Burning Up Pro Bowling." “I'm not like a staff writer who has … status and access. But if I come up with something fun that you've never heard of that might connect to the larger culture, then it kind of hits a nerve and a sweet spot for me. Someone like a pro skateboarder or a pro bowler, you guys have never heard of. And so being able to present a person and a culture and a world to a wider audience, I think suits me well and has been really a fun way to do profiles.” Show notes: 00:00 "Meet the Gen Z Hothead Burning Up Pro Bowling" (Rolling Stone • Jan 2024) 01:00 "The Most Amazing Bowling Story Ever" (Michael J. Mooney • D Magazine • Jan 2000) 02:00 Longform's bowling archive 13:00 Harris’s Vice archive 26:00 Thrasher Magazine 28:00 Harris’s High Times archive 29:00 amandachicagolewis.com 31:00 Palo Alto: A History of California, Capitalism, and the World (Malcolm Harris • Little, Brown and Company • 2023) 33:00 firstwefeast.com 36:00 "Pandora’s Bag: Rap Snacks Are Proof that Time Is a Flat Circle" (Vice • Jun 2012) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rozina Ali is a contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine and the winner of the 2023 National Magazine Award for Reporting. Her latest article is “Raised in the West Bank, Shot in Vermont.” “I think it’s very, very important to speak to people as people. To speak to sources—even if you have the juiciest story—to really give them the grace. I think everyone deserves it, especially people who are going through such a difficult time.” Show notes: @rozina_ali rozina-ali.com Ali’s New York Times archive 16:00 “The Erasure of Islam from the Poetry of Rumi” (New Yorker • Jan 2017) 17:00 “The ‘Herald Square Bomber’ Who Wasn’t” (New York Times Magazine • April 2021) 25:00 “Marijuana Comes to Coalinga” (The Nation • Nov 2018) 29:00 “‘How Did This Man Think He Had the Right to Adopt This Baby?’” (New York Times Magazine • Nov 2022) 43:00 “The Afghan Women Left Behind” (New Yorker • Aug 2022) 46:00 “What Rashida Tlaib Represents” (New York Times Magazine • March 2022) 61:00 “The ISIS Beat” (The Drift • April 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Derek Thompson is a staff writer for The Atlantic and host of the podcast Plain English. “I am an inveterate dilettante. I lose interest in subjects all the time. Because what I find interesting about my job is the invitation to solve mysteries. And once you solve one, two, three mysteries in a space, then the meta-mystery of that space begins to dim. And all these other subjects—that's the new unlit space that needs the flashlight. And that's the part of the job that I love the most: that there are so many dark corners in the world. And I've just got this flashlight, and I can just shine it wherever the hell I want.” Show notes: @DKThomp Thompson's Atlantic archive 00:00 Hit Makers: How to Succeed in an Age of Distraction (Penguin • 2018) 00:00 Plain English with Derek Thompson (The Ringer) 05:00 "Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out" (The Atlantic • Feb 2024) 18:00 "The Americans Who Need Chaos" (The Atlantic • Feb 2024) 23:00 "America’s Loneliness Epidemic Comes for the Restaurant" (The Atlantic • Mar 2024) 35:00 "Stop Trying to Ask 'Smart Questions'" (The Atlantic • Jan 2023) 39:00 "The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson" (The Bill Simmons Podcast • Feb 2024) 40:00 "What Many Economists (and I) Got Wrong About This Economy" (Plain English • Mar 2024) 43:00 "How Hollywood’s Hit Formula Flopped—and What Could Come Next" (Plain English • Mar 2024) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tessa Hulls is a writer and artist whose work has appeared in The Rumpus, The Washington Post, and The Capitol Hill Times. Her new book, a graphic memoir, is Feeding Ghosts. “This project is the thing I have spent my entire life running from. I was incredibly determined to never touch this, either personally or professionally. … It was more an eventual act of resignation than a desire.” Show notes: @tessahulls tessahulls.com 17:00 Persepolis (Marjane Satrapi • Pantheon • 2004) 19:00 richardscarry.com 32:00 The Margery Davis Boyden Wilderness Writing Residency 36:00 “Longform Podcast #144: Cheryl Strayed” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sloane Crosley is the author of I Was Told There’d Be Cake and several other books. Her new memoir is Grief Is for People. “You take a little sliver of yourself and you offer it up to be spun around in perpetuity in the public imagination. That is the sacrifice you make. And it makes everything just a little bit worse. So it's the opposite of catharsis, but it's worth it. It's worth it for what you get in return: a book.” Show notes: sloanecrosley.com @askanyone Longform Podcast #343: Sloane Crosley 01:00 Grief Is for People (MCD • 2024) 14:00 Heartburn (Nora Ephron • Vintage • 1996) 25:00 "Patchett: In Bad Relationships, 'There Comes A Day When You Gotta Go.'" (Fresh Air with Terry Gross • WHYY • Jan 2014) 25:00 Joan Didion on Fresh Air with Terry Gross 25:00 "Long COVID, Chronic Illness & Searching For Answers" (Fresh Air with Terry Gross • WHYY • Feb 2022) 32:00 "Obituary: Russell Perreault, V-P at Vintage Anchor, 52" (Rachel Deahl • Publishers Weekly • Jul 2019) 37:00 The Clasp (Picador • 2016) 49:00 How Did You Get This Number (Riverhead Books • 2011) 51:00 "Five O’Clock Somewhere" (Gary Indiana • Granta • Feb 2024) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lauren Markham is the author of The Far Away Brothers: Two Young Migrants and the Making of an American Life and has written for The New York Times Magazine, The Guardian, and VQR. Her new book is A Map of Future Ruins: On Borders and Belonging. “It took me a while to figure out that this is actually a book about storytelling, about journalistic storytelling, about the kind of myths we spin culturally and politically, about history, about current events, and the role of journalism within all of that, and my role as a journalist.” Show notes: @LaurenMarkham_ laurenmarkham.info Markham on Longform 01:00 The Far Away Brothers (Crown • 2018) 03:00oaklandinternational.org 28:00 How the Word Is Passed (Clint Smith • Little, Brown and Company • 2021) 38:00 “How Greece Secretly Adopted the World’s Most Brazen—and Brutal—Way of Keeping Out Refugees” (Mother Jones • March 2022) 44:00 “For Me, With Love and Squalor” (Longreads • June 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zoë Schiffer is the managing editor for Platformer. Her new book is Extremely Hardcore: Inside Elon Musk’s Twitter. “Being the person where it's a fireable offense to leak to you … is kind of a badge of honor.” Show notes: zoeschiffer.com Schiffer's Platformer archive Extremely Hardcore: Inside Elon Musk’s Twitter (Portfolio • 2024) 03:00 Schiffer's Verge archive 08:00 "How Twitter’s child porn problem ruined its plans for an OnlyFans competitor" (Zoë Schiffer and Casey Newton • Verge • Aug 2022) 16:00 Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon (Michael Lewis • W. W. Norton • 2023) 36:00 Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future (Ashlee Vance • Ecco • 2017) 41:00 Ask a Swole Woman (Casey Johnston) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Ryan is the editorial director for The Ringer, where he co-hosts The Watch and The Rewatchables. “There is a point where there’s just too much stuff. I can’t read a 5,000-word feature, 10 blog posts, and listen to three podcasts, and then do it all again the next day. So that is the line you walk in digital publishing, whether it’s for editorial stuff or for podcasting. You have to accept the fact that there is not going to be a single person out there who listens to it all, and who can read it all, and who can watch it all. But you can imbue everything you do with a certain quality—both like a personality, characteristic quality, but also like a quality of production—that hopefully anybody who does like this kind of thing will find some value in it.” Show notes: @ChrisRyan77 Ryan’s Ringer archive 3:00Andy Greenwald on Longform Podcast 3:00 Ryan’s Grantland archive 05:00 Ryan’s Spin archive 05:00 Ryan’s Fader archive 05:00 Ryan’s Village Voice archive 06:00 chaunceybillups.blogspot.com 27:00 The Ringer’s Philly Special (The Ringer • 2022) 45:00 Fairway Rollin’ (The Ringer • 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patricia Evangelista is a trauma journalist whose coverage of the drug war in the Philippines has appeared in Rappler, Esquire, and elsewhere. Her recent book is Some People Need Killing: A Memoir of Murder in My Country. “It is hard to describe the beat I do without saying very often it involves people who have died. And it seemed like an unfair way to frame it. It didn't quite seem right. … Sometimes there's no dead body, or sometimes there's 6,000, but the function is the same: that the people you speak to have gone through enormous painful trauma, and then there's a way to cover it that minimizes that trauma. So … I don't cover the dead. I cover trauma.” Show notes: Evangelista's Rappler archive Some People Need Killing: A Memoir of Murder in My Country (Random House • 2023) 01:00 The Mastermind: A True Story of Murder, Empire, and a New Kind of Crime Lord (Evan Ratliff • Random House • 2020) 11:00 Evangelista's Philippine Daily Inquirer archive 21:00 "The Rapture of Rodrigo Duterte" (Patricia Evangelista and Nicole Curato • Rappler • May 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Susan Glasser, the former editor of Politico and Foreign Policy, writes the "Letter from Washington" column for the The New Yorker. Her most recent book, written with Peter Baker, is The Divider: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021. “There’s a great benefit to leaving Washington and then coming back, or frankly leaving anywhere and then coming back. I think you have much wider open eyes. Washington, like a lot of company towns, takes on a logic of its own, and things that can seem crazy to the rest of the country, to the rest of the world, somehow end up making more sense than they should when you’re just doing that all day long, every day.” Show notes: @sbg1 Glasser on Longform Glasser’s New Yorker archive 05:00 “The Year We Stopped Being Able to Pretend About Trump” (New Yorker • Dec 2023) 16:00 Glasser’s Politico archive 20:00 The Man Who Ran Washington (Glasser and Peter Baker • Anchor • 2021) 28:00 Peter Baker's New York Times archive 29:00 Kremlin Rising (Glasser and Peter Baker • Scribner • 2005) 37:00Theo Baker on the Longform Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rob Copeland is a finance reporter for The New York Times. His recent book is The Fund: Ray Dalio, Bridgewater Associates, and the Unraveling of a Wall Street Legend. “If I stab you, I'm going to stab you in the chest, not the back. You're going to see it coming. ... But if you're going to tell me something's wrong, you have to keep talking. I'm not going to take your word for it. I have a reason for why I believe my reporting to be true, and I'm going to present it to you as best I can. But just because you say something's wrong doesn't make it so.” Show notes: @realrobcopeland Copeland's New York Times archive Copeland’s Wall Street Journal archive 02:00 The Fund: Ray Dalio, Bridgewater Associates, and the Unraveling of a Wall Street Legend (St. Martin’s Press • 2023) 20:00 The Vow (HBO) 27:00 Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup (John Carreyou • Vintage • 2020) 29:00 "#557: Adam Grant" (Longform Podcast • Nov 2023) 29:00 Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World (Adam Grant • Penguin Books • 2017) 31:00 "Elon Musk Says He Lives in a $50,000 House. He Doesn’t Talk About the Austin Mansion." (Wall Street Journal • Dec 2021) 37:00 Principles: Life and Work (Ray Dalio • Avid Reader Press • 2017) 46:00 Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon (Michael Lewis • W. W. Norton & Company • 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Miles Johnson is an investigative reporter for the Financial Times. He is the author of Chasing Shadows: A True Story of Drugs, War and the Secret World of International Crime and the host of Hot Money: The New Narcos. “I’m really fascinated always by the ways in which people just have to do really boring parts of running a crime organization … I love the banalities of this stuff. We have a fictionalized version of crime groups and it’s obviously glamorous, and they’re really smart, but there’s a lot of stuff that’s bumbling incompetence as well or just quite unglamorous.” Show notes: @MilesMJohnson Johnson’s Financial Times archive 06:00 Johnson’s Guardian archive 07:00 Paul Murphy’s Financial Times archive 9:00 “How the Mafia Infiltrated Italy’s Hospitals and Laundered the Profits Globally” (Financial Times • July 2020) 14:00 “The Mystery of the Mogul, the Casino and the Heist that Rocked Mayfair” (Financial Times • May 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hua Hsu is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His book Stay True won the 2023 Pulitzer Prize for memoir. “I've worked as a journalist … for quite a while. … But this [book] was the thing that was always in the back of my mind. Like, this was the thing that a lot of that was in service of. Just becoming better at describing a song or describing the look of someone's face—these were all things that I implicitly understood as skills I needed to acquire. ... It is sort of an origin story for why I got so obsessive about writing.” Show notes: @huahsu byhuahsu.com Hsu on Longform Hsu on Longform Podcast Hsu's New Yorker archive 03:00 A Floating Chinaman: Fantasy and Failure Across the Pacific (Harvard University Press • 2016) 30:00 "Randall Park Breaks Out of Character" (New Yorker • Feb 2023) 33:00 Shortcomings (Adrian Tomine • Drawn & Quarterly • 2007) 39:00 "What Conversation Can Do For Us" (New Yorker • Mar 2023) 39:00 "J. Crew and the Paradoxes of Prep" (New Yorker • Mar 2023) 39:00 "The Many Afterlives of Vincent Chin" (New Yorker • Jun 2022) 39:00 "How Wayne Wang Faces Failure" (New Yorker • Jun 2022) 39:00 "Maxine Hong Kingston’s Genre-Defying Life and Work" (New Yorker • Jun 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Roxanna Asgarian is the author of We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America. “Every once in a while, I'll have someone just freak out at me. And it keeps you honest, in a way, because they don't owe you anything. People don't owe you anything as a journalist. ... But everyone reacts to trauma differently and some people really do want to talk about it. And I think the families in this book really wanted to talk about it and it felt like no one was even paying attention to them.” Show notes: @strawburriez Asgarian's Texas Tribune archive We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2023) 12:00 "Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash" (Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Mar 2018) 12:00 "Devonte Hart family crash: Sarah Hart sent alarming 3 a.m. text to friend ... then silence" (Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 13:00 "Devonte Hart family crash: 'It's just devastating,' says aunt who fought for custody" (Roxanna Asgarian and Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 34:00 "Devonte Hart's biological mom: They gave my kids 'to monsters'" (The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 45:00 "Before Children’s Grisly Deaths, A Family Fought for Them and Lost" (The Appeal • Jul 2018) 45:00 "A Mother Grapples with an Adoption that Led to Deaths" (The Appeal • Feb 2019) 45:00 "His siblings were killed by their adoptive mother. He was left in foster care to suffer a more common fate." (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 46:00 Broken Harts (Glamour and HowStuffWorks • 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Daisy Alioto is a journalist and the CEO of Dirt Media. “I don't think I was ever super precious about my writing, but if I was, I'm zero percent precious about it now. Every time I write for Dirt, it saves the company money. ... Nothing will make you sit down and write 800 words in 20 minutes than just needing to get it done. And that is a change that I've seen in myself. I would encourage everyone to be less precious about their writing.” Show notes: daisyalioto.com 00:00 Dirt 09:00 "Marie Colvin’s Private War" (Marie Brenner • Vanity Fair • Jul 2012) 09:00 A Private War (Acacia Filmed Entertainment, Savvy Media Holdings, Thunder Road Pictures • 2018) 05:00 Airmail 11:00 "Pretend it’s a living" (Dirt • Jan 2021) 15:00 Prune 16:00 Hung Up (Hunter Harris) 16:00 Maybe Baby (Hayley Nahman) 16:00 Today in Tabs (Rusty Foster) 16:00 Blackbird Spyplane (Jonah Weiner and Erin Wylie) 16:00 Singal-Minded (Jesse Singal) 17:00 "The Complete History & Strategy of LVMH" (Acquired • Feb 2023) 24:00 "Grizzly man" (Amelia K. • Dirt • Jun 2023) 24:00 "The Question of U" (Amelia K. • Dirt • Nov 2023) 25:00 "Diary of a chess tournament" (Akram Herrak • Dirt • Nov 2023) 25:00 "The sound of your voice" (Joann Plockova • Dirt • Nov 2023) 25:00 "For the love of chickens" (Tove Danovich • Dirt • Sep 2023) 26:00 "Bad waitress" (Becca Schuh • Dirt • Jun 2023) 28:00 "Užupis Utopia" (Playboy • Dec 2019) 35:00 Someone Who Isn’t Me (Geoff Rickly • Rose Books • 2023) 37:00 Fragantica 37:00 "Bottle Elizabeth Taylor" (Daisy Alioto • Dirt • Jun 2023) 39:00 The Ugly History of Beautiful Things: Essays on Desire and Consumption (Katy Kelleher • Simon & Schuster • 2023) 41:00 Scent + Song (Vivian Medithi) 44:00 Axios 44:00 The Information 44:00 Punchbowl News 44:00 The Ankler 44:00 Semafor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ian Coss is a journalist, audio producer, and composer. He is the host of Forever is a Long Time and The Big Dig. “One thing that I really carried with me in making the show is a belief that bureaucracy is interesting. And that once you get through the jargon and wonky sounding stuff … beyond that it’s all just human drama.” Show notes: @ian_coss iancoss.com 32:00 Isabel Hibbard’s website 33:00 Forever is a Long Time (PRX • 2021) 37:00 Lacy Roberts’ website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mosi Secret has written for ProPublica, The New York Times Magazine, and GQ. His new podcast is Radical. “I think this story made me call on parts of myself that are not journalistic because I don’t really think that’s the way we’re going to get out of this at this point in my life. I think that it takes a more radical reimagining of who we are as human beings, the ways in which we’re connected, and what we owe to each other. And that’s not a reporting thing—that’s a ‘who are you’ kind of thing.” Show notes: mosisecret.com Secret on Longform Secret’s New York Times archive 10:00 “Stolen Youth: How Durham's Criminal Justice System Sent Erick Daniels to Prison Based on the Shape of His Eyebrows” (INDYWeek • May 2007) 18:00 “On the Brink in Brownsville” (New York Times Magazine • May 2014) 21:00 “‘The Way to Survive It Was to Make A’s’” (New York Times Magazine • September 2017) 23:00 Johnny Kauffman’s website 28:00 “Having a Drink With Mosi Secret, the New York Times’ First-Ever Sin and Vice Reporter” (Joe Coscarelli • New York Magazine • June 2014) 29:00 “Behind the Red Door” (New York Times • May 2014) 38:00 “The Real 'CSI': How America’s Patchwork System of Death Investigations Puts the Living at Risk” (A.C. Thompson • ProPublica • Feb 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mary Roach is the author of seven nonfiction books, including Fuzz: When Nature Breaks the Law. "In these realms of the taboo, there's a tremendous amount of material that is really interesting, but that people have stayed away from. ... I'm kind of a bottom feeder. It's down there on the bottom where people don't want to go. But if that's what it takes to find interesting, new material, I'm fine with it. I don't care. I'm not easily grossed out. I don't feel that there's any reason why we shouldn't look at this. And over time, I started to feel that ... the taboo was preventing people from having conversations that it would be healthy to have." Show notes: @mary_roach maryroach.net Roach on Longform 00:00 Fuzz: When Nature Breaks the Law (W.W. Norton • 2021) 01:00 Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers (W.W. Norton • 2003) 01:00 Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex (W.W. Norton • 2008) 01:00 Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void (W.W. Norton • 2010) 01:00 Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal (W.W. Norton • 2014) 02:00 "Cute Inc." (Wired • Dec 1999) 12:00 Roach's Salon archive 46:00 "Hot Seat" (Discover • Mar 1998) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Craig Mod is a writer and photographer who has two newsletters, Roden and Ridgeline. His new book is Things Become Other Things. “There'll be days where … I’m doing a walk and I'll just be like, I don't know what is going to move me today. And then out of the blue, there'll be this small interaction that when you really pay attention to it, it contains kind of this universe of kindness and patience that you otherwise pass by or ignore. If you're in the general mode of looking at things and then being able to take that experience and try to transmute it into an essay for the evening and send it out, it just develops your eye. You just start being able to look more and more and more closely.” Show notes: craigmod.com Things Become Other Things (Fine art edition • 2023 // Hardcover edition • Random House • 2025) Roden (Newsletter) Ridgeline (Newsletter) 1:00 Mod on Longform Podcast 6:30 Koya Bound: Eight Days on the Kumano Kodō (with Dan Rubin • PRE/POST • 2016) 16:00 Kiiiiiiiiiiiiii 16:00 Special Projects (Newsletter) 20:00 Kissa by Kissa (2020) 31:00 Pachinko Road (Pop Up Newsletter) 32:00 "I Walked 600 Miles Across Japan for Pizza Toast" (Eater • Dec 2019) 32:00 "The Glorious, Almost-Disconnected Boredom of My Walk in Japan" (Wired • May 2019) 45:00 Longform Podcast #533: Hua Hsu (May 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mona Chalabi is a writer and illustrator whose work has appeared in The New York Times, The New Yorker, and The Guardian, where she is the data editor. Her New York Times Magazine piece “9 Ways to Imagine Jeff Bezos’ Wealth” won this year’s Pulitzer Prize for Illustrated Reporting. “I kind of think of protest as just saying what you believe. And sometimes, it’s considered protest because it’s outside of the institutions of power. So you’re saying, Hey, Palestinians deserve human rights, and that’s considered a form of protest, right? I want the work to change things and I think I’m quite unapologetic about that, and most journalists are like No no no no no, we’re just reporting the world, we’re just reporting things as we see it. There’s no desire for change. I think that is so messed up. This idea that your work has no impact in the world is incorrect. You can’t wash yourself of the consequences of the work, you have to be considering the consequences while you’re doing it.” Show notes: monachalabi.com Chalabi on Instagram Chalabi's Guardian archive 1:00 "9 Ways to Imagine Jeff Bezos' Wealth" (New York Times Magazine • Apr 2022) 1:00 "How Does the Reality TV Show Cops Stack Up with Real-Life Crime Figures?" (The Guardian • May 2019) 6:00 "Striving For Justice: Lowkey in Conversation with Mona Chalabi" (GQ • Jun 2023) 8:30 "NY Times Writers Jazmine Hughes & Jamie Keiles Resign After Signing Letter Against Israeli War on Gaza" (Democracy Now! • Nov 2023) 8:30 Samira Nasr on Instagram 8:30 "Inside MSNBC’s Middle East Conflict" (Max Tani • Semafor • Oct 2023) 16:00 "Mentions of Israeli and Palestinian Deaths in The New York Times" (Instagram • Oct 2023) 18:00 "Circumcision Rates" (Instagram • Oct 2025) 21:00 New America Fellow 21:00 Emerson Collective 21:00 "The Gray-Green Divide" (Brooklyn Museum • Jun-Dec 2022) 21:00 "Am I Normal? with Mona Chalabi" (TED Audio Collective) 54:00 Muntadhar al-Zaidi 54:00 Longform Podcast #276: Azmat Khan 54:00 Yousur Al-Hlou's New York Times archive 54:00 Jazmine Hughes' New York Times archive 54:00 “Regarding the Pain of Others” (Marty Peretz • The New Republic • 1996) 54:00 Longform Podcast #553: Clare Malone Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adam Grant is an organizational psychologist, author, and host of the podcasts Work Life and Re: Thinking. His new book is Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things. “If you only focus on your own interest, you tend to develop novel ideas, but not necessarily useful ideas. And so for me, the audience is a filter. … I might have 30 ideas for a book. Let me hone in on the four or five that also might be relevant to other people. The goal there is to make a contribution.” Show notes: adamgrant.net Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success (Penguin • 2014) Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World (Penguin • 2017) Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things (Viking • 2023) Work Life with Adam Grant (TED Audio Collective) Re: Thinking with Adam Grant (TED Audio Collective) Grant's New York Times archive 17:00 "The Necessity of Others is The Mother of Invention: Intrinsic and Prosocial Motivations, Perspective Taking, and Creativity" (Adam Grant and James Berry • Academy of Management • Nov 2017) 22:00 "It's Not the Ideas You Create, It's Which Ones You Choose" (Leigh Buchanan • Inc. • Feb 2016) 40:00 Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know (Viking • 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jesse David Fox covers comedy for Vulture, where he hosts the podcast Good One. His new book is Comedy Book: How Comedy Conquered Culture—and the Magic That Makes It Work. “There’s a complete lack of anyone who’s ever written about comedy seriously compared to any other art form. There’s just nothing. … So the challenge was, how do you start a conversation that no one has been participating in?” Show notes: @JesseDavidFox Fox’s Vulture archive 3:00 Jason Zinoman’s New York Times archive 5:00 “What Is the Best Adam Sandler Movie?” (Vulture • April 2023) 6:00 Kathryn VanArendonk’s Vulture archive 8:00 “A Note About Splitsider” (Megh Wright• Vulture • Mar 2018) 11:00 “Jerry Seinfeld at Vulture Festival 2015” (Vulture • June 2015) 12:00 WTF with Marc Maron Podcast (Marc Maron • WTF • 2009) 14:00 “Jen Kirkman Turned Catcalling Into One of the Best Street Harassment Jokes Ever” (Vulture • April 2017) 23:00 “An Appreciation of the Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart” (Ramsey Ess • Vulture • Mar 2018) 23:00 “Maria Bamford Wants to Tell You How Much Money She Makes” (Vulture • Oct 2017) 23:00 “How Funny Does Comedy Need to Be?” (Vulture • Sep 2018) 23:00 “Michelle Wolf on Correspondents Dinner, Social Media” (Vulture • Mar 2020) 23:00 “Disgust is Tom Segura’s Love Language” (Vulture • Sept 2022) 23:00 “The Story Behind Bert Kreischer’s ‘Machine’ Joke” (Vulture • May 2023) 23:00 “Katt Williams Explains Jacksonville Florida” (Katt Williams • Netflix • Jan 2020) 36:00 “How the Internet and a New Generation of Superfans Helped Create the Second Comedy Boom” (Vulture • Mar 2015) 37:00 Las Culturistas (Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang • iHeartRadio • 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Evan Hughes is a journalist whose work has appeared in The New York Times Magazine, GQ, The Atlantic, The Atavist and many others. His book, just out in paperback, is Pain Hustlers: Crime and Punishment at an Opioid Startup. “It should be called slow-form journalism…. It is heavily edited. It’s heavily fact checked. And chances are, you’re not going to be the first. Maybe you’re going to be first to reveal some piece of it. I have made peace with like, I’m not the scoop guy. I’m the person who comes in and I’m good at telling the story in a thorough and deep way.” Show notes: evanhughes.co Pain Hustlers: Crime and Punishment at an Opioid Startup (Anchor • 2023) 03:00 "Longform Podcast #503: Evan Osnos" (Longform Podcast • Sep 2022) 03:00 "The Trials of White Boy Rick" (Atavist • Sep 2014) 04:00 "The Shocking True Tale of the Mad Genius Who Invented Sea-Monkeys" (The Awl • Jun 2011) 06:00 "Just Kids" (New York Magazine • Oct 2011) 07:00 Literary Brooklyn: The Writers of Brooklyn and the Story of American City Life (Holt • 2011) 12:00 "The Fugitive, His Dead Wife, and the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory That Explains Everything" (GQ • Jun 2016) 20:00 "Trial by Fire" (David Grann • New Yorker • Aug 2009) 25:00 Opioids, Inc. (Frontline • 2021) 25:00 The Crime of the Century (HBO • 2021) 47:00 Pain Hustlers (Netflix • 2023) 54:00 White Boy Rick (LBI Productions • 2018) 60:00 Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game (Michael Lewis • W.W. Norton • 2004) 60:00 Moneyball (Columbia Pictures • 2011) 61:00 "The Man Who Moves Markets" (Atlantic • Mar 2023) 63:00 "Bringing Down the Hachette" (Slate • May 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yepoka Yeebo has written for The Guardian, Bloomberg Businessweek, and Quartz. Her new book is Anansi’s Gold: The Man Who Looted the West, Outfoxed Washington, and Swindled the World. “Initially it was like, Why are you writing about a con man? He makes Ghana look bad. Nobody needs another crime story about an African person. I found that irritating, because isn't the whole point of being a complete person, complete people, is we contain multitudes? We too can be epic, world-leading con men! Also, it's a great story. Everybody should revel in the insanity of what happened.” Show notes: @yepoka yepokayeebo.com Yeebo on Longform Anansi’s Gold: The Man Who Looted the West, Outfoxed Washington, and Swindled the World 16:00 “The True Story of the Fake U.S. Embassy in Ghana” (The Guardian • Nov 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Clare Malone is a staff writer for The New Yorker. Her latest article is ”Hasan Minhaj’s ‘Emotional Truths.’” “You're going to work a lot of hours if you want to be successful, and you're probably not going to make as much money as your dumb friend from college does. You're choosing it for a different reason, but I do think we have to make efforts to have the [journalism] industry be a middle-class profession.” Show notes: Malone's New Yorker archive Malone's FiveThirtyEight archive 03:00 "CNN’s New White Knight" (New Yorker • Sep 2023) 08:00 "Ben Smith Can’t Say What His New Media Venture Is" (New Yorker • Jan 2022) 09:00 "How Trump Changed America" (FiveThirtyEight • Nov 2020) 18:00 Just Like Us (The Ringer • 2022) 25:00 Semafor (Newsletter) 25:00 Confider (Lachlan Cartwright • Daily Beast) 27:00 "Inside the Meltdown at CNN" (Tim Alberta • Atlantic • Jun 2023) 27:00 "What the Shakeup at CNN Says About the Future of Cable News" (New Yorker • Jun 2023) 28:00 "David Zaslav, Hollywood Antihero" (New Yorker • Aug 2023) 37:00 "Ann Selzer Is the Best Pollster in American Politics" (FiveThirtyEight • Jan 2016) 39:00 Politics Podcast (FiveThirtyEight) 48:00 The Ankler (Newsletter) 49:00 "The E-Mail Newsletter for the Mogul Set" (New Yorker • Dec 2022) 57:00 ”Hasan Minhaj’s ‘Emotional Truths’” (New Yorker • Sep 2023) 58:00 Patriot Act (Hasan Minhaj • Netflix • 2020) 61:00 "Hasan Minhaj Eyed For ‘Daily Show’ Host" (Brian Steinberg • Variety • Aug 2023) 65:00 "Episode 1273 - Hasan Minhaj" (WTF with Marc Maron • Oct 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Azam Ahmed is an international investigative correspondent for The New York Times. His new book is Fear Is Just a Word: A Missing Daughter, a Violent Cartel, and a Mother's Quest for Vengeance. “I think the fundamental question I always ask when I go into a new place, whether I’m covering currencies, or hedge funds, or geopolitics in Afghanistan, or the war—it’s what does this mean to the world right now? What does the world need to know and how does it fit into that space?” Show notes: @azamsahmed Ahmed on Longform Ahmed’s New York Times archive 20:00 “For Afghan Officials, Prospect of Death Comes with Territory” (New York Times • Dec 2012) 21:00 “A Day’s Toil in the Suicide Bombers’ Graveyard” (New York Times • Aug 2013) 21:00 “2 Afghan Sisters, Swept Up in a Suicide Wave” (New York Times • March 2013) 25:00 “She Stalked Her Daughter’s Killers Across Mexico, One by One” (New York Times • Dec 2020) 46:00 “Using Texts as Lures, Government Spyware Targets Mexican Journalists and Their Families” (New York Times • June 2017) 48:00 “In Mexico, ‘It’s Easy to Kill a Journalist’” (New York Times • April 2017) 54:00 “Kill, or Be Killed: Latin America’s Homicide Crisis” (New York Times • May 2019–Feb 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kashmir Hill is a tech reporter for The New York Times. Her new book is Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It. “I often do feel like what my work is doing is preparing people for the way the world is going to change. With something like facial recognition technology, that's really important because if the world is changing such that every photo of you taken that's uploaded is going to be findable, it's going to change the decisions that you make.” Show notes: kashmirhill.com Hill on Longform Hill's New York Times archive Hill's Gizmodo archive Hill's Forbes archive 01:00 "Life Without the Tech Giants" (Gizmodo • Jan 2019) 01:00 "Living On Bitcoin for a Week: The Journey Begins" (Forbes • May 2013) 01:00 "Your Face Is Not Your Own" (New York Times • Mar 2021) 01:00 Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It (Random House • 2023) 03:00 "Writer Evan Ratliff Tried to Vanish: Here’s What Happened" (Wired • Nov 2009) 11:00 Hill's Above the Law archive 16:00 Immersion: A Writer’s Guide to Going Deep (Ted Conover • University of Chicago Press • 2016) 19:00 "The House That Spied on Me" (Gizmodo • Feb 2018) 23:00 "I Used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS Tracker to Watch My Husband’s Every Move" (New York Times • Feb 2022) 25:00 "Bing’s A.I. Chat: ‘I Want to Be Alive’" (Kevin Roose • New York Times • Feb 2023) 26:00 "What Our Reporter Learned Delivering Burritos to New Yorkers" (Andy Newman • New York Times • July 2019) 27:00 "A Vast Web of Vengeance" (New York Times • Jun 2023) 27:00 "The Slander Industry" (Aaron Krolik and Kashmir Hill • New York Times • Apr 2021) 55:00 Rashomon (Akira Kurosawa • 1950) 59:00 "Eight Months Pregnant and Arrested After False Facial Recognition Match" (New York Times • Aug 2023) 68:00 "Clearview’s Facial Recognition App Has Been Used By The Justice Department, ICE, Macy’s, Walmart, And The NBA" (Ryan Mac, Caroline Haskins, Logan McDonald • Buzzfeed • Feb 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zeke Faux is an investigative reporter for Bloomberg. His new book is Number Go Up: Inside Crypto’s Wild Rise and Staggering Fall. “I have a rule of thumb, which is that if somebody did one scam, they probably did another scam. If they did one scam in the past and now they have a new thing, odds are good it’s also a scam. That’s not always true, but that was definitely borne out sometimes in crypto-world.” Show notes: @ZekeFaux zekefaux.com Faux on Longform Faux’s Bloomberg archive 06:00 “Secret Network Connects Harvard Money to Payday Loans” (Bloomberg • Sept 2014) 08:00 “Anyone Seen Tether’s Billions?” (Bloomberg • Oct 2021) 21:00 Matt Levine’s Bloomberg archive 22:00 “‘Don’t You Remember Me?’ The Crypto Hell on the Other Side of a Spam Text” (Bloomberg • Aug 2023) 32:00 “The Rise of FTX, and Sam Bankman-Fried, Was a Great Story. Its Implosion Is Even Better.” (Alexandra Alter • New York Times • May 2023) 58:00 The Mastermind (Evan Ratliff • Penguin Random House • 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reginald Dwayne Betts is a poet, lawyer, and founder of the nonprofit Freedom Reads. His New York Times Magazine article "Could an Ex-Convict Become an Attorney? I Intended to Find Out" won the National Magazine Award. His new podcast is Almost There. “I felt like I had to own becoming something and intuitively understood that if I didn't lay claim to desiring to be something, that it would be too many other forces that would be pulling on me to dictate that I become something else. … When you say you're a writer, if you know nothing else, then you know that you read. You pay attention to the world. … And prison became the metaphor by which I understood the world and poetry became the medium by which I understood what it meant to write about the world and what it meant to take seriously the responsibility to write about the world that I knew.” Show notes: dwaynebetts.com freedomreads.org 01:00 Almost There with Dwayne Betts (Emerson Collective) 05:00 The Black Poets (Dudley Randall • Bantam • 1985) 10:00 Married… with Children (Michael G. Moye and Ron Leavitt • Fox • 1987-1997) 21:00 "Scientists and Engineers" (Killer Mike • Michael • 2023) 24:00 "Could an Ex-Convict Become an Attorney? I Intended to Find Out" (New York Times Magazine • Oct 2018) 26:00 "The Language of Birds" (Anselm Kiefer • 2018) 28:00 A Question of Freedom: A Memoir of Learning, Survival, and Coming of Age in Prison (Avery • 2010) 31:00 Felon: An American Washi Tale 32:00 "Kamala Harris, Mass Incarceration and Me" (New York Times Magazine • Oct 2020) 33:00 Shahid Reads His Own Palm (Alice James Books • 2010) 33:00 Bastards of the Reagan Era (Four Way Books • 2015) 33:00 Felon (Norton • 2019) 33:00 Redaction: A Project by Titus Kaphar and Reginald Dwayne Betts (MoMA PS1 • 2019) 33:00 Redaction (Titus Kaphar and Reginald Dwayne Betts • Norton • 2023) 44:00 Creative Nonfiction Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Audie Cornish, the former host NPR’s All Things Considered, is an anchor and correspondent for CNN. Her podcast is The Assignment. “I think there is journalism inherent in an interview. Like the interview itself should be considered a piece of journalism. It isn't always. Sometimes the vibe is that it’s a little window dressing or that it's personality driven and I don't subscribe to that. I think that it has its own journalism. It's my journalism.” Show notes: @AudieCornish Cornish's NPR archive 01:00 The Assignment (CNN Audio • 2022) 25:00 "Letters: 'Music Curator' Diplo" (NPR • Jun 2012) 36:00 Cornish’s Twitter thread (Jan 2022) 43:00 Serial (Serial Productions) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Susan Burton is an editor at This American Life, the author of the memoir Empty, and the host of the podcast The Retrievals. “I know I have much more anger than I reveal, and I don’t think that’s uncommon. Especially for women. There’s been a lot of attention to that in recent years—the anger of women, how it’s expressed and not expressed. But I think that among the things I’ve stifled for years are just my true feelings, and I’ve always wanted to be close to people and to be intimate with people, and have often felt that I have trouble making myself known or being known or being understood. And so...it felt good to be known.” Show notes: @burtonsusan susanburton.net Burton on Longform Burton’s This American Life archive 01:00 “In The Event of an Emergency, Put Your Sister in an Upright Position” (Ira Glass • This American Life • Jan 2001) 05:00 Empty (Random House • 2020) 06:00 “Secrets” (This American Life • Feb 2021) 39:00 “Terry Gross and the Art of Opening Up” (New York Times • Oct 2015) 42:00 “From 'Empty' To 'Satisfied': Author Traces A Hunger That Food Can't Fix” (Terry Gross • NPR • June 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jamie Loftus is a comedian, writer, and podcaster. Her new book is Raw Dog: The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. “Comedy has been super helpful to me because it's so based on failing every night sometimes that I wasn't afraid of failure in the same way because it's just like, Well, that's going to happen to me at some point this week. Why not in this format?” Show notes: jamieloftus.xyz 00:00 Lolita Podcast (iHeartRadio • 2020-21) 01:00 Aack Cast! (iHeartRadio • 2021) 01:00 My Year in Mensa (iHeartRadio • 2020) 01:00 Ghost Church (iHeartRadio • 2022) 01:00 Raw Dog: The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs (Forge Books • 2023) 10:00 Sarah Marshall on Longform Podcast 14:00 "Dolores Onstage" (iHeartRadio • Dec 2020) 19:00 The Bechdel Cast (Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus • iHeartRadio) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Javier Zamora is the author of Unaccompanied, a poetry collection, and Solito, a memoir. “There was something that I felt eating away at me, which made me a very angry and volatile teenager. And I think I was an angry teenager because I had this trauma that nobody around me could talk about, and that I didn't have the right therapist to help me unpack. So the cheapest thing that I had was poetry.” Show notes: @jzsalvipoet javierzamora.net 03:00 “Reading Neruda and Learning to Heal My Diasporic Wounds” (Lit Hub • April 2019) 18:00 Krik? Krak! (Edwidge Danticat • Soho Press • 2015) 31:00 franciscocantu.us 37:00 The Beast: Riding the Rails and Dodging Narcos on the Migrant Trail (Óscar Martínez • Verso Books • 2013) 42:00 “Zamora: It’s time for the Pulitzer Prize for literature to accept noncitizens” (Los Angeles Times • July 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennifer Senior is a staff writer for The Atlantic. Her article ”What Bobby McIlvaine Left Behind” won the 2022 Pulitzer Prize for Feature Writing. Her most recent article is ”The Ones We Sent Away.” “I'm at the point where I'm only thinking about the big questions and the difficulty of being a human as what matter most. That's what I want to keep focusing on. Our common frailties, our common bonds, our common difficulties. Because clearly we are not going to bond politically as a nation, right? … But we can bond over our kids with disabilities. About the fact that we grieve, that we love, that we lose people. That we have friends that we love, friends that we hate. We have friendships that we miss, we have friendships that we can't live without.” Show notes: jennifersenior.net Jennifer Senior on Longform Jennifer Senior on Longform Podcast 00:00 "What Bobby McIlvaine Left Behind" (Atlantic • Aug 2021) 01:00 On Grief (Atlantic Editions • 2023) 01:00 "The Ones We Sent Away" (Atlantic • Aug 2023) 02:00 All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood (Ecco • 2014) 03:00 The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma (Bessel Van Der Kolk • Penguin • 2015) 03:00 Senior's New York Magazine archive 04:00 Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End (Atul Gawande • Picador • 2017) 05:00 Senior's New York Times archive 12:00 Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life (Annette Lareau • University of California Press • 2011) 17:00 Heavyweight (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet) 18:00 "#25 Becky and Jo" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Oct 2019) 18:00 "#2 Gregor" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Sep 2016) 28:00 "It’s Your Friends Who Break Your Heart" (Atlantic • Feb 2022) 42:00 Patient H.M. (Luke Dittrich • Random House • 2017) 47:00 "What Not to Ask Me About My Long COVID" (Atlantic • Feb 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Casey Newton writes the Platformer newsletter. Kevin Roose is a technology columnist for The New York Times. Together they co-host the podcast Hard Fork. CN: “People actually like to be a little bit confused. They like listening to things where people are talking about things they don’t quite understand, which was very counterintuitive to me. I think a lot of editor-types would scoff at, but I’ve come around.” KR: “We can revisit subjects and we do. We can change our minds. Print pieces feel so permanent, they feel so definitive. Podcasts, we can just sort of say, ‘I don't know what to make of this, ask me again in a month.’” Show notes: @CaseyNewton @kevinroose cnewton.org kevinroose.com Newton on Longform Roose on Longform Longorm Podcast #337: Casey Newton Longform Podcast #81: Kevin Roose Newton and Roose’s Hard Fork archive Newton’s Platformer archive Roose’s New York Times archive 3:00 Newton’s Verge archive 7:00 “Elon’s X Machina, Crypto Orbs, and a Visit to Google’s Robot Lab” (Newton and Roose • New York Times • July 2023) 12:00 Huberman Lab (Andrew Huberman • Huberman Lab • 2023) 14:00 Rabbit Hole (Roose • New York Times • 2020) 25:00 Futureproof (Roose • Random House • 2022) 29:00 “ChatGPT Transforms a Classroom and Is ‘M3GAN’ Real?” (Newton and Roose • New York Times • Jan 2023) 29:00 “Dario Amodei, C.E.O. of Anthropic, on the Paradoxes of A.I. Safety and Netflix’s ‘Deep Fake Love Story’” (Newton and Roose • New York Times • July 2023) 31:00 “Google C.E.O. Sundar Pichai on Bard, A.I. ‘Whiplash’ and Competing with ChatGPT” (Newton and Roose • New York Times • March 2023) 31:00 “Mr. Altman Goes to Washington and Casey Goes on This American Life” (Newton and Roose • New York Times • May 2023) 44:00 “Aided by A.I. Language Models, Google’s Robots Are Getting Smart” (Roose • New York Times • July 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jeff Goodell is a climate change writer for Rolling Stone and the author of seven books. His new book is The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet. “I would not have said this even five years ago, but I have really come to see this now as a crime story. This is a kind of looting of the atmosphere of the earth, siphoning off resources and grossly profiting off of that at the expense of many other people—billions of people—on this planet. And I understand that’s a big thing to say, but I think it’s just pretty obviously true. … I don’t mean that personally that each one of them personally is a criminal. We are all complicit in this.” Show notes: @jeffgoodell jeffgoodellwriter.com Goodell on Longform Goodell’s Rolling Stone archive 11:00 “Who’s a Hero Now?” (New York Times Magazine • July 2003) 15:00 The Water Will Come (Back Bay Books • 2018) 15:00 Big Coal (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt • 2006) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Peter Shamshiri is a lawyer and co-host of the podcast 5-4. “Because of the nature of law, I think a lot of journalists find it hard to take a position—or to sort of tip their hand about what they actually believe—because so much of the discourse around how law should operate is about neutrality and the general perspective that the law is non-partisan, non-ideological. I think the result is media coverage that is particularly lacking in those regards. And that's where we swoop in.” Show notes: @The_Law_Boy 5-4 (Prologue Projects) 02:00 "Writer Evan Ratliff Tried to Vanish: Here's What Happened" (Evan Ratliff • Wired • Nov 2009) 04:00 Mic Dicta 14:00 "Bush v. Gore" (Prologue Projects • Feb 2020) 14:00 "Emergency Episode: RNC v. DNC" (Prologue Projects • Apr 2020) 15:00 "Emergency Episode: Roe Is Overturned" (Prologue Projects • Jun 2022) 16:00 "The Thomas/Crow Affair" (Prologue Projects • Apr 2023) 25:00 "The Hosts of ‘5-4’ Never Trusted the Supreme Court" (Reggie Ugwu • New York Times • Jul 2022) 37:00 Slow Burn (Prologue Projects) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donovan X. Ramsey is a journalist and author of the new book When Crack Was King: A People’s History of a Misunderstood Era. “I've only ever wanted to write about Black people—and that includes the elements of our lives that are difficult. I’ve always prided myself on being able to metabolize that information and not really be harmed by it. And this book really taught me that writing and processing is not just something that you do in your head. That the information does go through you as you're trying to make sense of it. And it's not happening to you, right? It's not like a direct form of PTSD that you have, but you do experience some trauma when you open up your imagination in that way.” Show notes: @donovanxramsey donovanxramsey.com Ramsey on Longform Podcast When Crack Was King: A People’s History of a Misunderstood Era (One World • 2023) 02:00 Ramsey's Los Angeles Times archive 05:00 The Warmth of Other Suns (Isabel Wilkerson • Vintage • 2011) 35:00 "America’s ‘crack’ plague has roots in Nicaragua war" (Gary Webb • San Jose Mercury News • Aug 1996) 35:00 "Shadowy origins of ‘crack’ epidemic" (Gary Webb • San Jose Mercury News • Aug 1996) 35:00 "War on drugs has unequal impact on black Americans" (Gary Webb • San Jose Mercury News • Aug 1996) 45:00 The 1619 Project (Nikole Hannah-Jones et al. • New York Times • 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Grann is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His latest book is The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder. “I became very haunted by the stories that [nations] don't tell. Nations and empires preserve their powers not only by the stories they tell, but also by the stories they leave out. … Early in my career, if I came across the silences in a story, I might not have highlighted them, because I thought, Well, there's nothing to tell there. And now I try to let the silences speak.” Show notes: @DavidGrann davidgrann.com Grann on Longform Grann on Longform Podcast #3 Grann on Longform Podcast #241 Grann on Longform Podcast #329 Grann's New Yorker archive 01:00 The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder (Doubleday • 2023) 02:00 Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI (Doubleday • 2017) 28:00 The White Darkness (Doubleday • 2018) 61:00 Killers of the Flower Moon (Martin Scorsese • Appian Way, Apple Studios • 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heidi Blake is a writer for The New Yorker and the author of two books, From Russia with Blood: The Kremlin's Ruthless Assassination Program and Vladimir Putin's Secret War on the West and The Ugly Game: The Corruption of FIFA and the Qatari Plot to Buy the World Cup, with Jonathan Calvert. Her latest article is “The Fugitive Princess of Dubai.” “I definitely feel as an investigative reporter that I feel very driven by my own capacity for shock and outrage and genuinely feeling like this is unbelievable. And that kind of makes me want to keep digging. And once I stop feeling that on any given topic, I lose interest. And so I’ve always been a generalist, and I just kind of rove from one topic to the next. I’m always finding myself in new territory where I know absolutely nothing about the thing I’m starting to dig into and have to try and play catch up and get my head around something new.” Show notes: @heidiblake 24:00 From Russia with Blood (Mulholland Books • 2020) 24:00 Once Upon a Time in Londongrad (Buzzfeed Studios • 2022) 33:00 “David Cameron’s communication director in tax fraud investigation” (The Daily Telegraph • May 2011) 37:00 The Ugly Game (Blake and Jonathan Calvert • Scribner • 2017) 40:00 Blake's Buzzfeed News archive 42:00 “This Tory Donor Was Secretly Filmed Dropping Cash-Stuffed Rucksacks At Post Offices” (Blake, Michael Gillard, Tom Warren, Jane Bradley, and Richard Holmes • Buzzfeed News • Oct 2015) 45:00 “Friends of the Court” (Justin Elliott, Joshua Kaplan, and Alex Mierjeski • ProPublica • 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mitchell Prothero covers intelligence and crime for Vice News. His new podcast with Project Brazen is Gateway: Cocaine, Murder, and Dirty Money in Europe. “I’m really interested in transnational networks—crime, intelligence. I’m fascinated by the gray. Like, when is something legal and when is something illegal? One thing with this Gateway project [was that] nobody could ever tell me that moment where money goes from absolutely being illegal to being legal.” Show notes: @mitchprothero Prothero on Longform Prothero’s Vice archive 01:00 “Paintballing with Hezbollah” (Vice • March 2012) 01:00 “Inside the World of ISIS Investigations in Europe” (Buzzfeed News • Aug 2016) 36:00 “The Wild Story of the Psychic, the Sheikh and the $90 Million Diamond Heist” (Vice • June 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brittany Luse is the host of NPR’s It’s Been a Minute. “One of the things I love about this job is everything is practice. I love it. It's like if a show is great and everyone loves it, you gotta put on another one. You just gotta do it again. And if the show didn't quite do what you'd hoped or set out to do in your mind and in your heart, you gotta do another one. I just love it. You can never feel too good and you can never feel too bad.” Show notes: @bmluse 02:00 "#497: Sam Sanders" (Longform Podcast • Aug 2022) 02:00 "Kale-flavored Cheez-Its" (Sampler • Gimlet • Jun 2016) 03:00 It’s Been a Minute (NPR) 04:00 "Brittany goes to 'Couples Therapy;' Plus, why Hollywood might strike" (It’s Been a Minute • NPR • Apr 2023) 04:00 "Tina Turner's happy ending" (It’s Been a Minute • NPR • May 2023) 05:00 "Relationship Goals" (Sampler • Gimlet • Mar 2016) 12:00 Roald Dahl’s Matilda the Musical (Working Title Films • 2022) 24:00 The Nod (Gimlet) 25:00 "Whole Hog" (The Nod • Gimlet • Sep 2017) 27:00 "The Hairstons Part 1: Snakes on a Plantation" (The Nod • Gimlet • Dec 2017) 27:00 "The Hairstons Part 1: Diary of a Mad Black Cousin" (The Nod • Gimlet • Dec 2017) 29:00 "Hair, Laid" (The Nod • Gimlet • May 2018) 29:00 "I Want That Purple Stuff" (The Nod • Gimlet • Aug 2017) 29:00 "Big Freedia’s Bounce" (The Nod • Gimlet • Sep 2020) 29:00 "How to Show Up" (The Nod • Gimlet • Jun 2019) 32:00 For Colored Nerds (Eric Eddings and Brittany Luse) 42:00 "Quibi Is Shutting Down Barely Six Months After Going Live" (Benjamin Mullin, Joe Flint, Maureen Farrell • Wall Street Journal • Oct 2020) 44:00 "Why Am I Watching Married At First Sight Instead of Planning My Wedding?" (Harper’s Bazaar • May 2021) 46:00 "The Hard-To-Take But Smart Relationship Advice Beyoncé Has Given Us" (Refinery29 • Apr 2016) 49:00 "The Fiction of the Color Line" (Vulture • Jan 2021) 53:00 "Death of Adulthood" (For Colored Nerds • 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brady Dale covers cryptocurrency for Axios. His new book is SBF: How The FTX Bankruptcy Unwound Crypto's Very Bad Good Guy. “I am a fast writer. I’ve always been fast. I just sat down and did the math on it and I was like, If I can write 1,500 words a day, I can write this book. And I can do that.” Show notes: @BradyDale bradydale.com Dale's Axios archive 00:00 SBF: How The FTX Bankruptcy Unwound Crypto's Very Bad Good Guy (Wiley • 2023) 09:00 Dale's Observer archive 09:00 Dale's CoinDesk archive 14:00 Money: The True Story of a Made-Up Thing (Jacob Goldstein • Hachette • 2020) 16:00 Coin Talk (Aaron Lammer and Jay Caspian Kang) 16:00 Techmeme Ride Home (Ride Home Media) 24:00 "#127: Sam Bankman-Fried on taking a high-risk approach to crypto and doing good" (80,000 Hours • Apr 2022) 28:00 Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon (Michael Lewis • Norton • 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lisa Belkin is a journalist and the author of four books. Her latest is Genealogy of a Murder: Four Generations, Three Families, One Fateful Night. “I didn’t experience it as luck. It—and this is going to be a little woo woo—but it really felt like these people had been sitting there for 100 years saying, Well, it took you long enough, because everything just fit together. I didn’t have to manipulate anything.” Show notes: @lisabelkin lisabelkin.com Lisa Belkin on Longform Belkin’s New York Times archive Belkin’s Yahoo News archive Belkin’s HuffPost archive 02:00 “The Odds of That” (The New York Times Magazine • Aug 2002) 09:00 Show Me a Hero (Hachette Book Group • 1999) 09:00 Show Me a Hero (David Simon • HBO • 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amy Chozick is an author, journalist, executive producer, and showrunner. Her latest feature for The New York Times is ”Liz Holmes Wants You to Forget About Elizabeth.” “The subject thought it was a hit job. Twitter thought it was a puff piece. I don’t know, guys. … I want to explain to people what it feels like to be around someone who you know you shouldn’t believe, but you can’t help believing them because this is what their personality is like when you’re with them.” Show notes: @amychozick amychozick.com Chozick on Longform Chozick's New York Times archive 00:00 "Liz Holmes Wants You to Forget About Elizabeth" (New York Times • May 2023) 02:00 The Dropout (ABC Audio • 2019) 06:00 "You Know the Lorena Bobbitt Story. But Not All of It." (New York Times • Jan 2019) 24:00 Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup (John Carreyou • Vintage • 2020) 49:00 The Dropout (Hulu • 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tracy Kidder is the author of eleven books, including The Soul of a New Machine and Mountains Beyond Mountains. His latest is Rough Sleepers. “I do think it’s an interesting challenge to try to write about virtue, with all that’s always mixed with it. Some writers have said it’s virtually impossible … but it’s not impossible. … People who are really trying, struggling against the odds, I think they’re worth writing about.” Show notes: tracykidder.com Kidder on Longform Kidder’s Atlantic archive 01:00 “‘You Have to Learn to Listen’: How a Doctor Cares for Boston’s Homeless” (The New York Times • Jan 2023) 06:00 “The Good Doctor” (New Yorker • July 2000) 06:00 Mountains Beyond Mountains (Random House • 2009) 19:00 Good Prose (Kidder and Richard Todd • Random House • 2013) 21:00 House (Houghton Mifflin • 1985) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hua Hsu is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His book Stay True won the 2023 Pulitzer Prize for memoir. “I've worked as a journalist … for quite a while. … But this [book] was the thing that was always in the back of my mind. Like, this was the thing that a lot of that was in service of. Just becoming better at describing a song or describing the look of someone's face—these were all things that I implicitly understood as skills I needed to acquire. ... It is sort of an origin story for why I got so obsessive about writing.” Show notes: @huahsu byhuahsu.com Hsu on Longform Hsu on Longform Podcast Hsu's New Yorker archive 03:00 A Floating Chinaman: Fantasy and Failure Across the Pacific (Harvard University Press • 2016) 30:00 "Randall Park Breaks Out of Character" (New Yorker • Feb 2023) 33:00 Shortcomings (Adrian Tomine • Drawn & Quarterly • 2007) 39:00 "What Conversation Can Do For Us" (New Yorker • Mar 2023) 39:00 "J. Crew and the Paradoxes of Prep" (New Yorker • Mar 2023) 39:00 "The Many Afterlives of Vincent Chin" (New Yorker • Jun 2022) 39:00 "How Wayne Wang Faces Failure" (New Yorker • Jun 2022) 39:00 "Maxine Hong Kingston’s Genre-Defying Life and Work" (New Yorker • Jun 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kevin Kelly is one of the founding editors of Wired, where his current title is Senior Maverick. His new book is Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I'd Known Earlier. “I never wrote a book because I wanted to do a good deed. I just wanted to tell a good story.” Show notes: @kevin2kelly kk.org Kelly on Longform Longform Podcast #376: Kevin Kelly Kelly’s Wired Magazine archive 13:00 The Inevitable (Penguin Books • 2017) 14:00 Vanishing Asia (Publishers Group West • 2021) 22:00 @MrBeast on TikTok 26:00 @KevinKelly on YouTube 31:00 @PessimistsArc on Twitter 39:00 “John Carmack: Doom, Quake, VR, AGI, Programming, Video Games, and Rockets” (Lex Fridman • Lex Fridman Podcast • Aug 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Terrence McCoy is The Washington Post's Rio de Janeiro Bureau Chief. He won the George Polk award for his series "The Amazon, Undone" on the illegal and often violent exploitation of the rainforest. “When I first got to Brazil, the Amazon was an arena of mystique. But after you spend a fair amount of time in the Amazon, it becomes quite clear what the struggle is—and how human that struggle is.” This is the last in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lynsey Addario is a photojournalist for The New York Times and National Geographic. She won the George Polk award for her photograph of the bodies of a woman and her two children alongside a friend who lay dying moments after a mortar struck them as they sought to flee Ukraine. "If I have time to compose a photo—even if it's of a horrific topic—I will always try to make the most beautiful photograph because I want people to look. I want people to ask questions, to be engaged, to pay attention. And often, that does mean the intersection of beauty and horror." This is the fourth in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tracy Wang and Nick Baker of CoinDesk, along with their colleague Ian Allison, won the George Polk award for reporting that led to the fall of Sam Bankman-Fried and his cryptocurrency exchange FTX. “Crypto had been kind of a backwater of reporting. It was kind of like nobody took it seriously. People didn’t know if it was a joke and they thought it was all drug dealers and fraudsters. And I was kind of thinking, well, that seems like a great place to be reporting.” This is the third in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lori Hinnant is a reporter for the Associated Press. Along with videojournalist Mstyslav Chernov, photographer Evgeniy Maloletka, and video producer Vasilisa Stepanenko, she won the George Polk Award for war reporting for covering the siege of Mariupol. “It’s really easy when you see raw footage flash by on the television to just see it as war as hell and this is very abstract. These are people with lives that were utterly ruined and they want to tell their stories. I mean, we’re not talking to people who don’t want to talk to us. And when you find out what happened the day their lives were changed, it really changes it.” This is the second in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Theo Baker is the investigations editor at The Stanford Daily. The first college student ever to win a George Polk Award, Baker received a special recognition for uncovering allegations that pioneering research co-authored by Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne, a renowned neuroscientist, was supported in part by manipulated imagery. “It’s useful to intellectualize it because when you actually get going, this is something that keeps me up at night. … It’s the last thing I think about when I go to sleep, and the first thing on my mind when I wake up.” This is the first in a week-long series of conversations with winners of this year's George Polk Awards in Journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Grann is a staff writer for The New Yorker. His new book is The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder. “I became very haunted by the stories that [nations] don't tell. Nations and empires preserve their powers not only by the stories they tell, but also by the stories they leave out. … Early in my career, if I came across the silences in a story, I might not have highlighted them, because I thought, Well, there's nothing to tell there. And now I try to let the silences speak.” Show notes: @DavidGrann davidgrann.com Grann on Longform Grann on Longform Podcast #3 Grann on Longform Podcast #241 Grann on Longform Podcast #329 Grann's New Yorker archive 01:00 The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder (Doubleday • 2023) 02:00 Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI (Doubleday • 2017) 28:00 The White Darkness (Doubleday • 2018) 61:00 Killers of the Flower Moon (Martin Scorsese • Appian Way, Apple Studios • 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vann Newkirk II is a senior editor at The Atlantic and the host of Floodlines: The Story of an Unnatural Disaster. His new podcast is Holy Week: The Story of a Revolution Undone. “I’m often toggling between environmental justice, between the history of race and racial organization in America. And to me, they’re all one story, and I’m trying to tell the story about how the conditions of marginalization in America have made and shaped the present. That’s it. That’s one story.” Show notes: Newkirk II on Longform Newkirk II’s Atlantic archive 04:00 Floodlines (The Atlantic • 2020) 08:00 “The New Coretta Scott King: Emerging From the Legacy” (Jaqueline Trescott • The Washington Post • Jan 1978) 17:00 “I’ve Been to the Mountaintop” transcript (Martin Luther King Jr. • April 1968) 42:00 “The Battle for North Carolina” (The Atlantic • Oct 2016) 43:00 “Puerto Rico’s Environmental Catastrophe” (The Atlantic • Oct 2017) 53:00 “The Case for a Voting-Rights Amendment” (The Atlantic • Feb 2021) 53:00 “The Great Land Robbery” (The Atlantic • Sept 2019) 53:00 “Texas Voter-Fraud Claims Don’t Have to Be True to Achieve Their Goal” (The Atlantic • Feb 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Liz Hoffman, a former The Wall Street Journal reporter, is now the business and finance editor for Semafor. Her new book is Crash Landing: The Inside Story of How the World's Biggest Companies Survived an Economy on the Brink. “I think these systems are hugely important and are wielded by people who are not that accessible. If you can sort of open the aperture a little bit and unpack that and explain to people what’s going on and leave them to sort of, you know, come away with their own conclusions about the morality of the whole thing — that's where I’m most comfortable.” Show notes: @lizrhoffman Hoffman’s Semafor archive Hoffman’s Wall Street Journal archive 30:00 Ben Smith on Longform Podcast 37:00 "Microsoft eyes $10 billion bet on ChatGPT" (Hoffman and Reed Albergotti • Semafor • Jan 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Roxanna Asgarian is the law and courts reporter for the Texas Tribune. Her new book is We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America. “Every once in a while, I'll have someone just freak out at me. And it keeps you honest, in a way, because they don't owe you anything. People don't owe you anything as a journalist.… But everyone reacts to trauma differently and some people really do want to talk about it. And I think the families in this book really wanted to talk about it and it felt like no one was even paying attention to them.” Show notes: @strawburriez Asgarian's Texas Tribune archive We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2023) 12:00 "Child in viral Portland police hug photo missing, 5 family members dead after California cliff crash" (Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Mar 2018) 12:00 "Devonte Hart family crash: Sarah Hart sent alarming 3 a.m. text to friend ... then silence" (Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 13:00 "Devonte Hart family crash: 'It's just devastating,' says aunt who fought for custody" (Roxanna Asgarian and Shane Dixon Kavanaugh • The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 34:00 "Devonte Hart's biological mom: They gave my kids 'to monsters'" (The Oregonian • Apr 2018) 45:00 "Before Children’s Grisly Deaths, A Family Fought for Them and Lost" (The Appeal • Jul 2018) 45:00 "A Mother Grapples with an Adoption that Led to Deaths" (The Appeal • Feb 2019) 45:00 "His siblings were killed by their adoptive mother. He was left in foster care to suffer a more common fate." (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 46:00 Broken Harts (Glamour and HowStuffWorks • 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mary Childs is a co-host of the podcast Planet Money and the author of The Bond King: How One Man Made a Market, Built an Empire, and Lost It All. “I love aberrations. I love when things go wrong. You get a high stress situation, you get all of the manifestations of personality. We're our most selves, if not our best selves, at those times. I like the [stories] that have embedded in them all of those conduits of power and that reveal the greater system.” Show notes: @mdc marychilds.com Planet Money (NPR) The Bond King: How One Man Made a Market, Built an Empire, and Lost It All (Flatiron • 2022) 26:00 American Bonds: How Credit Markets Shaped the Nation (Sarah L. Quinn • Princeton University Press • 2019) 33:00 The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine (Michael Lewis • Norton • 2010) 33:00 The Bond King: Investment Secrets from PIMCO's Bill Gross (Tim Middleton • Wiley • 2004) 43:00 "J. Screwed" (Planet Money • NPR • May 2020) 43:00 "Banque Worms" (Planet Money • NPR • Jul 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Laurel Braitman is a science writer, the author of Animal Madness: Inside Their Minds, and the founder of Writing Medicine. Her new book is What Looks Like Bravery: An Epic Journey Through Loss to Love. “My life was becoming unmanageable, in a way. I was using success in many ways like a drug, and I’d say like an analgesic on the sorts of difficult feelings I hadn’t wanted to face truly since childhood. And we are rewarded in this culture for these kinds of outward forms of success that often have nothing to do with what’s going on inside of you.” Show notes: @LaurelBraitman laurelbraitman.com 01:00 Pop-Up Magazine 01:00 Animal Madness (Simon & Schuester • 2015) 05:00 “The Strange Tale of Echo, the Parrot Who Saw Too Much” (Atlas Obscura • March 2016) 07:00 Braitman’sTED archive 11:00 “Birds & Bees” (Ira Glass • This American Life • May 2015) 32:00 “Duck Syndrome” (Arifeen Rahman • KQED • July 2019) 40:00 Dear Sugar archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sam Fragoso is a writer, filmmaker, and the host of the podcast Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso. “We have an hour together. We may not have another. We're here for a brief moment and then, you know, we die. And I want this thing to be as good as it can be. If if it's anything less than that, I'm just not interested. … And that, to me, is why you keep doing it: because that feeling when you really feel like you've put someone's life on the record in a way that is beautiful and painful and idiosyncratic and triumphant … when it goes well, it's like I lost 20 pounds. I am never a nicer or happier person than immediately after a taping. I'm kind of goofy and silly and delirious and grateful to be doing this. Like, so fucking grateful.” Show notes: @SamFragoso samfragoso.com 00:00 Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso 08:00 "#1: Matthieu Aikins" (Longform Podcast • Aug 2012) 09:00 "#156: Renata Adler" (Longform Podcast • Sep 2015) 09:00 "#187: Elizabeth Gilbert" (Longform Podcast • Apr 2016) 16:00 "Dr. Ashish Jha" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Mar 2020) 17:00 "Noam Chomsky" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Apr 2020) 21:00 "Margaret Atwood" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Mar 2022) 21:00 "David Byrne" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Mar 2022) 21:00 "Questlove" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Feb 2022) 22:00 "Anna Sale" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Apr 2017) 27:00 "David Sedaris" (Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso • Jun 2022) 52:00 WTF with Marc Maron 54:00 "Live Taping: Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso" (On Air Fest • Feb 2023) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eric Lach is a staff writer at The New Yorker, where he covers New York. His latest article is “The Mayor and the Con Man.” “I think about my own trajectory, my little generation of journalists—it was easier to get jobs reporting on national politics than to get a job reporting on something that you could see and go to and that is a really strange thing, the relief and the joy that I feel like when I can just take the subway twenty minutes to go see something interesting for a story or talk to somebody interesting or explore physically and not just feel like I’m making phone calls and Googling. It’s a very different kind of work, but it’s just not something that was super available.” Show notes: @Eric Lach Lach on Longform Lach’s New Yorker archive 08:00 "Eric Adams Says He Has Swagger. What Else Does He Have?" (New Yorker • Jan 2022) 12:00 "What is Eric Adams’s Plan for the Riker Island Crisis?" (New Yorker • Jan 2022) 13:00 "Eric Adams Wants to Compstat New York City" (New Yorker • May 2021) 15:00 “Eric Adams Rakes in $7.7 Million, With Help From Wealthy Donors” (Emma G. Fitzsimmons and Dana Rubinstein • New York Times • Oct 2021) 24:00 "Why Do So Many New York Politicians Want Paperboy Prince to Hit Them in the Face with a Pie?" (New Yorker • June 2021) 26:00 "“Pretty Much a Big Mess”: One Iowa Caucus Precinct’s Drama-Filled Night" (New Yorker • Feb 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Willa Paskin, a former TV critic, is the host of the podcast Decoder Ring. “I want it to feel like a trap door. When you push on a trap door, there’s like a little spring. If it’s the right idea, you start to look into it, and you’re like, Oh, it’s giving a little.” Show notes: @willapaskin 00:00 Paskin's Slate archive 00:00 Paskin's Salon archive 00:00 Paskin's Vulture archive 00:00 Decoder Ring (Slate) 00:00 "The Invention of Hydration" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Apr 2021) 00:00 "Cellino & Barnes, Injury Attorneys, 800-888-8888 " (Decoder Ring • Slate • Dec 2022) 01:00 "The Sideways Effect" (Decoder Ring • Slate • May 2022) 03:00 "Why I Became a TV Critic" (Slate • Jan 2016) 38:00 "The Laff Box" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Apr 2018) 38:00 "The Blue Steak Experiment" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Dec 2020) 40:00 "Chuck E. Cheese Pizza War" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Jun 2019) 40:00 "The Cabbage Patch Kids Riots" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Nov 2020) 42:00 "Selling Out" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Aug 2021) 42:00 "The Sign Painter" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Jun 2021) 53:00 "The Butt and the Bustle" (Decoder Ring • Slate • Nov 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Abraham Josephine Riesman is a journalist who writes often for New York and is the author of True Believer: The Rise and Fall of Stan Lee. Her second book, Ringmaster: Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America, will be published in March. “You’re sure that there’s a level of unreality, but you’re not sure that it’s all fake. There’s stuff there that seems either plausible or sometimes you go ‘there’s no way you could fake that.’ And sometimes you’re right, and a lot of times you’re somewhere in the middle. It’s not as easily distinguished as saying this is fact and this is fiction, this was scripted and this was improvised, whatever. You can’t make those distinctions easily, and one of the things I sort of hope comes out of the book—if it has any impact at all—is to try to get us past this false binary of true and false.” Show notes: @abrahamjoseph abrahamriesman.com Riesman on Longform Riesman’s New York Magazine archive 16:00 "She Was WWE’s First Female Referee. She Says Vince McMahon Raped Her." (New York Magazine • June 2022) 27:00 "There Is No Dignity in This Kind of America" (Jamelle Bouie • New York Times • Feb 2023) 28:00 "My Grandfather the Zionist" (New York Magazine • June 2021) 37:00 "How Los Bros Hernandez Stayed Punk for 40 Years with their Epic Comic-Book Saga, Love and Rockets" (GQ • Nov 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jonah Weiner is a contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine and co-author of the newsletter Blackbird Spyplane. “It's a version of myself. It's a hyperbolic version of myself. And I think it keeps it fun for me. It doesn't feel like a job. Ideally, it keeps it fun for readers. And I think that there actually is this function where X out of 10 people coming to it, their eyes are going to cross and they're going say, I'm out. No thanks. And that's fine, because the Y out of 10 who stick around feel that much more in on something and it just makes it feel like a funky, special place.” Show notes: @jonahweiner jonahweiner.com Weiner on Longform 00:00 Weiner on Longform Podcast 01:00 "Prying Eyes" (New Yorker • Oct 2012) 01:00 Blackbird Spyplane (Jonah Weiner and Erin Wylie • Substack) 06:00 "Don’t Take This Hunk at Face Value" (New York Times • Mar 2011) 11:00 "Michael Mann’s Damaged Men" (New York Times Magazine • Jul 2022) 23:00 "Wonders of Tokyo" (Blackbird Spyplane • Nov 2022) 23:00 "It’s-a me, Tokyo!" (Blackbird Spyplane • Nov 2022) 25:00 "Blackpilled Swag" (Blackbird Spyplane • Jan 2023) 31:00 The Warning with Steve Schmidt (Steve Schmidt • Substack) 33:00 Weiner's Rolling Stone archive 34:00 Racket (Matt Taibbi • Substack) 34:00 Glenn Greenwald (Glenn Greenwald • Substack) 36:00 "Bob Odenkirk’s Long Road to Serious Success" (New York Times Magazine • Feb 2022) 36:00 "Seth Rogan and the Secret to Happiness" (New York Times Magazine • Apr 2021) 37:00 The “Blackbird Spyplane” Interview Archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Delia Cai is the senior vanities correspondent for Vanity Fair and publishes the media newsletter Deez Links. Her debut novel Central Places is out this week. “This was in like, 2011, where I think actual journalists were still trying to figure out ‘Is it gross to be a brand?’ And at least in school, they were all about it. They’re like, ‘You need a brand, you need to think about what your niche is going to be, you need to think about engaging your audience.’ We had to make websites, we had to blog, and of course, all of us being college students, we started using our blogs to write about each other. We used Twitter to talk shit about each other in a very thinly veiled way. So really, it was the best training for being online.” Show notes: @delia_cai deliacai.com Cai’s Vanity Fair archive Deez Links archive 15:00 Cai’s blog 27:00 "Three Generations of Blue's Clues Hosts Are Still Cool With Being Your Best Friend" (Vanity Fair • Dec 2022) 37:00 "She Invented Adulting. Her Life Fell Apart. She Wants You to Know That’s Okay." (Vanity Fair • May 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Peggy Orenstein is a journalist and author. Her latest book is Unraveling. “The challenge is… to not want to say, I need to know what the book is about. I need to have my chapters. I need to know what exactly I'm looking for. Because it's really scary to just go out and report and have trust that there's going to be interesting things and that if you just keep going, you're going to find them. So to not foreclose possibility and options and ideas is the biggest reporting challenge for those sorts of books for me.” Show notes: @peggyorenstein peggyorenstein.com 01:00Girls & Sex (Harper • 2016) 01:00 Boys & Sex (Harper • 2020) 01:00 Cinderella Ate My Daughter (Harper • 2012) 01:00 Waiting for Daisy (Bloomsbury • 2007) 01:00 Unraveling (Harper • 2023) 14:00 Salt: A World History (Mark Kurlansky • Penguin Books • 2003) 18:00 "Mourning My Miscarriage" (New York Times Magazine • Apr 2002) 21:00 Schoolgirls: Young Women, Self-Esteem and the Confidence Gap (Anchor • 1995) 25:00 "Champion of the Deep" (New York Times Magazine • Jun 1991) 37:00 Bird by Bird (Anne Lamott • Anchor • 1995) 47:00 Aftersun (A24 • 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jonathan Goldstein is an audio producer and the host of Heavyweight. “I wasn’t taking myself very seriously, initially. I liked working with my friends and family because I think I was a little more comfortable with them. Then in the second season people were writing in with real problems, and they were looking at me as a kind of expert. It was terrifying to meet with these people and see the look of hopefulness in their eyes. ... I realized I need to step it up and even if I didn’t feel like an expert—an expert in an invented field that doesn’t really exist—that I’d really have to take that on with seriousness.” Show notes: @J_Goldstein Goldstein’s Heavyweight archive 02:00 "Plan B" (Ira Glass • This American Life • Feb 2002) 10:00 Goldstein’s This American Life archive 14:00 Lenny Bruce is Dead (Counterpoint Press • 2006) 16:00 "I Know What You Did This Summer" (Ira Glass • This American Life • Aug 2001) 17:00 "Other People’s Problems" (Jonathan Goldstein • CBC • Sept 2020) 19:00Goldstein’s Wiretap archive, selected and republished by the CBC 23:00 "What I Should’ve Said" (Ira Glass • This American Life • Jan 2004) 23:00 "Recordings for Someone" (Ira Glass • This American Life • Jan 2002) 26:00 "Buzz" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Sept 2016) 31:00 "The Elliotts" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Dec 2022) 33:00 "Justine" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Oct 2021) 33:00 "Stephen" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Oct 2021) 37:00 "Dr. Muller" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Nov 2019) 43:00 "Another Roadside Attraction" (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • Nov 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Katy Vine is an executive editor for Texas Monthly. “This is a huge state. There’s so much, and it’s different everywhere you look. You just go to Houston and there’s worlds within worlds within worlds just within the one city. You go to San Antonio and you’re in a different country, and you go to Dallas, you’re in a totally different country. … It’s wild to me. It’s endlessly fascinating.” Show notes: @Katy_Vine Vine on Longform Vine’s Texas Monthly archive 07:00 "Family Circus" (Texas Monthly • Aug 2002) 16:00 "Just Desserts" (Texas Monthly • Jan 2016) 20:00 "The Wildest Insurance Fraud Scheme Texas Has Ever Seen" (Texas Monthly • Sep 2020) 23:00 "Plenty of Ammo" (Texas Monthly • Aug 2001) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Khabat Abbas is an independent journalist and video producer from northeastern Syria, and the winner of the 2021 Kurt Schork News Fixer Award. ”I can see from my experience that there is a gap between the editors, who are kind of elites in their luxury offices, and the amazing journalists who are in the field, who all sympathize with what they are seeing on the ground and want to cover [it], but they have to satisfy the editors. And this is how we end up having little gaps in the ways of covering in general. It's not a matter of like, they shaped it in this way. The problem, I think, it’s bigger. How this industry is working, how this industry is deciding what they should cover.” Show notes: @khabat_abas Kurt Schork Awards in International Journalism 34:00 "'Belief Allows Us to Move Forward,' Said One Female Soldier in Battle Against ISIS" (ABC News • July 2017) 40:00 "The Former 'Caliphate Capital' Is Haunted by Fears of an ISIS Comeback" (Washington Post • May 2020) 43:00 "How ISIS Women and Their Children Are Being Left Stranded in the Desert" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 43:00 "ISIS at a Crossroads" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 43:00 "After the ISIS Caliphate: Thousands of Islamic State Fighters Captured in Syria Face Uncertain Fate" (Washington Post • Dec 2019) 51:00 "'This Is Ethnic Cleansing': A Dispatch from Kurdish Syria" (New York Review of Books • Oct 2019) 51:00 "For Kurds on the Syrian Front Line There’s No Ceasefire" (The Daily Beast • Nov 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chloé Cooper Jones is a philosopher and journalist whose work has appeared in GQ, The Verge, The Believer and many other publications. Her new book is Easy Beauty. ”I literally didn't talk to anyone in my life about disability until I was, like, 30. Ever. Not my husband, not my friends, as little as possible to my own mother. I had this very bad idea that what I needed to do in every single social situation was wait until people could unsee my body…. And it was all in service of trying to be truly recognized or truly seen. And, of course, what was happening is I was involved in a complete act of self erasure because my body and my real self are related…. There is no real me without my physical self…. I did not think I was going to ever write about this, but once I started, it felt like I met myself for the first time.” Show notes: @CCooperJones chloecooperjones.com  Cooper Jones on Longform 00:00 Easy Beauty (Avid Reader Press/Simon & Schuster • 2022) 01:00 "Fearing for His Life" (The Verge • Mar 2019) 02:00 "Contemplating Beauty in a Disabled Body" (New York Times Magazine • Mar 2022) 19:00 "Such Perfection" (The Believer • Jun 2019) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Wolman is the author of six books and a magazine features writer who has written for Wired, Outside, and The New York Times. His latest article is ”Vanished in the Pacific.” “I feel like conversations about characters, character development, strong characters gets a little nauseating in my field sometimes because it’s like, of course — you need that like you need periods at the ends of sentences. Do we really have to keep saying it? But in this conversation it’s worth saying, because there are great ideas out there where the sources or the characters just really weren't there and then you’re tucking your tail in between your legs to look for the next one.” Show notes: @davidwolman david-wolman.com 03:00 Aloha Rodeo (Wolman and Julian Smith • Harpers Collins • 2020) 09:00 "The Ultimate Counterfeiter Isn't a Crook—He's an Artist" (Wired • May 2012) 13:00 "The Cold War" (Wolman and Julian Smith • Epic Magazine • Sept 2015) 21:00 Atellan Media 31:00 The End of Money (Da Capo • 2013) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Clint Smith is a poet and a staff writer for The Atlantic. His most recent book is How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America and his latest feature is “Monuments to the Unthinkable.” “I've been to a lot of places that carry a history of death and slaughter and murder. I've been on plantations. I've been in execution chambers. I've sat on electric chairs. I've been on death row. But I have never experienced anything like what I experienced walking through the gas chamber in Dachau. I mean, there's reading books about the Holocaust, and then there's that. And that is something that I hope to continue doing for the rest of my life: putting my body where these things happen. Because it completely transforms your understanding of what it was like.” Show notes: @ClintSmithIII clintsmithiii.com Smith on Longform Smith's Atlantic archive 00:00 How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America (Little Brown • 2021) 01:00 "Monuments to the Unthinkable" (Atlantic • Nov 2022) 17:00 Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City (Matthew Desmond • Crown • 2017) 33:00 The Hemingses of Monticello (Annette Gordon-Reed • W.W. Norton • 2009) 34:00 Counting Descent (Write Bloody Publishing • 2016) 57:00 The Diary of a Young Girl (Anne Frank • 1947) 57:00 Number the Stars (Lois Lowry • Houghton Mifflin • 1989) 1:07:00 "The Stories Tamir Rice Makes Us Remember" (New Yorker • Dec 2015) 1:08:00 Smith's New Yorker archive 1:08:00 "Freddy Adu and the Children of the Beautiful Game" (New Yorker • Mar 2017) 1:09:00 Above Ground (Little Brown • 2023) 1:09:00 Crash Course Black American History Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Grant Wahl was the founder of Fútbol with Grant Wahl, a longtime writer for Sports Illustrated, and the author of The Beckham Experiment and Masters of Modern Soccer. He died on December 10, covering the World Cup in Qatar. This interview was recorded in January 2016. “I never would have predicted I would do soccer full time. And that’s happened. I’d love to say that this was all planned and inevitable but it really wasn’t.” Show notes:  Fútbol with Grant Wahl Wahl's Sports Illustrated archive “Soccer Journalist Dies at World Cup After Collapsing at Argentina Game” (The New York Times) “RIP Grant Wahl” (Chris Wittyngham, Fútbol with Grant Wahl) “Remembering Grant Wahl: A Sterling Example of How to Work With Principle” (Sports Illustrated) “Remembering Grant Wahl, a champion of American soccer” (The Atlantic) “Live like adored soccer writer Grant Wahl and smell those roses” (Indy Star) “There was something Bourdain-like about the big, soccer life Grant Wahl led” (Los Angeles Times) “Grant Wahl's housemate Guillem Balagué pays tribute to US journalist” (CNN.com) “Grant” (Joe Posnanski) “He was the best of us” (former U.S. Men’s National Team Coach Bob Bradley) “US Soccer statement on the passing of Grant Wahl” (US Soccer) “Grant Wahl was my idol and my friend. A selfless, wonderful man” (The Athletic) “To the end, Grant Wahl fought fearlessly for what he believed” (CBC) “He championed soccer in the U.S. and human rights throughout his career” (CBS Mornings) “A love letter to the writing of Grant Wahl” (Holding the High Line) “Mia Hamm 'Heartbroken' Over Grant Wahl's Death: 'Our Game Was Better Because Grant Wahl Was in It'” (People) “How Grant Wahl Changed the Place of Soccer in America” (The New Yorker) “Remembering Grant Wahl” (Medium) “The Best of Us: A Tribute to Grant Wahl” (The Nation) “LeBron James remembrance” (Twitter) “Remembering Grant Wahl” (Sports Illustrated) “The Life and Legacy of Grant Wahl” (Hang Up and Listen) “Witnesses Recount Last Moments Of Soccer Journalist Grant Wahl” (HuffPost) “Billie Jean King remembrance” (Twitter) “Grant Wahl Was a Kind, Wise Champion of the Voiceless in Soccer” (The Guardian) “Grant Wahl's Wife Remembers the Late Soccer Journalist” (NPR) “Soccer Writer Grant Wahl Was the Type of Journalist — and Person — I Want to Be” (Colorado Sun) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan O’Hanlon is a soccer writer for ESPN. His new book is Net Gains: Inside the Beautiful Game’s Analytics Revolution. “It wasn’t just that I was burned out from two years at The Ringer, it was being burned out from nine years of just freakin’ bobbing up and down to keep my head above water, and changing the water every year.” Show notes: @rwohan ryanohanlon.com O’Hanlon’s article archive 05:00 Net Gains (Abrams Books • 2022) 13:00 O’Hanlon’s Run of Play archive 13:00 O’Hanlon’s Grantland archive 13:00 O’Hanlon’s The Ringer archive 22:00 O’Hanlon’s The Good Men Project archive 22:00 O’Hanlon’s Buzzfeed archive 22:00 "Living the Yahoo! Answers Lifestyle" (Buzzfeed • Jun 2012) 23:00 "A Q&A With Red Bulls Goalie and Yonkers Native Ryan Meara" (New York • April 2012) 26:00 No Grass in the Clouds 26:00 O’Hanlon’s Outside archive 33:00 "Bill Simmons Suspended by ESPN for Tirade on Roger Goodell" (Richard Sandomir • New York Times • Sept 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bradley Hope and Tom Wright are former journalists at The Wall Street Journal, the co-founders of journalism studio Project Brazen, and the co-authors of the book Billion Dollar Whale. Their new podcast is Corinna and The King. Hope’s new book is “The Rebel and the Kingdom.” “We’re a little bit skeptical of just jumping into the big story of the day with something that doesn’t feel differentiated. It needs to have character, storytelling — it can’t just be a great topic, or an important topic, even.” Show notes: @bradleyhope @TomWrightAsia Hope’s Wall Street Journal archive Wright’s Wall Street Journal archive 06:00 Billion Dollar Whale (Hachette Books • 2019) 09:00 Project Brazen 10:00 Blood and Oil (Hope and Justin Sheck • Hachette Books • 2020) 19:00 Fat Leonard (Project Brazen • 2021) 25:00 Persona: The French Deception (Evan Ratliff • Verified • 2022) 47:00 "Road Trip! American Student Joins Rebels in Fight for Qaddafi Stronghold" (Hope • The National • Aug 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hanif Abdurraqib is a poet, essayist, and critic whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine and many other publications. His latest book is A Little Devil in America: In Praise of Black Performance. “I learn from hearing my elders tell stories. There’s an inherent knowing of yourself as a vessel for narration who also has to—is required to—hold the attention of others at all costs. And that’s essentially what I’m trying to do. The broader project of my writing is almost a constant pleading of: Don’t leave yet. Stay here with me for just a little bit longer.” Show notes: @NifMuhammad abdurraqib.com Abdurraqib on Longform 02:00 A Little Devil in America (Random House • 2021) 09:00 Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung (Lester Bangs • Anchor • 1988) 10:00 The Crown Ain’t Worth Much (Button Poetry • 2016) 14:00 They Can’t Kill Us Until They Kill Us (Two Dollar Radio • 2017) 20:00 Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest (University of Texas Press • 2019) 25:00 Stakes Is High (De La Soul • Tommy Boy, Warner Brothers • 1996) 33:00 Black Movie (Danez Smith • Button Poetry • 2014) 37:00 Abdurraqib's MTV News archive 39:00 "Mo Salah Is Ready to Make the Whole World Smile" (Bleacher Report • Jun 2018) 44:00 Red Dead Redemption (Rockstar Games • 2010) 47:00 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo • 2017) 47:00 Elden Ring (Bandai Namco Entertainment • 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Audie Cornish is a journalist and the former host of NPR’s All Things Considered. Her new CNN Audio podcast is The Assignment. “I think there is journalism inherent in an interview. Like the interview itself should be considered a piece of journalism. It isn't always. Sometimes the vibe is that it’s a little window dressing or that it's personality driven and I don't subscribe to that. I think that it has its own journalism. It's my journalism.” Show notes: @AudieCornish Cornish's NPR archive 01:00 The Assignment (CNN Audio • 2022) 25:00 "Letters: 'Music Curator' Diplo" (NPR • Jun 2012) 36:00 Cornish’s Twitter thread (Jan 2022) 43:00 Serial (Serial Productions) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Taffy Brodesser-Akner is a staff writer at the New York Times and the creator of the new Hulu television series Fleishman Is in Trouble, based on her bestselling novel. “I took the cast out to dinner … And the way they began talking to each other, which was very intimate, was like a punch in the stomach. Because I had always thought that I got people to open up to me [in celebrity profiles]. And I was like, Oh, no, I got them to answer questions differently than maybe they had before. … And that was a little devastating to me.” Show notes: @taffyakner taffyakner.com  Brodesser-Akner on Longform 00:00 Brodesser-Akner on Longform Podcast (#126) 00:00 Brodesser-Akner on Longform Podcast (#350) 01:00 Brodesser-Akner's New York Times archive 01:00 Brodesser-Akner's GQ archive 01:00 Fleishman Is in Trouble (Hulu • 2022) 01:00 Fleishman Is in Trouble (Random House • 2020) 04:00 "Billy Bob Thornton on Bad Santa 2, Ungrateful Fans, and Why He Won't Direct Anymore" (GQ • Nov 2016) 09:00 "Jimmy Buffett Does Not Live the Jimmy Buffett Lifestyle" (New York Times • Feb 2018) 13:00 "The Gospel According to Marianne Williamson" (New York Times • Sep 2019) 14:00 Erin Brockovich (2000) 17:00 "This Tom Hanks Story Will Help You Feel Less Bad" (New York Times • Nov 2019) 17:00 "What Happened to Val Kilmer? He’s Just Starting to Figure It Out." (New York Times • May 2020) 23:00 Little Miss Sunshine (2006) 23:00 Ruby Sparks (2012) 24:00 "Christian Slater Isn't Mr. Robot, He's Mr. Nice Guy" (GQ • Aug 2016) 27:00 "Water’s Edge" (GQ • Jul 2015) 33:00 "CNN’s Jake Tapper Is the Realest Man in ‘Fake News’" (GQ • Apr 2017) 41:00 "How Goop’s Haters Made Gwyneth Paltrow’s Company Worth $250 Million" (New York Times • Jul 2018) 47:00 Sam Anderson on Longform Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nancy Updike is a founding producer and senior editor at This American Life. Jenelle Pifer, a former Longform Podcast editor, is a senior producer at Serial. Their new three-part podcast, hosted by Updike and produced by Pifer, is We Were Three. Updike: “I say it’s a story that’s a bit about COVID, but really about a family, and that’s the closest I’ve gotten to a short version. I don’t know. Why is that? I never have a short version of something I’m working on—never.” Pifer: “We were doing a lot of talking about, for Nancy, what are the driving questions you tend to be attracted to? There were a few things we came up with, one of which was that you tend to gravitate toward stories where somebody is in the middle of something that they don’t know what to make of yet, and you kind of just want to sit with them and see what direction they walk in, or what they say, or what meaning they put onto something.” Show notes: @jenellepifer jenelle-pifer.com Updike’s This American Life archive Updike’s New York Times archive 05:00Rachel McKibben’s Twitter thread 24:00 Heavyweight #46 Dan (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • 2022) 39:00 Nice White Parents (Chana Joffe-Walt • Serial Productions • 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andy Kroll is an investigative reporter for ProPublica. His new book is A Death on W Street: The Murder of Seth Rich and the Age of Conspiracy. “I think a book has ruined me for writing hot takes and spicy Twitter dunks and all of these other one- and two-dimensional bits of ephemera. I wasn't really a big fan of it in the first place, but I can't do it anymore. A book forces you to look at the world in a much more fine grained, humane, empathetic way, and there's no going back from that.” Show notes: @AndyKroll andy-kroll.com Kroll on Longform Kroll's ProPublica archive Kroll's Rolling Stone archive 01:00 A Death on W Street: The Murder of Seth Rich and the Age of Conspiracy (PublicAffairs • 2022) 21:00 "Ted Cruz’s Secret Weapon to Win the Right" (National Journal • Jun 2015) 22:00 "Ted Cruz’s Howitzer" (New Republic • Jan 2016) 22:00 "The Staying Power of Nancy Pelosi" (The Atlantic • Sep 2015) 22:00 "The Last Days of Jerry Brown" (California Sunday Magazine • Mar 2018) 31:00 "Seth Rich, Slain DNC Staffer, Had Contact with WikiLeaks, Say Multiple Sources" (Malia Zimmerman • Fox News • May 2017) 40:00 Longform Podcast #46: Nicholas Schmidle (Jun 2013) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Erika Hayasaki has written for The New York Times Magazine, Wired, and The Atlantic. Her new book is Somewhere Sisters: A Story of Adoption, Identity, and the Meaning of Family. “I don’t subscribe to the belief that it’s our story because we’re the journalist that wrote it — especially when people are sharing these really intimate, deep, painful moments. That is not my story. That’s their story that they've collaborated in a way with me to share through these interviews.” Show notes: @ErikaHayasaki erikahayasaki.com  Hayasaki on Longform Hayasaki’s Atlantic archive 04:00 "Hiroshima" (John Hersey • New Yorker • Aug. 1946) 12:00 "A deadly hush in Room 211 — then the killer returned" (Los Angeles Times • April 2007) 16:00 "A Criminal Mind" (California Sunday Magazine • Oct. 2015) 17:00 "In a Perpetual Present" (Wired • April 2016) 18:00 Somewhere Sisters (Algonquin Books • 2022) 19:00 "Identical Twins Hint at How Environments Change Gene Expression" (The Atlantic • May 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices