Deviate

"All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you're writing about -- the figure in the landscape -- is actually the ideal." —Paul Theroux Paul Theroux's highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux's book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the "human architecture of a place" (5:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (20:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (25:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (32:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (40:15); and where Paul is traveling next (46:00). Media mentioned in the 2026 intro Deviate Mini-Essays: Creative Free-Writes for Life's Journey (Substack newsletter) 6 Travel Podcasts to Inspire Your Next Trip (New York Times article) Kansas Never Plays Itself (non-travel Deviate episode) 2024 Deviate Super Bowl Special (non-travel Deviate episode) A mixtape (of sorts) about mixtapes (non-travel Deviate episode) The most 1980s underdog story of the 1980s (non-travel Deviate episode) A personal history of my grunge-bandwagon band (non-travel Deviate episode) Nine lessons from my failed van-life memoir (non-travel Deviate episode) Books, articles, and films mentioned "Paul Theroux on Blogging, Travel Writing, and 'Three Cups of Tea'" (2011 Atlantic interview) The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux The Mosquito Coast, by Paul Theroux The Tao of Travel, by Paul Theroux Deep South, by Paul Theroux American Notes, by Charles Dickens Barbary Shore, by Norman Mailer Journey Without Maps, by Graham Greene Sea and Sardinia, by D.H. Lawrence Travels, by Ibn Battuta Travels, by Marco Polo Lafcadio Hearn's Japan: An Ant...

“"When I was in the third grade my teacher announced to our class that Ronald Reagan had been shot. When she asked if we had questions, I raised my hand and asked her if the Indiana - North Carolina basketball game was still going to happen that night.” – Chuck Klosterman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Chuck, and Michael hypothesize about where in Texas the town of "Dillon" is in the TV show Friday Night Lights (2:30); the role of sports and sports movies in how people perceive Indiana, and which sports fandoms are independent of geography (17:00); sports movies (and hypothetical sports movies) set in Michael's hometown of State College, PA, or Chuck's home-state of North Dakota, or Rolf's hometown of Wichita (27:00); working-class sports cities with bad reputations, and how geography determines the sports stories that are told there (40:00); the inherent placelessness of the NFL Scouting Combine and the Super Bowl, how sports are the last media events where the outcome is truly unknown, and what the best hypothetical scenario is for diehard fans watching a big game (50:00). Chuck Klosterman is a cultural critic known for analyzing pop culture, sports, and philosophy. He is the author of 13 books, including Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs, The Nineties, and, most recently, Football. Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Bigger Than the Game and  Season of Saturdays. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture. Notable Links: Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay) The Rewatchables (Ringer Network podcast) Friday Night Lights (TV show) Pflugerville, Texas (shooting Location of Friday Night Lights) Odessa, Texas (setting of the book Friday Night Lights) Friday Night Lights: A Town, a Team, and a Dream (book) Friday Night Lights (2004 film) Perfect Strangers (TV series) Jesse Plemons (actor in Friday Night Lights) Hoosiers (1986 movie) Bob Knight (Indiana basketball coach from 1971–2000) Season on the Brink, by John Feinstein (book) Gene Hackman (actor in Hoosiers) Woody Hayes (football coach)

“A joke is kind of like a little life-lesson in addition to being funny. If your joke is really good, there's a little nugget of truth in it.” – Cedar Van Tassel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cedar discuss why kids want to be paleontologists and astronauts, and the existential "book" Cedar wrote when he was four (2:00); how Cedar got started reading comics, which ones were his favorites, and his own early comics projects (8:00); the golden age of webcomics, and how Appleguy got started (16:00); the world of Appleguy and Beefwood, and its "roadside attraction" and other geographical subplots (24:00); how Cedar went from drawing an Instagram comic to having a book of comics published by a major North American indie comics publisher, and what his creative process looks like (37:30); and Cedar's four pieces of creative advice: 1) Be opportunistic; 2) Give yourself some rules; 3) Don't torture yourself; 4) People will find your interest in something interesting. Cedar Van Tassel (@appleguy_comix) is the author of Appleguy and Beefwood, which was published by the iconic Montreal comics press Drawn & Quarterly in May of 2026. A lifelong plant and prairie lover, he does work on ecological restoration projects throughout the Great Plains. Notable Links: Seinfeld (TV show) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) The Misadventures of Wenamun, by Rolf Potts (comic book) Paleontology (using fossils to study the past) Calvin and Hobbes (daily comic strip) The Complete Calvin and Hobbes (comics anthology) Scott McCloud (cartoonist and comics theorist) The Simpsons (animated TV sitcom) Webcomics (comics published directly online) Garfield (daily comic strip) "The Dark Side of Travel Romance" (Deviate episode) Ents (tree humanoids in Lord of the Rings) S.P. Dinsmoor's Garden of Eden (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Belt Buckle (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Czech Egg (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Collection of the World's Smallest Versions of the World's Largest Things Biggest ball of twine (roadside attraction in Kansas) Marshall McLuhan (media theorist)

“When we don't foster local filmmaking traditions, we end up making movies about what we think life is like in the cities we do see movies about.” – Jason Bailey In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason talk about how being from Kansas influenced their careers as travel writers and film critics, and the long cultural shadow of The Wizard of Oz (2:30); how Jason's career started by making independent movies in Wichita, what those movies were like, and how he remembers them now (9:00); how many New York movies were shot in Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th century (19:00); how filmmaking moved back to New York during a less-than-glamorous time in the city's history, and how it's important to tell one more story about a place (26:00); and how technology might change the way movies are made and watched in the future (32:00). Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey) is an author and film critic, whose writing has appeared in such publications as the New York Times and Rolling Stone. He is the author of six books, including Fun City Cinema: New York City and the Movies that Made It, and Pulp Fiction: The Complete Story of Quentin Tarantino’s Masterpiece.  Notable Links: Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay) Celebrating the genius of Pulp Fiction (Deviate episode) Joan Didion (American author and essayist) Lady Bird (2017 film) Fargo (1996 film) The Wizard of Oz at Sphere (4D AI film in Las Vegas) Alissa Wilkinson (American film critic) Richard Brody (American critic) Pauline Kael (American critic) My Day in the Barrel (1998 Jason Bailey movie) Salvage anthropology (method of documenting declining cultures) Los Angeles Plays Itself (2003 essay film) Actuality film (early type of nonfiction motion picture) Martin Scorsese (American filmmaker) The Naked City (1948 film) Fame (1980 film) Jim Jarmusch (American filmmaker) John Cassavetes (American filmmaker) Media 100 (video editing system) Microdrama (serialized short-form online video) Mumblecore (subgenre of independent film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017...

“I asked everyone if they were lonely. All the guys my age said 'no, I'm too busy; too much going on.' When I answer that quickly I'm either lying or it's something I'm afraid of.” – Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about why Andrew took a USA road trip to reconnect with his friends (2:15); what kinds of friends Andrew sought out, why none of them were public figures, and how loneliness is bad for men's health (8:00); the kinds of men Andrew spoke with in passing on the trip, why Andrew sought out Elvis Presley sites on the road, and how women's friendships differ from men's (17:30); Andrew's takeaways from his road trip, why "showing up" for people is important, and how travel can be the "university of life" (28:00); audience questions about friendships between younger men, the rumored possibility of a St. Elmo's Fire sequel, the task of recording an audiobook, creepy things that happened on the road, and how travel inevitably makes us more open and curious (35:30). Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy) is an actor, television director and writer of such books as The Longest Way Home, Brat and Walking with Sam. His newest book is Who Needs Friends: An Unscientific Examination of Male Friendship Across America. Notable Links: Tips for telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy (Deviate episode) Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes) Travels with Charley in Search of America, by John Steinbeck (book) Brat Pack (group of young 1980s actors) Elvis Presley Birthplace (museum site in Tupelo, Mississippi) Camps Promising to Turn You into an Alpha Male (article) Comstock, Texas (incorporated community) Joshua Speed (close friend of Abraham Lincoln) St. Elmo's Fire (1985 movie) Geoff Dyer (English author and travel writer) Strawberry Hill (neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

"I think you have to pick your battles when you're collaborating with people." – Kim Krizan Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin. Notable Links: Kim Krizan on the philosophy of Before Sunrise (YouTube video) Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan (creative writing class) Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes) Before Sunrise (1995 movie) Ethan Hawke (American actor and director) Julie Delpy (French actress and director) Richard Linklater (American filmmaker) Slacker (1990 film) Dazed and Confused (1993 film) Anaïs Nin (French-American diarist and novelist) Reality Bites (1994 movie) Robin Wright (American actress) Lili Taylor (American actress) The Prater (public park in Vienna) Waking Life (2001 film) Forrest Mallard editing and marketing services Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay by Rolf Potts)

“I wish I loved sports, and particularly football, a lot less than I do. It consumes too much of my memory and too much of my time.” – Chuck Klosterman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he's talking to Chuck Klosterman's former roommate Michael Weinreb about Chuck's book Football, rather than Chuck himself (2:00); football-themed video games, and the difference between emotional and analytical sports fandom (7:00); Pico Iyer's appearance in the movie Marty Supreme, how podcasting has changed the landscape, and how streaming video has become the standard way to watch even high school football (17:00); why going to football games in person is a "pagan" experience of games that is completely different than watching them on TV, and how there's a travel parallel in experiencing distant places in person (24:00); how important the season and the weather is to the experience of football at both the experiential and metaphorical level (32:00); what might become of football, and why it persists as the object of fandom even by people who've never played it (39:00). Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings; Bigger Than the Game; and  Season of Saturdays. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture. Notable Links: Kicking & Screaming might be the best movie ever (Deviate episode) Back to Penn State (2011 This American Life episode) Chuck Klosterman (author and essayist) Fargo Rock City, by Chuck Klosterman (2001 book) EA Sports College Football (video game) Super Bowl LV (game the Chiefs lost to the Buccaneers) Super Bowl LIX (game the Chiefs lost to the Eagles) A travel writers’ Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Pico Iyer (travel writer and novelist) Marty Supreme (2025 sports comedy-drama film) Chick Hearn (Los Angeles Lakers announcer) Wesley Morris on Deviate Bill Simmons (American sportswriter and cultural critic) Football History Deep Dive (Bill Simmons Podcast episode) 2025 Kansas 1A football championship (high school game video)

“In teaching us to appreciate rather than accumulate – to seek awe rather than outcomes – travel can be an ongoing exercise in gratitude.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the All the Hacks podcast, with Chris Hutchins. They discuss the concept of “Time Wealth,” how it can be actualized through travel, and how it can dovetail with your family and life goals (2:00); what kinds of travel-oriented experiences and attitudes and rituals can help you frame and identify your values and life-goals (10:30); how kids can be a window into new places as a traveler, and why slowing down and "seeing less" helps you experience more on the road (27:00); the limitations of planning your travels around a "Bucket List," and the merits of taking a travel attitude to your home environment (35:30); how to pack when traveling light, and how to use technology wisely on the road (45:30). Chris Hutchins (Instagram: @chrishutchins) is an avid optimizer and host of a top-ranked podcast, where he shares his quest to upgrade his life without having to spend a fortune. Notable Links: The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (books) Kevin Kelly (editor and futurist) Lyft (ride-hailing service) Die With Zero, by Bill Perkins (book) Carrefour (French convenience store) Zamalek (area of Cairo, Egypt) An Egyptian straight-razor shave in 21 easy steps (video) Jackfruit (food) Raclette (Swiss dish) Père Lachaise (cemetery in Paris) Frank Alamo (French singer) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's writing classes) Canton (town in Mississippi) Lindsborg, Kansas ("Little Sweden") Zacatecas (state in Mexico) No Baggage Challenge (Rolf's 2010 no-luggage trip) AirTreks (round-the-world and multi-stop flight planner) Flâneur (urban wanderer) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

In this feature-length video essay that explores the role places play in storytelling, Rolf examines how Kansas -- his home state -- has been imagined, distorted, and mythologized in cinema and television for more than a century. Blending archival film clips, historical analysis, and deeply personal narration, Kansas Never Plays Itself traces how cinematic shorthand shapes our collective imagination. The video essay invites viewers to reconsider what it means for a location to “play itself” — and what’s lost when the real landscapes and communities behind our most beloved stories remain unseen. Sneak preview of the video essay is online here. Chapters: 0:00 - Intro: Not in Kansas Any More Movies and TV shows mentioned: The Wizard of Oz (1939); Showdown at Abilene (1956); Gunsmoke (1955-1975); Dances with Wolves (1990); Kansas (1995); Capote (2005); The English (2022). 2:00 - Part 1: No Place Like Home (or, Hollywood can’t tell the truth about places) Movies and TV shows mentioned: Suits (2011); Law & Order: SVU (2006); Elementary (2019); The Affair (2014); Slumber (2017); Vancouver Never Plays Itself (2015); Los Angeles Plays Itself (2003); Panic in the Streets (1950); Wichita (1955); Stark: Mirror Image (1986); Seinfeld (1992); Planes, Trains and Automobiles (1987); The Ice Harvest (2005); The Beach (2000); Mutiny on the Bounty (1962); Brigadoon (1954); Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989); Star Wars: A New Hope (1977); Game of Thrones (2012); The Game Camera (2025). 15:05 - Part 2: Why Place Matters (or, The Wizard of Oz and Superman might be a little bit racist) Movies and TV shows mentioned: The Wiz (1978); The Wizard of Oz (1933); The Wizard of Oz (1925); The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1910); Oz the Great and Powerful (2013); Wicked (2024); Smallville (2001); Superman IV: The Quest For Peace (1987); Man of Steel (2013); The Music Man (1962); Meet Me in St. Louis (1944); Gone with the Wind (1939); Swing (1938); Birthright (1939); Lying Lips (1939); Shaft (1971); The Learning Tree (1969); Oscar Micheaux documentary (2021); Adventures of Superman (1952–1958); Superman (1978). 32:25 - Part 3: Why Location Matters (or, How movies lie when depicting places Movies and TV shows mentioned: Office Space (1999); Swingers (1996); Little Shop of Horrors (1986); Avatar (2009); The Matrix (1999); The Breakfast Club (1985); Ferris Bueller’s Day Off (1986); Splendor in the Grass (1961); Picnic (1955); Stand by Me (1986); Kansas (1988); Paper Moon (1973); In Cold Blood (1967); In Cold Blood TV miniseries (1996); Capote (2005); Infamous (2006); Smoke Signals (1998); Geronimo (1962); Navajo Joe (1966); Masterson of Kansas (1954); Buffalo Dance (1894); Last of the Renegades (1964); “Keep America Beautiful” PSA (1971); In the Land of the Headhunters (1914); Among the Cannibal Isles of the South Pacific (1918); The Rider (2017); Reservation Dogs (2021-2023). 54:15 - Part 4: Why Kansas Matters (hint: it’s because all places matter)...

“I’m interested in writing because I don’t want to sleepwalk through life. I feel like we have an appallingly brief time on earth, and we’re here to see and understand and do as much good as we can before we’re gone.” –Anthony Doerr In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Anthony talk about how the pace of travel changes the experience of travel, and what it’s like to travel as a writer (2:45); how to manage the local and the global, the specific and the universal, the concrete and the speculative, in one’s writing (12:30); how the idea of “home” influences one’s craft as a writer who travels (23:00); common mistakes writers make when writing about places and cultures they don’t know well, and humiliating travel (and book-tour) experiences (31:00). Anthony Doerr is a novelist and essayist, and short story writer. His 2014 novel All the Light We Cannot See won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, and was made into a Netflix miniseries in 2023. Books and authors mentioned: Four Seasons in Rome, by Anthony Doerr (book) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Daniel Woodrell (novelist) Aimee Nezhukumatathil (poet and essayist) Benjamin Percy (author, essayist and comic book writer) Paul Theroux (travel writer and novelist) Bob Shacochis (novelist and literary journalist) Peter Hessler (travel writer and journalist) Tony D’Souza (novelist) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Travels in Alaska, by John Muir (book) Lolita, by Vladimir Nabokov (book) Joseph Conrad (Polish-British novelist) Wade Davis (Canadian author and anthropologist) Jared Diamond (author and historian) Gina Ochsner (novelist and short story writer) Other links: Downton Abbey (British historical drama TV series) “My Beirut Hostage Crisis,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay) “The Hunter’s Wife,” by Anthony Doerr (short story) “Querencia,” by Suzannah Lessard (New Yorker article) Querencia (Spanish mystical concept) Jardin des Plantes (botanical garden in Paris) Corsac fox (steppe fox found in Mongolia) <...

Note: This encore episode is dedicated to the memory of Alice Potts, who died on August 20, 2025, aged 81. “In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it’s like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. Notable Links: What to Do When a Loved One Dies (AARP death checklist) How we die in America (Deviate episode) The therapeutic uses of reading scripture (Deviate episode) On losing one’s parents to COVID-19 (Deviate episode) 1985 World Series (baseball championship) Joe Louis (20th century boxing champion) John Prine (singer-songwriter) Alzheimer’s disease (chronic neurodegenerative disease) You Are My Sunshine (folk song) Will You Miss Me When I’m Gone (folk song) Ecclesiastes (book in the Old Testament of the Bible) Epistle of James (book in the New Testament of the Bible) Crowfoot (19th century Siksika First Nation chief) Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) Epicurus (ancient Greek philosopher) Varanasi (Hindu holy city in India) Lamentations 3:22-23 (Old Testament Bible verse) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of...

“Billionaires can’t take a week off? What’s the point of having a billion dollars if they have fewer options than I do?”  –Tim Ferriss In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss common travel fantasies, and the fears that keep people from traveling (5:00); how we can redefine what “wealth” is and live fuller lives (18:00); why keeping a healthy perspective on information intake, technology, and “efficiency” is important, both on the road and in daily life (25:00); the “beginner’s mind,” and tips for writing and creativity (54:00);  the merits of going on foot and “getting lost” on the road, and how this figured into Rolf’s writing classes (1:17:00); notions of “success,” and how to definite the notion of success in a way that enhances one’s way of being in the world (1:37:00); and Rolf’s recommendations for drinks, food, documentaries, books, and poetry (1:50:00); Tim Ferriss (@tferriss) is a best-selling author and podcaster. General Links: Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer writing classes) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (audiobook) The Game Camera (short film cowritten by Rolf and Kristen Bush) Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast (Deviate episode) Arnold Schwarzenegger on The Tim Ferriss Show LeBron James on The Tim Ferriss Show Cheryl Strayed on The Tim Ferriss Show Jerry Seinfeld on The Tim Ferriss Show Tortuga (bags design for long-term travel) Unbound Merino (travel clothing company) AirTreks (round-the-world flight planner) BootsnAll (online travel community) Interview Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Man bites dog (aphorism about journalism) “War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography” (quote) Beginner’s mind (attitude of openness) Adaptation (2002 film) Anne Lamott (American author) Kurt Vonnegut (American author) The Hero’s Adventure with Joseph Campbell (podcast remix) Flâneur (urban wanderer) Situationists (1960s social and artistic movement) Psychogeography (exploration strategy) Dave Chappe...

“Sometimes it’s good to sit still and let a place move through you instead of you moving through a place.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how one can be vulnerable to new experiences on the road instead of micromanaging an itinerary (2:00); how monuments to mortality help us think of travel moments in an existential way (11:30); how we can take the mindset of travel back home with us when the journey is over, and how the experience of travel changes as you age (20:00); the role of ritual and ceremony in slow travel, and the simple things we have in common with our host cultures (30:00). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: Rolf’s online book club signup The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) The Cotswolds (region in central-southwest England) Lake Maninjau (caldera lake in West Sumatra, Indonesia) Rendille people (Cushitic-speaking ethnic group in northern Kenya) Locals often perform a distilled version of their culture (Kenya dispatch) Père Lachaise Cemetery (largest cemetery in Paris) Frédéric Chopin (19th century Polish composer and pianist) The Catacombs (underground ossuaries in Paris) Mount Kenya (second-highest peak in Africa) What we hope to see in places can be at odds with reality (Mentawai dispatch) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Isiah Pacheco (Kansas City Chiefs running back from Rutgers) Patrick Leigh Fermor (English traveler and writer) Richard Rohr (American Franciscan priest and writer) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) Lets Drift (Kenyan hiking club based out of Nairobi) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“When asked to give advice to young people looking to become travel writers, I invariably tell them to go – alone – and live in a country where they don’t speak the language.”  –Thomas Swick In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about the thematic limitations of memoir writing, and the early stages of Tom’s career as a journalist (2:00); his decision to move to Poland for love, and his experiences living in Warsaw around the time of the Solidarity movement (9:30); the task of writing a travel memoir about events that happened decades ago, and how the American news cycles tends to ignore international matters (15:00); the task of getting started in travel writing in the twenty-first century (21:00); and how travel writers have the ability to bring a fresh eye to places that people who live there might miss (26:00). Thomas Swick (@roostertie) is an author and writer of The Joys of Travel, A Way to See the World, and Unquiet Days. His newest book is Falling into Place: A Story of Love, Poland, and the Making of a Travel Writer. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Misery memoir (literary genre focusing on trauma) Aix-en-Provence (city in France) Alsace (region of eastern France) Trenton Times (newspaper in New Jersey) Watergate (political scandal) David Maraniss (American journalist and author) Pope John Paul II (Poland-born Catholic pope) Solidarity (Polish anti-authoritarian movement) Martial law in Poland (early 1980s reaction to Solidarity) Patrick Leigh Fermor (English traveler and author) Tim Cahill (American travel and adventure writer) Dave Barry (American humorist and author) Holiday Magazine (postwar travel magazine) Granta (British literary magazine) Holidays in Hell, by P.J. O’Rourke (book) Colin Thubron (British travel writer) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate – which is a redo of episode 229, which didn’t air properly due to technical problems – Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how to become more independent of technology and smartphones as a traveler and find the “wisdom of place” (16:00); and the travel photos Rolf wishes he had taken when vagabonding 20 years ago (23:00). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: Rolf’s online book club signup The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Kalash people (tribe in Pakistan) Up Cambodia without a phrasebook, by Rolf Potts (essay) Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow (spoken-word tour) White Zombie’s J. Yuenger on long-term travel (Deviate episode) Before Sunrise (1995 film directed by Richard Linklater) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Not everyone who’s lucky is talented and not everyone who’s talented is lucky.”  –Tom Bissell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about Tom’s lack of travel experience when he joined the Peace Corps, and how he dealt with his early failures (2:30); the role that luck (as well as craft and obsessive reading) has played in his writing career (8:00); how, as a writer, to turn real-life people, including yourself, into convincingly human and honest nonfiction “characters” (16:00); Tom “failures” as a writer, the challenges of screenwriting, and the difficulty of writing books that sell (38:30); the book that Tom is most proud of, and how to get out of the success/failure dichotomy as a creative person (47:00); plus a post-interview segment about drinking in Paris (56:00). Tom Bissell is an American author, journalist, critic, and screenwriter. He is the author of such books as Chasing the Sea, Apostle, God Lives in St. Petersburg, Extra Lives, and The Disaster Artist. Notable Links: Rolf’s Paris travel memoir workshops (annual classes) Salt and Fire (2016 Werner Herzog movie) Star Wars: Andor (TV series) Harper’s Magazine (literary publication) Aral Sea (endorheic lake in central Asia) Steven Soderbergh (American film director) Ryszard Kapuściński (Polish journalist and author) A Sense of Direction, by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (travel memoir) “War Zones for Idiots”, by Tom Bissell (essay) Lucasfilm (American film and TV company) Tony Gilroy (American screenwriter) Michael Clayton (2007 legal thriller movie) Greg Sestero (American actor and model) Tommy Wiseau (Polish-American filmmaker) The Room (film regarded as the worst movie ever made) Creative Types, by Tom Bissell (short story collection) The Father of All Things:, by Tom Bissell (memoir) Heraclitus (ancient Greek philosopher) Stoicism (school of Hellenistic philosophy) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Russian writer and dissident) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your question...

“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how to become more independent of technology and smartphones as a traveler and find the “wisdom of place” (16:00); and the travel photos Rolf wishes he had taken when vagabonding 20 years ago (23:00). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: Rolf’s online book club signup The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Kalash people (tribe in Pakistan) Up Cambodia without a phrasebook, by Rolf Potts (essay) Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow (spoken-word tour) White Zombie’s J. Yuenger on long-term travel (Deviate episode) Before Sunrise (1995 film directed by Richard Linklater) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“One ironic anxiety of travel is that suddenly you’re living in ‘organic time’ and you’re not used to it.”  –Rolf Potts In this “vagabonding audio companion” episode of Deviate, remixed from Aaron Millar’s Armchair Explorer podcast, Rolf talks about his earliest travel dreams, and what compelled him to finally take a vagabonding dream trip around North America by van in his early twenties (2:00); how travel expectations and planning are often at odds with the joy of what happens spontaneously on the road (8:30); the delightful surprises Rolf found on a recent trip to Sumatra and the Mentawai Islands (11:30); Rolf’s experiences in Myanmar, and the importance of seeing time, rather than possessions, as our most important form of wealth in life (22:00); Rolf’s early experiences in Southeast Asia, and his monthlong boat journey down the Mekong River (31:00); and how, at its best, travel teaches us to pay attention to life itself (35:00). The Armchair Explorer podcast features adventure storytelling set to music and cinematic effects. Notable Links: Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Uinta Mountains (mountain range in Utah) Mardi Gras (annual celebration in New Orleans) Sumatra (island in Indonesia) “Travel in Sumatra is cheap and amazing” (dispatch) “Seeking crowds is better than crowd-sourcing” (dispatch) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) “Boredom is one of the greatest gifts of travel” (dispatch) Hornbill (tropical bird) Bessie Stringfield (20 century American motorcycle traveler) Bagan (UNESCO World Heritage Site in Myanmar) Mekong (river in Southeast Asia) “One Month on the Mekong,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay) Henry David Thoreau (American essayist and philosopher) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“A wonderful aspect of traveling by train is the transactional relationship between passengers who feed off one another, picking up tips, offering advice, guarding each other’s belongings, and generating a trust that is unique to railway travel.”  –Monisha Rajesh In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel dates back to a series of journeys she took around India (1:30); her more recent experience of taking the Trans-Mongolian train across Russia and into Asia (14:00); what it was like to travel by train in North Korea, China, and Southeast Asia, and how they differ from European trains (28:00); what it was like to take trains across Canada and the United States, and which global trains Monisha likes best (45:00). Monisha Rajesh (@monisha_rajesh) is a travel journalist, and the author of Around India in 80 Trains, and Around the World in 80 Trains. She currently lives in London with her husband and two daughters. Notable Links: Indrail Pass (Indian rail-pass for foreign nationals) Saint Basil’s Cathedral (church in Moscow’s Red Square) Eurail Pass (rail-pass covering 33 European countries) Trans–Mongolian Railway (long-haul train route) Circum-Baikal Railway (railway in Russia’s Irkutsk region) War and Peace (novel by Leo Tolstoy) Game of Thrones (fantasy TV series) Korean State Railway (train system in North Korea) Southwest Chief (American Amtrak route) German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptist group) Qinghai–Tibet railway (Asian train route) Skeena (Canadian passenger train service) Mandovi Express (train route in India) Flight shaming (environmental social movement) Sunset Limited (American Amtrak route) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We live in an age where you can take a series short flights inside a country to speed things up. You end up going to more places, but you experience less, because you’re not really committed to that chicken bus full of really interesting people who want nothing more than to interact with you.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss the idiosyncrasies of crossing land borders and traveling overland (1:30); travelers’ tendency to take dishonest photos of places, and how tourist destinations bend to tourists’ expectations (8:00); the small inconveniences that keep travel interesting, even as we try to avoid them, and the idiosyncrasies of haggling overseas (14:00); how food can be a window into cultures and places for travelers (19:00); common scams that travelers encounter on the road (26:00); and the process of how Rolf assembled the meditations in The Vagabond’s Way, and the concept of “walking until your day becomes interesting” (30:00). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: Rolf’s Vagabond’s Way online book club signup The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) YouCam Perfect (AI person-remover app) Kenny G (American smooth jazz saxophonist) Applebee’s (American restaurant chain) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) Brent Nelson sandwich (bar food in Lindsborg, Kansas) Turkish Knockout, by Rolf Potts (travel essay) Camille Dungy (poet and writer) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Domestic travel to rural places can be as important as international travel that is more obviously cross-cultural.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marci talk about how the best trips are guided by curiosity about eight key things, rather than checklists (2:00); what Marci has learned from several decades of writing guidebooks to rural and small-town Kansas, and how these places are worth fighting for (10:30); how urban people can better experience rural places (17:00); using your five senses as a traveler, and other strategies for exploring the nuances of new places (26:30); and seeing places as “mysteries to be solved” (37:30). Marci Penner (@GetRuralKansas) is the executive director of the Kansas Sampler Foundation, which preserves and sustains rural culture by educating Kansans about Kansas and networking and supporting rural communities. She is involved with the PowerUp Movement (empowerment of those 21-39 who are rural by choice), the Big Rural Brainstorm, and the We Kan! Conference. Notable Links: Kansas Guidebook for Explorers, by Marci Penner and Wendee Rowe (guidebook) Physiographic Regions of Kansas (map) 8 Wonders of Kansas (travel destinations) Skeleton Coast (coast area of Namibia) Sterling (town in Kansas) Microaggressions (accidental verbal slights) Big Kansas Road Trip (rural tourism event) Daniel Boone (American frontiersman) New Almelo, Kansas (community in Norton County) Nicodemus, Kansas (town founded in 1871 by formerly enslaved Americans) Damar, Kansas (town founded in 1888 by French Canadians) Exodusters (movement of African-Americans to Kansas in 19th century) Boot Hill (cemetery in Dodge City, Kansas) Fencepost limestone (stone bed in the Great Plains) Cuba, Kansas (Czech-American rural community) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“A souvenir can be anything from a travel experience that honors a certain moment in your life, certifies the journey that took you there, and celebrates the confluence of people and places and actions that made it possible.”  – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne talk about the ways souvenirs help narrate our travel experiences (2:00); the five different historical categories of travel souvenirs (7:30); the old trend of collecting hair and bones from famous people (15:00); what kinds of souvenirs are popular with travelers (20:00); which souvenirs Rolf sought when he visited Australia, and how some souvenirs make less sense when you get them home (24:30); then Rolf and Gina talk about childhood travel souvenirs (30:00); how photographs are a kind of souvenir, and how they create different memories than objects (36:00); and how the notion of “authenticity” in regard to souvenirs can be complicated (40:00). Suzanne Hill is the presenter of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s “Weekend Nightlife.” Gina Kaufmann is an essayist and radio journalist, most recently at KCUR, the NPR affiliate in Kansas City. Notable Links: Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) One Month on the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) Grand Tour (17th- to 19th-century European travel rite) British Museum (public museum in London) Elgin Marbles (ancient Greek sculptures) Boxer Rebellion (anti-colonial uprising in China) Henry Crabb Robinson (19th century English diarist) John Keats (English Romantic poet) John Milton (English poet and intellectual) On Seeing a Lock of Milton’s Hair (Keats poem) Rue Mouffetard (street in Paris) Las Vegas Souvenir & Resort Gift Show (convention) World’s Columbian Exposition (world’s fair in Chicago) Omiyage (Japanese souvenir rite) Día de los Muertos (Mexican holiday) Père Lachaise (cemetery in Paris) Neil Armstrong (astronaut) Auschwitz (Nazi concentration camp in Poland) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In alien parts, we speak more simply, unencumbered by the histories that we carry around at home, and look more excitedly, with eyes of wonder.” —Pico Iyer In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how he prepares for the book-club sessions (1:30); how the first days of one’s journeys have an optimistic energy and excitement, and how “culture shock” is a real thing (4:00); how travel can put us into a childlike mental state, and how travel expectations can lead to unfair disappointments (13:00); how food, even anomalous food, tells specific stories about places, and Rolf’s strategy for keeping a travel journal (21:30); how the “beaten path” is beaten for good reasons, but straying from it yields serendipitous rewards (31:00); and simple strategies for staying safe and dealing with burnout on the road (42:00). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: Rolf’s online book club signup The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Egeria (ancient Galician nun and pilgrim) Faroe Islands (North Atlantic archipelago) Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) Expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) Rick Steves (travel writer and TV host) Mary Oliver (American poet) Beginner’s Mind (spiritual attitude of openness) Whittier (city in southern California) Nottingham (city in England) Hippie trail (overland Asia route in 1960s and ’70s) Pulp Fiction (1994 Quentin Tarantino) H Mart (Korean supermarket chain) Lavinia Spalding on travel journaling (Deviate episode) Patrick Leigh Fermor (English travel writer and scholar) Commonplace book (compendium of learning) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) On Trails, by Robert Moor (book) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) České Budějovice (city in the Czech Republic) Ranong (town in Thailand) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We do not just keep and collect things. We trouble ourselves to repurpose, create, and invent things just to carry, a little easier, those stories we cannot live without.” —Kendra Greene In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks to the directors of two very different museums — Dawn Hammat of the Eisenhower Presidential Library, Museum & Boyhood Home in Abilene, Kansas, and Greg Long of Long’s Collectible Showplace & Gift Shop in Salina, Kansas (0:00); what people are drawn to in a given museum, and how a kind of nostalgia drives what people look for there (5:30); the ways all museums change and adapt over time, and how museums can surprise their visitors (12:00). Notable Links: Dwight Eisenhower (34th president of the United States) Mamie Eisenhower (first lady of the US from 1953-61) Barbie (fashion doll) Hot Wheels (brand of toy car) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Ozzy Osbourne (rock singer) Wonder cabinets (early versions of museums) British Museum (national museum in London) Beanie babies (line of stuffed toys) Pez (brand of candy dispenser) Paint by numbers (popular painting kits) Nelson Rockefeller (businessman and politician) Ethel Merman (20th century actress and singer) World’s Largest Belt Buckle (attraction in Kansas) Greyhound Hall of Fame (museum in Kansas) Chisholm trail (19th century cattle-driving trail) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Quietly use travel to deepen your life, and to build stronger relationships – not only with other cultures, but with your home. Figure out ways to give back.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about how travel allows you to “waste your twenties” in a good way, and how Rolf has come to define “adventure” (2:00); how to plan travels in such a way as to leave room for spontaneity, and how to meet people on the road (8:00); how to communicate in a place where you don’t speak the local language, and how to be daring in trying new foods as you travel (15:30); Rolf’s travel experiences on the Laotian Mekong, on foot in the Libyan Desert, and by van in North America (25:00); how to balance the desire to see lots of places with the desire to get to know a few places well, and what it means to find “authentic” places (32:30); why slow journeys create richer experiences than hurried ones, and how to honor gestures of hospitality (42:30); how the experience of travel changes as you get older, and why making time is more important in life than making money (48:00). David Martinez is an Associate Professor of Spanish and the director of the Center for Study Abroad at George Fox University in Newberg, Oregon. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Bosintang (Korean dog-meat soup) Fried spider (Cambodian snack food) Beondegi (Korean silkworm street food) Doritos (American snack food) Snails as food Merengue (Dominican music and dance) Asturian gaita (Spanish bagpipe) One Month on the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Elderhostel (educational travel for older adults) “The Loss of the Creature,” by Walker Percy (essay) Heraclitus (ancient Greek philosopher) Wall Street (1987 movie) Gap year (student sabbatical period) Wanderjahr (journeyman year for tradespeople) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Not every fearful decision I’ve made has been bad, but most of my bad decisions have been based in fear.”  –Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about the two halves of Andrew’s professional life – acting and travel writing – and his transformative first journey on the Camino de Santiago in 1994 (2:00); Andrew’s decision to return to the Camino after the pandemic with his 19-year-old son Sam, what it was like to walk for days at a time with Sam, and how being in the 1980s “Brat Pack” affected Andrew’s sense of self (11:30); how Sam’s attitude toward the walk changed over the course of the journey, and how Andrew knew he might be able to write a book about the experience (22:00); audience questions, including writing advice, what Sam thought of the book, and how travel can expand your view of the world (28:00). Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy), who rose to fame as a teen actor during the John Hughes 80’s era, is a television director and writer of such books as The Long Way Home and Brat. His newest book is Walking with Sam: A Father, a Son, and Five Hundred Miles Across Spain. Notable Links: Andrew McCarthy on travel (Deviate episode) Andrew McCarthy Proust questionnaire (Deviate episode) Pretty in Pink (1986 teen romantic comedy-drama) Lowell Thomas Awards (travel writing competition) John Hughes (American filmmaker) Molly Ringwald (American actress) Camino de Santaigo (pilgrimage route in Spain) Off the Road, by Jack Hitt (book about the Camino)) St. James the Great (Christian apostle) Oliver! (coming-of-age musical) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Brat Pack (cohort of 1980s teen actors) “Hollywood’s Brat Pack” (1985 New York article) Kansas (1988 film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The truth is that our travel anticipations, and our memories, have a way of holding only the most striking parts of an experience—the parts that don’t cause burnout.” —Matt Kepnes In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about travel journaling, and a journal Matt has designed for travelers (1:15); why travel burnout happens, and how Matt first experienced it on the road (4:30); why rest days are important to a journey, and why one shouldn’t over-plan one’s days on the road (10:00); how lingering in places allows you to develop a deeper relationship to those places, and how digital nomads can balance work and fun on the road (16:00); and how to create balance in your social-media habits as you travel (23:30). Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Keeping a travel journal (Deviate episode) RememberYourTravels.com (travel journal) Experiencing Norway by hammock (dispatch) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s class in France) Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.”  –Rolf Potts (in 1998) In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s 1998 Las Vegas essay “The Mystical High Church of Luck,” and their relationship to their early creative work (2:30); how the experience of Las Vegas depends on what stage of life you’re in, how Vegas compares to New Orleans, and how Rolf and Ari have a hard time enjoying themselves when they go there (14:00); the stereotypes that surround Las Vegas, why it is difficult to write about, and how one might find original experiences there (30:00); what it would be like to live in Las Vegas, and the mysteries and mechanics of “luck” (47:00). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His latest comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube. Las Vegas Links: The Mystical High Church of Luck, by Rolf Potts (1998 essay) Circus Circus Las Vegas (hotel and casino) Caesars Palace (casino resort in Las Vegas) Ghostbar (Las Vegas nightclub) History of Las Vegas Rat Pack (20th century Las Vegas entertainers) Casino (1995 film) At Home in the Neon, by Dave Hickey (essay) Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Hunter S. Thompson novel) The Hangover (2009 American comedy film) Las Vegas, Tis of Thee, by Richard Todd (essay) Fremont Street (popular gambling street in Las Vegas) Las Vegas Strip (popular gambling street) Valley of Fire State Park (recreation area near Las Vegas) Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area SEMA auto show (car accessory convention) Las Vegas Souvenir & Resort Gift Show (convention) Other Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Salvador Dalí Museum (St. Petersburg art museum) Atlantic City (casino resort city in New Jersey) March Madness (college basketball tournament) Joe Rogan (American comedian and podcaster) Odyssey: Drivi...

“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be interested in certain places, and how Rolf’s latest book is designed to be read over the course of a year (2:00); how nomads can create consistency and community in new places, and how to find good cities for families in Italy and the Balkans (4:45); how to find places to stay in places where last-minute reservations are hard to come by (8:30); how to choose where to go on a given vagabonding journey (13:00); how having a mission can give focus to your travels (17:45); and how guidebooks can still be a useful travel tool (21:10). Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s class in France) Nottingham (city in England) Fudge Tunnel (sludge-rock band from Nottingham) Amalfi Coast (destination in Italy) CouchSurfing (homestay service) Hitching for pastries (Deviate episode) Kevin Kelly on Deviate Storming ‘The Beach,‘ by Rolf Potts (essay) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Faroe Islands (Bradt Travel Guide) The Land of Maybe, by Tim Ecott (travel memoir) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“You hear how there’s many words for snow in native cultures in Canada; there are actually over 20 words for ‘fog’ in the Faroe Islands.”  –Matthew Landrum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matthew discuss what makes the landscape and culture of the Faroe Islands distinctive, and how Matthew came to study Faroese (2:00); how your motivation to travel to a place affects what you see and experience there, and how isolation affects people’s worldview in a place like the Faroes (13:00); Faroese history, art, and culture, and how World War II transformed it (24:00); how the weather affects one’s experience of the Faroe Islands, and what it’s like to travel there (34:00); and how the Faroe Islands have changed — and stayed the same — over the years (46:00). Matthew Landrum (@MatthewLandrum) is a writer, speaker, and teacher. He is the translator of Faroese poet Katrin Ottarsdottir’s Are There Copper Pipes in Heaven, and the author of Berlin Poems. He lives in Detroit where he teaches at a private school for students on the autism spectrum. Faroese music, art, and literature links: Eivør Pálsdóttir (Faroese singer-songwriter) Teitur Lassen (Faroese singer-songwriter) Christine De Luca (Shetlandic poet) Viking metal (music subgenre) Týr (Faroese folk metal band) Trom (TV series set in the Faroe Islands) William Heinesen (Faroese novelist and painter) Magic realism (style of literary fiction) Faroese ballads (traditional music and dance) Ring Cycles (Germanic heroic legends) Völsunga saga (Norse saga involving dragons) Hjalmar and Ingeborg (Faroese ballad) Faroese travel, language, and geography links: Streymoy (largest and most populated of the Faroe Islands) Tórshavn (capital city of the Faroe Islands) International Summer Institute in Faroese Language Norn language (extinct North Germanic language) Týr (Norse god of war) The case for trekking on foot (Deviate episode) Vágar Airport (only airport in the Faroes) Akvavit (Scandinavian distilled spirit) Kirkjubøur (cathedral-ruin village in the Faroes) Gásadalur (village near Múlafossur Waterfall)

“”I wasn’t partying. I wasn’t relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.”  –Kevin Kelly In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin’s interest in photography affected his experience of Asia (7:30); how seeing other cultures gave him perspective on his own culture, and on himself, and his countrymen (15:00); how photography gave him intensified attention to what in the world might be changing (23:00); how AI and other technology are changing how we live, create, and travel (30:00); how to travel in such a way that you are open to phenomenon and experiences you don’t know of yet, and how technology might enable a “protopia” future (40:00). Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a co-founder of Wired magazine, a co-founder of the Rosetta Project, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His three-volume photo book Vanishing Asia draws on 50 years of vagabonding travel experiences, and his newest book, Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier, debuts in May of 2023. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry book) Communitas (egalitarian ethos of shared interest) Jan Chipchase (design innovator) Wired (magazine) Rick Prelinger (American archivist) Stewart Brand (founder of the Whole Earth Catalog) Shenzhen (city in China) A Pattern Language (1977 urban design book) “What AI-Generated Art Means for Human Creativity” (article) “A Brief History of Smell-O-Vision” (article) Burning Man (event in the US) Kumbh Mela (event in India) Musical.ly (defunct social media app) “Forget Utopia. Ignore Dystopia. Embrace Protopia!” (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can’t be planned, and how you can give yourself permission to travel at all ages in life (10:30); how travel can give you perspective on the notion of “success” (22:00); what various book club participants have learned from (and discovered on) their travels (34:00); and the details of Rolf’s annual Travel Memoir writing class in Paris (41:00). Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There book club (Deviate episode) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Rolf’s 2022 appearance on the Tim Ferriss Show (podcast) On Kawara (Japanese conceptual artist) Mallory Square (waterfront plaza in Key West) Oia (village on the Greek island of Santorini) Tony Perrottet on Deviate (podcast episode) Real on the Road (David Hunter Bishop travel blog) Rolf traveling with Sudanese in Syria (blog dispatch) Sei Shōnagon (10th century Japanese author) John Muir (American naturalist and author) Gobi Desert (arid region in East Asia) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher) Bennifer (high-profile celebrity relationship) Paris Writing Workshop (Rolf’s summer writing classes) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel has become a way to remind myself how it feels to get lost, and then get unlost. It is a way to remember the discomfort of uncertainty and the unfamiliar. It’s an exercise in receiving the unexpected.”  –Kristin Van Tassel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kristin discuss being in DC, living in Kansas, and Kristin’s family trip to Mexico using migrant-economy buses (1:30); how seeking international restaurants and grocery stores at home can be a window into distant cultures (8:00); Kristin’s motivation to learn Spanish in middle age, and how it connects to her perspective as a teacher (16:00); Kristin’s harrowing experience of getting lost on a run in Nairobi in 1990, and how getting lost in a place is a way of experiencing it in a deeper way (20:30); how Kristin experienced the country and culture of Moldova through soups and salads while being hosted there by a former student (34:30); and how to stay open to being lost without compromising yourself, and embrace unfamiliar languages as a traveler and learner (41:00). Kristin Van Tassel teaches writing and American literature at Bethany College in Lindsborg, Kansas. She writes essays and poetry about place, teaching, motherhood, and travel. Notable Links: National Portrait Gallery (art museum in Washington, DC) Lindsborg (Swedish-American town in Kansas) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Guanajuato (city in Mexico) Zacatecas (state in Mexico) Meeting Sudanese refugees in Syria (dispatch by Rolf Potts) Hmong people (ethnic group in Southeast Asia) Salina (small city in Kansas) Kimchi (Korean side-dish) “Swamp Creatures,” by Kristin Van Tassel (essay) “Swallowing Fear in San Miguel de Allende” (essay) Hangul (Korean writing system) Punta del Diablo (beach village in Uruguay) Nairobi (capital city of Kenya) Rolf’s 2010 no-baggage round-the-world journey The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Chișinău (capital city of Moldova) Anna Gabur’s baking-themed Instagram Borscht (Eastern European soup) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album

“Running back John Levi is about as easy to stop as a 200-pound eel. With his speed, and his shifting, sidestepping style of running, tacklers slide off of him like rain off a slicker.” –From the Minneapolis Star, October 1923 In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about a 1927 football game between the New York Giants and an all-indigenous Oklahoma team called the Hominy Indians, and how the team’s star player, John Levi, was the father of Rolf’s junior high gym coach (0:00); John Levi’s early years as a football player at Haskell Institute, and Haskell’s games against teams like Baylor and Minnesota (5:00); Haskell’s game against the Quantico Marines at Yankee Stadium, and how it led to John Levi being offered a baseball contract (10:30); how professional football was different in the 1920s than it is now (14:00); how Osage County, Oklahoma was in the midst of an oil boom in the 1920s (17:30) the specifics of the 1927 New York Giants versus Hominy Indians game (20:30); and how John Levi’s legacy was embodied by his son, a U.S. Marine veteran who later became a physical education teacher in Wichita, Kansas (22:30). John Levi, Jr. served as a medic for the First Marine Division during the Korean War. He later taught physical education for several decades at Hadley Junior High School in Wichita, Kansas. Now retired, he lives in Green Valley, Arizona. Sports-related Links: John Levi (Arapaho multi-sport athlete) Hominy Indians (1920s Oklahoma football team) 1927 New York Giants (football team) Playground of the Native Son (2013 film) “They Might be Giants” (article about the Hominy-Giants game) Super Bowl 57 (NFL football championship) Jim Thorpe (Sac and Fox Nation multi-sport athlete) Barry Sanders (NFL running back) Patrick Mahomes (NFL quarterback) 1923 Quantico Marines Devil Dogs (football team) Red Grange (college and NFL running back) Olympics amateurism rules (aristocratic sporting ethos) Harrisburg Senators (minor-league baseball team) History of the National Football League Pottsville Maroons (defunct NFL football team) Kansas City Cowboys (defunct NFL football team) Akron Pros (defunct NFL football team) Buffalo Bisons (defunct NFL football team) Barnstorming (traveling sports exhibitions) John Mosier (NFL tight end...

“For ancient Roman tourists, the whole point of travel was to go where everyone else was going. Sightseeing was a form of pilgrimage.” –Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss the habits idiosyncrasies of ancient Roman tourists, and how they relate to modern travel (1:30); the class tensions and expectations inherent in different types of modern and historical travelers, and how the “unexpected” affects these journeys (17:00); the appeal of Egypt to both ancient and modern tourists (22:30); how mythic ages can be a prism through which to see a place (33:00); how travel and geographical endeavor is an important task for a historian (44:30); and how the experience of travel has and hasn’t changed over the years (55:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games. Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) Vagabond’s Way sweepstakes (online giveaway) Yousuf Karsh (Canadian photographer) Petra (ancient Nabataean city in Jordan) Troy (ancient city in modern-day Turkey) Grand Tour (travel rite from 17th-19th centuries) Explorer’s Club (professional society in New York) Lionel Casson (historian who wrote on ancient Rome) Ludwig Friedländer (scholar who wrote on ancient Rome) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Appian Way (ancient Roman road) Gladiator (2000 film) Sultan Hotel (Rolf’s favorite hostel in Cairo) Valley of the Kings (ancient tomb complex in Egypt) Felucca (Mediterranean sailing boat) Egypt’s Entrepreneur Awards Belle Époque (period of French history) Giacomo Casanova (Italian adventurer) Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (German poet) Theseus (mythical Athenian king) Nero (Roman emperor) Ephesus (ancient Greek city) The ancient Greek Olympics (Deviate episode) Sagas of Icelanders (medieval narratives) Alhambra (Islamic-era fortress in Spain) <...

“A willingness to fail is an important part of difficult beauty. Because difficult beauty will arrive first not as beauty at all.” –Chloe Cooper Jones In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe discuss the philosophical concept of “easy beauty” and “difficult beauty” in the context of travel (2:30); how our relationship to places changes over time with repeated exposure (15:00); how art and travel, home and adventure, became important aspects of Chloe’s life (23:00); how the archetype of the “Hero’s Journey” evokes aspects of home as well as travel (35:30); Chloe’s investigation and experience of “dark tourism” in Cambodia, and how it gave her perspective on how other people view her disability (45:15) and how there’s no easy way to navigate the polarities of the self, but trying to do so can result in a hard-won experience of beauty (1:08:00). Chloe Cooper Jones (@CCooperJones) is the author of Easy Beauty: A Memoir. She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist in Feature Writing, and was the recipient of a Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, as well as a Howard Foundation Grant from Brown University. Notable Links: Bernard Bosanquet (English philosopher) Sublime (philosophical concept) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer writing classes) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Lake Como (lake region in Italy) “The Loss of the Creature,” essay by Walker Percy Teotihuacan (pyramid site in Mexico) Pico Iyer (travel writer) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (book) Quality (philosophical concept) “Such Perfection,” (Believer essay by Chloe Cooper Jones) The High Line (elevated greenway park in New York City) Roland Barthes (French literary theorist) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) The Sheltering Sky, by Paul Bowles (novel) Heroes of the Fourth Turning (2019 play by Will Arbery) “The Grateful Acre,” monologue from Arbery’s play Hero’s journey (narrative template) Minangkabau people (ethnic group in Sumatra) Wanderjahre (journeyman tradition in Germany) Gyoza (Chinese dumplings) Thich Nhat Hanh (...

“Travel is one of the few activities we engage in not knowing the outcome and reveling in that uncertainty. Nothing is more forgettable than the trip that goes exactly as planned.” –Eric Weiner In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss the tendency of travelers to idealize the very recent bygone past in places, and Rolf’s experience of traveling by freighter ship (2:00); Eric’s satisfaction in returning to places he’s visited before, such as India, and how to remain open to uncertainty and surprise on the road (9:30); how conversations about travel differ from generation to generation, culture to culture, person to person (20:00); what it was like for Eric to have his book The Geography of Bliss adapted into a TV show, and the nuances behind the concept of “happiness” (28:30); how the experience of travel is inevitably intertwined with the experience of home (38:00); how luxury hotels can insulate you from the experience of a place, and how “adventure travel” is modern concept (43:30); and how Eric’s relationship to home, and to time, has changed over the years (58:30). Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Socrates Express, and The Geography of Bliss, which is being made into a six-part docu-series, featuring actor Rainn Wilson, and due to air on NBC’s Peacock streaming service. For more about Eric, check out https://ericweinerbooks.com/ Notable Links: Philosophy compels us to live better (Deviate episode) Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss (TV series) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Boatswain (deck boss on a freighter ship) Seven Pillars of Wisdom (book by T.E. Lawrence) Eric Weiner’s Atlas of Ideas (email newsletter) Keitai denwa (Japanese mobile phone culture) Grunge (1990s alternative music culture) K-Pop (Korean popular music) Hangul (Korean alphabet) World Happiness Report Rainn Wilson (TV actor and producer) Quilts for Kids Nepal (nonprofit organization) Ibn Battuta (medieval Moroccan traveler) Beryl Markham (aviator and author) Kamba (ethnic group in Kenya) Thar Desert (arid region in India) The Geography of Genius, by Eric Weiner (book) Yi-Fu Tuan (Chinese-American geographer) “Little Gid...

“Travel expands time, because you’re not experiencing the everyday of what you normally do. It’s all about discovery, and experiencing that with other people.” —Pegi Vail In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pegi talk about how she originally sought to depict a “visual ethnography” of world travelers, their global impacts, and their power as a “gentrifying” force (2:00); how the world of travel has (and hasn’t) changed since Pegi made her film ten years ago, and how immigrants and migrant workers also represent travel communities just like backpackers and expats (11:00); the ways the notion of “journey” can serve as a metaphor for non-travel experiences, and how travel can expand one’s sense of time (26:30); what stories travelers choose to tell about places, and how drug-scenes have fueled travel communitas over the years (31:00); the role digital photography now plays in travel, and the individualized notion of what an “explorer” is (39:30); and the importance of allowing yourself to get lost on that road, the “structured danger” of most adventure travel, and relying on your “personness” (rather than technology) as a traveler (49:00). Pegi Vail is an anthropologist and filmmaker who directed the documentary Gringo Trails.  She is also a sustainable-travel consultant whose academic work has focused on visual anthropology, Indigenous media, and the role of storytelling to the political economy of tourism in the developing world. She is the Co-Director of New York University’s Center for Media, Culture, and History. Vail is a founding member, curator, and featured storyteller of the popular not-for-profit storytelling collective, The Moth. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Williamsburg (gentrified neighborhood in Brooklyn) Banana Pancake Trail (travel circuit in SE Asia) Lower East Side Tenement Museum (historic site in NYC) History of hosteling (inexpensive lodging system) Hippie Trail (overland travel circuit in 1960s and 1970s) The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (novel) Hmong people (ethic group in SE Asia) Nelson H. H. Graburn (anthropology scholar) Communitas (communities created by shared endeavor) Arnold van Gennep (ethnographer who coined “rites of passage”) Chaebol (South Korean industrial conglomerate) Rolf and Ari Shaffir talk psychedelics (Deviate episode) Backpack Ambassadors, by Richard Ivan Jobs (book) Margaret Mead Film Festival (documentary film festival) Spike Lee (American filmmaker) Melvin Estrella (Pegi’s partner and film producer) J. Edgar...

“Why fly fourteen hours from New York to Johannesburg to see a South African version of Brooklyn? To me, the only reason to know what destinations are ‘hot’ is to avoid them.” —Seth Kugel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth talk about how the travel industry both helps and hinders the travel experience, and how Seth first experienced travel when he was young (1:30); tourist desire, the “beaten path,” and the contradictions of what travelers seek in AirBnbs and related property-renting services (10:30); dealing with language barriers overseas, and social versus literal risks overseas (20:00); balancing general tourist advice versus nuanced insights as a travel writer, and the role new technologies play in travel decisions (27:00); and why it’s a good idea to avoid places that have been deemed “trendy,” and how to break out of the bad habits of travel (40:30). Seth Kugel (@sethkugel) is a travel writer, freelance journalist, and host of the Amigo Gringo YouTube channel. He was the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times from 2010 to 2016, and he is most recently the author of the book Rediscovering Travel: A Guide for the Globally Curious. For more on Seth, check out his website http://sethkugel.com/ Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Transnistria (breakaway part of Moldova) Nagorno-Karabakh (breakaway part of Azerbaijan) The World in a Selfie, by Marco D’Eramo (book) Principe Real (neighborhood in Lisbon) Wichita Vortex Sutra (poem by Allen Ginsberg) Nancy Mitford (English novelist) Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan (book) Arthur Frommer (guidebook writer) Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) Malcolm X (American activist and traveler) Bangkok Post (English-language newspaper in Thailand) Hindustan Times (English-language newspaper in India) “Free Fallin’” (song by Tom Petty) Punta Cana (resort town in the Dominican Republic) “Driving Through the Heartland,” by Seth Kugel (article) Chicken Annie’s and Chicken Mary’s (Kansas restaurants) Red Queen’s race...

“There’s no getting lost when you travel, because you’re already there. You’re already where you’re supposed to be, which is somewhere in this new place.” –Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, which took place at New York City’s KGB Bar, Rolf and Ari talk about the premise of Rolf’s new book The Vagabond’s Way (2:20); why it’s important not to postpone one’s dream travels to a seemingly more appropriate time of life, and how it’s hard for your friends to appreciate and understand your travels when you get home (7:30); how to not let your smartphones and photographs get in the way of your best journey (15:00); how to best decide where to start on a journey, and why allowing yourself to get lost is sometimes the best way to find experiences a place (23:00); why the philosophical concept of “time wealth” is important to Rolf, and how travel allows you to express a unique feeling freedom (31:30); how the The Vagabond’s Way is the “spiritual successor” to Vagabonding, and how Rolf keeps travel in conversation with his home life in Kansas (36:00); and how to savor a new place in the moment, even as that place is changing (44:00). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His new comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer creative writing classes) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Henry Rollins on Ari’s podcast Skeptic Tank Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) Jasmin Shah (photographer) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Matsuo Bashō, (Japanese poet and traveler) On Photography, by Susan Sontag (book) Mentawai people (inhabitants of islands near Sumatra) Cypress Hill (American hip-hop group) Pico Iyer (travel writer) Pagan Holiday, by Tony Perrottet (book) Icelandic Sagas (Nordic historic narratives) Koshary (Egyptian national dish) Chefchaouen (city in Morocco) Tétouan (city in Morocco) Inle Lake (lake in Myanmar) Eddy L. Harris (travel writer) Aosta Valley (region in the Italian Alps) Instagram shot of Rolf’s first vagabonding trip Mary Oliver (American poet) Lindsborg, Kansas (“Little Sweden”)

“Travel is often one part geography and nine parts imagination.” –Kate Harris In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Kate discuss how travel can transform one’s idea of what “exploration” is (3:00); the concept of borders (14:00); nostalgia and the transformational effect of travel (25:00); the role of home in relation to travel (34:00); and letting adventure into your life (44:00). Kate Harris (@kateonmars) is an adventure writer, named by Condé Nast Traveler as one of the “world’s most adventurous women.” Her work has appeared in Outside, The Walrus, and Georgia Review. Her book, Lands of Lost Borders, is a national bestseller For more about Kate, check out www.kateharris.ca Notable Links: Rolf’s Q&A with Kate Harris (book foreword) Silk Road (network of trade routes) Ernest Shackleton (explorer) Fridtjof Nansen (explorer) Annie Dillard (American author) Wind, Sand and Stars, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (book) Henry David Thoreau (writer) My Journey to Lhasa, by Alexandra David-Neel (book) Aksai Chin (region administered by China) Marco Polo (historical figure) Tomas Tranströmer (poet) Atlin (community in British Columbia) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I didn’t know where we were going, and I didn’t know how long we were going to be gone. I brought no food, not even a bottle of water. When that boat left the dock, I felt so free. I threw off all these anxieties about control.” –Carl Hoffman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Carl talk about the premise of The Lunatic Express, which took Carl around the world on a series of local buses, trains, planes, and ferries (2:30); how to overcome the common fears of traveling in this manner, and how tourism infrastructure isn’t required for travel in places (9:30); how making yourself vulnerable to new places leaves you open to the people who live there (22:30); the role that simple conversation, smells, and open-ended activity plays in the lives of isolated communities (30:00); and Carl’s advice for leaving yourself open to spontaneous travel experiences (40:00). Carl Hoffman (@lunaticcarl) is the author of four books, including The Lunatic Express, and Savage Harvest: A Tale of Cannibals, Colonialism, and Michael Rockefeller’s Tragic Quest. Notable Links: People, Places & Things (play starring Kristen Bush) Meridian Hill Park (urban park in DC) Maggie Downs (travel writer) “Strange Bird” (Outside article about a pilot in the Congo) Moluccas (archipelago in Indonesia) Asmat (region in Papua) Sambal (Indonesian chili sauce) Buru (island in Indonesia) Pramoedya Ananta Toer (Indonesian novelist) Suharto (Indonesian president from 1967-1998) Sons of the Waves, by Stephen Taylor (book about sailors) Sago (palm starch used for food) Cando (town in North Dakota) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Eat what is put in front of you. They are not making fun of you. The rooster’s head floating in the soup really is given to the honored guest. If you insist on being a picky eater, stay home.” –Tim Cahill In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim talk about the premise of Tim’s classic essay “Professor Cahill’s Travel 101” (1:30); the importance of having a “quest” on a journey (8:00); how boredom can enhance the experience of travel, and why rest-days are important to a journey (15:00); why one should avoid whining (and compulsively talking about bowel movements) on group journeys (21:00); why packing too much gear — and obsessively trying to save money on the road — can be counterproductive to engaged travel (25:00); why it’s important to be daring with trying new food on the road (40:00); and why bad travel experiences make for better stories than pleasant ones (45:00). Tim Cahill is a journalist, author, and pioneering travel writer. For more from Tim, check out his Rolling Stone and Outside archives, or his 2004 Q&A with Rolf. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Outside (magazine) Hold the Enlightenment, by Tim Cahill (book) Stoicism (ancient philosophy) Royal Commentaries of the Incas, by Garcilaso de la Vega (book) Francisco Pizarro (Spanish conquistador) Book Passage Travel Writers Conference The Old Patagonian Express, by Paul Theroux (book) Uinta Mountains (mountain range in Utah) 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre Fish River Canyon (canyon in Namibia) Richard Bangs (travel-TV host and author) Leimebamba (province in Peru) Skua (predatory seabirds common in Antarctic regions) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“When you’re not sitting across from someone, you’re sitting across from the whole world.” –Stephanie Rosenbloom In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie talk about the rewards of traveling alone, and how to mix solo and companion travel within a single trip (2:00); how going alone makes you more receptive to museums, restaurants, and walking in a new play (11:00); how to better savor your travel experiences while they’re happening (21:00); certifying versus savoring experiences, and how to balance travel as an external act with a more spiritual internal process (31:00); and strategies for savoring solo travel experiences (46:00). Stephanie Rosenbloom (@stephronyt) is a travel writer for The New York Times, where she has been a reporter for more than a decade, and the author of the book, Alone Time: Four Seasons, Four Cities, and the Pleasures of Solitude. For more about Stephanie, check out http://www.stephanierosenbloom.com. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) On Karawa (Japanese conceptual artist) Flâneur (urban stroller in France) The Marais (district in Paris) The Motorcycle Diaries, by Ernesto Guevara (book) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) Savoring, by Fred B. Bryant (book) Uffizi (art museum in Florence, Italy) The Birth of Venus (painting by Botticelli) LiveTrekker (route-tracking app) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Busking (street performance) Evernote (task-management app) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“A travel journal helps you remember more than what you did and saw. It will helps you remember how you became the person you are today.” –Lavinia Spalding In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Lavinia talk about the section of Rolf’s book The Vagabond’s Way that touches on travel journaling, what what purposes a travel journal can serve (1:30); how journals give you perspective on the person you used to be, and how the journaling habit develops over time (9:00); strategies for being vulnerable and honest in a travel journal (15:00); strategies for being consistent with a journal on the road (19:00); employing non-visual senses and evoking less-than-ideal experiences to capture more subtle textures in a travel journal (25:30); how a journal gives you a pretext to approach and even interview people who interest you on the road (33:00); how to take notes in the field, how to maintain an ongoing relationship with old travel journals, and why travel journals serve to make a journey more meaningful (41:00). Lavinia Spalding (@laviniaspalding) is a travel writer and series editor of The Best Women’s Travel Writing. She has author of Writing Away, and co-author of With a Measure of Grace and This Immeasurable Place. For more about Lavinia, check out http://laviniaspalding.com/. Notable Links: Jack London (novelist and journalist) Busan (city in South Korea) Before Sunrise (1995 Richard Linklater movie) Bullet journal (method of note-taking) Clove cigarettes Rainer Maria Rilke (Austrian poet) Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche (Buddhist lama) Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes (children’s song) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Travel Writing and Global Change (TEDx talk by Lavinia Spalding) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“When you travel, you find out what it is you really want. You find out what you’re capable of, what your ambitions are.” –Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about how brotherly conflict is a time-honored trope in literature, and how travel can be a way to find your interests and ambitions in life (3:00); the ethical paradoxes and hypocrisies of global charities and industries in a resource-rich place like Africa (9:30); how writing fiction differs from writing nonfiction (19:00); and where Theroux is headed next (22:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar,  The Tao of Travel, and  On the Plain of Snakes. His newest novel is The Bad Angel Brothers. Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) Paul Theroux on the art of listening (Deviate episode) Paul Theroux on the inherent complexity of Mexico (Deviate episode) The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux (travel book) Figures in a Landscape, by Paul Theroux (essay collection) Cain and Abel (Biblical brothers) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (novel) Cobalt mining in Africa Tim Cook (CEO of Apple, Inc.) Big-box store (large-scale retail system) Chinese industry in Africa NAFTA (free-trade agreement) Malawi (country in southeastern Africa) Phil Knight (CEO of Nike) Dark Star Safari, by Paul Theroux (travel book) PrairyErth, by William Least Heat-Moon (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“This is your one life. Think about it: If you dream of travel, it’s not as hard as you might think. You can find ways to make it happen.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about how “vagabonding” is defined, how Rolf has come to define home, and what the premise of The Vagabond’s Way is (2:00); how Rolf researched and organized the quotes and anecdotes and philosophies that went into the book (10:00); how mistakes and misadventures are an inevitable part of the travel process, and how time is one’s truest form of wealth (14:30); how the quiet experience of travel counts for more in life than travel that is performed for status (20:00); how no amount of planning can prepare you for the discoveries of each new day on the road, and how curiosity is more important than expertise on the road (27:30); how over-dependence on technology can compromise the novel experience of travel (33:30); advice for people leaving their country for the first time, advice for people traveling inside the US, and advice for keeping travel fresh over the long-term (38:00). Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation. Notable Links: Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Mary Oliver (American poet) Ross Gay (American poet and essayist) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) Commonplace book (compilation of knowledge) “Song of the Open Road,” by Walt Whitman (poem) Memento mori (philosophy) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Damara (mountain-dwelling people in Namibia) Duvall Street (tourist district on Key West) Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) Randang (Minangkabau meat dish) Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) Isan (rural northeastern region of Thailand) Sørumsand (town in Norway) Fly Brother Season Two (TV show season) Junction City (town in Kansas) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu

“I didn’t go to Africa to “feel African,” or become African. What I wanted to do was put myself in the shoes of the person I was traveling next to.” –Eddy L. Harris In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eddy discuss why Eddy’s Africa travel book Native Stranger was not always well-received by America’s cultural gatekeepers in 1992 (3:30); what is was like for Eddy to travel as a Black American in Africa in the 1990s, and how his experiences there became a book (12:30); how Africa has changed, and is changing (24:00); observations of Native Stranger that Rolf quoted in The Vagabond’s Way, such as how to deal with beggars on the road (30:00); and Eddy’s experiences being a Black American in France, and his core motivation for travel (37:00). Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of several books, including Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Notable Links: Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) South of Haunted Dreams, by Eddy L. Harris (travel book) Malcolm X (American activist) Alex Haley (American author) Jufureh (town in the Gambia) Taxi Brousse (share taxi common in Africa) Soho Square (garden square in London) Cape Coast Castle (“slave pen” fort in Ghana) Mobutu Sese Seko (ruler of Zaire from 1965 to 1997) Robert Mugabe (ruler of Zimbabwe from 1980 to 2017) Albert Pujols (baseball player) Central African Republic (nation) Josephine Baker (American dancer who moved to France) Normandy (region in France) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they’ll think of reasons why you shouldn’t go there.” –Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it’s like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes Ari from The Vagabond’s Way about why it’s OK to get lost when you travel, and what it’s like when you wander out of tourist zones in another country (22:30); and how naysayers can preempt your travel ambitions if you listen to them (46:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (travel writing class) Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) The Vagabond’s Way (Rolf’s newest book) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Deviate Live in NYC (podcast episode) Thích Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Callback (comedy) Xylia Buros: Nomad (podcast episode) The Book of Delights, by Ross Gay (book) High Times (magazine) Chefchaouen (town in Morocco) Tétouan (city in Morocco) Tataouine (city in Tunisia) Farang (Asian slang for white European) Kathoey (trans identity in Thailand) Boney M (Caribbean pop group) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Felucca (Egyptian boat) Temple of Hatshepsut (Egyptian temple) Dili (city in East Timor) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“At its best, travel is embraced not as a flashy backdrop for our lifestyle ambitions, but as an act that touches every aspect of our being.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads the introduction chapter from his latest book, The Vagabond’s Way, which debuts on October 4th (and is available for preorder now from your favorite bookstore).

“I think sometimes as travel writers our most important job is to be a listener — to listen to the stories that people are telling each other in a place.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about why home is such an important place in one’s life, even when one travels to more far-flung places (3:00); why the vagabonding ethos begins with the willingness to give oneself permission to travel in life, and how Rolf’s new book, The Vagabond’s Way, furthers the vagabonding ethos in a daily-reading format (15:00); the difficulty of figuring out which place in the world is your “favorite,” and how food becomes a part of one’s iconic travel memories (32:00); and why it helps to be confident and “ride tall in the saddle” if you sometimes feel out of place as a traveler (41:00). Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation. Ernest will moderate Rolf’s virtual launch event for The Vagabond’s Way at 5pm PT on October 4th, 2022. Notable Links: TV host Ernest White II (Deviate episode two) “Pandemic love” Deviate episode Deviate episode with filmmaker Rod Pocowatchit Deviate episode with baseball historian Phil S. Dixon Kansas City Monarchs (Negro Leagues baseball team) Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) Nicodemus, Kansas (town settled by African Americans) Lindsborg, Kansas (Swedish-American town in Kansas) Zacatecas (state in Mexico) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Expat life in Korea (Deviate episode) Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) Matsuo Bashō (medieval Japanese poet and traveler) Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) Muhammad Ali (boxer) Code-switching (situational linguistic alternation) https://rolfpotts.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Fly-Brother-Kansas.mp4 The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu

“One thing we like to say [in Antarctica] is that nothing on the continent can kill you, except for the entire continent.”  –Karen Pszonka In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Karen talk about how Karen first got a job in Antarctica (1:40); what weather is like during the Antarctic winter, the research being done at McMurdo, and a penguin named “Buddy” (8:00); what the landscape working conditions, and living conditions are like in Antartica (24:00); what community life is like among the people who live and work in Antarctica (42:15); and the best and worst aspects of working in Antarctica, and how one might go about applying for a job there (1:02:00). Karen Pszonka (@zonks) works as support staff for the United States Antarctic Program‘s science research at McMurdo Station. Notable Links: Ice Bound, by Dr. Jerri Nielsen (book) Terra Incognita: Travels in Antarctica, by Sara Wheeler (book) Doomsday Glacier (Antarctic glacier) Europa (moon of the planet Jupiter) IceCube (neutrino observatory at the South Pole) Sea spider (marine arthropod) Ob tube (research instrument) Sea angel (type of sea slug) Royal Society Range (mountain range in Antarctica) Hut Point (peninsula in Antarctica) Medevac (medical evacuation) Manhauling (human-powered sledges) The Nutcracker (ballet) Skua (type of bird) U.S. Antarctic Program job opportunities The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I told him, ‘You didn’t have a long, lucrative NBA career, but that doesn’t make you a failure. Yet if you let other people tell your story, that’s how you’re going to be depicted.”  –Dr. Kevin Harrison In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how Kevin started writing what he calls “smut novels,” how he sold them at the grassroots level, and how people reacted to them (3:30); what it’s like to represent lesser-known places like Wichita in urban fiction and other writing, and how Kevin came to co-write NBA player Korleone Young’s book (20:00); and the way Kevin’s music is another form of storytelling that draws on specific experiences and places (29:30). Dr. Kevin Harrison is a writer, musician, and assistant teaching professor at Wichita State University. He is the author of Cameron Banks: The Reality Show, and co-author of One and Done: The Korleone Young Story. Notable Links: Urban fiction (literary genre) Kaye-Monk-Morgan on Deviate Korleone Young (basketball player) Zane (erotic fiction author) Oliver Twist (Charles Dickens novel) Iceberg Slim (writer and former pimp) Dolemite (Rudy May Moore film) Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) She’s Gotta Have It (1986 Spike Lee film) Selena Montgomery (pen name of politician Stacey Abrams) Barry Sanders (football player) Curtis McClinton (football player) The Forgotten Phenom, by Jonathan Abrams (article) LeBron James (basketball player) Hot Water Cornbread (Kevin Harrison song) Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don’t know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo’s “interfaith dialogue” initiatives at Deir Mar Musa  (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the Syrian government cracked down on dissent and protest in 2011 (29:00); and how Father Paolo’s monastery fostered interfaith dialogue over debate, and what his legacy is in Syria (43:00). Shaun O’Neill is the author of A Church of Islam: The Syrian Calling of Father Paolo Dall’Oglio. Notable Links: The strangers we meet on the road (Deviate episode) Paolo Dall’Oglio (Italian priest and peace activist) Deir Mar Musa (Christian monastery in Syria) 2011 Syrian uprising (phase of the Arab Spring) Sufism (mystic Islamic practice) Neuromancer, by William Gibson (novel) Tahrir Square (public area in Cairo) Hafez al-Assad (Syrian president from 1971-2000) Kurdish Syria (northeast part of the country) Alawites (ethnoreligious group) Interfaith dialogue (interaction between religious traditions) Desert Fathers (early Christian monks) Free Syrian Army (civil war faction) Daesh (militant Islamists in Syria and Iraq) Pope John Paul II (Catholic leader) Of Gods and Men (2010 film) Frans van der Lugt (Dutch priest killed in Syria) Syncretism (combining of different beliefs) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The noun part of “writer” seems to require outside validation, but the verb part of it — “writing” — is something you’re either doing or you’re not.”  –Matt Bell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about the importance of creative persistence and obsession (1:45); the importance of maintaining creative discipline and keeping concrete track of your progress (8:00); “swooper” versus “basher” writers, and approaches to revision (14:00); the importance of place to narrative, and its role in research (21:15); how point-of-view affects a narrative (30:00); the important of “inciting incidents” and other techniques of narrative structure (38:00); strategies for getting “unstuck” in a narrative (42:30); and counterintuitive strategies for revising a creative work (52:00). Novelist Matt Bell (@mdbell79) is the author of several books, including, most recently, Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts. Notable Links: National Novel Writing Month (creative writing event) Lauren Groff (novelist) IKEA (ready-to-assemble furniture) Anne Lamott (author) Kurt Vonnegut (author) Iceberg theory (writing technique) Appleseed (novel by Matt Bell) Scandinavian noir (genre of crime fiction) William Inge (playwright) Orpheus and Eurydice (Greek legend) Point of view (narrative mode) Graham Greene (novelist and travel writer) Poetics (work of dramatic theory by Aristotle) Amy Tan (author) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.”  –Marcia DeSanctis In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself (30:00). Marcia DeSanctis (marciadesanctis1) is a Contributing Writer for Travel + Leisure. Her 2022 essay collection is entitled A Hard Place to Leave: Stories from a Restless Life. Notable Links: Barbara Walters (American TV host) Muammar Gaddafi (Libyan revolutionary) The Millions (online literary magazine) Souvenir, book by Rolf Potts (book) Alexander Pushkin (Russian poet) Kievan Rus’ (medieval state) Leningrad (former name of St. Petersburg) Trans–Mongolian Railway (Asian train route) A&E Biography (TV program) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00). Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/. Notable Links: School of Travel (podcast) The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Paris Writing Workshops World Domination Summit (event) Ryan Holiday (author) Scrivener (note management application) Evernote (note management application) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“”Curiosity is contagious.”  –Sophia Bentaher In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophia talk about structuring journey around specific passions and obsessions, and her own decision to hitchhike Europe in search of pastry recipes (2:00); how your national or ethnic identity affects how you are seen as a traveler (13:00); Sophia’s experiences as a woman hitchhiker in places like France, Switzerland and Italy, and how she documented her experiences on a spreadsheet (21:00); how the quest for pastry transformed the journey (38:00); how the travel experience led her to open a pastry business in Marrakesh (49:00); and how processes and stories are sometimes more essential than outcomes (57:30). Sophia Bentaher (@sophiabnthr) is a food traveler and writer, with a French-Moroccan background. Her obsession for food, specifically desserts, led her to drop a 9-5 lifestyle and go explore Europe to learn a traditional cake recipe in each country. Notable Links: The Wet and the Dry, by Laurence Osborne (book) American Chinatown, by Bonnie Tsui (book) Excel (spreadsheet software) Hero’s journey (mythology template) Wanderjahre or Compagnons du Devoir (learning journey) Third culture kid (cross-cultural identity) Crostata (Italian tart) Cornes de Gazelle (Moroccan cookie) The Alchemist (novel) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The pathless path is an embrace of uncertainty and discomfort. It’s a call to adventure in a world that tells us to conform.”  –Paul Millerd In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about American ideas of success, what these ideas mean, and how certain kinds of success don’t improve one’s life-path (1:30); how Paul used travel and overseas living to reinvent his relationship to time and help put himself on the pathless path (16:30); how we instinctively sense when we’re on a wrong path, and what to do when we feel this way (30:00); and Paul’s ten principles for embracing the pathless path (40:00). Paul Millerd (@p_millerd) is a strategy consultant, and the author of The Pathless Path: Imagining a New Story for Work and Life. Notable Links: Wu wei (Taoist concept of inaction) Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) Jerry Colonna (financier) Seth Godin (author) Tim Ferriss (author and podcaster) Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (writer) Ten ways to embrace the pathless path: 1) Question the default 2) Reflect 3) Figure out what you have to offer 4) Pause and disconnect 5) Go make a friend 6) Go make something 7) Give generously 8) Experiment 9) Commit 10) Be patient The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.”  –Jonathan Reisman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00). Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor’s Journey Through the Hidden Wonders of Human Anatomy. Notable Links: Jet lag (physiological condition) Travelers’ diarrhea (intestinal infection) Gastritis (stomach inflammation) Sinusitis (inflammation of the sinuses) Kamchatka (peninsula in the Russian Far East) Haggis (Scottish savory pudding) Cholesterol (steroid alcohol found in fat) Triglycerides (constituent of body fat) Endocrine organ (part of the body’s hormonal system) Pineal gland (endocrine gland that secretes melatonin) Ambien (medicine for sleeping problems) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.”  –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an “adventurer” is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one’s audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00). Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer. Notable Links: Bill Tillman (20th century English mountaineer) Bear Grylls (British adventurer) Microadventures, by Alastair Humphreys (book) Buffer (social-media managing application) “Five-Bullet Friday” (Tim Ferriss email newsletter) Google Forms (survey software) Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, by Gary Vaynerchuk (book) Alastair Humphreys newsletters Austin Kleon weekly newsletter Kindle Direct Publishing (self-publishing platform) Creative Penn (website for writers) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.”  –Colleen Kinder In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf’s memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it’s like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00). Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us. Colleen’s magazine Off Assignment accepts “Letter to a Stranger” submissions from all manner of travelers. If you’d like to submit an 800-1500-word letter to an unshakeable stranger you’ve met on the road, please read the magazine’s submission guidelines. Notable Links: Leslie Jamison (essayist) Pico Iyer (travel author) Interview with Julia Cooke (Deviate episode) Lavinia Spalding (travel author) “To a Stranger,” by Walt Whitman (poem) Ficar (Brazilian Portuguese slang) Speed dating (matchmaking process) Hijab (garment worn by some Muslim women) “Blot Out,” (Egypt essay by Colleen Kinder) Craig Mod (writer) Before Sunrise (1995 travel movie) Ajijic (Mexican town popular with retiree expats) Leaving the Atocha Station (novel by Ben Lerner) Semester at Sea (study-abroad program) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it’s like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one’s own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30). Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of “The A.T. With You & Me,” a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors) The World Beneath Your Feet (documentary) Matt Green interview (Deviate episode) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Lower East Side Tenement Museum (NYC museum) What narrative therapy is (Deviate episode) Commonplace book (journal method) Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking) Walt Whitman (American poet) Standing on the shoulders of giants (metaphor) Ed Buryn interview (Deviate episode) Asheville (city in North Carolina) 52 Places to Visit in 2022 (New York Times article) Gary Snyder (American poet) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“My pandemic essay was so badly received; I got massively dragged on Twitter for it, practically canceled. And then it ended up in Best American Travel Writing.”  –Meghan Daum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Meghan discuss what it means to be called “the voice of a generation” (4:00); why Meghan moved to Nebraska early in her career, and what it’s like to live and create in the provinces versus the metropole (9:20); the difficulty of continuing to make a living as a creative person, and mid-life career reinvention (16:00); Meghan’s essay about moving to rural Virginia during the pandemic, how it was poorly received, and her anxieties about living as a “geoarbitrage” outsider (22:30); Meghan’s career pivot into commenting on the culture wars, and how social media algorithms made this cultural rift more of an issue (35:00); and Rolf’s concerns that the politicization and performative certainty of social discourse will make young people less open to the vulnerabilities and uncertainties of travel (44:45). Meghan Daum (@meghan_daum) is the host of The Unspeakable Podcast and is the author of six books. Her most recent book, The Problem With Everything: My Journey Through The New Culture Wars, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019 and is just out in paperback. Notable Links: Girls (HBO TV series) Rolf’s Atlantic essay about Girls (2012 article) My Misspent Youth, by Meghan Daum (essay collection) Sophfronia Scott on Deviate (podcast episode) The GenX Reader, by Douglas Rushkoff (essay collection) X Saves the World, by Jeff Gordonier (book) Quality of Life Report, by Meghan Daum (novel) I Left NYC for Greener Pastures, by Meghan Daum (essay) Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-design strategy) Culture war (values conflict within a society) Alexander Kinglake (19th century English author) The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman (book) Cultural appropriation Michel Foucault (French theorist) Quick Studies: The Best of Lingua Franca (criticism anthology) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We don’t have a lot of time on this earth. When you get to my age you’ve got to use it wisely. The thing I object to most is people wasting my time.”  – Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar,  The Tao of Travel, and  On the Plain of Snakes. Notable Links: Sinclair Lewis (writer) William Faulkner (writer) Jorge Luis Borges (writer) Gabriel García Márquez (writer) Magical Realism (style of fiction) James Joyce (writer) Aldous Huxley (writer) Jack Kerouac (writer) Rebecca West (writer) Harriet Doer (writer) Leonora Carrington (artist) The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, by B. Traven (novel) Nathaniel Philbrick (author) Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (book) Subcomandante Marcos (revolutionary) Zapatista Army of National Liberation (militant group) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Calculate what you spend on a daily basis at home for all your living expenses, cut that in half, and you’ll have a daily budget that can take you around the world indefinitely.”  –Tim Leffel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00). Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I realized that Justin Alexander was the latest person to disappear in a long history of travelers disappearing in India’s Parvati Valley. It’s a dark aspect of this really beautiful place.” – Harley Rustad In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Harley discuss how Harley learned of Justin Alexander’s story, why he chose to report it, and what makes travel to India unique (2:30); who Justin Alexander was, and what life events and desires led to him being a world traveler and social-media persona (8:00); what makes India’s Parvati Valley unique as a mountainous place where backpackers sometimes disappear, and how “India Syndrome” affects travelers (30:00); Justin’s decision to live in a cave in the Parvati Valley under the influence of a local sadhu (40:00); Justin’s August 2016 Facebook message to Rolf, the timeline of his life before his disappearance (47:30); speculations on what became of Justin after he was seen for the last time, and what his legacy is (57:00). Harley Rustad (@hmrustad) is the author of Lost in the Valley of Death: A Story of Obsession and Danger in the Himalayas, and Big Lonely Doug: The Story of One of Canada’s Last Great Trees. Notable Links: Adventures of Justin Alexander (Facebook page) Adventures of Justin (Instagram account) Adventures of Justin (YouTube channel) Chris McCandless (subject of Into the Wild) Timothy Treadwell (subject of Grizzly Man) Hippie Trail (1960s/1970s Asia travel subculture) Tom Brown Jr. (American survivalist) Royal Enfield (type of motorcycle) Mentawai Islands (archipelago near Sumatra) Hero’s Journey (mythic narrative template) Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) Sterling Hayden (actor and adventurer) Parvati Valley (mountainous region in India) Hashish (drug common in the Parvati Valley) India Syndrome (delusional state) Sadhu (Hindu religious ascetic) “Lost in the Valley of Death” (2018 Outside article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes (22:00); how finding new music is different in the era of online algorithms, versus what music curation was like before cassettes (33:00); and how music and music-nostalgia is generationally specific, according to what technology was used when a given generation was young (45:30). Zack Taylor is an actor and cinematographer, known for Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (2016). Notable Links: Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (film) Rondo Rolf essay and track listing High Fidelity (2000 movie) The Fall (English post-punk band) Kevin Young (poet and author) Gouache (type of paint) KROQ-FM (LA “alternative music” radio station) Siouxsie and the Banshees (English rock band) Fishbone (American rock band) Henry Rollins (musician) Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck (documentary film) Cut-up technique (art method popularized by William S. Burroughs) Payola (music industry practice) “Home Taping Is Killing Music” (1980s slogan) “It’s Raining Tacos” (Parry Gripp song) Lou Ottens (inventor of the cassette tape) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire” In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Introduction (00:35 – 11:20) Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss Klonopin (anxiety medication) Janis Ian (singer-songwriter) Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness) Literature of Desire essay (11:20 – 32:20) Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder) Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses) That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows) Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models) Pong (video game) Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line) Jay J. Armes (private investigator) JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial) “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly WishBookcom Sears Wish Book memories (32:20 – 50:10) Action figures (dolls marketed to boys) Toughskins (jeans for children) Huffy (bicycle brand) BEST (showroom retail store) “

“When you smell a place, that’s when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Baywatch (TV show) Damara (African ethnic group) Herrero (African ethnic group) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle) Pollyanna principle (positivity bias) Mursi (African ethnic group) FOMO (fear of missing out) The Beach (1996 novel) The Beach (2000 film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00). Van trip preparation and planning links: Digital nomadism (travel lifestyle) #VanLife (travel lifestyle) Composting toilet Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon (1982 book) On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book) Travels With Charley, by John Steinbeck (1962 book) Vanagon (Volkswagen van) Volkswagen Westfalia (camper van) Trangia (alcohol-burning camp-stove) A (literal) photo album from my 1994 van vagabonding trip (blog post) Links regarding early months of the 1994 trip: 924 Gilman Street (Berkeley punk club) Northridge earthquake (1994 earthquake) “The Mystical High Church of Luck” (Salon essay about Las Vegas) Lollapalooza (music festival) O. J. Simpson murder case (1994 media incident) USCGC Northwind (Coast Guard icebreaker) Bourbon Street (historic street in New Orleans) The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book) Fifth Ward (Houston neighborhood) Cops (TV show) Canton (town in Mississippi) In His Steps (Mississippi Christian outreach ministry)

“Life’s journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It’s been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travels have changed in the years since these stories were first written (19:00); what it’s like to create a home amid a life of travel, and how journaling feeds creative writing (26:00); and the new book Rolf is working on now (35:00). Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt) is the founder of TravelCon and the author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. The Nomadic Network is a global community of travel-enthusiasts who support and inspire one another to travel better, cheaper, and longer. Travel essays mentioned: “Storming The Beach“ (Thailand) ​”Going Native in the Australian Outback” (Australia) “Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel” (Egypt) “My Beirut Hostage Crisis” (Lebanon) “Be Your Own Donkey” (Egypt) “Turkish Knockout” (Turkey) Notable links: Paris Writing Workshops (writing class) ​Travelers Tales (publisher) Wilfred Thesiger (travel writer) Gertrude Bell (travel writer) American Notes, by Charles Dickens (travelogue) Herodotus (Greek historian) Best Hostel Ever (Deviate episode) Whodunit (storytelling genre) Bootsnall (travel community) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) Tracy Kidder (journalist) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“You open up a map, and it’s like, ‘I could go anywhere here.’ It’s just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws — it’s creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo’s 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf’s creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00). Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN, and his projects (such as his 3 Clips podcast) aim to demystify the creative process behind creating memorable projects, careers, and companies. Notable Links: Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Idiosyncrasies of global train travel (Deviate episode) Thich Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Paris Writing Workshops (creative writing class) Guildhall School of Music and Drama Archive of Deviate episodes with Ari Shaffir Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) The Rewatchables (movie podcast) Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) J. Yuenger on music and long-term travel (Deviate episode) Ian MacKaye on rock music (Deviate episode) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR. Notable Links: Konza Prairie (biological preserve) Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve Kanopolis State Park Stiefel Theater “One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn’t Even Realize It Yet” (Thrillist article) Dollywood (theme park) Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) Gooding (band) 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) Oregon Shakespeare Festival Transcendental Meditation Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) Terminal Gravity (brewery) Maharishi Vastu Architecture Audio contributors: Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) Deborah Lewis (...

“Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading.” – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine’s audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America’s oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was. Notable Links: Holiday Magazine (travel publication) See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) Ladies’ Home Journal (American women’s magazine) Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) Ted Patrick (magazine editor) Joan Didion (American essayist) Roger Angell (American essayist) Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) Mad Men (TV show about advertising) Big Sur (coastal region of central California) Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It’s how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important.” – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it’s like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based. Notable Links: Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) Monty Python (British comedy troupe) Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) Pankration (ancient fighting sport) Ben Hur (epic historical movie) Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) 300 (2007 epic historical movie) Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Don’t define your journey while you’re still on it. Be open to it. Don’t think it’s only going to be one way.” – Paul Barach In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul discuss why Paul chose Japan for a pilgrimage, and the seven categories of disciplines he used on the hike (1:40); the route and history of the Shikoku Pilgrimage (9:40); Paul’s experiences on the trail (21:00); and Paul’s lessons and regrets from the trip, including why you shouldn’t define your journey while you’re still on it (34:30). Paul Barach is a stand-up comic, storyteller, producer, and writer. He is the author of Fighting Monks and Burning Mountains, about his experience hiking the Shikoku Pilgrimage trail. Notable Links: Kūkai (Japanese Buddhist monk) Burning Mountain Temple (Shikoku pilgrimage site) Camino de Santiago (Spain pilgrimage route) Shikoku Henro Trail (online resource) Ryokan (Japanese inn) Kyokushin (karate style) Gōjū-ryū (karate style) Ichiro Suzuki (Japanese baseball player) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel is life’s best education, if you allow it be.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one’s writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one’s travels and one’s work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to navigate relationships as a traveler (41:30); the weird ways souvenirs can deepen the experience and memory of travel (46:00); and Rolf’s life advice to his younger self (50:00). Max McCoy is the host of the Looking Up podcast. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) Time Wealth and the spiritual texture of travel (Deviate episode) Thomas Merton (American monk and writer) Rumi (13th-century Persian poet) Stephen King (American horror author) Astronaut pen (writing tool) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s writing classes) Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-location strategy) Robert Creeley (American poet) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) One Month On the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) Donald Barthelme (American author) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Digital nomadism is still being figured out. In twenty years digital nomadism will have a concrete reality that we can’t even predict now.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, which is excerpted from an in-progress documentary called The Nomads, filmmaker Anne von Petersdorff asks Rolf to discuss how digital nomadism is defined, how it has emerged from earlier generations of travel and human mobility, and how it is more than just a “Western” trend (3:00); how the digital nomad movement will affect the nation-state and global citizenship, and how these notions have historically always been in flux (10:00); the importance of respecting local cultures versus treating destinations as utilitarian backdrops, and how the concept of digital nomadism is changing (24:00); and what happens to the concept of “home” when one is leading a nomadic life (32:30). Anne von Petersdorff is a scholar, writer, filmmaker, and educator from Berlin, Germany. Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact producer Wade Shepard at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle) Nation-state (political unit) Social welfare (government support for individuals) Go Viral (media festival in Kazakhstan) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin (travel book) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Grand Tour (upper-class 18th/19th century travel ritual) Thomas Cook (19th century travel entrepreneur) Dispatches, by Michael Herr (Vietnam War book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Stewardesses were instructed to not serve caffeinated beverages or alcohol during a hijacking, and were encouraged to use their femininity to manipulate the hijackers.” – Julia Cooke In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julia talk about how Julia came to write a book about international airline stewardesses in the golden age of jet travel, and how commercial air travel as we know it came of age more than half a century ago (1:30); what Pan Am was, what made it special, and the role of stewardesses on the airline (11:00); the former Pan Am stewardesses that Julia interviewed, how she found them, and what she learned from them (18:30); how stewardesses foreshadowed and became a unique part of the feminist movement (26:00); how military flights, refugee flights, and hijackings were a common part of the Pan Am flight experience in the 1970s (30:00); and the research methods and surprises that came with writing Julia’s book (41:00). Julia Cooke (@juliaccooke) has written for Condé Nast Traveler, The New York Times, Playboy, The Village Voice, and The Atavist. She is the author of Come Fly The World and The Other Side of Paradise: Life in the New Cuba. More about her at https://www.juliacooke.com/ Notable Links: PanAm (airline) Eero Saarinen (architect) Paul Theroux (author) Italo Calvino (author) Second wave of feminism (social movement) The Power of Glamour, by Virginia Postrel (book) Internationalism (movement) Coffee, Tea, or Me? (fictitious 1967 memoir) The Skies Belong to Us, by Brendan I. Koerner (book) Barbara Romack (pro golfer) Flag carrier (type of airline company) Operation Babylift (1975 evacuation of children from Vietnam) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Wanderlust can dictate the course of your life.” – Dave Seminara In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dave discuss the philosophical underpinnings of wanderlust (2:00); the subculture of competitive travelers (10:00); the mystery of William Baekeland (20:00); and the impact of wanderlust on peoples’ lives (44:00). Dave Seminara is a writer and former diplomat. His latest book, Mad Travelers: A Tale of Wanderlust, Greed and the Quest to Reach the Ends of the Earth, is a deep exploration of wanderlust, focused around the true story of William Baekeland, a young Brit who conned many of the world’s most traveled people as they sought to reach the planet’s most remote and off-limits places. For more about Dave, check out his website at https://daveseminara.com. Notable Links: Most Traveled People (club) Nomadmania (club) The Travelers’ Century Club (club) Charles Veley (traveler) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“This is a weird time to be grateful for, but I’m sure we’ll feel heaps of nostalgia for it.” – Kristen “Kiki” Bush In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki talk about how interacting with objects from your past (or getting rid of them) forces a kind of nostalgia on you (2:00); how cultural nostalgia can fall on generational lines, and how venues like YouTube curate generational nostalgia (7:30); how nostalgia can hinge on sports and music from the past, how going to concerts to reconnect with times of your life, and the phenomena known as the “nostalgia bump” (12:00); how journals are a way to collect and hold on to moments and memories, and what it feels like to revisit them (24:00); how technology has changed the way we interact with other people, as well as the way we experience things and remember and revisit things (31:30); and how it’s hard to tell what from the current moment will evoke nostalgia later (36:00). Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center. Notable Links: A personal history of nostalgia (Deviate episode) Revisiting “American Pilgrim” (Deviate episode) Generation X (demographic cohort) Emergency! (TV show) Denny Matthews (Kansas City Royals announcer) Disintegration (1989 album by The Cure) Robert Smith (musician) Dillon’s (Kansas supermarket chain) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) “I Wanna Go Back” (Billy Satellite song sung by Eddie Money) “If You Don’t Know Me by Now” (1972 Harold Melvin song) Our Town (play by Thornton Wilder) The Joshua Tree (album by U2) 2017 Joshua Tree Tour (U2 30th anniversary album tour) Live Aid (1985 benefit concert) Achtung Baby (1991 U2 album) Kyuss (1990s rock band) Cleveland Browns (pro football team) NCIS: New Orleans (TV show) T

“For as much as we seek our paths and have questions about the journey, there is a sense deep within us, like a primeval compass, that shows we already know where to go.” – Sophfronia Scott In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophfronia talk about how they came to know of Merton, and how his journals reveal his truer self (2:00); being “spiritual but not religious,” the language of beholding versus the language of belief, and how interactions with nature are a spiritual exercise (9:00); human versus divine love, and how the most spiritual moments are often the most difficult ones in life (17:00); the importance of seeking a life of needing less, and how not be in a constant state of wanting (25:00); contemplation versus activism, learning to love people we do not agree with, and regulating desire in a world of abundance (34:30); and what Merton’s example can teach us in the 21st century, in an age of click-bait and decontextualized life (45:00). Sophfronia Scott (@Sophfronia) is the author of five books. Her newest, The Seeker and the Monk, is about Catholic writer and activist Thomas Merton. She last appeared on Deviate to discuss mid-life career change, and her role in defining Generation X. Notable Links: Thomas Merton (monk and writer) Merton Prayer Conjectures of a Guilt Bystander (1968 Merton book) The Seven Storey Mountain (1948 Merton autobiography) The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975 book) Festival of Faith and Writing Barbara Brown Taylor (theologian) New Seeds of Contemplation (1962 Merton book) Moonstruck (1987 movie) Abbey of Gethsemani (Merton’s monastery in Kentucky) Henri Nouwen (theologian) 2021 Capitol insurrection (attack on the U.S. Congress) Sandy Hook shooting (2012 mass shooting) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I came to live and work in Korea and walked out two years later way more equipped in life, not just as a traveler, but as a person.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friends Brian and Steve talk about the factors that led them to live and work in South Korea when they were in their twenties, and what they experienced when they first arrived (2:30); the cultural differences, idiosyncrasies, and lessons learned as expat English teachers during South Korea’s globalization boom-years (17:30); culture shock, North Korean provocations, anti-U.S. sentiment, and how what was “normal” was different in Korea than in the U.S. (30:00); drinking-culture, dating rituals, expat meltdowns, what they loved about being in Korea, and how it changed their lives (47:30). Notable Links: Lost Generation (Paris expats in the 1920s) Jeonju (city in South Korea) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Mid-20s crisis (quarter-life anxiety) Michael Bolton (American singer) Culture shock (cross-cultural disorientation) Confucianism (Asian system of behavior) Hagwon (private learning academies in Korea) Parasite (2019 South Korean movie) Chan-Ho Park (Korean MLB baseball player) Sunshine Policy (South Korean diplomacy) Dokdo (islet disputed between Korea and Japan) Busan (city in South Korea) Korean bathhouse (sex-segregated spas) Bosintang (Korean dog-meat strew) Man Bites Dog, by Rolf Potts (essay) Tico (small Daewoo car in the 1990s) Ondol (Korean heated floor) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you’re writing about — the figure in the landscape — is actually the ideal.” —Paul Theroux Paul Theroux‘s highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. His newest book, out this month, is Under the Wave at Waimea. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux’s book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the “human architecture of a place” (4:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (19:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (24:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (31:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (39:15); and where Paul is traveling next (45:00). Books, articles, and films mentioned “Paul Theroux on Blogging, Travel Writing, and ‘Three Cups of Tea’” (2011 Atlantic interview) The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux The Mosquito Coast, by Paul Theroux The Tao of Travel, by Paul Theroux Deep South, by Paul Theroux American Notes, by Charles Dickens Barbary Shore, by Norman Mailer Journey Without Maps, by Graham Greene Sea and Sardinia, by D.H. Lawrence Travels, by Ibn Battuta Travels, by Marco Polo Lafcadio Hearn’s Japan: An Anthology India: A Million Mutinies Now, by V.S. Naipaul “Paul Theroux’s Quest to Define Hawaii” (2012 Smithsonian article) “Mandalay,” by Rudyard Kipling (poem) Rashomon (1950 Akira Kurosawa film) The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943 film) People mentioned Doris Lessing (novelist and poet) Tom Wolfe (author and journalist) Robin Williams (actor and comedian) Elizabeth Taylor (actress) Michael Jackson (singer-songwriter) Rod Steiger (actor) Mike Nichols (film director)

“If you put Harrison Ford, Sting, and Andy Chapman in a room together in Kansas in 1981, the girls of Kansas would have trampled the actor and the rock star in an effort to get closer to the charismatic young soccer player.” – Rolf Potts In this essay episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the iconically 1980s sports phenomenon known as Major League Indoor Soccer, and how the league came about (5:00); his childhood fixation with the Wichita Wings, and how the presence of the pro soccer team and its players affected his mid-sized Kansas hometown (11:00); and the most famous game in MISL history, which pitted the Wings against the St. Louis Steamers, and what became of major league indoor soccer — and its legacy –as the 1980s wound down (23:00). God Save the Wings (@GodSaveTheWings) is a feature-length documentary about the Wichita Wings, an indoor soccer team of European party boys who went toe-to-toe with all major markets in the crazy 1980s. Its latest screening is April 12-18, 2021 at Kansas City FilmFest International. Tim O’Bryhim (@WichitaStory) is the producer of God Save the Wings, and co-author of Make This Town Big: The Story of Roy Turner and the Wichita Wings. Notable Links: Wichita Wings (indoor soccer team) NASL (American outdoor soccer league) Henry Kissinger (politician and diplomat) Pele (Brazilian soccer player) MISL (soccer league) Show, Sex, and Suburbs (Sports Illustrated article) Norman Lear (TV producer) Green Bay Packers (NFL football team) Krazy George (professional cheerleader) Andy Chapman (MISL soccer player) Nolan Ryan (baseball player) Tony Dorsett (football player) St. Louis Steamers (indoor soccer team) Slobo Ilijevski (MISL soccer player) Mike Dowler (MISL soccer player) New York Arrows (indoor soccer team) ESPN (sports TV network) FNN-Score (sports TV network) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album ...

“Baseball history needs to be looked at again. The statistics don’t make sense unless you understand the story that went behind those numbers.” – Phil S. Dixon In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Phil talk about the racial integration of Major League baseball in 1947, and the decades of high-level black baseball that came before it (4:00); how baseball was segregated in the 19th century, and why the Negro Leagues were formed in the early 20th (9:30); “barnstorming” baseball in local communities in places like Kansas, and what life on the road was like for these black teams (17:00); how Phil researched the history of the Negro Leagues, and the challenge of finding century-old game statistics (29:30); and how the Negro Leagues stars compare to other baseball players from history (39:00). Phil S. Dixon (@NegroLeagueMan) is the author of seven books about baseball, and cofounder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City. Notable Links: J. L. Wilkinson (owner of the Kansas City Monarchs) All Nations (barnstorming professional baseball team) Barnstorming (traveling sports matches) Bud Fowler (pre-segregation professional player) Pythian Baseball Club (19th century black baseball team) Moses Fleetwood Walker (baseball player) Rube Foster (founder of the Negro Leagues) Topeka Jack Johnson (baseball player) House of David (baseball team from a Michigan commune) Grover Cleveland Alexander (baseball player) George Giles (baseball player) Only the Ball Was White, by Robert Peterson (book) Negro Baseball Leagues: A Photographic History, by Phil S. Dixon (book) The 1931 Homestead Grays, by Phil S. Dixon (book) Buck O’Neil (baseball player, manager, and scout) Satchel Paige (baseball player) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Asking questions about travel, and exploring ways philosophy has changed travel, can help us think more deeply about our journeys.” – Emily Thomas In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Emily discuss the relationship between philosophy and travel (2:00); speculative fiction as a form of travel writing, and the relationship between feminism and travel (13:30); maps as a way of representing the world, and the aesthetic significance of mountains (24:00); beauty versus the sublime, and American naturalism and literature (32:00); and “cabin porn” and doom travel (40:00). Emily Thomas (@emilytwrites) is an Associate Professor in Philosophy at Durham University. She completed her PhD at the University of Cambridge, and has published extensively on the philosophy of space and time. She is  the author of The Meaning of Travel. For more about Emily, check out https://emilythomaswrites.co.uk. Notable Links: Age of Discovery (period of European exploration) Francis Bacon (philosopher) Robinson Crusoe, by Daniel Defoe (book) The Blazing World, by Margaret Cavendish (book) Mary Kingsley (explorer) Isabella Bird (explorer/writer) Mary Wollstonecraft (philosopher/writer) Egeria (pilgrim) Utopia, by Thomas More (book) Henry David Thoreau (philosopher/naturalist) Ralph Waldo Emerson (philosopher/essayist) Climate change (large-scale shift in global weather) Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer (book)

“How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay “Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process.” Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019. For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/ Notable Links: Santa Fe Writers Workshop “Some Kind of Calling,” by Pam Houston (essay) “Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love” (essay) Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book) My Antonia, by Willa Cather (novel) Alice Munro (author) Terry Tempest Williams (author) The Meadow, by James Galvan (book) West Fork Complex (2013 wildfire) This episode is brought you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “The Particular Beauty of Our Pared-Down Lives,” an online writing workshop featuring author Pam Houston (March 30 – April 15, 2021). The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In COVID times it’s harder to get on a plane and go hiking in, say, Austria or Italy. So we said, ‘why not do a 20-mile hike out of our back door?’” –Kristen Bush In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki sit in a Kansas town known as “Little Sweden” and talk about the joys and challenges of having walked 22 miles there the day before (3:00); the difference between urban, rural, and wilderness walking, how these experiences differ for men and women, and how the suffering of a long walk affects the experience (20:00); the subtle beauty, idiosyncrasies, and historical narratives contained a landscape like Kansas (28:00); Rolf and Kiki’s resumed hike to Coronado Heights, and how meeting a dog named “Larry” the day before made their day more interesting (41:00); how walking enforces a more deliberate pace of travel, and how people see you differently when you’re walking (53:00); how routine tasks like “using the toilet” or getting tired when you’re walking allow you to get in touch with your body in a new way (1:00:30); how walking frees you from having a “consumer” relationship to the world, and how it makes you realize the miracles inherent in everything (1:08:30); and an “Easter Egg” bonus about walking and silence (1:16:15). Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center. Notable Links: Lindsborg (Kansas town known as “Little Sweden”) Ol Stuga (restaurant-bar in Lindsborg) Grain elevator (building that stores grain) Flâneur (urban mode of walking) Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking) The Flaneur, by Edmund White (book about urban walking) Of Walking in Ice, by Werner Herzog (book) Christina’s World (painting by Andrew Wyeth) Larry Lapsley (African-American pioneer in Kansas) Nicodemus (Kansas town established by African-Americans) Coronado Heights (butte near Lindsborg) Dala horse (traditional Swedish carved horse) Hemslöjd (Swedish gift shop in Lindsborg) Edward Abbey (American author and essayist) Thomas Swick (travel writer) Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Vietnamese Thiền Buddhist monk and author) This episode is brought you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “The Particular Beauty of Our Pared-...

“The boundaries of life are responsible for the beauty of life.” – Pico Iyer In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico discuss the people we become when we travel (4:00); what led Pico to travel (10:00); travel in the age of technology (20:00); finding the remarkable in the unremarkable (32:00); ping pong as a metaphor for life (40:00); the importance of impermanence (50:00); and the idea of being versus becoming (1:01:00). Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and one of the most influential travel writers of his generation. He is known for such books as Video Night in Kathmandu and The Lady and the Monk, with many of his works receiving significant critical acclaim. He has also written for such publications as The New York Times, Time, and Harper’s. For more about Pico, check out http://picoiyerjourneys.com/ Notable Links: A Beginner’s Guide to Japan, by Pico Iyer (book) Autumn Light, by Pico Iyer (book) Walt Whitman (poet / essayist) John Muir (naturalist) Herman Melville (writer) Let’s Go (travel guide series) Salman Rushdie (writer) John Burroughs (naturalist / writer) This episode is brought to you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021). The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I learned so quickly that children change everything about travel.” –Bruce Kirkby In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Bruce discuss how Bruce got his travel-writing career started, and why he ended up traveling to a Tibetan Indian monastery with his young family (3:00); what it is like to travel overland with young kids in tow, from Canada to India, and how having a child on the autism spectrum affects the experience (12:30); what it was like to travel to Asia with a sixteen-person TV crew in tow (23:00); what it was like to life a low-tech offline life and teach English in a remote (yet changing) mountain region in Tibetan India (27:30); how Bruce and his family navigated the tension between tradition and modernity in Zanskar, and how being there for three months differs from a shorter visit (38:00). Bruce Kirkby (@bruce_kirkby) is a Canadian adventurer, photographer, and writer. His newest book, discussed in this episode, is Blue Sky Kingdom: An Epic Family Journey to the Heart of the Himalaya. More about Bruce and his career can be found at: http://brucekirkby.com/. Notable Links: Mergui Archipelago (group of islands in southern Myanmar) Family Ties (1980s TV show starring Michael J. Fox) Kate Harris (Canadian travel writer) Kate Harris on travel (Deviate podcast episode) Zanskar (mountain region in Tibetan India) Ladakh (union territory in India’s Kashmir region) Autism spectrum disorder (neurodevelopmental condition) Big Crazy Family Adventure (Travel Channel show) Long Way Round (TV travel doc featuring Ewan McGregor) Monkey mind (Buddhist concept) 14th Dalai Lama (Tibetan spiritual leader) Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage) Leh (capital city of Ladakh) Being a better bad tourist (Deviate episode) This episode is sponsored by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Three Simple Lines & The Color of Wind,” a hybrid writing-photography webinar featuring Natalie Goldberg and Eddie Soloway (January 27-29, 2021); and “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021). The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Riding trains offered a great chance to chat with people we’d never cross paths with in our lives normally.” –Monisha Rajesh In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel dates back to a series of journeys she took around India (2:00); her more recent experience of taking the Trans-Mongolian train across Russia and into Asia (14:00); what it was like to travel by train in North Korea, China, and Southeast Asia, and how they differ from European trains (28:00); what it was like to take trains across Canada and the United States, and which global trains Monisha likes best (45:00). Monisha Rajesh (@monisha_rajesh) is a travel journalist, and the author of Around India in 80 Trains, and Around the World in 80 Trains. She currently lives in London with her husband and two daughters. Notable Links: Indrail Pass (Indian rail-pass for foreign nationals) Saint Basil’s Cathedral (church in Moscow’s Red Square) Eurail Pass (rail-pass covering 33 European countries) Trans–Mongolian Railway (long-haul train route) Circum-Baikal Railway (railway in Russia’s Irkutsk region) War and Peace (novel by Leo Tolstoy) Game of Thrones (fantasy TV series) Korean State Railway (train system in North Korea) Southwest Chief (American Amtrak route) German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptist group) Qinghai–Tibet railway (Asian train route) Skeena (Canadian passenger train service) Mandovi Express (train route in India) Flight shaming (environmental social movement) Sunset Limited (American Amtrak route) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note

“The best experiences in life can be had for the price of showing up.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki take a road-trip to Colorado (with Salvie the cat yowling in his pet-carrier) and discuss how Rolf’s 2010 essay “5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home” can apply to home-life during a time of pandemic, including the notion that “Time = Wealth” (5:00); the importance of knowing how to “Be Where You Are” (8:30); the advantages of knowing when to “Slow Down” (20:00); the merit that comes in knowing how to “Keep it Simple” (25:00); and how life is more dynamic when you “Don’t Set Limits” (39:00). Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center. For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website. Notable Links: “5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home,” by Rolf Potts (essay) “A personal history of nostalgia” (Deviate episode) Late Night with Seth Meyers (news satire talk show) Rocky Mountain National Park (American wilderness area) Geographers’ A–Z (British street atlas) Thomas Guide (Los Angeles street atlas) Marie Kondo (Japanese organizing consultant and author) No Baggage Challenge (Rolf’s 2010 minimalist journey) Hoarders (reality TV series) Bumble (dating app) Atomium (landmark building in Brussels) Kanopolis State Park (hiking area in Kansas) Marquette Pioneer Trail (hiking area in Kansas) Lindsborg (Swedish-settler town in Kansas) Sterling (small-college town in Kansas) Coronado Heights (sandstone overlook in central Kansas) Richard Rohr (American spiritual writer) This Week in Flips (producer Justin Glow’s YouTube channel) This episode of Deviate alludes to Rolf’s...

“A lot of people seek out spiritual travel-sites without any ties to a specific religion: When they’re in Israel and they’ll go to the Western Wall and feel so spiritual there; a month later they’re in Thailand and they’ll go to a Buddhist retreat. They just glom on for a minute and play pretend.” – Ari Shaffir Note: Rolf is giving away copies of books by Deviate guests (like Paul Theroux, Kate Harris, and Chris Guillebeau) for people who buy Tortuga backpacks online, or who buy copies of Vagabonding at local independent bookstores. Just email a receipt (and, if applicable, a photo of yourself at your local bookseller) to deviate@rolfpotts.com, and Rolf will share a list of available books and mail a free copy of your choosing to any USA address. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s pilgrimage across Israel 20 years ago and why he took it, and Ari’s experiences there in a yeshiva and on a kibbutz as a young man (4:45); what it was like to walk in the agricultural north of Israel near the Sea of Galilee, and navigating the Jewish versus Arab cultural aspects of the country (15:00); longing as a part of travel, and what it was like to go to Israel as young man and see women in swimsuits after traveling in conservative Arab lands (29:00); the proliferation of Christian sites throughout Israel, getting picked up by Israeli girls while hitchhiking and going to Tel Aviv (36:00); the difference between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and what it was like to visit sites like the Wailing Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (51:00); Rolf’s experience of canvassing for a pub in Jerusalem as an act of self-abnegation, and fasting on the Mount of the Temptation near Jericho (1:13:00); and the tendency of some travelers to superficially embrace the local spiritual tradition in places like Israel and India and Thailand, and how travel is in itself a spiritual act (1:26:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Galilee (region in northern Israel) Orthodox Judaism (traditionalist Jewish sect) Yeshiva (Jewish educational institution) 613 commandments (tradition from the Torah) Messianic Judaism (sect that combines Christianity with Judaism) Oslo Accords (1993 Israel/PLO agreement) Yardenit (baptismal site on the Jordan River) Saint Helena (influential 4th century Christian pilgrim) Megiddo (ancient city site in Israel) South Lebanon Army (Christian militia) Jerusalem Syndrome (mental disorder) Wailing Wall (site in the Old City of Jerusalem) Al-Aqsa Mosque (Muslim site in Old City of Jerusalem) Via Dolorosa (processional route in the Old City of Jerusalem)

“Earnest, hard-won failure can teach you as much as anything.” – Rolf Potts Note: For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeremy discuss breaking into travel writing and learning through failure (4:00); what defines travel memoir, and how it’s different from other kinds of travel writing (11:00); the role of research in travel writing, and the balance between personal expression and reportage (17:00); the travel writing industry, and what topics are covered in Rolf’s Paris Writing Workshop (25:00); and how “flaneuring” in place like Paris can lend a new perspective on place (37:00). Jeremy Bassetti (@jeremybassetti) is a writer, editor, educator, and host of the Travel Writing World Podcast. His website, travelwritingworld.com, features interviews with travel writers, book reviews, author profiles, and resources for travel writers and their readers. For more about Jeremy, check out jeremybassetti.com. Notable Links: Storming the Beach, by Rolf Potts (essay) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) The Last Whalers, by Doug Bock Clark (book) Deviate interview with Doug Bock Clark (podcast) Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert (book) On the Plain of Snakes, by Paul Theroux (book) Deviate interview with Paul Theroux (podcast) Braver Than You Think, by Maggie Downs (book) Deviate interview with Maggie Downs (podcast) Writing Away, by Lavinia Spalding (book)

This episode of Deviate explores the benefits of minimalism (3:00); changing ones life philosophy and getting rid of bad habits (11:00); pragmatic approaches to personal finance and avoiding debt (20:00); living off the grid and life tips (29:00); and finding a life purpose (42:00). Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The perception that most Americans have about the original Thanksgiving is very much a Hallmark-card stereotype, where the native people and the colonists came together and broke bread and sang ‘Kumbaya.’ In truth, there was a great deal of trepidation on both sides.” – Paula Peters Full video episode In this episode of Deviate, Rolf presents an audio remix of American Pilgrim, the Thanksgiving Special he hosted for the Travel Channel in 2008. The episode begins with some contextual history of the Pilgrims’ voyage from England, and a visit to chef Bryant Alden’s kitchen in New Hampshire to discuss what food the Pilgrims ate (5:00); next, Rolf sails out of Plymouth Harbor with John Brewster, and learns about the sea conditions the Pilgrims faced coming over from England (12:00); at Mayflower Brewing Company in Plymouth, brewer Drew Brosseau talks about the importance of beer to the Pilgrims (17:00); elsewhere in Plymouth, Reverend Bill Fillebrown talks about how religious convictions shaped the lives of the Pilgrims (21:00); at Plimoth Plantation, indigenous descendants talk about relations between with Pilgrims and the native people in the area (27:30); in rural Connecticut, Rolf talks with farmer Courtland Kinnie about the Pilgrims’ agricultural practices (30:40); finally, at Fort Hood in Texas, U.S. Army Major Chuck Assadourian talks about the Pilgrims’ approach to defense and security (34:00). As the holiday season gets underway, a reminder that Rolf’s travel books make great Christmas stocking-stuffers. Vagabonding is a perennial gift favorite for travelers, though please also consider Rolf’s travel-essay collection Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, his travel-history book Souvenir, or his comic-book adaptation of an ancient Egyptian travel tale, The Misadventures of Wenamun. Fort Hood deleted scene Notable Links: Pilgrims (English settlers in North America) Plimoth Plantation (living history museum) Mayflower II (replica of 17th century ship) Wampanoag (Native American people) John Alden (Mayflower Pilgrim) Squanto (Patuxet tribal liaison) Pottage (thick stew) Edward Winslow (Mayflower Pilgrim) William Brewster (Mayflower Pilgrim) Mayflower Compact (governing document) Barque Eagle (U.S. Coast Guard training cutter) Mayflower Brewing Company (craft-beer business) Cooper (profession) William Bradford (Governor of the Plymouth Colony) Peregrine White (baby boy born on the Mayflo...