The Camino Podcast

Well before the Camino Francés was considered safe to walk, there was the Camino Primitivo, linking Oviedo--the center of a small, Christian enclave that was holding out in the northwest corner of the Iberian peninsula--with Santiago de Compostela and the recently rediscovered relics of St. James. In this four-part series, we will virtually walk the Primitivo together, bringing together experienced pilgrims and relevant experts in each episode. Part 2 focuses on a shorter section of the Primitivo, just 41 kilometers between Tineo and Berducedo, but it includes the most famous and talked about walk--the famous Ruta de los Hospitales. Lainey Silver and Shawn Forno (www.dayswespend.com) share stories from some soggy--and yet still exhilarating--walking in this section, including Spanish soap operas and an innovative use of socks. They are followed by David Guardado, author of Asturias: Nunca Vencida, who speaks to some of the defining aspects of Asturian identity and language.

Well before the Camino Francés was considered safe to walk, there was the Camino Primitivo, linking Oviedo--the center of a small, Christian enclave that was holding out in the northwest corner of the Iberian peninsula--with Santiago de Compostela and the recently rediscovered relics of St. James. In this four-part series, we will virtually walk the Primitivo together, bringing together experienced pilgrims and relevant experts in each episode. Part 1 focuses on the first three stages, between Oviedo and Tineo, covering roughly 70 kilometers. Nadine Karel (www.nadinewalks.com), a two-time Primitivo veteran, offers insights on the route, while Allison Bixby-Bemus discusses her experience taking over as co-owner of the legendary Albergue de Peregrinos in Bodenaya. Finally, Anthony Hemingway discusses one of the most noteworthy features of the region--the pre-Romanesque churches distinctive of Asturian Architecture, including several that are clustered in Oviedo.

If you have walked the Camino, you've encountered donkeys. Sometimes they're looming on a field's far end, watching the world go by, a presence immediately recognizable even from a hundred meters. Sometimes, they're pressed against the barbed wire fence, curious and eager for engagement. And very, very occasionally, you'll see a pilgrim walking with a donkey. This episode features an interview with one such pilgrim, Barbara from Poitiers, France, on her journeys with Dalie on the Camino del Norte and other routes. She is followed by Mark Meyers, the Executive Director of Peaceful Valley Donkey Rescue (www.donkeyrescue.org), who explains the donkey's many virtues, the valuable roles donkeys can still play in 2024, and the reasons they are in need of rescue today.

Over the last few years, there has been an exciting development, wherein the Santiago archdiocese has collaborated with other routes outside of Spain to offer official "alternative" starting points for the Camino de Santiago, allowing pilgrims to begin their journey closer to home, earn some kilometers towards the 100km requirement, and then pick up the trail in Spain. This episode focuses on three such routes. In the United States, El Camino de San Antonio Missions (caminosanantonio.org) in Texas offers a 30km, established pilgrimage route linking the four historic mission churches and San Antonio's cathedral, while the still-in-progress Camino de la Unidad in Florida currently hosts an annual Baby Steps Camino (www.babystepscamino.com) between Jacksonville Beach and Saint Augustine. Meanwhile, in England, Saint James' Way (britishpilgrimage.org/portfolio/st-james-way/) links Reading and Southampton, and offers a natural starting point for the Camino Inglés, from Coruña onward.

If you want to know what's happening on the Camino, ask a group or forum moderator. Those tireless, kind-hearted shepherds of Camino discourse perform one of the most thankless tasks of the online world, helping to ensure that new pilgrims can hit the Camino with confidence, and that experienced pilgrims can have a place to connect with a shared community. This episode features two prolific moderators--Laurie/peregrina2000 on Ivar's Camino Forum and Paul Garland on the Camino de Santiago All Routes Facebook group--to look back on major developments and overblown issues on the Camino in 2023. We discuss the general state of pilgrimage discourse, the pushback of some albergues against luggage shipment, the perceived overcrowding crisis in May, the local unhappiness with tourist crowds in Santiago de Compostela, and the recent controversy surrounding the Cruz de Ferro, along with a bunch of other stuff. Along the way, we confirm some concerns, brush away others, and even arrive at some positive developments worth celebrating.

Beyond Jerusalem, Rome, and Santiago de Compostela, Canterbury stands out as perhaps the most significant pilgrimage destination for Christians in the Middle Ages. While Chaucer famously commemorated the route from London in the Canterbury Tales, pilgrims of course traveled from their homes, following a network of different trails. For centuries, one of those was lost to history, until the Old Way, paralleling the coast from Southampton eastward, was rediscovered on a medieval map. Since then, the pilgrimage has been redeveloped, and this episode explores the route with two recent pilgrims. Gail Simmons (travelscribe.org) walked the Old Way during the pandemic, and then documented her experience in vivid detail in her book, Between the Chalk and the Sea. Carol Donaldson (caroldonaldsonwriter.co.uk) took to the trail in post-COVID England, writing about her section walk in the Guardian.

79 rounds of chemotherapy. 4 radical surgeries. 60% of her liver, ten inches of her colon, 2 inches of her stomach, her right lung, and part of her throat--all gone. And yet, however one measures it, Edie Littlefield Sundby (www.themissionwalker.com), author of The Mission Walker, is a living miracle. After being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 2007 and told that she had months to live, Edie took to walking first as a means of survival and later as an act of joy and thanksgiving. In time, this led her to the California Mission Trail, for a journey that spanned 1600 miles across the full length of the old Spanish missions in both Alta and Baja California. In this episode, Edie describes her journey of healing, her love of walking, and her latest pilgrimage following the Old Spanish Trail through the southern US.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this tenth and final episode in the series, we finally make it to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port, thanks to the combined wisdom of four experienced pilgrims. Robert Deming of Fredericksburg, Texas leads us onward from Aire-sur-l'Adour to Navarrenx, and then three high schoolers from Portland, Oregon pick up the baton from there. After completing the journey to Saint-Jean and discussing the suitability of different endpoints for the Via Podiensis, we then cap the series with a "draft" of favorite places along the way. Spoiler alert: the Lot and Célé Valleys do very, very well.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this ninth episode in the series, the Pyrenees are finally breaking the horizon as we continue southward from Condom to Aire-sur-l'Adour. Kevin Greenstreet shares tales from the road, including a visit to the tiniest fortified village in Gers, a lunch he couldn't pass up in Nogaro, and one of the most memorable gites of the whole walk. And since Roman ruins feature prominently in this section--most notably in Éauze and Séviac--Dr. Simon Esmonde Cleary, Emeritus Professor of Roman Archaeology at the University of Birmingham, joins to offer insights into Roman Gaul and lessons learned from an excavation at Éauze.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this eighth episode in the series, we carry on southward from Moissac with pilgrims Dennis and Laurie Brooke of Tacoma, Washington (www.worldrovers.com), following the canal towards Auvillar, slaloming through the hills to Lectoure, greeting the cats in La Romieu, and finally posing for photos at the entrance to Condom. Many pilgrims in this stretch will find their culinary journeys leading them towards duck, which features prominently on the menus in the region. Dr. Jean Lavigne, Professor of Environmental Studies at the College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University, then shares insights into its prominent role in French cuisine, and the ongoing controversies surrounding foie gras production.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this seventh episode in the series, we finally leave Cahors in the rearview mirror and cross the halfway point en route from Le Puy to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. France Fehr, author of On Foot in France: An Unforgettable Adventure on the Camino de Santiago, shares stories from the walk between Cahors and Moissac, a region that also carries scars from the Albigensian Crusade in the early 13th century. Dr. Mark Gregory Pegg, author of A Most Holy War: The Albigensian Crusade and the Battle for Christendom, then explains why everything you think you know about the Cathars is wrong.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this sixth episode in the series, we make our third and final walk between Figeac and Cahors, this time following the GR651 through the Célé Valley. The route is much beloved by walkers and pilgrims, featuring dramatic cliffs, troglodyte villages, medieval fortifications, and prehistoric cave paintings. Kerri Daniels of Sacramento, California, USA offers insights from her two past forays on the route, and then Maureen Cashman (www.maureencashman.com), author of Charlie & Me in Val-Paradis: How My Dog Learned to Bark in French, shares stories from her three years spent living in Espagnac-Sainte-Eulalie.

Dr. Nancy Louise Frey was looking for a topic for her doctoral research when she stumbled into Santiago de Compostela around Saint James Day and discovered a very different sort of pilgrimage than she had previously considered. This set in motion a complicated and extensive process of field work, and ultimately culminated in one of the essential Camino books, Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain. Since then, Nancy has remained deeply connected to the Camino, living in Galicia, studying the impact of digital technologies on pilgrimage (www.walkingtopresence.com), and leading group pilgrimages (www.onfootinspain.com/tours). This episode explores each of those subjects: Nancy's reflections on the Camino in the 1990s, the risks of smartphones and other technologies on the pilgrimage experience and practical advice for managing that, and the ways that a group pilgrimage can be enriching and rewarding.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this fifth episode in the series, we find ourselves back in Figeac, for the second of three route options leading pilgrims onward to Cahors, the Rocamadour route. And as the name implies, this variant features one of France's most famous and spectacular pilgrimage shrines, clinging to a cliff overlooking the Alzou Gorge. Prolific pilgrims Sean Morton and Sonya Richmond of Ontario, Canada (comewalkwithus.online) share their experiences from the route, and are then followed by Dr. Deana Weibel (deanaweibel.space), author of A Sacred Vertigo: Pilgrimage and Tourism in Rocamadour, France, who discusses the sacred site.

Let's re-walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this fourth episode in the series, we arrive at the major decision that pilgrims face on the Via Podiensis: which route to follow from Figeac to Cahors? Bronwen Perry talks us through the default approach for many pilgrims, sticking with the GR65 all the way, strolling through the Causse de Limogne. And while Cahors today is increasingly well known for its wine, the picture was very different 150 years ago, when the future of wine was cast in doubt by a small bug from the United States, phylloxera. Dr. George Gale, author of Dying on the Vine: How Phylloxera Transformed Wine, tells the tale of how this threat was overcome through international collaboration, but also why we can never grow complacent.

Imagine that it is your dream to run an albergue, and then that opportunity comes knocking in the middle of COVID. Do you make the leap? And then imagine that you dive in headfirst, alive with all of the dreams and possibilities of what will be. Even as the pandemic ebbs, though, your reopening is first delayed by family obligations, and then thwarted entirely by necessary repair work. Two years in, your albergue has been closed more than it has been open. This is the story of Giulia Sottanis, the hospitalera at Albergue Izarra in Caborredondo, Spain on the Camino del Norte. This is also the story of the central importance of donativo-based albergues, though, and the philosophy and people behind them.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In the third part of this series, we journey today from the Lot River to the Célé River, and from the village of Estaing to the town of Figeac. Bennett Voyles, the author of Onward, Backward! -or- A Ramble to Santiago, joins to help guide us through this section, while offering stories from his family's walk and his own research on the route. He is followed by two historians who share their expertise on two important stops in this section. First, Dr. Patrick Geary, author of Furta Sacra, discusses the theft of relics in the Middle Ages, and the specific legend of Saint Foy's translation to Conques, one of the major highlights on the Via Podiensis. By contrast, the town of Decazeville, which sits further on in this section, is viewed by many walkers as a place worth bypassing. Dr. Donald Reid, author of The Miners of Decazeville, describes the history of this influential town, and the reasons that pilgrims should give it a closer look.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this second episode in the series, Melinda Lusmore of I Love Walking in France (www.ilovewalkinginfrance.com) joins to discuss 80 fabulous kilometers of the chemin, linking Aumont-Aubrac and Estaing. While the scenery is stunning, and the villages are charming, the real stars of this section are the Aubrac cattle that grace the fields along the way. In service to that, Michelle Crawford of Bedias Creek Farms (www.bediascreekfarms.com), a rancher who specializes in the Aubrac breed, shares insights from her close work with these bovine beauties.

The Camino that we see and experience today didn't just happen. It reemerged in the second half of the 20th century gradually and then suddenly, through the concerted efforts of devoted visionaries and caretakers like O Cebreiro's Elías Valiña Sampedro. We pilgrims from the English-speaking world are only privy to glimpses of that history, but Laurie Dennett's new book, Waybread: Memories of the Camino for the Onward Journey, is invaluable for filling in some of the gaps. She was there in O Cebreiro with Don Elías. She was there in Rabanal del Camino as the Confraternity turned a ruin into a pilgrim refuge. Time and time again, Laurie was there to witness key moments and people in the Camino's resurgence, and she pulls back the curtain on those events in this episode.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this first episode in a new series, Chloe Rose Stuart-Ulin of www.solocamino.com joins to discuss getting started on the pilgrimage from Le Puy-en-Velay, walking through the first four stages to Aumont-Aubrac. After that, Louise Marshall, an art historian from the University of Sydney, shares insights into Saint Roch, a key figure on the French branches of the Camino who is often confused with James.

Have you ever walked around a cathedral, slack-jawed and amazed, trying to take it all in but realizing you were only scratching the surface? Maybe that happened in Santiago de Compostela. The good news is that Anne Born can tell you what you're missing. Her book, If You Stand Here: A Pilgrim's Tour of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, is packed full of stories that reveal the secrets of the cathedral that are hiding in plain sight, and she shares some of those stories in this episode. Along with that, Dave reads the introduction of his new book, Pilgrimage: A Medieval Cure for Modern Ills, to illustrate that professional audiobook narrators are worth their weight in gold.

The Camino de Santiago has often been characterized as a sort of palimpsest--a foundation upon which layers of stories have been created and shared over the years. As new dominant narratives take hold, older ones fade to the margins, less obvious but still visible to those who can learn to see the signs. In The Way of the Wild Goose: Three Pilgrimages Following Geese, Stars, and Hunches on the Camino de Santiago, Beebe Bahrami shares her own initiatory journey--a pursuit of insights into the historically significant role played by the goose, in a story that is equal parts mystery and memoir. In this episode, Beebe reflects upon those three pilgrimages, the impact of these journeys upon her own beliefs, and the persistent value of ancient wisdom.

In 2007, Sedat Çakır set out to walk the Camino de Santiago. Before he departed, he decided to seek out a pilgrim blessing from the local bishop in Amsterdam. There's nothing particularly unusual about that story... aside from the fact that Sedat is a Sufi and the Camino, of course, has a very complicated history with Islam! While Sedat set out originally just to make a satisfying long-distance walk, his purpose evolved as he learned more, and it soon grew into a journey oriented towards interfaith dialogue. And in the aftermath of that pilgrimage, another new goal opened up before him, reforging a route from Europe to Mecca. Working with his partner, Iris Bezuijen, Sedat (sedatcakir.com) has now launched two long-distance routes, the Sultan's Trail (sultanstrail.net/en/) and the Sufi Trail (sufitrail.com), which are the first two steps in that larger objective. This episode traces his journey from Amsterdam to Santiago and onward towards Mecca.

So you think the Camino is crowded? You should check out pilgrimage in India. It holds the record for the largest single-day attendance at a pilgrimage event--an estimated 50 million people at the Kumbh Mela in 2019. This episode explores pilgrimage in India through a closer examination of two sacred cities: Banaras and Pandharpur. Dr. Diana Eck, author of Banaras: City of Light and India: A Sacred Geography, shares insights on the former, while Deepak Phadnis, author of Pandharpur Wari: A Walking Pilgrimage to Pandharpur, describes his walk to the latter. This introduction to Indian pilgrimage also offers a useful lens through which to look back upon the Camino and see some fascinating points of comparison.

Beverly Chalman of Tennessee set out to walk the Camino Francés with her daughter in June 2019. Traveling from Tennessee to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port was an exhausting process, with overnight stops in New York City and London, and that first day of walking was similarly taxing. It was on the second day, though, when her pilgrimage veered in a life-changing direction. This is her story.

163 years ago, the Virgin Mary is said to have made a series of appearances before a young Bernadette Soubirous in a grotto in the French Pyrenean town of Lourdes. Some 200 million pilgrims and 70 "official" miracles later, Lourdes stands as one of the world's major Catholic pilgrimage sites, known in particular for that association with miraculous healing. This episode features stories from two different pilgrims to Lourdes. Marlene Watkins, the foundress of Our Lady of Lourdes Hospitality North American Volunteers (lourdesvolunteers.org), has led many groups of volunteers and ill pilgrims to the town. Meanwhile, Lauren Selden visited Lourdes as a walking pilgrim, as part of a larger walk between Le Puy-en-Velay and Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port.

A major part of the power and magic of pilgrimage is how it immerses us in the natural world. While the physical shrines are human built, they're often situated in places of natural splendor. In that way, pilgrimage and the environment are inextricably connected. This episode is a deep dive into that relationship from a few different perspectives. Up first, you'll hear from Yeb Saño, a leading environmental activist in Southeast Asia who has now led multiple climate pilgrimages in the Philippines and Europe. Then, two professors--Kiran Shinde and Daniel Olson--join me to discuss their research on the relationship between religious tourism and the environment. Finally, Reverend Canon Caroline Pinchbeck, from the York Diocese in England shares her perspective from her work with the European Green Pilgrimage Network, a faith-based network of pilgrimage sites.

Right now, as we all long to be able to travel to Santiago de Compostela once more, many of us are thinking about our absence from that sacred place. What about those who remain present in Santiago, though--those who have organized their lives to a considerable degree around attending to pilgrims as they arrive in the city. What have their lives been like during the pandemic and what are they seeing in Santiago right now, deep in the winter (recorded late January, 2021), when reasons for optimism and pessimism seem to clash on a daily basis? This episode focuses on the people behind two well known houses in Santiago. Up first are Nate and Faith Walter, who run Pilgrim House (pilgrimhousesantiago.com) on Rua Nova. They're followed by Sybille Yates, who created Egeria House and authored Pilgrim Tips & Packing List Camino de Santiago (amazon.com/S-Yates/e/B00A9YUYQ2), and has transitioned during the pandemic into running her own little free pantry (littlefreepantry.org).

Let's walk the Camino Inglés together! As in the series on the Camino Francés, this episode features conversations among three experienced pilgrims as they sling stories from the road, share personal highlights, and gnash teeth about route changes. Dave is joined this time by Johnnie Walker, author of the Confraternity of Saint James's guide to the Camino Inglés and many others, and Sean Hampton, his long-time colleague. Spanning just 120km from Ferrol to Santiago de Compostela, the Camino Inglés is a great choice if you have limited time but still want to walk a "complete" pilgrimage. Let us advise you on what to watch for along the way!

After learning about pilgrimage's potential as a peace-building initiative in Episode 49, we now turn to its capacity to promote reconciliatory efforts within a colonial context. Academic and religious leaders are doing this work right now, and this episode focuses on initiatives coordinated by Dr. Matthew Anderson in Canada (www.somethinggrand.ca), and by Jenny Boyack and John Hornblow in New Zealand (www.pilgrimagenz.nz). Combined, they highlight how pilgrimage can provide a space to build a deeper, shared understanding between people and also a closer relationship with the land.

Pilgrimage has the power to change the world and we're only just beginning to understand its potential. One aspect of this is pilgrimage as a peace-building initiative: an act that can help span cultural and religious divides and promote reconciliation. Dr. Ian McIntosh is part of a growing body of researchers studying this phenomenon, and he documents his experiences and insights in his book, Pilgrimage: Walking to Peace, Walking for Change. In this episode, Ian takes us around the world on a quick survey of some of the places where this potential is on display.

Let's re-walk the Camino together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. After having completed our full re-walk of the Camino Francés, we'll follow our many pilgrim peers onward to the coast, walking towards Finisterre and Muxía. I'm joined in this journey by two pilgrims, Terri Stefanson and Irene Lipshin. Terri is the chapter co-coordinator for the Southern Oregon chapter of APOC, while Irene writes about her pilgrimages at walkingthroughtheages.com.

In his upcoming pilgrim memoir, Into the Thin: A Pilgrimage Walk Across Northern Spain, author Stephen Drew (www.authorstephendrew.com) narrates how he was called to the Camino Francés in the wake of a year that he characterizes as an "emotional crucifixion." In this extended discussion of his journey, Stephen speaks to companionship on the Camino, his processing of guilt, shame, and more personal tragedies than anyone should have to endure, and the insights he ultimately arrived at in Finisterre. Ultimately, it's the story of a walk through the thin places on the Camino de Santiago, a walk towards love and away from guilt and shame.

From a guidebook perspective, it's a great time to be a pilgrim. On the Camino Francés, in particular, there is a growing assortment of outstanding and complementary guidebooks, along with a wealth of other support materials to help inform one's pilgrimage. Over the last year, two new contenders have joined the array of English-language offerings: the Moon Camino de Santiago guide, written by Beebe Bahrami, and the completely overhauled Cicerone Camino de Santiago - Camino Francés book, by Sandy Brown. This episode centers on a conversation with Sandy and Beebe, about guidebooks generally, the pivotal decisions that guidebook authors have to make, and the specific goals they built their Camino Francés guides around.

In 17th-century Spain, Santiago faced his greatest threat to date. While the Reconquista was well in the past, his new rival was a Carmelite nun, born Teresa Sánchez de Cepeda y Ahumada, but known to history as Teresa of Avila. Soon after Teresa died, and well before she was canonized, a movement grew to elevate her to serve as co-patron saint of Spain, alongside James. Santiago's advocates, however, were stridently opposed. This episode explores that struggle with the professor who wrote the book on it, Dr. Erin Rowe, author of State and Nation: Santiago, Teresa of Avila, and Plural Identities in Early Modern Spain.

If you've been called to the Camino, odds are that you've also been called to write about your pilgrimage. Whether your goal is to write for yourself, cementing lessons learned; to write for your friends and family, laying bare a difficult-to-explain experience; or to pursue publication, the underlying impulse is likely the same--to endeavor to translate the profound into words. But it can be difficult to get started! Fortunately, in this episode, two great Camino authors, Beth Jusino (bethjusino.com, caminotimestwo.com) and Steve Watkins (stevewatkins.org), share their expertise and offer shrewd advice on how to make it happen.

Ann Sieben, aka the Winter Pilgrim, is a mendicant pilgrim and a founder of the Society of Servant Pilgrims. Over the last 13 years she has walked 43,000 miles through 55 different countries. In this episode, we discuss her pilgrimage origins, the development of her identity as a 'mendicant' pilgrim, and her crossing of the Darién Gap. Special attention is paid to her notable expertise in North American pilgrimages, with particular emphasis on the St. Rose Philippine pilgrimage in Missouri, USA.

Seemingly every aspect of life has been upended by the Coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic and that includes pilgrimage. This episode examines the interrupted journeys of four pilgrims, along with a look at the impact of the Camino Forum on the decision-making process of those pilgrims and many others. While that might sound like a bleak episode on the surface, the pilgrims involved meet their setbacks with resilience and humor, and their stories are each striking in their own way.

In 2013, Guy Stagg departed his London home on New Year's Day and then began a pilgrimage from Canterbury, not only to Rome, but then onward to Jerusalem. In his account of that pilgrimage, The Crossway, Guy weaves a fascinating, dramatic, and profound narrative, marked by evenings spent in monasteries and convents, reflections on faith and healing, and jarring encounters with political instability. In this episode, Guy further explores some of the central themes of his journey, including loneliness, suffering, and belief.

We are living in a boom time for Camino-related books, with new publications hitting the virtual shelves seemingly every week. And yet, these are overwhelming memoir or historical-cultural in approach; to this point, relatively few works have explored the pilgrimage through the lens of fiction or poetry. Gradually, though, we are starting to see authors dip into those realms, and this episode features two such writers. Up first is Ashlee Cowles, the American author of the YA-novel Beneath Wandering Stars, which centers on two young pilgrims on the Camino. She is followed by David McLoghlin, an Irish poet whose collection of poems on life in 1993 Santiago de Compostela, Santiago Sketches, is featured throughout the episode.

Let's re-walk the Camino Francés together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. At long last, we reach Santiago de Compostela in this episode, after navigating the six final stages of the Francés. Sherry Kirkham of Ontario, Canada joins me for the first half, walking from O Cebreiro to Portomarín, and we talk about everything from squash soup to siesta failures to giant student groups. She's followed by Graham English of Alberta, Canada, for the home stretch, and Graham helps me to get in a suitably nostalgic frame of mind. An arrival three years in the making and the completion of this five-part series!

There are two UNESCO World Heritage pilgrimage routes--Spain's Camino de Santiago, of course, and Japan's Kumano Kodo. The latter's long and storied history rival's the former's, but it has only really appeared on the radars of Western pilgrims over the last decade or so. Like the Camino, the Kumano Kodo is really a series of connected routes, oriented in this case towards several prominent shrines, most notably Kumano Hongu Taisha. This episode offers an introduction to the Kumano Kodo, thanks to the insights of Mike Rhodes, the Destination Manager & Guide for the Tanabe City Kumano Tourism Bureau, and Greg Ng, a recent pilgrim.

Phil Cousineau's The Art of Pilgrimage is an international bestseller in at least ten languages and for more than two decades it has served as an introduction and handbook for many pilgrims on how to get the most out of their journey. In this episode, Phil reflects on the book's impact and offers deep insights into the phenomenon of pilgrimage, including some practical advice on how to be more perceptive, engaged, and aware travelers.

Galicia, the northwest corner of Spain and the home of Santiago de Compostela, is beloved by most pilgrims. It is a place ensconced in legend, with stories ranging from its Celtic origins to the persistence of witches and the Santa Compaña. This episode explores the region's history and stories. Dr. Sharif Gemie, author of Galicia: A Concise History, provides a survey of Galicia from its disputed origins to its contemporary cultural resurgence. Dr. Kristin Valentine follows with a description of two local pilgrimages, or romerías, to Muxía and Teixido. Combined, they are likely to challenge some of your assumptions about the region and also reveal some interesting new details.

Edwin Mullins has spent the better part of his life associated with the Camino de Santiago, with his first book on the subject--The Pilgrimage to Santiago--appearing in 1974. In his more recent publication, The Four Roads to Heaven: France and the Santiago Pilgrimage, Mullins lays out the history and highlights of the four major Chemins de Saint-Jacques. This episode features a conversation with Mullins about his experiences with the Camino, spanning more than five decades, focusing in particular on those French routes. Given his particular love of Vézelay, the episode then explores that chemin in greater detail with John Newman, a pilgrim from New Zealand, who recently walked it in its entirety.

While walking the Camino de Santiago is demanding in and of itself, the completion of pilgrimage poses a special challenge. The mixed emotions a pilgrim often feels when arriving in Santiago are often a precursor to the prolonged slump that can occur at home. This episode focuses on the process of return, and the steps a pilgrim can take to make their pilgrimage a genuinely transformative experience--should they so desire it! Alexander John Shaia, author of Returning from Camino, offers practical advice alongside of his own story, to help guide pilgrims through each part of the process. He is followed by Ginny Bartolone, whose own story of facing anxiety and depression on pilgrimage lends further insight into the healing journey.

Most people only experience the Camino as pilgrims. However, there are many ways to engage with the pilgrim road, and a number of these include rich volunteer opportunities. This episode focuses on three different possibilities. The Ditch Pigs are an annual clean-up crew, organized by Rebekah Scott, and two members of this year's group--Amelia and Jim--bring us into the middle of the action. The most common form of giving back for pilgrims is to serve as hospitaleros; Julie-Ann Milne trains hospitaleros in Sydney, Australia, and she discusses what the work entails and why it matters. Finally, it's also possible to serve in the Pilgrim Office in Santiago; Tom A has been spending weeks there each summer for a number of years, and he takes us behind the curtain. It's a mix of personal stories and practical advice, in the hope of inspiring more of us to contribute, however we can.

Soldiers are hardly a new phenomenon on the Camino de Santiago; indeed, the pilgrimage originated hand in glove with the military initiative to reconquer the Iberian peninsula from the Moors. Today, though, a new movement is taking place to bring more veterans to pilgrimage, as a potential rite of passage to mark their re-entry into civilian life. Brad Genereux has been a key catalyst in this work, taking his own experience--which he wrote about in A Soldier to Santiago--and extending it outward to others through his organization, Veterans on the Camino. Dan Huvane, a US marine, was part of a 2018 cohort that Brad led. The potential of this is also the stuff of research, with Dr. Heather Warfield at the forefront of that work. This episode features Brad, Dan, and Heather, talking about their experiences and the impact of pilgrimage on veterans.

The Camino de Santiago has a powerful gravitational pull. It draws many back for multiple pilgrimages; in some cases, it reorganizes individuals' lives. That is certainly the case for the two people featured in this episode. John Brierley first walked the Camino three decades ago. In that first pilgrimage, he quickly realized he would become a guidebook writer, and indeed, he has become the most read English-language author in that realm (see caminoguides.com for more). Rebekah Scott, meanwhile, moved to Moratinos, Spain--a small town in the meseta on the Camino Francés--many years ago. She is deeply involved in many pilgrimage-related initiatives, many of them bundled beneath her Peaceable Projects organization (see peaceableprojects.org). Both share stories from their lives on the Camino, along with previews of their upcoming work.

Pardon the bait and switch, but this is not a new episode of the Camino Podcast. (It'll be back, I swear!) Instead, I'd like to share the first episode of my new podcast series, Sea to Shining Sea, focused on the American Discovery Trail--the first coast-to-coast, non-motorized trail across the USA. In this episode, I interview one of the route's founders, Eric Seaborg, and then the first continuous through-hikers of the route, Ken and Marcia Powers (aka "Gottawalk"). Future episodes will be posted to a different Soundcloud/iTunes account, but I wanted to make sure as many people as possible saw this first episode!

While walking pilgrims remain the dominant demographic on the Camino, bike pilgrims constitute an increasingly significant part of the community. Despite--or perhaps because of that--a great deal of tension exists between the two groups, and dialogue is often limited to a dinging bike bell and a "buen camino." This episode digs into the bike pilgrim experience, focusing both on practical considerations that anyone contemplating this approach should factor into their planning, as well as broader reflections on the walker-biker dynamic. David Landis, author of the Camino Guidebook and also CaminoCyclist.com, and Doug Werme, a prolific bike pilgrim and Camino Forum voice, share tips and stories from the road.

Along with hosting the Camino Podcast, Dave Whitson is also the co-author of The Northern Caminos guidebook with Laura Perazzoli. In this episode, Dave and Laura reflect on their summer spent re-walking the Caminos del Norte, Primitivo, and Inglés, and also their first experiences on the Ruta do Mar, Camino Salvador, Camino Vasco, and Ruta Vadiniense. Along the way, they share stories detailing a dog attack, an encounter with the True Cross, and the best albergue ever.

The Generalissimo Francisco Franco ruled Spain for the better part of four decades and had a profound impact on the country over that time. He also had a tremendous impact on the Camino de Santiago. Indeed, his time in power coincides with the acceleration of the Camino's rebirth, which kicked off in earnest in 1879 and culminated in the Jubilee year of 1993. Dr. Stanley Payne is one of Franco's biographers and in this episode he shares his expertise on Franco's rise to power and relationship with the Church, with some specific consideration of Franco's impact on several places relevant to the Camino: El Ferrol, Guernica, and the region of Galicia. He's followed by Dr. Sasha Pack, who focuses more specifically on Franco's role in the reemergence of the Camino de Santiago, and his very tangible impact on the pilgrimage that we see--and walk--today.

Johnnie Walker is one of the most prominent names associated with the Camino de Santiago these days. Ever since moving to Santiago de Compostela, Johnnie has taken an active role in re-shaping the English-speaking pilgrim's experience in the city, and he has recently emerged as a prolific guidebook author as well. In this episode, Johnnie shares how he got started as a pilgrim, picked up his nom de plume, and his affection for the Camino Inglés. He's followed by our first return guest, Brian Bouldrey, whose new anthology, Inspired Journeys: Travel Writers in Search of the Muse, explores the concept of secular pilgrimage.

While your pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago might "officially" begin in St Jean Pied-de-Port, or Pamplona, or Sarria (or any number of other possibilities!), the reality is that it actually begins at home. The physical demands of pilgrimage are best met by a careful and extended training process in the months preceding your departure. But how best to do that? Sheri Goodwin, an experienced "trek trainer" (www.desktotrek.com) shares some insights and strategies for getting yourself ready for the road. This episode also features an interview with Gayle Thomas, who walked the Camino Francés in December-January. What is the Camino like in the winter? (Spoiler alert: Santa makes an appearance.)

Let's re-walk the Camino Francés together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. Today's episode focuses on the glorious return to the mountains. After a week or so spent in the flatter meseta, this section of the Camino Francés, connecting León and O Cebreiro, involves two significant ascents with a stroll through the Bierzo valley in between. Rod Hoekstra of Seattle shares some stories on the León-Foncebadón stages, including a notable visit to a private museum in Villar de Mazarife. Bob Scheidt of Hoodstown, PA picks up the narrative from there, bringing his extensive experience as a walker and adventurer to bear on the walk onward to O Cebreiro.

For medieval pilgrims, arrival in Santiago meant the midpoint of their journey, not the end. Today's pilgrims typically wrap up their walk in Santiago or on the coast and then return home by train or plane. While that change is certainly more convenient, is something lost in the bargain? Jen Hofmann completed her return trip this summer, walking east from Finisterre to St Jean Pied-de-Port, in pursuit of completion. This episode also features an interview with Dr. Michael Potter from the University of Kentucky--an entomologist with great expertise in the realm of bed bugs. He corrects some common misunderstandings about bed bug prevention techniques and offers some strategies that all pilgrims can employ to keep themselves bite-free.

David Gitlitz and Linda Davidson are the co-authors of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook, a work that developed out of their research and student trips over the course of three decades. Having first walked to Santiago in 1974, while Spain was still under Franco's rule, David and Linda have witnessed some dramatic changes on the Camino. They were present when the first yellow arrows were painted between Roncesvalles and Pamplona and they fondly recall never encountering pavement between Burgos and León. Their stories offer a rare look into the Camino before its modern resurgence.

Let's re-walk the Camino Francés together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. This episode focuses on the meseta, probably the least-loved section of the Camino Francés. Many pilgrims are advised to skip this stretch if strapped for time, but what are they missing? Quite a lot, actually! Miguel Cura of Toronto, Canada gets us started in Burgos, telling tales from his walk between there and Carrión de los Condes. Then, Ross Fields takes over and leads us on to the next major city, León. Do you have opinions or questions on this part of the route? Join the conversation at facebook.com/CaminoPodcast.

Let's re-walk the Camino Francés together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. This episode picks up where Episode 15 left off, in Los Arcos. Deb Roush of Melbourne, Australia shares stories on the next three stages, leading us into Santo Domingo de la Calzada; David Smith of Dublin, Ireland (clearskiescamino.com) picks up the trail from there and leads us on to Burgos. Do you have opinions or questions on this part of the route? Join the conversation at facebook.com/CaminoPodcast.

Walking the Camino: Six Ways to Santiago, released in 2013, is a tremendously influential documentary on the Camino. The film follows seven pilgrims along their journey to Santiago, documenting their experiences while also capturing the beautiful scenery of the way. This episode seeks to get some of the stories behind the film. First, Lydia Smith, the director/producer, describes the process behind getting the film made and her thoughts on its broader impact (caminodocumentary.org). Then, Jack Greenhalgh and Wayne Emde, two of the featured pilgrims in Walking the Camino, discuss what it was liked to be filmed while on pilgrimage, and how it shaped their experience on the road.

While there are, of course, many roads to Rome, the most famous pilgrim road to Rome is the Via Francigena, which originates in Canterbury, England and proceeds in a southeasterly direction through France and Switzerland en route to Italy. It's a diverse route with many highlights, moving past the white cliffs of Dover, and through the vineyards of France, the Swiss Alps, and the rolling hills of Tuscany. One of the major forces in bringing the Via Francigena back to prominence is Paul Chinn, who, along with his wife Babette Gallard, is the co-author of the Lightfoot Guides to the Via Francigena (pilgrimagepublications.com). In this episode, Paul discusses the route, its history, and its current condition. In addition, Kym Wilson (kymwilson.com.au), a pilgrim who walked from Canterbury to Rome in 2013, reflects on her experiences.

One doesn't have to fly across an ocean to walk a sacred track. All across the USA, routes new and old are emerging that replicate the Camino experience in some form or guide believers and trekkers to significant destinations. This episode focuses on one of the most prominent examples of this trend: the California mission walk. This route follows El Camino Real, the historic itinerary connecting California's 21 Spanish missions that were established in the 18th and 19th centuries. Two through-hikers and guidebook authors, Ron Briery (facebook.com/groups/californiamissionwalkers/) and Stephanie Dodaro (walkingelcaminoreal.com), share their thoughts on the route's history, its current condition, and some stories from the road.

The Camino Francés is an 800-km showcase of brilliant church and cathedral architecture, documenting the history of this art form from early pre-Romanesque roots through to more contemporary expressions. The highlights are almost certainly the great Romanesque and Gothic works, though the ultimate target, Santiago de Compostela's cathedral, is most closely associated with its Baroque facade. In this episode, Kathleen Ashley, the author of Being a Pilgrim: Art and Ritual on the Medieval Routes to Santiago, explains the basics of church architecture and describes how pilgrims--past and present--can best approach their visit. In addition, Karl Otto, a pilgrim from Chicago, reflects on his walk on the Camino Francés.

Pilgrimage has long held a close connection with music, but the present is showing signs of recapturing the brilliance of its medieval peak. This episode features three distinct manifestations of that trend. First, Ellen Waterston (www.writingranch.com) discusses the upcoming world premiere of her Camino opera, Vía Láctea, taking place in Bend, Oregon June 10-12. Then, Dane Johansen, an acclaimed cellist, shares his story of walking the Camino Francés with his cello on his back, performing in churches along the way (www.walktofisterra.com). Finally, Frederick Sheppard talks about the Camino Artes initiative (www.caminoartes.org), which organizes an extensive series of concerts along the meseta (and beyond) each summer.

Let's re-walk the Camino Francés together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this episode, conversations center on the first six stages of the Camino Francés. Cathy Diaz reflects on the first part of the pilgrimage, between St Jean Pied de Port and Pamplona/Cizur Menor, and then Rebecca Gallo picks it up from there, carrying on to Los Arcos.

Imagine walking on the Camino with a parent, a child, or a spouse. Many pilgrims are making their adventure all the more intense by mixing family with pilgrimage, and this episode examines that experience. First, Capitan Bradley (author of Man of a Certain Age) and Brianna Hill describe walking the Camino Francés as a father-daughter duo. Then, Bob and Cindi Klee reflect on their time spent walking the same route together as a married couple. Both pilgrim pairs offer some suggestions for those aspiring to make a similar trek.

The Camino Francés cuts through a region rich in history and legend, and those two are interwoven in the two great epic poems set in part along the way: The Song of Roland and the Poem of El Cid. John K. Moore Jr., an Associate Professor of Spanish and Camino expert helps to contextualize these poems--and the Camino--within their historical era, highlighting the way that Roland, El Cid, and even Santiago fit within the Christian reconquista of the Iberian Peninsula.

The Camino inspires a lot of stories. Why? Brian Bouldrey, a senior lecturer in Northwestern University's English Department and the keynote speaker at this year's APOC National Gathering, suggests in this episode that, for modern pilgrims, storytelling offers a new way of "walking" back home. Meanwhile, Mathew Kuefler, a medieval history professor at San Diego State University, shares some stories from O Cebreiro's peak in the Middle Ages, focusing in particular on the Eucharist miracle and claims of the Holy Grail. (Download Dr. Kuefler's article on the subject here: http://tinyurl.com/jcxhltj)

Have you ever dreamed--maybe a fleeting thought, maybe a nagging desire--of uprooting yourself from wherever "home" is and relocating to the Camino? This episode focuses on two pilgrims who made the move. In 2005, Rom Bates and his wife Aideen moved from Ireland to Moissac, France, in order to open a gite d'etape--Gite Ultreia--on the GR-65 (http://www.ultreiamoissac.com/). A year later, Rebekah Scott and her husband Paddy left Pittsburgh, USA and established the "Peaceable Kingdom" in Moratinos, Spain, on the Camino Francés (http://moratinoslife.blogspot.com/). Rebekah has subsequently published her first novel, The Moorish Whore, which focuses on an 11th century Castilian princess who lived in Sahagún, along the Camino. Rom and Rebekah share stories on making the move, getting new homes established abroad, and living on the road to Santiago.

Jack Hitt's Off the Road: A Modern-day Walk Down the Pilgrim's Route into Spain is one of the earliest English-language pilgrimage accounts from the contemporary resurgence of the Camino, focused on Jack's walk in 1991. It also became a source of inspiration for Emilio Estevez's film, The Way, and readers of the book will quickly recognize characters and patches of dialogue in the movie. Jack offers a number of reflections on his experiences on the Camino in 1981, 1991, and 2013, as well as some insights into the nature and meaning of pilgrimage. The episode also features an interview with Jessica Johnson, who has walked the Francés, Norte, Primitivo, Salvador, and Portugués, and is now planning a pilgrimage on the Camino Ignaciano. Our conversation focuses on the issue of safety along the Camino, and particularly for solo women travelers.

If your Camino begins in St Jean Pied-de-Port, or Roncesvalles, or even Pamplona, then it also begins in the Basque Country. Spread across southern France and northern Spain, the Basque Country is the ancestral—and contemporary—homeland of the Basque people, an indigenous European ethnic group with a long and fascinating history. To gain some understanding of what makes the Basques unique, this episode features an interview with Mark Kurlansky (www.markkurlansky.com), author of The Basque History of the World, as well as Joxelu of Beilari, an albergue located in St. Jean Pied de Port (www.beilari.info).

This episode focuses on two central annoyances of the pilgrimage experience: blisters and snoring. While we can continue to dream of a world in which neither exists, reality demands that we pursue strategies to both prevent and treat these maladies. To help us out, John Vonhof, author of Fixing Your Feet (http://www.fixingyourfeet.com/), shares strategies for achieving optimal foot health, while Dr. Soroush Zaghi of Stanford University (http://www.sleepsurgeon.com/) offers insights into snoring.

David Landis and Anna Dintaman are the co-authors of two guidebooks, Village to Village Guides to the Camino de Santiago (hikingthecamino.com) and the Jesus Trail in Israel (jesustrail.com). They share their background as guidebook authors, and also their perspectives as experienced hikers and trailblazers in the Middle East. Beyond the Jesus Trail, they have also worked extensively with the Abraham Path Initiative, a long-distance walking route that spans many countries in the region (abrahampath.org). This episode also features an episode with Gary Yee, who shares his reflections from his pilgrimage on the Camino Francés last summer (gyeephotography.com).

Landon Roussel's recently-published On the Primitive Way (http://www.ontheprimitiveway.com/) tells the story of his relationship with his brother, Cory--a relationship long strained by Cory's struggles with addiction--and their pilgrimage on the Camino Primitivo. In this episode, Landon talks more about his experience on the Primitivo and the ways that pilgrimage offers room for healing and reconciliation. He's followed by Rachel Grimes, who shares some stories from her pilgrimage on the Camino Francés, and some thoughts specifically on common Camino expressions, like "the Camino provides." Finally, Dave offers some thoughts on 2015 pilgrim statistics from Santiago, and the rise of the Americans.

While legends surround Santiago, or St. James the Elder, the historical record has very little to say about him. What do we actually know? Dr. Harold Attridge, a Sterling Professor of Divinity at Yale Divinity School, brings us up to speed on the Apostle James. Then, Merka Martin shares some stories from her recent pilgrimage on the Camino Francés. The episode concludes with some reading suggestions for fictional works set on the Camino de Santiago.

Phil Volker and Annie O'Neil describe their new documentary film, Phil's Camino (http://philscamino.com/), focused on the story behind Phil's pilgrimages in Vashon Island, Washington and on the Camino de Santiago in Spain, all while living with stage 4 cancer. The film is currently in the final production stages and is running an Indiegogo campaign, Finishing Funds for Phil's Camino (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/finishing-funds-for-phil-s-camino#/), to support the effort.

Sandy Brown, the author of the brand new guidebook to Italy's Way of St. Francis (http://tinyurl.com/ptpfvx8) and the Caminoist blog (http://caminoist.org/) describes this emerging pilgrimage and reflects on the guidebook-writing experience. Maria Slade, a high schooler, shares some moving stories from her pilgrimage over the summer on the Via Podiensis in France. And, Zina Bell offers some gear advice!

Today's episode features three guests: Cheryl Grasmoen, the board chair of the American Pilgrims on the Camino, talks about how APOC (http://www.americanpilgrims.org/) supports American pilgrims and the Camino more broadly. Steve Watkins (http://truthalongtheway.com/) offers some stories from his recent pilgrimage on the Camino Francés. And, Christina Collins espouses the virtues of sarongs.

An introduction to the Camino Podcast, featuring an overview of the program's focus on the Camino de Santiago and pilgrimage more broadly. Dave shares three personal stories from the road, focused on pilgrimages in Spain, Italy, and Norway