Tradeoffs

One doctor debates whether to work for the nation's largest insurance company after it purchased the independent practice she worked for in Oregon.

Guest:

Gwen O'Keefe, MD, Assistant Professor of Medicine, Department of Anesthesiology & Perioperative Medicine, OHSU

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As lawmakers around the country take aim at transgender rights, we dig into findings from the largest survey ever of trans Americans.

Guest:

Sandy E. James, JD, PhD, Lead Researcher, 2022 U.S. Transgender Survey

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Girls in the U.S. are in the midst of a growing mental health crisis, and schools are on the front line of finding solutions. But will Black and Latina girls get left behind?

Guests:

Monica Bhatt,PhD, Senior Research Director, University of Chicago Education Lab

Sheretta Butler-Barnes,PhD, Professor, Washington University

Kathleen Ethier, PhD, Director, CDC Division of Adolescent and School Health

Ngozi Harris,LCPC,Working on Womanhood Director of Program and Staff Development, Youth Guidance

Shekinah Jackson, Working on Womanhood Participant

Nora-Lisa Malloy, Working on Womanhood Counselor, Youth Guidance

Heidi Sipe,EdS, Superintendent, Umatilla School District (OR)

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Patients are now mostly protected from surprise bills, but doctors and insurers are still fighting about the prices. 

Guest:

Benjamin Chartock, PhD, Assistant Professor of Economics, Bentley University

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As adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities strive to live more freely and fully than ever before, many of America’s doctors, hospitals and insurers are getting in the way. We get an inside look at one doctor’s quest to improve health care for people with conditions like Down Syndrome, cerebral palsy and autism.

Guests:

Alison Barkoff, JD, Administration for Community Living, HHS

Kevin Carlson

Clarissa Kripke, MD, Clinical Professor of Family and Community Medicine and Director of the Office of Developmental Primary Care; University of California, San Francisco

Marjorie Ongpauco, BSN, RN, Nursing Consultant

Harold Pollack, PhD, Professor of Social Work, Policy and Practice; University of Chicago

Donna Valencia, BSN, RN, MSN, Administrator, Group Home Administrator

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer/Reporter, Tradeoffs

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A bipartisan bill takes aim at a $500 billion health care problem that few people have ever heard of. Will it make care better for some of the country’s sickest, poorest patients?

Guests:

U.S. Senator Bill Cassidy (R-LA)

Saleema Render-Hornsby, Dually eligible patient

Allison Rizer, MBA, Executive Vice President, ATI Advisory

Eric Roberts, PhD, Associate Professor, University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine

Casey Schwarz, JD, Senior Counsel, Medicare Rights Center

Hong Truong, Caregiver of dually eligible patient

Leslie Walker, Senior Reporter, Tradeoffs

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There are a lot of concerns about the dangers artificial intelligence could pose to your health privacy. AI expert Nicholson Price explains why he thinks too much concern over privacy could make health care AI worse.

Guest:

Nicholson Price, JD, PhD, Professor of Law, University of Michigan

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With high health bills drowning patients in debt, some lawmakers want nonprofit hospitals to give away more free care. But experts warn that could wind up being worse for patients. 

Guests:

Ge Bai, PhD, CPA, Professor of Accounting at Carey Business School, Professor of Health Policy at Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University 

Jill Horwitz, PhD, JD, MPP, David Sanders Professor of Law and Medicine and Founding Faculty Director, Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits, UCLA

Donna Lynne, DrPH, Denver Health CEO

Bruce Siegel, MD, MPH, President and CEO of America’s Essential Hospitals

Gary Young, PhD, JD, Director of the Center for Health Policy and Healthcare Research at Northeastern University 

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A handful of states allow terminally ill people to take life-ending medications prescribed by a doctor instead of waiting for death. This week, we talk with journalist Steven Petrow about his sister’s choice to use medical aid in dying.

Guest:

Steven Petrow, Journalist and author

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Companies claim they can catch cancer sooner with new blood tests and full-body MRI scans. What are the risks and benefits?

Guest:

Ishani Ganguli, MD, MPH, Assistant Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School; primary care physician, Brigham and Women's Hospital

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A live conversation between a top federal health official and a health care executive about how they must work together to keep AI from exacerbating racial bias in health care.

Guests:

Micky Tripathi, PhD, MPP, National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

James Ellzy, MD, Chief Health Officer, Oracle Health Government Services

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Key court decisions in 2024 about prescription drug prices, abortion bans, gender affirming care and the Affordable Care Act could change the way health care is delivered in America. 

Guests:

Zach Baron, Co-director of Health Policy and the Law Initiative, O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health at Georgetown University Law Center

Katie Eyer, Professor at Rutgers Law School 

Laurie Sobel, Associate Director of Women's Health Policy at KFF

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Fentanyl killed 75,000 people in 2022. Now it’s making one of the few treatments for opioid addiction harder to use.

Guests:

Eric Ezzi, Certified Recovery Specialist, Penn Medicine

Ashish Thakrar, MD, Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of Pennsylvania

Leslie Suen, MD, Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of California San Francisco

Ryan Levi,Reporter/Producer, Tradeoffs 

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We've got a lot to share with you in 2024!

We're looking into how fentanyl and other synthetic opioids are upending long established treatments for opioid addiction, and what clinicians and policymakers are doing to adapt.

There are a bunch of cases in the courts this year that have the potential to change Americans' access to care, and restrict the power of federal health agencies.

And nearly 25 years after a landmark case, declaring that people with intellectual and developmental disabilities have a right to live outside state-run institutions, we examine how doctors, hospitals and insurers are failing many of them … and one woman's work to forge a better path.

New episodes start 25 January, 2024!

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Last fall, the federal government named its first 10 targets for historic drug price negotiations with big pharma. Those negotiations are expected to heat up this February when federal officials make their opening price offers.

This week, we offer a refresher on how this negotiation process will work and the impact it could have.

Guests:

Anton Avanceña, PhD, Assistant Professor of Health Outcomes, University of Texas 

Darius Lakdawalla, PhD, Professor of Pharmaceutical Economics and Public Policy, University of Southern California 

Lauren Neves, JD, Deputy Vice President, PhRMA

Steve Pearson, MD, MSc, Founder and President, Institute for Clinical and Economic Review (ICER)

Ben Rome, MD, MPH, physician and researcher, Harvard Medical School

Meena Seshamani, MD, PhD, Deputy Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer/Reporter, Tradeoffs

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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More than 130 hospitals have closed in rural America over the last decade. Reporter Sarah Jane Tribble spent a year embedded in one small Kansas town as they dealt with their own hospital closure.

Guest: Sarah Jane Tribble, Senior Correspondent, Kaiser Health News

Read a transcript of this conversation: https://tradeoffs.org/2020/10/08/losing-a-hospital/

Hear more of Sarah Jane's reporting about Fort Scott on the first season of Where It Hurts: whereithurts.show

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From where medical students are choosing to train to how doctors are caring for women in reproductive health crises, the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe has had major ripple effects on the field of medicine. In this conversation from our friends at STAT's First Opinion podcast, host Torie Bosch talks with two abortion providers about what it's like to practice medicine in post-Roe America.

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Economist Amy Finkelstein has studied America’s patchwork of health insurance policies for more than 20 years. In a forthcoming book she concludes it’s time tear the whole system down.

This week, Dan talks with Amy about how she came to that conclusion and what a better system could look like. 

Guest:

Amy Finkelstein, PhD, Professor of Economics, MIT

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There’s growing excitement that artificial intelligence can make health care better by speeding up care, improving diagnoses and easing the burden on a burned out workforce. But there are also concerns that these powerful new tools will perpetuate biases and inequities long baked into our health care system.

In Part 2 of our special series on racial bias in health care AI, we dig into what the Biden administration is doing to keep biased algorithms from getting to the bedside.

Guests:

Emily Sterrett, MD, Associate Professor of Pediatrics, Director of Improvement Science, Duke University School of Medicine Department of Pediatrics

Mark Sendak, MD, MPP, Population Health & Data Science Lead, Duke Institute for Health Innovation

Minerva Tantoco, Chief AI Officer, New York University McSilver Institute for Poverty, Policy and Research

Carmel Shachar, JD, MPH, Executive Director, Petrie-Flom Center for Health Law Policy, Biotechnology, and Bioethics at Harvard Law School

Kathryn Marchesini, JD, Chief Privacy Officer, Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology

Melanie Fontes Rainer, JD, Director, HHS Office for Civil Rights

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

Dan Gorenstein will moderate three one-on-one discussions featuring industry leaders and top officials from ONC, FDA, and HHS’ Office of Civil Rights over two plenary sessions, you can watch them here.

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There’s growing excitement that artificial intelligence can make health care better by speeding up care, improving diagnoses and easing the burden on a burned out workforce. But there are also concerns that these powerful new tools will perpetuate biases and inequities long baked into our health care system.

In the first of two back-to-back episodes on racial bias in health care AI, we explore the challenge of diagnosing bias in AI and what one health system is trying to do about it.

Guests:

Emily Sterrett, MD, Associate Professor of Pediatrics, Director of Improvement Science, Duke University School of Medicine Department of Pediatrics

Mark Sendak, MD, MPP, Population Health & Data Science Lead, Duke Institute for Health Innovation

Ganga Moorthy, MD, Global Health Fellow, Duke Pediatric Infectious Disease Program

Paige Nong, PhD Candidate, University of Michigan School of Public Health

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

Dan Gorenstein will moderate three one-on-one discussions featuring industry leaders and top officials from ONC, FDA, and HHS’ Office of Civil Rights over two plenary sessions, you can watch them here.

Support this type of journalism today, with a gift, which for a limited time will be matched!

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In this special episode we reflect on a few of our favorite stories of 2023 and hear how they’re making a difference for patients and policymakers. 

Guests:

Hannah Neprash, PhD, Assistant Professor, University of Minnesota School of Public Health

Jami Snyder, MA, president and chief executive officer of consulting firm JSN Strategies

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website. And take a look at our full impact report!

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One out of every four Medicare patients in the hospital is the victim of a medical error. Over the past 20 years, a growing number of hospitals have adopted practices that discuss medical mistakes and offer support to the people who must cope with the often tragic consequences. We examine why experts are calling on the Biden Administration to make patient safety a national priority.   

Guests:

Jack Gentry, patient 

Naomi Kirtner and Jeff Goldenberg, patient’s family and Founders of Talia’s Voice

Tom Gallagher, MD, Director, UW Medicine Center for Scholarship in Patient Care Quality and Safety

Stephen Kuracheck, MD, Former Chief of Critical Care and Medical Director of Quality at Children’s Minnesota

Julie Morath, RN, Member of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology’s Working Group on Patient Safety

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Congress banned most surprise medical bills back in 2020, with one major exception: ambulance rides. Most people agree that patients should be shielded from these unexpected charges. But who should pick up the tab instead? As state and federal policymakers grapple with that question, we delve into why finding a fair solution is harder than you’d think.

Guests:

Tara Bannow, Reporter, STAT

Precious Mae Clark, patient

Dia Gainor, Executive Director, National Association of State EMS Officials

Zach Gaumer, Principal, Health Management Associates

James Gelfand, JD President and CEO, ERISA Industry Committee

Bob Herman, Reporter, STAT

Pete Lawrence, Deputy Chief, Oceanside Fire

Butch Oberhoff, President, Texas EMS Alliance

Leslie Walker, Senior Reporter/Producer, Tradeoffs

Matt Zavadsky, At-Large Director, National Association of EMTs

To learn more, read a full transcript on our website and check out our reporting partner STAT's story, too.

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Health care leaders are spending more time and money trying to improve the way doctors and nurses talk with their patients, to build more trust. Are those efforts working? We eavesdrop on some difficult conversations between patients and providers, and meet researchers who are measuring the power of using just the right words. 

This episode first aired in 2019 and remains as relevant as ever.

Guests:

Andrea Anderson, MD, Medical Director,  Unity Health Care

Sumeera Baig, MD, Physician, R-Health

Calvin Chou, MD, Professor, University of California, San Francisco

Lisa Cooper, MD, MPH, Bloomberg Distinguished Professor, Equity in Health and Healthcare, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine

Hannah Herman, DO, Resident, The Wright Center for Graduate Medical Education

Lauren Howe, PhD, Postdoctoral Scholar, Stanford University

Natalie Levinson, patient

Jeff Milstein, MD, Regional Medical Director, Penn Primary Care

Kathy Trow, MSN, APN-C, Nurse Practitioner, Penn Medicine 

Jessika Welcome, mother of patient Natalie Levinson

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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California’s Medicaid program is two years into the nation’s most ambitious effort yet to cover non-traditional health care services like housing and food for some of the state’s sickest and most vulnerable residents. Everyone expected this transformation — known as CalAIM — to take some time to hit its stride. We dig into CalAIM’s early challenges and what’s being done to right the ship.

Guests:

Pooja Bhalla, DNP, RN, CEO, Illumination Foundation

Jacey Cooper, Medicaid Director, California Department of Health Care Services

Kelly Bruno-Nelson, MSW, Executive Director of Medi-Cal/CalAIM, CalOptima Health

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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A wave of new research is showing the promise of psychedelics to help with mental health conditions — like depression and post traumatic stress disorder. The federal government continues to say it’s illegal to use these substances for treatment, but states like Oregon and Colorado are attempting to roll out regulated use. We talk with Mason Marks about the latest research, regulation, and legal gray areas on psychedelics.     

Guests:

Mason Marks, JD MD Project Lead on the Project on Psychedelics Law and Regulation at the Petrie-Flom Center for Health Law Policy, Biotechnology, and Bioethics at Harvard Law School.

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

We're also excited to share that you can now find Tradeoffs on YouTube! 

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Every fall, an avalanche of advertising bombards the phones, televisions and mailboxes of the country’s 65 million Medicare beneficiaries.

Private insurance companies and brokers unleash this flurry of marketing in hopes of persuading as many people as possible to switch plans during Medicare’s open enrollment period.

This week, we explore how too many choices, too little help and an alarming amount of deception combine to lead many of America’s most vulnerable older adults astray.

Guests:

Gretchen Jacobson, PhD, Vice President, Commonwealth Fund

Lauren Lachs, Volunteer, Medicare Rights Center

Leslie Montgomery, Medicare and Medicaid beneficiary

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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In 2021, University of Minnesota health economist Hannah Neprash listened to a Tradeoffs story on ransomware in health care and was inspired to study whether cyberattacks actually harm patients. This week, she shares her striking findings, and we revisit the inside story of a ransomware negotiation that sparked her work.

Guests:

Karen Sprenger, CISSP, GCFE, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Ransomware Negotiator, LMG Security 

Hannah Neprash, PhD, Assistant Professor, University of Minnesota School of Public Health

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Employers are facing a big dilemma: how do they pay for the new highly effective and popular obesity medications without breaking the bank? This week, the questions are forcing companies to re-examine their attitudes on obesity as the understanding of the disease deepens.

Guests:

Sean Scanlon, Connecticut Comptroller

Jeff Levin-Scherz, WTW population health leader

Mike Thompson, President of the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions

Olivia Quagliani, Patient

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Many of America’s poorest and sickest patients are stuck navigating two separate insurance programs — Medicare and Medicaid — to get the care they need.

Guests:

Jose Figueroa, MD, MPH, Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Jean Minkel, PT, ATP, Senior Vice President of Rehab and Mobility Services, Independence Care System

Rochelle Render, advocate and mother of Saleema Render-Hornsby

Saleema Render-Hornsby, dually eligible person

Allison Rizer, Principal, ATI Advisory

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer/Reporter, Tradeoffs

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Girls in the U.S. are in the midst of a growing mental health crisis, and schools are on the front line of finding solutions. But will Black and Latina girls get left behind?

Guests:

Monica Bhatt,PhD, Senior Research Director, University of Chicago Education Lab

Sheretta Butler-Barnes,PhD, Professor, Washington University

Kathleen Ethier, PhD, Director, CDC Division of Adolescent and School Health

Ngozi Harris,LCPC,Working on Womanhood Director of Program and Staff Development, Youth Guidance

Shekinah Jackson, Working on Womanhood Participant

Nora-Lisa Malloy, Working on Womanhood Counselor, Youth Guidance

Heidi Sipe,EdS, Superintendent, Umatilla School District (OR)

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

We're also excited to share that you can now find Tradeoffs on YouTube! 

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This summer, our research reporter Soleil Shah added a new role to his resume: first-year medical resident. Now he spends his days alternating between making the rounds on hospital patients and reading up on the latest health policy research for the Tradeoffs newsletter. 

Guest:

Soleil Shah, MD, MSc, Research Reporter, Tradeoffs; Resident Physician, Brigham and Women's Hospital

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Nearly two decades ago, Dr. Jeff Brenner hypothesized that nurses and social workers could guide the country's most complicated patients toward better health ... and cut expensive hospital admissions along the way. Was he right?

Jeff Brenner, Camden Coalition of Health Care Providers

Amy Finkelstein, Economist, MIT

Kathleen Noonan, Camden Coalition of Health Care Providers

Allison Hamblin, Center for Health Care Strategies

Jensen Skinner, Nurse, Camden Coalition of Health Care Providers

Larry Moore, Patient

Check out the research for yourself and learn more on our website: https://bit.ly/tradeoffsep7

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About half of people on Medicare use hospice care before they die, but as the popular benefit turns 40 this year, it is struggling with waste, access and inequity issues. 

This week, we look at a federal experiment revamping Medicare's hospice policy, and how it could ultimately change the way millions of people die.

Guests:

Vince Mor, PhD, Professor of Health Services, Policy & Practice, Brown University

Bethany Snider, MD, Chief Medical Officer, Hosparus Health

David Stevenson, PhD, Professor of Health Policy, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer, Tradeoffs

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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People leaving jail and prison are at extremely high risk of hospitalization and death. This week, why policymakers from deep blue California to solidly red Utah think bringing Medicaid behind bars could help.

Guests:

Lee Reed

Shira Shavit, MD, Professor of Family and Community Medicine, University of California San Francisco; Executive Director, Transitions Clinic Network

Jacey Cooper, Director, California Medicaid Program

Cindy Beane, MSW, LCSW, Commissioner, West Virginia Bureau of Medical Services

Amy Katzen, JD, MPP, Director of Policy and Strategy, Rhode Island Executive Office of Health and Human Services

Mike Levine, Medicaid Director, MassHealth

Dana Flannery, Former Senior Policy Advisor, Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System

Khalil Cumberbatch, MSW, Director of Strategic Partnerships, Council on Criminal Justice

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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One year of health insurance premiums for a family of four now costs as much as a car. Nine states are trying to lower those costs in an aggressive way - by holding hospitals and insurance companies accountable for high spending. In this episode we look to see if any of those efforts have bent the cost curve.

Guests: 

Leemore Dafny, PhD, Harvard University economist

Michael Bailit, MBA President and Founder Bailit Health

David Seltz, Executive Director Massachusetts Health Policy Commission

Amy Rosenthal, MPH, MPA Executive Director Health Care For All

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Black Americans report higher levels of mistrust in the health care system than white Americans and suffer worse outcomes in everything from maternal mortality to life expectancy. What if improving health literacy and demystifying health information could be the part of the solution?

This week, one doctor’s crusade to help more people understand their own health care and why insurers are starting to buy in.

Guests:

Lisa Fitzpatrick, MD, MPH, MPA, Founder and CEO, Grapevine Health

Keith Maccannon, Director of Marketing, Outreach and Community Relations, AmeriHealth Caritas District of Columbia

Yvonne Smith, Grapevine Client

Karen Dale, RN, MSN, Market President, AmeriHealth Caritas District of Columbia

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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The Inflation Reduction Act gave Medicare historic new power to directly negotiate the prices of some of the costliest prescription drugs. Now the federal agency must grapple with a difficult question: What makes a drug price fair?

This week, we explain how this negotiation process will work and the impact it could have.

Guests:

Anton Avanceña, PhD, Assistant Professor of Health Outcomes, University of Texas 

Darius Lakdawalla, PhD, Professor of Pharmaceutical Economics and Public Policy, University of Southern California 

Lauren Neves, JD, Deputy Vice President, PhRMA

Steve Pearson, MD, MSc, Founder and President, Institute for Clinical and Economic Review (ICER)

Ben Rome, MD, MPH, physician and researcher, Harvard Medical School

Meena Seshamani, MD, PhD, Deputy Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer/Reporter, Tradeoffs

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Ashish Jha shifted from the role of academic theorizing about health policy into a calm, reassuring voice leading the White House’s COVID response. Now, he’s back in the world of studies and scholarship leading Brown University's School of Public Health. This week, what he learned from his time in Washington.

Guest:

Ashish Jha, Dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health and former White House COVID-19 Response Coordinator

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It’s been one year since 988, the country’s new mental health crisis line, went live with hopes of transforming crisis services in America. So far, call volumes are up, wait times are down, and reviews are mixed.

This week, we check in on what’s working, what’s not, and what’s next for 988.

Content warning: This episode includes mentions of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, please call, text or chat with the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988, or contact the Crisis Text Line by texting TALK to 741741.

Guests:

Naomi

Monica Johnson, Director of the 988 & Behavioral Health Crisis Coordinating Office, SAMHSA

Shawn Kinney, 988 Crisis Counselor, First Choice Services

Deborah Turner, Director of Crisis and Referral Services, Goodwill of the Finger Lakes

Hannah Wesolowski, Chief Advocacy Officer, National Alliance on Mental Illness 

Tia Dole, PhD, Chief 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline Officer, Vibrant Emotional Health

Kellan Baker, PhD, Executive Director, Whitman-Walker Institute

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Economist Amy Finkelstein has studied America’s patchwork of health insurance policies for more than 20 years. In a forthcoming book she concludes it’s time tear the whole system down.

This week, Dan talks with Amy about how she came to that conclusion and what a better system could look like. 

Guest:

Amy Finkelstein, PhD, Professor of Economics, MIT

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More than 1.5 million people have lost Medicaid coverage since April 1 as states start purging people from the rolls for the first time in three years.

This week, we check in on the “Medicaid unwinding” with a leading researcher, and get an up- close look at what it’s like to fall through the unwinding cracks.

Guests:

Adrianna McIntyre, PhD, MPP, MPH, Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Politics, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Farah Yousry, Managing Editor, Side Effects Public Media

Bobby Summers,Medicaid recipient

Kathryn Bamberger,Outreach & Enrollment Coordinator, Southeast Healthcare Services

Joel Potts,Executive Director, Ohio Job and Family Services Directors’ Association

Cindy Gauder,Caseworker, Greene County Department of Jobs and Family Services

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One year after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, 15 states have effectively banned abortion. Dozens of clinics in those states have shut their doors or moved to states where abortion is still legal.

This week, Politico’s Alice Miranda Ollstein takes us to an Alabama clinic that stayed put. She wanted to learn what happens when an abortion clinic can no longer provide abortions.

Guest:

Alice Miranda Ollstein, Health Care Reporter, Politico

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Medicare is in the midst of a pretty dramatic transformation. Before long, two out of every three enrollees will likely have a private Medicare Advantage plan.  

This week, we look at what’s gained and what’s lost when private insurers manage so much of the nation’s Medicare program — and where we go from here.

Guests:

Carol Berman, Medicare Advantage enrollee

Rick Gilfillan, MD, MBA, independent consultant, former hospital and insurance executive and former Medicare official

Michael McWilliams, MD, PhD, Professor of Health Care Policy, Harvard Medical School; Professor of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital

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Next week many of the country’s health economists will gather in St. Louis to share new research at the annual meeting of the American Society of Health Economists. This week health economist Sayeh Nikpay gives us a sneak peek at some of the most exciting papers coming out of this conference.

Guest:

Sayeh Nikpay, PhD, MPH, Tradeoffs Senior Research Advisor; Associate Professor, University of Minnesota School of Public Health

Links to more info on the studies mentioned in today's episode:

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There’s growing excitement that artificial intelligence can make health care better by speeding up care, improving diagnoses and easing the burden on a burned out workforce. But there are also concerns that these powerful new tools will perpetuate biases and inequities long baked into our health care system.

In Part 2 of our special series on racial bias in health care AI, we dig into what the Biden administration is doing to keep biased algorithms from getting to the bedside.

Guests:

Emily Sterrett, MD, Associate Professor of Pediatrics, Director of Improvement Science, Duke University School of Medicine Department of Pediatrics

Mark Sendak, MD, MPP, Population Health & Data Science Lead, Duke Institute for Health Innovation

Minerva Tantoco, Chief AI Officer, New York University McSilver Institute for Poverty, Policy and Research

Carmel Shachar, JD, MPH, Executive Director, Petrie-Flom Center for Health Law Policy, Biotechnology, and Bioethics at Harvard Law School

Kathryn Marchesini, JD, Chief Privacy Officer, Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology

Melanie Fontes Rainer, JD, Director, HHS Office for Civil Rights

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There’s growing excitement that artificial intelligence can make health care better by speeding up care, improving diagnoses and easing the burden on a burned out workforce. But there are also concerns that these powerful new tools will perpetuate biases and inequities long baked into our health care system.

In the first of two back-to-back episodes on racial bias in health care AI, we explore the challenge of diagnosing bias in AI and what one health system is trying to do about it.

Guests:

Emily Sterrett, MD, Associate Professor of Pediatrics, Director of Improvement Science, Duke University School of Medicine Department of Pediatrics

Mark Sendak, MD, MPP, Population Health & Data Science Lead, Duke Institute for Health Innovation

Ganga Moorthy, MD, Global Health Fellow, Duke Pediatric Infectious Disease Program

Paige Nong, PhD Candidate, University of Michigan School of Public Health

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Black Americans are at higher risk for many serious illnesses like dementia and kidney failure. But data show they are less likely to have their pain treated and less likely to access services like hospice and palliative care that can reduce suffering, especially at the end of life.

This week, we explore what stops seriously ill Black patients and their families from getting the care they want in life and in death.

Guests:

Deborah Brunson, PhD, Caregiver and Professor Emeritus, University of North Carolina Wilmington

Karen Bullock, PhD, LCSW, Professor, Boston College School of Social Work

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Every year, 100,000 Americans — mostly teens and young adults — experience their first psychotic episode. Research shows getting specialized, holistic treatment early can help, but most people don’t get that care. KQED’s April Dembosky shares her reporting on why early treatment for psychosis can be so hard to get.

Guest

April Dembosky, Health Correspondent, KQED News

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Medicare could soon pay hospitals much less for common outpatient services like x-rays and checkups.

This week, we explain an old policy gathering new steam in Washington, how it could save Medicare and patients billions of dollars a year, and why it has hospitals worried.

Guests: 

Loren Adler, MS, Fellow and Associate Director, USC-Brookings Schaeffer Initiative for Health Policy

Joe Antos, PhD, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute

Amol Navathe, MD, PhD, Associate Professor of Health Policy and Medicine, University of Pennsylvania

Hannah Neprash, PhD, Assistant Professor, University of Minnesota School of Public Health 

Ashley Thompson, MHA, Senior Vice President, American Hospital Association

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Just like the rest of us, when clinicians are short on time and overwhelmed by complex decisions, their brains look for corners to cut, numbers to round, patterns to repeat. This week, Dan talks with Harvard physician and economist Bapu Jena about the surprising impact these mental shortcuts can have on our health care.

Guest:

Bapu Jena, MD, PhD, Professor of Health Care Policy, Harvard Medical School; Physician, Massachusetts General Hospital

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A new class of drugs can help people lose up to one-fifth of their body weight and manage serious health conditions associated with obesity. But they’re also raising difficult questions. This week, we talk with STAT reporter Elaine Chen about how these breakthrough treatments are changing how we view and treat obesity. 

Guest:

Elaine Chen, Cardiovascular Disease Reporter, STAT

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About half of people on Medicare use hospice care before they die, but as the popular benefit turns 40 this year, it is struggling with waste, access and inequity issues. 

This week, we look at a federal experiment revamping Medicare's hospice policy, and how it could ultimately change the way millions of people die.

Guests:

Vince Mor, PhD, Professor of Health Services, Policy & Practice, Brown University

Bethany Snider, MD, Chief Medical Officer, Hosparus Health

David Stevenson, PhD, Professor of Health Policy, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine

Leslie Walker, Senior Producer, Tradeoffs

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The Affordable Care Act faces yet another in a long string of legal challenges. Last Thursday's ruling, by a conservative federal judge who has targeted the ACA before, jeopardizes a provision in the law that gives 150 million Americans access to free preventive care for conditions like HIV and cancer.

Guest:

Nicholas Bagley, JD, Professor of Law, University of Michigan

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We dig into three research papers to make sense of what will happen to 15 million people set to lose their Medicaid over the next year.

Guests:

Sayeh Nikpay, PhD, Tradeoffs Senior Research Advisor; Associate Professor of Health Policy and Management, University of Minnesota

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The pandemic pushed Medicare to start paying for “hospital-at-home” care for the first time, launching the largest test ever of home-based hospital care. This week, we look at what we’ve learned from the hospital-at-home explosion and questions about home-based care remain unanswered.

Guests: 

Bruce Leff, MD, Director, The Center for Transformative Geriatric Research, Johns Hopkins

David and Melanie Mercurio

Constantinos “Taki” Michaelidis, MD, Medical Director, Hospital at Home Program, UMass Memorial Health

Michelle Mahon, RN, Assistant Director of Nursing Practice, National Nurses United

Nathan Starr, DO, Medical Director for Home Services, Castell; Director of Telehospitalist Program, Intermountain Healthcare

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Even though more Americans than ever have health insurance, medical debt is a pervasive problem in the United States.

Guests: 

Noam Levey, Senior Correspondent, Kaiser Health News

Wesley Yin, PhD, Associate Professor of Economics, UCLA

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Less than a year after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, some states are rethinking their abortion bans.

This week, reporter Alice Miranda Ollstein introduces us to a Republican lawmaker pushing to add exceptions to the ban he helped pass, and we consider how well exceptions work - or don't - in practice. 

Guests:

Alice Miranda Ollstein, Health Care Reporter, Politico

State Sen. Richard Briggs, MD, Tennessee General Assembly

Yarnell Beatty, JD, Senior Vice President and General Counsel, Tennessee Medical Association

Will Brewer, JD, Director of Government Relations, Tennessee Right to Life

Katrina Kimport, PhD, Associate Professor, ANSIRH, University of California San Francisco

Katie May

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Meet the man behind our revamped research newsletter bringing you the latest health policy studies, original analysis, interviews with leading researchers and more every Tuesday.

Subscribe at tradeoffs.org/research

Guest:

Soleil Shah, Research Reporter, Tradeoffs

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Later this year the Supreme Court is set to decide whether to close a legal pathway that Medicaid recipients have used for more than 50 years. This week, we talk with Farah Yousry about the potential consequences of this decision.

Guests:

Farah Yousry, Health Equity Reporter, Side Effects Public Media

Susie Talevski, patient

Chris Schandevel, Senior Counsel, Alliance Defending Freedom

Jane Perkins, Litigation Director, National Health Law Program

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People leaving jail and prison are at extremely high risk of hospitalization and death. This week, why policymakers from deep blue California to solidly red Utah think bringing Medicaid behind bars could help.

Guests:

Lee Reed

Shira Shavit, MD, Professor of Family and Community Medicine, University of California San Francisco; Executive Director, Transitions Clinic Network

Jacey Cooper, Director, California Medicaid Program

Cindy Beane, MSW, LCSW, Commissioner, West Virginia Bureau of Medical Services

Amy Katzen, JD, MPP, Director of Policy and Strategy, Rhode Island Executive Office of Health and Human Services

Mike Levine, Medicaid Director, MassHealth

Dana Flannery, Former Senior Policy Advisor, Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System

Khalil Cumberbatch, MSW, Director of Strategic Partnerships, Council on Criminal Justice

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Medicare’s historic plan to slow prescription drug spending is taking shape. Last Thursday federal health officials began detailing how one of two major drug price reforms contained in the Inflation Reduction Act will work and who it will affect. 

This week, we talk with Medicare director Meena Seshamani about the “opportunity of a lifetime” to put these unprecedented policies into action.

Guest:

Meena Seshamani, MD, PhD, Director of the Center for Medicare and Deputy Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

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One year of health insurance premiums for a family of four now costs as much as a car. Nine states are trying to lower those costs in an aggressive way - by holding hospitals and insurance companies accountable for high spending. In this episode we look to see if any of those efforts have bent the cost curve.

Guests: 

Leemore Dafny, PhD, Harvard University economist

Michael Bailit, MBA President and Founder Bailit Health

David Seltz, Executive Director Massachusetts Health Policy Commission

Amy Rosenthal, MPH, MPA Executive Director Health Care For All

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Black Americans report higher levels of mistrust in the health care system than white Americans and suffer worse outcomes in everything from maternal mortality to life expectancy. What if improving health literacy and demystifying health information could be the part of the solution?

This week, one doctor’s crusade to help more people understand their own health care and why insurers are starting to buy in.

Guests:

Lisa Fitzpatrick, MD, MPH, MPA, Founder and CEO, Grapevine Health

Keith Maccannon, Director of Marketing, Outreach and Community Relations, AmeriHealth Caritas District of Columbia

Yvonne Smith, Grapevine Client

Karen Dale, RN, MSN, Market President, AmeriHealth Caritas District of Columbia

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Popping into the feed with a bit of breaking news on a story we've been reporting on for months: For the first time ever, some people incarcerated in jail or prison will have access to Medicaid. We'll have a full episode on this dramatic policy change in February.

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After 20 years, Humira – the best selling drug of all time – is finally facing direct competition. Typically, once generic drugs arrive on a market they dominate sales and deliver big savings. But Humira’s competitors, known as biosimilars, aren’t like most other generics.

This week, what makes this prescription drug showdown so unusual – and so important.

Guest:

Marta Wosińska, PhD, Visiting Fellow, Brookings Institution

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A congressional ban on removing anyone from Medicaid will expire early next year. What will happen to people who lose their coverage, and how are states preparing for this unprecedented undertaking?

Guests: 

Elizabeth Nash, Principle Policy Associate, State Issues

Cindy Mann, Partner, Manatt Health 

Rachel Cohrs, Washington Correspondent, STAT

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We've got a lot to share with you in 2023!

We're looking into what might happen to the marketplace as Humira, the best selling prescription drug in history, goes generic; and profile a woman pioneering a new strategy to help people better manage their own health, a strategy that has insurance companies whispering.

The FDA has approved another controversial Alzheimer’s drug, Medicare is gearing up to negotiate drug prices, millions of Americans could lose their Medicaid…and, of course, abortion. Tradeoffs is here to take you through the health care year ahead. We’ll explore the policies and programs, and we’ll introduce you to the people whose lives they shape.

New episodes start 19 January, 2023!

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There’s a severe shortage of people to care for older Americans in their homes and nursing facilities. And it’s only expected to get worse. Could providing long-term care workers with new career pathways be part of the solution?

Guests: 

Serena Maria, Manager of Care Teams, Homebridge

Mark Burns, Executive Director, Homebridge

Natasha Bryant, Senior Director of Workforce Research and Strategy, LeadingAge LTSS Center at UMass Boston 

Jonathan Gruber, PhD, Ford Professor of Economics, MIT

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California is in the early days of one of the most ambitious initiatives ever to address Medicaid patients’ social needs in hopes of improving their health. This week, we trace the origins, early results and challenges of “CalAIM.”

Guests:

Jacey Cooper, Director, California Medicaid Program

Bradley Gilbert, MD, MPP, Former Chief Medical Officer and CEO, Inland Empire Health Plan

Lacy McClellan

Dale Stout

Anthony Wright, Executive Director, Health Access California

Paula Lantz, PhD, James B. Hudak Professor of Health Policy, University of Michigan Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy

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The Inflation Reduction Act gives Medicare historic new powers to control prescription drug prices. We go inside the government’s race to implement these new powers — and the pharmaceutical industry’s efforts to blunt their impact.

Guests:

Alice Valder Curran, JD, Partner, Hogan Lovells

Sean Dickson, JD, MPH, Director of Health Policy, West Health Policy Center

Amber Jessup, PhD, Chief Economist, Office of Inspector General, Department of Health and Human Services

Mark Newsom, Founder and Principal, Health Evaluations

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Independent abortion funds have been flooded with donations since Roe v. Wade was overturned. How do these funds work and what role will they play in a post-Roe world?

Guests:

Brittany Mostiller, Leadership Development Coordinator, National Network of Abortion Funds

Gretchen Ely, PhD, MSW, Director of PhD Program, University of Tennessee College of Social Work

Kim Floren, Director, Justice Through Empowerment Network

Erin Smith, Executive Director, Kentucky Justice Health Network

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The leader of a landmark abortion study shares what research and her own family experience suggest will happen to people who are denied abortions in a post-Roe world.

Guests: 

Diana Foster Green, director of research at Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health

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Our annual look back at some of the best health care podcast episodes of the year with help from a few of our podcast host friends.

Guests:

Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, Policymaker in Residence, University of Michigan's Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy and host of America Dissected

Keris Myrick, Vice President of Partnerships, Inseparable and host of Unapologetically Black Unicorn

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More than $50 billion in opioid settlement dollars from drugmakers, distributors and pharmacies is starting to flow to state and local governments and they need to figure out how to spend it.

Guests: 

Dave Baker, Minnesota State Representative and chair of the state’s Opioid Epidemic Response Advisory Council 

Sara Whaley, Opioid Policy Researcher at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health @saraewhaley

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Black Americans are at higher risk for many serious illnesses like dementia and kidney failure. But data show they are less likely to have their pain treated and less likely to access services like hospice and palliative care that can reduce suffering, especially at the end of life.

This week, we explore what stops seriously ill Black patients and their families from getting the care they want in life and in death.

Guests:

Deborah Brunson, PhD, Caregiver and Professor Emeritus, University of North Carolina Wilmington

Karen Bullock, PhD, LCSW, Professor, Boston College School of Social Work

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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Even though more Americans than ever have health insurance, medical debt is a pervasive problem in the United States.

Guests: 

Noam Levey, Senior Correspondent, Kaiser Health News

Wesley Yin, PhD, Associate Professor of Economics, UCLA

Learn more and read a full transcript on our website.

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An overhaul of Medicare’s prescription drug benefit will lower costs for seniors while changing incentives for insurers and drugmakers.

Guests

Therese Humphrey Ball, Multiple sclerosis patient and advocate.

Juliette Cubanski, Deputy Director for Program on Medicare Policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation.

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There’s a severe shortage of people to care for older Americans in their homes and nursing facilities. And it’s only expected to get worse. Could providing long-term care workers with new career pathways be part of the solution?

Guests: 

Serena Maria, Manager of Care Teams, Homebridge

Mark Burns, Executive Director, Homebridge

Natasha Bryant, Senior Director of Workforce Research and Strategy, LeadingAge LTSS Center at UMass Boston 

Jonathan Gruber, PhD, Ford Professor of Economics, MIT

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Early in the pandemic, state officials unleashed a flood of emergency orders relaxing the rules that limit the care each health profession can provide. Now these temporary measures are expiring and health professionals from pharmacists to physician assistants are jockeying to shape the next wave of workforce reforms.

Guests: 

Susanna Storeng, DMSc, PA-C, Physician Assistant, High Plains Community Health Center

Bianca Frogner, PhD, Professor and Director of the Center for Health Workforce Studies, University of Washington

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Starting Oct. 6, providers must begin giving patients electronic access to more of their health care data than ever before. But the federal regulations forcing this change are fraught with implementation challenges and privacy risks.

This week we talk with Micky Tripathi, the federal official overseeing this push to democratize America’s health data, about its promise and perils.

Guest

Micky Tripathi, PhD, MPP, National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

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Initial screenings for breast, lung and cervical cancer are free, but expensive secondary tests can leave patients in screening purgatory.

Guests: 

Mark Fendrick,MD, Professor of Medicine and public health at the University of Michigan, Director of the Center for Value Based Insurance Design.

Gloria Coronado, PhD, epidemiologist and health disparities researcher, Kaiser Permanente Center for Health Research

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California is in the early days of one of the most ambitious initiatives ever to address Medicaid patients’ social needs in hopes of improving their health. This week, we trace the origins, early results and challenges of “CalAIM.”

Guests:

Jacey Cooper, Director, California Medicaid Program

Bradley Gilbert, MD, MPP, Former Chief Medical Officer and CEO, Inland Empire Health Plan

Lacy McClellan

Dale Stout

Anthony Wright, Executive Director, Health Access California

Paula Lantz, PhD, James B. Hudak Professor of Health Policy, University of Michigan Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy

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This week, we’re sharing the first episode of a new 10-part series from The Nocturnists podcast, called “Shame in Medicine: The Lost Forest.” 

What is shame? And how does it manifest in medical culture? The Nocturnists teams up with two shame experts to investigate these questions.

Read a full transcript of this episode on our website.

Learn more about this episode and the Shame in Medicine series at https://www.thenocturnists-shame.org/.

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The Inflation Reduction Act gives Medicare historic new powers to control prescription drug prices. We go inside the government’s race to implement these new powers — and the pharmaceutical industry’s efforts to blunt their impact.

Guests:

Alice Valder Curran, JD, Partner, Hogan Lovells

Sean Dickson, JD, MPH, Director of Health Policy, West Health Policy Center

Amber Jessup, PhD, Chief Economist, Office of Inspector General, Department of Health and Human Services

Mark Newsom, Founder and Principal, Health Evaluations

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The Biden administration is trying to close a gap in the Affordable Care Act that blocks 5 million people from getting affordable health care.

Guests: 

Liana Wolk, teacher

Owen Marshall, musician

Katie Keith, JD, MPH; Director, Health Policy and the Law Initiative at the O’Neill Institute at the Georgetown University Law Center.

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Why are a growing number of private insurance companies starting to invest in medical respite — a decades-old idea to care for homeless people who are too healthy to be in the hospital, but too sick to be on the streets?

Guests:

Henry Jones, former medical respite patient

Janelle Goetcheus, MD, Founder and Medical Director, Christ House

Julia Dobbins, MSW, Director of Medical Respite, National Health Care for the Homeless Council

Jack Kline, LICSW, LCSW-C, Former Executive Program Director, Hope Has A Home

Karyn Wills, MD, Chief Medical Officer, CareFirst Blue Cross Community Health Plan, DC

Learn more about medical respite and read a full transcript on our website.

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Letting private insurers offer Medicaid coverage was supposed to lower costs and improve care. We dig into the research on Medicaid managed care.

Guests:

Sayeh Nikpay, PhD, Tradeoffs Contributing Research Editor; Associate Professor of Health Policy and Management, University of Minnesota

Kathleen Adams, PhD, Professor of Health Policy and Management, Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University

Allan Baumgarten, JD, Independent Health Policy Analyst

Read more of the research on Medicaid managed care and find a full transcript on our website: https://tradeoffs.org/2021/11/04/medicaid-managed-care/

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The U.S. health care system is responsible for 8.5% of the country’s greenhouse gas emissions. We discuss how health care contributes to climate change, how some hospitals are trying to reduce their carbon footprint and what more needs to be done.

Guest:

Gary Cohen, co-founder and president of Health Care Without Harm

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The overdose crisis in the U.S. is as deadly as it’s ever been. In response, the Biden administration is embracing a controversial strategy known as harm reduction, which seeks to keep drug users safe even as they continue using. We explore how harm reduction has become more mainstream and what kind of impact we can expect it to have on the overdose crisis.

Guests:

Ricky Bluthenthal, PhD, Associate Dean for Social Justice; Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California

Keith Humphreys, PhD, Esther Ting Memorial Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Services, Stanford University

Beau Kilmer, PhD, Director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center

Kimberly Sue, MD, PhD, Assistant Professor of Medicine, Yale School of Medicine

Maia Szalavitz, Journalist and Author, Undoing Drugs: The Untold Story of Harm Reduction and the Future of Addiction

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into the issues explored in today's episode on our website.

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We explore the impacts of charging Medicaid enrollees premiums and how phasing out premiums may affect Montana's Medicaid expansion program.

Guests:

Katharine Bradley, Principal Researcher, Mathematica

Heather O'Loughlin, Co-Director, Montana Budget & Policy Center

Ed Buttrey, State Representative, Montana

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Independent abortion funds have been flooded with donations since Roe v. Wade was overturned. How do these funds work and what role will they play in a post-Roe world?

Guests:

Brittany Mostiller, Leadership Development Coordinator, National Network of Abortion Funds

Gretchen Ely, PhD, MSW, Director of PhD Program, University of Tennessee College of Social Work

Kim Floren, Director, Justice Through Empowerment Network

Erin Smith, Executive Director, Kentucky Justice Health Network

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To mark the launch date of 988, America's new mental health crisis line, we're sharing a segment from The Takeaway, a public radio show and podcast produced by WNYC Studios and PRX, featuring Tradeoffs host Dan Gorenstein talking about our reporting on 988.

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into our reporting here.

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In Part 3 of our special series on 988, we go on the ground to hear from individuals working in their communities to prepare for America’s new mental health crisis line to go live.

Guests: 

Natalie Krebs, Health reporter, Iowa Public Radio

Emily Blomme, Chief Executive Officer, Foundation 2 Crisis Services

Christine Herman, Managing editor, Side Effects Public Media

Mike Sunseri, Deputy Executive Director, Kentucky Office of Homeland Security

Carter Barrett, Reporter, Side Effects Public Media

Benjamin Kowalczyk, Living Room patient

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into our reporting here.

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In Part 2 of our special series on 988, we explore the scramble to staff the country’s new mental health crisis line and the workforce lessons 988 can learn from 911.

Learn more about how 988 came to be, what’s at stake and what it will take to succeed in the first episode in our series.

Guests: 

Rebecca Neusteter, PhD, Executive Director, Health Lab, University of Chicago

Rita Salazar, 911 call-taker, Valley Communications Center

Michelle Lilly, PhD, Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology, Northern Illinois University

Jennifer Battle, MSW, Director of Access, Harris Center for Mental Health and IDD Services

Lata Menon, MSW, CEO, First Choice Services

Courtney Colwell, 988 Program Manager, Volunteers of America Western Washington

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into all our coverage of 988 here.

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Starting July 16, 2022, anyone in the U.S. experiencing a mental health crisis will be able to dial 988 for help. We explore what it will take for this new nationwide hotline to meet the needs of millions of people struggling with suicide, addiction and mental illness.

Guests:

Andrea Harrison, Helpline Specialist, First Choice Services

Madhuri Jha, LCSW, MPH, Director, Kennedy-Satcher Center for Mental Health Equity, Morehouse School of Medicine

Ben Miller, PsyD, President, Well Being Trust

Hannah Wesolowski, MPA, Chief Advocacy Officer, National Alliance on Mental Illness

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into all our coverage of 988 here.

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Why has a little-known program designed to help hospitals and clinics that serve low-income people become one of the most controversial health policies in the country?

Guests: 

Sayeh Nikpay, PhD, Tradeoffs Contributing Research Editor; Associate Professor of Health Policy and Management, University of Minnesota

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The leader of a landmark abortion study shares what research and her own family experience suggest will happen to people who are denied abortions in a post-Roe world.

Guests: 

Diana Foster Green, director of research at Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health

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A personal and political fight to keep abortion legal in Michigan is in full swing. Michigan is one of more than 20 states poised to ban abortion if Roe v. Wade falls. Politico’s Alice Miranda Ollstein speaks with one woman who got an illegal abortion in Michigan and outlines the political levers state leaders have to to preserve abortion rights.

Guests: 

Alice Miranda Ollstein, health care reporter, POLITICO

Renee Chelian, Executive Director, Northland Family Planning Centers

Read a full transcript and dig deeper into the issues explored in today's episode on our website.

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