Chats with Kent C. Dodds

Kent talks with **Rhys Sullivan** about building **Executor** and thinking like a product engineer in the AI-agent era: how to design the right **primitives**, why agent experience is becoming its own product surface, and how to keep quality high when shipping has never been easier. They cover **MCP**, code mode, approvals, workspace scoping, docs and APIs as user experience, and why slowing down can still be the right move even when agents make speed feel free.

Kent talks with **Alex Hillman** of **Stacking the Bricks** about customer research, product fit, and the kind of product engineering that starts before implementation: understanding who you are serving, what they already believe, and how to make people feel understood instead of sold to. They cover audience selection, observational research, helping in public, aligning your work with customer and business priorities, and why AI makes human judgment, trust, and synthesis more important rather than less.

Kent talks with **Julius Marminge** about building **T3 Code** in the agent-orchestrator wave: why speed still matters, why fast shipping does **not** mean shipping every possible feature, and how product judgment becomes more important as parallel AI workflows make implementation cheap. They dig into **dogfooding**, core-product trade-offs, monetization pressure, customization vs defaults, and how to keep agent-built software maintainable over time.

Kent talks with **Jamon Holmgren** about product engineering from a long-running consultancy lens: how working with clients, stakeholders, and non-technical users sharpens your product sense, and why those skills matter even more as implementation gets cheaper with AI. They cover **React Native**, consulting, game design, stakeholder failures, feedback loops, and what software builders need to keep learning as the job shifts up the stack.

Kent talks with **Don Norman** about why the core work of **product engineering** has not changed: watch people work, treat so-called **user error** as a design problem, and fix root causes instead of blaming symptoms. Don walks through a remarkable arc from electrical engineering and cognitive psychology to **Three Mile Island**, **Xerox PARC**, **Apple**, and the first use of **user experience** in a job title. They talk about timing and failed products, cross-functional product teams, what **AI** changes for software builders, and why Don now cares most about designing for **humanity**, not only usability.

Kent talks with **Will King** about bringing an **industrial design** mindset into software: **human factors**, observing real users, and why good product engineering starts with caring enough to notice what frustrates people. They dig into **product debt**, support as a product superpower, pruning features without breaking trust, and how to use **AI agents** for exploration and critique instead of only faster implementation.

Kent talks with **Aaron D. Francis** about **product engineering**: why ticket-taking implementation is losing ground to agents, what a **vertical slice** from UI to database really means, and how Aaron’s desktop app **Solo** came from a painful problem—not a feature spec. They go deep on **scratch-your-own-itch** products, separating agents from dev stacks, **Jobs to Be Done**, why users bring you **solutions** instead of problems, and how empathy (and letting go of “technically correct”) changes what you ship.

Kent talks with **Dillon Mulroy**, Principal Engineer at **Cloudflare**, about **Agent Experience** and dogfooding AI platform work: how Cloudflare closes the loop between builders and customers, why **observability** and support are product superpowers, and how to stay disciplined when agents tempt you to ship huge diffs overnight. They go deep on watching users work, **firehose** social feedback, partnering with support, and why "make pain painful" aligns incentives for better software.

Kent talks with **Wayne Allan** (engineer, PM, and consultant) about **product engineering** in practice: why "building the thing right" only matters after you're building the **right thing**, how to shorten feedback loops without six-month research theater, and why falling in love with the **problem** beats falling in love with your **solution**. They cover scrappy validation, talking to sales and support, the **Kano model**, *Crossing the Chasm*, and what changes when shipping gets faster than learning.

Kent talks with **Dax Raad** about building [OpenCode](https://opencode.ai) in a crowded coding-agent market: why dev tools are still a consumer-style product, how fast shipping can make good products feel worse, and what "product skill" actually looks like when agents remove friction from implementation. They dig into onboarding, progressive disclosure, listening across many user requests for the real pattern, and why slowing down can be the right move—even when competitors ship faster.

Kent kicks off **Chats with Kent** season 7: why **product engineering** is the durable skill as AI takes on more implementation, and how this season’s guests will help you move closer to product thinking—empathy, problem clarity, and building the right thing before making it right.

Kent chats with Andre Landgraf about his journey as a web developer, his passion for community building, and his upcoming talk at Epic Web Conf on image optimization. Andre shares insights from organizing All Things Web, a Bay Area meetup that fosters discussions on modern web development. They also discuss his experiences at LinkedIn, his love for Remix, and the lessons learned from building a custom image optimization pipeline. Andre’s talk will dive into the trade-offs of using third-party services versus rolling your own solution, helping developers understand the fundamentals of image optimization and why it’s worth exploring.

Kent C. Dodds says goodbye for this season of the Chats with Kent podcast. It's all about the speakers at Epic Web Conf 2025.

In this episode, Jason Lengstorf flips the script and interviews Kent C. Dodds about his upcoming talk at Epic Web Conf. Kent shares insights into the decision-making framework behind the Epic Stack and why strong principles matter more than specific tech choices. He explores the importance of making decisions that scale with complexity, avoiding analysis paralysis, and embracing simplicity in software architecture. Beyond the talk, Kent and Jason discuss the value of in-person conferences, how they impact careers, and why human connection remains irreplaceable in an AI-driven world.

Jason Lengstorf joins Kent to talk about his journey in web development, from his early days in agencies to his work at IBM, Gatsby, and Netlify, and now his latest project, CodeTV. He shares insights into the Web Dev Challenge, a fast-paced, high-energy developer show where participants race against the clock to build projects from scratch. Jason will be bringing the Web Dev Challenge to Epic Web Conf, along with an open hackathon for attendees to participate in. He also shares his thoughts on the importance of networking, building authentic relationships, and taking strategic risks in your career. With years of experience in developer relations, open-source contributions, and building community-driven projects, Jason offers practical advice for developers at any stage of their journey.

Kent and Ryan Florence dive into the current state and future of Remix, the evolution of React Router, and the web platform’s growing role in modern web development. Ryan reflects on the changes in the ecosystem, the impact of AI, React Server Components, and the move towards standardized web APIs. He also shares insights on his shifting focus, the importance of in-person conferences, and how community-driven relationships have shaped his career. This conversation is packed with candid thoughts, deep technical insights, and a look at what’s next for web developers.

Kent sits down with Annie Sexton to explore the fascinating history of JavaScript. Annie, known for her engaging educational content, shares why understanding the origins of the language is essential to fully appreciating its present and future. She discusses how JavaScript evolved from a rushed project in the '90s into the dominant force shaping modern web development. Along the way, they touch on competing technologies, key moments in its adoption, and why preserving the history of software is just as important as innovating for the future. With her signature storytelling style, Annie promises an entertaining and insightful journey through JavaScript’s past.

Kent chats with Zackary Jackson, an infrastructure architect at ByteDance, about solving large-scale web infrastructure challenges. Zackary shares insights on building RSPack, a Rust-based bundler, and Module Federation, which enables seamless orchestration of distributed applications. They discuss how these technologies help companies like ByteDance scale efficiently, reducing build times, improving product velocity, and solving organizational friction. Zackary also teases exciting advancements in AI-driven development tools and shares why in-person connections at conferences are invaluable.

Kent chats with Aaron Francis about the power of resilience, adaptability, and taking calculated risks in your career. Aaron shares his journey from accounting to software development, navigating multiple career pivots, and ultimately betting on himself to start his own company. Drawing from his personal experience with job loss and reinvention, he offers practical advice on making yourself less fragile in an uncertain industry. This conversation is packed with insights on skill stacking, career resilience, and maintaining a work ethic that prioritizes both personal and professional fulfillment.

Kent sits down with Fran Zekan, an engineer with a diverse background spanning hardware, robotics, and full-stack web development. Fran shares insights from his experience working with both JavaScript and Rails and discusses how React Server Components (RSCs) are enabling fully encapsulated full-stack components—something that Rails developers have enjoyed for years. They dive into the evolution of full-stack components, their impact on web development, and why Fran is excited to share this topic at Epic Web Conf.

Kent sits down with Josh Cirre, a developer advocate, content creator, and former stage performer, to discuss his talk at Epic Web Conf: "Learning-Driven Development." Josh shares his unique approach to learning by building real-world projects, the importance of curiosity in the learning process, and how he transitioned from acting and comedy to the tech industry. They also chat about the value of in-person conferences, the crossover between theater and development, and why understanding how you learn is just as important as what you learn.

Kent chats with Kira Corbett, a developer educator with a background in robotics, simulation, and artificial intelligence. They discuss her journey from robotics to web development, her passion for human-computer interaction, and her upcoming talk at Epic WebConf: "Building an AI Assistant to Deliver Your Best Presentations." Kira teases an interactive session where attendees will see AI in action, learn how to optimize their workflows, and explore new ways to improve communication. She also shares insights on why conferences are invaluable for gaining fresh perspectives and making meaningful connections.

In this episode, Kent chats with Taylor Desseyn, VP of Global Development at Torque.dev and an experienced conference emcee, about the power of networking, career development, and making meaningful connections at events like Epic WebConf. Taylor shares insights from his years in the talent and tech space, his passion for helping developers land their dream jobs, and why in-person events are game-changers for career growth. They also discuss his role as an emcee and how he brings energy, humor, and connection to every conference he’s part of.

In this episode, Kent chats with Mark Techson, a developer advocate at Google working on Angular, about the evolving role of developers in the AI era. Mark previews his Epic WebConf talk, "Beyond Code Assist: Driving Impact as a Next-Gen Developer," where he challenges developers to rethink their workflows, leverage AI to do more, and embrace the future of software development. They also discuss the value of in-person conferences, professional growth, and how small efforts—like Mark’s creative talk proposal—can make a big impact.

In this episode, Shruti Kapoor, frontend engineer, educator, and accessibility advocate, joins Kent to discuss the nuances of building accessible web applications from the ground up. She shares insights from her work at Slack’s design systems team and previews her Epic WebConf talk, where she will demonstrate how to build an accessible real estate app, test it with screen readers, and fix common accessibility pitfalls. They also discuss the importance of fostering inclusive digital experiences and why in-person conferences like Epic WebConf are invaluable for professional growth and networking.

In this episode, Eva Ferreira, frontend expert and design systems advocate, joins Kent to explore why design systems fail and how to build them for long-term success. She previews her Epic WebConf talk, "Bulletproof Design Systems," where she breaks down the common pitfalls, best practices for adoption, and how to ensure a design system thrives in an engineering organization. They also discuss the importance of learning from failures, fostering collaboration, and the unique value of in-person conferences.

In this episode, Eve Porcello, seasoned educator and AI enthusiast, joins Kent to explore how AI can enhance presentation skills. Eve previews her Epic WebConf talk, "Building an AI Assistant to Deliver Your Best Presentations," where she and her co-speaker Kira Corbett dive into the intersection of AI, communication, and accessibility. They discuss the importance of effective presentation skills for developers, how AI can support and enhance communication, and why in-person interactions at conferences are irreplaceable.

In this episode, Jared Forsyth, a long-time Khan Academy engineer and functional programming enthusiast, joins Kent to explore the fascinating world of type inference. Jared previews his Epic WebConf talk, "Hindley and Milner Walk Into a Bar," where he dives into the mechanics of type inference algorithms and their impact on modern programming languages. They discuss the importance of understanding the fundamentals of language design, why type inference matters, and how getting comfortable with these concepts can make developers more effective.

In this episode, Madison Kanna, a full-stack developer, community builder, and returning Epic WebConf speaker, joins Kent to discuss the power of learning out loud. Madison shares her journey of building an authentic personal brand, the value of community, and how creating and sharing your work can lead to unique career opportunities. She also previews her talk, “Why You Should Learn Out Loud in 2025,” which emphasizes the importance of differentiating yourself in the age of AI through authenticity and personal branding.

Leah Thompson, a career switcher turned software engineer, joins Kent to discuss how live streaming on Twitch can be a powerful tool for networking and career growth. Leah shares her journey from high school math teacher to software developer, emphasizing how streaming helped her land both of her developer roles. They explore how Twitch can foster meaningful connections, build a personal brand, and combat isolation in remote work.

Dax Raad, creator of OpenAuth and core contributor to SST, joins Kent to discuss his approach to simplifying authentication with a self-owned, spec-compliant auth server. Dax explains the motivation behind OpenAuth, why AWS Cognito falls short, and how OpenAuth empowers developers to control their own authentication infrastructure while reducing complexity.

In this episode, Brooks Lybrand, Developer Relations Manager for Remix at Shopify, discusses the exciting new features of React 19 and how React Router bridges the gap for developers adopting the latest updates. Brooks explains how React 19's tighter integration with React Router simplifies development, enhances portability, and brings new paradigms to web development.

In this episode, Alex Anderson, creator of Thorium Nova and a Salt Lake City-based web developer, joins Kent to discuss pushing the boundaries of web technologies. Alex introduces his talk, "The Weird Web," which dives into underutilized APIs like the GamePad API, Web Serial API, and Web Audio API to create innovative experiences on the web. They also explore how these technologies can provide practical benefits for both games and user-friendly web applications.

In this episode, Devon Neill, a solopreneur and software developer from Cape Town, joins Kent to discuss the intersection of AI tools and efficient development workflows. Devon shares his journey into solopreneurship, the challenges of marketing and user communication, and how he's leveraging AI to optimize his development process. They also dive into Devon's talk for Epic WebConf, which explores combining AI tools with the Epic Stack to build applications quickly and efficiently.

In this episode, Joel Hooks, co-organizer of Epic WebConf and creator of platforms like Egghead.io, Epic React, and Epic Web, joins Kent to share insights about building custom AI tools. Joel discusses his talk, focusing on using AI-powered workflows to create personal and professional automation tools. They also explore the benefits of attending conferences, building meaningful human connections, and the unique opportunities Epic WebConf offers for collaboration and inspiration.

In this episode, Bree Hall, a frontend software engineer turned developer advocate at HubSpot, joins Kent to discuss the intersection of creativity and coding, the value of in-person connections at conferences, and her journey in tech. Bree shares how coding creatively, such as recreating real-world objects with CSS, sharpens her skills and inspires her professional work. They also dive into the importance of networking, building relationships, and the unique experiences offered by in-person events like Epic WebConf.

Kent C. Dodds introduces this season of the Chats with Kent podcast. It's all about the speakers at Epic Web Conf 2025

This episode marks the end of season five of Chats with Kent, recapping the season's highlights and looking forward to Epic Web Conf 2024.

This episode discusses the challenges and strategies of managing growth and innovation in the tech industry with Dan Farrelly.

In this podcast episode, Zeno Rocha and Kent discuss the dynamic world of web development, including the shift towards SDK-first strategies, the evolution of developer tools, the importance of high standards, and the value of developer conferences for fostering relationships and collaborations.

In this podcast episode, Simon Vrachliotis, an advocate for Tailwind CSS, discusses the impact of Tailwind CSS on web development and design, highlighting its role in facilitating collaboration, enhancing learning, and boosting efficiency.

A conversation between Kent and Madison Kanna, discussing the networking opportunities and value of attending conferences like Epic WebConf beyond just the informational content.

In this podcast episode, Tyler Benfield, a staff software engineer at Prisma, and Kent explore the critical role of databases in full-stack development, discussing optimization techniques and the trend of front-end developers becoming full-stack.

In this podcast episode, Sunil Pai, former member of the React.js core team, introduces PartyKit, his new project aimed at transforming real-time application development, showcasing its potential to create dynamic AI experiences and discussing its presentation at Epic WebConf.

In this podcast episode, UI expert Una Kravets discusses the importance of embracing modern web development standards, the role of community feedback, and the value of in-person interactions.

Glauber Costa, CEO of Turso, discusses the potential and practicality of SQLite database technology in a recent podcast, emphasizing its robustness, value in production, and importance in document evolution. He looks forward to learning more about real-world challenges at an upcoming web development conference and invites developers to explore Turso's offerings.

In this podcast episode, Kent C. Dodds and Michael Chan discuss the evolution of web development, the dynamic nature of design systems, and the excitement for the upcoming Epic WebConf.

In this podcast episode, Ryan Florence and Kent discuss the intersection of web development and user experience, covering topics such as the upcoming Epic WebConf, integrating React applications with new frameworks, the role of bundlers, and the importance of prioritizing reliability and intentional design in web applications.

In this podcast episode, Front-end Engineer Sandrina Pereira discusses the importance of web accessibility, her work on server-side validations, and the future of remote work in the tech industry, highlighting the upcoming Epic WebConf where she aims to demystify web accessibility with real-world examples and advocate for inclusive hiring practices in the tech field.

This podcast episode features an in-depth conversation with Mark Techson, a web developer from Google's Angular team, exploring the connections between web development and music, the role of an MC in event experiences, and Mark's personal journey in the tech industry.

In this podcast episode, developer Jacob Paris discusses his journey from game development to web development, highlighting the core similarities between different applications and the transformative role of Remix in streamlining UI creation for interacting with databases, offering a glimpse into his upcoming talk at Epic WebConf.

This episode flips the script and Shaundai Person interviews Kent C. Dodds to talk about his experience as a conference speaker, community builder, and educator, highlighting his contributions to web development and his vision for the future of the field.

In this podcast episode, Kent and Michelle discuss the importance of balancing a tech career with personal life for overall well-being and introduce the Developer Health Operating System initiative.

Barry McGee, a seasoned professional in the web industry, discusses the integration of AI in web development and the evolving landscape of remote work in a thought-provoking podcast with Kent. They explore topics such as web performance, AI-powered user experiences, and strategies for maintaining application performance at scale.

In this podcast episode, Scott Hanselman discusses the impact of AI on web development, emphasizing the importance of understanding technology's fundamentals, ethical usage of AI, and promoting empowerment and emotional health in the tech industry.

In this podcast episode, Saron Yitbarek, founder of Code Newbie, discusses empowering developers through enhanced learning resources, financial opportunities, and community building, highlighting the importance of newsletters and the "Big Cash Money" community.

Join Lina Mahrouch, a software engineer, discussing her journey from professional gaming to web development and her expertise in using Remix for full-stack applications, highlighting its benefits and the importance of networking at conferences like the upcoming Epic WebConf.

In this episode, Kent C. Dodds chats with Ben Ilegbodu about the concept of DivOps in the JavaScript ecosystem, its importance in optimizing apps and developer experiences, and what to expect from their upcoming engagement at Epic WebConf.

Mandy Hartman, a front-end developer at Jenzabar, discusses the importance of lifelong learning in web development and shares her personal experiences and insights on continuous skill refinement and knowledge-sharing.

Artem Zakharchenko, a software engineer specializing in API design and testing, discusses his journey transitioning to open-source contributions and highlights his upcoming workshop on automated testing at the Epic Web Conference.

In this podcast episode, web developer Alex Anderson discusses his side project Thorium, an open-source spaceship bridge simulator game designed for science education. The conversation also explores the principles of Local First architecture and the joy of side projects like baking.

Get to know Adam Argyle and the amazing things you can do with CSS custom properties.

Kent C. Dodds introduces this season of the Chats with Kent podcast. It's all about the speakers at Epic Web Conf 2024

Learn about how good habits can be deliberately formed to advance your skills!

Learn how to use projects to improve your skills and problem-solving!

Learn how one engineer pushed himself to be as productive as possible while also striving to be the best dad he could possibly be.

Learn more about CSS Modules, CSS in JS, and Vanilla Extract!

Learn how to build a community of people through your reputation!

Learn strategies on how to effectively teach yourself!

Learn why some people are able to have such high output

Learn how a positive mindset impacts your career!

Learn how to assess if your app is a11y friendly!

Learn how to improve your developer experience with automation and tooling!

Learn how to get over that first hurdle of getting involved in open-source!

Learn more about how the no-code movement benefits everybody!

Learn how to teach more effectively using the UbD method!

Learn about what it's like to migrate a JavaScript project into TypeScript!

Learn about the pros of having a more generalized set of skills!

Learn about the power of using the right abstractions

Learn strategies for becoming a better JavaScript developer!

Learn about what ECMAScript Modules bring to the table!

Learn more about Titus Wormer's open-source natural language processing ecosystem!

Learn how to grow a genuine following and land a career in tech

Combine the power of the old and new web with Remix!

Learn about the consequences of addictive design and biased algorithms

Learn how to build a developer portfolio that gets you hired

Learn how to create metaphors and create appropriate visualizations for them

Kent wants to get you pumped about Season 4 of Chats with Kent, introduce a new podcast you can participate in, and tell you all about his new website built with Remix!

Tanner Linsley talks about creating libraries and separating UI state and server state.

Serene Yew chats with Kent about why you should be a mentor, how you can be an excellent mentor, and how to find a mentee.

Saron Yitbarek chats with Kent about changing her career path, finances, punching your feelings in the face, and doing the hard thing.

Preethi Kasireddy chats with Kent about how she gave up her promising career in venture capital to become a developer.

Michael Chan talks about co-location, encapsulation, and CSS grid.

Michael Chan chats with Kent about how he broke into the tech industry after the 2008 recession.

Justin McMurdie chats with Kent about breaking your app into micro-services.

Talia Nassi chats with Kent about knowing the product as a tester, testing in production, and tools for testing.

Dr. Michaela Greiler chats with Kent about code reviews, non-violent communication, data-driven research, and starting a business

Courtney McCleve chats with Kent about developing relationships with people with disabilities and gaining an understanding of the hardships they face.

Amelia Wattenberger chats with Kent about enhancing communication with users through novel experiences.