Sunday Sanctuary with Petra Bagust

We've all heard the saying that comparison is the thief of joy. But have you ever thought about how many different areas of our lives it applies to? We can spend so much of our time worrying that we aren't keeping up or meeting some unspoken expectations. So how do we learn to run our own race?

In this episode, Petra Bagust talks to two wonderful guests (who are also good friends in real life), counsellor Charlotte Cummings and Baptist Pastor James Beck.

Sacred Texts

Featured Music

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Wouldn't it be nice to just have all the answers? We're sure you've had moments of wishing it was possible to skip all of the tension and uncertainty, replacing it with sure-footed confidence. Unfortunately, that is not the reality we live in. There is, however, much to gain and learn from embracing the mystery of life. You might even find some hope.

In this episode, Petra Bagust is joined by development coach Nikki Bray and Rev. Spanky Moore, who share their insights and experiences with learning to embrace mystery.

Sacred Texts

Featured Music

The article from The May Magazine that Petra mentions at the beginning of the episode can be found here.

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Isn't it so true that as we journey through this thing called life that we are often experiencing both highs and lows at the very same time, usually colliding into each other? Like going home for a holiday but then falling sick while there, or celebrating a child's wedding but also grieving the season change, or as shared by one of you - throwing up while hiking and feeling awful but also enjoying the incredible view.

In this episode, Petra Bagust speaks with Hana Seddon of The Salvation Army and author of Beholding, Strahan Coleman, about their experiences of navigating the duality of life's highs and lows.

Sacred Texts

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In this first episode of Sunday Sanctuary for the year, we ask the question - what on earth are we alive for? Is there such a thing as a 'calling'? If so, how do we find out what it is for ourselves?

Join Petra Bagust and she explores this with two friends of the show, Te Karere Scarborough (co-principal of the newly-opened Te Wānanga Ihorangi) and Frank Ritchie (broadcaster and media chaplain), hearing their personal experiences and thoughts on the subject of purpose.

And as per our Sunday Sanctuary rhythm, we kick off these conversations with 'sacred texts' - 

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T'was the day before Christmas, and all through the house
Many a creature was stirring, even the mouse
The jobs were all done in a hurry, but also with care
In the hope that some peace soon would be there
In the evening, with all now safely snug in their beds
As hopes for some joy and wonder danced in their heads.

On this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, we decided to keep it simple. Petra's guest this episode is one of our favourite reverends, Spanky Moore. He very graciously shares about what his year has been like, and how in the midst of it all he has still been able to find moments of wonder, joy, and peace. Whether you hear this episode on Christmas Eve or come to it in the new year, we hope that it might inspire some ways for you to find the wonder and joy present in your life as it is.

All of us on the Sunday Sanctuary team would like to say a massive kia ora to everyone who has listened this year! We put a lot of love into this show and we love to hear about what it means to you. If you'd like to tell us about what part Sunday Sanctuary has played in your life this last year and/or what parts of the show you like best, we'd be very thankful. Feel free to message us on Instagram, we're @sundaysanctuarynz. Your thoughts will come in really handy as we talk about what Sunday Sanctuary looks like in 2024.

Mā te wā,

Petra, Steph, Josh, and Sam

Awe

The moment of awe in this episode was inspired by this article from Sports History Weekly. There is also a documentary on the Lithuanian basketball team called The Other Dream Team, released in 2012. 

Sacred texts:

The book of John, chapter 1, verses 1 - 5

Rev. Spanky Moore referenced quotes from two rabbis:
1) "Never once in my life did I ask God for success or wisdom or power or fame. I asked for wonder, and he gave it to me." - Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, from his book I Asked for Wonder: A Spiritual Anthology

2) "Some years back I hit a skid in my personal life. Though I knew objectively that I had much to be grateful for, it was hard to acknowledge a sense of gratitude. It was difficult to notice the positive that was out there beyond the slog of getting through every day. But now and then, I’d feel the impulse to take out my phone and capture a slice of beauty. These fleeting glimpses of splendor broke through my horizon of pain and lifted me up…." - Rabbi Hara Person, from a meditation written for The Center for Action and Contemplation

One final thing. If you're needing a playlist of Christmas music, we've put together A Sunday Sanctuary Christmas on Spotify. Enjoy!

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We all have something in our lives that seems to be taking it's sweet time to arrive or happen. What are you waiting for? You could be waiting for any number of things, but on this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Petra explores what is to be found within the time of "not yet."

Petra is joined first by Matt Renata, a youth worker and tauira (student) of indigenous theology. Matt shares part of his and his wife Rachel's six year journey towards pregnancy and some of the lessons he has learnt along the way.

Then, Grace McArthur joins Petra live in studio! Long-time listeners might remember that the last time this happened was back when Sunday Sanctuary was on Today FM. The wait was worthwhile, though, as Grace comes armed with some wisdom from Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart about how to wait well.

Strahan Coleman is Petra's final guest on this episode. As someone who has lived with chronic health issues for the last 10 years, Strahan knows a thing or two about waiting. He also makes some interesting observations about the role of artists in times when it feels like the world is falling apart.

Thank you for hanging with us during our short break. We appreciate you listening and we hope this episode was worth the wait!

Awe

The Awe piece in this episode comes from TikTok user DogDogCatCatNoodle.

Sacred texts

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Kia ora whanau! We're just jumping in here with a short update about Sunday Sanctuary. Don't worry! The show isn't stopping, we're just taking a week off.

As it happens, the combination of a large workload and sickness can be really punishing, especially for a small team such as ours. As a result, we've decided not to put out a normal episode this Sunday. And no, the irony is not lost on us that we are taking the week off just after releasing an episode on burnout.....

We didn't want to leave you without anything to reflect on however. We were recently introduced to this great poem by Thomas Merton and a reflection on that poem by a US based pastor named James Lawrence. Listen through the short update to where Petra reads the poem and the reflection. You can read James' original blog post here.

Thanks for sticking with us and we will be back in a few weeks!

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How much is left in your 'tank'? Do you feel as though you are beginning to move towards being overwhelmed or have you in fact burnt out? No matter how you are feeling, welcome. Yes, that includes you, the person who somehow still feels full of beans! What is your secret?

In this episode, Petra speaks with singer/songwriter Lydia Cole. Lydia shares the story of her journey from making a living as a musician in Berlin toher ongoing journey of recovering from burnout back home, here in Tāmaki Makaurau. 

We then hear from Brad Carr, who used to lead Gracecity Church in Auckland before burning out four years ago. He kindly shares many of the lessons learnt and experiences had since. 

Producer Sam flew home to Dunedin for this episode and took the opportunity to interview his dad. He provides an interesting perspective as someone who is knowingly teetering on the edge of burnout while working within a system well known for being high pressure.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The Awe piece in this episode comes Episode 1 of the Netflix series called Connected, hosted by Latif Nasser. 

Sacred texts

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How's your day been today? No really, has it gone well or has today just not been your day? If today has just not been going the way you'd like, this episode is for you. Nacho Day (try saying it like not your day) is all about those frustrating and disheartening days where the world might not be ending, but that leave you in a bad mood.

In this episode, Petra visits Sophie Gray of Destitute Gourmet and the two of them make nachos together in Sophie's kitchen. The recipe they follow is one that Sophie put together specifically for families who receive food from the Good Works Trust Food Bank, where Sophie is the General Manager.

The Sunday Sanctuary team loves it when Hollywood releases a movie which perfectly fits the topic of an upcoming episode. To kick off her conversation with Rev Frank Ritchie, Petra plays him a section of Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day. Frank lets Petra in on what he does for himself on bad days and how prayer plays a part in how he shows himself some grace.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The moment of awe in this episode comes from Professor Boaz Keysar's work on The Foreign-Language Effect. Watch a short video about it here or read an article about it here

Sacred texts

Sophie Gray's nachos recipe - here is an earlier version of it
Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day - Watch the clip here.

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Do you see yourself as a creative person? Sure, not everyone can be a musician or a sculptor but I wonder if your answer would change if you considered all of the things you do that aren't typically thought of as 'art'. No matter how we choose to express ourselves creatively, it says something about who we are. In this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, you'll meet three people who's creative practices intersect with their spirituality in different ways.

First, Petra talks to musician Holly Arrowsmith. She very generously shares for the first time about how her sense of spirituality and her faith has changed over the last 10 years, and what that means for her music.

Producer Sam is out on assignment once again, this time to visit icon writer Michael Pervan. At the Studio of St John the Baptist on Auckland's North Shore, discover how rabbit skin glue and plaster of Paris combine to help make the distinctive seen in churches worldwide.

Lastly Petra talks with internationally award winning graffiti and street artist (or "imagineer", Janine Williams. Alongside husband Charles, she has an incredible story of following her passion from tagging fences as a teen to being paid to create works visible all over Tāmaki Makaurau.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The moment of awe in this episode is part of 'Speaking Whale', an episode of Erica Heilman's podcast Rumble Strip. Huge thanks to Erica for letting us share it! Listen to the full interview here.

Sacred texts

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The drive for perfection can be such a blessing and a curse, can't it? What seems like trying for the best can actually end up destroying our enjoyment of the process, not to mention how it feels when our self imposed standards aren't met! And as we discover, the longing for perfection typically comes from a much deeper place...

In this episode of Sunday Sanctuary,Grace McArthur sets the scene with a look at Brené Brown's definition of perfectionism from her book, Atlas of the Heart. Grace also unpacks how she fought her want for perfection in her art.

Petra is joined once again by counsellor Shirley Pastiroff. With a little help from Ted Lasso, they talk through where perfectionistic tendencies come from and what the first step is to addressing the impact it can have. 

Nic Manders, music producer to the stars (Six60, TEEKS, Dave Dobbyn and more) joins Petra to round out the episode by sharing his personal journey with perfectionism. 

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The awe piece in this episode comes from City of the Future: Singapore by National Geographic. Watch it here.

Sacred texts

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It's officially Spring! The designated season of daffodils, lambs, and new beginnings...or is it? Join Petra as she explores that squishy period of time where one part of life ends and another starts. As it turns out, new beginnings can happen at any time!

Petra is joined by Mustafa Derbashi MNZM, who came to Aotearoa as a refugee and with a calling in his heart to help others, just as soon as he learnt English... Salvation Army Captain Hana Seddon talks with Petra about backing herself during times of transition, no matter what others might think. Grace McArthur also stops by to bring some more wisdom from Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart, this time looking at the emotion of excitement.

Producer Josh provides this episode's moment of awe and talks to Petra about his brand new baby! Lastly, producer Sam pays a visit to his friend Millie at the farm she works on. Come for the cute animals noises and stay for her reflections on relocating from Taihape to Tāmaki Makaurau/Auckland.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The awe piece in this episode came from Professor Edward Tronick's 'Still Face' experiment at the University of Massachusetts. Watch the full video here

Sacred Text

Inside Out (Disney, 2015). Watch the full scene

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Times of grieving can be so difficult to face and unpredictable in how they present. A question that's also been on our minds for a while is 'have you ever felt the expectation to finish grieving once the funeral is over?'

On this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, we look into the rituals and rites of passage that can be held to mark the passing of a loved one. What we hope is that you will see how much freedom there is to decide what you do to remember those you have lost, all in your own time.

Join Petra as she talks to her friend (and boss) Phil Guyan, who beautifully shares all the ways in which he remembered, and continues to remember his dad, Neil. Producer Sam drops past Auckland's Threshold Choir, the Cadence Singers, to learn about their work. Lastly, Petra speaks with former hospital chaplain Heike Pomare, from Ōtepoti/Dunedin, about the role of being a 'grief holder'.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

Awe

The awe piece in this episode was written by Sam who took inspiration from the video by Listening In, titled The Music that links Dumbledore's death to Bach and Radiohead. Watch it here.

Sacred texts

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What's your attitude towards gratitude? For some it flows easily, which for those of us who find gratitude more difficult to summon can be a bit frustrating! No matter how you feel about gratitude, join Petra as she dives into the role it can play in our lives and the surprising things it can bring forth.

Petra is joined firstly by her longtime friend, mental health advocate, speaker, and musician, Julia Grace, to hear about the (very passive aggressive) journey Julia went on with her gratitude journal. Grace McArthur returns to dive back into Brené Brown's 'Atlas of the Heart'. Finally, spoken word poet and youth worker, Dietrich Soakai, dials in from Ōtautahi Christchurch to share his journey of coming to embrace gratitude during a time of heartbreak.

If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you left us a 5 star rating. Feel free to write a short review if you feel so inclined! As always though, the most helpful thing you can do is spread the word among friends and whānau! If you'd like to join us on Instagram, our handle is @sundaysanctuarynz.

This week's awe piece came from the article 'Scientists Found Ripples in Space and Time. And You Have to Buy Groceries.' It was published in The Atlantic on June 29th and written by Adam Frank. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/06/universe-gravitational-waves-nanograv-discovery/674570/

Sacred texts:

Clip from 'Inside Amy Schumer' - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=484520277113949

Quote by Maya Angelou was found on goodreads - https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/132587-the-ship-of-my-life-may-or-may-not-be

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Have you ever looked past your reflection in the mirror and been able to see your body as truly part of who you are? Do you consider your physical body to be spiritual? Join Petra Bagust on this episode as she untangles the disconnect between our mind, body, and spirit. Petra talks to Sam Bloore about the ancient Greek philosophy that lies at the root of this problem. Rev. Jay Ruka (author of Huia Come Home) dials in to talk about the Māori concept of Te Whare Tapa Wha. Finally, Petra pays a visit to journalist, editor, and disability advocate Olivia Shivas to learn about how she relates to her body as a wheelchair user.

The TED Talk used for the moment of Awe can be found here: https://www.ted.com/talks/heather_barnett_what_humans_can_learn_from_semi_intelligent_slime

Sacred texts:

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Join us for a contemplative exploration as we delve into the spiritual practice of silence. Paradoxical, isn't it? Yet, we hope that by the end of this episode, you'll find yourself better prepared to try and perhaps even introduce the art of quieting your mind to your everyday life.

In this episode, Petra talks to spiritual director Rev Rachel Kitchens, about the difficulty of seeking moments of silence amidst the bustling world we live in.

Later on, Petra welcomes back friend of the show, Rev Spanky Moore, to kōrero about the challenges and rewards that come from stilling your mind and body. Don't miss Spanky's legendary story about a pesky family of birds he encountered on a silent retreat.

The moment of awe in this episode was adapted from AsapSCIENCE's video The Loudest vs Quietest Room In The World - Watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqt60LqaEBU&ab_channel=AsapSCIENCE

First sacred text - Silence is Golden by The Beths. Here's the music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ZxW1r1Zc8&ab_channel=TheBeths

Second sacred text - The Summer Dayby Mary Oliver. Listen to the poem here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBPHUE961zI&ab_channel=The92ndStreetY%2CNewYork

Third sacred text - quote by Thomas Merton from his book Come to the Mountain: New Ways and Living Traditions in the Monastic Life

Fourth sacred text - quote by Richard Rohr from his book Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer

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Brave conversations are not easy to have! They so often seem like they will require more from us than we can give. How can we approach these discussions well? What does a positive outcome look like? 

In this episode, Petra Bagust digs into the world of brave conversations and healthy confrontation. She’s joined by counsellor and author of the book ‘Mindful Parenting’, Shirley Pastiroff, who offers tools to use when approaching these interactions. Next, Rev. Frank Ritchie offers some insight into how brave conversations intersect with his faith and what he has found as a chaplain to those facing similar situations of their own. 

The ‘sacred texts’ used in this episode are the song Found Out by This is the Kit and a portion of Brooklyn Nine-Nine, season four, episode 19.

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TW: Suicidal ideation

In this episode, Petra Bagust explores loneliness and our need to belong. What is our loneliness telling us?

She is joined by community leader David Letele (aka Brown Buttanbean), who opens up about the lowest point in his life, and CEO of Wilberforce Foundation Chris Clarke, who expands on the idea that loneliness is an emotion driving us to action.

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Can you think of a time when you experienced kindness from a stranger? Perhaps a tank of petrol paid for when your credit card didn't work, or an offer to help carry your stroller up a flight of stairs?

What is it about experiencing kindness from someone outside of our circles which is so compelling? And what is this word 'compassion' all about?

In this story-filled episode, Petra Bagust is joined by Rev Petra Zaleski and Matt Renata for a deep dive into the topic, and we revisit Atlas of the Heart with Grace McArthur for an exploration of compassion.

Join the Sunday Sanctuary community on Instagram at @sundaysanctuarynz.

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When has food felt like love to you? And what food feels like love for you? Is it your favourite soup ready on the stove upon your return to your childhood home? A carrot cake couriered to you for your birthday? 

Food is so much more than physical sustenance. It is a bridge between cultures, a holder of memories and an expression of love for those we care about.

In this episode, Petra speaks with mate Pio Terei and Destitute Gourmet's Sophie Gray about their thoughts on this passion subject of theirs, and we hear plenty of delicious stories along the way. 

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Mother's Day is messy. Whether you're a mother, someone waiting to become a mother, a daughter missing her mother, and more - let's file this one under the 'both, and' days, shall we? A day of delight for some and a day of pain for others - sometimes it's both for the very same person. And by that same vein, motherhood is messy.

In this episode, Petra speaks with friends Jax Donaldson and Te Waka McLeod about their journeys as daughters and mothers, and we hear from a few others, including you, our Sunday Sanctuary community, about the feelings Mother's Day brings up.

Ngā mihi nui, e hoa mā.

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What is something mundane that brings you joy? Is it clean sheets? A cup of hot tea in your favourite mug? Hearing the rain on your rooftop? Passing that same familiar landmark everyday?

Most of our lives is lived in these ordinary, mundane moments. How do we recognise them for the wonder they are? 

Join Petra Bagust as she speaks with Rev Frank Ritchie about Ordinary Time, and is also joined by poet Strahan Coleman, who discusses the poem we sent him that made him sob and shares about the role the mundane plays in his continuing journey through health challenges.

Join the Sunday Sanctuary community at @sundaysanctuarynz on Instagram. We'd love to hear from you.

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Before the loss of our radio station, we had this very special Easter Sunday show planned and so we decided to make it as a podcast episode anyway.

This Sunday, we talk about when things don't go as planned (like when your radio station shuts down!) - when plot twists show up and disrupt the way we thought life would turn out.

Friend and CEO of Parenting Place Dave Atkinson, shares his whānau's unexpected journey with infertility, and Rev Spanky Moore returns to the show, with poignant reflections on his late father.

Here is the link to the full text of the benediction by Nadia Bolz-Weber - https://thecorners.substack.com/p/salty-d99

We are continuing to find our way forward and as we solidify what Sunday Sanctuary will look like, we will keep you in the loop. Thank you for being on this journey with us.

Follow along on Instagram at @sundaysanctuarynz for updates.

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"It sucks but I don't have it as bad as..."

We talked about comparative suffering this week - "feeling the need to see our own suffering in light of other people's pain. With this perspective, we start to rank our suffering and use it to deny or give ourselves permission to feel." 

Pio Terei joined us to discuss the etymology of the word 'aroha', and Petra spoke with registered psychologist Nettie Cullen, journalist and broadcaster Indira Stewart, and non-profit CEO Chris Clarke.

And thank you to everyone who sent their stories in about what felt hard this week. Arohanui to you all as you navigate those tough situations. 

Here are links to our two sacred texts this week - 

Sacred Text 01: What Else? by Molly Prentiss from The Isolation Journals -  https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/p/the-value-of-venting

Sacred Text 02: Everybody Has Something - a conversation between Kate Bowler and Mary Laura Philpott and Kate's podcast Everything Happens - https://open.spotify.com/episode/5rEddnaLdDZF2uchr3RdQf?si=28Ekbv1vQWyspc7UuLKTbQ 

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What is your go-to way to rest? And what do you feel after you've done? Refreshed? A little guilty?

This week we talked about rest - and how in this fast-paced life and its constant invitations to do more and be more, making room in our lives to breathe and refresh is just the rebellion we need. 

Petra Bagust unpacks this with guests Todd Muller, who gives a glimpse into his experience of burnout, producer Grace, who gave sabbath a go, poet Strahan Coleman, theologian Sam Bloore, and enneagram coach Rachel King.

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Todd Muller joined Petra to chat about the pressure that comes with politics.

Their conversation touched on the scale of the job of National leader and the challenges he faced. 

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Fa'anānā Efeso Collins joined Petra to chat about freedom.

Their conversation touched on what freedom looks like for young people that have been involved with ram raids. 

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When was the last time you felt free? Was it swimming in the ocean with the waves lapping at you? Was it at the recent Harry Styles concert singing alongside everyone while waving torch lights? (As one listener said!)

This week we explore the paradox of freedom with guests, including politician Efeso Collins, poet Glenn Colquhoun, community director Rev Te Karere Scarborough and Salvation Army officer Hana Seddon.

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We all form friendships that cross various divides - age, ethnicity, gender, politics... whatever!

This week we explore the rich ways these friendships enhance our lives and our community.

Our guests this week include broadcaster Pio Terei, Rev Sarah Lea West, and Rev Neihana Reihana.

We also got MPs Chlöe Swarbrick & Brooke van Velden to join us for a new segment called Common Ground.

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In our Common Ground segment, we get together two people who seem to be poles apart, and see what they might have in common.

The Act Party's Brooke van Velden and The Green Party's Chlöe Swarbrick joined Petra to chat about where they store their cheese grater, whether they drink their water sparkling or still, and what people regularly get wrong about them.

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Too often, as humans, we're expected to know things. Certainty is celebrated. Confidence is sexy, right?

Well, today more than simply acknowledging our doubt, let's see if we can celebrate it.

Our guests this week include Rev Spanky Moore, Te Waka McLeod & Dr Michael Frost.

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In light of the week we’ve had as a country, this week’s theme is hā ki roto, hā ki waho - breathe in, breathe out.

Sometimes the smallest actions can be very significant, powerful and important.

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